Vorpal:


It's just funny how people are unwilling to accept that Hodor was destined to end that way.
He was born so that Bran's journey will not be cut short abruptly. It's like a military saying, "the four stars adorned on a general's shoulder are earned through the blood of young soldiers who died in battle for victory to be sure".

It is a known fact, some people were born to be stepping stones for those who are to achieve victory.

It is not a known fact because you can't proove it.

gj22:


He warged into past Hodor (willys) and not the other way round. That's what messed up Hodor's mind.

I doubt this, since conceptually you can only warge into an animal (or understandably, someone with a fractured mind like Hodor) but not someone like Wilys.

To add to that;
A rich woman came, whose husband and sons had died defending the city walls. During the sack she had fled to her brother in fear. When she returned, she found her house had been turned into a brothel. The whores had bedecked themselves in her jewels and clothes. She wanted her house back, and her jewels. “They can keep the clothes,” she allowed. Dany granted her the jewels but ruled the "house was lost when she abandoned it".
Hypocritical much ? Too bad the woman doesnt have her own dragons or an army.

Vorpal:

It is a known fact, some people were born to be stepping stones for those who are to achieve victory.

My problem with this statement is that everyone achieves victory, just in different things and at different times. We can argue about the relevance of victories attained on a "larger-than-life" scale, but everyone is some stepping stone and everyone achieves some victory.

gj22:


He warged into past Hodor (willys) and not the other way round. That's what messed up Hodor's mind.

I had to copy this from my comment above. Read it then rewatch the scene. Then come back and drop a comment


Yes. And I think I smell an argument coming so I'll clear it up for you.
Bran hears Meera call to him while still observing the past with the three eyed raven. He then tell Bran to listen to his friend
Note: when Bran does warg into Hodor, its the 'present' Hordor that gets the 'white eyes' first. He carries Bran until he gets to the door. Its at this point while holding the door that the 'past' Hodor, who Is still clearly himself sees Bran and enters into that trance

So yes, Bran wargs into 'present' Hodor and not 'past' Hodor

oyetpel:
One of the CotF also used the spear, but it didn't work.

Probably the one wasn't obsidian.

Another extract
We see Bran with BR viewing the past as the NK, et al. descend on the weirwood. Bran then hears Meera yelling to him to warg into Hodor. He does so as we see Hodor in the present snap out of it and get to work to get to safety. Bran is still able to view the past where we see past Hodor going about his business completely unaffected.

kay9:


Yes, it is indeed a time paradox, but Bran started the events that led to the loop when he went "green-seeing" unsupervised. Well, Hodor has successfully held the door (as intended), so the loop has now closed on itself.

Is it a closed loop tho? I mean, I understand it being predestination paradox but not a closed time loop.


Case 1)
A closed loop is when a present event causes a past event to happen which in turn causes the present to happen. Like travelling back in time and giving your younger self your wristwatch. In this case, the question "where did the watch come from?" cannot be answered. This is a closed time loop.

Case 2)
If you travel back in time and go and kill John F Kennedy, this will only be a predestination paradox but not a closed time loop.

I think Hodor is case 2.

Just my opinion tho

Endy10:
While we're at it, I would really like to drop this.
Bran didn't warg into the younger Hodor first. Its was the action of warging into the 'present' Hodor that made the 'past' Hodor enter a trance and the whole 'hold the door' stuff came up
Thank you...Let the arguments begin

I have already responded to this but will do so again.

Wrong, he warged into past Hodor not the present. My reason is because past hodor could her/see the present but present Hodor could not see/hear the past.

Also, bran was already warged into the wierwood tree.

oyetpel:
Anyone notice something strange about Meera? What's she made of? A CotF used a weapon on a WW but the weapon couldn't hurt the WW. Whereas Meera used same weapon on the WW and the WW was iced and eliminated. What's Meera role in the wars to come? Is she Jon Snow's twin sister? Remember Jon Snow have also killed a WW albeit using a Valyrian steel.

Armor. The Cotf hit the armor.

Gbola5:


You learn to control your facial muscles and add some glamour to it, not to mention play a role. Takes more than just wearing the face.

The face will still work without all that hence the "you don't need training to wear the face.

Am talking about to literally wear the face.

InesQor:


I doubt this, since conceptually you can only warge into an animal (or understandably, someone with a fractured mind like Hodor) but not someone like Wilys.

Yeah but bran was connected to a very powerful tree that allowed him to see the past.

The Door (Game of Thrones) episode 5



At the Wall

Sansa (Sophie Turner) and Brienne (Gwendoline Christie) confront Littlefinger (Aiden Gillen) in Mole's Town, and question him about his decision to marry Sansa to Ramsay Bolton. He explains that he was ignorant of Ramsay's cruelty and begs for Sansa to forgive him while offering her the support of the Vale in her attempt to retake Winterfell. Sansa declines his help and orders him to return to the Vale. As he leaves, he reveals that her great-uncle, Brynden "Blackfish" Tully, has gathered the remainder of the Tully forces and retaken Riverrun.

Jon (Kit Harington), Davos (Liam Cunningham) and Sansa examine their odds of retaking Winterfell from the combined forces of the Boltons, Umbers and Karstarks. Jon points out that the other Northern houses, such as House Manderly of White Harbor and House Mormont of Bear Island, have not declared for the Boltons yet, and Sansa suggests that the Tullys will fight for the Starks as well, though she lies to Jon that she knows this from a raven sent to Winterfell while she was the Boltons' prisoner. As they prepare to leave Castle Black, Sansa orders Brienne to travel to the Riverlands and recruit Brynden. Jon, Davos, Sansa, Brienne, Melisandre (Carice van Houten), Tormund (Kristofer Hivju), and Podrick Payne (Daniel Portman) depart Castle Black.

In Vaes Dothrak

Jorah (Iain Glen) reveals his greyscale affliction to Daenerys (Emilia Clarke). He admits his love for her and begins to leave, but Daenerys emotionally orders him to find a cure and return to her so that he can be by her side when she conquers Westeros. Daenerys, Daario (Michiel Huisman) and the Dothraki depart Vaes Dothrak.

On the Iron Islands

At the Kingsmoot, Yara (Gemma Whelan) makes her claim to the Salt Throne. Doubt is placed on her as the Iron Islands have never had a queen and the last remaining male heir, Theon (Alfie Allen), has returned, but Theon silences the doubters by backing her claim. As the crowd begins to sway in Yara's favor, Euron Greyjoy (Pilou Asbæk) arrives and stakes his claim. When Yara accuses him of killing Balon, Euron freely admits to the murder, while denouncing him as having led the Ironborn to ruin. Euron promises to conquer Westeros by marrying Daenerys Targaryen and offering her the Iron Fleet, and is chosen as king. After his coronation by drowning and resuscitation, Euron decides to kill Theon and Yara, but discovers that they and their remaining loyalists have commandeered the best ships of the Iron Fleet and fled. Undaunted, Euron orders the entire populace of the Iron Islands to begin construction on a new fleet.

In Braavos

Arya (Maisie Williams) continues to spar with the Waif (Faye Marsay). Jaqen H'ghar (Tom Wlaschiha) tells Arya about the history of the Faceless Men, who originated as slaves in Valyria and killed their masters before migrating to Braavos. He then offers her another assignment, warning her that she will not be given a third chance and suggesting that she will be killed if she fails. Arya observes her target, an actress named Lady Crane (Essie Davis) who is playing Cersei Lannister in a play recounting the death of Robert Baratheon and the execution of Eddard Stark. Arya is noticeably discomforted by the play's portrayal of Ned as a dimwitted and power-hungry traitor, and begins to have misgivings after witnessing Lady Crane and her husband making a toast to their children backstage. Back at the House of Black and White, Arya questions Jaqen about the nature of her target, deducing that a rival actress playing Sansa Stark has taken out the contract, but Jaqen scolds her, reminding her that servants do not ask questions.

In Meereen

Tyrion (Peter Dinklage) and Varys (Conleth Hill) note that an uneasy but stable peace has fallen over Meereen since they forged their pact with the Masters. In order to preserve the peace and public support for Daenerys, Tyrion summons the red priestess Kinvara (Ania Bukstein), who says that she believes that Daenerys is the chosen one of the Lord of Light and declares that her priests will spread her message. Varys, dubious of the supernatural, interjects and points out that Melisandre also believed that Stannis was the chosen one before his defeat at Winterfell, but Kinvara silences him by recounting how he was castrated. She pledges her support, as she is confident that Daenerys is the chosen one.

Beyond the Wall

Bran (Isaac Hempstead Wright) and the Three-Eyed Raven (Max Von Sydow) observe a vision of the Children of The Forest creating the Night's King by impaling a captured soldier with a dragonglass dagger. Back in the cave, Bran confronts Leaf (Kae Alexander) about creating the White Walkers. She explains that she had no choice, as they were at war with the First Men.

Bran decides to observe a vision without the Three-Eyed Raven. Rather than transport himself to the past, Bran remains in the present, and witnesses a massive army of wights led by the Night's King (Vladimir Furdik), who touches him whilst in the vision. Bran awakens to find an icy scar on his wrist where the Night's King touched him, and the Three-Eyed Raven warns that he must leave, as the Night's King has marked him and is now able to enter the cave.

Bran and the Three-Eyed Raven enter a vision to transfer the Three-Eyed Raven's knowledge to Bran. As Meera Reed (Ellie Kendrick) prepares to leave, she notices the air becoming cold and investigates outside. She finds the army of wights, accompanied by the White Walkers. Meera runs inside to rescue Bran, killing a White Walker in the process, while the Children of the Forest attempt to hold back the wights as the cave is overrun. Bran, in the vision, witnesses his father Eddard leaving for the Vale of Arryn, as a young Hodor (Kristian Nairn) looks on. Bran hears Meera's cries from within the vision and the Three-Eyed Raven advises him to listen to her. Bran splits his consciousness by both remaining in the vision and simultaneously warging into Hodor in the present, whilst Summer is killed defending him from the wights. The Night's King enters the cave and kills the Three-Eyed Raven, causing him to disappear from the vision. As Bran, Meera and Hodor make their escape, Leaf sacrifices herself to hold back the wights. The group comes to a sealed door that Hodor barely manages to open. On the other side, Meera repeatedly orders Hodor to "hold the door" shut against the wights while they flee. While Meera escapes carrying Bran, Hodor is presumably killed by the wights. In the vision, Bran wargs into the young Hodor (then named Wyllis), which causes Wyllis to suffer a seizure. With Bran's consciousness inside his head, Wyllis hears the echoes of Meera's orders, and begins to slur the words "hold the door" over and over again until "Hodor" is all that he can say.

Endy10:

I don't think its dumb. Its actually genius. Time itself is infinite, which means the past, present and future are currently happening at the same time. Bran being a warg, was able to tap into that blackhole, that connects every aspect of time together. Therefore actions in anytime (past, present, future) affect themselves. Bran warging into Hodor in the present while having a connection with the past created a time warp where the actions of the present affect the past, hence 'the past hodor' feeling the effects. According to the bloodraven, the ink of the past is set and dry, because of this, the action of the present affecting the past is so intense that it literally broke 'past' Hodor's mind. Now due to the past being changed, it carries this effect to the future, which is the present(Hodor holding the door).

I felt a headache after typing this

In English, please?

One thing
If the name, Hodor came from that incident of "hold the door", how come he was called Hodor all along when the hold the door incident was yet to happen?

iAmCharis:
In English, please?

One thing
If the name, Hodor came from that incident of "hold the door", how come he was called Hodor all along when the hold the door incident was yet to happen?

just start from page 191...b4 u get to 195 u'll undastnd...bro

Ranchhoddas:
I disagree.His speech was quite good but definitely not the best.Tyrion's ''they say I'm half a man'' speech at the battle of Blackwater and Ser Alliser Thorne's speech when Mance Rayder attacked Castle Black were better.Ser Alliser's speech is the best in my opinion. ''Brothers, a hundred generations have defended this castle, she has never fallen and she will not fall tonight...''

Hahaha... Sir Aliser' s was sth..
I found myself pounding my chest wen he said "Castle Black will stand,;d Nyt watch will stand"

Bt I still maintain theon's at WINTERFELL takes it home...
"u HEAR dt? DATS d MATING CALL ll of D NORTHMEN
DEY WANT TO FVCK US.
WELL I AVNT HAD A GUD FVCK IN WEEKS.. AM READY 4 ONE.
WE DIE 2DAY BROS. WE DIE FRM A THOUSAND WOUNDS ;WITH SPEARS IN OUR GUTS N ARROWS IN OUR NECKS. BT DEY WILL KNW HOW LONG WE STOOD... WAT IS DEAD MAY NEVA DIE "

LONGER DAN DT THO... BT GOSH IT WAS FUNNY, WITTY N INSPIRING!!!

siempere:
just start from page 191...b4 u get to 195 u'll undastnd...bro

Yea, I do now. Thanks.

kay9:


You mean the one were he was thumped on the head and knocked out cold right afterwards?

Lol.. YEAH DT ONE...
AHH! N DUDE WAS OUT COLD D NXT SECOND...
STILL IT WAS A GUD SPEECH..
. DAGMAR N D REST ATTESTED 2 DT FACT ALRYT

oyetpel:
Aye

GALS WILL TINK OF US WIT DEIR LOVERS INSYD DEM.. LOL

When your an active member of this thread, buh your seriously avoiding it because your yet to watch Episode 5...

..That's right, that's me.

Vickyydera:
this is why I keep advising people to watch more of Hollywood movies, a time will come when you won't need subtitle. I don't use ear phone for long cos I have ear problem yet still I hear them well and understand their English.

it's more about my hearing not their English. I only depen on reading to understand.

Vorpal:


Who would you rather have on your side, a woman with 3 dragons and a better claim than anyone else to the iron throne?

Or a probable warden of the north?

Me thinks D best claimant n rytful owner is STANNIS...
DIS DAENERYS CLAIM IS KINDA RICKETTY...
IT'S MONARCHY 4 PETE'S SAKE..
HER DYNASTY WAS ENDED BY KING ROB N NED STARK'S REBELLION...
ROB STARTED A NEW DYNASTY BT DIDN'T HAVE SL ANY TRUEBORN SONS WIT CERSEI...
SINCE D CROWN MUST REMAIN WITHIN HOUSE BARATHEON N SEEING JEOFREY WAS A BASTERD BORN OF INCEST...
IT STANDS TO REASON DT STANNIS SHLD AV SUCCEEDED KING ROB...

InesQor:

My problem with this statement is that everyone achieves victory, just in different things and at different times. We can argue about the relevance of victories attained on a "larger-than-life" scale, but everyone is some stepping stone and everyone achieves some victory.

Then we can agree Hodor has achieved his own victory. No need blaming Bran

kay9:


You mean the one were he was thumped on the head and knocked out cold right afterwards?

One of most hilarious GOT moments. The guy commended the speech though.

Vickyydera:
what's with you guys and crying in episode 5? nothing to cry about pls.

Don't mind dem jarey.....

You cute tho oya kiss me

Vickyydera:
what's with you guys and crying in episode 5? nothing to cry about pls.

Funny enough the place that worked on my emotions was where Ser Jorah told Dany "it is true, i love you" and Dany requited his love commanding him to go find the cure anywhere in d world and come back.

That scene to me was epic! Reminds me of dem Indian films.

Lesson 2: Warging + Timetravel = Hodor Syndrome

ilynem:

As in eh? The hotness of this new red woman is something else. That red god surely has tastes

I feel like pounding the shyt outta her pvssy while i look into her green sexy eyeballs as she moans!

Gbola5:


You should respect another's opinion. You didnt give him reason to think otherwise. Try convincing next time.

Noted

blackjack21:


it's more about my hearing not their English. I only depen on reading to understand.

Am sorry to hear about your hearing. Hav you figured it out yet?

siempere:
Time wrap kinda....because Bran was in d past he wasn't close the d grown up Hodor....so he had to warg into the young Hodor beside him...to be able to control the older Hodor....datz why d younger Hodor was able to hear meera shouting Hold the door....so began his chanting...

It's still confusing kind of....is it dat Bran screwed young Hodor's mind for the future or wat?