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Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:26pm On Jun 09, 2022 |
OLAADEGBU: Clause #2 of John 1:1 From the previous section, we have shown that Christ–the Word–always existed. In other words, there was never a time when Christ was not in existence. This section draws our attention to the second part of the verse of John 1:1. καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν Once again, if we were to transliterate this Greek clause into English letters, the following would be the outcome: kai ho logos ēn pros ton theon We already know how to translate a few of these words. For example, “ho logos” means “the Word.” The verb “ēn” means “was.” But what do the other words mean? "Kai" is a conjunction that means "and." Therefore, "Kai ho logos ēn" can be translated as, "and the word was . . . " But what about "pros ton theon?" “Pros” is another preposition that means "with." Moreover, "ton theon" means "the God." We can therefore translate this whole clause as "and the word was with God." John MacArthur sums up this clause rather well, " . . . John took his argument one step further. In His eternal preexistence the Word was with God. The English translation does not bring out the full richness of the Greek expression (pros ton theon). That phrase means far more than merely that the Word existed with God."8 What, then, does this phrase mean? One commentator has said that the preposition "pros" is hard to translate.9 "It is equivalent to 'was in relation with God,' 'stood over against,’ not in space or time, but eternally and constitutionally."10 To make this clearer, it would do us well to turn back to John MacArthur, who, in his own commentary, quotes W. Robert Cook as saying, " . . . it ‘[gives] the picture of two personal beings facing one another and engaging in intelligent discourse."'11 We can see, then, that not only was Christ pre-existent but also he was in loving fellowship with the Father. "Pros ton theon" actually shows the eternal distinction between the Father and the Son. This text proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the Father is not the Son nor is the Son the Father. They are, as it were, eternally distinct. So far, then, we have translated the first two clauses of John 1:1. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God . . . " |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by johnw47: 12:31am On Jun 10, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: job 15:12 Why doth thine heart carry thee away? and what do thy eyes wink at lost false jw mad max of course just like the devil, habitual lying is your natural way of speaking: Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies. fearfully paranoid and not all there, mad max: rev 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone; which is the second death. |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by johnw47: 1:14am On Jun 10, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: job 15:12 Why doth thine heart carry thee away? and what do thy eyes wink at Mat 7:16 You shall know them by their fruits. They do not gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles, do they? Mat 7:17 In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a corrupt tree produces evil fruit. Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot produce evil fruit, nor can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. exactly lost false jw mad max and it's your works that you are known by verse 16 we know you by your fruits of lying and of paranoia etc.etc. verse 17&18 we see you continually producing these evil fruits over and over again of course you false jw cannot see it: I Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by johnw47: 2:24am On Jun 10, 2022 |
false jw's believe they are GOD's people. they certainly don't know GOD's Character the one whose character is habitually lying that they immitate, is the devil: Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies. ^^ see lost false jw mad max how you are exactly like him |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by Janosky: 10:47am On Jul 09, 2022 |
Emusan: Emusan,Study Deuteronomy 10:17 (ASV), (is Jehovah the God of gods? Yes. 1 Corinthians 8:4-5, Psalms 82:1,6, (gods exist in heaven & earth?). Yes. Is "gods" at Deuteronomy 10:17,1 Corinthians 8:4-5, Psalms 82:1,6 idols? No !! Correct rendition of John 10:33-36 & John 1:1, Is Jesus a god? Yes. Acts 3:13 & Deuteronomy 10:17 "Jehovah is the God of gods, His Sons are gods. Is Jesus His Son,a god? Yes. Emusan, further read the screenshots. The Bible truth is bitter to Christendom sheeples. Or Emusan embrace your delusion jejely.
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Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by sagenaija: 12:22pm On Jul 09, 2022 |
Janosky:Janosky, Who is THE ALMIGHTY according to Rev. 1: 8? Notice here, it's not an Almighty but THE Almighty. Just a simple answer, please. 2 Likes |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by Janosky: 12:25pm On Jul 10, 2022 |
sagenaija:Revelation 1:1,5,8 Jehovah God his Father in the spiritual realm. Revelation 1:8 Aramaic Bible (also Exodus 6:3 & Acts 3:13). "I am The Alap and The Tau, says THE LORD JEHOVAH God, he who is and has been and is coming, The Almighty." Revelation 1:8 Aramaic Bible (also Exodus 6:3 & Acts 3:13, when these 3 verses where given was Jesus on Earth then ? No !). What of Matthew 10:32? Jesus on Earth. Revelation 3:5, Jesus in heaven.
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Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by Emusan(m): 12:38pm On Jul 10, 2022 |
Janosky: I asked just simple question, you couldn't address it yet you can't see through that your delusion Anyway, here is my simple question again! what does the term "a god" mean? |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by MaxInDHouse(m): 12:43pm On Jul 10, 2022 |
sagenaija: Who was Jesus crying to when begging on his knees? {Mark 14:36} note that he clearly said both the father and him has different wills but he (the son) is ready to submit to his father's will! Apostle Paul declared that Jesus begged the one who can SAVE him! Hebrews 5:7 So the Almighty is the SAVIOUR who saved Jesus! 1 Like |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by sagenaija: 3:50pm On Jul 14, 2022 |
Janosky: Who is the Alpha and the Omega in Revelation 22:13-16? 2 Likes |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by sagenaija: 3:53pm On Jul 14, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: Using your doctrinal position, if Archangel Michael were to cry to Jehovah would that mean he was no longer a god? |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by Janosky: 7:56pm On Jul 14, 2022 |
sagenaija:1 Corinthians 8:4-5 & Psalms 82:1,6, Angel Michael (Jesus) is a god. Jesus is a son of God,All sons of God are gods. Deuteronomy 10:17, Jehovah their Father is the God of gods,His sons (in heaven & earth). Shalom. |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by Janosky: 8:02pm On Jul 14, 2022 |
sagenaija: Does Revelation 22:13 prove that Jesus is “the Alpha and the Omega”? No. The speaker at Revelation 22:13 is not specifically identified, and there are various speakers in Revelation chapter 22:1-12. Thus, “the Alpha and the Omega” at Revelation 22:13 can be identified as the same Person given this title elsewhere in Revelation 1:8—Jehovah God Almighty. Jehovah is NOT morning Star in verses 13-16. Shalom. |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by Janosky: 8:13pm On Jul 14, 2022 |
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Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by Janosky: 8:16pm On Jul 14, 2022 |
Emusan:I have answered your question on 9th July,2022 @ 10:47. But for emphasis, a god means "like godlike, resembling God,of God, divine" Deuteronomy 10:17 & John 20:17, Jehovah is the Father/God of gods His sons.
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Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by Emusan(m): 8:21pm On Jul 14, 2022 |
Janosky: That's nice! But Jehovah Is also A GOD? Jesus is The Lord of Lords King of Kings God of gods |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by sagenaija: 8:31pm On Jul 14, 2022 |
Janosky: If you honestly think this is the answer to the question I asked then you really need help. 2 Likes |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by sagenaija: 8:47pm On Jul 14, 2022 |
Janosky: When you run from answering questions directly it should occur to you somewhere in your head that you are being cunning. When it is clear from that portion that the speaker identified himself you had to run to "elsewhere" in the book of Revelation to explain it because you want to impose your dogma on the portion of Scripture. You run to concordance, etc to try and convince others yet basic means of scriptural interpretation has escaped you here. Why are you guys so deliberately evasive and disingenuous? Vincit omnia veritas. 2 Likes |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by Emusan(m): 9:25pm On Jul 14, 2022 |
Janosky: So Jesus is not The Alpha and the Omega Nothing wey this followers of the lying 8 old men in Warwick won't say just because the seed of their father the Devil is in them. 1 Like |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by Janosky: 12:13am On Jul 15, 2022 |
Emusan:Did you see Jesus speaking at Revelation 22:13-15? Abeg, carry your delusion go offline. Nonsense ! |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by Janosky: 12:16am On Jul 15, 2022 |
sagenaija:Oga, I challenge you to provide the proof Jesus Christ spoke at Revelation 22:13-15. Period ! Must you always embrace your delusion & throw tantrums on this thread? Haba !!!! |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by Janosky: 12:25am On Jul 15, 2022 |
sagenaija:Oga, you are entitled to your opinion. In your Bible, Deuteronomy 10:17, is Jehovah the God of gods? 1 Corinthians 8:4-5,in your Bible do gods exist in heaven? Psalms 82:1,6, are angels gods? Oga, you don't want to hear that in Psalm 82:1,6 angels are gods. Angel is a god. Is archangel Michael dwelling in your apartment? Oga, remove Deuteronomy 10:17 & Psalm 82:1,6 from your Bible & have peace. |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by Janosky: 12:31am On Jul 15, 2022 |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by johnw47: 12:36am On Jul 15, 2022 |
Janosky: lost fraud jw janosky you false jw's never stop lying and denying the Lord Jesus Christ Jesus is clearly "Alpha and Omega" john heard a voice behind him say: I am Alpha and Omega then john turned to see who spoke, and he saw one like "the Son of Man" Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, .... Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man the "Alpha and Omega" goes on to say: Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. 1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 1 Like |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by Janosky: 12:49am On Jul 15, 2022 |
johnw47:Dubious Trinitarians con artists "Alpha and Omega" is NOT in any Greek manuscript of Revelation 1:11. Your mentors ADDED and padded that expression into the KJV to deceive you. Please carry your delusion out of this thread. Next....... |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by johnw47: 1:43am On Jul 15, 2022 |
Janosky: Ecclesiastes 7:6 For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool lost fraud jw janosky if it's been added like fraud jw org. do to their book, then that's bad however "Alpha and omega" is clearly Jesus lets go to verse 8 john said He who was pierced comes with clouds now Father doesn't jump in here and say "I am Alpha and Omega" it's Jesus who say's "I am Alpha and Omega" Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. verse 7 john say's it's the One pierced who is coming verse 8 john say's it's the "Alpha and Omega" who is coming john also calls Him the Almighty, and i agree with Him the Father's Word is Almighty you of course would deny it: 1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father 1 Like |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by MaxInDHouse(m): 5:26am On Jul 15, 2022 |
sagenaija: The problem with you people is TRINITY! We are not relating with an angel but the Christ, what we discovered is that the one and only person who has been with God Almighty from the beginning is the angel called Michael and that is because he is the Archangel which means the one and only angel directly created by God. So if this angel now gets promoted to a lofty position due to a successful earthly mission it doesn't make him the one who should be worshiped worship belongs to only one person and that's the Almighty God! There are many angelic sons of God who are demanding worship due to their rebellious act but the one sent by God never did, that's why God ordered all those who want to prove their obedience to follow Christ as in learn obedience through him. That supposed to be called OBEISANCE and not WORSHIP as some translators erroneous interpreted it. |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by sagenaija: 8:19am On Jul 15, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: The question was simple. Your answer displays your deceptive tactics. 2 Likes |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by sagenaija: 8:29am On Jul 15, 2022 |
Janosky: Why did you ignore verse 16? Do you see why I say that you guys are being disingenuous? What is in verse 16? How did the book of Revelation start in chapter 1? Who is coming according to Revelation 1:7? Who is Revelation 22: 12 saying is coming? Another person than Revelation 1:7? Who is the First and the Last in Revelation 1: 17? Is he not the same one who said in the very next verse: ”I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever!"? Open your eyes! We can see who is deluded now. 3 Likes |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by MaxInDHouse(m): 12:43pm On Jul 15, 2022 |
sagenaija:Your quest is ambiguous nah, so you can't dictate both side. You asked your question in the public and respond must also come with the public in mind! |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by Emusan(m): 9:07am On Jul 16, 2022 |
Janosky: Did Jehovah claim to be A GOD? ole... Yes, it's in the holy Bible. That's nice! So the Father isn't Lord of Lords and King of Kings Please provide the verse and chapter from your Bible. Jesus the First and the last, the beginning and the ending John 1:1, Rev 1:17-18, Rev 22:13 You need more! 1 Like |
Re: The Word And The Watchtower: An Exegesis Of John 1:1 by Emusan(m): 9:13am On Jul 16, 2022 |
Janosky: If not because you're delusional the name "Jesus" appeared more than two times in Rev 22 yet you claimed it's not Jesus talking. Besides, the person speaking in Revelation 22:13 says He is "The First and The Last" Didn't Jesus called Himself the first and the Last in the same Revelation 1:17:18? JaNosenses the lying liar JWs like his father the Devil I know it's a great pain to you and your father the Devil that Jesus called Himself The First and the last, the beginning and the ending 1 Like |
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