ijawkid:

Did God call david his Firstborn??....answer the question............

You guys have answered zilch......

Psalms 89:27

And I will appoint him to be my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth. You are the one who have to answer. All the question we asked you all you did was ask other question to run from it go back and answer why is Israel God firstborn David and few others. Try answer all those questions pls do not reply with questions reply with answers

ijawkid:

You said firstborn means pre-eminent.....

And I have asked how is Jesus pre-eminent to his GOD and Father...??....

You better stop playing tricks bro......

You want to know why other was added in the NWT and in bracket??......

Ijawtubo :p I would say yes he is above God if you are the one that created god. unfortunately God is not created... The bible simple said firstborn of all creation. You got no case just answer the question.

benalvino:

Ijawtubo :p I would say yes he is above God if you are the one that created god. unfortunately God is not created... The bible simple said firstborn of all creation. You got no case just answer the question.

Gbam. Yes was God created? So your question has been flushed in the toilet

^^^^


You are dribbling yourself. Jesus is the firstborn of GOD by virtue of his birth through Mary who was empowered to conceived by the Holy Spirit.

What is hard with this ?

Can God be birthed by a woman ?

Can God sleep , though the bible says he neither sleeps nor slumbers

Can God be tempted, as James says, let no many say when he is tempted that he tempted by God for God cannot be tempted and he does not tempt any man

Can God die ?

Quit this nonsnse called the Trinity which is a PAGAN concept.


I leave you with this scripture :

God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?- Numbers 23:19

benalvino:

Psalms 89:27

And I will appoint him to be my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth. You are the one who have to answer. All the question we asked you all you did was ask other question to run from it go back and answer why is Israel God firstborn David and few others. Try answer all those questions pls do not reply with questions reply with answers

Do you see the bolded up there.....??......and immediately after the bolded the answer was given...........

You guys have been running around defining firstborn in just one way which is at best wayo on your part..........


Let us define firstborn proper so that y'all can get your senses aroused.......

Genesis 49:3

New American Standard Bible
(©1995)
"Reuben, you are my firstborn; My
might and the beginning of my
strength, Preeminent in dignity
and preeminent in power.


Again I would ask you both.........how is Jesus the Gods firstborn or the firstborn and beginning of all creation...??....how is reuben jacobs firstborn and also the beginning of his virility??



Let me go straight into the discussion proper with the questions above.........

benalvino:

Ijawtubo :p I would say yes he is above God if you are the one that created god. unfortunately God is not created... The bible simple said firstborn of all creation. You got no case just answer the question.

So Jesus is the firstborn and the only begotten son of himself...??......don't laugh so quick bro...this discussion is about to get tougher........

Ok let me ask you one question....

Can we call the Father and the holy spirit the firstborn of all creation??

frosbel: ^^^^


You are dribbling yourself. Jesus is the firstborn of GOD by virtue of his birth through Mary who was empowered to conceived by the Holy Spirit.

What is hard with this ?

Can God be birthed by a woman ?

Can God sleep , though the bible says he neither sleeps nor slumbers

Can God be tempted, as James says, let no many say when he is tempted that he tempted by God for God cannot be tempted and he does not tempt any man

Can God die ?

Quit this nonsnse called the Trinity which is a PAGAN concept.


I leave you with this scripture :

God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?- Numbers 23:19

Frosbel... You showing so much ignorance here. If Mary born Jesus and that makes him the first born as a result of that... Which time machine you borrow am make him use travel go back in time vo create everything for heaven and earth? Jesus was a man... The bible says God manifest in flesh... By your logic you are saying a man created everything in heaven and earth? Guy think before you post. You cannot understand God as the bible says... I know you are trying

Itsfacts:

Gbam. Yes was God created? So your question has been flushed in the toilet

You just dey yap GBAm for corner.......

Get ready to answer questions of all kinds.....

benalvino:

Frosbel... You showing so much ignorance here. If Mary born Jesus and that makes him the first born as a result of that... Which time machine you borrow am make him use travel go back in time vo create everything for heaven and earth? Jesus was a man... The bible says God manifest in flesh... By your logic you are saying a man created everything in heaven and earth? Guy think before you post. You cannot understand God as the bible says... I know you are trying

Another gbam. Frosbel am ashamed of your weak arguments you can do better.

ijawkid:

You just dey yap GBAm for corner.......

Get ready to answer questions of all kinds.....

Abeg try answer the ones on your table first

benalvino:

Frosbel... You showing so much ignorance here. If Mary born Jesus and that makes him the first born as a result of that... Which time machine you borrow am make him use travel go back in time vo create everything for heaven and earth? Jesus was a man... The bible says God manifest in flesh... By your logic you are saying a man created everything in heaven and earth? Guy think before you post. You cannot understand God as the bible says... I know you are trying

Ben according to the flesh Jesus was marys firstborn........stop this charade.......

Mary had other kids but Jesus was the first of them and as we know he was birthed and so was rightly called firstborn by mary and the scriptures..........NO??.......

This is the point I have been trying to bring out but u guys have been running around psalms...........

Please check up the genesis account I quoted.....

Itsfacts:

Abeg try answer the ones on your table first

I have answered them and will keep answering..its for you to answer the ones I've presented...now I am infact going into the discussion proper........

We would now officially analyze how Jesus is the firstborn of all creation and also how he is the beginning of Gods creative works or creation.............

I don't know if david can help you with the beginning of wahala.........

ijawkid:

Ben according to the flesh Jesus was marys firstborn........stop this charade.......

Mary had other kids but Jesus was the first of them and as we know he was birthed and so was rightly called firstborn by mary and the scriptures..........NO??.......

This is the point I have been trying to bring out but u guys have been running around psalms...........

Please check up the genesis account I quoted.....

And I never said he is not. What am saying is firstborn means different thing in different context or scenario. Just like how the bible have different meaning for flesh

ijawkid: I have answered them and will keep answering..its for you to answer the ones I've presented...now I am infact going into the discussion proper........

We would now officially analyze how Jesus is the firstborn of all creation and also how he is the beginning of Gods creative works or creation.............

I don't know if david can help you with the beginning of wahala.........

You didn't answer anything. Not a single thing.

benalvino:

And I never said he is not. What am saying is firstborn means different thing in different context or scenario. Just like how the bible have different meaning for flesh

And I am telling you that when applied to Jesus it means all of it....the definition of firstborn in all its scope applies to Jesus......

The definition of first born...

first·born
[furst-bawrn]

-adj.
1. first in the order of birth; eldest.

-n.
2. a firstborn child.
3. a first result or product.


Be it pre-eminence,be it first amongst of birthed or created things or persons,be it first amongst family member,be it one appointed as chief amongst a group of persons while the individual in question is not excepted from the group, etc.....

Anyhow we want to define firstborn it all applies to Jesus..........

Gotten my point??...

If you still haven't we would quote scriptures until we all grow weary.......

And may I tell you that the psalms you quoted was a pointer to Jesus??.......

benalvino:

You didn't answer anything. Not a single thing.

Ahh I see.......

Read my my comment before this one......

And please start finding the scriptural explanation of the expression beginning of when it is refered to a group of living things or a family.........

Oya......and don't tell me I've not been answering your questions.....

And why you guys are at it can one of you start explaining when it is said Jesus is the firstborn from the dead??.....

Did Jesus die??....was he ressurected??.....or did Jesus evade death and ressurection but was straight ahead appointed as firstborn from the dead??

benalvino:

Frosbel... You showing so much ignorance here. If Mary born Jesus and that makes him the first born as a result of that... Which time machine you borrow am make him use travel go back in time vo create everything for heaven and earth? Jesus was a man... The bible says God manifest in flesh... By your logic you are saying a man created everything in heaven and earth? Guy think before you post. You cannot understand God as the bible says... I know you are trying

God was manifest through his Son.

Let me take you on a small course in English , manifest means :

1. To show or demonstrate plainly; reveal:

Jesus was revealed to show , demonstrate or plainly reveal the Father , hence :

"Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?" - John 14:9

frosbel:


God was manifest through his Son.

Let me take you on a small course in English , manifest means :

1. To show or demonstrate plainly; reveal:

Jesus was revealed to show , demonstrate or plainly reveal the Father , hence :

"Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?" - John 14:9

this is utterly ignorance you are displaying. Don't change the word of God it says God manifest in the flesh you have no argument.

Itsfacts:

this is utterly ignorance you are displaying. Don't change the word of God it says God manifest in the flesh you have no argument.

Read English again and stop being subjective.

The English translated the bible , so I am sure they knew what words to use for a careful representation of facts.

ijawkid: And why you guys are at it can one of you start explaining when it is said Jesus is the firstborn from the dead??.....

Did Jesus die??....was he ressurected??.....or did Jesus evade death and ressurection but was straight ahead appointed as firstborn from the dead??

Now you know that first born mean different thing right? Good I dont think am at anything you can't answer question you bringing more. Maybe Ben will answer again but till you answer all question you have been asked what is the point of you asking more?

frosbel:

Read English again and stop being subjective.

The English translated the bible , so I am sure they knew what words to use for a careful representation of facts.

1 Tim 3:16

16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Compare it with John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

[quote author=Itsfacts]

1 Tim 3:16

16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Correct and unbiased translation which is true for 90% of all translations.

"Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory." - 1 Timothy 3:16



Either way, GOD was manifest in the flesh through his Son corroborating John 1v14. God himself is not a MAN and did not come down as a human being, this is stuff of fictitious pagan myth.

Compare it with John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

But this word was the Son of GOD who came to reveal the father , no ?

[quote author=frosbel][/quote]

You are running in circles now. Just like ijawboy

Itsfacts:

You are running in circles now. Just like ijawboy

Stay on point, as I have said repeatedly , sentiment is not allowed in this discussion, let us be objective and examine the facts.

frosbel:

Stay on point, as I have said repeatedly , sentiment is not allowed in this discussion, let us be objective and examine the facts.

no sentiment here am saying you make no point. God manifest in flesh you argued and at the end admit saying at the end he manifest in the flesh. If you will agree why argue in the first place? I mean why disagree then Analyse which at the end your result is what you are arguing against

Itsfacts:
no sentiment here am saying you make no point. God manifest in flesh you argued and at the end admit saying at the end he manifest in the flesh. If you will agree why argue in the first place? I mean why disagree then Analyse which at the end your result is what you are arguing against

What is the difference between Incarnate and Manifest ?

Itsfacts:

You are running in circles now. Just like ijawboy

oboy no take person play....who as been running in circles?....


if you cant divide scriptures by precept upon precept then u better fix ursef somewhere....


the onus is on you to tell me if the definition of [b]firstborn of [/b]has one meaning....



firstborn in all its definition applies to Jesus....


iI also gave u assignment to scriptural tell me how Jesus is the beginning of Gods handi work or creation......



as u do that try reading genesis 49:3 and be focused on this discussion....

frosbel:

What is the difference between Incarnate and Manifest ?

You see what am saying? Are you helping me or what?

Manifest incarnate how does it matter? What is your point? The thing is the bible said Jesus was incarnated before he got into mary's womb...

Bible say God manifest in the flesh which means bible is teaching Jesus is God.

ijawkid: oboy no take person play....who as been running in circles?....


if you cant divide scriptures by precept upon precept then u better fix ursef somewhere....


the onus is on you to tell me if the definition of [b]firstborn of [/b]has one meaning....



firstborn in all its definition applies to Jesus....


iI also gave u assignment to scriptural tell me how Jesus is the beginning of Gods handi work or creation......



as u do that try reading genesis 49:3 and be focused on this discussion....

Emmmm ijawboy so in other words you are saying pheroah firstborn is linked to Jesus? Or all the first born during that time... When the bible says kill or their first born it means kill Jesus too? You are not explaining anything. I already explain what it means I dont see anything you have to say. David was called the firstborn how do you link that to Jesus being firstborn and Israel was firstborn how do you link it to Jesus being firstborn?

Itsfacts:

You see what am saying? Are you helping me or what?

Manifest incarnate how does it matter? What is your point? The thing is the bible said Jesus was incarnated before he got into mary's womb...

Bible say God manifest in the flesh which means bible is teaching Jesus is God.

Very poor scholarship.

Show me where incarnate is used in the bible.

Let me educate you with a Lexicon on what Manifest means from the original language

phaneroó: to make visible, make clear
Original Word: φανερόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: phaneroó
Phonetic Spelling: (fan-er-o'-o)
Short Definition: I make clear, visible, or manifest
Definition: I make clear (visible, manifest), make known.


This is very different to incarnate where a spirit being becomes embodied in the flesh , the stuff of Pagans.

benalvino:

Emmmm ijawboy so in other words you are saying pheroah firstborn is linked to Jesus? Or all the first born during that time... When the bible says kill or their first born it means kill Jesus too? You are not explaining anything. I already explain what it means I dont see anything you have to say. David was called the firstborn how do you link that to Jesus being firstborn and Israel was firstborn how do you link it to Jesus being firstborn?

What you explained about Jesus being firstborn is half baked.....

I am explaining what firstborn means and how it all applies to Jesus.....

Ok now answer this straight....

Remember my aim here is to establish that Jesus had a beginning........

That is why I have been quoting multiple scriptures to show and define what firstborn means.......

This is where I'm heading at.:::

You gave an example of pharoahs firstborn right??.....

Is pharoahs firstborn not amongst pharoahs sons but the first of them all??.......

Isreal who ofcourse is Jacob has as his firstborn as REUBEN........how does that negate the fact that Jacob pre-existed before Reuben and begot reuben but reuben being the first of his children??..........

If Jesus is Gods firstborn son and the firstborn of all creation and also the beginning of the creation of GOD(please read genesis 49:3 to understand the words firstborn of and beginning of) why exempt Jesus from the created family??.......

I am including Jesus as part of the things / persons that were created by God but Jesus being the first of them all just as the firstborn of pharoah and Jacob are part of the group of engendered sons but they being the first.........you guys are exempting Jesus making him a co-equal with the GOD and Father who begot him.........