jessca048:


if you say it is unnatural then what do you say about animals that practice homosexual practices too

Originalsly:


This is a common response to justify homosexuality is natural. Animals do what animals do. ..it is natural for them... it is not natural for us humans. An animal will hump it's siblings...male or female especially during puberty...will try humping its parents if possible...that's natural for them..animals...not natural for us humans. Do some people do that? ...no doubt... but it is a conscious choice they made...not instinctive like the animals. .and if it's not instinctive then it's not natural. When we as humans choose to behave sexually like animals...and a lot of people do...that's bestiality..... people having unnatural sex...sex with goats, cows and other animals...having s3x with their parents...their fellow man....because they do it doesn't mean it's natural.
If homosexuality is natural....then bestiality as well as incest should also be natural.
Homosexuality is by choice.... the lifestyle one chooses to live.... whether we agree or not...it is a lifestyle more people would be choosing to live and that is unstoppable. I don't understand why a Christian would be upset and be praying to reverse the trend when it is prophesied in the Bible. Why be upset that prophecy is being fulfilled?

nobilis:


Mention one gay person that stopped being gay and stopped being romantically attracted to guys after going through deliverance session.

Just mention one.

I'm waiting.

Larryslim:

You could have easily made your point but instead you decided to insult..
That is why in this Life you'll always continue to be a slave of your mate and those younger than you are!.
if you weren't before, from this day you'll start!

nobilis:


Reading this your long post filled with unnecessary and ill-fitting big grammar is giving me a headache.

Please kill all the gays, you hear.

If that will make your country better, please kill them let me hear word.

Empty vessel.

The Bible made it clear, right?
So everybody in the world must be ruled by the Bible.

It is the gays that are making your country not to progress.
Yet ironically, those countries that are liberal towards gays live better lives than you.
Since God loves your country more than he loves those ones, why do you suffer so much in your country and why do you always dream of relocating to those other countries or at least vacationing in those countries.

Kill all the gays.
I believe when you finish killing them, your politicians will stop stealing from you.
And your health indices will improve.
Immediately all the gays are killed, Boko Haram and Fulani herdsmen will disappear.

Foolishness reigns Supreme on nairaland these days.
Keep it up.

Twagrill:

i haven't seen one
but i know everything that happens in the physical is caused by the spiritual and obviously being gay is not of God but of the devil.

Obi1kenobi:


I will assume you're heterosexual. Since homosexuality is a "choice" by your theory, this would also mean heterosexuality is a choice. At what time in your life did you "choose" to be heterosexual?

Originalsly:


If homosexuality is a choice...doesn't mean heterosexuality is also a choice. Humans are natural heterosexuals.... they don't have to choose... it's instinctive... the same way a cow doesn't have to choose at some point whether it wants to eat grass and leaves...or go after goats and and fish and a few birds if possible. I never had to choose to be heterosexual. ... but should I want to be homosexual. .then I'll have to make that choice and rewire my mind.... no different from when a Kazeem rewire a car... we know that car is no longer normal.


_

jessca048:
if you say it is unnatural then what do you say about animals that practice homosexual practices too

BetaThings:


Please let us have the scientific evidence presented in credible peer-reviewed journals
It heightens HIV risk

It is spread in insiduous ways - bribing young boys, forcing them into the act after luring them into some hideout
It is disgusting like bestiality or necrophilia, and we don't want perversion spreading, do we?

Obi1kenobi:


Where is the evidence that humans are "natural heterosexuals"? The fact it's more common than homosexuality? Your argument is no different from telling a left-handed child that humans are naturally right-handed and telling him he made a choice to be left-handed. If your are asserting that homosexuality is a choice, then sexuality either way is a choice. Your animal analogy makes no sense either. How about the fact that bonobos, our closest animal relatives, display very high inclinations towards homosexuality? That isn't proof enough for you that homosexuality is a natural instinct in some people?

nobilis:


Okay.
Let me educate you a little, if you will allow yourself to be open minded on this issue.
This is not an issue that we should just sit behind our internet-enabled device and be issuing condemnations anyhow.
At least, before you condemn something, try to understand it.
So let's examine some facts.

Traditionally, before the coming of the colonial masters, there is no culture in Africa that castigated homosexuality. You can check. You can ask questions. Do your research. If your grandfather or great grandfather is alive, you can go and ask him. If there is any person well versed in oral tradition and history in your place, go and ask the person.

African pre-colonial communities had this culture of "live and let live".
As long as the way you were living your life was not infringing on the rights of another person, as long as it doesn't constitute public displays of things that should be kept private, nobody disturbs you, nobody bothers you.
I'm not making this up.
You can ask.

In pre-colonial African communities, there were men who were known to be effeminate and were known to be girly. In some communities, it was reported that these men were also having sex with fellow men. They were still considered part of the community and not banished. There were women who were known to be masculine and manly. There were also individuals in communities who chose not to get married. These people were active and functional members of the community and they were not ostracized.
These are verifiable facts.
Ask around.

The first laws against homosexuality that came into existence in Africa, came with the coming of the white man.
There were no such laws before the white man came.
Now, come to think of it.
It is only when something is existent that you make a law against it.
For example, if you go to a place where they don't know what stealing is, it will be foolish to make any laws there against stealing.
Why?
Because the people there don't know anything about stealing. So the law you make against stealing will be useless.
It's the same thing in this situation.
The white man came with the Bible, saw the prevalence of homosexual behaviors in our communities, they saw that that behavior was countered by their bible and then they made laws against it.
So that is how how legislations against homosexuality in Africa came about.
There was no such laws before the white man.

Following up to the question I asked you earlier, since you said it is a societal problem, condemning it and discouraging it will not make it stop. It has been done several times. People have been killed for it. Yet, you can't stop it.

Apart from religious statutes, there is nothing again anybody has against homosexuality.
Let's assume for the sake of argument that we adhere to the religious principles.
We all know that not everybody in Nigeria is either a Christian or a Muslim.
So does that mean you will use Christian or Islamic standards to make rules that are binding on everybody?
That will be very very wrong and that is why our 1999 constitution is a mess because most of its laws are based on Islamic principles.
And this is the particular reason why countries with heterogeneous groups of people, as in the case of Nigeria, should be secular and not religious.
You don't make laws with religion as the basis.

And if you even choose to hold onto religion. There are several things that religion condemns that people do.
There is no legislation in Nigeria against premarital sex. There is no legislation against child marriages. There is no legislation against adultery. There is no legislation against pornography. Yet all these were condemned in the Bible. But yet we celebrate all these things.
Do you feel that if you don't condemn all these ones and then just choose to condemn homosexuality that God will be very happy with you?
If you see homosexuality as a sin, then even the Bible said that if you a guilty of breaking one part of the law, then you are guilty of breaking all of the law.

Homosexuality used to be seen as a mental disorder in the West before.
They reported how it led people to depression and how it led people to suicide and all of that.
But with time, they began to see a different perspective.
They learnt that it only led people to suicide because with all the legislations they had in place against homosexuality, gay people were feeling depressed and hopeless. They felt like outcasts and felt like they couldn't find their place in the world.
Gradually, as they phased out those legislations, the rate of suicide and depression among gays reduced.
There are studies that show this.
You can check it.

There are several countries of the world where there is some liberalism towards gay people.
Go and check the indices of those countries: economic, health, and so on.
Check their indices and you will see that that they are still progressing and their citizens are living better lives than us.
Then ask yourself, why is it that it is those countries that are intensely religious and have legislations against homosexuality just because they feel they are doing God a favour, why is it that it is those religious countries that have the poorest citizens in the world and have the poorest standard of living for their citizens.

I have tried to reason with you on this issue.
I expect you to go through this post with an open mind and do your own research with an open without prejudice against homosexuality. Just for a moment, forget about how much you hate homosexuality and do the researches I suggested. After you have done so, then tell me what you came up with.
If you actually do this, it will be a triumph for common sense.
But if you choose not do as I suggested, I still won't be surprised because you would be showing the typical Nigerian attitude of I-Know-It-All and that's why we don't progress much.

Shalom.

nobilis:


Okay.
Let me educate you a little, if you will allow yourself to be open minded on this issue.
This is not an issue that we should just sit behind our internet-enabled device and be issuing condemnations anyhow.
At least, before you condemn something, try to understand it.
So let's examine some facts.

Traditionally, before the coming of the colonial masters, there is no culture in Africa that castigated homosexuality. You can check. You can ask questions. Do your research. If your grandfather or great grandfather is alive, you can go and ask him. If there is any person well versed in oral tradition and history in your place, go and ask the person.

African pre-colonial communities had this culture of "live and let live".
As long as the way you were living your life was not infringing on the rights of another person, as long as it doesn't constitute public displays of things that should be kept private, nobody disturbs you, nobody bothers you.
I'm not making this up.
You can ask.

In pre-colonial African communities, there were men who were known to be effeminate and were known to be girly. In some communities, it was reported that these men were also having sex with fellow men. They were still considered part of the community and not banished. There were women who were known to be masculine and manly. There were also individuals in communities who chose not to get married. These people were active and functional members of the community and they were not ostracized.
These are verifiable facts.
Ask around.

The first laws against homosexuality that came into existence in Africa, came with the coming of the white man.
There were no such laws before the white man came.
Now, come to think of it.
It is only when something is existent that you make a law against it.
For example, if you go to a place where they don't know what stealing is, it will be foolish to make any laws there against stealing.
Why?
Because the people there don't know anything about stealing. So the law you make against stealing will be useless.
It's the same thing in this situation.
The white man came with the Bible, saw the prevalence of homosexual behaviors in our communities, they saw that that behavior was countered by their bible and then they made laws against it.
So that is how how legislations against homosexuality in Africa came about.
There was no such laws before the white man.

Following up to the question I asked you earlier, since you said it is a societal problem, condemning it and discouraging it will not make it stop. It has been done several times. People have been killed for it. Yet, you can't stop it.

Apart from religious statutes, there is nothing again anybody has against homosexuality.
Let's assume for the sake of argument that we adhere to the religious principles.
We all know that not everybody in Nigeria is either a Christian or a Muslim.
So does that mean you will use Christian or Islamic standards to make rules that are binding on everybody?
That will be very very wrong and that is why our 1999 constitution is a mess because most of its laws are based on Islamic principles.
And this is the particular reason why countries with heterogeneous groups of people, as in the case of Nigeria, should be secular and not religious.
You don't make laws with religion as the basis.

And if you even choose to hold onto religion. There are several things that religion condemns that people do.
There is no legislation in Nigeria against premarital sex. There is no legislation against child marriages. There is no legislation against adultery. There is no legislation against pornography. Yet all these were condemned in the Bible. But yet we celebrate all these things.
Do you feel that if you don't condemn all these ones and then just choose to condemn homosexuality that God will be very happy with you?
If you see homosexuality as a sin, then even the Bible said that if you a guilty of breaking one part of the law, then you are guilty of breaking all of the law.

Homosexuality used to be seen as a mental disorder in the West before.
They reported how it led people to depression and how it led people to suicide and all of that.
But with time, they began to see a different perspective.
They learnt that it only led people to suicide because with all the legislations they had in place against homosexuality, gay people were feeling depressed and hopeless. They felt like outcasts and felt like they couldn't find their place in the world.
Gradually, as they phased out those legislations, the rate of suicide and depression among gays reduced.
There are studies that show this.
You can check it.

There are several countries of the world where there is some liberalism towards gay people.
Go and check the indices of those countries: economic, health, and so on.
Check their indices and you will see that that they are still progressing and their citizens are living better lives than us.
Then ask yourself, why is it that it is those countries that are intensely religious and have legislations against homosexuality just because they feel they are doing God a favour, why is it that it is those religious countries that have the poorest citizens in the world and have the poorest standard of living for their citizens.

I have tried to reason with you on this issue.
I expect you to go through this post with an open mind and do your own research with an open without prejudice against homosexuality. Just for a moment, forget about how much you hate homosexuality and do the researches I suggested. After you have done so, then tell me what you came up with.
If you actually do this, it will be a triumph for common sense.
But if you choose not do as I suggested, I still won't be surprised because you would be showing the typical Nigerian attitude of I-Know-It-All and that's why we don't progress much.

Shalom.

nobilis:


So it is of the devil and of all the people that have been going for deliverance from this devilish thing, not one of them has been delivered.

Invariably, that means that either God is powerless over the devil in this one or he doesn't care about the salvation of the gay people.

So which one is it?
Is God powerless or is it that he doesn't care?

Originalsly:

Being natural heterosexuals has nothing to do with being more common. ... but with instinct. A child being left handed is not a choice....it's natural...never mind he may be one in a thousand. ..not common...but natural because it is instinctive. .. he was preprogrammed that way...not a choice. And here we go again. ..because homosexuality is a choice...therefore heterosexuality is also a choice. What evidence do you have that homosexuality is natural..not a choice?....and keep it to humans... don't use animals to justify homosexuality.

darkchild64:
the funny thing is this,the bottom line of all these arguments is that most homophobic folks here would still prefer to go to a country like the U.S.A where gay marriage is legal,than stay here in Nigeria where it is criminalized,so the question is "if homosexuality is such a liability and abomination how come gay loving countries are not destroyed by Yahweh rather they are more successful than homophobic countries so much that Africans are doing everything possible to go to such countries" ?

Obi1kenobi:


1) I haven't even declared what is a choice and what isn't. You made such an assertion with nothing empirical backing it other than your "feelings". You claimed homosexuals made a choice and are now claiming being left-handed is an instinct. Either way, you don't have a shred of evidence for whatever you're talking about. Then you turn it around on me asking me to prove what I never asserted in the first place.

2) Why would I keep it to humans. Natural phenomena occur in animals just as much as they do in humans. Several mammal species have significant incidences of homosexual behaviour. Our closest genetic cousins, bonobos which share almost 99% of human DNA, have very high incidence of homosexual behaviour. Majority of bonobos exhibit bisexual behaviour. If that is not "instinct", what the hell is instinct? Animals may not share the cognitive ability of humans, but we share instincts. If an instinct can exist in apes, why not humans? Don't tell me what to use and what not to use. That is dodging. Afterall, you were the one that made a ridiculous animal analogy when talking about cows and their diet and I raised you a better animal analogy governing instincts.

Have you ever sat down to wonder why people despite the immense threats of discrimination, ostracism, criminal prosecution, violence and even death, still are homosexual? They choose it just for the kicks? How can you sit down behind your keyboard asserting what you frankly know nothing about, claiming homosexuality is a "choice"? Not even that you said some people choose it, which is a defensible standpoint, especially in liberal cultures that tolerate it, but confidently trying to assert that all homosexuals simply made a choice to be homosexual, as if you've studied and understand their psyche? What kind of arrogance is that?

Boyooosa:

You made valid points not only because everybody has right to life but also because of the fact that everybody should live the way he or she fancies.
I'll be very brief cos of time. A lil child can think of doing whatever thing he feels like, even jumping into red sea but his parents have the responsibility and duty to safeguard him and put him back to his feet.
Taking for example, your sister might find a dog more sexually attractive than a man based on what she has seen, heard or learnt in the society, I want to believe strongly that you will lay your life for the cause of stopping her (God forbids anyway) just like some of us that have seen the futuristic effect of GLBT on the society.
Let me quickly state that it is socially immoral to think that the normal sexual intercourse BTW a man and a woman is overhyped and it will be dangerously criminal to think of terminating the continuous existence of human race. We all know the only valid way of reproduction is the sexual intercourse BTW a man and a woman or the cross-sex means. Now, don't you think it will be selfish and unnatural to start making babies out of wedlock, adapting babies cos of inability to reproduce together and exploring other means not because of impotence but for lusful desire or admiration which can attract damnation....
Let's now assume everybody becomes GLBT, how do u think new babies can come on board since there is no tech yet to handle that.
Lastly, I have a strong belief that it is criminal to attempt stopping the human race.
Think about!

plaetton:

Lol.
Cognitive dissonance at its best.
A lot of people are born with a disposition for diabetes, a hormone deficiency. When was the last time you saw anyone stop being diabetic on their own Will ?

plaetton:

A lot people are born left-handed. Considering that left-handedness is also denigrated in the Bible, when was the last time you saw a left handed person converted to right-handedness by sheer will ?

plaetton:

Funny thing with you homo religilous is how you make your imaginary god an escape artist. He takes credit for awarding great talents, but goes AWOL when it comes to traits you do not like.

Then of course, it makes sense the religious context for your god to hate everything that you hate.
You know why ?
Because your god was fabricated in the dark and primitive part of your brain.

A god is as good or as bad , as crazy or a benign as the mind that fabricated it.

Jonathan:
[s][/s]
[s]Dear retárd, are you tired of that dumb lines??
It's so stale.
Brace yourself[/s]

grandstar:




Diabetes 1 and homosexuality are 2 completely different things. And there are many men with effeminate qualities (lack hormones) who aren't gay.

There are several individuals with strong homosexual desires who have refused to give in to the urge because they know is bad.

Are there those not disposed to being paedophiles? Are there not those disposed to being voyeurs?

Left to my urgings, I would probably be sleeping with almost anything in skirts but my conscience knows it is wrong. There are lots of things that come natural to us but we say no because we know it is wrong.

Gay sex is wrong (Let's not deceive ourselves) and those who are disposed to it do their best not to give in to

Many have succeeded, though hard but they have.



My brother was born left handed. My mum made sure he became right handed.

Where does the bible denigrate left handedness.

It might have been the cultures of those places but the bible never condemned being left handedness







I don't understand your first paragraph.

How does he go AWOL? He urges us to change if they are behavioral traits.

Yes, we hate what he hates because he knows what is best (Isaiah 55:6,7). We are urged to be imitators of Him as beloved children. (Ephesians 5:1)

The most important question is this? Is there a God or just our fabrication or what we contrive Him to be?

Read what Apostle siad in Romans 1:20

"For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward,
because they are perceived by the things made,
even his eternal power and Godship,
so that they are inexcusable"

You can't help admire even the earth and not see Intelligent Design. Through the design,we are compelled to say, "Mother Nature", as it shows the Creator's invisible qualities such as his love and kindness towards all his creation.

It is said that the possibility of the protein in a cell coming by change is 1 in 10 raised to 150.

Science has taught us to disregard anything higher than 1 in 10 raised to the power 117.

If therefore, the protein can not come by chance, how much more a human being, even a gnat?!

Please reason for yourself, if you were to come across a grandiose mansion in the middle of the jungle, would you assume it came by chance? Certainly not.

Science itself proves there is a God.

Read below a talk Paul gave at the Areopagus in Athens ( Like Hyde Park in London) where many learned men gathered and might have included a few atheist

"22 Paul now stood in the midst of the Ar·e·opʹa·gus and said:

“Men of Athens, I see that in all things you seem to be more given to the fear of the deities* than others are.o 23 For instance, while passing along and carefully observing your objects of veneration,* I found even an altar on which had been inscribed ‘To an Unknown God.’ Therefore, what you are unknowingly worshipping, this I am declaring to you.

The God who made the world and all the things in it, being, as he is, Lord of heaven and earth,p does not dwell in handmade temples;
nor is he served by human hands as if he needed anything,r because he himself gives to all people life and breaths and all things.

And he made out of one mant every nation of men to dwell on the entire surface of the earth,u and he decreed the appointed times and the set limits of where men would dwell, so that they would seek God, if they might grope for him and really find him,w although, in fact, he is not far off from each one of us. For by him we have life and move and exist, even as some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also his children.’

“Therefore, since we are the children* of God, we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, like something sculptured by the art and design of humans. True, God has overlooked the times of such ignorance; but now he is declaring to all people everywhere that they should repent. 31 Because he has set a day on which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has provided a guarantee to all men by resurrecting him from the dead"

Did you glean anything from this?

Obi1kenobi:




Have you ever sat down to wonder why people despite the immense threats of discrimination, ostracism, criminal prosecution, violence and even death, still are homosexual? They choose it just for the kicks? How can you sit down behind your keyboard asserting what you frankly know nothing about, claiming homosexuality is a "choice"?

Originalsly:


Homophobic ....who is homophobic/afraid of homos? When someone disagrees with or does not support the lifestyle he is afraid of it? Same line the 'Jews' run...when you disagree with them you are 'Anti Semetic'.
How do you define 'success' when it relates to Yaweh?...success is measured quite the opposite when it comes to Yahweh and Satan. Yahweh is not about materialism..vanity upon vanity...no doubt. ..gays are doing wayyy better than average when it comes to earthly powers and possessions.

Twagrill:

God actually can but they have actually want to be delivered.
How do you know not even one of has been delivered.

nobilis:


No, sir.
Being gay is not a crime in the Nigerian Constitution.
There is not one phrase of the Nigerian Constitution that even mentions homosexuality.

Maybe you need to go and read the text of the SSMPA signed into law by Jonathan.
If you don't have access to it, I can look it up for you and post it here for you to read.
What Nigeria considers a crime is having gay sex, having a gay marriage.
But it is not a crime to be gay in Nigeria.

Secondly, there is no animal that undergoes suicidal death.
Animals may engage in behavior that eventually lead to their death but it is not suicide because they do not engage in those behaviors with the sole purpose of killing themselves.
It is only humans that commit suicide.

If you say there is an animal that commits suicide, mention the name of that animal

Lastly, nobody is comparing humans with lower animals.
You said homosexuality is unnatural.
So the only way to show you that it is natural is to show you that there are several instances of homosexual behavior in other aspects of nature apart from man.

You can call me whatever names you want to just to make yourself feel better and validate your nonsense argument.
You feel using words like "comparative accurate reasonability" means that you are intelligent?
I pity you.
A man is intelligent, not because he reasons with his emotions.
A man is considered intelligent when he selflessly examines a subject matter without prejudice and finds the merits or demerits of the subject matter.

Just like we are talking about homosexuality and genes that might be responsible for it and you started talking about suicide bombing. And talking about animals who engage in suicide.
For you to even talk about suicide in animals means you don't know or understand the psychology behind suicide.
It is an evidence of the height of foolishness resident in your mind because you couldn't come up with an appropriate analogy that will be suitable to the discussion at hand.


And the fact that you don't even the exact extent of what is covered in the Nigerian constitution and that you don't even know what the Same Sex Marriage Prohibition Act states but you are making reference to both is an act of stupidity.
How can you be making reference to something when you don't know whether what you are using to make reference is found in your reference material or not.
Stupidity of the highest order.
If there is a portion of the constitution that says it is a crime to be gay, just quote that part of the constitution let me see.
If there is a part of the SSMPA that condemns people for being gay quote that part let me see.
Just because you have an internet-enabled device, you now feel you have arrived.

And you will never learn because you already believe you know everything.
He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a dangerous fool.
Shame on you.

You're quoting dictionary for me.
Hahahahahahahahaha.
You really need Education.
That you went to school and got a degree doesn't mean you're educated.
Educate yourself.
This is a selfless advice.

A wise man doesn't make noise. It is a foolish man that keeps yapping and yapping like a dog.
Empty vessels making the loudest noise.

Originalsly:

You are assuming. Have you ever sat down and talk to one...just one homosexual?....let alone about the topic at hand? Well I have...to several of them. FYI.... I live in "Sodom and Gomorrah"....I work in a community that is being invaded by homosexuals.... I have to verbally interact with them face to face on a daily basis..all day...I have workmates that are gay... and none is shy to talk. From the 'interviews" I've done...I can write a book on why some people become gay...or trapped in this lifestyle. One fellow worker...trapped in the lifestyle...is now married and living a 'normal life'. Another has recently got 'married'...guy married another guy.
Empirical evidence.... don't be holding your breath.... some things you learn on the streets ..you can't learn elsewhere.
After all....we are here to share and trade opinions...not to prove, convince or convert. I'm out.

AZeD1:

Is a brother and a sister getting attracted to each other natural or unnatural?

If it's unnatural, why would you say heterosexuality is natural?

If it's natural, why is it wrong?