hisblud: hmm the greek referred to Lord as KURIOS while God as THEOS. Thomas why call a created man, God? You are spoiling market for some people oh even their translators find it to HOT to retranslate. NWT need some retranslation sharparly

The bolded. Why do the bible call angels and humans gods (elohim)? I see you are a babe when it comes to greek/hebrew.

hisblud: fail, no way, abeg oh, helep me laf. So believing in an angel, will afford me life. Lol. So this is one of the doctrine you feel other churches have not been following, that you have separated to follow? SMH. Italo, hmm thanks for opening this thread, affords me the opportunity to understand separated_from_christendom's major doctrines which they will soon change becos its a mistake. Lol

What is the hebrew word for angel please?

hisblud: seriously, this verse debunks your false doctrine that Yahshua was an angel Yahshua more better than angels in every way yet your failed organisation deemed it fit to uphold the nonsense doctrine that the blessed Lord Yahshua is equal to angel. How disgusting can your organisation be?

hebrew word for angel pls?

hisblud: oops, i feel so sorry for your blind allegiance. If italo could quote verbatim your translation as My Lord and My God, and post it here, you should have first of all pointed out that the verse literarily in NWT was this - my lord and my god. But nada, but you deliberately want to fix you idea on something literarily copied from your organisation bible. SMH Please in your NWT is it written thus My Lord and My God or my lord and my god? ; D

poor boy poor boy, there is no capitalization in the original greek, but just as the jews refer to representative of God as God, even atimes call them YHWH, it is fitting to leave it in capital. this however doesnt mean that he is the almighty just like when faithful men in the past call angels YHWH, they never mean they were actually Him. small small, you keep learning.

BERNIMOORE: @true2God

you are a member of the Assemblies Of God church, i have all the facts, the pdf and screenshut of your discussions from someone,

i dont want to derail the thread, but i want you to come out with a clean hand before you attack another organisation of something you are guilty of.

so answer this;

did your church Assemblies Of God church prophecy armaggedon in 1914, and then changed to a latter date when armageddon did not come?

and again,

your weekly journal 'weekly evangel' of the assemblies of God evidently show all these changes, even in wikipedia

true or false?

just say that im wrong!

we have a long way to go here!

I am very much interested in the answer to that question.

hisblud: confusion mode 3! Personified Wisdom always wit Him yet He created personified Wisdom? Watchtower tinz, mistake manifestation. Achtung! Alert! Mistake correction committee take note.

Your ignoring my clear explanations doesnt remove the explanation, but will always keep you away from drawing a plausible argument.

hisblud: true even Yahshua claimed that He can do nothing except what the Father does. But when He healed the blind man from birth, the synagogue leaders said he should give glory to God and when He met Jesus, what did he do? oops. Oh Yahshua forgot that He was an angel and He is to direct that man to give worship to God just like this angel did but He as an angel received worship. is it right for an angel to receive worship? Hmm that "angel" must surely be so naughty?

What is the hebrew/greek word for worship as the verse translated it? does that word exclusively mean worship? your answer.

hisblud: hmm go here and read how its shown that before v9 there is v8 which shows that God calls Yahshua God. Frank4yahweh failed to prove otherwise even using the initial verse ps 45.6 which debunked his "error-free" translations , later he rejected them. https://www.nairaland.com/1341369/anti-deity-yahshua-please-kindly-frosbel/17#17889927

That Heb. 1:8 is a quotation from which hebrew scripture? and who was it applied to in that hebrew scripture? Jesus or a human?

And does that make that human God almighty?

those questions will handle your little knowledge.

hisblud: on whose authority am i to replace the word worship? Apart from your NWT, which bible translate worship as obesiance? Fact: jw are baised, anywhere Jesus is mentioned and worshipped, the use the word "obesiance", but devils and demons etc, they allow the word "worship"! Hmm, interesting doctrinal that we should follow. SMH

Jesus statement that worship belongs only to God is an indication that when that hebrew/greek word applies to any faithful human/angel, not a god worshipped by others, the meaning will not be worship cos it belongs only to God as Jesus said. Jesus said it himself without including himself. After all if he were God, satan wouldnt tempt him on the matter of worship cos he will know that he is the one who enjoy worship from others. secondly Jesus wouldnt have said you should worship only God, he would rather have applied the scripture to himself direct, "it is written, you must worship me".

hisblud: JEHOVAH WITNESS VS NEW WORLD TRANSLATION - hmm interesting battle

What is the hebrew/greek word for worship? what is its basic meaning?

hisblud: am sure the early followers of the failed prediction said this of others until the recant their failed prediction. We de wait oh for the next big mistake correction.

just like the apostles had wrong expectation, which never mean their thought always fail.

Watch very fine and see that you ve not been able to prove your doctrine. even there will be an increased light, your position is never the logical leap cos its poor.

true2god: Welcome Barrister, long time. On my way to the office, will trash ur falsehood later.

As a take away is Jesus angel michael?

first respond to our discussion on that. whose voice is prophesied to resurrect the dead at John 5:28, 29?

hisblud:

Do angels deserve worship?

No. so what is the greek/hebrew word for that you so called worship? what is its basic meaning?

Emusan:

I've compiled these verses for you and your Co who rejected the deity of Yehshua in different versions including yours.

AMP: Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped or retained,
7 But stripped Himself [of all privileges and rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being.
8 And after He had appeared in human form, He abased and humbled Himself [still further] and carried His obedience to the extreme of death, even the death of the cross!


ESV: who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.


KJV: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.


NASB: who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

NIV: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross!


CJB: 6 Though he was in the form of God, he did not regard equality with God something to be possessed by force.
7 On the contrary, he emptied himself, in that he took the form of a slave by becoming like human beings are.
8 And when he appeared as a human being, he humbled himself still more by becoming obedient even to death -death on a stake as a criminal!

NWT: 6 "Who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God."

Both agreed that Jesus exists in the form God, AMP inserted (possessing all fullness that makes God God) for simple logic.

What did you understand from these verses especially verse 6?

Verse6 talks about His early life.
Verse7 talks about the process of His incarnation into human.
Verse8 talks about His obedient.

First note that contextually, the translation of ESV is more correct than stating that Jesus doesnt consider equality a robbery.

Now, What I understood is that Jesus had the nature of God, ie spirit nature. and he has much of His qualities. however, God is greater than he is, in power, authority, knowledge, many more.

Some argue just like the parenthesis you stress above shows, that Jesus has the fullness to make him God almighty as the translator understand from the verse.

But I xpress my disagreement with that. If you say that his being God's form makes him God, then you are equally saying that his being in a slave's form (same greek word), makes him equal to humans.( the slave form implied is human form). we know that Christ wasnt equal to other humans in everything eg power, authority, knowledge etc. but he has our nature, namely, human.

From this vantage point, we can infer that the "form" stressed is nature NOT equality in essence.

italo: Nobody ever called anyone who wasnt God, "God." Not even Iin Gen 18:3 that you mentioned.

Thomas called Jesus "God" so he is God.

Drowning man...you're still deperately clinging to any straw.

House, Italo said that the angels that came to abraham is Jehovah himself. Italo not only implied that people have seen God as against what Jesus said, but that Jehovah himself is an angel. why? because the angels that appeared to abraham are referred to as angels at Gen. 19:1.

italo: You didn't mention who was with God na...

God said he was alone, you say "someone" was with him.

That someone no get name?

what was the context of that portion? does it also mean that no gods exists?

italo: If all things were created for Jesus (and they were), then Jesus is God because God said all things were created for himself

Again, you don fail.

Poor logic. so Jesus created things through God? if your logic is correct. then to be consistent, the above has to be true for God to be Jesus and Jesus God.

true2god: According to JW, angels can worship arch-angel micheal cos he is a special angel that God had reserve for worship. Unfortunately thats a wrong teaching.

In order to solidify the point, arch-angel michael must be Jesus christ. The Bible however did not teach that, but watchtower does. All God's angel, angel michael inclusive, should worship the son (Heb 1:6).

who was the hebrew first apply to? ur answer.

italo: Lie lie don start.

First you said angels were treated as if they were God. Now you try to make the word mean "a god."

Does Thomas then treat Jesus as God by calling him "a god." Never.

The Greek clearly shows Thomas called Jesus "My God!"

Even your fraudulent organization hasnt found a way to change the Greek from "My God" to "a god."

JMAN05 is a step ahead of the Watchtower society in lies and deceit.

go back to genesis.

italo: Like you said, its in black and white.

Your explanation of first and last holds no water.

God is the first and the last.

Jesus is the first and the last.

Jesus is God.

instead of attending to the issue, you are here dancing awilo logomba.

true2god: Thats a nice question but expect another mega-twist or lie cos u will surely get a response albeit wrong and irrelevant to ur question.

Since you ve not responded to my reply, I proclaim you gullible and unserious.

hisblud:

*blowing whistle*... nna mehn, i will love to compile more on this doctrine that they are championing....

chai, just to ease the shame of no proves. take it easy oo, ur bp is rising.

true2god: I cant laff, do u understand deutch?

This JW always confusin demselves whenever they meet any formidable challenge against their 'light is getting brighter' false teachings.

Expect more confusions from them, more question are coming for them.

lets text ur sincerity:

Does Jesus know when the end will come? yes or no.

Does he have the right to determine who will be in his left and right in the kingdom? yes or no.

about wisdom.

see how you are shaking about wisdom. but you forgot that your own understanding of thag verse ended up showing that you believe God was unwise sometime in the past.

but answer the question first.

JMAN05:

I cant remember when I referred to the bolded.

did you not refer to Rauch Ha Kodesh [blessed Holy Spirit] as an impersonal force that your so called translations AT, AV etc acknowledged your position as an "it". By the way can you post what your NWT translated jn 14.17 for us to read?

hisblud: did you not refer to Rauch Ha Kodesh [blessed Holy Spirit] as an impersonal force that your so called translations AT, AV etc acknowledged your position as an "it". By the way can you post what your NWT translated jn 14.17 for us to read?

No need to show you. You ve ignore most of my comments that could have answered your question.

1. what in the definition of that your colleague best defines neuter pronoun?

2. check Rotherham word for word interlinear and tell me what it says. by the time you confirm it in the original and you still doubt. that is your decision and choice of life. You will never say, you didnt hear. I ve tried to buttress my point. but this time, i will invite you guys to engage in the research with me to confirm it yourself. If anyone refuse, I know he didnt come for truth but ridicule.

So give me answers to those questions lets start the research together.

It is really sad that some wont admit there mistake cos of pride. true2god please come and tell me that you guys never had wrong predictions. I have more erroneous prediction which i have researched about. this is another test of your sincerity.

Italo you believe that christ 1000years have already began. and that the book of revelation which is a future prophesy fulfilled in the past about mary? Catholics still made predictions of the fall of protestants in the 19th century. heh! has prostestantism failed? yet they are infallible.

Hisbun please tell us the name of your church. I wont respond to you until you tell me. You guys are so insincere and you are here criticising people who admit there mistakes.

JMAN05 :


First note the cinually, the translation of ESV is more correct than stating that Jesus doesnt consider equality a robbery.

Only thing to point out is not consider equality with God! Ok but so other versions. so you mean your church own does not too correct?

Now, What I understood is that Jesus had the nature of God, ie spirit nature. and he has much of His qualities. however, God is greater than he is, in power, authority, knowledge, many more.

Do Angels have form of God? No! Angel have their form/nature likewise do humans, but Jesus has this nature/form of God no two meaning to this verse.

Your point on greater is baseless because the word "Greater" applies only in position not in nature.

Some argue just like the parenthesis you stress above shows, that Jesus has the fullness to make him God almighty as the translator understand from the verse.

Ok!

But I xpress my disagreement with that. If you say that his being God's form makes him God, then you are equally saying that his being in a slave's form (same greek word), makes him equal to humans.( the slave form implied is human form). we know that Christ wasnt equal to other humans in everything eg power, authority, knowledge etc. but he has our nature, namely, human.

This is where you missed it the most, Jesus appeared in FULLY HUMAN BUT WAS EMPOWERED through the spirit of Father to acheive all His work on earth. This is what the next verse is saying that He EMPTIED/DENIES HIMSELF of all the privileges that makes Him God in other to take on the NATURE OF HUMAN try to reread those verses for clear understanding.

From this vantage point, we can infer that the "form" stressed is nature NOT equality in essence.

This is where you should look at it,
God has Its own nature...
Angels have theirs too...
Likewise Human...
Jesus never existed in form of Angel but of God while He was in Heaven also He never took on Him the nature of Angel on earth but was made to be like unto His brethen.

Take your time to read that Phil 2:6-8 very well,

Shalom!

JMAN05:

first respond to our discussion on that. whose voice is prophesied to resurrect the dead at John 5:28, 29?

Jesus was speaking about himself. 1thessalonain 4:16 says 'the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trump call of God, and the dead in christ shall rise first, (verse 17) after that, we who are alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the cloud to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we be with the Lord forever'.

The key word u r interested in is 'with the voice of the archangel'. So lemme explain watchtower wont want u believe.

The coming of the Lord with be with the company of large numbers of angels and the trump call of God. The archangel's voice will herald his coming and the subsequent ressurection of the death while the living will be caught-up in the air to meet the Lord. This is what an average xtain decribe as rapture,tho'watchtower do not believe in it, they only believe in 'the voice of the archangel'. Can u see hw funny they are.

The Bible is not vague here, Hebrews 1:5 says :for which of the angels did God ever say 'You are my son, today i have become ur father...?'. I am sure ur response is 'NONE'. Is an archangel and angel? I am sure ur response will be 'YES'.

The accountant general of the federation is still an accountant, he can be replaced if he fails to perform. An archangel can be replaced, u will agree with me. If Jesus is an an archangel as u claim, then he can be replaced. But, concerning the son, the father says in heb 1:8 'Your throne , O God is, will last for ever and ever and righteosness will be the scepter of your kingdom'.

Christ's throne is forever.

JMAN05:

who was the hebrew first apply to? ur answer.

Pls clarify.

JMAN05:

Since you ve not responded to my reply, I proclaim you gullible and unserious.

I beleive I have responded to ur querry (see my response above).

JMAN05:

The bolded. Why do the bible call angels and humans gods (elohim)? I see you are a babe when it comes to greek/hebrew.

JMAN05:

What is the hebrew word for angel please?

JMAN05:

hebrew word for angel pls?

Ok grandMaster... here is your answer from a "babae" in greek/hebrew

In hebrew,

[size=18pt]Angel is mee'2lohiym

Human gods like moses is '2lohiym

But only God is referred to as Elohim [/size]

JMAN05:

poor boy poor boy, there is no capitalization in the original greek, but just as the jews refer to representative of God as God, even atimes call them YHWH, it is fitting to leave it in capital. this however doesnt mean that he is the almighty just like when faithful men in the past call angels YHWH, they never mean they were actually Him. small small, you keep learning.

Hoho, now the Jehovah Witness bible New World Translation (NWT) needs to be corrected ....

[size=18pt]
John 20.28
28 In answer Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him: “Because you have seen me have you believed? Happy are those who do not see and yet believe.” (NWT) [/size]

Thus your poor translators were NEVER real hebrew/Greek translator to have capitalised the above verse... or were they Pro- Diety of Christ while you were left behind... deceiving you... dont you think your Bible translators were gullible to allow that verse be rendered as above?