brocab:
Hi Uben Merry Christmas-and I hope you had a happy new year..
Maybe the protestant separated themselves from the Catholic Church with good reason, have you ever thought what this good reason is?
The Holy spirit-directed the protestants out..
Haven't you wondered why there are so many Churches-that don't follow Catholicism? Do you believe the spirit of the Lord talks with people, "Have you ever heard from the Lord Uben?
You know uben-As a child I never knew the Lord-but now I am grateful I have found the Lord-where in the Church I couldn't find Him-but out of the Church I found Him.
This is not about the Church-this is about Christ and how many Christians claim to know Christ-and yet have walked away from Him. Who is in charge of the church? Jesus Christ is! It is His church; He bought it with His blood. The local church does not belong to the pastor, or the elders, or to the congregation.
It belongs to Jesus Christ who alone is the Head (Ephesians 1:20-23).
No one dare proclaim, “This is my church!” It doesn’t belong to any of us. It belongs to Christ the Lord. Never in the New Testament are the leaders of the local church referred to as “head” of the church.
Neither is the church viewed as a democratic organization, where the members are free to vote their own minds on issues.
The key question in church government is not, “What is the mind of the members?” but, “What is the mind of Christ?”
The Catholic Church focus only on how great their Church stands-how great is the Pope-and he is God on earth?
{2 Corinthians 2:13-15}1 had no peace in my spirit, because I did not find my brother Titus there. So I said goodbye to them and went on to Macedonia. "But thanks be to God, who always leads us triumphantly as captives in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of Him. "For we are to God the sweet aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing.
Maybe Uben you should be asking "who" separated the protestants out from the Catholic Church..

actually I know who told the Protestants to dissent and form factions, the Bible tells me.

gal 5:19


Now the deeds of the flesh are evident,
which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,
outbursts of anger, disputes, DISSENSIONS, FACTIONS.

the father of those things is the devil.


in fact the Bible warned Christians against the schisms which are the birth place of Protestantism.

1 Corinthians 1:10
Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our
Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that
there be no divisions among you, but that you be
made complete in the same mind and in the same
judgment.

the Bible warned Christians to be on alert as regards these schism brewers.


Romans 16:17
Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those
who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary
to the teaching which you learned, and turn away
from them.




in fact Jesus formed the Church as his body to prevent such divisions

he has so composed the body,
giving more abundant honor to that member which
lacked, so that there may be no division in the
body, but that the members may have the same
care for one another.


so don't let any one tell you that it was the work of the holy spirit.

Luther man his own Church because he had a guilty conscience and king Henry founded the Anglican Church cause he wanted to marry his concubine, from there all others started...

I didn't come to Christ because of Martin Luther, nor because of some Church building, I come because God is faithful He had called me to have fellowship with His Son Jesus Christ.
The Church building is all it is, the body is the people of believers who come in as 'one with Christ.
{Galatians 5:19-25} Are the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,outbursts of anger, disputes, and those who practices such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the deed of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
These are what I search for in a believer, I judge them by their fruit, for if they live according to the flesh they will die, but if by the Spirit you will put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
Not everyone that claims to be Christian, are living according to the Word of God, Christ like! {So don't let any one tell you that it was the work of the holy spirit unless we see the evidence} {1 John 5:3} In fact for this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments, and His commandments are not grieves.
Between the Protestants and the Catholic's, God test us all?
Did you read about the Parable of the Sower, Jesus identifies the ones who fall away as those who receive the seed of God’s Word with joy, but, as soon as a time of testing comes along, they fall away.
James says that the testing of our faith develops perseverance, which leads to maturity in our walk with God {James 1:3–4} James goes on to say that testing is a blessing, because, when the testing is over and we have “stood the test,” we will “receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him” {James 1:12}
Testing comes from our heavenly Father who works all things together for good for those who love Him and who are called to be the children of God {Romans 8:28}
When we ask why God tests us or allows us to be tested, we are admitting that testing does indeed come from Him. When God tests His children, He does a valuable thing. David sought God’s testing, asking Him to examine his heart and mind and see that they were true to Him {Psalm 26:2; 139:23} When Abram was tested by God in the matter of sacrificing Isaac, Abram obeyed {Hebrews 11:17–19} and showed to all the world that he is the father of faith {Romans 4:16} In both the Old and New Testaments, the words translated “test” mean “to prove by trial.” Therefore, when God tests His children, His purpose is to prove that our faith is real.
Not that God needs to prove it to Himself since He knows all things, but He is proving to us that our faith is real, that we are truly His children, and that no trial will overcome our faith.
The point I am making here, isn't about a Church building, its the body that needs testing, By their fruit we will know them.. But it doesn't end there, I myself test myself with the Lord, I want to know my walk with Him is done in righteousness.
"I watch people all the time who claim to be Christian-and to be honest-many of them won't even see the kingdom of Heaven, we just need to turn the page and look a prosperity preacher preaches about Money in tithes and offerings, and the many followers, who call themselves Christians, and are not, What they claim to be, isn't always the truth, it doesn't matter what organisation they are from, their hearts are so far from Him, they don't know Him "And most of them are dried up seeds along the roadside, they are not connected to the vine, and their branches have falling off. "Test yourselves-and ask the Lord where you stand with Him..

Ubenedictus:
actually I know who told the Protestants to dissent and form factions, the Bible tells me.

gal 5:19


Now the deeds of the flesh are evident,
which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,
outbursts of anger, disputes, DISSENSIONS, FACTIONS.

the father of those things is the devil.


in fact the Bible warned Christians against the schisms which are the birth place of Protestantism.

1 Corinthians 1:10
Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our
Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that
there be no divisions among you, but that you be
made complete in the same mind and in the same
judgment.

the Bible warned Christians to be on alert as regards these schism brewers.


Romans 16:17
Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those
who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary
to the teaching which you learned, and turn away
from them.




in fact Jesus formed the Church as his body to prevent such divisions

he has so composed the body,
giving more abundant honor to that member which
lacked, so that there may be no division in the
body, but that the members may have the same
care for one another.


so don't let any one tell you that it was the work of the holy spirit.

Luther man his own Church because he had a guilty conscience and king Henry founded the Anglican Church cause he wanted to marry his concubine, from there all others started...

brocab:
I didn't come to Christ because of Martin Luther, nor because of some Church building, I come because God is faithful He had called me to have fellowship with His Son Jesus Christ.

you may claim not to know Luther but you are his intellectual child, a follower and perpetuator/continuer of his schism

The Church building is all it is, the body is the people of believers who come in as 'one with Christ.

nobody is talking about a church building, we are talking about the body of Christ with its divinely established leadership and its historic salvific teaching, which have been broken down into contradictory sects that can't even agree on who Jesus is. that is what a schism is and that is why the Bible warns against it and even reject it as sinful.

{Galatians 5:19-25}[/colr] Are the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,outbursts of anger, disputes, and those who practices such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the deed of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
[color#00099]These are what I search for in a believer, I judge them by their fruit, for if they live according to the flesh they will die, but if by the Spirit you will put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

please quote it completely
gal 5:19
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident,
which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,
outbursts of anger, disputes, DISSENSIONS,
FACTIONS.
if a believer has put the Church into faction and some other believer are following him then they are walking in the flesh not the spirit.

Not everyone that claims to be Christian, are living according to the Word of God, Christ like! [color=#006600]{So don't let any one tell you that it was the work of the holy spirit unless we see the evidence} {1 John 5:3} In fact for this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments, and His commandments are not grieves.
Between the Protestants and the Catholic's, God test us all?

I have see both Catholic and Protestants and it is you Protestants who have fractioned yourself into 30,000 contradictory denominations against the wishes and teachings of the Bible that says there should be no factions.

Did you read about the Parable of the Sower, Jesus identifies the ones who fall away as those who receive the seed of God’s Word with joy, but, as soon as a time of testing comes along, they fall away.
[color=#000099]James says that the testing of our faith develops perseverance, which leads to maturity in our walk with God {James 1:3–4} James goes on to say that testing is a blessing, because, when the testing is over and we have “stood the test,” we will “receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him” {James 1:12}
Testing comes from our heavenly Father who works all things together for good for those who love Him and who are called to be the children of God {Romans 8:28}
When we ask why God tests us or allows us to be tested, we are admitting that testing does indeed come from Him. When God tests His children, He does a valuable thing. David sought God’s testing, asking Him to examine his heart and mind and see that they were true to Him {Psalm 26:2; 139:23} When Abram was tested by God in the matter of sacrificing Isaac, Abram obeyed {Hebrews 11:17–19} and showed to all the world that he is the father of faith {Romans 4:16} In both the Old and New Testaments, the words translated “test” mean “to prove by trial.” Therefore, when God tests His children, His purpose is to prove that our faith is real.
Not that God needs to prove it to Himself since He knows all things, but He is proving to us that our faith is real, that we are truly His children, and that no trial will overcome our faith.
The point I am making here, isn't about a Church building, its the body that needs testing, By their fruit we will know them.. But it doesn't end there, I myself test myself with the Lord, I want to know my walk with Him is done in righteousness.

and yet when you Protestants are tested you fraction into 30,000 fraction just as God says the flesh behave.

"I watch people all the time who claim to be Christian-and to be honest-many of them won't even see the kingdom of Heaven, we just need to turn the page and look a prosperity preacher preaches about Money in tithes and offerings, and the many followers, who call themselves Christians, and are not, What they claim to be, isn't always the truth, it doesn't matter what organisation they are from, their hearts are so far from Him, they don't know Him "And most of them are dried up seeds along the roadside, they are not connected to the vine, and their branches have falling off. "Test yourselves-and ask the Lord where you stand with Him.. [/color]

oh I see people every day who don't live the Christian life but more so I see denominations who are founded in the flesh for they are only contradictory factions

gal 5:19
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident,
which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,
outbursts of anger, disputes, DISSENSIONS,
FACTIONS.

Uben Martin Luther doesn't call you into the kingdom of God-his just a man, that walked away from your Church, it's not Martin Luther we bow down too. I don't follow Martin Luther, I follow Christ. We already know the answer to you Uben-you don't follow after Christ, you follow after the Pope...
This is the flesh>Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, if you are preferring this to Martin Luther because he walked away from the Church-and you believe Pope Martin Luther caused the Church to pull away-than thank God for that, "I am not complaining...
Martin Luther would have to be a man God called him out of the Catholic Church, Martin Luther must be a man like Moses or a man like Elisha, or John, God calls people all the time, and Martin Luther would have to be a man of faith, studying the scriptures, and learning the truth.
God calls us into fellowship with His Son Jesus Christ {1 Corinthians 1:9} Not Martin Luther-not the Pope-it is God who calls. Martin Luther did not stand at the door when I had received Christ into my life.
This is the problem with the Catholic Church-God calls His people out-and the Church blames Martin Luther. Uben because Martin Luther caused fiction within the Catholic Church-does this mean the Pope is the head of the Catholic people, and if he stirs the bowl the wrong way, the Church will rage into immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, and its the Pope's fault...

Ubenedictus:
you may claim not to know Luther but you are his intellectual child, a follower and perpetuator/continuer of his schism
nobody is talking about a church building, we are talking about the body of Christ with its divinely established leadership and its historic salvific teaching, which have been broken down into contradictory sects that can't even agree on who Jesus is. that is what a schism is and that is why the Bible warns against it and even reject it as sinful.
please quote it completely
gal 5:19
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident,
which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,
outbursts of anger, disputes, DISSENSIONS,
FACTIONS.
if a believer has put the Church into faction and some other believer are following him then they are walking in the flesh not the spirit.
I have see both Catholic and Protestants and it is you Protestants who have fractioned yourself into 30,000 contradictory denominations against the wishes and teachings of the Bible that says there should be no factions.
and yet when you Protestants are tested you fraction into 30,000 fraction just as God says the flesh behave.


oh I see people every day who don't live the Christian life but more so I see denominations who are founded in the flesh for they are only contradictory factions

gal 5:19
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident,
which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,
outbursts of anger, disputes, DISSENSIONS,
FACTIONS.

brocab:
Uben Martin Luther doesn't call you into the kingdom of God-his just a man, that walked away from your Church, it's not Martin Luther we bow down too. I don't follow Martin Luther, I follow Christ. We already know the answer to you Uben-you don't follow after Christ, you follow after the Pope...
This is the flesh>Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, if you are preferring this to Martin Luther because he walked away from the Church-and you believe Pope Martin Luther caused the Church to pull away-than thank God for that, "I am not complaining...
Martin Luther would have to be a man God called him out of the Catholic Church, Martin Luther must be a man like Moses or a man like Elisha, or John, God calls people all the time, and Martin Luther would have to be a man of faith, studying the scriptures, and learning the truth.
God calls us into fellowship with His Son Jesus Christ {1 Corinthians 1:9} Not Martin Luther-not the Pope-it is God who calls. Martin Luther did not stand at the door when I had received Christ into my life.
This is the problem with the Catholic Church-God calls His people out-and the Church blames Martin Luther. Uben because Martin Luther caused fiction within the Catholic Church-does this mean the Pope is the head of the Catholic people, and if he stirs the bowl the wrong way, the Church will rage into immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, and its the Pope's fault...

God doesn't call people to form factions in the Church that isn't the work of the HOLY spirit, it is the work of the flesh a satanic enterprise.

gal 5:19
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident,
which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,
outbursts of anger, disputes, DISSENSIONS,
FACTIONS.




how many denominations do you guys now have?

I do understand where you are going with this Uben, Quote:{God doesn't call people to form factions in the Church that isn't the work of the HOLY spirit, it is the work of the flesh a satanic enterprise} "But it isn't just some denominations you believe is causing problems throughout the Church-firstly are they truly saved? Is the Holy Spirit working inside every Man, Woman and Child. "No" this is why the Church have {Galatians 5:19} within..
Receiving God is renewing your heart, mind and soul..
But Paul said In {1 Thessalonians 2:13-14} And we continually thank God that in receiving the word of God from us, you did not accept it as the word of men, but as the true word of God. And this is the word which is now at work in you who believe. For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Judea that are in Christ Jesus. You suffered from your own countrymen the very things they suffered from the Jews. "These are men that believed" and not every man that claims Christ believes, not even in Rome..
We find in every Church-theirs only the very few that believe in Christ, not everyone in Church believes, The Church today are full of unsaved people who haven't the slightest idea who God is, they go to Church because of a family tradition, or they feel good going to Church on Sunday, people come to Church because the Pastor, Priest told them they will go into heaven because they are good people, some believe by works helping a little old lady cross the road, God rewards them of their good deeds-some believe priest can save them by their sinful confession.
Some believe they don't need Christ-because they were told, Christ isn't the only way into Heaven, some believe just by works gives them a place in Heaven, And their are those waiting to be paid"Mammon comes before God-most don't even study the scriptures, Jesus said by their fruit we will know them. But all in all most people don't know God, visa versa, but they will continual to call themselves Christian.
In most Churches we find pastor priest are men pleases-these chase after the material things, rather then chase after the spiritual things of God. We have many coming to Christ everyday by preachers who haven't the slightest idea who Christ is, just say this simple prayer, and you are saved.
Peter preachers it this way, "Repent and believe and be baptised for the remissions of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit in Jesus name. {Acts 2:38}
Pastors priest are not teaching their flocks in Christ-people are leaving just as quick as they entered into the Church, most people aren't saved, because they come and they go, some are taught once saved always saved, No one is saved without the Holy Spirit-working in us and changing us-once God does the work in us He continual's until the end. Everyone can say they believe, the Mormons believe, the Jehovah Witness believe, the Catholic's believe, these 3 have written their own bibles because they believe the bible is not enough to fill God's Word, and added other books to the scriptures.
{1 Corinthians 12:1-3} Brothers and sisters, I want you to know about the gifts of the Holy Spirit. You know that at one time you were unbelievers. You were somehow drawn away to worship statues of gods that couldn’t even speak. So I want you to know that no one who is speaking with the help of God’s Spirit says, “May Jesus be cursed.” And without the help of the Holy Spirit no one can say, “Jesus is Lord.…
Sadly people have made a mockery out from God-coming to Christ with the wrong attitude, did you know/many are called, but few are chosen, this is written because by their fruit we will know them.
I myself don't fellowship in any Church-to be honest I felt I was backsliding in them, I have had more teaching and more understanding from the Lord, just by studying at home, Uben this forum have taught me a lot about myself and the God I so much love and serve.

Ubenedictus:


God doesn't call people to form factions in the Church that isn't the work of the HOLY spirit, it is the work of the flesh a satanic enterprise.

gal 5:19
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident,
which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,
outbursts of anger, disputes, DISSENSIONS,
FACTIONS.




how many denominations do you guys now have?

{Romans 8:1-2, 8:12-27} There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
{Verse 12} Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. {V 13} For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. {V 14} For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. {V 15} For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” {V 16} The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
{V 17} and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. From Suffering to Glory {V 18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. {V 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.
{V 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; {V 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. {V 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. {V 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. {V 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? {V 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
{V 26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us[b] with groaning which cannot be uttered. {V 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

brocab:
I do understand where you are going with this Uben, Quote:{God doesn't call people to form factions in the Church that isn't the work of the HOLY spirit, it is the work of the flesh a satanic enterprise} "But it isn't just some denominations you believe is causing problems throughout the Church-firstly are they truly saved? Is the Holy Spirit working inside every Man, Woman and Child. "No" this is why the Church have {Galatians 5:19} within..
Receiving God is renewing your heart, mind and soul..
But Paul said In {1 Thessalonians 2:13-14} And we continually thank God that in receiving the word of God from us, you did not accept it as the word of men, but as the true word of God. And this is the word which is now at work in you who believe. For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Judea that are in Christ Jesus. You suffered from your own countrymen the very things they suffered from the Jews. "These are men that believed" and not every man that claims Christ believes, not even in Rome..
We find in every Church-theirs only the very few that believe in Christ, not everyone in Church believes, The Church today are full of unsaved people who haven't the slightest idea who God is, they go to Church because of a family tradition, or they feel good going to Church on Sunday, people come to Church because the Pastor, Priest told them they will go into heaven because they are good people, some believe by works helping a little old lady cross the road, God rewards them of their good deeds-some believe priest can save them by their sinful confession.
Some believe they don't need Christ-because they were told, Christ isn't the only way into Heaven, some believe just by works gives them a place in Heaven, And their are those waiting to be paid"Mammon comes before God-most don't even study the scriptures, Jesus said by their fruit we will know them. But all in all most people don't know God, visa versa, but they will continual to call themselves Christian.
In most Churches we find pastor priest are men pleases-these chase after the material things, rather then chase after the spiritual things of God. We have many coming to Christ everyday by preachers who haven't the slightest idea who Christ is, just say this simple prayer, and you are saved.
Peter preachers it this way, "Repent and believe and be baptised for the remissions of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit in Jesus name. {Acts 2:38}
Pastors priest are not teaching their flocks in Christ-people are leaving just as quick as they entered into the Church, most people aren't saved, because they come and they go, some are taught once saved always saved, No one is saved without the Holy Spirit-working in us and changing us-once God does the work in us He continual's until the end. Everyone can say they believe, the Mormons believe, the Jehovah Witness believe, the Catholic's believe, these 3 have written their own bibles because they believe the bible is not enough to fill God's Word, and added other books to the scriptures.
{1 Corinthians 12:1-3} Brothers and sisters, I want you to know about the gifts of the Holy Spirit. You know that at one time you were unbelievers. You were somehow drawn away to worship statues of gods that couldn’t even speak. So I want you to know that no one who is speaking with the help of God’s Spirit says, “May Jesus be cursed.” And without the help of the Holy Spirit no one can say, “Jesus is Lord.…
Sadly people have made a mockery out from God-coming to Christ with the wrong attitude, did you know/many are called, but few are chosen, this is written because by their fruit we will know them.
I myself don't fellowship in any Church-to be honest I felt I was backsliding in them, I have had more teaching and more understanding from the Lord, just by studying at home, Uben this forum have taught me a lot about myself and the God I so much love and serve.

where I. am going is clear.
denominations are a biblical taboo, a sin.
anybody who promotes such system is promoting an anti biblical system.

any one who claim to be in Christ and yet promote denominations is walking in the flesh.

gal 5:19
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident,
which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,
outbursts of anger, disputes, DISSENSIONS,
FACTIONS.

Thanks for you honesty Uben-so the Catholic Church demonstrates there Church is a first denominational Church God had built in Rome? and you believe-everyone who claims to promote their Church lets say AOG-COC any denomination name like the Catholic Church name, is walking in the flesh. Does not denomination mean recognized autonomous branch of the Christian Church."the Presbyterian community is the second largest denomination in the country"synonyms religious group, sect, Church, cult, movement, faith community, body, persuasion, religious persuasion, communion, order, fraternity, brotherhood, sisterhood, school; is not the Catholic denomination a Church?
So your Church is evident and it is walking in the flesh-because the denominational name is the Catholic Church, gal 5:19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,outbursts of anger, disputes, DISSENSIONS,
FACTIONS.
So every denomination you say: with a name, fits In with {Galatians 5:19} Interesting"

Ubenedictus:


where I. am going is clear.
denominations are a biblical taboo, a sin.
anybody who promotes such system is promoting an anti biblical system.

any one who claim to be in Christ and yet promote denominations is walking in the flesh.

I have never looked at names like the way you have done, I have always seen the Church to be the people-all under denominational buildings.
Thanks for your feed back-and you know Uben it does make sense, if the people knew Christ, they wouldn't need to seek after their man made denominations in the flesh that causes such evil within the Church.

Ubenedictus:


where I. am going is clear.
denominations are a biblical taboo, a sin.
anybody who promotes such system is promoting an anti biblical system.

any one who claim to be in Christ and yet promote denominations is walking in the flesh.

gal 5:19
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident,
which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,
outbursts of anger, disputes, DISSENSIONS,
FACTIONS.

brocab:
Thanks for you honesty Uben-so the Catholic Church demonstrates there Church is a first denominational Church God had built in Rome? and you believe-everyone who claims to promote their Church lets say AOG-COC any denomination name like the Catholic Church name, is walking in the flesh. Does not denomination mean recognized autonomous branch of the Christian Church."the Presbyterian community is the second largest denomination in the country"synonyms religious group, sect, Church, cult, movement, faith community, body, persuasion, religious persuasion, communion, order, fraternity, brotherhood, sisterhood, school; is not the Catholic denomination a Church?
So your Church is evident and it is walking in the flesh-because the denominational name is the Catholic Church, gal 5:19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,outbursts of anger, disputes, DISSENSIONS,
FACTIONS.
So every denomination you say: with a name, fits In with {Galatians 5:19} Interesting"
I have never looked at names like the way you have done, I have always seen the Church to be the people-all under denominational buildings.
Thanks for your feed back-and you know Uben it does make sense, if the people knew Christ, they wouldn't need to seek after their man made denominations in the flesh that causes such evil within the Church.

I think you have misunderstood me in one aspect.

1. I don't believe that the Catholic Church is the foremost denomination, no! instead I am saying that in, essence it is the Church established by Christ himself, which the apostles led and for which they ordained others to continue their work....that Church established by Christ himself is what has come down to us called the Catholic Church and the so-called denominations as factions that were made by men who call themselves Protestants.
2. all who broke out of the Catholic Church are the factions and dissension.


3. the Church according to the Bible has one Lord, one baptism, one Faith and one God, the different contradictory denominations fail that test as they do not share one Faith and they certainly cannot be every denomination.

that is why I never teach denomination instead I ask are you in the one Church instituted by Christ himself or in one of those faction and so-called denominations that broke off.

Uben Church buildings that carry any sort of name are classed as denominations, as we know, I don't fit into any denomination buildings that carry's a name, having my own opinion, I believe I can't find Christ in either of these names, If the Catholic Church belonged to Christ-then I am sure all the apostles would come together and had fellowship in the Catholic Church-but there's no evidence of that? The problem is, Rome never fully agreed on Christianity alone, Constantine's decision expected his god's, to be treated, worshipped together with the One true God, at the same time? God's a jealous God, He don't mix Himself in sin..
This argument between Churches Uben is a competition, people in all sizes, from different parts of the world, have always taken upon themselves someone else is better then the other, Jesus calls the people-not Church buildings, "the fruit of the Church buildings are-We either have the one, and not the other, or we will either hate the one, and love the other! {Galatians 3:28} And this is the fruit of Christ-we are all equal in Christ.
I don't have any dealt about the Catholic Church to agree on one accord, and visa verse with any Church, flesh brings {Galatians 5:19} into existence.
If we were to focus on Christ instead of which Church was built first, then we wouldn't care for the things of this world.
Uben I don't see a Church building-as the body of Christ-there are all names written on buildings, but in Christ His name is written on our hearts, there's no other name, above, on Earth or under the Earth, that could separate His name within.
Rome has a lot of history with paganism, and the Catholic Church have a strong hold over their people, and in this day and age-Statues are still standing in every corner-to remind you God exist! I could walk into any Church and find none, but if I was to look at the people, what will I find? I would see-many of them wearing idolising crosses around their necks, or something that simulates Christ, Christian book stores are full of idolising artifacts, stickers, bracelets, crosses, statues, pictures of the above about God-the bible states-do not make any graving images, above, on Earth or under the Earth.
{So if you were to think about it, this way--Uben the people haven't left the Catholic Church, they are not attending the Catholic Church-the Catholic Church is still in them, these people are missionaries, reaching out, spreading Catholicism throughout the world} And don't look at this the wrong way-but anybody you see-that carries or wears-anything to remind them God exist-are Catholic's born and bread throughout..
Uben I don't look at the Church building, I look for the fruit in people, without judging anybody-I know if Christ is working in their lives, I would see changes in people-because God never finishes His work once He had started, but if I seen people in Christ not changing in Him, then these are the people still in the flesh, they don't know God, nor does He know them.
Buildings are used to bring people together under one accord, when Christ builds His only Church-He is preferring to His people, and He is building, molding and sharping His people to be more like Him. This is the Church Christ is building-we stand as the temple of the Holy Spirit, we are His true Church, we are His bride.
{Matthew 20:16} So the last shall become first, and the first last, for many be called but few are chosen.

Ubenedictus:


I think you have misunderstood me in one aspect.

1. I don't believe that the Catholic Church is the foremost denomination, no! instead I am saying that in, essence it is the Church established by Christ himself, which the apostles led and for which they ordained others to continue their work....that Church established by Christ himself is what has come down to us called the Catholic Church and the so-called denominations as factions that were made by men who call themselves Protestants.
2. all who broke out of the Catholic Church are the factions and dissension.


3. the Church according to the Bible has one Lord, one baptism, one Faith and one God, the different contradictory denominations fail that test as they do not share one Faith and they certainly cannot be every denomination.

that is why I never teach denomination instead I ask are you in the one Church instituted by Christ himself or in one of those faction and so-called denominations that broke off.

as usual you enjoy writing long articles to side step an issue.

brocab:
Uben Church buildings that carry any sort of name are classed as denominations, as we know, I don't fit into any denomination buildings that carry's a name, having my own opinion, I believe I can't find Christ in either of these names, If the Catholic Church belonged to Christ-then I am sure all the apostles would come together and had fellowship in the Catholic Church-but there's no evidence of that? The problem is, Rome never fully agreed on Christianity alone, Constantine's decision expected his god's, to be treated, worshipped together with the One true God, at the same time? God's a jealous God, He don't mix Himself in sin..
This argument between Churches Uben is a competition, people in all sizes, from different parts of the world, have always taken upon themselves someone else is better then the other, Jesus calls the people-not Church buildings, "the fruit of the Church buildings are-We either have the one, and not the other, or we will either hate the one, and love the other! {Galatians 3:28} And this is the fruit of Christ-we are all equal in Christ.
I don't have any dealt about the Catholic Church to agree on one accord, and visa verse with any Church, flesh brings {Galatians 5:19} into existence.
If we were to focus on Christ instead of which Church was built first, then we wouldn't care for the things of this world.
Uben I don't see a Church building-as the body of Christ-there are all names written on buildings, but in Christ His name is written on our hearts, there's no other name, above, on Earth or under the Earth, that could separate His name within.
Rome has a lot of history with paganism, and the Catholic Church have a strong hold over their people, and in this day and age-Statues are still standing in every corner-to remind you God exist! I could walk into any Church and find none, but if I was to look at the people, what will I find? I would see-many of them wearing idolising crosses around their necks, or something that simulates Christ, Christian book stores are full of idolising artifacts, stickers, bracelets, crosses, statues, pictures of the above about God-the bible states-do not make any graving images, above, on Earth or under the Earth.
{So if you were to think about it, this way--Uben the people haven't left the Catholic Church, they are not attending the Catholic Church-the Catholic Church is still in them, these people are missionaries, reaching out, spreading Catholicism throughout the world} And don't look at this the wrong way-but anybody you see-that carries or wears-anything to remind them God exist-are Catholic's born and bread throughout..
Uben I don't look at the Church building, I look for the fruit in people, without judging anybody-I know if Christ is working in their lives, I would see changes in people-because God never finishes His work once He had started, but if I seen people in Christ not changing in Him, then these are the people still in the flesh, they don't know God, nor does He know them.
Buildings are used to bring people together under one accord, when Christ builds His only Church-He is preferring to His people, and He is building, molding and sharping His people to be more like Him. This is the Church Christ is building-we stand as the temple of the Holy Spirit, we are His true Church, we are His bride.
{Matthew 20:16} So the last shall become first, and the first last, for many be called but few are chosen.

though out my post I never talked about buildings, I am talking about groups of people, sects called denominations not buildings.


those denominations are as the Bible says a manifestation of the flesh.


as usual you've got your history upside down.


may God help you and free you of your misinformation.

Ubenedictus:
as usual you enjoy writing long articles to side step an issue.

though out my post I never talked about buildings, I am talking about groups of people, sects called denominations not buildings.


those denominations are as the Bible says a manifestation of the flesh.


as usual you've got your history upside down.


may God help you and free you of your misinformation.

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus sancti. Amen.

AkunnaTochi:

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus sancti. Amen.

Amen

Ubenedictus:
as usual you enjoy writing long articles to side step an issue.

though out my post I never talked about buildings, I am talking about groups of people, sects called denominations not buildings.


those denominations are as the Bible says a manifestation of the flesh.


as usual you've got your history upside down.


may God help you and free you of your misinformation.

You and Jolliano have tried. There is nothing more to add.

The OP is out to disenfranchise the catholic church and not not to have a good argument.

For the ones that say the church did not emanate from Catholic church or that Peter is not the first bishop (pope), I wonder what they think happened when Christ said

"Peter, on this Rock I will build my church....."

If there was only one church before Luther pulled out, which church was that? Redeem? Winners? Mountain of Fire? Chosen?

Benedictus and Jolliano, you guys have said more than enough.

May almighty God have mercy on us all forgive us our sins and lead us to life everlasting....

AkunnaTochi:
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus sancti. Amen.

Amen

This is what I like about you Uben-every time you feel some what beating-you come back at me with the insults, is this the Catholic's mentally, if we can't beat them, destroy them.
This isn't a competition-not every one will agree, but denominations of people that carry a name tag, are denominations in buildings-you call yourself a Catholic-and by your own knowledge you believe every other Church is walking in the flesh-why your Church stands with God Himself, this is the flesh talking, if you were spiritually minded-you wouldn't dare to call yourself religious.
I wonder how you feel, if I said I am a believer in Christ-does this make me a denomination of believers that walk in the flesh, without the building, if I was to call myself a Church name, that doesn't belong to Rome, then I am not walking with the apostle Peter, like the Catholic's do.
Then it must prove, I must be walking with Christ, not Peter, like most believers do, believers without a Church name hanging over them..

Ubenedictus:
as usual you enjoy writing long articles to side step an issue.

though out my post I never talked about buildings, I am talking about groups of people, sects called denominations not buildings.


those denominations are as the Bible says a manifestation of the flesh.


as usual you've got your history upside down.


may God help you and free you of your misinformation.

pdozie:


You and Jolliano have tried. There is nothing more to add.

The OP is out to disenfranchise the catholic church and not not to have a good argument.

For the ones that say the church did not emanate from Catholic church or that Peter is not the first bishop (pope), I wonder what they think happened when Christ said

"Peter, on this Rock I will build my church....."

If there was only one church before Luther pulled out, which church was that? Redeem? Winners? Mountain of Fire? Chosen?

Benedictus and Jolliano, you guys have said more than enough.

May almighty God have mercy on us all forgive us our sins and lead us to life everlasting....

Amen

Leave Uben alone-we have spoken before you existed, plus Uben isn't teaching, Uben is making a point..
And plus Uben already knows the stories about Peter, Uben doesn't need to be taught by you-plus as time had past I myself have learned a lot from Uben..

pdozie:


You and Jolliano have tried. There is nothing more to add.

The OP is out to disenfranchise the catholic church and not not to have a good argument.

For the ones that say the church did not emanate from Catholic church or that Peter is not the first bishop (pope), I wonder what they think happened when Christ said

"Peter, on this Rock I will build my church....."

If there was only one church before Luther pulled out, which church was that? Redeem? Winners? Mountain of Fire? Chosen?

Benedictus and Jolliano, you guys have said more than enough.

May almighty God have mercy on us all forgive us our sins and lead us to life everlasting....

brocab, be sincere I have not insulted you, I noted 2 things that you have been misinformed and that your post didn't address what I wrote but simply side stepped it. be sincere

brocab:
This is what I like about you Uben-every time you feel some what beating-you come back at me with the insults, is this the Catholic's mentally, if we can't beat them, destroy them.
This isn't a competition-not every one will agree, but denominations of people that carry a name tag, are denominations in buildings-you call yourself a Catholic-and by your own knowledge you believe every other Church is walking in the flesh-why your Church stands with God Himself, this is the flesh talking, if you were spiritually minded-you wouldn't dare to call yourself religious.
I wonder how you feel, if I said I am a believer in Christ-does this make me a denomination of believers that walk in the flesh, without the building, if I was to call myself a Church name, that doesn't belong to Rome, then I am not walking with the apostle Peter, like the Catholic's do.
Then it must prove, I must be walking with Christ, not Peter, like most believers do, believers without a Church name hanging over them..

if you claim to be a believer and you don't walk with Peter then you aren't a true believer nor are you a member of that Church the Bible speaks about because scriptures clearly teach that the Church is not built on Christ alone but also on the apostles and the Bible says among the apostles Peter is the first.

Therefore you are no longer strangers and
foreigners, but fellow citizens of the saints and
members of God’s household, 20 built on the
foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ
Jesus Himself as the cornerstone. eph 2:19-20



if you wish to truly be in the Church then, you must have Jesus as the corner stone and the apostles must be the foundation.

so yes I am happy to walk in Christ and with Peter because I am in that household built on the apostles not some sect or factions that broke away and is condemned in scriptures.

gal 5:19
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident,
which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,
outbursts of anger, disputes, DISSENSIONS,
FACTIONS.

brocab:
Leave Uben alone-we have spoken before you existed, plus Uben isn't teaching, Uben is making a point..
And plus Uben already knows the stories about Peter, Uben doesn't need to be taught by you-plus as time had past I myself have learned a lot from Uben..

don't speak for me.

I have no problem learning from pdozie

"Why? What can you learn from pdozie-when you know you have all the answers? I was only protecting someone I enjoy so much, I actually admire your understanding? Uben we have been having our disagreements forever, and if it takes forevermore, then let it be forever..
And I am sure you feel the same way about me..

Ubenedictus:
don't speak for me.

I have no problem learning from pdozie

brocab:
"Why? What can you learn from pdozie-when you know you have all the answers? I was only protecting someone I enjoy so much, I actually admire your understanding? Uben we have been having our disagreements forever, and if it takes forevermore, then let it be forever..
And I am sure you feel the same way about me..

Oga, he doesn't claim to know all the answers and I sincerely think that is the difference between you and him.
Nobody is so knowledgeable that he needs knowledge no more.
You are obviously unhappy with Pdozie for applauding Uben and Jolliano and so you resorted to claiming a relationship that doesn't even exist to mask your displeasure.
You lost the argument, bro.
It ended even before it started.
Give it up.

Uben, you remain a true child of our Holy Mother - the Church. Pax vobis.

AkunnaTochi:

Oga, he doesn't claim to know all the answers and I sincerely think that is the difference between you and him.
Nobody is so knowledgeable that he needs knowledge no more.
You are obviously unhappy with Pdozie for applauding Uben and Jolliano and so you resorted to claiming a relationship that doesn't even exist to mask your displeasure.
You lost the argument, bro.
It ended even before it started.
Give it up.

Uben, you remain a true child of our Holy Mother - the Church. Pax vobis.

et cum spiritu tuo

brocab:
"Why? What can you learn from pdozie-when you know you have all the answers? I was only protecting someone I enjoy so much, I actually admire your understanding? Uben we have been having our disagreements forever, and if it takes forevermore, then let it be forever..
And I am sure you feel the same way about me..

I have never claimed to be all knowing, I don't have answers for everything.


brocab, I am not interested in disagreements that take forever, I don't enjoy people who scoff... I am only interested in people who want to truly get the truth of a disagreement not someone who copies and paste, side step and then all what not just so as not to face the truth. Most times I discuss here on nairaland because of those who years from now may come across this thread.

So does this mean we are enemies once again?
Copying and paste-then how do you write scripture-or write email addresses of different sites for me to look at-if you are not interested in people doing what you do Hypocritical...

Ubenedictus:

I have never claimed to be all knowing, I don't have answers for everything.

How do people learn-by each other-If I said, I ask the Lord to direct me to seek out where to find my search about the subject we are seeking together, would you agree with that?
And what if I had said, I copy and paste to save time-because the site I find my information are from other believers in Christ, who have already had it written down on the same subject we are writing about.
What if I said: you don't recognise the truth, because the truth doesn't know you-would you agree?
Of course you wouldn't, because you would copy and paste something out from the Catholic Church, like you have done in the past, trying to prove your Church belongs to no-mans land-you call Peter.

Ubenedictus:


I have never claimed to be all knowing, I don't have answers for everything.


brocab, I am not interested in disagreements that take forever, I don't enjoy people who scoff... I am only interested in people who want to truly get the truth of a disagreement not someone who copies and paste, side step and then all what not just so as not to face the truth. Most times I discuss here on nairaland because of those who years from now may come across this thread.

brocab:
So does this mean we are enemies once again?
Copying and paste-then how do you write scripture-or write email addresses of different sites for me to look at-if you are not interested in people doing what you do Hypocritical...

I never saw you as an enemy, that is just you.

a paste scripture, sometimes I paste source materials to show proof of something, but unlike you I don't copy and paste arguments while side stepping the point made by another.

How do people learn-by each other-If I said, I ask the Lord to direct me to seek out where to find my search about the subject we are seeking together, would you agree with that?[/color]
And what if I had said, I copy and paste to save time-because the site I find my information are from other believers in Christ, who have already had it written down on the same subject we are writing about.

if that is what you do then I'll start doing the same, I'll begin to copy and paste arguments from Catholic sites since you claim you can't recognize that is counterproductive.

What if I said: you don't recognise the truth, because the truth doesn't know you-would you agree?[/color]
Of course you wouldn't, because you would copy and paste something out from the Catholic Church, like you have done in the past, trying to prove your Church belongs to no-mans land-you call Peter.

nah, I would disagree because I actually know the truth, I have come to the truth and I'm living in that reality, I don't need to copy and paste.


you remember some time ago when you copied and pasted falsehood against what the Catholic Church believes and you still kept your falsehood even after it was shown you were incorrect? that is how I know you aren't interested in learning anything or even discussing with an open mind. you just want to copy and paste your stories even when they are wrong.

Just a little side tracked, I just wanted to point this out-about Peter-Paul found Pete to be on both sides of the fence, Meaning by scripture Peter had one foot in Christ and the other foot in the law of Judaism. This same Peter is recognised by the Church of Rome.
And is it not, that the Catholic Church is on both sides of the fence and they too believe having one foot in Christ and the other in Mary and the saints glorifies thee..
{Galatians 2:7-21} But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles) and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do.Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.
Is this the same circumcision the Catholic's now believe every believer should practice, to be circumcised under the law.
But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
I remember when I first met my wife as a Catholic she was taught all men should be circumcised under the law..
“But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.
{Galatians 6:15-17} Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.
From now on, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus.

Then do the same-paste your evidence-prove it lines up with the Word of God, I am not in any competition, this is strictly bible-we are proclaiming Christ to be the author, He gives life.
I also know the truth-the truth is Christ-He is the author of all truth. If you have the truth-then share that truth, Is Christ your first priority, or have you another-do you pray to the Father, or do you pray through another, Is Christ your mediator or is there another?
Which truth do you seek Uben?

Ubenedictus:
I never saw you as an enemy, that is just you.

a paste scripture, sometimes I paste source materials to show proof of something, but unlike you I don't copy and paste arguments while side stepping the point made by another.

if that is what you do then I'll start doing the same, I'll begin to copy and paste arguments from Catholic sites since you claim you can't recognize that is counterproductive.
nah, I would disagree because I actually know the truth, I have come to the truth and I'm living in that reality, I don't need to copy and paste.


you remember some time ago when you copied and pasted falsehood against what the Catholic Church believes and you still kept your falsehood even after it was shown you were incorrect? that is how I know you aren't interested in learning anything or even discussing with an open mind. you just want to copy and paste your stories even when they are wrong.

Roman catholics are not christians .click the link to see why ~ http://www.chick.com/m/reading/tracts/readtract.asp?stk=0071

Uben you may not see me learning about the Catholic Church-but the truth is, I am learning about the Church, maybe it isn't the way you expected me to learn-but I am learning..
Uben the net is full of stuff-you may not like what people are saying about your Church-but it's the Church people don't agree upon, they say things about my Church too, Uben it's not the Church building I am concerned about. it's the idolatry in the teaching-and why teach against Christ-when the Church is Christ, not the building, not the people first, but Christ first.
Sometimes we all have that habit, bringing something, other then Christ to the altar, something that we feel is more important to us-but we brought nothing into this world-and surely we won't be taken it out, after we die.
It's Idolatry: against Christ-Paul describes the origin of idolatry in {Romans 1:21-25}
So don't walk away feeling like someone had ripped your heart out, we cant expect people to agree with any Church-I don't look at this, as an insult, I see an awakening on both sides of the fence-either on the inside or on the outside-you can't expect everybody to bow down to Catholicism-this isn't about which Church building stood up the longest, Christ is the head of the body-and the body is the people, without the people there's nothing to be pride off.
Heaven and Earth will pass away, but His Word will always stay.

Ubenedictus:
I never saw you as an enemy, that is just you.

a paste scripture, sometimes I paste source materials to show proof of something, but unlike you I don't copy and paste arguments while side stepping the point made by another.

if that is what you do then I'll start doing the same, I'll begin to copy and paste arguments from Catholic sites since you claim you can't recognize that is counterproductive.
nah, I would disagree because I actually know the truth, I have come to the truth and I'm living in that reality, I don't need to copy and paste.


you remember some time ago when you copied and pasted falsehood against what the Catholic Church believes and you still kept your falsehood even after it was shown you were incorrect? that is how I know you aren't interested in learning anything or even discussing with an open mind. you just want to copy and paste your stories even when they are wrong.

Browse the tracts in this site to see the fact about the roman catholic institution . ~ http://www.chick.com/m/catalog/tracts_bykeyword.asp?K=Catholicism