WinsomeX: In theological discusses, it is very easy to reduce it to a contest of who wins or who looses. I know this because I am equally guilty. However, what is most important is that a position is clearly shown to be congruent with the truth of the bible and not just experiences. Hopefully readers can make informed decisions this way.

Since T. B. Joshua has been accepted as one of the true men of God of our time in the train of discuss so far, I must then widen my net of discussion to include him. From evidences before us, especially as presented by the SirJohn thread, we must agree that there are no miracles occurring at the Christ Embassy healing schools. However, what if miracles do occur; how can that be explained?

Does this legitimize Chris' ministry? Scripture makes provision for that also: it is called lying wonders. This is where T. B. Joshua comes in. The multitudes that flock Ikotun seeking this man's intervention is proof of the fact that whatever he is doing there is working. But as trustman has shown in earlier posts, shall the fact that something work prove its veracity? We must be thankful to God that when SirJohn visited the healing school in 2008, what he saw were pure falsehood. What would have happened if he saw lying wonders? Then he would be like a Gombs or an mbaemeka who are ready to swear to high heavens that there favorite pastors are genuine.

I end this submission with clear scriptural positions that miracles need not be staged or fake; Satan also works true miracles through his servants. Our duty is not to judge a minister by the miracle he does: fake or real; our duty is to judge the minister first by his doctrine and secondly by the fruits emanating from his life. Both of which T. B. Joshua and Chris Oyakhilome are bankrupt of.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;... 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained. 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness... 4:11 These things command and teach. 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity... 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Revelation 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

In my next post, I shall offer a discussion on each of the scriptures above so we might see their relevance to this thread.

Again we must thank God that SirJohn met fake miracles at the healing school and not lying wonders.

Gombs: ^^
Now one buddy! I'm back, who missed me? Went for cell meeting, ministry no easy o...Arsenal try sha...Drummaboy in check....it's a great day then, it could not have been any better!

Gombs: ^^
Now one buddy! I'm back, who missed me? Went for cell meeting, ministry no easy o...Arsenal try sha...Drummaboy in check....it's a great day then, it could not have been any better!

Same here bro!
I declare a win for Man U tomorrow!

PastorKun:

So what did you discuss at today's cell meeting?

Gombs:

1. Who they are in Christ, and why they should act so... divine healing and the supernatural life
4. Got one born again, had three first timers

[quote author=mbaemeka]

Many others gave theirs and it was contrary to his experience but you chose the tainted experience of one over the many others Mr. Objective.


The gift works that's why thousands and thousands have gone there and most came back with results.

Why ask Jesus why he taught on faith before healing people? Do you think it is magic? Do you know how long the queues are or how many people come from around the world with different issues?

The teachings help some to get healed by their own faith while the one's that require "more faith" are then handled by the MOG- contrary to the lies you have been told.

His write-up never said he made up his mind 6 months later. He is the one redressing it to balance the loophole. He kept saying "I observed this" "I discovered that" "I said O lord let this not be true" "In November 2008 he made posts saying to CE folks "I stopped doing this and that months ago" etc. So Please don't give me BS- I know what I am talking about.

That's why I asked him why he bothered staying for the next session when he had already made up his mind from the first session that it was a fraud. The stories don't add up. I have no doubt that he went to the HS, what I question is his account. If he was in CE Ojo, he ought to have seen many miracles happen by the hand of the resident Pastor during Night of bliss programmes and Vigils. I took a boy there (I had recently preached to him so I invited him for the programme) that was born with asthma and he has never used an Inhaler or nebulizer since then. I didn't even know he got healed- the boy told me this story 2 years later in 2011 and he reminded me that Pastor Sola Olubode gave a word of knowledge saying "There's a first timer here that was born with asthma, God has healed you". Is that one also stage-managed?

Oyinprince:
Same happened in my Cell meeting.
Had a total attendance of 17

Had nine in my Bible study class with a first-timer. They're all foundation school students!

mbaemeka:
Truckload of cow dung.

mbaemeka:
Only someone entrenched in idiocy keeps making these type of mistakes.

mbaemeka:
So far what we have seen is an incorrigible pseudo-intellectual bumbling even the easiest of scriptures and making inane assertions not worthy of any thread let alone a christian one.

mbaemeka:
Again the scriptural neophyte and his poorly studied scriptures.

mbaemeka:
Your knowledge of scripture is nothing to write home about.

Chris Oyakhilome:
crazy and stupi-d allegations....silly...

Christ Embassy member:
I have known and followed Pst Chris for several years. I have known him to be very cultured, gentle, and someone who knows his audience. I was surprised he used such filthy words while addressing his members on the issue yesterday. I think these are distinguished characteristics of (a man who) is angered, frustrated and nonchalant.

WinsomeX:
As for the usual CE suspects who will crash in on this thread to insult me, you have liberty to this. I have already responded to you.

Christ Embassy member:
These are distinguished characteristics of (a man who) is angered, frustrated and nonchalant.

Joagbaje:

Sorry I used that language . I got carried away . We only use such language among the mature .

1 Corinthians 2:6
Yet when I am among mature Christians I do speak with words of great wisdom. . .

My apology was not made because I was wrong but because it's offensive to babes . Jesus gave the command to do it .

Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Its by the power of the holyghost we minister. We do it in his name .

Oyinprince:
Same happened in my Cell meeting.
Had a total attendance of 17

Kenny4lyfe:

Had nine in my Bible study class with a first-timer. They're all foundation school students!

WinsomeX: I resist the temptation of trading words with you. But let me draw your attention to one minute detail here:



Compare with...



Final verdict from a Christ Embassy member:



We know where you learnt your trade from.

Did I not predict this?



They did not disappoint.

The rest of what you wrote is not worth a response.

And, em... I can predict the next yabis from your limited vocabulary. If its not inane... it will idiocy... or neophyte... or pseudo intellectual. You could even borrow some from your idol, Chris, crazy... silly ... stup-id...

So much for words of grace from supposed saints.

I dare you to say something different.



I am done with you on this thread.

Joagbaje:

Sorry I used that language . I got carried away . We only use such language among the mature .

1 Corinthians 2:6
Yet when I am among mature Christians I do speak with words of great wisdom. . .

My apology was not made because I was wrong but because it's offensive to babes . Jesus gave the command to do it .

Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Its by the power of the holyghost we minister. We do it in his name .

WinsomeX: I resist the temptation of trading words with you. But let me draw your attention to one minute detail here:



Compare with...



Final verdict from a Christ Embassy member:



We know where you learnt your trade from.

Did I not predict this?



They did not disappoint.

The rest of what you wrote is not worth a response.

And, em... I can predict the next yabis from your limited vocabulary. If its not inane... it will idiocy... or neophyte... or pseudo intellectual. You could even borrow some from your idol, Chris, crazy... silly ... stup-id...

So much for words of grace from supposed saints.

I dare you to say something different.



I am done with you on this thread.

trustman: I know that to you everything boils down to ‘faith’ – your definition of it. But can you CLEARLY tell me where Jesus had to first teach ON faith before healing? I know he taught, but did he have to teach ‘faith’ BEFORE HE COULD heal people? Was this His pattern?

If it’s not magic you tell me what it is. If God has given a person a gift, is that person’s expression of the gift dependent on others?

Equating Jesus’ miracles with your ‘MoG’ is so pathetic. Why did Jesus do miracles?
So that people could experience their BEST LIVES then? You actually think Jesus needed to exercise “more faith” to heal that man, and that is why he re-did His healing? You think Jesus Christ could not even from a distance effect COMPLETE healing of that man? For your information, EVERYTHING Jesus did was for a purpose – everything, including healings. He healed to fulfill prophecy, to point people to Himself and even healed TO TEACH.

If a man went to the healing school, does he at least have a faith like a grain of mustard seed for him to be there? And you’re saying that some of them need ‘more faith’ than that of the grain of mustard seed to be healed, even with the faith and healing gift of the ‘MoG’ combined with theirs?

Unless you’re claiming that after his initial write-up SirJohn then went back to modify what he wrote then either state where “His write-up never said he made up his mind 6 months later” or show (prove) how he modified his posts – unless we are talking about different posts or thread. But I’m referring to the ones on this thread.

BTW, a person can still be participating in a thing whilst he begins to have doubts about the thing. So his comments are actually in order since they are his reflections several months down the line of what had previously happened. So that adds up.

Again let’s remind ourselves that this is a specific experience of a person that cannot be denied. If so, the onus is on you guys to prove that what he said he witnessed are false.

Believers' Loveworld,
is a place where we share Gods Love
reaching out with peace and love
making plain Gods plan for all
Believers Loveworld building a happier world with love,

For five years until several months back, I would sing this anthem with joy.
Today, I sing it with tears and wish that millions of misled sincere christians singing it will suddenly wake up like I did.

I used to wonder what a world without BLW would be like, Today, I walk with freedom and relief in my spirit knowing I don't have to be bound in that 'world' a world I now know to be stained with falsehood.

Also, nobody is saying that God does not heal. But we are saying that if you claim that the Sovereign of the universe gave you a way to heal, then it must be clear and unmistakable that He is at work.

Many groups and individuals claim one form of ‘power’ or the other. Some who are clearly NOT Christian claim to ‘see vision’. And some of these turn out to be true. But does the fact that such ‘visions’ turn out to be true mean that they are necessarily from God? I would say NO. Maybe you may think differently. So what do we use to ‘judge’ who’s right or wrong? My answer is – the clear teaching of the Word of God about the matter.

By the way, your application of Galatians 4: 9 is very interesting. Maybe you needed to start first with the right interpretation – what the portion is saying. That would have led to a better application.

Maybe you people should throw open the entire healing school thing to unobstructed examination. Maybe then it might be clear to all whether it’s what you think or what we think.

Gombs:

Ah! More red oyel to your yams... having 9 under your guidance is not a small feat...weldone

For a couple of weeks now I have stood-by and watch events as it unfolds on this thread and many others on this forum. And I want to commend everyone for their contributions (either positive or negative). I might not be able to mention everyone but I'll do my best to mention some. To drummaboy aka winsomeX, shiemidemi, OLAADEGBU, PastorKun, trustman etc. I say well done. For you have, time and time again play a pivotal role in establishing the faith of many through your actions- serving as a perfect example for many not to follow.
And to Gombs, Joagbaje, mbaemeka, lambanopeace and many others who stood their ground in the defense of the truth, I say- well done!

I want y'all to remember the words of Apostle Paul in 2 Chorinthians 6 that in these are we approved as ministers of The Lord's glorious gospel.

typing...

Joagbaje:

Sin can make people lose a miracle. And there are other reasons. But still least for several months ,they were free of the excruciating pain and symptoms. If out of the thousands who got healed some had attacked of the disease. Why blame the church. What of the thousands that didn't loose their healing.

I prayed for a man with ebola in Arusha Tanzania , he got healed since August 4th , he is still healed. Every symptom stopped.

I prayed for a young man with HIV over a year ago he got healed. He went for test in 3 hospitals , his status changed to negative. He has added weight . He is still healed . Watch the video here
HIV HEALED.
https://www.dropbox.com/l/zm7qzQm89ZWxuyrDrva8kp

Yooguyz: Hey Gombs my animated gifs are not moving like yours why?

Gombs:

did you use the [img][/img] on the gif link?

jared007: [size=20pt]Ur knowledge of scripture is poor.[/size] Why didn't u condem John the Baptist for calling the pharisees "Brood Of Vipers" or our Lord Jesus for calling king herod a Fox?

trustman:

[s]Again a display of arrogance.
Sorry ... ...but no sorry
Its for the mature ...
Jesus commanded it -To Claim personal victory for things?
"WE MINISTER" ... ... "WE DO IT"
Its all about me, myself and i Plus 'we' , abi?
Give God the glory brother, give God the Glory! [/s]

Gombs:

did you use the [img][/img] on the gif link?

PastorKun:

You are a real dunce and you must think people on this forum are as daft as an average cec member. The fact that a man is skinny does not mean a man has aids talkless of full blown Aids.

mrceo63: God save ur children...
To all CEC members as far as u guys claim that self service isnt a sin....There is nothing in these world that will mk me blive... i v heard of deliverance done on pple who were possesed by d sprit of masturbation.. tell me if it werent a sin/demonic why dey d deliverance nd there as d person never did it again...@mbaemeka md Gombs