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African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. - Foreign Affairs (3) - Nairaland

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Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 10:47am On Nov 05, 2014
Pakistan has highlighted further opportunities to export its military equipment to Bahrain and Nigeria.Government statements said that Pakistan is pursuing opportunities for further defence trade and related industrial collaboration with both nations. The government also noted its ability to offer "good offset programmes" to its defence export customers, although did not elaborate.
Following meetings between Pakistan and Nigerian defence officials on 17 March, a statement outlined opportunities to increase defence trade and joint production programmes.
Nigeria is a known target customer for the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex JF-17 Thunder aircraft, jointly developed by Pakistan and China. It has also previously expressed interest in acquiring Al-Zarrar main battle tanks produced by Heavy Industries Taxila, Kaan 33 fast attack craft constructed by Karachi Shipyard & Engineering Works, and a range of firearms.
http://www.janes.com/article/35705/p...in-and-nigeria
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Patchesagain: 2:02pm On Nov 06, 2014
Henry120:


N.A doesn't lack heavy equipment. This is a point i've consistently argued, what i believe the problem is, is the N.A failing tactics and facing a more determined enemy.

N.A had the enemy on the back-foot just before the cease-fire was announced, tactically at that point, I knew the cease-fire was a bad idea, as it was going to give the enemy time to re-strategise and re-group. Operations should have continued since morale was high. The much publicised cease-fire was a blunder on so many levels.

Additional surveillance equipments are required, the eye in the sky should be able to send down coordinates of enemy positions to artillery teams on the ground. We've seen this tactic used to devastating effects in konduga.

What the Nigerian military actually has to do (in this order)

1. Develop a military wide doctrine (why this is important becomes apparent in step 2) - stating exactly what the Nigerian "style" of warfighting is and exactly what you need to do it

2. Restructure your arsenal. This is the single most important thing.

You have 3 different battle tanks, 2 different recon vehicals, 10 different APC's, 3 Different MRAP's, 5 Different armoured cars etc

This is literally a logistical nightmare. Not only that but the cost of maintaining the vehicals is exponentially higher than if you had a streamlined arsenal but in the feild it causes innumerable difficulties.

Variation in the vehicals you operate is obviously going to happen in any military... no one will have just one type of mbt, one type of IFV and one type of APC... this is a given.

But to have such a huge array... in such varying numbers (you dont have enough BTR-60's and 70's to even form a Bn of them) is... well.. really really bad for military operations.

Think about logistics.

Instead of having to move the parts for say... 8 different variants of armoured vehicles to the front... you need to send parts for 23... as well as more mechanics as not all will be qualified to work on all vehicle types.

And then there are operational problems... some vehicles cant keep up with others in operations... some cant go the same places... some dont compliment each other properly ect.

In my opinion, the single most important task Nigeria has over the next decade is to standardize the military arsenal.

I shall write a post about what (in my humble opinion), the best "force design" would be later.

Note: Not cussing the NA here, just putting forward my opinion in what I hope is a manner that will construct more valuable debate than we will see in the other thread.

2 Likes

Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Patchesagain: 4:24pm On Nov 06, 2014
...
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 10:52pm On Nov 06, 2014
Patchesagain:
...

Why did you take it down?

Before I give a full response,

Nigeria cannot standardise at this point. Nigeria still relies heavily on imports, only difference at the moment is for the LAV's the government has recently procured, the companies have local Nigerian branches, so servicing shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Patchesagain: 3:34am On Nov 07, 2014
Henry120:


Why did you take it down?

Before I give a full response,

Nigeria cannot standardise at this point. Nigeria still relies heavily on imports, only difference at the moment is for the LAV's the government has recently procured, the companies have local Nigerian branches, so servicing shouldn't be too much of an issue.

i took it down as i need to put more thought into it
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 2:05pm On Nov 08, 2014
Patchesagain:


What the Nigerian military actually has to do (in this order)

1. Develop a military wide doctrine (why this is important becomes apparent in step 2) - stating exactly what the Nigerian "style" of warfighting is and exactly what you need to do it

2. Restructure your arsenal. This is the single most important thing.

Doctrine is by no means a relative term like what we make it out to be, and besides threats change, as such, countries military manuals have to be updated to deal with these threats or new threats.

Nations, like Nigeria cannot have a military wide doctrine as a result of change in threats, and competing demands.

In the case of Nigeria, I'll rather say, politicians should be able to provide the political will and decisiveness to make the required change when they arise.

I differ with your military wide doctrine.

Patchesagain:
You have 3 different battle tanks, 2 different recon vehicals, 10 different APC's, 3 Different MRAP's, 5 Different armoured cars etc

3 different MRAPs?
5 different armoured cars?
Please Name them?

I do agree the proliferation of these different vehicles constitutes a major challenge, I do not envy N.A engineers, however this is what happens when the local defence industry is weak. Like I said in my previous post, atleast this time around, the companies that have supplied to the N.A, have a strong local presence.

This is literally a logistical nightmare. Not only that but the cost of maintaining the vehicals is exponentially higher than if you had a streamlined arsenal but in the feild it causes innumerable difficulties.

Variation in the vehicals you operate is obviously going to happen in any military... no one will have just one type of mbt, one type of IFV and one type of APC... this is a given.

Patchesagain:
But to have such a huge array... in such varying numbers (you dont have enough BTR-60's and 70's to even form a Bn of them) is... well.. really really bad for military operations.

Think about logistics.

Instead of having to move the parts for say... 8 different variants of armoured vehicles to the front... you need to send parts for 23... as well as more mechanics as not all will be qualified to work on all vehicle types.

And then there are operational problems... some vehicles cant keep up with others in operations... some cant go the same places... some dont compliment each other properly ect.

In my opinion, the single most important task Nigeria has over the next decade is to standardize the military arsenal.

I shall write a post about what (in my humble opinion), the best "force design" would be later.

Note: Not cussing the NA here, just putting forward my opinion in what I hope is a manner that will construct more valuable debate than we will see in the other thread.

Again, I do agree standardisation is a problem, and its easy for you to say, South-Africa has a significant defence industry. I do not believe we can standardise our mechanised infantry at this point.

No matter how ugly the IGIRIGI might look (I don't think it is though), it is sustaining these small steps, and replicating them, that would help us standardise.

Importing won't.
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by panafrican(m): 5:10pm On Nov 08, 2014
There is no need to discuss African military issues on the web. Doing so will help all foreign powers that want to collect strategic information on Africa and harm this continent.
Stop helping the same folks who enslaved us.
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 6:03pm On Nov 08, 2014
i want someone to give me a good analysis on what you think the role of the NA, NN and NAF will be in the next say... 1 or 2 decades. All things being equal.
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 9:50am On Nov 09, 2014
craziebone:
i want someone to give me a good analysis on what you think the role of the NA, NN and NAF will be in the next say... 1 or 2 decades. All things being equal.

This is an almost impossible request. I doubt You're going to get this over the internet.
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by ActivateKruger: 5:40am On Nov 10, 2014
panafrican:
There is no need to discuss African military issues on the web. Doing so will help all foreign powers that want to collect strategic information on Africa and harm this continent.
Stop helping the same folks who enslaved us.

lol.....These things we're discussing are already public knowledge that's why we know about them.

2 Likes

Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Patchesagain: 4:52pm On Nov 10, 2014
Henry120:



3 different MRAPs?
5 different armoured cars?
Please Name them?


23 different models of armored vehicles (from heavy to light) according to most sources
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Patchesagain: 5:47pm On Nov 10, 2014
So lets talk armor now.


Nigeria seems to have an armoured division.

But these are old and outdated and extremely cumbersome in the modern battle-space

The modern trend is a move towards independent Brigade Combat Teams

A BCT is composed of:
- 2 Combined Arms Battalions
- Each Battalion has:
- 2 tank companies of 14 tanks each
- 2 mechanized infantry companies with 14 IFVs each

Meaning that the total armored strength of a BCT is: 104 MBT's and 104 IFV's

Nigeria's current (ball-park figures) tank strength is:
- 50 T54/55's
- 108 Vickers MBT's
- 16 AMX's

So, current Nigerian armored strength suggests that the army could feild one full-strength BCT and one under-strength BCT. But the armor in both would be a mix of various MBT's.

So, assuming the goal of the Nigerian Army is to move towards the BCT and maintain a feild strength of two BCT's the move forward is simple:

- Keep the AMX's as training units at tank school

Now, the answer to the question of the armor is controversial... but here it is:

- Place and order for 58 new T54/55's to form a T54/55 BCT
- Keep the Vickers (short term) to form the second BCT

Now here is the magic part.

When ordering the T54/55 and order is to be made with either the Ukraine or Serbia for the T-55AGM or M-55S upgrade kits respectively. The upgrades are to be done domestically, while at the same time, resources are to be allocated to an indigenous development for an upgrade package for the Vickers - using techonlogy transfers, infrastructure and skills learnt from the T54/55 upgrade

This sorts out the short-mid term goals for the Nigerian Heavy armor.

The long term objective is the acquisition of a 4th Generation MBT to for Nigeria's Dynasty MBT - a vehical that will see service for the next 40-50 years. While vehicals like the T-84, T-90, Type 90, Type 98/99 may seem impressive now, it is important to note that their current capabilities are at their highest, they have been maxed out... maximum utility has been achieved. There is not much more room for organic improvement.

Here there is only really one contender that is not astronomically expensive. The Chinese Main Battle Tank 3000.

What makes it especially good is that it is designed with export in mind... meaning that its cost will not be astronomical... maximum bang for your buck.

Furthermore, Nigeria has good relations with China with regards to weapons acquisitions.

1 Like

Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Patchesagain: 5:53pm On Nov 10, 2014
....
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Patchesagain: 6:04pm On Nov 10, 2014
Now, comes the surgery.

The armored BCT's will require a heavy, tracked IFV/APC hybrid that will be acquired solely with the intention of providing organic infantry support.

Essentially, they are only used when the tanks are used.

Luckily, the acquisition here is pretty glaringly obvious: The Chinese ZBD-97
- amphibious
- room for 7 infantry
- armament includes: organic 100 mm gun/30 mm autocannon or RCS 30 mm/12.7 mm autocannon
- can fire atgm's
Planned acquisition is of 208

In the meantime, the Saurer 4K 4FA will be transferred to the BCT's, pending replacement and relegation to reserve, second line units and finally, mothballing. Note: that only 208 are required

Now we need to consider recon... organic recon elements for the BCTs

Nigeria has the FV101 Scorpion and FV107 Scimitar in this role. Both are to be decommissioned.

They will be replaced by the VBL RECO in a reconnaissance configuration.

VBL is the obvious choice due to
- superior speed, maneuverability and better stealth
- amphibious.
- pre-existing recon configuration

The VBL will now form the dedicated recon vehicle of the Nigerian military as a whole (this will result in a probable need for further acquisitions)
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Patchesagain: 6:08pm On Nov 10, 2014
So now armor is sorted out.

You have two BCT's, totaling:

104 upgraded-T54/55
104 upgraded-Vickers (immediate replacement planned)
208 ZBD-97's (replacing 208 Saur 4K 4FA's)
52 VBLS (28 per BCT).

In the process you will have cut two vehicles from service straight away (FV101 Scorpion and FV107 Scimitar)

And, since only BTC's will use tracked IFV's and the pre-existing VBL for recon you can also begin decommissioning: MT-LB, Ferret and Fox

Thus, you will have cut a total of 5 vehicle types from service immediately with a 6th and 7th (Saur 4K 4FA, Vickers MBT) to be decommissioned as ZBD's and dynasty MBT's are delivered.

This means that Nigeria will have a rapidly modernizing, streamlined and independent armored formation.

1 Like

Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Patchesagain: 6:25pm On Nov 10, 2014
mechansised, motorized infantry to follow on a later date.
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 6:28pm On Nov 11, 2014
Patchesagain:
So lets talk armor now.


Nigeria seems to have an armoured division.

But these are old and outdated and extremely cumbersome in the modern battle-space

The modern trend is a move towards independent Brigade Combat Teams

A BCT is composed of:
- 2 Combined Arms Battalions
- Each Battalion has:
- 2 tank companies of 14 tanks each
- 2 mechanized infantry companies with 14 IFVs each

Meaning that the total armored strength of a BCT is: 104 MBT's and 104 IFV's

Nigeria's current (ball-park figures) tank strength is:
- 50 T54/55's
- 108 Vickers MBT's
- 16 AMX's

So, current Nigerian armored strength suggests that the army could feild one full-strength BCT and one under-strength BCT. But the armor in both would be a mix of various MBT's.

So, assuming the goal of the Nigerian Army is to move towards the BCT and maintain a feild strength of two BCT's the move forward is simple:

- Keep the AMX's as training units at tank school

Now, the answer to the question of the armor is controversial... but here it is:

- Place and order for 58 new T54/55's to form a T54/55 BCT
- Keep the Vickers (short term) to form the second BCT

Now here is the magic part.

When ordering the T54/55 and order is to be made with either the Ukraine or Serbia for the T-55AGM or M-55S upgrade kits respectively. The upgrades are to be done domestically, while at the same time, resources are to be allocated to an indigenous development for an upgrade package for the Vickers - using techonlogy transfers, infrastructure and skills learnt from the T54/55 upgrade

This sorts out the short-mid term goals for the Nigerian Heavy armor.

The long term objective is the acquisition of a 4th Generation MBT to for Nigeria's Dynasty MBT - a vehical that will see service for the next 40-50 years. While vehicals like the T-84, T-90, Type 90, Type 98/99 may seem impressive now, it is important to note that their current capabilities are at their highest, they have been maxed out... maximum utility has been achieved. There is not much more room for organic improvement.

Here there is only really one contender that is not astronomically expensive. The Chinese Main Battle Tank 3000.

What makes it especially good is that it is designed with export in mind... meaning that its cost will not be astronomical... maximum bang for your buck.

Furthermore, Nigeria has good relations with China with regards to weapons acquisitions.
Nice write up however the the Nigerian Army tank strength is more than the numbers you listed ,there are also reports of people seeing T-72 tanks.
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by bidexiii: 9:01pm On Nov 11, 2014
Nigerdeltaboi:

Nice write up however the the Nigerian Army tank strength is more than the numbers you listed ,there are also reports of people seeing T-72 tanks.
; that's report I have never seing a nigerian army T-72 in my life I don't think the NA has such inventory in there amory !
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 11:51pm On Nov 11, 2014
Patchesagain:

....

The Vickers numbers are Off. Nigeria got a 177 vickers from the british. There are also no available upgrades for the Vickers MBT, as the manufacturer no longer exists. Besides, only Nigeria and Kenya bought that MBT in considerable numbers.

Let us wait and see what the 2 billion dollars would get Nigeria's tank battalion.
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 11:45pm On Nov 21, 2014
Nigeria eyeing the Textron Scorpion ISR/ light attack jet.

"The Scorpion is an American light attack and Intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) jet aircraft.[1] The aircraft is being developed by Textron AirLand, LLC, a joint venture between Textron and AirLand Enterprises, LLC."

It's in the same class as the L-39ZA, Alpha Jet, MB- 339.


Crew: 2
Length: 43 ft 6 in (13.26 m)
Wingspan: 47 ft 4 in (14.43 m)
Height: 14 ft (4.3 m)
Empty weight: 11,800 lb (5,352 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 21,250 lb (9,639 kg)
Fuel capacity: 6,000 lb (2,722 kg)
Powerplant: 2 × Honeywell TFE731 Turbofan, 4,000 lbf (18 kN) thrust each
Performance

Maximum speed: 450 kn (518 mph; 833 km/h)
Ferry range: 2,400 nmi (2,800 mi; 4,400 km)
Service ceiling: 45,000 ft (14,000 m)
Stall speed: less than 95 knots[41]
Armament

Hardpoints: 6 with a capacity of 6,200 lb (2,800 kg),[21] and an internal bay with a 3,000 lb (1,400 kg)[20] of armaments and other stores,
Bombs: precision and non-precision munitions


My take:

I've consistently argued that, although 4 Gen. Multi-role fighters are a fantastic asset to have, the Nigerian Airforce does not currently require a them. 4th Gen fighters cannot provide CAS, they are too fast, expensive to run for the sort of conflict we are currently engaged in, expensive to maintain and are in this sort of conflict a disposable asset.


The scorpion is a 4 Gen. Light attack/ ISR/ trainer aircraft is better suited for our current operational needs.

It has more modern sensors, targeting system an impressive ISR capability, than say the SU-25, although not as protected. The plane can loiter at 15,000 feet, higher than enemy AAA.

At $20 million dollars, it isn't cheap, but it's operational costs are significantly lower than that of other more traditional 4 Gen. Multi-role fighters in the market.



The array of precision guided munitions available to the Scorpion is also quite impressive. It can carry, hell-fire anti-armour missiles, paveway LGB's, SDB 1 and 2, JDAMS, MK 81/MK 82 iron bombs, G-CLAW, Zuni and hydra 70mm rockets.

In all the scorpion gets an 7.0 rating for our current COIN needs. 7.0 because, despite it's impressive SPECS, it's still an un-tested fighter.

The jail-breaker for this jet would ultimately be with politics, like with our Jaguar jets, we've seen politics rear it's ugly head again with Nigeria's AH-1W cobra deal with Israel fall apart, with the U.S government's refusal to grant the deal it's necessary blessing.


Politics gives the jet a rating of 1.0.


In my opinion, although the Scorpion is a brilliant jet, with an impressive array of precision weapons, predictable U.S politics could damage the effectiveness of this jet if purchased by the NAF.

In Nigeria's context,

Rating : scorpion = 3.0

No deal.

It is in the overall best interest of Nigeria to get a more dependable partner for CAS wing assets.

1 Like

Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by andrewza: 8:50am On Nov 22, 2014
Missy89:
what is your take on the first indigenous Aircraft in Africa?

This babies can be used for surveillance and light patrols. and from the looks of things, it can be very cheap.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egtrWmKNWbw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0CYD53Qc7A


not the first though, that is a marketing ploy.

personaly i do see a role for it in border patrols but i would not send it in to a warzone
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by andrewza: 9:01am On Nov 22, 2014
Missy89:


But when are we going to develop a jet engine aircraft? are we that dumb?

It is more about cost. SA did have a fighter jet program to replace the cheeta (witch where heavly modfied mirrage 3s modfied in SA) but even the rafeal (the most expnsive aircraft opstion we had when chose the gripen). Sa did assemble the imppale, BAE hawk, A109 and does 60% of the maintance on the gripen. The know how is there. But econmy of scale means it just not worth it money wise.
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Missy89(f): 12:07pm On Nov 30, 2014
andrewza:



not the first though, that is a marketing ploy.

personaly i do see a role for it in border patrols but i would not send it in to a warzone

which one is the first?
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 8:25am On Dec 03, 2014
Nigeria is close to signing up for one or two squadrons of JF-17s, according to Pakistani officials. (IHS/Patrick Allen)
The Nigerian Air Force (NAF) is close to finalising an order for the purchase of one or two squadrons of the JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft co-produced by Pakistan and China, a senior Pakistani Ministry of Defence official told IHS Jane's on 2 December.

Speaking at the International Defence Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS) 2014 in Karachi, the official said the NAF finalised its recommendation for the purchase of 25-40 JF-17s after NAF chief air marshal Adesola Nunayon Amosu visited Pakistan in October. AM Amosu's engagements in Pakistan included a visit to the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) at Kamra, north of Islamabad, where the JF-17 is manufactured.

1 Like

Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 8:47am On Dec 03, 2014
JF-17 thunder / FC-1 is a Light weight multi-role fighter jet. Jointly developed by China and Pakistan. The JF-17 thunder is in the same class as the swedish SAAB Gripen, Indian tejas, taiwanese light attack jet.

The JF-17 is powered by a single RD-93 engine, same engine which powers the J-31 stealth fighter.

The JF-17 operates an Open Architecture. It simply means we can have in Israeli avionics and related systems on our JF-17 thunder jets, if we want to.

General characteristics

Crew: 1
Length: 14.93 m (49 ft)
Wingspan: 9.45 m (31 ft, including 2 wingtip missiles)
Height: 4.72 m (15 ft 6 in)
Wing area: 24.4 m²[114] (263 ft²)
Empty weight: 6,586 kg (14,520 lb)
Loaded weight: 9,100 kg (20,062 lb)
Useful load: 3000 kg (6600 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 12,383 kg (27,300 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Klimov RD-93
Dry thrust: 49.4 kN / 51.2 kN (11,106 lbf / 11,510 lbf)
Thrust with afterburner: 84.5 kN (19,000 lbf)
G-limit: +8 g / -3 g
Internal Fuel Capacity: 2,300 kg (5,130 lb)
Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 1.8 (1,370.2 mph; 2,205.1 km/h)[115]
Combat radius: 1,352 km (840 mi)
Ferry range: 3,482 km (1,880 NM)
Service ceiling: 16,920 m (55,500 ft)
Thrust/weight: 0.95
Armament

Guns: 1× 23 mm GSh-23-2 twin-barrel cannon or 1x 30 mm GSh-30-2
Hardpoints: 7 in total (4× under-wing, 2× wing-tip, 1× under-fuselage; pylon stations number 3, 4 and 5 are wet-plumb capable) with a capacity of 5,000 kg (11,000 lb) for external fuel and ordnance
Missiles:
Air-to-air missiles:
MAA-1 Piranha (Short-range)[117]
AIM-9L/M (Short-range)
PL-5EII (Short-range)[118]
PL-9C (Short-range)
PL-12 / SD-10 (Beyond visual range)[118]
Air-to-surface missiles:
MAR-1 (Anti-radiation missile)[79]
Ra'ad ALCM (Nuclear capable Stealth Cruise missile)[119]
Bombs:
Unguided bombs:
Mk-82 (general purpose bomb)
Mk-84 (general purpose bomb)
Matra Durandal (anti-runway bomb)
CBU-100/Mk-20 Rockeye (anti-armour cluster bomb)
Precision guided munitions (PGM):
GBU-10 (Laser-guided)
GBU-12 (Laser-guided)
LT-2 (Laser-guided)
H-2 (electro-optically guided)
H-4 (electro-optically guided)[3]
LS-6 (satellite-guided glide bombs)[116]
Satellite-guided bombs[3]
Others:
Countermeasures (Flares, Chaff)
Up to 3 external drop tanks (2× under-wing 1,100 litres (240 imp gal; 290 US gal), 1× under-fuselage 800 litres (180 imp gal; 210 US gal)) for extended range/loitering time
Avionics

DEEC electronic warfare suite
NRIET KLJ-7 multi-mode fire-control radar
Night vision goggles (NVG) compatible glass cockpit
Helmet Mounted Sights/Display (HMS/D)
Externally mounted avionics pods:
KG-300G self-protection radar jamming pod[120]
WMD-7 day/night targeting pod[
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 9:27am On Dec 03, 2014
With the JF-17 thunder, it is the Block II, that is king. Improved avionics, Air-refuelling capabilities, EW capabilities and an Enhanced weapons load carrying capability.

No matter the language you speak, 25-40 planes is an impressive order. Nigeria is sure going for the JF-17 Block II and Block III. The cherry on top of the icing on the cake would be if Nigeria is going to locally assemble the Fighter in Nigeria. It would be a master-stroke.

With the pakistanis, we have a strong, rich and long military history which is over 60years old. We hold joint training, many officers and men train in Pakistan, our doctrines are similar, troops are similar, and in the past 16 months, we've had many high-level visits between the two nations. First then CAS, Alex Badeh was in pakistan for 4 days, the pakistani Air-chief also visited Nigeria a couple of months later in a 5 day visit. CAS Amosu only recently returned from Pakistan were he visited Pakistan's aeronautical complex, and hinted at Joint weapons manufacturing with the pakistani's. COAS K.T minimah was also in Pakistan, before that, the pakistani COAS had visited Nigeria.

On the Chinese, 2 stealth OPV's( the second to be completed in our brand-new state of the art shipyard in P-H) and at-least 2 helicopters are coming from them.

They also recently signed their single largest overseas contract with Nigeria, an Over 13 billion dollars coastal Rail-line.

Politically this contract (JF-17) is a very safe, dependable, sanction-less deal. A deal with trust-worthy partners. Unlike the imaginary deal for American Scorpion Light jets.

1 Like

Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by bidexiii: 9:34am On Dec 03, 2014
Henry120:
JF-17 thunder / FC-1 is a Light weight multi-role fighter jet. Jointly developed by China and Pakistan. The JF-17 thunder is in the same class as the swedish SAAB Gripen, Indian tejas, taiwanese light attack jet.

The JF-17 is powered by a single RD-93 engine, same engine which powers the J-31 stealth fighter.

The JF-17 operates an Open Architecture. It simply means we can have in Israeli avionics and related systems on our JF-17 thunder jets, if we want to.

General characteristics

Crew: 1
Length: 14.93 m (49 ft)
Wingspan: 9.45 m (31 ft, including 2 wingtip missiles)
Height: 4.72 m (15 ft 6 in)
Wing area: 24.4 m²[114] (263 ft²)
Empty weight: 6,586 kg (14,520 lb)
Loaded weight: 9,100 kg (20,062 lb)
Useful load: 3000 kg (6600 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 12,383 kg (27,300 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Klimov RD-93
Dry thrust: 49.4 kN / 51.2 kN (11,106 lbf / 11,510 lbf)
Thrust with afterburner: 84.5 kN (19,000 lbf)
G-limit: +8 g / -3 g
Internal Fuel Capacity: 2,300 kg (5,130 lb)
Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 1.8 (1,370.2 mph; 2,205.1 km/h)[115]
Combat radius: 1,352 km (840 mi)
Ferry range: 3,482 km (1,880 NM)
Service ceiling: 16,920 m (55,500 ft)
Thrust/weight: 0.95
Armament

Guns: 1× 23 mm GSh-23-2 twin-barrel cannon or 1x 30 mm GSh-30-2
Hardpoints: 7 in total (4× under-wing, 2× wing-tip, 1× under-fuselage; pylon stations number 3, 4 and 5 are wet-plumb capable) with a capacity of 5,000 kg (11,000 lb) for external fuel and ordnance
Missiles:
Air-to-air missiles:
MAA-1 Piranha (Short-range)[117]
AIM-9L/M (Short-range)
PL-5EII (Short-range)[118]
PL-9C (Short-range)
PL-12 / SD-10 (Beyond visual range)[118]
Air-to-surface missiles:
MAR-1 (Anti-radiation missile)[79]
Ra'ad ALCM (Nuclear capable Stealth Cruise missile)[119]
Bombs:
Unguided bombs:
Mk-82 (general purpose bomb)
Mk-84 (general purpose bomb)
Matra Durandal (anti-runway bomb)
CBU-100/Mk-20 Rockeye (anti-armour cluster bomb)
Precision guided munitions (PGM):
GBU-10 (Laser-guided)
GBU-12 (Laser-guided)
LT-2 (Laser-guided)
H-2 (electro-optically guided)
H-4 (electro-optically guided)[3]
LS-6 (satellite-guided glide bombs)[116]
Satellite-guided bombs[3]
Others:
Countermeasures (Flares, Chaff)
Up to 3 external drop tanks (2× under-wing 1,100 litres (240 imp gal; 290 US gal), 1× under-fuselage 800 litres (180 imp gal; 210 US gal)) for extended range/loitering time
Avionics

DEEC electronic warfare suite
NRIET KLJ-7 multi-mode fire-control radar
Night vision goggles (NVG) compatible glass cockpit
Helmet Mounted Sights/Display (HMS/D)
Externally mounted avionics pods:
KG-300G self-protection radar jamming pod[120]
WMD-7 day/night targeting pod[
Wow dis not bad for the NAF,I use to think the Jf-17 was bad but seeing the various and class of ammunitions it carries, and am glad it carries a "beyond visual range missle" and "Nuclear capable stealth cruize missile" ...BH is in serious mess !
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 9:49am On Dec 03, 2014
Our JF-17 journey.

In 2012 at our second Air-Expo, the Pakistani's were in Nigeria with their JF-17 thunder. It was at that point it became clear, that we were interested in the Fighter. However from then till today, we continued to speculate on when a firm order would be placed.

The Jet has an impressive combat radius of 1,360km, a top speed of Mach 1.9 - 2, and a service ceiling of 55,000 ft. A very agile, manoeuvrable jet and a 0.95 in thrust.

The absolute perfect fighter for our current threat requirements. With President GEJ approving 2 billion dollars for weapons purchases, it was obvious we were going to get new Fighter jets to replace our ageing fleet. CAS Amosu did mention the president had approved the purchase of helicopters and Fighter jets for our Airforce in may.

Oga Gbash10, had continued to sight many fighters at TAC. It was obvious a number of those jets came in for evaluation purposes. Nice to see, we finally taken the bull by the horn and done, the needful.
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by MikeCZAR: 9:59am On Dec 03, 2014
Henry120:
JF-17 thunder / FC-1 is a Light weight multi-role fighter jet. Jointly developed by China and Pakistan. The JF-17 thunder is in the same class as the swedish SAAB Gripen, Indian tejas, taiwanese light attack jet.

The JF-17 is powered by a single RD-93 engine, same engine which powers the J-31 stealth fighter.

The JF-17 operates an Open Architecture. It simply means we can have in Israeli avionics and related systems on our JF-17 thunder jets, if we want to.

General characteristics

Crew: 1
Length: 14.93 m (49 ft)
Wingspan: 9.45 m (31 ft, including 2 wingtip missiles)
Height: 4.72 m (15 ft 6 in)
Wing area: 24.4 m²[114] (263 ft²)
Empty weight: 6,586 kg (14,520 lb)
Loaded weight: 9,100 kg (20,062 lb)
Useful load: 3000 kg (6600 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 12,383 kg (27,300 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Klimov RD-93
Dry thrust: 49.4 kN / 51.2 kN (11,106 lbf / 11,510 lbf)
Thrust with afterburner: 84.5 kN (19,000 lbf)
G-limit: +8 g / -3 g
Internal Fuel Capacity: 2,300 kg (5,130 lb)
Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 1.8 (1,370.2 mph; 2,205.1 km/h)[115]
Combat radius: 1,352 km (840 mi)
Ferry range: 3,482 km (1,880 NM)
Service ceiling: 16,920 m (55,500 ft)
Thrust/weight: 0.95
Armament

Guns: 1× 23 mm GSh-23-2 twin-barrel cannon or 1x 30 mm GSh-30-2
Hardpoints: 7 in total (4× under-wing, 2× wing-tip, 1× under-fuselage; pylon stations number 3, 4 and 5 are wet-plumb capable) with a capacity of 5,000 kg (11,000 lb) for external fuel and ordnance
Missiles:
Air-to-air missiles:
MAA-1 Piranha (Short-range)[117]
AIM-9L/M (Short-range)
PL-5EII (Short-range)[118]
PL-9C (Short-range)
PL-12 / SD-10 (Beyond visual range)[118]
Air-to-surface missiles:
MAR-1 (Anti-radiation missile)[79]
Ra'ad ALCM (Nuclear capable Stealth Cruise missile)[119]
Bombs:
Unguided bombs:
Mk-82 (general purpose bomb)
Mk-84 (general purpose bomb)
Matra Durandal (anti-runway bomb)
CBU-100/Mk-20 Rockeye (anti-armour cluster bomb)
Precision guided munitions (PGM):
GBU-10 (Laser-guided)
GBU-12 (Laser-guided)
LT-2 (Laser-guided)
H-2 (electro-optically guided)
H-4 (electro-optically guided)[3]
LS-6 (satellite-guided glide bombs)[116]
Satellite-guided bombs[3]
Others:
Countermeasures (Flares, Chaff)
Up to 3 external drop tanks (2× under-wing 1,100 litres (240 imp gal; 290 US gal), 1× under-fuselage 800 litres (180 imp gal; 210 US gal)) for extended range/loitering time
Avionics

DEEC electronic warfare suite
NRIET KLJ-7 multi-mode fire-control radar
Night vision goggles (NVG) compatible glass cockpit
Helmet Mounted Sights/Display (HMS/D)
Externally mounted avionics pods:
KG-300G self-protection radar jamming pod[120]
WMD-7 day/night targeting pod[
Regarding armaments I don't think it will carry all those bombs, missiles and pods.

Marketing.
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 10:05am On Dec 03, 2014
bidexiii:

Wow dis not bad for the NAF,I use to think the Jf-17 was bad but seeing the various and class of ammunitions it carries, and am glad it carries a "beyond visual range missle" and "Nuclear capable stealth cruize missile" ...BH is in serious mess !

The JF-17 has and would never be a less capable fighter. It is Right up there with the SAAB Gripen, in many cases even better.

My problem with Nigeria, has always been numbers. The F-7 was supposed to be a stop-gap, but we purchased so few of them. With the JF-17, they've redeemed themselves. The numbers are great.

B-H would be completely decimated.
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 10:06am On Dec 03, 2014
MikeCZAR:
Regarding armaments I don't think it will carry all those bombs, missiles and pods.

Marketing.

Customer requirements would determine what it would carry.
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by bidexiii: 10:08am On Dec 03, 2014
Henry120:


The JF-17 has and would never be a less capable fighter. It is Right up there with the SAAB Gripen, in many cases even better.

My problem with Nigeria, has always been numbers. The F-7 was supposed to be a stop-gap, but we purchased so few of them. With the JF-17, they've redeemed themselves. The numbers are great.

B-H would be completely decimated.
I love this part of ur statement;"the numbers are great" let's roast these BH bois in hell !

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