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Islam for Muslims / Re: Wahhabism, Jihad And Boko Haram by Zhulfiqar1: 9:30pm On Oct 02, 2014
vedaxcool: Sunni prisoners held in the Iranian city of Karaj allege that they were subjected to severe torture including the use of electric shocks, Human Rights Watch (HRW) said in a report released on Monday.
The report, ‘Locked Up in Karaj, Spotlight on Political Prisoners in One Iranian City’, focuses on political prisoners held in three prisons in the northern city of Karaj in Iran.
Extracts from the report which detail the condition of Sunni prisoners of conscience have been reproduced below:

“Many of the prisoners held in this room describe themselves as Sunni activists or “missionaries” who support a strict, literalist interpretation of Sunni Islam, a source familiar with these cases told Human Rights Watch. Most are from Iran’s Kurdish or Baluch communities but some are citizens of foreign countries, according to the same source.
” [p44]
“The judiciary has issued death sentences for at least 33 of these prisoners and they are at imminent risk of execution. Human Rights Watch believes most of the men were arrested by Intelligence Ministry officials in the western province of Kordestan in 2009 and 2010, and held in solitary confinement during their pretrial detention for several months without access to a lawyer or relatives. Thirty one of them were tried by Branch 28 of the Revolutionary Court of Tehran, while one was tried by Branch 15 of the Revolutionary Court of Tehran and another by a branch of the Revolutionary Court of Sanandaj.” [p45]
“Several sources familiar with the cases of six of these prisoners— Hamed Ahmadi, Jamshid Dehghani, Jahangir Dehghani, Kamal Molaei, Sedigh Mohammadi, and Seyed Hadi Hosseini— told Human Rights Watch that all six deny that they killed anyone or had any involvement in violent acts.”
“The men allege severe torture, including the use of electric shocks and threats of sexual assault, prolonged solitary confinement, and coerced confessions at the hands of Intelligence Ministry officials during their pretrial detention in the city of Sanandaj in Kurdistan Province.”
Ahmadi, Jahangir Dehghani, Jamshid Dehghani and Molaei are accused of killing Mullah Mohammad Sheikh al-Islam, a senior Sunni cleric with ties to the Iranian authorities. They have denied the accusation, saying that they were arrested between June and July 2009, several months before the sheikh’s killing, in September. Their trial took place in Branch 28 of Tehran’s Revolutionary Court and took no longer than 10 minutes, during which they were not allowed to offer a defense.”
“The Supreme Court upheld their death sentences in September 2013, and the sentences have been sent to the Office for the Implementation of Sentences, the official body in charge of carrying out executions. The men are considered to be at imminent risk of execution.”
“Before appearing before the judge none of the six knew that they had been charged with “enmity against God” or that they could receive death sentences.”
“As of June 2014, the Supreme Court also confirmed the death sentences of four other members of the group—Seyed Jamal Mousavi, Abdorahman Sangani, Sedigh Mohammadi and Seyed Hadi Hosseini. The other 25 men remain on death row pending review by the Supreme Court.” [p47]
Source: Human Rights Watch (HRW): Locked Up in Karaj, Spotlight on Political Prisoners in One Iranian City, August 18, 2014. ISBN: 978-1-62313-1531
download report here\
Let me sound like one unrepentant hypocrite i this thread, I thank ... for posting this with "independent" as source knowing that other websites like sunniprison posted the caption. It is people like them that will first comment its a sunni propaganda. Now its "american" propaganda.
what is the difference between someone who kills you after a 10min trial and a suicide bombing!

this is how the minds of fanatical, extremist Sunnis, aka Wahhabis/Salafist, work: they commit terrorism, kill innocent people, preach hatred, and call for the killings of all those who do not share their Wahhabi/Salafist ideology; when they get caught in Iran, Syria or any non-Sunni led state, they then claim to either be "Sunni civilians", "missionaries", "preachers" or "activists". worst, they would always pretend to be the victims, oppressed, marginalized and wronged, even when they take up arms to massacre others.

recently, the british police arrested the Salafist terror preacher, Anjem Choudry. when this man used to spew his venom, no Sunni fanatic would have the conscience to stop him. but when he gets arrested or sentenced, they would quickly forget his support for terrorism and point that he was a "preacher". yes, you can be a preacher, missionary, activist and even the pope himself, and still be a terror sponsor or terror mastermind, or out rightly a terrorist.

when the Sunni tyrant, Saddam was deposed, and the power shifted to the majority Shia in Iraq, it was the Sunni extremists-aka Wahhabis/Salafists- as usual who went on a killing spree of Shia faithfuls through suicide bombings, car bombs, beheading, and shootings. now you would point out that a Shia group bombed a Sunni mosque in "retaliatory attack". over a million Shia have been killed in Iraq since 2003 and their places of worship and even holy places desecrated and attacked; not by the american occupiers, but by so called Muslims who claim to believe in Allah (swt), yet their inhumanity is worse than beasts. yet still, while the Wahhabi/Salafist bloodsuckers boast in their killings of Shia "rafidis" and Christian kuffar, the Shia group that is accused by the bloodsuckers never come out to claim responsibility for killing innocent Sunni worshipers because bombing any place of worship is haram and not part of the faith of the Shia Muslims, and no Shia scholar would authorize that in the name of Islam or our doctrines. we do not accept responsibility for the death of Sunni worshipers, like your bloodsuckers not only accept, but cheer in targeting Shia and Christian worshipers in their places of worship. we do not accept...no be by force now!!! what is even more cynical is when Shia groups combat Wahhabi/Salafist bloodsuckers, and videos are released of how those coward bloodsuckers are eradicated, Sunni fanatics behind their keyboards would claim that those bloodsuckers are "Sunni civilians". they will not see that those bloodsuckers are cowards who can only succeed in committing suicide bombings against helpless civilians, and they cannot stand face to face to fight on the battlefield. the same happened in syria. the bloodsuckers would attack the syrian army, and when they get flushed, their propagandists claim those bloodsuckers are "sunni civilians". the same too might have happened or will happen in Nigeria. boko haram would kill innocent civilians, and attack the Nigerian army. when the army flush them out, propagandists claim that those bloodsuckers were "civilians" killed by the army. when would Sunnis, Wahhabi/Salafists or not, be true, sincere and honest to themselves? the atrocities you are committing have nothing to do with Islam, the Quran or Allah (swt), and you are the guilty party in all of these crimes against humanity.


Islam for Muslims / Re: Wahhabism, Jihad And Boko Haram by Zhulfiqar1: 9:13pm On Oct 02, 2014

Saudi Arabia Beheads 26 People in 1 Month, Some for ‘Sorcery': US, FOX Has Nothing to Say About it (Images)

Posted by: Richard Rowe in Crime, Economic Issues, Image Gallery, World September 5, 2014

We condemn ISIS’ public beheadings, but in 2012-13, our allies in Saudi Arabia cut the heads off of 79 people.

Let’s play “Compare and Contrast” for a moment: Two oppressive, authoritarian Muslim regimes acting under the auspices of Sharia Law publicly behead scores of non-violent people, primarily to instill fear in those who might resist said regime’s self-asserted authority over the region.

People whose heads are cut off are disproportionately foreign nationals, or locals with religious or ideological differences. One of them is ISIS, the other is the government of Saudi Arabia. Which one are we bombing again?

Public beheading in Saudi Arabia. Photo: SaudiArabian.TV.

In 2012 and 2013, Saudi Arabia cut the heads off of 79 people for various “crimes” throughout the nation, and it looks like they’re trying to hit the same target this year. Unfortunately, there was a bit of a slowdown earlier in the year, so Saudi Arabia is doing its best to catch up and maintain its previous record.

But Saudi Arabia’s beheadings aren’t just about keeping a title. As London researcher Sevag Kechichian told Al Jazeera:

“One of the reasons behind the surge in executions could be that the Saudi Arabian authorities want to send a strong message that the regime is stable, and does not tolerate breaches of the law in the aftermath of the 2011 uprising and calls for reform in Saudi Arabia including by the country’s Shia Muslim community.”

Saudi Arabian officials display the beheaded bodies of five Yemeni nationals. Photo: The Commentator.

While some would say that the killings aren’t politically motivated (at least in the sense that protesters aren’t being arrested en masse in the Eastern Provinces and beheaded), the King certainly looks to be sending a message since the Qatif protests began in 2011.

Prior to 2011, Saudi Arabia averaged about 27 executions a year; when the King announced a “crackdown” of law enforcement, that number multiplied by three times over almost immediately. And there the figure has stayed. A few examples:
•Once of those beheaded was a prominent Shia cleric named Nimir al Nimir, who was executed for “inciting violence” in his speeches, and “supporting unrest” in his native, heavily Shia area of Qatif.
•Four of those decapitated on August 18th were a family convicted for smuggling “large quantities of cannabis” into the country. They maintained that they were framed by police for the crime, and were tortured into giving false confessions. The appeal was summarily dismissed by a higher court, and the family was executed.
•A man was executed the next day for “sorcery.” And he is far from the first. A similar execution took place in 2012 for a man convicted of possessing “books and talismans,” Between 2011 and 2012, at least five women were decapitated for “witchcraft,” and the practice continues unabated today.

Yet another public beheading in Saudi Arabia. Photo: IBTimes.

Of course, a fair number of the beheadings were for murder convictions and rape, both punishable by death in Saudi Arabia. But just as many were for any one of the following:
•Apostacy (leaving Islam)
•Drug Use

In fact, the Saudis love chopping heads so much, that from 2007 to 2012 alone, fully 6.8 percent of all executions in the world (excluding China, which doesn’t publish figures) were committed by Saudi Arabia. This in a nation that only contains about 0.3 percent of the world’s population — that’s about 22 times the rate of the per-capita average worldwide. And it’s getting higher. Almost all of them were decapitations; in fact, statistically, almost all of annual decapitations worldwide are state-sanctioned killings in Saudi Arabia. Many of them are foreign nationals who have done nothing more egregious than cross the will of the ruling theocracy.

And…FOX News says…what, exactly?

Again, there are those who’d say “Well, Saudi Arabia is a strict country — the laws are the laws, and the punishments are the punishments.” And yes, that’s true…except, it isn’t.

Saudi Arabia has no codified system of crime and punishment the way we do, insofar as specific offenses warrant specific punishments. The King of Saudi Arabia appoints state-sanctioned religious clerics to act as judges, and those judges are free to hand out any sentence they like for any crime they like, and are not bound by the presentation of evidence or burden of proof. In short, in Saudi Arabia, if a judge wants you dead, you’re dead. Guilty or innocent, you’re dead. Much as in our own Salem Witch Trials, the only “evidence” required is an accusation.

And even more to the point, a judge is free to not sentence you to death, or even imprisonment, even if you are rightfully convicted of something as egregious as murder. Saudi judges hold absolute power, and are accountable to no one but the King himself.

And that King wants to send a message.

So, let’s go back to Compare and Contrast between ISIS and Saudi Arabia:

•Both ISIS and Saudi Arabia are lead by fundamentalist religious extremists.
•Both ISIS and Saudi Arabia routinely oppress the will of the native population, particularly religious minority groups.
•Both ISIS and Saudi Arabia embrace foreign nationals who support the will of the regime.
•Both ISIS and Saudi Arabia routinely and publicly behead people who oppose the authority or will of the current regime.
•Both ISIS and Saudi Arabia are free to chop the heads off of citizens and foreign nationals without any accountability to anyone but the rulers of the regime.
•Both ISIS and Saudi Arabia do so in order to send a message of fear to those who oppose them.
•Neither ISIS nor Saudi Arabia need any proof of wrongdoing in order to stage a public beheading.
•Both ISIS and Saudi Arabia perform these public beheadings in the name of God.

•Saudi Arabia is an ally who sells us oil for cheap, whereas ISIS is sitting on oil fields we don’t control.
•Saudi Arabia is friends with Israel, whereas ISIS is not.
•Saudi Arabia has its own nationalized oil fields, whereas ISIS is threatening the Israeli-held shale oil fields in Syria, in the occupied Golan Heights.
•Saudi Arabia is friends with FOX and its British cousin SKY, whereas ISIS is directly threatening the Israeli-held shale oil fields owned by Rupert Murdoch (FOX) and Jacob Rothschild (SKY).
•Saudi Arabian oil money funded Osama Bin Laden, whereas ISIS oil money funds a bunch of guys who aren’t friends with the Bush family, American oil companies or conservative media billionaires.

•Saudi Arabian king tells Americans “ISIS jihadists will be beheading people in America in two months — you see how they carry out beheadings and make children show severed heads in the street. Respond to ISIS now with all necessary force and speed.”
•Whereas ISIS tells Americans “Stop bombing us.”

Saudi Arabian public beheading — a practice that American conservatives and Saudi Arabians called “savage, barbaric and animalistic” when ISIS did exactly the same.


1 Like

Islam for Muslims / Nigerian Troops Kill Sheik Zakzaky’s Son, Others In Zaria by Zhulfiqar1: 10:04pm On Jul 25, 2014
Nigerian Troops Kill Sheik Zakzaky’s Son, Others In Zaria

SaharaReporters has just confirmed that Mahumd Ibraheem Zakzaky, the son of Sheik Ibraheem Zakzaky, was among those gunned down by Nigerian soldiers in Zaria as a group held a rally in support of Palestinians on Israel’s invasion of Gaza.

Mahmud Zakzaky and a few other demonstrators were killed in the shooting this evening in the ancient town of Zaria.

In a statement issued by Ibrahim Musa, editor of the movement’s weekly magazine Almizan, and sent to the New York office of SaharaReporters, the Islamic group accused the military of killing several of its members with impunity. The statement also claimed that more than 40 other members sustained serious injuries.

“Reports reaching our news desk now indicated that some soldiers of the Nigerian army have opened fire on the tail end of the Quds procession held after Jumaat prayers in Zaria, Kaduna State. The procession, which took off from Sabon Gari Jumaat Mosque, reached Kofar Doka peacefully with no incident. However some soldiers attacked the procession [at the] PZ junction in Zaria.

“They shot Mahmud Ibraheem Zakzaky, but [his body] was taken away by the Muslim brothers. But several [other] Muslim brothers were shot by the security agents.

“As at the time of writing this report, there is no confirmation on the number of Muslim brothers shot or killed by the soldiers, but our says say five people were killed. The Quds procession was held today peacefully in more than 10 Nigerian cities. Why the attack on the Zaria procession?

“[The] latest report on the attack by soldiers on Quds peaceful procession is that ten Muslim brothers were gunned down by the soldiers, among them Mahmud Ibraheem Zakzaky, son of Sheikh Ibraheem Zakzaky, and a Muslim sister with her child on her back. There are over 40 Muslim brothers’ casualties with different degrees of gunshots by the soldiers. The story is still unfolding, with reinforcement of soldiers coming from Kaduna, according to our news sources.”

Islam for Muslims / Re: "Sunni Monarchs Back Hate Preachers:Anti-Shia Propaganda Threatens Muslim World" by Zhulfiqar1: 8:02pm On Jan 02, 2014
Saudi Arabia stokes anti-Shia sentiment: Analyst

File photo shows the site of a car bomb attack in Baghdad.

Thu Jan 2, 2014 4:23PM

The Saudis and the regional monarchies are funding Takfirism, thereby creating a sectarian Frankenstein's monster of fanatics beyond their control, an analyst says.

In a column for The Independent, Patrick Cockburn said Takfirism, financed by Riyadh and Persian Gulf monarchies, “is creating the ingredients for a sectarian civil war engulfing the entire Muslim world.”

“The [anti-Shia] hate propaganda is often gory and calls openly for religious war,” he wrote.

Cockburn added that “anti-Shia satellite television” stations financed mainly by Saudi regime seek to sully the image of Shias.

“Shia activists point in particular to the establishment in 2009 of two satellite channels, Safa TV and Wesal TV, which they accuse of having strong anti-Shia bias,” he wrote.

The analyst stated that Saudi clerics “have shown great skill in communicating extreme sectarian views through modern communications technology such as YouTube, Facebook and Twitter, giving them a much wider audience than they had previously enjoyed.”

He referred to a study conducted on foreign-backed militants operating in Syria, saying they mainly come from Saudi Arabia.

The great majority of the militants had joined the terrorist Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant and the al-Qaeda-linked al-Nusra Front, both of which are highly sectarian organizations, he added.

“A deeply dangerous development is that the foreign fighters, inspired by film of atrocities and appeals to religious faith, may sign up to go to Syria but often end up as suicide bombers in Iraq, where violence has increased spectacularly in the past 12 months,” wrote Cockburn.

He said Saudi Arabia and its regional allies have funded satellite television networks “central to the resurgence of al-Qaeda across the Middle East, to a degree that Western politicians have so far failed to grasp.”

Cockburn noted that the Saudi regime and other monarchies continue to support Takfiri groups “through private donations.”

Saudi Arabia has played a major role in activating the sanctuaries and safe havens for al-Qaeda in Iraq and has ensured that there would be an effective recruitment by creating the ideal environment through sectarian rhetoric and divisions.

Takfiri terrorist groups who kill Muslims, including women and children, in bomb attacks in Iraq and Syria, follow the Wahhabi ideology.

Wahhabism which is practiced in Saudi Arabia is disavowed by Shia and Sunni Muslims.


Islam for Muslims / Re: Egyptian Gov't Declares Muslim Brotherhood "Terrorist Group" by Zhulfiqar1: 11:13pm On Dec 27, 2013
it looks like some people really dont understand that takfirism (religious edicts calling others "kuffar" and killing the "kuffar" on that premise ) and takfiri terror/killings are the core of the wahhabi/salafist ideology.
Islam for Muslims / Re: 15 Million Pilgrims At 2013 Arbaeen Commemoration In Kar'bala by Zhulfiqar1: 2:02pm On Dec 27, 2013
Arbaeen in Zaria

Islam for Muslims / Re: Why Did They Burnt The Hadith? My Humble Question Pls! by Zhulfiqar1: 11:27pm On Dec 02, 2013
Umar ibn Adheena asked Imam Jafar Sadiq (as):

"People claim that Imam Ali married his daughter to such a person (i.e. Umar) '. The Imam (as), who was until then sitting down, stood up and said angrily, "Whoever holds such a viewpoint is misled." Subhanallah! Was Imam Ali unable to free his daughter from their clutches? He could have stood between them and her to protect, they have fabricated a lie"

Nasihk al-Tawarikh Volume 3 page 408,al-Kafi.

1 Like

Islam for Muslims / Re: Genocide Of Shia Muslims In Pakistan by Zhulfiqar1: 12:59pm On Dec 01, 2013
Watch Video Severed head of ex-navy man found hanging from bridge in Karachi

from Zeeshan haider 18 hours ago not yet rated

Takfiri Deobandi terrorists of Sipah Sahaba ASWJ Taliban behead a retired Pakistan Navy officer Saleem Raza, who was reportedly a converted Shia, and took his head away with them after beaheading him at his Sohrab Goth house.

Later, they drilled his head and hung it with a rope on Goth bridge with a notice saying this is revenge for Rawalpindi incident.

Islam for Muslims / Re: A Timeline Of Sectarian Terrorism Against Shia Muslims by Zhulfiqar1: 12:58pm On Dec 01, 2013
Watch Video : Severed head of ex-navy man found hanging from bridge in Karachi

from Zeeshan haider 18 hours ago

Takfiri Deobandi terrorists of Sipah Sahaba ASWJ Taliban behead a retired Pakistan Navy officer Saleem Raza, who was reportedly a converted Shia, and took his head away with them after beaheading him at his Sohrab Goth house.

Later, they drilled his head and hung it with a rope on Goth bridge with a notice saying this is revenge for Rawalpindi incident.

Islam for Muslims / Re: Cold Truth About UMAR IBN AL-KHATTAB! by Zhulfiqar1: 8:17pm On Nov 24, 2013
last i checked, you do this when you v been boxed to the corner. you didnt ansa him and yu are talking of derailing. he wants to know and i want to know too why Ali named his kids after dos companions yu hate so much. am sure yu cant name ur kid umar. yu probably wnt make a friend dah goes by dat name. if ur father in law dares bear the name, you wnt marry his daughter.

The reasons have already been stated,and Betathing himself mentioned one.but i'd repeat.

Those names were contemporary arabic names.they were then not solely associated to the three caliphs.when Imam Ali (as) or someone uses that name at that time,it was not to honor your caliphs.also Imam Ali (as) in particular had among his Shia staunch supporters in whose honor he named his children these names.they were the type of men who stood with the Imam (as) in battles in the battle of jamal and the battle of siffeen.now that the sunnis associate these names with particular individuals,the Shia refrain from using the names.simple logic.
Islam for Muslims / Re: Cold Truth About UMAR IBN AL-KHATTAB! by Zhulfiqar1: 8:12pm On Nov 24, 2013

It is always the case that some people appropriate control over good sense.
Why would Ali (RA) name his children after men who according to Shias are "devoid of good"?

You have a problem.he did not name them after those men whom you name your children those names after.it is you who give those names in honor of those 3.thus you see that even when our Imams (as) named their daughter "aisha",presently we dont use that name because you have come to associate the name with one person we dislike.even at that if a Shia is to name his child aisha or umar (an act when rightly understood is not forbidden),it is not in honor of those you associate with those names,but for the name itself.you already explained why he (Imam Ali) named his children those names,and you asked a question relating to Karbala.you are now going back.

If he named them after some of his supporters

Let us see Shias praise them loudly during commemoration of Karbala

So when our scholars mention them in Ashura lecture they whisper their names?

Seriously,your post doesnt deserve more than "ok" and a smile.you are exerting your efforts to avoid seeing the truth.
Islam for Muslims / Re: Cold Truth About UMAR IBN AL-KHATTAB! by Zhulfiqar1: 5:34pm On Nov 24, 2013
golpen: Our shia brothers can be very good at writing long long epistles and makes it difficult to finish their posts.

Anyway, I think we should better post more educative materials in which we young muslims can learn from, rather than the antagonistic ones.

Al-baqir, you should build on being a better muslim please. Your shia/sunni controversial posts is unislamic. I personally have not read a post of yours that enjoins muslims to be good, except for the ones you post to criticise sunni believes and curse the companions of the holy prophet (saw), speaking ill of them.

This is not a better way of portraying islam and even yourself. Please think about it.

you do not read "long epistles",so of what use would it be to post anything further?
Islam for Muslims / Re: Cold Truth About UMAR IBN AL-KHATTAB! by Zhulfiqar1: 5:31pm On Nov 24, 2013

You opened the threads right?
What was the intention? That they should not be discussed?
Please this is not elementary class.
There is no other reason than to hide the FACT that you have been denigrating sunnis
Insha Allah, we shall discuss everything.
As for dogmas, they are part of the very faith. Even the prohibition of abusing one's parents, is it not a dogma?

if you can bring me evidence that the Prophet (s) also "forgave" Umar on the Event of Pen and Paper,i am ready to take Umar as one of the "rightly guided caliphs" and also wish him well.indeed these incidents with Umar either disobeying,insulting or questioning the Prophet (s) are not one or two but several and each time,excuses! in fact in hudaibiyyah,it was not an issue about "forgive".the Prophet (s) doesn't force you to believe in his prophethood.the Prophet (s) simply did not judge Umar's intention while his action speaks.however the repetition of the "rudeness" cannot but make one to think that this wasn't some "rightly guided".
Islam for Muslims / Re: Cold Truth About UMAR IBN AL-KHATTAB! by Zhulfiqar1: 5:12pm On Nov 24, 2013
BetaThings: Ali ibn Talib (RA) had 18 children. These are their names.
1. Muhammad ibn al-Hanafia
2. Muhammad al-Asghar
3. Muhammad il-Awsat
4. Abbas “abul-fazil”
5. Abbas al-Asghar
6. Jafar al-Akbar
7. Jafar al-Assghar
8. Abdullah il-Asghar
9. Abdullah il-Akbar
10. Abdullah “Abi Ali”
11. Uthman al-Asghar
12. Uthman al-Akbar
13. Umar al-Akbar
14. Umar al-Asghar.
15. Abu Bakr ibn Ali
16. Al-Hasan
17. Al-Hussain
18. Awn

Yes, we have heard the retort - those names were commonplace. They did not mean that Ali loved those people
They are names of his supporters etc
We will even post a video (Insha Allah) of the most charismatic scholar (Amar) attempt at refutation of the reason why thise names cropped up so much

Okay - commonplace names. They were names of Ali's supporters
If so,
1. why do Shias of today not name their children the way Ali (RA) did?
2. Some of the people massacred at the incident of Karbala had same names as as those sahabas hated by Shias. Why do Shias not mourn them volubly like other "preferred" victims of that massacre?

Names of the Children of Shia's 3rd Imam - Hussayn who was massacred at Karbala
1. Ali
2. Ali
3. Fatima
4. Abdullah
5. Abdullah
6. Abdullah
7. Sukayna
8. Abbas
9. Abu Bakr
10. Uthman

Some of the victims of Karbala FORGITTEN by Shias
Abu Bakr son of Ali (RA)
Abu Bakr son of Hassan (RA)
Umar son of Ali (RA)
Uthman son of Ali (RA)

What do they have in common? - they are children and grandchidren of Ali
What do they have in common? - they were all murdered at Karbala
What do they have in common? - they bear sames names as sahabs detested by Shias
What do they have in common? - they are NOT mentioned when Karbala is being commemorated
Have you ever seen their names on those big banners during the commemoration of the Karbala tragedy?

But ask yourself - are they also "devoid of good" like the first three caliphs so hated by the Shias?
Note that the Shias never let us forget that a baby Ali Asghar was martyred at Karbala. His name is conspicuously mentioned during those commemorations

Names of the children of the 10th Shia Imam

1. Hasan
2. Husayn
3. Muhammad
4. Jafar
5. Aisha

I am happy again that we have signs of improvement.you know the answers to the points you raise.let us move further and let me answer the 2 or 3 questions you raised.insha'Allah you are a very intelligent person as I can see with a thirst for knowledge.we will deal with the points you raised.

1. why do Shias of today not name their children the way Ali (RA) did?

in the days of Imam Ali (as),people don't name their children as Sunnis do today after the first three sunni caliphs.in the present,centuries later,every sunni that bears that name does so because of they were the names of those caliphs the Shia consider usurpers and oppressive tyrants.times have changed.

let me also give you a very good example that should shock you.wearing a ring on the right hand is the SUNNAH OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD (s).what do Sunnis do today? sunnis do not wear rings on the right hand,but on the left hand.why? because the sunnah of wearing a ring on the right hand has become one that the Shia have held on to very tightly.it is easy to identify one as a Shia if he wears a ring on the right hand,and not on the left.the sunnis would not deny that it is the sunnah for the ring to be on the right hand,but they will tell you that they don't want to look like the Shia!!! sunnis have changed a sunnah of the Prophet (s) in order that they do not look like the Shia.then why do you blame the Shia for not naming their children certain names not to look like Sunnis? and take into mind that naming one's children is a matter of choice left for the parents to do.

2. Some of the people massacred at the incident of Karbala had same names as as those sahabas hated by Shias. Why do Shias not mourn them volubly like other "preferred" victims of that massacre?

it is your assumption that we do not mourn them "volubly" because of their names.and what exactly is "volubly" here? Karbala is about Imam Hussain (as).it is that simple.any other name or person is part of the details.even the army of yazeed that besieged Imam Hussain (as) in karbala made that known to everyone.Imam Hussain (as) himself told his Shia that they could leave as the enemies were only after him.those that remained steadfast in karbala did so because of Imam Hussain (as).when recounting the events in karbala,the killing of Ali al-Asghar (as)-Imam Hussain's 6 month old baby-is one of the chilling moments that can truly depict the magnanimity of the tragedy and the barbarity of the enemies of Ahlul-Bayt (as).it is the severity of the pain and how each person was killed that sometimes make a speaker or lecturer to emphasize more on one story than the other.Abu Bakr Ibn Ali (as) or the other children of Imam Ali (as) who were in Karbala to aid Imam Hussain (as) fought valiantly to defend the Imam (as).but how did a 6 months old baby fight that he deserve to be killed in cold-blood in his father's arm?

furthermore,hardly a year has passed with me listening to Ashura lectures that I have not heard the names of the other martyrs that fell in Karbala.be they the children of Imam Ali (as) you are citing or the companions of the Prophet (s) or the few Shia that remained with the Imam (as).they are mentioned.check every Shia text and you will find the names of the 73 companions of Imam Hussain (as) that were killed.but of course when someone is looking for fault,it is easy to find one.you can try to find more if you wish,and I can honestly aid you in doing just that.

similarly the name Aisha too has come to be associated with Aisha Bint Abu Bakr.there is no evidence whatsoever that our Imams (as) used those names because of the people Sunnis associate those names with.there is also no ruling in Islam that makes us as Shia naming our children with those names.we can name our children but we would rather not especially now because of what Sunnis have subscribed to those names.we do not name our children those names in order to disassociate ourselves from those these names have become attached to.however I do for instance know a Shia whose name is Khalid-"Khalid" being one of the names also the Shia prefer not to use for naming their children.

the points Betathing raised have to do solely about personal choice and preference.I hope this helps Mr. Betathing. smiley

1 Like

Islam for Muslims / Re: Cold Truth About UMAR IBN AL-KHATTAB! by Zhulfiqar1: 3:02pm On Nov 24, 2013
tbaba1234: 'Shia' Nonsense!!!

as you please! but please examine the evidence put forth in line with the Quran's ruling (of examining every news that come to you) before you rush to conclusion and judgment.thereafter,just may be,you would come up with a better term than Betathing's "RUDENESS".we are getting a step closer.little by little we will Insha'Allah open up what the Quran describes as the "locks upon the hearts".
Islam for Muslims / Re: Cold Truth About UMAR IBN AL-KHATTAB! by Zhulfiqar1: 2:56pm On Nov 24, 2013

Sister, just look at the post below. The Shias NEVER forgive people. NEVER

Let me explain.
Umar (RA) objected to the treaty of Hudaibiyyah the Prophet (SAW) signed with the people of Makkah. He (RA) believed that the Muslims were in the right and should not accept such a degrading agreement. Of course, this was rude.But the Prophet (SAW) forgave him as Umar (SAW) was never ostracized. However the Shias have never forgiven Umar (RA). They continue to emphasise it
The point is - did the Prophet (SAW) err in not referring to it again or for not banishing Umar (RA) or punishing him (RA) somehow for it?

I think we are making headways.alhamdulillah.

how dare you Mr. Betathing call a companion "rude"? are you now Shia? well you are getting a step closer with the right push.alhamdulillah.

in hudaibiyyah Umar is recorded to have asked the Prophet (s) if he is truly a prophet of God.he was doubting the prophethood.you can say the Prophet (s) forgave him.however who were the 12 that planned to assassinate the Prophet (s)? find out:

furthermore,did the "rudeness" stop at hudaibiyyah? what happened when the Prophet (s) was on the deathbed and the event of pen and paper? another "rudeness"! what happened to the refusal to join the expedition of Usama Ibn Zaid (ra) even after the Prophet's (s) insistence? another "rudeness"! these are all incidents/events that I am containing myself with in the very lifetime of the Prophet (s).we have not yet touched what happened after the death of the Prophet (s).how many more "rudeness" incidents took place? mind you,i am emphasizing the word "rudeness",because I am quoting you.if I am to describe those incidents,the word to describe the reality would exceed "rudeness",however grave being "rude" to the Prophet (s) entails-as the Quran commands that muslims should not even raise their voices higher than that of the Prophet (s)!

and for those asking why do we invest the present on people that have passed away over a 1000 years? in that case stop reading the Quran because it contains stories that happened thousands of years ago!!! stop reading the story of Moses (as) and of Pharoah!!! pharaoh is dead,isnt he? leave him in peace (of course going by your "logic",if I can call it that).we are taking here of people who shaped the history of islam and entrenched divisions among muslims,divisions that exist up to this very day.and the very same divisions are causing bloodshed of muslims in Iraq,pakistan,lebanon,syria,and elsewhere.why must we forget a problem that is impacting on our present and will impact on our future? if not for Umar,would you perform Taraweeh? I doubt it! that is just meant to serve as one example among the many others you honor as "islam" because of Umar.of course,now we should "forget" about the past because your eyes are cleared and you want to be spared facing the truth in order that you may remain in your comfort zones not to change your mentality.this is not what we are taught in the Quran.

and here is for you Mr.Betathing.you need to read if Abu Lulu,the man who killed Umar,was a Muslim or a Zoroastrian as Sunni apologists want us to believe:

Islam for Muslims / Re: Cold Truth About UMAR IBN AL-KHATTAB! by Zhulfiqar1: 6:06pm On Nov 23, 2013
@brother al-Baqir

please you still have more to post.enlighten us on what happened in Hudaibiyyah and also the night the Prophet (s) was saved from assassination by the 12 hypocrites who were cursed forever.who were the 12 as per sunni ahadith.

1 Like

Islam for Muslims / Re: What Is Ashura And What Led To The Tragedy Of Karbala? by Zhulfiqar1: 7:54pm On Nov 18, 2013

Islam for Muslims / Re: What Is Ashura And What Led To The Tragedy Of Karbala? by Zhulfiqar1: 8:25pm On Nov 16, 2013
Islam for Muslims / Re: What Is Ashura And What Led To The Tragedy Of Karbala? by Zhulfiqar1: 7:55pm On Nov 14, 2013
Islam for Muslims / Re: What Is Ashura And What Led To The Tragedy Of Karbala? by Zhulfiqar1: 10:54pm On Nov 13, 2013
Islam for Muslims / Re: What Is Ashura And What Led To The Tragedy Of Karbala? by Zhulfiqar1: 7:21pm On Nov 12, 2013
Islam for Muslims / Re: What Is Ashura And What Led To The Tragedy Of Karbala? by Zhulfiqar1: 9:42pm On Nov 11, 2013
Islam for Muslims / Re: Shia Ayatollah Issues Fatwa Permitting The Drinking Of Water During FASTING by Zhulfiqar1: 12:16pm On Nov 11, 2013

Please when we have ahadeeth that might apparently be in conflict.
There are ways of reconciling them
But an explicit prohibition takes precedence over what people observe
But your position of last year is different from this year's - but it is not an issue
I used the hadeeth last year and I remain on it

please what is the difference. cheesy i'd like to know because I am open to learning everyday.and I do not claim perfection.

it is a serious thing when you say something is "pagan" and the Prophet (s) is recorded to have done it.it is not a simple matter of prohibition.it is either hitting oneself in grief is pagan or it is allowed in islam.then explain to us what the pagans of jahiliyyah used to do that made the Prophet (s) utter the statement he made.for a hint,they used to insult Allah (swt) in wailing when they grief.

it is the same thing about "grave worship".if you look at the graves of our Imams,they are level to the ground.wahhabis think the "dhareeh" (outter fencing protecting the graves) are structures on the grave we worship.truth is the graves within the outter protecting structure are level as the Prophet (s) ordered.and the graves of the Christians and jews used to be themselves made in the form of housing which the Prophet (s) prohibited.you need to not be superficial.


Of course she is my role model and my mother - Alhamdu li Llah, I am a Muslim
But like any human being she can err. I don't even have time for takhreej now

so if Aisha who you implicitly accused of "paganism" can still qualify for a role model,why do you have problem with the Shia? cant they also "err" going by your argument? someone that does pagan acts is no role model for a muslim.
Islam for Muslims / Re: Shia Ayatollah Issues Fatwa Permitting The Drinking Of Water During FASTING by Zhulfiqar1: 11:49am On Nov 11, 2013

I agree there is a difference between bloodletting and blunt blows
But both are forbidden by the Prophet of Allah (SAW)

(Bukhari and Muslim)

Enough for today - you have contradicted yourself and I have pointed it out
This is a religious matter. I don't need to gloat
But I am satisfied with the progress made today = that you can cite the name of Aisha as a role model
Insha Allah, the day to clear the name of Aliu ibn Talib (RA) of the unfortunate and unfair allegation of the Shia draws closer

you should stop contradicting yourself.

tell us what the hadith about jahiliyyah means.it doesn't make sense that the Prophet (s) would forbid something that he is recorded in the very bukhari to have done.

NB: As for Aisha I cited her because she is your role model and not mine.it is also a great progress that you implicitly accused her of following "jahiliyyah paganism".
Islam for Muslims / Re: What Is Ashura And What Led To The Tragedy Of Karbala? by Zhulfiqar1: 11:45am On Nov 11, 2013
Actually they do
Even the blood of children is split in the process and you can often see the children wincing in pain

Very funny!

ok,since you now see that the vast majority of Shia and Shia ulama do not tolerate tatbeer,would you now join us to commemorate Ashura? taking the following into account:

-crying for Imam Hussain (as) is sunnah
-hitting oneself in grief is sunnah (Aisha,Sarah and Prophet Muhammad are recorded to have done that)
-love for the Ahlul-Bayt (as) is an injunction in the Quran and that love should not only stay on our lips
-observing Ashura is emphasized in the hadiths
-on Ashura,it is also more opportunity to learn more things in Islam and recite the Quran
Islam for Muslims / Re: Shia Ayatollah Issues Fatwa Permitting The Drinking Of Water During FASTING by Zhulfiqar1: 11:16am On Nov 11, 2013

I am not in a competitive game with you. I belive that Shias are misguided. But how will that help me to get to Jannah which is my focus
It will not
I am better off being able to say in Jannah (may Allah make me its abode) that I used to debate hotly with ZhulFiqar by Alhamdu Li Llah, he saw the light

Roping and beating is not my aim. Not at all

Alhamdu Li Llah that you have admitted that we only take our deen from the Prophet (SAW) and not past prophets (AS)

No! Don't put it to me.
Put it to Zhul-Fiqar and Ayatollah Khamenei

Does Islam change everyday? Does your position change everyday?
See below what you wrote in 2012. You wanted me to listen then
Now you have changed your position and you still want me to listen


According to Imam Malik, we can take and reject from anyone - Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, the mothers of the believers -apart from the Prophet (SAW)
Only the Prophet of Allah (SAW) is the one whose position we cannot reject
This is what the Prophet (SAW) said and I stand by it

(Bukhari and Muslim)

there is a big difference between hitting your chest or thigh as a sign of grief,and cutting yourself inflicting injury which is forbidden. you are mixing things up.

Do you really want to bring what Shias say about the relationship between Iblees and Ali ibn Talib (RA) onto this thread
Be careful.

please do.expose yourself.
Islam for Muslims / Re: What Is Ashura And What Led To The Tragedy Of Karbala? by Zhulfiqar1: 11:07am On Nov 11, 2013
BetaThings: At least the Supreme Leader of Iran got it right on this occasion
unless he is doing Taqiyyah while his life in not in danger
Or Ayatollah SYED Khamenei might need to read this Nairaland thread to be properly educated by the highly knowledgeable Shias here after which the Ayatollah might be persuaded to change his mind and his fatwa
We need to send this link to him so that he can become properly schooled on Shia etiquette of mourning
Unless he is just being "stubborn", he will have to change that fatwa after readiing the "truth" on Nairaland


why do you insist on mocking yourself with half or no knowledge?

the majority of Shia scholars forbid tatbeer (cutting one's self),and the very post you are using to make a clown out of yourself was posted here on nairaland by a Shia to explain that the act is not religiously permitted by the vast majority of our scholars.there are cultural practices which people have been attracted to because they express sad emotions to fit the occasion.however these practices are not religiously sound.the majority of the Shia don't go about cutting themselves.and because there are some lay people who do such acts,that is no justification to tell us to stop holding the memory of Imam Hussain (as) in high esteem,and commemorating the martyrdom of Imam Hussain (as) according to the sunnah of the Prophet (s).Wahhabis/salafists want people to believe they oppose Ashura because of people cut themselves.while in fact whether people cut themselves or not,they just want to erase the memory of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) and the legacy of Imam Hussain (as).

the truth is you can use all tricks and tactics,but we will not stop remembering Imam Hussain (as).if it bothers you, fly into another planet.
Islam for Muslims / Re: What Is Ashura And What Led To The Tragedy Of Karbala? by Zhulfiqar1: 11:04am On Nov 11, 2013
Why do Shia hit their chest:

Islam for Muslims / Re: Shia Ayatollah Issues Fatwa Permitting The Drinking Of Water During FASTING by Zhulfiqar1: 8:41am On Nov 11, 2013

the pile of rubbish you post is so clear that you on your own cannot think through and separate truth from falsehood.keep depending on lies and nonsense of Wahhabi propagandists on youtube and you'd be blind forever and full of hate that others would view you as a non-living creature that does not think!!!

since religion to you is a competitive game with the Shia,i am glad to inform you that I have roped you and beaten you again severely.i brought out evidence showing your almighty Aisha in hadith and Lady Sarah (as) in the Quran hitting themselves to express grief.so your point became we do not follow Aisha but only the examples of the Prophet (sa), and we do not follow Sarah because she follows a previous shariah.ok here is the Prophet (s) in your almighty "Sahih" Bukhari hitting himself:

Narrated ‘Ali bin Abi Talib:
That Allah’s Apostle came to him and Fatima the daughter of Allah’s Apostle at their house at night and said, “Won’t you pray?” ‘Ali replied, “O Allah’s Apostle! Our souls are in the Hands of Allah and when he wants us to get up, He makes us get up.” When ‘Ali said that to him, Allah’s Apostle left without saying anything to him. While the Prophet was leaving, ‘Ali heard him striking his thigh (with his hand) and saying, “But man is quarrelsome more than anything else.” (18.54)

Ibn Hajr Asqalani-the Nasibi scholar- in the commentary of this tradition in Fatah al Bari, Volume 3 page 11 writes:

قوله يضرب فخذه فيه جواز ضرب الفخذ عند التأسف

“His statement ‘striking his thigh’ shows the permission of striking the thigh to express the grief

"Sunnah" is what the Prophet (s) did.therefore I put it unto you that hitting oneself to express grief is a Sunnah because the Prophet (s) did just that.or do you want to tell me the Prophet (s) is also following "paganism" (astaghfirullah)?

you Wahhabis/salafists are like Iblis. Allah (swt) told iblis to bow down to Adam (as),iblis replied that Adam (as) is a created creature from clay and he is better than Adam (as).perhaps iblis just like Wahhabis/salafists were following "pure tawheed".now tell us what you think about the Prophet (s) hitting himself.

now that we are done with the topic,and even the father of salafism ibn taymiyyah has a similar fatwa permitting drinking water during fast in special circumstances,the Wahhabi wannabes want to derail the thread because they feel bitter and beaten. grin
Islam for Muslims / Re: Shia Ayatollah Issues Fatwa Permitting The Drinking Of Water During FASTING by Zhulfiqar1: 10:55pm On Nov 10, 2013
Sheykul Islam: "you can drink water if the you cannot withstand such fasting". I hope ibn taymiyyah's students are reading this thread

amazing! how ignorant can people get because of blind hatred? so even the founder of salafism has the same ruling?!!! cheesy cheesy cheesy
Islam for Muslims / Re: Shia Ayatollah Issues Fatwa Permitting The Drinking Of Water During FASTING by Zhulfiqar1: 10:52pm On Nov 10, 2013
BetaThings: A lot of things done by Shia have pagan background and they are not original
Similarities of Shia self flaggelation with christianity

people have come to realize the truth on the topic in spite that the op opened this thread to vilify the Shia.so in order to continue the nonsense,you want to derail the thread.

why did you not copy all that was said in that thread? why only pick out few verses of the bible to accuse Muslims of being "pagan"? what does mourning have to do in this thread? there is no problem because I will still catch you and beat you with your point.that is evidence that Wahhabis/salafists have no aqeedah.

so when Aisha is reported to have beaten herself, she was doing acts of "pagan background", right? or is it only "pagan" if the Shia does it? please enlighten us :

al Tabari in History Volume 9 page 183 (English translation by Ismail Poonawala):

Abbas narrates:
“I heard Ayesha saying “The Messenger of God died on my bosom during my turn, I did not wrong anyone in regard to him. It was because of my ignorance and youthfulness that the Messenger of God died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my chest and slapping my face along with the women”.

and of course,there is also acts of "pagan background" found in the Holy Quran (astaghfirullah),according to the words of Mr.Wahhabi who does not know the Quran and does not know Islam but only sentiments:

“Then came forward his wife in grief, she smote her face and said (what! I) An old barren woman?”
Quran 51:29

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