BetaThings:

Only a misguided Sunni will remember (RA) every dead except Hussein (RA) and his family
The point is that how do we remember the dead? We relate the story like Tbaba did here. We don't set any day aside for remembering anyone including Hussein's father (Ali, RA) and grandfather, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
If you have evidence to the contrary, please provide it

But your brother did not say anything about the massacre. He did not say anything about it being a sad event. He did not want it mentioned because "Sunnis don't mourn for more than 3 days"
BTW others are reading this thread and they can see what everyone has said. There is no need for anyone in the ring to pretend to be a judge

As for the video, do you really think the failure of some Sunnis to remember an event is enough to make anyone switch to Shia

So I will become a Shia and start cursing Umar and Abu Bakr (RAA)? I will start saying anyone apart from Allah can just say kun faya kun and it will happen? I will start saying "to Hussain/Fatima/Ali/(RAA) Mohammed (SAW) we belong and to them we will return?"

displaying either ignorance or lies is not an except route from the truth.

so the day of Ashura has no significance in Islam? well,yes you will say it does,and then relate it to other events you believe took place that day,but not the tragedy of Karbala.you see what we are saying about avoiding the day of Ashura? even you said it you don't set a day to remember anyone.but you commemorate the day the sebrenica massacre occurred.amazing logic!!!

and we don't believe anyone can say kun fa yakun aside from Allah.if anyone does and have that power,it is by Allah's permission,as we are told in the Quran about Isa (as) and giving life to the dead.stop lying or stop the drama,whichever way.

BetaThings:

Your brother Shia did not want us to remember the massacre in Srebrenica. Are you saying only Salafis were killed there?

must you lie? or its all about the drama?
https://www.nairaland.com/1221369/srebrenica-massacre/1#14796526

I can see from the sectarian and hatred filled videos you posted,that you like drama.haven't over 1000 years of sunni oppression and persecution over the Shia,enough to satiate you?

BetaThings:

Exactly. If you want to bring the issue of Hussain, open another thread. Let us learn from the Srebrenica issue
But Shias are often applauded by Christians when they start attacking Sunnis
I am waiting for the next weapon consignment from Iran to see how the Christians will exonerate them
BTW contrary to the falsehood, Shia set a special day aside for Hussain (RA) and pays little attention to others
Was Hussain (RA) the only Muslim ever massacred. The type of favouritism they practise is what the Prophet (SAW) warned us against when he warned that if his (SAW) daughter Fatima (RA) stole, he (SAW) would cut off her hand
Why are they quiet about Hassan (RA) anyway? They don't treat him (RA) like a Massum
May Allah guide us

Hussein (as) is the grandson of your Prophet (s),mister.if the grandson of the Prophet (s) can be beheaded,and his family and companions too murdered,and others taken captives as the kuffar are taken prisoners of war,such is the most catastrophic day in Islam.we do not practice favoritism.we practice justice.what you do is cherry-picking and a display of selective memory.

let us leave the Tragedy of Karbala,since it is in the interest of your Sunni sect not to remember anything about it,to preserve the image of your sunni caliphate and those who preceded yazid.let us deal with a current happening.in Pakistan in the last 20 to 30 years,over 20,000 Shia have been massacred.why didnt tbaba feel for them? or are they not humans? Sebrenica is happening everyday in Pakistan,carried out by the Wahhabis/salafists.you forget that the Christians are watching when those Sunni fanatics massacre the Shia? we do support the people of Bosnia and sympathize with them.but I was moved to comment because of tbaba's evident hypocrisy.when muslims (sunnis) are killed in Burma,we Shia don't refrain to show our sympathy and support,regardless of sectarian issues or differences.

here we have two threads in this forum highlighting the crimes of the Wahhabis/salafists,that tbaba associates/identifies himself with:

Genocide Of Shia Muslims In Pakistan
https://www.nairaland.com/1120418/genocide-shia-muslims-pakistan

A Timeline Of Sectarian Terrorism Against Shia Muslims
https://www.nairaland.com/961495/timeline-sectarian-terrorism-against-shia

when sympathy and an expression of humanity only become evident when your own is concerned,that is not being a humanist but a fanatic and a sectarianist who disregards humanity and the sanctity of human life, when Allah (swt) says: "he who kills an innocent soul,it is as if he has killed all of humanity". Allah (swt) did not say "he who kills an innocent muslim soul" or "an innocent salafist soul".Islam sanctifies life away from religious divisions and far from the inhumanity the salafist/wahabi terrorists are displaying in Pakistan,and Iraq against the Shia,and in Nigeria against the Christians.

Examining the Traditions of Tathwib

The traditions resorted to for proving Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm are all fallacious regarding their documents. These traditions are mostly those narrated by Abu Dawud and Al-Nisa’i from Abu Mahdhurah as is mentioned in Al-Mughni,[298] Al-Sharh Al-Kabir[299] and Al-Majmu’.[300]

The tradition of Nisa’i

In Sunan Al-Nisa’i, the tradition is as follows:

Suwayd Ibn Nasr said: Abdullah narrates from Sufyan from Ibn Ja’far from Abi Salman that Abu Mahdhurah said: “I called out Adhan for the Holy Prophet (a.s) and I called out in the Morning Adhan Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm.[301]

The document of this tradition in Sunan Bayhaqi is in this form: “It was narrated for us from Sufyan Thawri from Abu Ja’far from Abu Sulayman…” Abu Salman is therefore replaced with Abu Sulayman. Bayhaqi continues: “The name of Abu Sulayman is Hammam Mu’adhin (muezzin).”[302]


In this document, Abu Salman or Abu Sulayman is named Hammam Mu’adhin and is an unknown person. All that Ibn Hajar has brought about this man is that, “It is said that the name of Abu Salman Mu’adhin is Hammam and he narrates traditions from Ali and Abu Mahdhurah. Abu Ja’far Farra’ and Ala’ Ibn Salih Kufi narrate traditions on his authority.[303]

Beside the problem posed by Abu Sulayman about the document of this tradition, some believe that Abu Ja’far whose name is in this tradition is not known and not the same person as Abu Ja’far Al-Farra’. Nisa’i himself has mentioned this issue in Sunan.

The traditions of Abu Dawud

(1) Musaddad narrated to us from al-Harith Ibn Ubayd from Muhammad Ibn Abd al-Malik Ibn Abu Mahdhurah from his father that his grandfather said: I said, “O the Messenger of Allah! Teach me your way of saying the Adhan!” The Prophet touched my head and said, “Say like this…” He mentioned the phrases in Adhan one by one until he reached Hayya Ala al-Falah;and then he said: “In case of the Morning Prayer, say: Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm.[304]

In this tradition’s document, there is Muhammad Ibn Abd al-Malik about whom Ibn Hajar narrates Ibn Qattan’s saying, “He is unidentified and nobody has ever narrated a tradition from him except Harith.” After quoting the traditions of Thawri and Harith Ibn Ubayd narrated by Muhammad Ibn Abd al-Malik, Ibn Hajar quotes Abdul Haq as saying, “We cannot adduce these documents.”[305] Harith Ibn Ubayd is also subject of controversy.[306]

(2) Al-Hasan Ibn Ali, nicknamed Abu Ali, narrated to us from Abu Asim and Abd al-Razzaq from Abu Jurayj that Uthman Ibn Sa’ib narrated from his father and the mother of Abd al-Malik Ibn Abu Mahdhurah that Abu Mahdhurah narrates from the honorable Prophet (a.s) that Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm is said twice in the Morning…[307]

In this tradition too, Uthman Ibn Sa’ib and his father are not known except by this very tradition.[308] The mother of Abd al-Malik is also unknown.

(3) Al-Nufayli narrated to us from Ibrahim Ibn Isma’il Ibn Abd al-Malik that he heard his grandfather, Abu Mahdhurah, saying in the Fajr Prayer Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm.[309]

This document is also invalid, since Ibrahim Ibn Isma’il Ibn Abd al-Malik has explicitly been criticized.[310]

In concluding from the traditions narrated about tathwib, it should be said that, first, as we know, the documents of these traditions are doubtful and unacceptable. Second, even if these traditions are not considered as doubtful, they undoubtedly cannot be followed. The reason is that they are in contrast with those true ones stating that Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm is a phrase added by people’s own approbation, after the time of the Prophet (a.s). As a result, both groups of traditions are invalid and thus unacceptable. Therefore, there is no proof for the inclusion of tathwib in the Adhan, or its recommendation after the Adhan.

http://www.al-islam.org/shiism_in_sunnism/6.htm

Scholars’ Views on the Origin of Tathwib

Imam Malik says, in Al-Muwatta’:

“It has been narrated to us that the caller to the Prayer came to Umar for the Morning Prayer and found him asleep; he said, “Prayer is preferred to sleep. (Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm)” Umar therefore ordered to include this phrase in the Adhan for the Morning Prayer.”[287]

As is seen, it is explicitly mentioned in this tradition that Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm is an addition to the Adhan made by Umar and has nothing to do with the original Adhan of Islam. Thus Muhammad Ibn Al-Hasan Al-Shaybani, in Al-Muwatta’, stipulates that Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm is not related to the Adhan. His exact viewpoint is that “Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm is said after the Adhan and since it is not a part of it, it is not obligatory to add.”[288]

Suyuti, in Tanwir Al-Hawalik, explaining the document of this tradition, says:

What Malik has narrated from Umar is also narrated by Al-Darqutni in his Sunan with two documents; one is narrated by Waki’, in his Musannaf, from Muhammad Ibn Ajlan from Nafi’ from Umar’s son from Umar who instructed his Muezzin (caller to Adhan), “When you reach Hayya Ala al-Falah in the Morning Adhan, you should say Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm twice.” [289]

Zurqani narrates the same issue in Ta’liqah.[290] Master Sunni biographists have validated the narrators in both document chains and in general, there is no fallacy in the documents cited by the Sunni jurisprudents.[291] Shawkani, about Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm, quotes the following from Al-Bahr Al-Zukhar:

When Umar invented this phrase, his son told him, “This is heresy.” When hearing this phrase, Ali is narrated as saying, “Do not add anything to the Adhan.” The author of Al-Bahr Al-Zukhar, after citing the tradition of Abu Mahdhurah and Bilal says, “If tathwib were religiously allowed, Ali, Ibn Umar and Tawus would not deny it.” As a conclusion from the traditions, we accept this issue (tathwib), not religiously, but if said as an additional part of Adhan.[292]

It is narrated from Abu Hanifah from Hammad from Ibrahim in Jami’ Al-Masanid…

I asked him about tathwib and he replied, “People have made tathwib and it is a good thing they have made. Tathwib includes saying Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm twice, after Adhan.” Imam Muhammad Ibn Hasan Shaybani has cited this tradition in Athar from Abu Hanifah saying, “This is Abu Hanifah’s statement and we follow it.”[293]

It is narrated from Ibn Uyaynah from Al-Layth that Mujahid said:

“I was with Ibn Umar when we heard someone saying tathwib in the mosque. Ibn Umar said, ‘Let us get away from this heretic.’”[294]

Abu Dawud narrates this occurrence from Mujahid about the Noon or Evening Prayer.[295]

Ibn Jurayj says:

Amr Ibn Hafs informed me that Sa’d, a muezzin, was the first to say Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm. That was during Umar’s reign. At first, Umar told him that it was a heresy, but left it to himself later. Balabil did not say Adhan for Umar.[296]

Ibn Jurayj says:

Hasan Ibn Muslim informed me that someone asked Tawus, “When was Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm first called out?” He replied, “That was not called during the Prophet’s reign. After his demise, in the reign of Abu Bakr, Balabil heard this phrase from a man who was not a caller to Adhan. So, he learnt it and called out Adhan with it from then on. Abu Bakr was a little while alive after this happening. Then in his reign, Umar said, “It would be better if we prohibit Balabil from what he has invented.” But he apparently forgot this issue and people called out Adhan with this phrase up to the present time.[297]

Though a little difference is noticed between the first and second traditions, they share the same concept; that is tathwib and Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm was established after the Messenger of Allah (a.s). Anyway, the tradition of Malik with the document of Al-Darqutni and the testimony of famous and master Sunni jurisprudents suffice for proving it.

http://www.al-islam.org/shiism_in_sunnism/6.htm

Discussion on Tathwib

The second issue of controversy among the Sunni and Shia jurisprudents is tathwib. There is also controversy over it among the Sunni jurisprudents themselves. It has been said, “Tathwib means return and is therefore returning to calling out to prayers. When it is called out Hayya Ala al-Salat, people are invited to prayers; when Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm is called out, there is a returning to the same phrase which means inviting to the prayers. It is quoted from Al-Mughrib that the traditional tathwib is the same calling out of Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm in the Fajr Prayers twice and the recent one is calling out Al-Salat Al-Salat (prayer, prayer) or Qaamat Qaamat (Prayer is established). Another meaning of tathwib is saying Hayya Ala al-Salat and Hayya Ala al-Falah each twice between Adhan and iqamah.”[280]

Anyway, whatever meaning tathwib may have, it is not included in Adhan and iqamah, but is something added later. Since the common meaning of tathwib is to say Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm we focus on it in this discussion. Ibn Rushd in Bidayah Al-Mujtahid, about the controversy over this issue, says:

The jurisprudents are not in agreement whether Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm should be said in the Morning Adhan or not. Most of them believe that it should be said, but some do not agree with it, since it was not so in the Adhan of the Prophet. Shafi’i believes so. The difference in this issue is that whether this phrase was said in the Prophet’s reign or added in Umar’s.[281]

The following is quoted from Al-Muhadhab:

In case of the Morning Adhan, after Hayya Ala al-Salat and Hayya Ala al-Falah, tathwib—saying Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm should be added twice. But in the recent verdicts, to say this phrase is undesirable.[282]

In Al-Majmu’, it is written that Abu Hanifah did not accept tathwib in this way and in Sharh Kabir, some people such as Ibn Umar, Hasan, Malik, Sufyan Thawri, Ishaq and Shafi’i believe in tathwib (in its common sense). Abu Hanifah said, “Tathwib between Adhan and iqamah for the Morning Prayer is to say Hayya Ala al-Salat and Hayya Ala al-Falah each twice.[283] Nearly the same is narrated in Al-Mughni.[284] Anyhow, in both books, the tradition of Abu Mahdhurah is adduced for tathwib. This tradition says, “In case of the Morning Prayer, you should say, ‘Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm…”

It should be born in mind that some people have considered tathwib as external to Adhan. In Al-Mabsut, after quoting a tradition, Sarakhsi says, “This tradition is an argument for tathwib being after Adhan (not a part of it).”[285] After some more lines, he says, “People created this tathwib.[286] People of Kufah added Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm to the Adhan and set the tathwib between Adhan and iqamah as two times of Hayya Ala al-Falah.

Now that the controversy of the Sunni jurisprudents themselves about tathwib became clear, we conclude that tathwib and even Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm is not included in Adhan and to say it between Adhan and iqamah is not recommended at all because nothing has been revealed about it, nor is there any recommendation about it by the Prophet (a.s). Rather it is a phrase included in Adhan after the Prophet (a.s) by some of the Companions’ personal desire. Authentic evidences, to be discussed later on, are present in the Sunni traditions proving our claim

http://www.al-islam.org/shiism_in_sunnism/6.htm

Hayya Ala Khayr al-Amal


Besides what is enormously narrated from the Ahl al-Bayt (a.s) about the inclusion of Hayya Ala Khayr al-Amal in both Adhan and iqamah, various traditions have been narrated by the Sunnis. Bayhaqi, in Al-Sunan Al-Kubra, has a chapter entitled, باب: ما رُويَ في حَيَّ عَلى خَيْرِ العَمَلِ“Chapter: Narrations About Hayya Ala Khayr al-Amal” Here, we mention some of these traditions as quoted from Al-Sunan Al-Kubra and other sources and then bring some Sunni scholars’ confirmation of them.

Ibn Umar used to say, in Adhan, Allahu Akbar and Ashhadu An La Ilaha Illa Allah three times each. Then, he probably said Hayya Ala Khayr al-Amal (Hurry to the best of deed) after Hayya Ala al-Falah (Hurry to salvation).

The document of this tradition, as narrated in Al-Muwatta’ by Muhammad Ibn Al-Hasan Al-Shaybani, is, “Malik narrated from Nafi’ and he narrated from Ibn Umar that… etc.”[264] Regarding the regularities common among our Sunni brothers, who can question the validity of this tradition’s document? Bukhari, too, writes about this document, “The most valid documentation of a tradition is that narrated by Malik from Nafi’ from Ibn Umar. Hakim has quoted this statement of Bukhari from Muhammad Ibn Isma’il Al-Bukhari.[265] Ibn Hajar has also mentioned it in the biography of Nafi’ in Tahdhib Al-Tahdhib.

Ibn Umar used not to say Adhan when he was in travel; he rather used to say Hayya Ala al-Falah and, sometimes, Hayya Ala Khayr al-Amal.

Muhammad Ibn Sirin, about Ibn Umar, said, “Ibn Umar used to say Hayya Ala Khayr al-Amal in Adhan.”

Nasir Ibn Dha’luq has narrated the same thing about Ibn Umar while he was in a travel, as he has quoted from Abu Umamah.

Ibn Hazm, in his Al-Muhalla, writes, “It is indeed proven that Ibn Umar and Ibn Umamah, son of Sahl Ibn Hunayf, used to say in the Adhan Hayya Ala Khayr al-Amal; and this has been proven by the most valid documents.”[266]

Ali Ibn Al-Husayn (a.s) used to follow Hayya Ala al-Falah by Hayya Ala Khayr al-Amal in the Adhan saying, “The primary Adhan[267] was like this.”[268]

Halabi, in Sirah, says, “Ibn Umar and Imam Zayn Al-Abidin Ali Ibn Al-Husayn, after Hayya Ala al-Falah used to say Hayya Ala Khayr al-Amal.”[269]

Whenever Ibn Umar said Hayya Ala al-Falah in Adhan, he followed it by Hayya Ala Khayr al-Amal. Then he said Allahu Akbar…[270]

The editor of the book writes down as footnote, “This tradition is narrated by Ibn Abi Shaybah from Ibn Ajlan and Ubaydullah from Nafi’ from Ibn Umar.[271] The narrators reported by Ibn Abi Shaybah are generally accepted by all Sunni jurisprudents.[272]

Bilal used to say Hayya Ala Khayr al-Amal during calling for the Fajr (Dawn) Prayer, but the Messenger of Allah ordered him to say Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-nawm (Prayer is preferred to sleep) instead.[273]

The only problem posed by the author of Majma’ al-Zawa’id about this tradition is the existence of Abdul Rahman Ibn Ammar Ibn Sa’d among the narrators. However, by reference to Rijal books, it becomes clear that no one has totally rejected him. Ibn Habban, in contrast, has considered him among the trustworthy narrators. It is interesting that despite these valid traditions recorded in the most authentic books of the Sunnis, Ibn Taymiyah says, “Hayya Ala Khayr al-Amal is added by the heretic.”[274] Nawawi has rejected it in Al-Majmu’. The major problem that some people have mentioned about Hayya Ala Khayr al-Amal is that the practice of Ibn Umar and Abu Umamah, the Companions, is not proof and the traditions about their practice are not successive.

It should be said, in reply, that, first, some people regard the tradition and speech of the Companions as proof, as is quoted from Abu Hanifah, “We follow whatever we inherit from the Companions and investigate those of their followers and may oppose them.”[275] Sarakhsi, too, says in Usul, “Our scholars, both the past and the late, have no difference in the fact that the speech of a Companion is proof in an issue which cannot be obtained by Qiyas.”[276] In saying Hayya Ala Khayr al-Amal, there is undoubtedly no analogy. Second, in some of the traditions, previously cited and others, Hayya Ala Khayr al-Amal is attributed to the time of the Prophet (a.s) and his own assertion.[277]

According to these traditions, the Prophet ordered to replace Hayya Ala Khayr al-Amal with Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm in the Adhan of the Fajr (Morning) Prayer; yet, this does not harm our intention, since as is explicit in the tradition, this substitution is only for the Adhan of the Fajr Prayer. Therefore, the Adhan of the other Prayers should include Hayya Ala Khayr al-Amal as stipulated in the same tradition. Moreover, this tradition is in contrast with the traditions that deny tathwib in Adhan and shows clearly that Al-Salat Khayrun Min al-Nawm is something added after the Prophet (a.s).[278]

The probability of the abrogation of Hayya Ala Khayr al-Amal is also impossible, since if it were so, Ibn Umar, Abu Umamah and others would be informed and it would be meaningless to mention it in their Adhan. Furthermore, traditions narrated from the Ahl al-Bayt (a.s) stipulate that Hayya Ala Khayr al-Amal is a major part of Adhan in all occasions, which is revealed to the honorable Prophet.[279]

http://www.al-islam.org/shiism_in_sunnism/6.htm

BetaThings:

That statement in bold shows that you are far away from being satisfied with what the Prophet (PBUH) left for us. You need innovation. Sunnis don't
Belief in Ali (RA) is not one of the Pillars of Islam. Shias might have that belief. We don't
As regards testimony, Why Ali (RA)? Why was it not put there during the time of the Prophet (PBUH)
Perhaps you are saying that if people start persecuting Muslims and spreading false tales about Muslims, Muslims should amend the adhan to include "islam is the religion of peace"?
Or you suggest all the beliefs should be in the adhan then - Belief in the books, last day, qadar, Messengers etc. No?
The way you guys amend your own doctrine is baffling!

if what we include in the adhan as mustahab (something that is done out of preference),the clause that "Aliyun Waliullah",how can you say that is not a pillar in Islam? go back to Quran verse 5:55. the clause in the adhan is stated based on verse 5:55.i hope you have read the Quran previously,and you know what that clause is.and the clause is there,regardless if you believe "wali" means "friend" or "master". in the Quran you can derive many pillars of Islam,and testimonies a Muslim believe in,like Qiyama,the prophets,the angels,paradise,hell fire,etc.this is no bid'ah if it is found in the Quran.

Utter falsehood. Whenever you want to twist whatever anything Muslims do, you go to your normal culprit - Umar (RA)
Although it is to be noted that we will never agree on these things. Just tell us what Shias do and your sources to save space
Anyway your hero is an expert in that business. As we can see

I believe you do not read what others present as evidence.you should deal with facts in Sunni books to see clearly Umar tampered with the adhan as the Sunnis pronounce it.i will copy in my next post the relevant info and post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H6LtZTxxPg

it is only just to call a liar a liar.if Ayatollah al-Haidary said he would prove how she was deceitful and a liar,then show us the video in which he did that.there are historical records we can examine.however,it still doesn't mean we would use offensive words on Aisha,more than what is proven.if the Prophet (s) said he would cut off the hand of his own daughter if she is caught stealing,then there is nothing offensive in proving wrong what another person has said or reported.in fact one of the greatest insult the Prophet (s) get from non-muslims,is based on the hadiths from Aisha that she was an infant when the Prophet (s) married her.and historical records aside from the hadiths in Bukhari,present the fact that Aisha was far above the age she claims when she was married by the Prophet (s).

ghazzal:
the verse is rukoo but the hadith says Ali(ra) was kneeling down. that is a major difference.

Rukoo=kneeling down

can i also becon to the begger at the door so i can give alms since no one has given him anything? If you are praying, how will you even know a begger was not given anything, i dont thing you will be monitoring a begger while praying o!

MAy GOD GUIDE US ARIGHT My BROTHER

ghazzal:

This is from your first post. is kneeling down a state of "bowing down"? i am convinced something is wrong with that interpretation it is just very clear.

It was a mistake if I used the word "prostrate".I must have mistakenly translated Rukoo (bowing on your knees/kneeling) as "prostration"/sujood (forehead on the ground).the verse has to do with rukoo and not sujood.

also

please answer me, does the avove mean i can give alms while praying? remember that the ways of your Lorrd will never change!

May God in his mercy guide us with the light of the Quran

The verse does not order you to give alms while you pray as a direct order.the verse orders you on the question of imamate/leadership/wilayah/mastership and who you must obey as an order from above.however,in the event the scenario upon which the verse was revealed repeats itself with you,then you can out of a sincere action offer alms while praying.

ghazzal: MY Brother,

are you saying that it is Allahs favour on us to give alms while we pray? I wont think so. may God guide us.

yes. reason. i believe reason is a product of thought, it must be concieved first. What are the available evidence and what does the prophet teach/ Quran - no evidence should supercede these i believe you know that.


clarify please, is the word "postrate" or "bow" in the Hadith, did Ali(ra) have his head and nose on the floor or was he in ruku position? or how do we define postrate/bow- bow is actually a better word for ra`kiu`n? this was described earlier in this tread- and tell me how he fits into your explanation of those "who give alms while they bow"
i believe the use of "while" is a better option than "and". Humility is best when you give and not after. (e.g you give alms while smiling and not give alms and/then smile) who needs the smile after?(God forgive me
may God in his mercy guide us to the right path-amin

It was in Rukoo (bowing down on the knees).but regardless,replacing "bow" with "humble themselves",instead of the direct action, which is "bowing", to show humility,doesn't make any difference as I earlier explained.

Using "while" or "and" is not a matter of choice of word,especially when it is arabic words involved,and the usage of the particular word in the verse that is only correctly reflected with "while" instead of "and",sends the message of an action carried out.the verse says "wa hoom rakioon" (while they're bowing down),not "wa hoom yarkaoon" (and they bow) to generalize that muslims bow in humility or something they do generally.in english such play with words can go unnoticed,but not in arabic where every word and its usage carries an action or message.

ghazzal:

are you being predictive here or suspecious of the Sunnis. May most High God in his mercy forgive us and guide us aright. right is evident from wrong and whoever does either of the two does it for his own soul.

What the Quran taught is to be Muslims and not sunni ar shia, and Muslims aught to come together and reason. Sincerity in reasonong together is very important and whoever is deceitful does such to his own soul.

Going by deeds, actions and believes, I am not Shia and i also cannot claim to be sunni. I am and i pray to remain a Muslim Sincere to the Message of the Quran and teaching of the Prophet. May God make it easy, grant us his mercy and understanding. Most importantly, make it easy for us to put foward good deeds that will be beneficial for us on the Great day.

can you please explain this verse - Qur’an 18:83-86—And they ask you about Dhul-Qarnain. Say: “I shall recite to you something of his story.” Verily, We established him in the earth, and We gave him the means of everything. So he followed a way. Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people?.

While we know we have Hadiths that cannot be trusted and i believe that Shaitan in his schemes would have mixed these hadiths up such that we cannot separate all authentic hadiths from the false ones. It leaves us with 2 things: Our judgement, without bias, with sincererity and truthfulness- We are created with the power to diffrentiate wright from Wrong - its a great tool. also, we have the Quran- The message given to Muhammed (saw). even the Quran has to be interpreted with sincererity and it matters what way you understand it. (sometimes, Quranic explanation is idiomatic and such cases should always be obvious)

What do we know about solat but that it is a ritual right, a responsibility. Pray as if you are in front of your Lord, as if he sees you. We know of a sohaba, the story that when he was praying, a substance that pierced into his feet was removed and he did not know it- Praying with full concentration. This is expected of a muslim when you are in front of your Lord.

The message of the Quran was evident in the live of the Prophet. The prophet lived the Quran lets forget about who brought this Hadith, it is fundamental in a muslims belief to know this except to say that the Prophet would have lied or is an Hypocrate (may God forgive us and Bless the Prophet) so i have a Question here - Should a muslim think that the prophet Muhammed will advise someone to perform another act while praying - to shift attention from prayer in the course of praying?

consider that any action in the Quran that is not conditioned is permisible for muslims to do. but the Quran will not contradict itself nor will the prophet contradict the Quran - so the easiest way to validate an Hadith is to check the Quran (as shaitan is at liberty to mess up with the Hadith as its just another history book like the Bible- God in his mercy to guide man has promised to protect the Quran from such)

With all being read, Qur’an 18:83-86 above shows us that idomatic expressions are used in the Quran so i ask a Question, what should be a muslims opinion (sincere in thought and judgement) about Quran 5:55?
Could most High God have given us a reason to give alma while praying as this action is not conditioned based on some claims, or could it have been a verse that teaches moral expectations of a muslims and what to look for in people to be appointed as leaders?



i sincerely think it says"...pay the poor rate while they humble themselves(with humility)" it is similar to the verse that teaches about giving with the right hand while the left hand does not know of it.

May most high God in his mercy guide us aright, grant us understanding of his message and grant us his mercy

"Have you not consider those who turned the blessing of Allah into disbelief and led their people into the abode of loss" (Holy Quran 14:28)

islam isn't about what anyone thinks,but about what it actually is and what's based on evidence and reason.whether you substitute (play with words) "prostration" with "humility",the key word is still "while".the conjunction is not "and".if it would have been "pay the poor charity and they 'humble' themselves",then you'd have a point.not even twisting the verse by changing the word "prostrate" with "humble themselves" to hide the direct action of how we "humble ourselves" in prayer can help your case.

You can assist yourself and review this:

https://www.nairaland.com/1001212/why-it-bidah-forbidden-sinful