^^^^

Pal, just listen to yourself, so sure, so certain that the Virgin birth is truth when it has been thoroughly researched and debunked by eminent scholars , many who were christians themselves. But, let's not leave it there, the inconsistent accounts in the books of Luke and Matthew, the contradictory genealogies , the fabrications (agreed by scholars ) and hijacked prophecy of Isaiah 7:14 all mashed into a myth which is more aligned with similar fables in contemporary pagan religions than the truth about the birth of the messiah.

In fact , one can make a better argument for the trinity which you don't believe in than the Virgin birth.

It is a myth and will remain a myth though you hyperventilate, ridicule and mock those who hold a different but more accurate and factual point of view.

Like I said, this is the only doctrine which seperates us , my heretic friend

frosbel:
^^^^

Pal, just listen to yourself, so sure, so certain that the Virgin birth is truth when it has been thoroughly researched and debunked by eminent scholars , many who were christians themselves. But, let's not leave it there, the inconsistent accounts in the books of Luke and Matthew, the contradictory genealogies, the fabrications (agreed by scholars ) and hijacked prophecy of Isaiah 7:14 all mashed into a myth which is more aligned with similar fables in contemporary pagan religions than the truth about the birth of the messiah.

In fact , one can make a better argument for the trinity which you don't believe in than the Virgin birth.

It is a myth and will remain a myth though you hyperventilate, ridicule and mock those who hold a different but more accurate and factual point of view.

Like I said, this is the only doctrine which seperates us , my heretic friend

I laugh in chinese to all the above

As you keep making me out as an accomplice of yours, let me repeat a high level submission I earlier made, as this will reveal that we really dont have anything in common, not as much as you wish we do anyway

- EXCERPT -

Just because dirty bath water was used, doesnt mean the baby is dirty

"ti ọmọde ba nse bi ọmọde, agba a ma se bi agba" literally means "There is a difference between boys and men"

When one transitions from being a child of God to being a son of God (i.e. when one comes off age) these things become shown and known to one

Yes, "church" too was in my etcetera.
"Church" isnt church, we know that much too

- Tithe;
is outdated, gone passed its "Best before date", it does neccesarily need to be given but hey if determined nothing stops anyone doing so

- Trinity;
The word "Trinity" is not in the bible, a few word additions were added to the original text (i.e. 1 John 5:7) to make a doctrine of it
There are three known persons in the Godhead.
Question: Did Abraham know God as God the Father?
So why limit a powerful omnipotent God to three persons then.
Why delimit God to three persons? He could be more. No? Yes?

- Hell;
As earlier said, there is Sheol, there is Gehenna, there is the Lake of fire but hell and hades are Greek inventions, mythology and religious imports

- Possibly others like church, rapture etc
"church" as we know today is not the church (i.e. ekklesia) of/in the bible
More details at https://www.nairaland.com/1856979/e-grace-convention-20-14/2#25506104

Rapture is another misinterpreted text/passage

Marriage is an institution not Christianity
Christianity has to do with relationships and not religion
It is because of the relationship we have with God the Father that one gets to know via the Spirit of Truth where all these things which were taught to us are wanting and found to be false

https://www.nairaland.com/2055387/frosbel-now-atheist/12#29203352

-/EXCERPT -

Your alleged "the inconsistent accounts in the books of Luke and Matthew, the contradictory genealogies, the fabrications (agreed by scholars) etc", you really think it was idle talk when I said we have checked it all. Hmm?

I once alluded somewhere saying:
frosbel, you are not Yooba, but you understand it, even very well or more than most Yoobas themselves, all because you grew up & lived in Lagos and importantly you are familiar with Yoruba idioms, if do the same with Hebrew idioms, the pennies will drop

frosbel:


Your theology is seriously flawed. There are numerous scripture admonishing believers not to turn back from the faith. Your doctrine is heresy because it supports the fallacy of 'once saved , always saved ' which is another way for encouraging licentiousness in the lives of the chosen , because they are under grace and therefore can never fall.

You Sir are a heretic

I understand where you are coming from, original sin, predestination and stuff like that, doctrines formed and preached by John Calvin. John was such a very good example of grace that he murdered a dear friend who dared to disagree with him on the Trinity. What about Jonathan Edwards , another Calvinist who preached a horrible sermon called 'sinners in the hands of an angry God ' , a sermon which caused suicide death and suicide tendencies in the congregation, yet he supported the ' once saved always saved ' garbage but had slaves, yes , black slaves. Talk about the embodiment of contradictions.

If anyone will be in hell, Calvinists will be the first to be thrown in for their wicked and exclusivist mentality being paraded as grace, which is no grace at all.

Show me one scripture were a Christian was forsaken by the spirit of God.

what does the grace of God do to men? you say licence to sin. Scripture says otherwise. "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men.
Teaching us that,DENYING UNGODLINESS,AND WORLDLY LUST, WE SHOULD LIVE SOBERLY, RIGHTEOUSLY, and GODLY, in this present world." Titus 2:11,12.

Let every man be a liar and let God be true. If any man says he is free to sin because he is under grace. Do we as reasonable people take up issue with Grace or with the man? Is it grace that is the cause of his resolution or the man's complete ignorance of God's grace.

Believers are saved! They cant be separated from God cos the very thing(SIN) that separates them from God has been paid for through Christ's death burial and resurrection. If God should alienate a believer because of one sin, then the question should be why in the whole wide world did Christ die if a believer will still be punished? did Christ die for some sins and left some hanging? then the sacrifice cant be once and for all my friend.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." popular John 3:16.

If everlasting life cannot continue because of one sin it ceases to be everlasting life! Faith is useless, Christ died in vain, we are better of without Him. What do we need Him for if we have to work for eternal life? It is this nonsense teaching that is all over Christendom today.

Is this (work+grace) what you call Christianity? the scripture calls you a heretic. You are fallen. You were never one of us to begin.

I am not a calvinist am a Christian. I follow the teachings of scripture by God's GRACE. Enough of your straw man points.

BabaGnoni:


As you keep making me out as an accomplice of yours, let me repeat a high level submission I earlier made, as this will reveal that we really dont have anything in common, not as much as you wish we do anyway

We will see about that, not that I am trying to lead you astray, you have gone stray according to the position of orthodoxy

- Trinity;
The word "Trinity" is not in the bible, a few word additions were added to the original text (i.e. 1 John 5:7) to make a doctrine of it
There are three known persons in the Godhead.
Question: Did Abraham know God as God the Father?
So why limit a powerful omnipotent God to three persons then.
Why delimit God to three persons? He could be more. No? Yes?

Abraham knew God as one, all his conversations with God were in the singular, indeed the biblical heros of antiquity never once confused the one God of Abraham with the multiple gods of surrounding pagan nations.

Moses believed in one God ;
"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! - Deuteronomy 6:4

Jesus himself believed in one God ;
"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one - Mark 12:29

And finally God always spoke in the singular as regarding himself ;
"See now that I myself am he! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand ...- Deuteronomy 32:39

To suggest that God is 3 persons or more in the light of these scripture depicts a high level of brainwashing or just plain ignorance.

- Hell;
As earlier said, there is Sheol, there is Gehenna, there is the Lake of fire but hell and hades are Greek inventions, mythology and religious imports

Confusing 2 things.

Yes , I know about the lake of fire which is the means of putting an end to rebellious sinners, but let me ask you a few simple questions ;
- Do you believe there is an interim place called hell or hades where people go to and languish in torment pending the white throne judgement ? - Do you believe in eternal torment for the wicked after the second death ?

It is because of the relationship we have with God the Father that one gets to know via the Spirit of Truth where all these things which were taught to us are wanting and found to be false[/b]

Invalid opt out card.

Every believer, pastor or church claims the Spirit of truth led them into their belief system despite the utter contradiction of immense proportions at all levels , the differences in understanding and the counter condemning of each other as heretics, again while claiming to be led by the Spirit.

Your truth is exclusive to you and might not be agreeable to the majority of Christendom, so how come you still claim the Spirit of truth led you into these deep truths , which spirit is it, the one of Adeboye or kumuyi or BabaGnoni's own invention ?

Your alleged "the inconsistent accounts in the books of Luke and Matthew, the contradictory genealogies, the fabrications (agreed by scholars) etc", you really think it was idle talk when I said we have checked it all. Hmm?

Do you really think it is idle talk when I say I have done a rigorous research on this topic hence my conclusion ?

[quote author=An2elect2 post=29229730]

Show me one scripture were a Christian was forsaken by the spirit of God.

Have you heard of Judas , Demas in the NT or Saul etc in the OT. Oh common don't feign ignorance, you know that these people abound which is why David prayed this prayer ;

"Do not banish me from your presence, and don't take your Holy Spirit from me." - Pslam 51:11

"Yet they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he turned and became their enemy and he himself fought against them." - Isaiah 63:10

what does the grace of God do to men? you say licence to sin. Scripture says otherwise. "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men.
Teaching us that,DENYING UNGODLINESS,AND WORLDLY LUST, WE SHOULD LIVE SOBERLY, RIGHTEOUSLY, and GODLY, in this present world." Titus 2:11,12.

Absolutely, but what the grace of God does not do is FORCE, COMPEL , CAJOLE or COERCE Believers into obedience. Obedience is an act of the will and disobedience is also an act of the will.

Hence, while grace does indeed teach us how we should live, it does not make that decision on our behalf which is why Adam fell from grace, why Demas walked away loving this present world etc etc.

To suggest otherwise is to be deceptive and dishonest in the light of so much evidence.

Let every man be a liar and let God be true. If any man says he is free to sin because he is under grace. Do we as reasonable people take up issue with Grace or with the man? Is it grace that is the cause of his resolution or the man's complete ignorance of God's grace.

Can a man who is saved by grace, sin in spite of this grace and still be saved ?? I need a direct answer not rigmarole.

Believers are saved! They cant be separated from God cos the very thing(SIN) that separates them from God has been paid for through Christ's death burial and resurrection. If God should alienate a believer because of one sin, then the question should be why in the whole wide did Christ die if a believer will still be punished? did Christ die for some sins and left some hanging? then the sacrifice cant be once and for all my friend.

In other words we come back to my previous analogy ;

Mr. A sins but still goes into heavenly bliss because his sins are covered with the blood.

Mr. B does not sin but still goes to hell fire because he is not covered with the blood.

I say this is garbage talk and the fairy tale imaginations of religious folk.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." popular John 3:16.

But Jesus also said, ONLY him or her who endures to the VERY END will be saved, which means SALVATION is not a guarantee until the VERY END, No ?

"But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved." - Matthew 24:13

"Stand firm, and you will win life." - Luke 21:19

If everlasting life cannot continue because of one sin it ceases to be everlasting life! Faith is useless, Christ died in vain, we are better of without Him. What do we need Him if we have to work for eternal life? It is this nonsense teaching that is all over Christendom today.

Everlasting life is a future thing which we gain if we endure to the very end, we are to work out salvation with fear and trembling etc. Don't be deceived John says, he that sins is of the devil etc.

Is this (work+grace) what you call Christianity? the scripture calls you a heretic. You are fallen. You were never one of us to begin.

I never wanted to be part of a mumbo jumbo church anyway, did I tell you I go by the name Christian, lol.

frosbel:
We will see about that, not that I am trying to lead you astray, you have gone stray according to the position of orthodoxy

"... gone stray according to the position of orthodoxy" Pfft.
You should be more concerned with what is acceptable to God and not the position of orthodoxy

Dont sweat the "leading astray" wishful thinking, as you cant teach grandma how to suck egg

frosbel:
Abraham knew God as one, all his conversations with God were in the singular, indeed the biblical heros of antiquity never once confused the one God of Abraham with the multiple gods of surrounding pagan nations.

Moses believed in one God ;
"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! - Deuteronomy 6:4

Jesus himself believed in one God ;
"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one - Mark 12:29

And finally God always spoke in the singular as regarding himself ;
"See now that I myself am he! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand ...- Deuteronomy 32:39

To suggest that God is 3 persons or more in the light of these scripture depicts a high level of brainwashing or just plain ignorance.

SMH, a Bible 101 is never too late, so as hinted, Abraham never had the opportunity to know God otherwise except as God
- God only revealed Himself as Friend to Abraham

He, Abraham first knew God as God, and later out of the relationship (i.e. note, not out of religion) he became a friend of God
Abraham never experienced or never knew God, as, God the Father, God the Son etcetera

Deuteronomy 6:4 actually means Hear, O Israel! The OWNER is our Influencer, the OWNER is one!

As for Mark 12:29, Jesus (i.e. God the Son or the Influencer the Son) simply and plainly is reiterating Deuteronomy 6:4. There is no diggity about that

Moving on to Deuteronomy 32:39, here we have, God (i.e. the Influencer) saying:
"See now that I myself am He! There is no Influencer besides me.
I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand"

During the passage of time, we begin to notice and see certain persons in the Godhead
At the appropiate times, God (i.e. the Influencer) begins to reference the persons in Him (e.g. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit)
Note particularly, the Holy prepending Spirit, as the significance is about the completeness, wholly or fullness of the Spirit

Equally note that the word Trinity is nowhere, never or anywhere found in the entirety of the bible
Note additions was made to the original text (i.e. 1 John 5:7) and these added words were done in order to make a doctrine on trinity


Granted unlike Abraham, we are familiar with and currently know three persons in the Godhead.

If the bible DOESNT EXPLICITLY & EMPHATICALLY have trinity or teach trinity, why is forced down throats
Why determine the limits of persons God (i.e. the Influencer) has

God is Omnipotent, all powerful

So why limit a powerful omnipotent God to three persons then.
Why delimit God to three persons? He could be more. No? Yes?

I know frosbel, I understand there is frosbel the son, there also is frosbel the father, there is frosbel the employee, there is frosbel the husband
Hear O Nairalanders. There actually is ONE frosbel, frosbel the NL poster is ONE

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FROSBEL AND GOD (i.e. the INFLUENCER) IS THAT BECAUSE GOD (i.e. the INFLUENCER) IS OMNIPOTENT, GOD (i.e. the INFLUENCER) UNLIKE FROSBEL CAN BE IN TWO PLACES AT THE SAME TIME (i.e. God (i.e. the Influencer) can simultaneously be in heaven and be on earth, at the same time)

Note I left gaps and/or am leaving gaps, sorry I do this a lot especially when it is getting tiresome, but I know you should be able to slot in the fillers yourself

frosbel:
Confusing 2 things.

Yes , I know about the lake of fire which is the means of putting an end to rebellious sinners, but let me ask you a few simple questions ;
- Do you believe there is an interim place called hell or hades where people go to and languish in torment pending the white throne judgement ? - Do you believe in eternal torment for the wicked after the second death?

No need asking any simple or tough questions, as the points I made were these:
Sheol is the holding place for good and bad souls. It had a dividing gulf separating each
Gehenna was the incinerating refuse dump in Jerusalem
Hades historically and originally is the name of a Greek god until it got turned to meaning the place or abode of the dead
It later got interchanged with hell, which is from German word root
It was bible translators who were substituing the original Hebrew word Sheol with Greek counterparts Hades/Hell

The vital point made was the Jews DO NOT HAVE THE Greek idea or concept of Hades/Hell

- Do you believe there is an interim place called hell or hades where people go to and languish in torment pending the white throne judgement?
I do not believe there is an interim place called hell or hades where people go to and languish in torment pending the white throne judgement
That is part of Greek mythology
What I believe in is, Sheol, which had two sections with a dividing gulf
Those initially in the good side of Sheol (i.e. Abraham's bosom) are now in Paradise

- Do you believe in eternal torment for the wicked after the second death?
No, no I dont believe in eternal torment for the wicked.
"Eternal torment" is a misinterpretation of the text
The fact and truth is, just like the flames of Gehenna, the incinerating refuse dump in Jerusalem effectively & thoroughly burnt the rubbish, so will death and the wicked be destroyed, after the second death, which is the Lake of Fire
- God effectively is dying all over again, killing Himself, as it was His breath that gave us life

frosbel:
Invalid opt out card.

Every believer, pastor or church claims the Spirit of truth led them into their belief system despite the utter contradiction of immense proportions on all levels, the difference in understanding and the counter condemning of each other as heretics, again while claiming to be led by the Spirit.

Your truth is exclusive to you and might not be agreeable to the majority of Christendom, so how come you still claim the Spirit of truth led you into these deep truths, which spirit is it, the one of Adeboye or kumuyi or BabaGnoni's own invention?

Motives - people have different reason for doing something or many reasons for doing things
(e.g. like deliberately misinterpreting the bible, deliberately mistranslating the bible, adding words to the bible, deliberately misusing or abusing the bible, deliberately misleading others with the bible, deliberately searching for what is not lost the bible, deliberately ignoring honest truth & facts of the bible, the list can go on)

What kind of silly question are you asking with "which spirit is it, the one of Adeboye or kumuyi or BabaGnoni's own invention?"
Dont be daft and uncouth... SMH
Have you not read John 14:26 or stumbled upon John 16:13 before?

frosbel:
Do you really think it is idle talk when I say I have done a rigorous research on this topic hence my conclusion?

In your own words, tell and/or table out how you reached your conclusion,
Explain what are your stumbling blocks.
Tell what is hard for God to do in all the "rigorous research" you did

[quote author=BabaGnoni post=29232062]


- God only revealed Himself as Friend to Abraham

He, Abraham first knew God as God, and later out of the relationship (i.e. note, not out of religion) he became a friend of God
Abraham never experienced or never knew God, as, God the Father, God the Son etcetera

To the bolded ; Because such a description does not exist except in the textbooks of BabaGnoni .

Moses, David and sundry NEVER believed in this mythical hydra-headed monster of yours , in your case not even Trinity but with the possibility of more than 3 persons called one God, lol.

Deuteronomy 6:4 actually means Hear, O Israel! The OWNER is our Influencer, the OWNER is one!

What bible have you snatched this oxymoron from . 99% of all the translations correctly state ;

Deuteronomy 6:4New International Version (NIV)
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a]

Deuteronomy 6:4King James Version (KJV)
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

As if that is not enough , let me break down the actual meaning in Hebrew so that our readers will see the serious error behind that quotation ;

Original Hebrew text reads thus ;
":שְׁמַ֖ע יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל יְהוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ יְהוָ֥ה ׀ אֶחָֽד " - Deut 6:4

Break down;
יְהוָ֥ה - Yah-weh = The LORD
אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ - ĕ-lō-hê-nū = our God
אֶחָֽד׃ - e-ḥāḏ = IS ( ONE )

The original language and it's meaning totally debunks the myth which you just quoted. God is ONE, the translation into influencer is fine for palatability but not for the formulation of important doctrine.

As for Mark 12:29, Jesus (i.e. God the Son or the Influencer the Son) simply and plainly is reiterating Deuteronomy 6:4. There is no diggity about that

Moving on to Deuteronomy 32:39, here we have, God (i.e. the Influencer) saying:
"See now that I myself am He! There is no Influencer besides me.
I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand"

Refer to my previous comment and try and spend some time reading the original languages, stop looking for ambiguous translations that support your fallacy.

During the passage of time, we begin to notice and see certain persons in the Godhead
At the appropiate times, God (i.e. the Influencer) begins to reference the persons in Him (e.g. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit)
Note particularly, the Holy prepending Spirit, as the significance is about the completeness, wholly or fullness of the Spirit

Equally note that the word Trinity is nowhere, never or anywhere found in the entirety of the bible
Note additions was made to the original text (i.e. 1 John 5:7) and these added words were done in order to make a doctrine on trinity

Show me bible verses to support the erroneous concept of a Trinity or > Trinity , SMH.

So why limit a powerful omnipotent God to three persons then.
Why delimit God to three persons? He could be more. No? Yes?

You are going beyond what is written, stick to facts, stop playing silly games.

" "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other." - 1 Corinthians 4:6

No need asking any simple or tough questions, as the points I made were these:
Sheol is the holding place for good and bad souls. It had a dividing gulf separating each

Ah, so you think that when people die, their souls go to a place called Sheol ? If yes , is this soul in an animate or inanimate state of existence ?

And please quote the scripture that backs up your claim that Sheol is divided into two compartments, I want real quotes , not snide remarks and puffed up statements.

The vital point made was the Jews DO NOT HAVE THE Greek idea or concept of Hades/Hell

Good.

What I believe in is, Sheol, which had two sections with a dividing gulf
Those initially in the good side of Sheol (i.e. Abraham's bosom) are now in Paradise

Evidence please from scripture, and please don't quote the parable of Lazarus and the rich man at me , get me something from the old testament.

- God effectively is dying all over again, killing Himself, as it was His breath that gave us life

What !!!!!!

So God can die, aye ?

Motives - people have different reason for doing something or many reasons for doing things
(e.g. like deliberately misinterpreting the bible, deliberately mistranslating the bible, adding words to the bible, deliberately misinterpreting the bible, deliberately misleading others with the bible, deliberately searching for what is not lost the bible, deliberately ignoring honest truth & facts of the bible, the list can go on)

and why should I believe your own motive ?

Frosbel,
Why do you demand evidence of sheol/hell and you restrict the same to OT? Is it because OT is purer than NT?

You have zero confidence in NT, why should you have any in OT?

Why do you believe in any scriptures?

And could you please tell me what 'Let US make man in OUR own image ' means? Who/what is US?

^^^
Are you minding "yeye-dey-smell" frosbel
- a seed is a tree, is a forest...

vooks you're making frosbel fidget, wince & grimace with all these questions you are throwing at him

frosbel:
Mr. A sins but still goes into heavenly bliss because his sins are covered with the blood.

Mr. B does not sin but still goes to hell fire because he is not covered with the blood.

I say this is garbage talk and the fairy tale imaginations of religious folk.

Exodus 12
7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt [size=32pt]I will execute judgment: I am the Lord.[/size]

13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.


Don't you understand what the blood of the lamb represent?

Can any supposed good man stand before God's judgement without the blood and yet find himself guiltless?

Do you think the angel of death will kill anyone under the blood? Let's assume fora moment that Pharaoh's family go under the blood, do you think the blod will be ignored?

[quote author=frosbel post=29230644][/quote]

First of all, I asked for one Christian who was forsaken and lol what do we have here Judas, Demas for NT and Saul, David for old testament.

Judas is a failed example for advocates of "you can loose your salvation" Judas was a follower of Christ but was not saved. Surprise. Jesus chose 12 followers but one was "a devil" John 6:70. All others were prayed for but one "the son of perdition". John17:12

What was the difference between Peter and Judas? They both were sinners and if left alone will chose death over life. What kept the "wavering" Peter saved?

His will to remain saved? He was wiser? His obedience? Do we trust Peter's will even after denying his master thrice against his 'initial will'. Peter wouldn't. How could he trust his will after that experience?
Jesus prayed for Peter! if Peter was not 'kept' he would have fallen like Judas. John17:12.

Demas: "For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia."

We have little knowledge of this person in scripture. Once one of Paul's followers( remember Judas?) who later esteemed this present age higher than the one to come. Forsook all that he had known,seen and tasted. He was a follower and once called a brother is not enough evidence that he was saved in the first place. How do we know that Mr Demas may not have been saved? the Word:

Jeremiah 32:40 "And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that i will not turn away from them, to do them good; but i will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me."

1John 2:15 "Love not the world neither the things that are in the world, if any man love the world the love of the Father is not in him." Demas was guilty of going against this passage. Demas loved the world because he didnt have the love of the Father. If one is void of God's love nothing is left but the love of this world.

How else do we know those who are/were not genuinely saved. They did/will not abide with the saints to the end. The Word:

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." 1John 2:19.

So do we exclude Demas from scrutiny with scriptures.

Saul and David. Well these are fair examples. Men of God who functioned under the old dispensation but never the less had the Spirit of God. Now, we cannot turn a blind eye to the clear difference in the way God operated in the old and in the new. The Spirit's role in their lives(the few cases then) was limited and functioned differently. The Israelites were not indwelt by the Spirit of God but had His presence in their midst. Big difference. What they had then were occasional "visits" of the Spirit of God upon them. I f there was any promise of the Spirit abiding forever it was to those under the covenant of grace not law. John14:16, John17:11,Psalm37:28, Jeremiah 32:40.


Secondly, obedience is not a mere act of the will. It is the effect or result of a life totally dependent on GOD. Obedience stems from LOVE THROUGH FAITH.
How do we know a person loves God? is it not his keeping of God's word. But is love (operating through faith) not the reason he obeys?
Who causes a believer to be willing and able to keep the word is it not God? phil 2:13 bear me witness. To teach otherwise is to lie against the Spirit of truth.


Thirdly if any man sins we have an advocate with the Father 1John2:1 The bone of contention here is committing a sin not abiding in sin. There is a difference between sinning and abiding in sin.

shdemidemi:




Do you think the angel of death will kill anyone under the blood? Let's assume fora moment that Pharaoh's family go under the blood, do you think the blod will be ignored?

Leave this ancient Mayan ritual business alone, nigga. I doubt that even Count Dracula is this obsessed with blood.

Frosbel under scrutiny.....

Weah96:


Leave this ancient Mayan ritual business alone, nigga. I doubt that even Count Dracula is this obsessed with blood.

Do we believe in the same thing?

Do I have a right to believe in whatever I choose to believe in?

Goshen360:
Frosbel under scrutiny.....

Your brother has completely lost the plot o....He needs help.

shdemidemi:


Your brother has completely lost the plot o....He needs help.

I don't know how else to help my brother o.....make he call me make we resolve this mata for back door, he no gree call....na eim I say make I carry myself enter him thread in a stylish way.....abi na how man for do now?

Goshen360:
Frosbel under scrutiny.....

Goshen, haba, you know I am equal to the task now

[quote author=vooks post=29244739]Frosbel,
Why do you demand evidence of sheol/hell and you restrict the same to OT? Is it because OT is purer than NT?

If there is no evidence in the OT ( Which the early Christians used as SCRIPTURE ), then it is null and avoid.

After all the bible says a matter should be established by the mouth of 2 witnesses - (John 8:17)

You cannot take ONE Parable from the NT which has more to do with Greek Mythology and then bamboozle it to form a major doctrine that affects the entirety of mankind. That's just deception and a fabricated form of belief !

You have zero confidence in NT, why should you have any in OT?

Why do you believe in any scriptures?

Go back and read my opening statement or go for an eye test and get some prescription glasses if you cannot see clearly.

I will indulge you this one last time ;
the bible contains many truths more so in the OT than the NT, but it also consists of errors, mistranslations , but most diabolically outright fabrications and erroneous interpolations which have nothing to do with the truth.

And could you please tell me what 'Let US make man in OUR own image ' means? Who/what is US?

Digest Gen 1:27 and James 3:9 and tell me what you think, then I will explain to you.

BabaGnoni:
^^^
Are you minding "yeye-dey-smell" frosbel
- a seed is a tree, is a forest...

vooks you're making frosbel fidget, wince & grimace with all these questions you are throwing at him

I am waiting for your rebuttal my 'partner' in heresy

frosbel:


Goshen, haba, you know I am equal to the task now

Abeg forget story joor. Na one kweshun I asked you the other day I dey see sign you dey deny virgin birth, no be race you pick race?

BBG,
I have little tolerance for amateur skeptics,half-baked thinkers and hypocrites. Am very much at ease with antitheists like Dawkins.

BabaGnoni:
^^^
Are you minding "yeye-dey-smell" frosbel
- a seed is a tree, is a forest...

vooks you're making frosbel fidget, wince & grimace with all these questions you are throwing at him

^^

So says the ignoramus who cannot endure a proper debate without resorting to half-witted statements and personal attacks , lol.

Go and sit down, you have nothing to offer but noise.

"....... "Where are your accusers? Didn't even one of them condemn you?" - John 8:10

I knew when Frosbel was very active on the religion section. Now, if he had been born-again, before backsliding, he will surely trace his way home.

Another Nonsequitur from Frank317, which appears to be verisimilitude. Pls, how does "Naija brothers let us use our God given brain follows conclusive from this premise "I know yaweh and Allah does not exist". That's contradiction ogbeni!!!

I don't see how someone will doubt the authenticity of word of God. At least, not the same word that I have put into use and has produced results. How dare sbd doubt the LORDSHIP of Jesus? Thats malady. The same Jesus in whose name I heal the sick and opened blind eyes?

damosky12:
I don't see how someone will doubt the authenticity of word of God. At least, not the same word that I have put into use and has produced results. How dare sbd doubt the LORDSHIP of Jesus? Thats malady. The same Jesus in whose name I heal the sick and opened blind eyes?

You opened blind eyes ? Tell us about it !

damosky12:
I don't see how someone will doubt the authenticity of word of God. At least, not the same word that I have put into use and has produced results. How dare sbd doubt the LORDSHIP of Jesus? Thats malady. The same Jesus in whose name I heal the sick and opened blind eyes?

Odikwa serious...!! Guy remember this is a public forum not a pulpit.. Take it easy on the scam.

GooseBaba:
Odikwa serious...!!
Guy remember this is a public forum not a pulpit..
Take it easy on the scam.

^^^

Jokester... trust my guy, GooseBaba, to latch on to that one

frosbel:


You opened blind eyes ? Tell us about it !

Pls, don't doubt it? That you hav'nt seen it happen before does'nt mean it is impossible. I did.

It is such a pitiable plight that many of you are where you are because of ignorance. But, I tell you that Jesus is the LORD. Whether you accept it or not does'nt change anything. The same works HE worked while HE was on earth are still being worked through some of us. HE is alive!! It will be absolutely absurd and foolish to doubt HIS lordship.

frosbel:


Impossicant, God is real and so is Christ.

But what advice do you want to give me as a former brother, should I stop all research and quit listening to these ex-christian pastors who are also professors ?

Should I ignore glaring contradictions and accept them by faith as the truth ?

Please give me some advice.

What are these fidings of yours that makes you doubt whether God of the Universe is the Christian God?

Whether those who wrote those books were professors or not is not the issue. Granted, some of what they say may be true, but I doubt that all can be. If these professors left the Christian faith, then believe me, many professors have also accepted the Christian faith.

The fact is, no matter the educational qualification, you can't dismiss the fact that there writings may possess errors. No one can decide for you whom you will serve or where to serve. That's your decision because your life depends on these decisions. I wouldn't advise you to be hasty in a subject like these. Give it time. Before you make a decision, give it great time because some knowledge take time before you discover its loopholes. I don't know whether you ve read Mankind Search For God? It is a good book by JWs. No matter what you know, there is still much you ve not known. But making such research is essential 'cos it helps in building a strong faith if you are sincere.

If you actually believe that someone like Jesus existed, I wonder what you ll read that make you doubt if God was a Christian God.

But you would need to have an advanced knowledge of the bible, and understand its overall message before you embark on this odyssey, if not, your conclusions will be wrong.

So, what is it that you found out?