collynzo2: Hahaha I don't know why you always remember that song when I am about to destroy you online. For the records I never mentioned Islam in my post, I don't know if the Almajiri system is cultural or religious in nature. All those examples you mentioned are irrelevant when you consider the fact that some of the northerners still consider the form of education you suggested alien to them, are you going to deny that? If you don't deny it then, how do you reconcile making education compulsory for even those who do not want it with your 'philosophy' of allowing people to do what they want?

I ain't running from you, nyggah - got a life and sleeping at night is part of my daily routine. You wouldn't even destroy a fly, with a punch - you're a light weight and your punches pack no sting, trust me.

I don't know what the almajiri system is all about...however is begging also part of the Nigerian culture? Is child labour part of the Nigerian culture? Is prostitution part of the Nigerian culture? Is fraud part of the Nigerian culture? All these are vices that are happening due to the decay in the system.

My argument is that Islam doesn't forbid formal education...some would even argue that formal education has been part of the pillar of Islam since the 11th century and some of the greatest Scholars to ever walk this planet were devote Muslims. Ahmed Baba, arguably one of the greatest academic Scholars to ever walk this planet, and the author of so many books about science, mathematics, astronomy etc. was also an Islamic Scholar.

99cent: the problem is that some people were signing the petition on that thread based on their hatred against islam or northerners rather than out of genuine concern for the young girls forced into marriage with older men.
but for anyone who is genuinely concerned, we see it as a problem no matter where it occurs. even if it's among christian sects (Mormons for example) or even in our backyard. it should be a crime world wide.

see get ur facts right, dis was practiced in the past by Mormons, dey no longer practice it

ShyM-X:


Bro, it's still back to the same consciousness and evolution. The women were ready for it and they joined the activists in the protest against it, hence why the change happened.

Now you are talking. We southerners can kick-start the activism and the nothern women at the receiving end will be emboldened to join us.

I understand what you are driving at. In theory, culture is progressive; but what you are not taking into account is: in reality, their are factors in cultures that accelerate, slow, stagnate, ret.ard and even self-destruct a people's progress.

If not for the moral side, I would'nt have made it my business like my brother davidylan stated. But we are stuck in this forced marriage called Nigeria with the retrogressive elements always having the upper hand.

SNCOQ3:
Now you are talking. We southerners can kick-start the activism and the nothern women at the receiving end will be emboldened to join us.

I understand what you are driving at. In theory, culture is progressive; but what you are not taking into account is: in reality, their are factors in cultures that accelerate, slow, stagnate, ret.ard and even self-destruct a people's progress.

If not for the moral side, I would'nt have made it my business like my brother davidylan stated. But we are stuck in this forced marriage called Nigeria with the retrogressive elements always having the upper hand.

I don't know how things work in Nigeria. However, from my little knowledge about activism and based on my research - you don't kick start activism and expect people to join you. The clime/consciousness has to be right.

Anyway, I wish y'all all the best.

ShyM-X:
Evidently it isn't just an Islamic thing, the same thing happens in different cultures around the world. Even the Vatican isn't left out of the party. So why the hoopla about something as irrelevant as this and the distraction it's causing from the real issues Nigerians ought to deal with right now?

Anyway, I don't believe in marriage as an institution - I think it needs to be redefined. However, people need to be allowed to lead their lives the way they want, as long as it's part of their culture.

Ask urself,is it morally just,must u do wat d whites r doing(and av d same numba of divorce)..and if u want dat,maybe you go the whole length and let ur divorced wife take half of what you have.....*shikenah....cos ur lil sis will marry by 9 and b bak home by 12 with 3 kids

It is not uncommon for 12 (and even 11)-years old girls from the Roma community in Europe to marry. Some even have given birth as early as before turning 10, as incredible it might seem.

Ok.. Good facts

But you convieniently forget to state the roma communities are not mainstream and live on their own while here the child bride grooms are supposed upstatnding members of society

Moreover should child brides carry on because it is a vestige of the past

makahlj2: It is not uncommon for 12 (and even 11)-years old girls from the Roma community in Europe to marry. Some even have given birth as early as before turning 10, as incredible it might seem.

coogar:


VVF also known as Obstetric fistula (or väginal fistula) is a medical condition in which a fistula (hole) develops between either the rectum and vägina (see rectoväginal fistula) or between the bladder and vagina (see vesicoväginal fistula) after severe or failed childbirth, when adequate medical care is not available. It is considered a disease of poverty because of its tendency to occur in women in poor countries who do not have health resources comparable to developed nations.

"Severe or failed child birth" is very high among children whose pelvic area is under developed and unable to support the rigors of childbirth. Yes it is a "disease of poverty" in adults because it can occur as a result of poor care but with children, even the best of care cannot make up for the fact that their bodies are under developed causing them to have severe/failed child birth.

coogar:

it's personal because muslims have come to your door to ask for your daughter's hand in marriage at gunpoint? illiteracy is a disease. keep crying more than the bereaved - it's the habit of a typical nigerian so why ain't i surprised?

No, muslims can never come to my door to ask for my daughters hand in marriage but should we stand by and watch injustice because it isn't being done to us? These children are being exploited and it does not have to be my child for me to speak up and fight to protect them.

OAM4J: You dont seem to get it.
It doesn't matter if any religion, culture, document/law approves it. The question is knowing what we know about motherhood and family today, is it right? Will you approve your under age sister and daughter to get married?
Can a 13/14 year old child adequately handle the pressure of pregnancy, motherhood and marriage?
If we believe these children are not even capable of deciding a good leader for the nation during elections, why do we think they are capable of making a serious decision such as marriage for themselves.
We should be fighting to remove such abuse from every religion, culture and law books and not justify or approve the abuse with them.

The truth is that you are only looking at islam.

bgirl:
"Severe or failed child birth" is very high among children whose pelvic area is under developed and unable to support the rigors of childbirth. Yes it is a "disease of poverty" in adults because it can occur as a result of poor care but with children, even the best of care cannot make up for the fact that their bodies are under developed causing them to have severe/failed child birth.

it then begs the question - why is there little or no occurrence of VVF in the middle east where child marriages is a norm. the UK have one of the worst rates of teenage pregnancy on the planet. i am yet to hear of this VVF epidermic in my neck of the woods. i don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that poverty is the root cause of VVF and not what you explained above....

No, muslims can never come to my door to ask for my daughters hand in marriage but should we stand by and watch injustice because it isn't being done to us? These children are being exploited and it does not have to be my child for me to speak up and fight to protect them.

we were told to stand back and mind our business when the west adopted gay marriage in our churches even though the practise is extremely repulsive to me. i was told it's not my damn business what people choose as their sëxual preference. by the same token, it's not my damn business who some parents decide to marry their 7-year-old daughter to. their child, their lives, their prerogative!!!

ShyM-X:


You epitomise the reason why I'd rather verbally ra.pe pillocks in their ar.ses with no vaseline than debate them. I bet you don't know people can be educated without compromising the nucleus of their culture and traditions? The form of education I'm alluding to here, is a means, of making them be able to relate to and operate in the 21st century. With that, they will be able to make rational judgement - and know how to exist within the legal framework which governs the land. Stop bringing your simplistic thought process into this.

Hell phucking yeah, I'm a tribalist - and then what? Perhaps, you ought to know that when you're in Rome, you have to act like the Romans - and when you're in planet ape, becoming an ape is a necessity. Who gives a phuck about what an inconsequential and miserable soul thinks, anyway? You defend yours and I'll defend mine - end of story! Go see a shrink, if you don't like that.





[/b]And I pick and choose when I want to be a Nigerian - have you got a problem with that, son?

[b]

ShyM-X:


1. Sir, that isn't my point - my point is that: people should be allowed freedom to their way-of-life. The Northerner Senators voted overwhelmingly for it and no Northerner has come out to speak out against it, so why're Southerners crying-me-a-river over what has absolutely nothing to do with them? At the end of the day, they aren't forcing anyone to practise, it's just there to enable those who believe in it do what they think is right for them.

2. Right or wrong is subjective and also based on outlook. Beating a child and child labour are wrong to most people. However, it's normal in Africa. So who am I to judge what a person thinks is right or wrong? Also, I definitely won't allow my under-aged sister and daughter to get married because it isn't part of my way-of-life and the consciousness instilled in me by my parents. But I definitely won't stop anyone else who believes in it, from doing it. How a person chooses to lead his/her life is non of my business.

3. There are also tons of adults (old bodies with young souls) who can't handle all these as well - should we also stop them from getting married?

Lastly, life is all about choices and if the people it affects directly are in support of it - why should we be ones fighting against it? When Northerners/Muslims start fighting against it - then I'll support their cause. Till then, we need to stop the distractions and focus on Nigeria, and all the unique problems in the country.

The yes ve it!

Buying pure water 2 cool down angry minds and fingers

@ OP shymk/x at the end of this inhumane and appalling saga.... i hope you feel good about your miser.ab.le self.. Atiku condemns it, the Ondo speaker has apologized for supporting it, Ugbesia's people have condemned his action as selfish and personal, most enlighten and truthful muslim i have asked said they will not give their daughter out to anyone until she is properly educated and motivated for lifes challenges and here you are.... telling people who care to listen to your sorry self that some countries support underage marriage so that means its right.. i am sure you support homosexualism too because most country support it.... What is the percentage of countries who support things like this as against those that don't... (scratching your head now right trying to solve the maths...L@YSA), Majority of Nigerian have said "NO", our constitution is above any religious belief and cultural norms that guides you so if you don't like it go and hug transformer in your own sovereign state ...

I agree live and let live according to people's customs. Including when they decide on a jihad and kill you infidels and send your black ass to heaven/hell. I just want one boko haram trip to shymmex's house in Lagos. Just one.

I'm a Nigerian and it's my business what is in my country's constitution.
As much as they have their own rights, so also do I have mine. Let's see who'd make the loudest noise.

Live and let's live. If pastors can accepts makossa and christen bastards in their churches without muslims raising eyebrows why should muslims issues always give christians sleepless nights?

ShyM-X:
Evidently it isn't just an Islamic thing, the same thing happens in different cultures around the world. Even the Vatican isn't left out of the party. So why the hoopla about something as irrelevant as this and the distraction it's causing from the real issues Nigerians ought to deal with right now?

Anyway, I don't believe in marriage as an institution - I think it needs to be redefined. However, people need to be allowed to lead their lives the way they want, as long as it's part of their culture.

you forgot something...marriage in all the countries u mentioned above has to be in the best interest of the child. It has nothing to do with culture. The child has to be the one who seeks the parental or ministerial consent, not being married off based on some religious law

coogar:

it then begs the question - why is there little or no occurrence of VVF in the middle east where child marriages is a norm. the UK have one of the worst rates of teenage pregnancy on the planet. i am yet to hear of this VVF epidermic in my neck of the woods. i don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that poverty is the root cause of VVF and not what you explained above....

Stop fabricating statistics. Is there a study that supports these your claims? If so, kindly refer me to it. See below a study from the international center for research on women. According to their study, children under 15 are FIVE times more likely to die in childbirth than women in their 20's. Their research also shows that Pregnancy is the leading cause of death worldwide for women ages 15 to 19. These are FACTS.
http://www.icrw.org/child-marriage-facts-and-figures

coogar:

we were told to stand back and mind our business when the west adopted gay marriage in our churches even though the practise is extremely repulsive to me. i was told it's not my damn business what people choose as their sëxual preference. by the same token, it's not my damn business who some parents decide to marry their 7-year-old daughter to. their child, their lives, their prerogative!!!

Oh Lord. Listen carefully, let me explain the difference. When 2 gay people get married, whose rights are trampled upon? No one! (the fact that it repulses you is irrelevant, that is not an invasion of your rights, all you need to do is walk away) When a child is sold off into marriage, does it trample on anyone's rights? Yes, the child's! The point is that everyone has a right to exercise their rights as far as it doesn't trample on the rights of others. If a muslim said that their religion preaches the killing of infidels, will you say that they should not be prevented from exercising their rights? Despite the fact that it tramples on the rights of the 'infidels'? Again, your argument holds no water.

SNCOQ3:
Now you are talking. We southerners can kick-start the activism and the nothern women at the receiving end will be emboldened to join us.
.

You southerners should fight prostiitution and sexual slavery as at least 50 % of your women are either protiitutes or retired prostiitutes. You ignore your own decadence and immorality - that is my problem with you.

nagoma:

You southerners should fight prostiitution and sexual slavery as at least 50 % of your women are either protiitutes or retired prostiitutes. You ignore your own decadence and immorality - that is my problem with you.

Immorality is not a crime. Child abuse on the other hand, is.

bgirl:
Stop fabricating statistics. Is there a study that supports these your claims? If so, kindly refer me to it. See below a study from the international center for research on women. According to their study, children under 15 are FIVE times more likely to die in childbirth than women in their 20's. Their research also shows that Pregnancy is the leading cause of death worldwide for women ages 15 to 19. These are FACTS.
http://www.icrw.org/child-marriage-facts-and-figures

you are still pissing in the wind....pregnancy is the leading cause of death worldwide for women ages 15-19 in impoverished countries. it is only when there are no adequate medical facilities you would have teenagers dying from giving births. you need to be at your sharpest when debating with me...



as you can see for yourself, USA/UK have the highest rate of teenage pregnancy in the developed nations. how come we don't get to hear about the dangers posed by underdeveloped reproductive organs of their female kids that are having babies? why isn't there a scourge of VVF in the USA with the obscene amount of their under-aged
girls having babies?

[img]http://2.bp..com/_HOzbZaV8lEI/TRI_3CBgjsI/AAAAAAAAARo/hEqa8eMn9OI/s400/ch_teen_pregnancy.png[/img]

Oh Lord. Listen carefully, let me explain the difference. When 2 gay people get married, whose rights are trampled upon? No one! (the fact that it repulses you is irrelevant, that is not an invasion of your rights, all you need to do is walk away)

then you are an illiterate if you think my repulsiveness is irrelevant. why then do nüdists get arrested for indecent exposure when they bare it all in public? shouldn't members of the public just walk away like you claimed since the nüdist is just doing his own thing? some of you people need to get out of your cocoon and learn the ropes!

When a child is sold off into marriage, does it trample on anyone's rights? Yes, the child's! The point is that everyone has a right to exercise their rights as far as it doesn't trample on the rights of others.

i hope you are aware these children were married off with the blessings of their parents. just like your parents chose your name, drew tribal marks on your face, chose the school you went to, told you the religion to practise and blah blah blah. were your rights not trampled upon or which of these decisions did you make for yourself as a child?

If a muslim said that their religion preaches the killing of infidels, will you say that they should not be prevented from exercising their rights? Despite the fact that it tramples on the rights of the 'infidels'? Again, your argument holds no water.

every religion abhors the killing of another human being. child marriage is not murder. you are really grasping at straws drawing a parallel between the two. this is a practise that has been going on for aeons - you just don't change it overnight for the people who don't know better.

bgirl:

Immorality is not a crime. Child abuse on the other hand, is.

Here them southerners talking about crime - the profession of a major southern tribe . In any case half of your women are prostiitutes and they statart from childhood.

stillwater: I agree live and let live according to people's customs. Including when they decide on a jihad and kill you infidels and send your black ass to heaven/hell. I just want one boko haram trip to shymmex's house in Lagos. Just one.

I'm a Nigerian and it's my business what is in my country's constitution.
As much as they have their own rights, so also do I have mine. Let's see who'd make the loudest noise.

However, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to go up North and force them to speak out, or take a crusade there to fight them to change their culture?

coogar:

we were told to stand back and mind our business when the west adopted gay marriage in our churches even though the practise is extremely repulsive to me. i was told it's not my damn business what people choose as their sëxual preference. by the same token, it's not my damn business who some parents decide to marry their 7-year-old daughter to. their child, their lives, their prerogative!!!

if it's not your damn business then why are you on this thread?
you claim "it's not your business" when in fact, you have made it your business to support and promote child marriage as an "african culture"

let me guess, you also support the persecution of "child witches"?
Nigerian government, after pressure from children's right activists, introduced a law to protect the torture of children accused of witchcraft. This was only last year!!
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/africa/nigeria/121101/nigeria-introduces-law-protect-witch-children
how is this any different? children should not be forced into marriage by adults. such adults should face punishment.
I hope a law in introduced soon to BAN underage marriage.

what baffles me is why would anyone go on a thread to defend such an inhumane practice.

ShyM-X:


However, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to go up North and force them to speak out, or take a crusade there to fight them to change their culture?

Naa, I'm going to petition the government for a redress of grievances about the review of that clause. Wish me luck!

Nigeria introduces law to protect 'witch' children and BAN child witch accusations. We now need a similar law to BAN underage marriage. witchcraft accusation is just as old or even older than child marriage. So, if you support child marriage because it's part of "tradition" then do you also support practice of torturing "child witches"?

ShyM-X:


However, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to go up North and force them to speak out, or take a crusade there to fight them to change their culture?

the fact that we are discussing this in a public space and have hundreds of people speaking out against it is an action in and of itself. Also, one doesn't need to go to the north and force anyone to "change" their culture. The issue is we need to keep the bill out of our NIGERIAN constitution and prevent it from becoming law. Legalizing such an act by law will give an impetus to even southerners who support the idea to go ahead and marry children and feel justified by their act because Nigerian law supports it. Pedophilia is not exclusive to northerners. You said so yourself didn't you?

99cent:
if it's not your damn business then why are you on this thread? you claim "it's not your business" when in fact, you have made it your business to support and promote child marriage as an "african culture"

i am not supporting child marriage neither am i condemning it, i am only asking hypocrites like yourself to shut up and face more important issues crippling your country of birth....

let me guess, you also support the persecution of "child witches"? Nigerian government, after pressure from children's right activists, introduced a law to protect the torture of children accused of witchcraft. This was only last year!!
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/africa/nigeria/121101/nigeria-introduces-law-protect-witch-children

what's my business with witches? who is a witch? how do you determine who a witch is? your favourite hobby must be watching nollywood movies.....

how is this any different? children should not be forced into marriage by adults. such adults should face punishment. I hope a law in introduced soon to BAN underage marriage.

the marriage is with the blessing of their parents. were you consulted before you were circumcised as a child? is it something you would have allowed if you were old enough to understand? parents would always make decisions for their children - that is inevitable!

what baffles me is why would anyone go on a thread to defend such an inhumane practice.

defend what? i am not defending the practice but i can understand why they do and you have no right to criticise the religion of millions of people just because you are on the other side of their idealism - that's malicious, uncouth and the biggest act of cowardice.....

coogar:

defend what? i am not defending the practice but i can understand why they do and you have no right to criticise the religion of millions of people just because you are on the other side of their idealism - that's malicious, uncouth and the biggest act of cowardice.....

it's one thing to sympathize with those who torture children (child witchcraft) and marry off little girls.
It's another thing to attack those who speak out against it. It means that you so much empathize and sympathize with those who practice such acts that you somehow identify with them.

Do you agree or not agree that underage marriage be sanctioned into Nigerian constitution?
the question is not if you understand why they do it. but whether or not to allow them to make it a nigerian law to allow underage marriage. WHERE DO YOU STAND?

stillwater:

Naa, I'm going to petition the government for a redress of grievances about the review of that clause. Wish me luck!

Laughable.

99cent:

the fact that we are discussing this in a public space and have hundreds of people speaking out against it is an action in and of itself. Also, one doesn't need to go to the north and force anyone to "change" their culture. The issue is we need to keep the bill out of our NIGERIAN constitution and prevent it from becoming law. Legalizing such an act by law will give an impetus to even southerners who support the idea to go ahead and marry children and feel justified by their act because Nigerian law supports it. Pedophilia is not exclusive to northerners. You said so yourself didn't you?

Well, Nigerians have been talking about bad governance and corruption for eons. However has anything changed? People are just going to make noise for a few days and go back to owanbe-ing and their innate superficial lifestyle.

You have no voice and the lone voice that has been trying speak out has been labelled as a talkative, misogynist and sexist - by charlatans, ethnic jingoists and political jobbers. Welcome to Nigeria!!