4everGod:



Is there anywhere that the Bible documented that the people added grapes into the water? They only filled the cisterns with water and that was all that Jesus needed.

The alcoholic angle would have been right if fermentation or grapes were added.

You are the ignorant one here sorry.

the bible clearly said Jesus miraculously turned water to wine. from recorded history wine had only an original meaning which included alcohol.

did Jesus need grape before he turned the water to whatever he liked? are you saying that without grape brought forward Jesus cant turn water to any wine he likes? is that what you are saying?

the problem with you new Generation is that you are lost in history when it comes to Christianity, you think only the bible can give you knowledge, forgetting the bible was compiled among many other books. my friend aside the bible, there are many other books written by men of God which was not included. and many other historical accounts of past event. thats where the vatican got an edge.

thats enough

Deicide:

Oh so you are the one that was there?

They would not call it Wine if it's not Alcoholic Am not a kid bro all this your tactic and word play won't work on me!
Gen 9:21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. Gen 9:21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

If Noah knew what wine does what stops the people during jesus time to identify is as wine?

Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.


Jesus on the other hand was a drunk

Mat 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.


Then it's no longer called Wine but Grape juice

Smh...kids..

Despite all I have tried showing you...you still want to continue spewing doltishness...why is table wine not called grape juice? Can you tell me?

Especially since it has no alcoholic content why is it still called white wine and not white grape juice?

When Jesus turned WATER TO WINE not grape, water to wine the key alcoholic ingredient was missing and Jesus was the one who instructed them on what to do...HE SIMPLY ASKED THEM TO FILL THE VESSELS WITH WATER...HE NEVER EVER ASKED THEM TO INCLUDE GRAPES.

So again I ask you...why is non alcoholic table wine still called wine and not juice.

4everGod:



The wine which came from the water Jesus turned was not alcoholic.

For wine to be alcoholic the grapes must have been fermented and Jesus did not need grapes for the miracle all he needed was water so where did the alcoholic content come from?

NO GRAPES...NO FERMENTATION....MEANS NO ALCOHOLIC CONTENT.

Read and read and read some more so knowledge would hit you square in the face.

Like I said, if there's no alcohol, it's no wine.

Maybe you should ask Jesus or the Bible authors 'what the water really turned into' or 'why they chose to call it wine when according to you, it doesn't contain alcohol'.

4everGod:



Smh...kids..

Despite all I have tried showing you...you still want to continue spewing doltishness...why is table wine not called grape juice? Can you tell me?

Especially since it has no alcoholic content why is it still called white wine and not white grape juice?

When Jesus turned WATER TO WINE not grape, water to wine the key alcoholic ingredient was missing and Jesus was the one who instructed them on what to do...HE SIMPLY ASKED THEM TO FILL THE VESSELS WITH WATER...HE NEVER EVER ASKED THEM TO INCLUDE GRAPES.

So again I ask you...why is non alcoholic table wine still called wine and not juice.

what key ingredient? the meaning of "wine" was fermented grape(alcoholic). stop trying to twist it.

DeSepiero:


Like I said, if there's no alcohol, it's no wine.

Maybe you should ask Jesus or the Bible authors 'what the water really turned into' or 'why they chose to call it wine when according to you, it doesn't contain alcohol'.

same thing am trying to explain to him. these people are using modern connotative meaning of wine as non-alcoholic but forgotten that those days wine had one meaning. Alcoholic.

4everGod:


Despite all I have tried showing you...you still want to continue spewing doltishness...why is table wine not called grape juice? Can you tell me?

Because in the Bible Wine is Wine and it's always alcoholic!

Especially since it has no alcoholic content why is it still called white wine and not white grape juice?

Which one us white Wine.

When Jesus turned WATER TO WINE not grape, water to wine the key alcoholic ingredient was missing and Jesus was the one who instructed them on what to do...HE SIMPLY ASKED THEM TO FILL THE VESSELS WITH WATER...HE NEVER EVER ASKED THEM TO INCLUDE GRAPES.

So you mean jesus needed Grape to turn Water to alcoholic wine? like he needed flour to turn stone to bread?

Jesus on the other hand was a drunk

Mat 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

Winebibber
Noun (plural winebibbers) (archaic) A habitual drinker of alcohol, especially wine; a drunkard.

You have no excuse

Pidggin:


How many followers do they have today compared to Jesus followers? If Jesus is a scam how did he manage to become more far popular than the so-called original authentic versions?

It's at this point their so-called rational-mindset fails to work being overheated by hatred for God.

RoadsAndGreen:
what key ingredient? the meaning of "wine" was fermented grape(alcoholic). stop trying to twist it.

That is 4evergod for you He can twist anything he can even call black blue we know him here on NL

RoadsAndGreen:
same thing am trying to explain to him. these people are using modern connotative meaning of wine as non-alcoholic but forgotten that those[b] days wine had one meaning. Alcoholic[/b].

WRONG! That's why there are passages that mention strong drink. Wine also referred to the fruit of the Vine obtained from the wine presses.

RoadsAndGreen:
the bible clearly said Jesus miraculously turned water to wine. from recorded history wine had only an original meaning which included alcohol.

did Jesus need grape before he turned the water to whatever he liked? are you saying that without grape brought forward Jesus cant turn water to any wine he likes? is that what you are saying?

the problem with you new Generation is that you are lost in history when it comes to Christianity, you think only the bible can give you knowledge, forgetting the bible was compiled among many other books. my friend aside the bible, there are many other books written by men of God which was not included. and many other historical accounts of past event. thats where the vatican got an edge.

thats enough

I really see no point arguing with you because clearly you wish to sell your catholic views to me which I am not buying so sell it to someone else...

You need to first find out what word the word WINE was translated from in greek when translating thag passage then come back and tell me your catholic views again.

I abhor ignorance and you sir are ignorant.

RoadsAndGreen:
what key ingredient? the meaning of "wine" was fermented grape(alcoholic). stop trying to twist it.

Wine in the days of Christ also meant juices or grape juice and like I said you need to look up the greek word for Wine when that scripture was being translated and then research that.


Resist being ignorant or it will be your downfall.

Deicide:

Because in the Bible Wine is Wine and it's always alcoholic!


Which one us white Wine.

So you mean jesus needed Grape to turn Water to alcoholic wine? like he needed flour to turn stone to bread?

Jesus on the other hand was a drunk

Mat 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

Winebibber
Noun (plural winebibbers) (archaic) A habitual drinker of alcohol, especially wine; a drunkard.

You have no excuse

Ahhh now I see why you are angry. .

But wait how has all this bitterness or anger directly impacted or frustrated Christianity and her growth...you are only frustrating yourself....

Oh so now Jesus is not only a liar but also a winebibber....oh wait while at it throw in fornicator and murderer and thief as well...lol

But guess what..He is my Lord and Savior and I Love all He is to me and while you were busy typing your rant, somewhere on this planet another 100 or more people Just accepted Jesus as their own Lord and savior as well... Enjoy your rants.

Scholar8200:
WRONG! That's why there are passages that mention strong drink. Wine also referred to the fruit of the Vine obtained from the wine presses.

Stop lying for jesus You no day Taya? Lies everyday?

Mat 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
Mat 27:34 They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted [thereof], he would not drink.

Vinegar
noun(uncountable) A sour liquidformed by the fermentation ofalcohol used as a condiment orpreservative; a dilute solution ofacetic acid.

Scholar8200:
WRONG! That's why there are passages that mention strong drink. Wine also referred to the fruit of the Vine obtained from the wine presses.

in Leveticus Aaron and his sons were forbidden to take wine before going near the tabernacle. why? if thats not achoholic then why?

Deicide:

That is 4evergod for you He can twist anything he can even call black blue we know him here on NL

Oh and here is Eyehategod the chief liar for Atheism. ..

The one I fondly call the nonsensical one. I see your Eyehategod moniker has been banned again for lack of self control with your frequent outbursts in anger....

Jesus matter no go give you high blood pressure.

Scholar8200:
WRONG! That's why there are passages that mention strong drink. Wine also referred to the fruit of the Vine obtained from the wine presses.

show me a verse where the bible literately condemned drinking of wine

Scholar8200:
WRONG! That's why there are passages that mention strong drink. Wine also referred to the fruit of the Vine obtained from the wine presses.

proverb 23 verse 20. Do not be among those who drink too much wine,+
Among those who gorge themselves on meat, alcoholic or not? yes alcoholic, but it didnt condemn it. it said too much. anywhere strong drink is mentioned wine is also mentioned

RoadsAndGreen:
in Leveticus Aaron and his sons were forbidden to take wine before going near the tabernacle. why? if thats not achoholic then why?

If Aaron and his sons were forbidden frm wine because of the tabernacle then is it Jesus who was the embodiment of God who would then approve and consume this same wine?

Your comment justifies the positions of Jesus regarding alcoholic wine. No priest is allowed to defile his body while in Gods presence. Jesus was the High priest so how then would he break the same rules guiding the priesthood?

Again I say ignorance is not someting you should be proud of. Eschew it.

Scholar8200:
WRONG! That's why there are passages that mention strong drink. Wine also referred to the fruit of the Vine obtained from the wine presses.

proverb 23 verse 20. Do not be among those who drink too much wine,+
Among those who gorge themselves on meat, Galasians 5 verse 21. envy, drunkenness,+ wild parties,* and things like these.+ I am forewarning you about these things, the same way I already warned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom.... drunkiness but not drinking.

4everGod:


Wine in the days of Christ also meant juices or grape juice and like I said you need to look up the greek word for Wine when that scripture was being translated and then research that.


Resist being ignorant or it will be your downfall.

It is OK to lie for Jesus But jesus can speak for himself!
Mat 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into now bottles, and both are preserved.
Mat 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
Mar 2:22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old [wine] straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.
Joh 2:9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

RoadsAndGreen:
show me a verse where the bible literately condemned drinking of wine

29
Who has woe? Who has sorrow?
Who has strife? Who has complaining?
Who has wounds without cause?
Whose eyes are red and dim?
30
Those who linger long over wine,
Those who go to taste mixed wine.
31
Do not look at wine when it is red,
When it sparkles in the glass,
When it goes down smoothly.
32
At the last it bites like a serpent
And stings like a viper.
33
Your [drunken] eyes will see strange things
And your mind will utter perverse things [untrue things, twisted things].
34
And you will be [as unsteady] as one who lies down in the middle of the sea,
And [as vulnerable to disaster] as one who lies down on the top of a ship’s mast, saying,
35
“They struck me, but I was not hurt!
They beat me, but I did not feel it!
When will I wake up?
I will seek more wine.
Proverbs 23:29-35

You dont need anyone to tell you this is referring to the intoxicating one

21 envy, [size=18pt]drunkenness,[/size] riotous behavior, and other things like these. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, [size=18pt]that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God[/size].
Galatians 5:21

Otherwise they drink and forget the law and its decrees,
And pervert the rights and justice of all the afflicted.
Proverbs 31:5 This was written to a king and it applies to all who have the Word. That is why the call to sobriety rings continuously in the Bible.

Can we take just a little then? NO

Veterans will tell you that a green horn will be intoxicated when he takes what they call moderate!So, how do you define moderate? Impossible!

4everGod:


If Aaron and his sons were forbidden frm wine because of the tabernacle then is it Jesus who was the embodiment of God who would then approve and consume this same wine?

Your comment justifies the positions of Jesus regarding alcoholic wine. No priest is allowed to defile his body while in Gods presence. Jesus was the High priest so how then would he break the same rules guiding the priesthood?

Again I say ignorance is not something you should be proud of. Eschew it.

they were not forbidden to take wine. but forbidden to take wine before entering the tabernacle. two different scenarios. take note

4everGod:



Oh and here is Eyehategod the chief liar for Atheism. ..

Tank you

The one I fondly call the nonsensical one. I see your Eyehategod moniker has been banned again for lack of self control with your frequent outbursts in anger....

Everyone here is 4everGod he has never been banned b4 on NL on 4everGod1 4everGod2 4everGod3 4everGod4 and 4everGodn You know why cause he is a Saint...

Jesus matter no go give you high blood pressure.

Character speaks for oneself it doesn't matter what you think

Scholar8200:

29
Who has woe? Who has sorrow?
Who has strife? Who has complaining?
Who has wounds without cause?
Whose eyes are red and dim?
30
Those who linger long over wine,
Those who go to taste mixed wine.
31
Do not look at wine when it is red,
When it sparkles in the glass,
When it goes down smoothly.
32
At the last it bites like a serpent
And stings like a viper.
33
Your [drunken] eyes will see strange things
And your mind will utter perverse things [untrue things, twisted things].
34
And you will be [as unsteady] as one who lies down in the middle of the sea,
And [as vulnerable to disaster] as one who lies down on the top of a ship’s mast, saying,
35
“They struck me, but I was not hurt!
They beat me, but I did not feel it!
When will I wake up?
I will seek more wine.
Proverbs 23:29-35

You dont need anyone to tell you this is referring to the intoxicating one

21 envy, [size=18pt]drunkenness,[/size] riotous behavior, and other things like these. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, [size=18pt]that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God[/size].
Galatians 5:21

Otherwise they drink and forget the law and its decrees,
And pervert the rights and justice of all the afflicted.
Proverbs 31:5 This was written to a king and it applies to all who have the Word. That is why the call to sobriety rings continuously in the Bible.

Can we take just a little then? NO

Veterans will tell you that a green horn will be intoxicated when he takes what they call moderate!So, how do you define moderate? Impossible!

Good. now how does drunkenness equals drinking? if i can drink and not get drunk then where have i gone wrong according to that passage?


and i can as well say the passage is talking about non-alcoholic wine and not the alcoholic one. using your own type of logic. you are now comfortable assuming this particular verse is talking about the non-alcoholic wine lolz nice one

Scholar8200:

29
Who has woe? Who has sorrow?
Who has strife? Who has complaining?
Who has wounds without cause?
Whose eyes are red and dim?
30
Those who linger long over wine,
Those who go to taste mixed wine.
31
Do not look at wine when it is red,
When it sparkles in the glass,
When it goes down smoothly.
32
At the last it bites like a serpent
And stings like a viper.
33
Your [drunken] eyes will see strange things
And your mind will utter perverse things [untrue things, twisted things].
34
And you will be [as unsteady] as one who lies down in the middle of the sea,
And [as vulnerable to disaster] as one who lies down on the top of a ship’s mast, saying,
35
“They struck me, but I was not hurt!
They beat me, but I did not feel it!
When will I wake up?
I will seek more wine.
Proverbs 23:29-35

You dont need anyone to tell you this is referring to the intoxicating one

21 envy, [size=18pt]drunkenness,[/size] riotous behavior, and other things like these. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, [size=18pt]that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God[/size].
Galatians 5:21

Otherwise they drink and forget the law and its decrees,
And pervert the rights and justice of all the afflicted.
Proverbs 31:5 This was written to a king and it applies to all who have the Word. That is why the call to sobriety rings continuously in the Bible.

Can we take just a little then? NO

Veterans will tell you that a green horn will be intoxicated when he takes what they call moderate!So, how do you define moderate? Impossible!

See as them day lie for Jesus without shame

RoadsAndGreen:
proverb 23 verse 20. Do not be among those who drink too much wine,+
Among those who gorge themselves on meat, Galasians 5 verse 21. envy, drunkenness,+ wild parties,* and things like these.+ I am forewarning you about these things, the same way I already warned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom.... drunkiness but not drinking.

So when does a newcomer cross the line? Answer!

An old timer takes 5 bottles and is still normal,a new comer takes a glass and he is intoxicated, what then? It is forbidden totally the same way by which looking to lust is condemned as adultery.

Deicide:

It is OK to lie for Jesus But jesus can speak for himself!
Mat 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into now bottles, and both are preserved.
Mat 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
Mar 2:22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old [wine] straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.
Joh 2:9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Eyehategod when you lie save some for the next 7 days. Try not to tell your lies for the week in one day.

I am sure you have no clue what the scriptures you just pasted were talking about if you did you would be facepalming yourself black and blue.

I am not going to debate it with you as your nonsensical demeanour is well known here on NL and everyone knows your are a jibber and a fibber so I will cut you some slack this time b4 I provoke you again and you explode in your usual manner in anger and call me all sorts of names and get this moniker also suspended.

RoadsAndGreen:
Good. now how does drunkenness equals drinking? if i can drink and not get drunk then where have i gone wrong according to that passage?

Was it like that the first day you did so?

4everGod:


Eyehategod when you lie save some for the next 7 days. Try not to tell your lies for the week in one day.

I am sure you have no clue what the scriptures you just pasted were talking about if you did you would be facepalming yourself black and blue.

I am not going to debate it with you as your nonsensical demeanour is well known here on NL and everyone knows your are a jibber and a fibber so I will cut you some slack this time b4 I provoke you again and you explode in your usual manner in anger and call me all sorts of names and get this moniker also suspended.

he doesnt seem to have much to say so I am letting him say on without letting him.

Scholar8200:
So when does a newcomer cross the line? Answer!

An old timer takes 5 bottles and is still normal,a new comer takes a glass and he is intoxicated, what then? It is forbidden totally the same way by which looking to lust is condemned as adultery.

none of my business. i didnt invent that passage my friend. and that clearly did not condemn drinking of wine but over-drinking of wine. so

RoadsAndGreen:
Good. now how does drunkenness equals drinking? if i can drink and not get drunk then where have i gone wrong according to that passage?


and i can as well say the passage is talking about non-alcoholic wine and not the alcoholic one. using your own type of logic. you are now comfortable assuming this particular verse is talking about the non-alcoholic wine lolz nice one

Have you ever seen non-alcoholics produce the results stated up there?

RoadsAndGreen:
they were not forbidden to take wine. but forbidden to take wine before entering the tabernacle. two different scenarios. take note

You obviously do not understand yourself. Aaron and sons were off and on in the tabernacle...JESUS IS THE EVERLASTING TABERNACLE...

There is no off and on with Him he is always with God and He in God and God in Him so if Aaron and sons could drink outside but not within then jesus couldn't do same at all because he is the tabernacle.