MaxInDHouse:

Well you are from my point of view!

As I say, you are free to call names. Freedom of speech is my thing

funkmrflexx:
Me and my wife had an argument this morning.
God is all knowing and before creating Adam and even, He know what they would do. He knew they would be Tempted and they would eat the fruit and bring Sin to the world and He also knows that His son would have to die in order to save us from the sin caused by the fruit
Why didn't He just make the fruit inaccessible to them so they don't eat it.
But instead He Allowed them to get access to the fruit, eat and bring sin to the world.

Mind you, He's all knowing and He knows all this would happen before they did. He knew Satan would tempt them and they will fall, He also knew that He would have to curse them when they eat the fruit.

Why not just prevent this by making the fruit inaccessible to them. That's the logical thing to do

I've read a lot of comments on different opinions on this topic, but none has been able to convince me.

God knows the end from the beginning, He knew that before creating adam and Eve they would disobey even if he instructed them.
He knew that despite his efforts, they would still disobey but he still went ahead and told them not to eat the fruit when he knew before they were created the they won't be capable of obeying him in that subject.
Why did he still give them access to the fruit(Mind you he knows all these would happen even before they did)
If they said they story was an allegory, I wouldn't argue. But everyday, I find more reason to disagree with the Bible

funkmrflexx:
I've read a lot of comments on different opinions on this topic, but none has been able to convince me.

God knows the end from the beginning, He knew that before creating adam and Eve they would disobey even if he instructed them.
He knew that despite his efforts, they would still disobey but he still went ahead and told them not to eat the fruit when he knew before they were created the they won't be capable of obeying him in that subject.
Why did he still give them access to the fruit(Mind you he knows all these would happen even before they did)
If they said they story was an allegory, I wouldn't argue. But everyday, I find more reason to disagree with the Bible

The problem is you are under the impression that God's plan and sense has to appeal to your level of reasoning. God said that His thoughts are higher than your thoughts and His ways are higher than your ways. So if you truly desire to understand God and why God did what He did, you have to be willing to submit to His process so He can open your mind and eyes to see the meaning in His plan.

I already told you in my first post, you cannot understand Him unless you invest time and effort into knowing Him, and reading the book for your own self, to learn at least what is written is a good way to start.

And by the way, it is OK for you to disagree with the Bible, or even eject God from your life completely. You have the freedom of choice from Him anyways, so use it as you please.

tctrills:
As I say, you are free to call names. Freedom of speech is my thing

Just as you're also free to say whatever you can back up with valid point!

Kobojunkie:
The problem is you are under the impression that God's plan and sense has to appeal to your level of reasoning. God said that His thoughts are higher than your thoughts and His ways are higher than your ways. So if you truly desire to understand God and why God did what He did, you have to be willing to submit to His process so He can open your mind and eyes to see the meaning in His plan.

I already told you in my first post, you cannot understand Him unless you invest time and effort into knowing Him, and reading the book for your own self, to learn at least what is written is a good way to start.

And by the way, it is OK for you to disagree with the Bible, or even eject God from your life completely. You have the freedom of choice from Him anyways, so use it as you please.

So now you you are saying that God allowed Adam and Eve to eat the fruit despite knowing that they are not capable of obeying him because He has a plan I couldn't comprehend?

I think the plan was for his son to die and remove sin from the world, when all this could have been prevented by restricting Adam and Eve From getting access to the fruit.

funkmrflexx:
1. So now you you are saying that God allowed Adam and Eve to eat the fruit despite knowing that they are not capable of obeying him because He has a plan I couldn't comprehend?

2. I think the plan was for his son to die and remove sin from the world, when all this could have been prevented by restricting Adam and Eve From getting access to the fruit.

1. I didn't write the book... if it is what is written, then you ought to be willing to accept it as God's Truth. Unless of course, you continue to believe you are more intelligent than He may be in this.

2. Your first problem here, is the statement "I think". Second, you speak from a point of ignorance of what is written. Jesus Christ didn't die to remove sin from the world. It's been 2000 years and the world is still full of sin so go figure. So?

Kobojunkie:
1. I didn't write the book... if it is what is written, then you ought to be willing to accept it as God's Truth. Unless of course, you continue to believe you are more intelligent than He may be in this.

2. Your first problem here, is the statement "I think". Second, you speak from a point of ignorance of what is written. Jesus Christ didn't die to remove sin from the world. It's been 2000 years and the world is still full of sin so go figure. So?

He died so we can be closer to God because sin was restricting us access to God. There his death supposedly removed that restriction. Or Is there any other reason?

Well I guess we as Africans have been brainwashed to the point that anything that concerns God we don't want to question it.

Kobojunkie:
Your first problem here, is the statement "I think". Second, you speak from a point of ignorance of what is written. Jesus Christ didn't die to remove sin from the world. It's been 2000 years and the world is still full of sin so go figure. So?

That’s what fake messiahs do, but you can keep waiting for iesus chrestus, he’s coming VERY SOON

Kobojunkie:
1. I didn't write the book... if it is what is written, then you ought to be willing to accept it as God's Truth. Unless of course, you continue to believe you are more intelligent than He may be in this.

2. Your first problem here, is the statement "I think". Second, you speak from a point of ignorance of what is written. Jesus Christ didn't die to remove sin from the world. It's been 2000 years and the world is still full of sin so go figure. So?

Christ Said he's the way, the truth and the life and no one goes to the father except through him. That means that billions of people who are of other religion won't get access to the because they don't recognize christ. Out of over 7 billion people in the world only Christians which is about 31.2 % of the world population will make heaven. The rest won't make it because they don't recognize christ as lord and saviour

funkmrflexx:
He died so we can be closer to God because sin was restricting us access to God. There his death supposedly removed that restriction. Or Is there any other reason?

Well I guess we as Africans have been brainwashed to the point that anything that concerns God we don't want to question it.

You have to read the book for your own self so you can learn the truth from all the myths that surround this belief.

Jesus Christ came to offer to individual men the same Truth(Knowledge of good and evil) and Eternal Life(Tree of Life) that was lost to men from the time of Adam. It wasn't sin(disobedience) but the curse on Adam that kept men out of God's presence but God's curse on man from the beginning - Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22 - since that which is unholy/cursed cannot enter the presence of God. Jesus Christ came to lift that curse that was placed on us by God, and give us a way back to God again.

I am African and I am not brainwashed about what it is that is contained in that book. Ignorance is an individual choice, only that some seem more accepting of it than others may be.

Kobojunkie:

You have to read the book for your own self so you can learn the truth from all the myths that surround this belief.

Jesus Christ came to offer to individual men the same Truth(Knowledge of good and evil) and Eternal Life(Tree of Life) that was lost to men from the time of Adam. It wasn't sin(disobedience) but the curse on Adam that kept men out of God's presence but God's curse on man from the beginning - Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22 - since that which is unholy/cursed cannot enter the presence of God. Jesus Christ came to lift that curse that was placed on us by God, and give us a way back to God again.

I am African and I am not brainwashed about what it is that is contained in that book. Ignorance is an individual choice, only that some seem more accepting of it than others may be.

Look at the way your omnipotent god is handling things bwahahahah

funkmrflexx:
1. Christ Said he's the way, the truth and the life and no one goes to the father except through him. That means that billions of people who are of other religion won't get access to the because they don't recognize christ.

2. Out of over 7 billion people in the world only Christians which is about 31.2 % of the world population will make heaven. The rest won't make it because they don't recognize christ as lord and saviour

1. Access to what exactly? It is not OK to not know exactly what it is you are signing up for here with Jesus Christ.

2. LOL... even a majority of those who claim to be Christians will not qualify to enter into God's Heaven at the end of the day. Worse, ALL those who will end up in Hell(Eternal Damnation) are all of them born-agains, So?

Kobojunkie:
1. Access to what exactly? It is not OK to not know exactly what it is you are signing up for here with Jesus Christ.

2. LOL... even a majority of those who claim to be Christians will not qualify to enter into God's Heaven at the end of the day. Worse, ALL those who will end up in Hell(Eternal Damnation) are all of them born-agains, So?

You badly wanna see people burn in “hell”, but what’s burning? Human body? Spirit body? Bwahahahaha

Kobojunkie:

You have to read the book for your own self so you can learn the truth from all the myths that surround this belief.

Jesus Christ came to offer to individual men the same Truth(Knowledge of good and evil) and Eternal Life(Tree of Life) that was lost to men from the time of Adam. It wasn't sin(disobedience) but the curse on Adam that kept men out of God's presence but God's curse on man from the beginning - Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22 - since that which is unholy/cursed cannot enter the presence of God. Jesus Christ came to lift that curse that was placed on us by God, and give us a way back to God again.

I am African and I am not brainwashed about what it is that is contained in that book. Ignorance is an individual choice, only that some seem more accepting of it than others may be.

We are saying the same thing here. "Sin" is the narrative here, so christ came to remove it because we can't get access to God as sinners.

Kobojunkie:
1. Access to what exactly? It is not OK to not know exactly what it is you are signing up for here with Jesus Christ.

2. LOL... even a majority of those who claim to be Christians will not qualify to enter into God's Heaven at the end of the day. Worse, ALL those who will end up in Hell(Eternal Damnation) are all of them born-agains, So?

Well that's what they say. Seems only people who know christ will have eternal life, the rest will burn in hell. That's the whole summary of the whole thing

funkmrflexx:


We are saying the same thing here. "Sin" is the narrative here, so christ came to remove it because we can't get access to God as sinners.

Your christ came to remove “sin” in 6BC , was it an afterthought? What an omnipotent god you worship bwahahahaha

There are so many discrepancies in the Bible but when you try and question them, they tell you you can't question God. It would be a sin to do that.

funkmrflexx:
There are so many discrepancies in the Bible but when you try and question them, they tell you you can't question God. It would be a sin to do that.

Point of correction, They tell you, you can’t question yahweh, the israelite god.

funkmrflexx:
We are saying the same thing here. "Sin" is the narrative here, so christ came to remove it because we can't get access to God as sinners.

We aren't saying the same thing because Sin is disobedience whereas God's curse is final judgment/condemnation. It is essential to not confuse God's Truth with the lies floating out there as God is a stickler as far as His Truth is concerned.

Sinners can turn from their sins to again obtain the blessings of God under His Law, but those who are cursed by God's Law cannot obtain the blessings of the same Law until after they have been redeemed in some way by God.

Jesus Christ came to offer men an entirely New Covenant/Law as redemption from God's Judgement against us under the Law He gave to Adam.

triplechoice:


Then how do you solve the confusion of God not also delighting in human sacrifice. Are there two Gods in the Bible? Old testament God and new testament God? It would seem so from the look of things

Actually, the bible says God does not delight in animal sacrifice not human.
Isiah 1.11

tctrills:

Actually, the bible says God does not delight in animal sacrifice not human.
Isiah 1.11

This is very funny. God takes pleasure in human sacrifice but not animal sacrifice.

The Bible has not said so. You're the one saying so by taking Isaih 1.11 out of the context in which it was made. Read from verse 1 till the end and see the reason the God of Israel took no pleasure in the animal sacrifice offered by the children of Israel. It was not only animal sacrifice. He took no pleasure in their offerings and prayers as well.

Deuteronomy ,12.31 and 18. 10 as well as 2 kings. 21.6. shows how the God of Israel detest human sacrifice.
You sure don't know your Bible very well.

triplechoice:


This is very funny. God takes pleasure in human sacrifice but not animal sacrifice.

The Bible has not said so. You're the one saying so by taking Isaih 1.11 out of the context in which it was made. Read from verse 1 till the end and see the reason the God of Israel took no pleasure in the animal sacrifice offered by the children of Israel. It was not only animal sacrifice. He took no pleasure in their offerings and prayers as well.

Deuteronomy ,12.31 and 18. 10 as well as 2 kings. 21.6. shows how the God of Israel detest human sacrifice.
You sure don't know your Bible very well.

Lol, read the verses you referred to again. God was talking about sacrificing humans to other Gods. It has nothing against his sacrificing his son. You are the one out of context
These are the verses you mentioned.
31 You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

They all talk about sacrificing to other Gods. If God requires his son to sacrifice himself for mankind, it is not against his principles. Please read your bible.

God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son. God would never ask you to do something wrong.

tctrills:

Lol, read the verses you referred to again. God was talking about sacrificing humans to other Gods. It has nothing against his sacrificing his son. You are the one out of context
These are the verses you mentioned.
31 You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

They all talk about sacrificing to other Gods. If God requires his son to sacrifice himself for mankind, it is not against his principles. Please read your bible.

God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son. God would never ask you to do something wrong.

I think comprehension is your problem. Sorry to say this. You read the verse and what you could make of it is that God would prefer that human sacrifice is made to him and not to other gods?
The verse says, they do all kinds all of destable things which God hates. One of these destable things is sacrificing human beings, their sons and daughters to their gods and not that the God of Israel is angry because the people did not offered it to him.

So the God of Israel detest human sacrifice of any kind, his son and anyone else

I hope your fellow Christians would comment on this. You're on your own and just saying anything that comes to your mind.

As for Abraham, he did not sacrifice his son an alternative was provided for him at the last minute showing it was a test of Faith and not that God actually wanted him to sacrifice his son.
I still insist you don't know your Bible very well and because of this you have been putting your God in a very bad light .

And please stop using the word, principle, to cover for something that is very reprehensible; sacrificing a human being to forgive sin.
Modified. Talking of context, it was Isaiah 1. 11 I said you took out of context and not Deuteronomy. Did you quote that before? Why don't you address the one you quoted? You want to confuse me?

That you knw about a thing before it happens doesn't necessarily mean you must stop it from happening or allow it to happen because you have the power to stop it or make it happen. You may now say, God saw evil about to happen yet he did not stop it, my question now is, do you actually know what evil is? What is good? What is bad? You may say, so God can see something good about to happen and wd stop it? Remember, because you kw what is to come doesn't necessarily mean you must stop it or allow it even when you have the power to. Well, I ask you same question, what is Good and what is Bad? If you can be able to answer the question, I have answered your question.

Arrowss:
That you knw about a thing before it happens doesn't necessarily mean you must stop it from happening because you have the power to stop it. You may now say, God saw evil about to happen yet he did not stop it, my question now is, do you actually know what evil actually is? Think about it.

Then tell us what actually is evil since you're Gods spokesman.

Arrowss:
That you knw about a thing before it happens doesn't necessarily mean you must stop it from happening or allow it to happen because you have the power to stop it or make it happen. You may now say, God saw evil about to happen yet he did not stop it, my question now is, do you actually know what evil is? What is good? What is bad? You may say, so God can see something good about to happen and wd stop it? Remember, because you kw what is to come doesn't necessarily mean you must stop it or allow it even when you have the power to. Well, I ask you same question, what is Good and what is Bad? If you can be able to answer the question, I have answered your question.

All these so nobody question the Genesis account. Sorry,Nairaland is not your Church or Sunday school where nobody is expected to question anything but jus accept whatever explanation given ,whether it makes sense or not.

You're not even sure of what you explained up there, the reason you're running away from telling us what is good or bad. You're engaged in deceptive argument in defense of the gospel. That's all. You're not the first and won't be the last.

funkmrflexx:


I've read a lot of comments on different opinions on this topic, but none has been able to convince me.

God knows the end from the beginning, He knew that before creating adam and Eve they would disobey even if he instructed them.
He knew that despite his efforts, they would still disobey but he still went ahead and told them not to eat the fruit when he knew before they were created the they won't be capable of obeying him in that subject.
Why did he still give them access to the fruit(Mind you he knows all these would happen even before they did)
If they said they story was an allegory, I wouldn't argue. But everyday, I find more reason to disagree with the Bible

Were you expecting God to then halt everything just because God knows the outcome of things whether Good or bad? That doesn't mean God should nt go ahead with continuity or then God should. Stop being God or axistence should sieze, one may then say, so God likes it that things are bad? My question is that, don't Good things happen too? Don't God likes it that Good things happens? My submission now is that, what we kw as evil and good needs to occur for balancing. besides, what is Good? What is Bad?�

triplechoice:


I think comprehension is your problem. Sorry to say this. You read the verse and what you could make of it is that God would prefer that human sacrifice is made to him and not to other gods?
The verse says, they do all kinds all of destable things which God hates. One of these destable things is sacrificing human beings, their sons and daughters to their gods and not that the God of Israel is angry because the people did not offered it to him.

So the God of Israel detest human sacrifice of any kind, his son and anyone else

I hope your fellow Christians would comment on this. You're on your own and just saying anything that comes to your mind.

As for Abraham, he did not sacrifice his son an alternative was provided for him at the last minute showing it was a test of Faith and not that God actually wanted him to sacrifice his son.
I still insist you don't know your Bible very well and because of this you have been putting your God in a very bad light .

And please stop using the word, principle, to cover for something that is very reprehensible; sacrificing a human being to forgive sin.
Modified. Talking of context, it was Isaiah 1. 11 I said you took out of context and not Deuteronomy. Did you quote that before? Why don't you address the one you quoted? You want to confuse me?

Well, I wouldn't say rude things like you. But clearly, you don't understand. Even though God was testing Abraham's faith, he would never ask you to do something evil. God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son because it was not a sin before him.

As for the detestable thing that did, it was sacrificing humans to other Gods. That's all. He sacrificed his own son in human form so clearly, Human sacrifice could not be the sin here.

tctrills:


Well, I wouldn't say rude things like you. But clearly, you don't understand. Even though God was testing Abraham's faith, he would never ask you to do something evil. God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son because it was not a sin before him.

As for the detestable thing that did, it was sacrificing humans to other Gods. That's all. He sacrificed his own son in human form so clearly, Human sacrifice could not be the sin here.

I don't think you know the meaning of the word ,rude.I said you have shown that you don't understand the Bible very well. You have been misinterpreting Bible verses because you don't really understand them.

And you have repeated the same thing in your latest reply. It's clearly stated that the God of Israel detest humans sacrificing their sons and daughters to Gods or gods and not that he is not happy if the sacrifice is not made to him. That's exactly what that verse is saying and not what you want it to mean.

It is obvious that you're deliberately misinterpreting it in order to reconcile it with the primitive Christian doctrine of blood for the remission of sin. This is one of the major contradictions in the Bible which Bible scholars over the years have struggled unsuccessfully to explain away; A God that detest human sacrifice but still want such sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin. See, you can't reconcile this no matter how you try.

Apart from the example of Abraham, please present any other instances in the Bible where the God of Israel accepted human sacrifice as burnt offering. Mind you, Abraham never really sacrificed Isaac .An alternative was provided at the last minute after Abraham demonstrated he was ready to follow without questioning anything God ask him to do. That's the actual reason for that test of faith and not that God of Israel likes human sacrifice. He detest it. The God of the old and New testament are obviously not the same.

BTW, why should anyone worship a God that wants human blood to be spilled before he can forgive anything? What does a God need blood for?


I think it should end now. You either as a Christian accept by faith church doctrine or you don't. It's not something you can defend with logic or trying to rationalise it . You will fail.There's a reason your religion wants you to accept things without questioning .
That's the only way they can keep you believing and not knowing the truth for yourself.

triplechoice:

I don't think you know the meaning of the word ,rude.I said you have shown that you don't understand the Bible very well. You have been misinterpreting Bible verses because you don't really understand them.

And you have repeated the same thing in your latest reply. It's clearly stated that the God of Israel detest humans sacrificing their sons and daughters to Gods or gods and not that he is not happy if the sacrifice is not made to him. That's exactly what that verse is saying and not what you want it to mean.

It is obvious that you're deliberately misinterpreting it in order to reconcile it with the primitive Christian doctrine of blood for the remission of sin. This is one of the major contradictions in the Bible which Bible scholars over the years have struggled unsuccessfully to explain away; A God that detest human sacrifice but still want such sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin. See, you can't reconcile this no matter how you try.

Apart from the example of Abraham, please present any other instances in the Bible where the God of Israel accepted human sacrifice as burnt offering. Mind you, Abraham never really sacrificed Isaac .An alternative was provided at the last minute after Abraham demonstrated he was ready to follow without questioning anything God ask him to do. That's the actual reason for that test of faith and not that God of Israel likes human sacrifice. He detest it. The God of the old and New testament are obviously not the same.

BTW, why should anyone worship a God that wants human blood to be spilled before he can forgive anything? What does a God need blood for?


I think it should end now. You either as a Christian accept by faith church doctrine or you don't. It's not something you can defend with logic or trying to rationalise it . You will fail.There's a reason your religion wants you to accept things without questioning .
That's the only way they can keep you believing and not knowing the truth for yourself.

You have the example of Abraham and the example of Jesus, what more examples do you need to see that you are wrong? And if you are uncomfortable with our discussion, you can end it. The most sacred even in Christianity is the mortal sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Since you are not a Christian, I should be telling you the Christian doctrine but I can understand why you are uncomfortable.

You asked why should anyone worship a God who wants human blood to be spilled before he can forgive anything. This is the best question you have ever asked. He already answered it. The wages of sin are death. Your sins have brought death upon you. Only a kind and loving God would give you his beloved son to save you from death.

Again, for you non-Christians, your view of death is very different from the Christian view of death. So yes, we worship a God who saved us from death by offering his most precious gift to mankind.

tctrills:

You have the example of Abraham and the example of Jesus, what more examples do you need to see that you are wrong? And if you are uncomfortable with our discussion, you can end it. The most sacred even in Christianity is the mortal sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Since you are not a Christian, I should be telling you the Christian doctrine but I can understand why you are uncomfortable.

You asked why should anyone worship a God who wants human blood to be spilled before he can forgive anything. This is the best question you have ever asked. He already answered it. The wages of sin are death. Your sins have brought death upon you. Only a kind and loving God would give you his beloved son to save you from death.

Again, for you non-Christians, your view of death is very different from the Christian view of death. So yes, we worship a God who saved us from death by offering his most precious gift to mankind.

Look at you again. I asked where in the Bible was anybody' actually sacrificed for the God of Israel with the people doing the sacrificing saying what it was for . Why is it difficult for you to understand this simple question.

Abraham never really sacrificed Isaac so don't mention that one. An alternative was provided at the last minute. I kept mentioning this so you can understand exactly why the God of Israel instructed him to proceed with it in the first place. It was a test of faith. The action should not be the main focus, but this has continued to fly past your head each time I mentioned it. You can't simply grasp it.

And in case you don't know,Jesus sacrificing himself for your sins is Pauline theology . Jesus in the Bible never said he came to sacrifice himself for the atonement of sin ,neither did God in the new testament said he sent Jesus to come and die for anybody's sin.

It might be comforting to believe that someone else has died for your sins, but in the end it would only lead to not taking responsibility for own life.

Your Bible says what you sow is what you reap . If you want to mock your God, you can reject that and live your life the way you want it believing some has paid the price.

Me uncomfortable? You're just projecting. All of these started with you giving an unchristian interpretation of the Genesis account. You claimed that God set up Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit in the garden so he can later send his son to come and die for what he set them up for. It was God's plan according to you.

Can you teach this kind of thing in any Sunday school or from a pulpit where other Christians are gathered and not be seen as a devil preaching heresy? Answer me.

So, I am not uncomfortable, but no longer interested in the conversation as you're just going round in circles while avoiding dealing with the illogicallity of what you said at first about Adam and Eve.

I have insisted the story is an allegory which you're misinterpreting.

You have avoided discussing that ,but have craftily succeeded steering the conversation away in a different direction and now preaching. Sorry, I am not uncomfortable, but no longer interested . Thank you.

triplechoice:


Look at you again. I asked where in the Bible was anybody' actually sacrificed for the God of Israel with the people doing the sacrificing saying what it was for . Why is it difficult for you to understand this simple question.

Abraham never really sacrificed Isaac so don't mention that one. An alternative was provided at the last minute. I kept mentioning this so you can understand exactly why the God of Israel instructed him to proceed with it in the first place. It was a test of faith. The action should not be the main focus, but this has continued to fly past your head each time I mentioned it. You can't simply grasp it.

And in case you don't know,Jesus sacrificing himself for your sins is Pauline theology . Jesus in the Bible never said he came to sacrifice himself for the atonement of sin ,neither did God in the new testament said he sent Jesus to come and die for anybody's sin.

It might be comforting to believe that someone else has died for your sins, but in the end it would only lead to not taking responsibility for own life.

Your Bible says what you sow is what you reap . Accept you want to mock your God, you can reject that and live your life the way you want it believing some has paid the price.

Me uncomfortable? You're just projecting. All of these started with you giving an unchristian interpretation of the Genesis account. You claimed that God set up Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit in the garden so he can later send his son to come and die for what he set them up for. It was God's plan according to you.

Can you teach this kind of thing in any Sunday school or a pulpit where other Christians are gathered and not be seen as a devil preaching heresy? Answer me.

So, I am not uncomfortable, but no longer interested in the conversation as you're just going round in circles while avoiding dealing with the illogicallity of what you said at first about Adam and Eve.

I have insisted the story is an allegory which you're misinterpreting.

You have avoided discussing that ,but have craftily succeeded steering the conversation away in a different direction and now preaching. Sorry, I am not uncomfortable, but no longer interested . Thank you.

Your logic is actually twisted. Christians of all ages believe that Christ died for sin yet they strive to do better and improve their lives. The notion that Christ's sacrifice would make Christians irresponsible people is so wrong. There is no evidence that Christians do not take responsibility when compared to other belief systems.

For your other comments, I don't see the need to keep going round in circles with you. If human sacrifice is an abomination to God, he would not have tested Abraham with an evil. God is not the Devil.