airsaylongcon:
fratermathy, leave LordAdam alone. We know when Isokos will start calling their Urhobo brothers

"Brothers" in a figurative sense. We are distinct and have the highest recognition of our unique heritage. Your anonymous position does not hold water.

When the chips are down, the Isoko people and the Urhobo people are neighbors. We are not the same people. Beat that.

LordAdam:

I have given you a direct link, and even your Wikipedia link on Urhobo-Isoko put the Isoko people as different from the Urhobo people.

I gave you far more than Wikipedia and yet you chose to see only what you wanted to see! . How intellectual of you!

Ukere is an authority in Edoid linguistics. He is not an authority in ethnography. The course studied in Delsu is "Linguistics and Urhobo". Seeing that the Urhobo and Isoko languages are in the same family, it is not far-fetched why the Isoko language is studied briefly by those who study the Urhobo language.

Ukere, no matter what he studied, is an authority, as far as I am concerned, on Urhobo-Isoko language and culture. The name of the department has no bearing here. If Isoko was so important and different why isn't the department called Linguistics and Urhobo-Isoko?. Thank God you have affirmed that Urhobo and Isoko are in the same family. Hasn't that been my premise all along? Or have you forgotten that so soon? However, I even went further, and I reiterate, that Isoko is one of the members of the clusters that make up Urhobo as a cultural delineator. If you like keep denying this, I'd keep reminding you of this ad infinitum.

You are just ranting here. Have you written a peer-reviewed article on the Urhobos and Isokos being the same people? The answer is a resounding NO. How then are you an Authority in the subject?

Do you know what it means to rant? If I start ranting, can you stand it? And YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN! I have written an article on Urhobo being the socio-cultural appellation of our people. The article was written after an altercation with an Isoko intellectual and it was sent to West African Journal of Developmental Arts and Humanities of which I have an acceptance letter that I can sample if you want. It's Chief Editor is Prof. Abednego Ekoko, you should know him. . So when I start ranting, you'd know Mister! If acknowledging my identity irks you, its simple, acknowledge yours!!!

Where does the "SO" in Sobo come from? Why did both the Isoko and Urhobo people reject the name? Is it not because both do not believe they should be clumped together?

The SO in Sobo is a product of the fact that the colonial masters couldn't pronounced the Urhobo liquid consonant represented by the letters "Urh" and it was anglicised to Sobo! If you do not like this fact, present a data to contest it.

Please, that you do not accept defeat does not mean that you have not being defeated. You are a sorry loser.

I have NEVER lost anything in my life. I am always at the top of everything I do whether in academics, religion, philosophy, writing, etc. I never lose. In fact, I do not know how it feels to lose or what is seems like. The fact that you do makes you experienced on the subject matter. Hence, the logical end of this has been obviated!

Bring a verifiable quote from an Authority on the subject, you did not bring. Okay, find an Isoko person that says he is an Urhobo person, you cannot find.

I have presented you with citations, books, names of people, websites, link, etc and yet you remain blind to all of them. That tells you something about yourself. I just hope you do not learn that fact when it is too late

You see people are not blind. And again, the Isoko people already have what they want. To be distinct from the Urhobo people. Extremists cannot be expected to change their views even in the face of compelling argument.
You can argue with an Okpe man that he is an Urhobo. With an Isoko man, you have lost the argument before you start. I am an Isoko person, I know my history, and I know I am not an Urhobo person. I share this conviction with about a million Isoko people. And our opinion has been sanctioned by the government. Even if we were to divide into a different republic, the Urhobo and Isoko people can never be one and the same people. Your lame opinion does not stand a chance.

Yes. I acknowledge that you are ethnically distinct. You have gotten your wish and what you want. However, in intellectual arguments and in the eyes of everyone who is non-Isoko, the ethnic nationality WILL ALWAYS CONTINUE to be an integral part of Urhobo ETHNIC GROUP!
And it is not just my opinion because more than 100 million Nigerians hold the same view! This cant beat the 1 million or so who do not. Facts are sacrosanct!!!

Expectedly, you will make a follow-up post with the grim illusion that you will never lose an argument. You have lost this one. And I can only imagine how many arguments you have lost, only for you to maintain an apparent losing position. And I can imagine any right-clicking person to say it is okay, at least we share a common ancestry.

Lost what? Is this what you say as a last minute defensive stance? Everyone watching us know that the conversation has only begun. We are still in the prelude as far I am concerned. I believe defeat is reached when a party runs out of points to use. I only see you being out of points because I have more in my arsenal that I am hoarding for the continuity of this argument. Let us have yours, you have refused to show none. The question is simple, give us 10 reasons why Urhobos and Isokos are different and these reasons must be facts that cannot be contested. I know you'd come again and claim to have won . I am used to sore losers doing that and yet you claim to be undefeated! How experienced you are at knowing about loss! Whew!!!!

My friend, always stand for unity and let go of tribalism! It wont do you good.

Like I said, I NEVER EVER LOSE ! I'd keep hammering you ad infinitum.

fratermathy:


To trash another point I overlooked, WHO TOLD YOU ITSEKIRIS AND IJAWS DRESS ALIKE?
For one, IJAWS dress in NO WAY like Urhobos! Ijaws have their own unique dress sense. Any Ijaw you see, have seen or will see dressing like an Urhobo is simply doing so for fashion's sake and not as his traditional clothing. Ijaws dress like this:


Itsekiris dress "similar" to the Urhobos but not exactly! Itsekiri's similarity to Urhobo in dressing is even disputed because Itsekiri aristocrats dress in no way like Urhobo aristocrats. In fact, Itsekiris dress more like Edos than Urhobos. The nature of the material and how they tie their wrappers are totally different from Urhobos. This is how Itsekiris dress:



Urhobos and Isokos, on the other hand, DRESS EXACTLY THE SAME in EVERY WAY! There are no differences in this case. This is how we dress below:



In essence, YOUR THEORY IS WRONG, AGAIN, AS EXPECTED!!!

You took the bait.

An itsekiri wedding and a delta Ijaw group picture.

Do you notice the 2 piece (top and wrapper with hat and walking stick) dress code for the groom in the itsekiri wedding?

In the ijaw group picture, do you notice the young kids who use the 2 piece dress code.

The 2-piece dress code is adopted by many SS tribes. You can simply not say it is peculiar to the Urhobo and Isoko people. Even the SE people have an adaptation of the 2-piece dress code.

When did the itsekiri people start using coats in their traditional wear. The Ijaw people are expansive. They extend as far as present day Ondo state, and make up Baylesa and Rivers as well. I referenced Delta Ijaw that many times take up the 2-piece dress code. The Ijaws in Baylesa and Rivers do not take up this dress code opting for a signature style popularized by GEJ.

And do you notice that across the four groups, Isoko, Urhobo, Itsekiri, and Ijaw; the women have a similar two-piece dress code?

Of course, you will say that you are an Authority in the dress code of the SS ethnic groups as well. Please go ahead and do not surprise me. Expert ko, Authority ni.

pazienza:


Oza nogogo speaks an Edoid language called "ozara" , though it's dying now.

But the presence of ozara, a dying language, re affirms my point. The fact that Oza people are Edo people who migrated to an already Igbo speaking Agbor in the ancient times, is a well known fact, and they have Ozara language to prove it.

Sorry bro, you only helped my case with your Oza example.

Ika has always been Igbo speaking right from antiquity, Edo influences only introduced some Edo words and names into their vocabulary, just as Efik/ Ibibio influences introduced Efik / Ibibio names into AroChukwu vocabulary and names, but Ika like Arochukwu remain strictly Igbo, so much that any Igbo with understanding of Igbo Izugbe would have no problem holding a conversation with an Ika speaker at a first meeting. But no Bini or Edo man could ever understand Ika language.

It is a known fact that Bini at many to times in history introduced the "Ada" system in Ika area, where an Ika king can only rule if recognized by Bini, an Ika prince would be sent to Edo courts to learn the ways of the Edo, and returns at the appropriate time to take the throne in Ikaland as a Bini acculturated Ika king, who most of the time take the name of any dead famous Edo Oba, as his new name, in efforts to curry favour from Bini overlords, the New king was also fluent in Bini language, and carry out most of his court proceedings in Bini language, Bini language became an Elite language in most Ika royal courts, but the commoners spoke Ika.
The truth that Bini in the past forced her cultural imprints on Igboid speaking people of Anioma( Ika inclusive) is both a historical fact and a modern reality witnessed in Igbanke, where the Bini introduced Edoid titles like "Enogie" to replace original Igboid title that is "Eze", "Obi", etc, and where the Bini had been subtly encouraging the people to take on Edoid names, as those who do are subtly rewarded while those who doesn't are subtly frustrated.

Ogbuefi, a proud Igbo man of Ika origin once explained all these on this forum, I will look for those his posts.

But know this, no acculturation took place in Ika, the people were Igbo speaking from the very beginning.

First of all, there is no such thing as ozara, you've been corrected by different users but you insist! I am partly an Oza man, we have no igbo words at all, we only have bini and enuani, and as a fluent speaker of these dialects I don't need a stranger to tell me about my hx. And take note oza is not a dying language, our speakers have not diminished and thank God we recently started going to school. And what is the ADA system? I wonder where you get your theories from. IKA is not aniocha! Aniocha is igboid

Who were the original settlers at aro?? Who influenced who? The igbos came and fought the aboriginal ibibio severally until they finally won utilizing 5th columnists. The history is on wiki, read up

I could pursue this debate speaking OZA and you would not understand a word! Note also that the oza-nogogo have their kin, the oza-nisi in edo state, who speak bini with fewer ika words in it, and both groups bear benin names, understand bini, have benin customs and regalia.

Did the real igbos have ezes and obis? Who now told you that people who refuse to adopt benin names are dealt with?

LordAdam:


"Brothers" in a figurative sense. We are distinct and have the highest recognition of our unique heritage. Your anonymous position does not hold water.

When the chips are down, the Isoko people and the Urhobo people are neighbors. We are not the same people. Beat that.

Someone has, yet again, spoken the truth and as expected of you, you throw invectives at him. Oh! How well you act in all expectation!

Your assertion to the world that Isokos are "merely neighbours" to Urhobo is nothing but the spark of a plug in a vast ocean of darkness! All the Isoko linguists put together wouldn't be able to successfully win this argument!

This is why I always tell Isokos that it is easier to let it go when your Urhoboness is pointed out than to argue against so. This is because in such argument, you unearthen more facts to prove that you are Urhoboid more and more and you end up placing your group in a Bermuda void, devoid of progenitorial strength! Even your claim to Edo is shaky at best and your Igboid ancestry is nothing to write home about. Urhobo is the only thing you've got that concretises your history as a people, if you throw that away, you throw yourself into ethnic oblivion. Soonest, your language may become extinct as less and less people speak it! If it is acknowledged as an integral part of Urhobo, at the least, it'd be academically documented as such as there will always be speakers drawn from the academic documentation carried out by Urhobo scholars just as Okpe and Uvwie have already been wholly documented in phonology, morphology, syntax and semantics. Isoko is losing out on this and unity is what is needed now. If you and your kins keep preaching the divisive message of distinctiveness, you may be threatened with encroachment, extinction and oblivion!

fratermathy:



Urhobo, which I can assertively speak on, loaned Igho from the Portuguese word Igou/Igos which means money. However this money implied here is in the form of coins or paper legal tender. The forms of money we used before contact with Portuguese were cowries and trade-by-barter and there are Urhobo terms for both that are not loaned.

Igos is not Portuguese for money.

LordAdam:


You took the bait.

An itsekiri wedding and a delta Ijaw group picture.

Do you notice the 2 piece (top and wrapper with hat and walking stick) dress code for the groom in the itsekiri wedding?

In the ijaw group picture, do you notice the young kids who use the 2 piece dress code.

The 2-piece dress code is adopted by many SS tribes. You can simply not say it is peculiar to the Urhobo and Isoko people. Even the SE people have an adaptation of the 2-piece dress code.

When did the itsekiri people start using coats in their traditional wear. The Ijaw people are expansive. They extend as far as present day Ondo state, and make up Baylesa and Rivers as well. I referenced Delta Ijaw that many times take up the 2-piece dress code. The Ijaws in Baylesa and Rivers do not take up this dress code opting for a signature style popularized by GEJ.

Of course, you will say that you are an Authority in the dress code of the SS ethnic groups as well. Please go ahead and do not surprise me. Expert ko, Authority ni.

Bait ko, fish ni.

I didn't take any bait because there was none in the first place. Can you ever set a bait in your life? Common fact like this, you cannot see and you talk of setting a bait.

Urhobos HAVE A DISTINCTIVE DRESS CODE! No OTHER GROUP in the NIGER DELTA dress like Urhobos do. Only Itsekiris dress similar to Urhobos as I have already asserted and yes! I am an expert in Urhobo Fashion as well, it is all part of Urhobo culture which is my forte! If you find that funny then I find your logic pitiable. IJAWS DO NOT DRESS LIKE URHOBOS! Urhobos do not dress like any Niger Delta Group! Show me a picture of any group in the Niger Delta dressing like Urhobos! Urhobos do not even dress like GEJ. GEJ dresses like Ijaw people and like most of the people of Rivers State!

Itsekiri dressing is more similar to how Urhobos dress but radically different! Ask any Itsekiri man. Onuwaje and Goodboiy, am I lying?

fratermathy:


You keep saying that Urhobo and Isoko are Edoid and are distinct. Therefore it is safe to say that since they are both Edoid and are linguistically and culturally the same, then their progenitor must have had the same common cultural and linguistic markers? If so, then why do;
1. Isokos and Urhobos call God "Oghene" and Edos dont?
2. Isokos and Urhobos eat "Ukhodo" as native meals and Edos dont?
3. Isokos and Urhobos share names of people, animals, things and places that Edos do not?
4. Isokos and Urhobos share titles of Kings, monarchical lexical items and royal cosmology that Edos dont?
5. Isokos and Urhobos have the same fashion style that Edos dont?

There are more but I have made my point! Urhobos and Isokos are Edoid no doubt! However, they could never have existed as distinct peoples when their Edo progenitor, which ought to be the protoid culture and language, lacks what they both share together. It implies that either Isokos were originally Urhobos who migrated at different times or that Isokos were a different people, most likely Igbos, who learnt Urhobo due to contact and created a unique version of it. In both versions, whether truistically or not, Urhobo remains the protoid culture and language! I am not Urhobo because I speak Urhobo! I am Urhobo because I speak AGBON which is a member of the Urhobo linguistic and cultural cluster. That has and will always remain my argument and premise.
As of this moment, I cant fathom the bearing of your argument because you seem to be strictly on the defensive without any directional premise upon which your argument is anchored and do not tell me your argument is that Isokos are different from Urhobos because that ship has already sailed ages ago when Isoko started speaking, dressing, eating, dancing, and living like Urhobos!

Find your intellectual compass and point it NORTH!

Okay lemme come in

1. The binis also refer to God as oghene, though it is rarely used these days except during certain rituals. Around the migration period, oghene was the term for God. We even had an Oba named ore-oghene and ore-oghene quarters is still in benin today, around TV road.

2. Binis eat ukodo too.. Though not a staple food. Those of us who grew up around grandparents are very familiar with benin traditional cuisine of which ukodo is an integral part for the old ladies club

3. Edo and urhobo and isoko share names of objects. We can start an edo-urhobo-isoko comparison thread if you wish

4. All benin offshoots and some vassal states had OGIEs as their rulers. These OGIES were of three categories, the ENOGIE, inherited, which was roughly a duke, reserved for the Oba's brothers in order to keep them busy, then there were the ENIGIE who were just distinguished commoners that rose to admin positions due to learning, magic or valour eg obo evben isi ( corrupted to obomisi), okhuahe, iken etc. These were non inheritable. the urhobo ovie, orodje were a corruption of ogie, initially highly placed individuals from benin of ENOGIE status.

5. The dressing is similar though there are notable differences. The benin chiefs often do not wear shirts, but the enogies often wear shirts. Do the urhobo kings wear shirts?? In contemporary times, our dressing has become distinct from yours, especially the urhobo headwear which has no place in benin custom

Just as I thought!

Oba godo is a brand new fabricated phenomenon.

The author of this very article titled IN DEFENCE OF EDO WOMEN you got the OBAGODO from says "i have reworked and added a few things in view of the ongoing debate over prostitution by Edo girls", which means the writeup can still be edited to accomodate as much word as you want, you can even choose to add any other Yoruba word/name like Ademola tomorrow. It is very recent and does NOT support your claim.
Oba is a Yoruba word until you or anyone can show 'oba' in Edo words that have nothing to do with Yoruba.


[quote author=bigfrancis21 post=398
http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/edoculture.htm[/quote]

rexbuton:


Okay lemme come in

1. The binis also refer to God as oghene, though it is rarely used these days except during certain rituals. Around the migration period, oghene was the term for God. We even had an Oba named ore-oghene and ore-oghene quarters is still in benin today, around TV road.

2. Binis eat ukodo too.. Though not a staple food. Those of us who grew up around grandparents are very familiar with benin traditional cuisine of which ukodo is an integral part for the old ladies club

3. Edo and urhobo and isoko share names of objects. We can start an edo-urhobo-isoko comparison thread if you wish

4. All benin offshoots and some vassal states had OGIEs as their rulers. These OGIES were of three categories, the ENOGIE, inherited, which was roughly a duke, reserved for the Oba's brothers in order to keep them busy, then there were the ENIGIE who were just distinguished commoners that rose to admin positions due to learning, magic or valour eg obo evben isi ( corrupted to obomisi), okhuahe, iken etc. These were non inheritable. the urhobo ovie, orodje were a corruption of ogie, initially highly placed individuals from benin of ENOGIE status.

5. The dressing is similar though there are notable differences. The benin chiefs often do not wear shirts, but the enogies often wear shirts. Do the urhobo kings wear shirts?? In contemporary times, our dressing has become distinct from yours, especially the urhobo headwear which has no place in benin custom

Good! Thanks for proving my points more and more! All these, as you said, may be present in minute forms here and there in Edo. However, they are STRONGLY present in Isoko and Urhobo. Their presence in Edo is not strong enough to assert that Isokos are independent of Urhobos. Urhobo is Edoid and so these things are expected. It'd be a misnormer if they are not present. However, you'd agree with me that Urhobo and Edo are so far apart in virtually everything as compared to Urhobo and Isoko!!!

@fratermathy

After all your agrima you typed this.

Yes. I acknowledge that you are ethnically distinct.

Uya u don lose. Oshare gbutu for me mk me forgive your insolence.

If you like continue quoting me till thy Kingdom come, this time you meet person when pass you. Rexbuton go continue with you.

Since you said you do not know what loss feels like. Let me educate you. It is nothing to be ashamed of. Kpele!

Good bye.

Isoko wa do!

Goodboiy and the Urhobo gents and ladies in the house. Thank you for the thread and promoting the heritage of the South South people.

-Lord over and out.

LordAdam:
After all your agrima you typed this.



Uya u don lose. Oshare gbutu for me mk me forgive your insolence.

If you like continue quoting me till thy Kingdom come, this time you meet person when pass you. Rexbuton go continue with you.

Since you said you do not know what loss feels like. Let me educate you. It is nothing to be ashamed of. Kpele!

Good bye.

Isoko wa do!

Goodboiy and the Urhobo gents and ladies in the house. Thank you for the thread and promoting the heritage of the South South people.

-Lord over and out.

Why didn't you finish the quotation:

Yes. I acknowledge that you are ethnically distinct. You have gotten your wish and what you want. However, in intellectual arguments and in the eyes of everyone who is non-Isoko, the ethnic nationality WILL ALWAYS CONTINUE to be an integral part of Urhobo ETHNIC GROUP!
And it is not just my opinion because more than 100 million Nigerians hold the same view! This cant beat the 1 million or so who do not. Facts are sacrosanct!!!

I wonder where I condescended to your ethnocentric claims!

The Oshare don run! You run away so shamefully and without honour whatsoever! I thought you'd press on till the very end. You de claim winning, na who be the judge? Mtchewww

Nobody lost anything. You don tire for argument shebi? See your warped logic.

I have always said Isokos are ethnically different. Na now you see am? Goto my earliest posts on this argument, I have always said so. My argument, which you have not negated, is that Isoko is a cultural and linguistic unit of Urhobo and that remains my view ad infinitum.

See how you cower out of this argument like a coward. You for stay make I wire you na! lol

After all your grammar of being undefeated, you con waka abi? Oh! Undefeated chairman my left lap!

One thing though, I like your persistence and use of English. It is rare to see someone so persistent even in loss!

For all intents and purposes and to clarify your misconception, I believe I WON THIS ARGUMENT from the very point when you refused to give me data to substantiate your bogus claims.


After all said and done, I conclude with this simple, undeniable fact;
ISOKO is ETHNICALLY DIFFERENT BUT REMAINS AN INTEGRAL PART OF URHOBO ETHNIC GROUP BY VIRTUE OF ITS CULTURE AND LANGUAGE!
This has been and will always be my bone of contention!



I assume you to have lost this altercation unless you prove otherwise, to which I am everly ready! I'd add this conversation to my trophy box and your name shall go with it.

rexbuton:


First of all, there is no such thing as ozara, you've been corrected by different users but you insist! I am partly an Oza man, we have no igbo words at all, we only have bini and enuani, and as a fluent speaker of these dialects I don't need a stranger to tell me about my hx. And take note oza is not a dying language, our speakers have not diminished and thank God we recently started going to school. And what is the ADA system? I wonder where you get your theories from. IKA is not aniocha! Aniocha is igboid

Who were the original settlers at aro?? Who influenced who? The igbos came and fought the aboriginal ibibio severally until they finally won utilizing 5th columnists. The history is on wiki, read up

I could pursue this debate speaking OZA and you would not understand a word! Note also that the oza-nogogo have their kin, the oza-nisi in edo state, who speak bini with fewer ika words in it, and both groups bear benin names, understand bini, have benin customs and regalia.

Did the real igbos have ezes and obis? Who now told you that people who refuse to adopt benin names are dealt with?

You clearly have comprehension issues.

Oza people speak an Edoid language called Ozara. Oza is an Edoid language, because the people are Edo in origin, Ika is Igboid because the people were Igbo speaking from the very beginning.

Oza people are not originally Ika, they. migrated from Edo to Agbor and were welcomed into Agbor by an Obi of Agbor in the ancient time.

The above history is a known fact.

If you don't know of the Ada staff given to Ika kings in the past by the Oba of Bini then you are not probably in position to debate on these issues.

pazienza:


You clearly have comprehension issues.

Oza people speak an Edoid language called Ozara. Oza is an Edoid language, because the people are Edo in origin, Ika is Igboid because the people were Igbo speaking from the very beginning.

Oza people are not originally Ika, they. migrated from Edo to Agbor and were welcomed into Agbor by an Obi of Agbor in the ancient time.

The above history is a known fact.

If you don't know of the Ada staff given to Ika kings in the past by the Oba of Bini then you are not probably in position to debate on these issues.

Refrain from strong language
Once again the language oza and not ozara.. Some people refer to it as owuwu which is not wrong either.

You have any historical sources backing your claim that they came from benin and the obi of agbor welcomed them? And also proof that they were given Ada? And the Oba gave them Ada? You don't just cook up funny stories and post online
Give me credible citations. I'm waiting

rexbuton:


Refrain from strong language
Once again the language oza and not ozara.. Some people refer to it as owuwu which is not wrong either.

You have any historical sources backing your claim that they came from benin and the obi of agbor welcomed them? And also proof that they were given Ada? And the Oba gave them Ada? You don't just cook up funny stories and post online
Give me credible citations. I'm waiting

I have heard the language referred to as Ozara.

You keep misunderstanding me, I never said the Oza were given Ada by the Bini, Oza remain under the control of Agbor .
www.nairaland.com/458875/delta-igbo-bendel-igbo-what/27

The above exchange between Ogbuefi an Ika man proud. of his Igbo root and Physics a Bini man, on Oza history might help you clear your doubts.

It was other Ika towns that couldn't resist Bini that had kings who were given Ada as Mark of submission to Bini.

In all, what is clear is that Oza was Edoid speaking right from the very beginning, and remain so even today, while Ika( Agbor in this case) had been Igboid speaking from the very beginning and remain so today. While Oza being an Edoid language borrowed many Igboid words from Agbor, Agbor( Ika) being an Igboid language borrowed edo words from Oza, but both languages remain mutually unintelligible.

So once again, no Igbo acculturation took place in Ika.

clefstone:
You should read about the Abohs and how they conquered and took over the land that belonged to the Akarais.
The Akarais are aboriginals of the area known today as Aboh and were most likely always Igbo.
The people that formed the ancient Aboh kingdom are confirmed migrants who settled, conquered and pushed the aboriginal Akarais to the fringes.
What I am telling u now is not folk tales or speculation. It's a known fact that is acknowledged by the Abohs and Akarais who still live in d fringes of the present day Aboh. There is a court case in which the akarais after hundreds of years are asking for compensation from the Abohs.
About how the Abohs speak igbo, even you should know why. They migrated to an area where the language is igbo and the inevitable happened after some hundred years.

We have had this argument before and it's a pity that after all these while, you have refused to start being rational just for once: https://www.nairaland.com/1362294/abohs-delta-state-not-igbos

Abohs chased away the Akarai who were Igbo speaking, but everything about Aboh suggests that they too were Igbo speaking from the very beginning.

For example, Esumai( the founder of Aboh) fresh from Bini gave his very first son an Igbo name OGWEZI, OGWEZI founded Aboh kingdom and gave the town the name Aboh, derived from the name "Aboh ji", yet an Igbo name.
Ogwezi arranged Aboh kingdom into two strata, ie Ndiche( outsiders) and Ndieze( insiders), yet two Igbo words.

How can Esumai and Ogwezi just within decades of their departure from Bini forget how to use Bini words to name things, but named all nameables using Igbo language, and not only did they do that, they would also go ahead to throw away every trace of Bini language they could, so much that Aboh became Igbo speaking, even when there was no pressure from an Igbo empire forcing them to do that.

This is unprecedented in human history and is totally impossible. Especially when we consider the fact that the Olukumis surrounded by Igbo speaking people in Aniocha Delta state, till today have their Yoruboid language even as a second language, to prove that they once spoke a Yoruboid language in the past, and in Ebonyi state Ntezi and Effium towns in Ohaukwu LGA of the state, though surrounded by Igbo speaking people of Ebonyi, still retained their "KELE" language which is not Igboid and totally mutually unintelligible to their Ebonyi Igbo neighbors, KELE being a language spoken predominantly in Cross Rivers and Benue state, and the KELE speaking towns ( Ntezi and Effium) in Ebonyi said to have migrated to Ebonyi from Cross Rivers in the past, but lack of Igbo empire and forced acculturation that would come with it, ensured that KELE language was preserved in Ebonyi, with the people becoming Bilingual in Igbo and KELE to enable them communicate with their Igbo speaking neighbors, the same Bilingual scenario is seen in Olukumi parts of Aniocha.

Your story of a Bini speaking Aboh that without force,dropped her Bini language entirely for an Igbo one is not only irrational but an insult to the intelligence of any rational being.

For a people that now keep shouting about their Bini origin with and constantly express loathe for everything Igbo, one would think that the Abohs would have held unto the only thing that links them to Bini, ie Bini language, but alas, everything linked to antiquity in Aboh reeks of Igbo language.

fratermathy:


You can argue this all you want and use anecdotes drawn from primordial societies, you'd never win! All other ethnic groups in Nigeria know that Isoko is a cultural branch of Urhobo. You speak of other clans breaking free and yes I agree! They have tried and are still trying! What they dont understand is this: which tribe is Urhobo? Answer: None! Urhobo is not a language or a tribe but a common term used to delineate a group of people with an homogenous culture and related languages! Urhobo is a cultural indicator to which Isoko belong!

Even in larger ethnic groups like Yoruba and Igbo, there are factions that claim to be different. i.e. Ikwerres, Ikas, Ukwuanis, for Igbo; Oron, Eket, for Ibibio; Igbomina, Okun, for Yoruba; etc. So the case of Isoko claiming to be different from Urhobo is NOT UNIQUE! They can claim all they want! Nobody can take that away from them but we know better! Isoko is as culturally Urhoboic as Okpe, Uvwie, Eruwa, Udu, etc are! Just because of senatorial arrangements, they believe they'd fare better being distinct than being associated with Urhobo. This, however, has not favoured them as Isokos are calamitously marginalised in Delta South.

Do not spear head divisions where none exists! Just leave your argument at the point that Isoko is ethnically different from Urhobo and I'll skeptically look away! But to argue that they are culturally and linguistically different is something I'd argue even in Heaven and Hell.!

See Igbomina and Okun never claim to be different from other Yoruba ooo.

Classicool:

See Igbomina and Okun never claim to be different from other Yoruba ooo.

Oh please! If you don't understand me, ask me to explain. This ship has sailed ages ago.

fratermathy:



Oh please! If you don't understand me, ask me to explain. This ship has sailed ages ago.

Okay Explain because my Grandma is from Okun and live there for almost 5yrs... I don't understand what you mean by Okun and Igbomina are Yoruba

clefstone:
northerners and westerners consider Urhobos as Igbos, does that make them igbos?

Really
The same urhobo that was in the old western region

Classicool:

Okay Explain because my Grandma is from Okun and live there for almost 5yrs... I don't understand what you mean by Okun and Igbomina are Yoruba

"Not" you mean?

Amongst Yorubas, there are groups such as Igbomina and Okun that believe their geopolitical zoning may have affected their lot politically and otherwise. Some of them see themselves as being in a dilemma. These people are fully Yorubas but at the National level, Yoruba sociopolitical groups see them as Northerners and Northerners see them as Yorubas. Because of this, some of them simply say I am Igbomina or Okun, instead of I am Yoruba. This is simply because they feel it'd be better to fashion their own distinct identity. This has informed their clamour for separate states! This, in no way, negates their Yoruba status. It is purely political!

fratermathy:

"Not" you mean?

Amongst Yorubas, there are groups such as Igbomina and Okun that believe their geopolitical zoning may have affected their lot politically and otherwise. Some of them see themselves as being in a dilemma. These people are fully Yorubas but at the National level, yorubas sociopolitical groups see them as Northerners and Northerners see them as Yorubas. Because of this, some of them simply say I am Igbomina or Okun, instead of I am Yoruba. This is simply because they feel it'd be better to fashion their own distinct identity. This has informed their clamour for a separate states! This, in no way, negates their Yoruba status. It is purely political!

Thanks... I know that already.... I thought otherwise before....
They see them as minority... And if PMB consider the CONfab they will be back to Majority..

fratermathy:

"Not" you mean?

Amongst Yorubas, there are groups such as Igbomina and Okun that believe their geopolitical zoning may have affected their lot politically and otherwise. Some of them see themselves as being in a dilemma. These people are fully Yorubas but at the National level, yorubas sociopolitical groups see them as Northerners and Northerners see them as Yorubas. Because of this, some of them simply say I am Igbomina or Okun, instead of I am Yoruba. This is simply because they feel it'd be better to fashion their own distinct identity. This has informed their clamour for a separate states! This, in no way, negates their Yoruba status. It is purely political!

Thank you....


I'm an Okun person. And I'm purely Yoruba, the truth be told Okun have suffer discrimination from her kins and kits(Yoruba)....it even worse that such things still persist in this age....I was born and brought up in the north, I speak Hausa more than Yoruba but I understand the language, in my school here in Lagos I found myself in our director's office for a meeting. Somehow she found out I couldn't speak Yoruba fluently and realize I was Okun, then she ask me never to step in her office again until I speak Yoruba better. Imaging that. This whole thing is political, I simply don't know what the Yorubas aim at achieving with this ooooo...

I asked after this which you could not provide answer, so how come you are coming now to quote again? Anyway Omeruo is the one Igbos answer, likewise oyibo, eke, okpara, Thought you were denying that there are no Igbo elements in Urhobo and Isoko?

fratermathy:


Urhobos don't bear Okpara as a name. It is the name of a village. The village is the first son of Agbon, an urhobo clan. If anyone bears Okpara as a name in Urhobo, the person is probably answering the village's name as is common in Urhoboland. The other names you mentioned are no common and even the few that bear them have a cogent history behind them. The person I know bearing Omerua said it is a corruption of Omeruo, an urhobo word.

fratermathy:


You can argue this all you want and use anecdotes drawn from primordial societies, you'd never win! All other ethnic groups in Nigeria know that Isoko is a cultural branch of Urhobo. You speak of other clans breaking free and yes I agree! They have tried and are still trying! What they dont understand is this: which tribe is Urhobo? Answer: None! Urhobo is not a language or a tribe but a common term used to delineate a group of people with an homogenous culture and related languages! Urhobo is a cultural indicator to which Isoko belong!

Even in larger ethnic groups like Yoruba and Igbo, there are factions that claim to be different. i.e. Ikwerres, Ikas, Ukwuanis, for Igbo; Oron, Eket, for Ibibio; Igbomina, Okun, for Yoruba; etc. So the case of Isoko claiming to be different from Urhobo is NOT UNIQUE! They can claim all they want! Nobody can take that away from them but we know better! Isoko is as culturally Urhoboic as Okpe, Uvwie, Eruwa, Udu, etc are! Just because of senatorial arrangements, they believe they'd fare better being distinct than being associated with Urhobo. This, however, has not favoured them as Isokos are calamitously marginalised in Delta South.

Do not spear head divisions where none exists! Just leave your argument at the point that Isoko is ethnically different from Urhobo and I'll skeptically look away! But to argue that they are culturally and linguistically different is something I'd argue even in Heaven and Hell.!

Plz stop sYing trash isoko cannot nd has never bin a branch of urhobo just linguistic neighbours.isoko is the name of a people, their land, their language nd their culture nd stop trying to seprate erowha from isoko.if I were u I would stop bodering myself about isoko nd start worrying bout uvwie nd the okpes who in a few years time would become a fully independent nd autonomous as dey rightly should be
Lordadam I hail o

Proudly isoko
Isoko wadooooooo



Haters lyk fattymathy can jump into d ethiope river

DikeOha882:
I asked after this which you could not provide answer, so how come you are coming now to quote again? Anyway Omeruo is the one Igbos answer, likewise oyibo, eke, okpara, Thought you were denying that there are no Igbo elements in Urhobo and Isoko?

Ehen hw does dat increase the price of crude oil.now get this into ur thick skull the urhobos nd isokos have no relationship with the gorilla leg igbos nor do we have anything in common with lazy tiger faced yorubas

I don't reply subhumans

darfay:


Ehen hw does dat increase the price of crude oil.now get this into ur thick skull the urhobos nd isokos have no relationship with the gorilla leg igbos nor do we have anything in common with lazy tiger faced yorubas

DikeOha882:
I asked after this which you could not provide answer, so how come you are coming now to quote again? Anyway Omeruo is the one Igbos answer, likewise oyibo, eke, okpara, Thought you were denying that there are no Igbo elements in Urhobo and Isoko?

Those are loan words that could have either been borrowed from Urhobo by Igbos or the other way around. Don't assume Urhobo borrowed from Igbo!

darfay:


Plz stop sYing trash isoko cannot nd has never bin a branch of urhobo just linguistic neighbours.isoko is the name of a people, their land, their language nd their culture nd stop trying to seprate erowha from isoko.if I were u I would stop bodering myself about isoko nd start worrying bout uvwie nd the okpes who in a few years time would become a fully independent nd autonomous as dey rightly should be
Lordadam I hail o

Proudly isoko
Isoko wadooooooo



Haters lyk fattymathy can jump into d ethiope river

You are coming late to this argument! I believe you have a lot to read. Now go on and read all through the thread.


You are not a threat to me. I'd beat you hands down in any argument you may want to concoct.

uncjay:



Thank you....


I'm an Okun person. And I'm purely Yoruba, the truth be told Okun have suffer discrimination from her kins and kits(Yoruba)....it even worse that such things still persist in this age....I was born and brought up in the north, I speak Hausa more than Yoruba but I understand the language, in my school here in Lagos I found myself in our director's office for a meeting. Somehow she found out I couldn't speak Yoruba fluently and realize I was Okun, then she ask me never to step in her office again until I speak Yoruba better. Imaging that. This whole thing is political, I simply don't know what the Yorubas aim at achieving with this ooooo...

Bruh.... We your Kit and kit are not neglecting you that's why we make sure kwara and kogi must return to SW which is included in CONfab.... We are trying our best to bring you guys back home where you belong..

Classicool:

Bruh.... We your Kit and kit are not neglecting you that's why we make sure kwara and kogi must return to SW which is included in CONfab.... We are trying our best to bring you guys back home where you belong..

Speak for yourself o

Most Yorubas dont share the same sentiment! This thing is that most Yorubas believe that Okuns and Igbominas should be given appointments and other political incentives based on their affiliations with North Central Region. However, the North Central majority believe that Okuns and Igbominas should get incentives from their South West brothers. How then will they resolve this dilemma?

Furthermore, Okun and Igbomina Yoruba is seen by the typical Awori man, for example, as "impure" due to its influences from Hausa, Nupe, Igara, Tiv and the Islamic Religion. Hence, whenever they speak their own version of Yoruba, others tend to circle them out as being inferior in standard Yoruba communicative competence. This is another dilemma.

While it is good that some of you are embracing your Okun and Igbomina brothers, the lot have to do better to embrace them. They can only look up to the South West! The Northern folks will never allow an Okun or Igbomina man to "collect" what they see as theirs!

fratermathy:


Speak for yourself o

Most Yorubas dont share the same sentiment! This thing is that most Yorubas believe that Okuns and Igbominas should be given appointments and other political incentives based on their affiliations with North Central Region. However, the North Central majority believe that Okuns and Igbominas should get incentives from their South West brothers. How then will they resolve this dilemma?

Furthermore, Okun and Igbomina Yoruba is seen by the typical Awori man, for example, as "impure" due to its influences from Hausa, Nupe, Igara, Tiv and the Islamic Religion. Hence, whenever they speak their own version of Yoruba, others tend to circle them out as being inferior in standard Yoruba communicative competence. This is another dilemma.

While it is good that some of you are embracing your Okun and Igbomina brothers, the lot have to do better to embrace them. They can only look up to the South West! The Northern folks will never allow an Okun or Igbomina man to "collect" what they see as theirs!

Nobody is circling them out..... Most Socio-poltical/cultural group that are Yoruba are doing their best so as to bring them back to the SW... Because in the NC they regard them as minority....
And that's why we always include them in every of our pan-yoruba meetings....
And two Yoruba in SW never see them Northerner.... Though they may be in dilemma but they will surely overcome....