@KunleOshob:

@Noetic
thanx for this expose i had always assumed that allah was the the same as the abrahamic God, and that differences occured over time through cultural diversity, but now i kow better. There is no way the Almighty God would assume the name of a pagan god.

From your name, Oshob(u) you are in Ijesha man, right? Oshobu is a name that the Ijeshas bear long before Christianity, or the younger Islam! Do Muslims and Christians and even others of Ijesha bloodline still bear this name, today even with the difference in Religion? Yes.

You are a yoruba man; Go ask any older yoruba man who knows more than you when it comes to the Tribal heritage history of the Yorubas. Such a man or woman will tell you that Olorun, Eledumare, Oluwa, etc are to denote the Creator, Whom the pre Christian and Muslim era of yoruba religionists; aborishas, aboogun, aboshaogos, etc use to talk to through their individual middle gods.

Same situations with the arabs and their 360 idols and gods, which did not any idol named allah!


And when Christianity entered Yorubaland, the convert to the new religion did not change the name Olrun, Oluwa, Eledumare, etc for the rebranded Creator through Christianity, the Creator remained, except now they do not go through Ogun, Oya, Oshun, Shongo, etc, but by Jesus and or Holy Ghost. This is why Kunle and all of you Christians are rebranded pagans in my view.


Lets go to the arabs; When Muhammad (AS) rebranded allah to Allah, he (AS) destoyed everything else, moon godship, sun godship, desert godship, mountain godship, star godship, etc and the famous three gods who you guys call the daughters of allah. So Allah emerged, with any image, just like when the pagan says allah. But Allah emerges in addition without having no son, casual, honored or begets; like the others, including Jews of Uzair, and the Christians of Jesus! Finally, the 360 idols were completely destroyed not only in comcepts that started from the very first 5 ayah of revelation, but physically throwing them down and crushing them up!

This is in the tradition of Abraham, who did the same with his peoples idols, leaving the largest with the ax on his neck and mocking the people as he said its the big one that did it, with the physical ax on its neck, a physical evidence for his argument! It is threfore Islam that adopts the manners of Abraham by deeds and actions, while you, KunleOshob, Noetic and other patrons abandoned Abraham and his way of worship. Could you there fore be worshipping the same God as he did? The answer is no because you still cling to paganic ideas having to have gods instead of God. Use English Language to fool yourself, you are not fooling me.


A yoruba man in your great grandparents village, if he were to be alive today will not say God, but will say Olorun, and he and the Queen will mean the same Creator in different languages! Tis is the way that anyone with good sense of Judgement will look at it.

If Allah of the Muslims is not God in English language, so shall be Olorun of the Yorubas, and the Eloi or Elohim, or Jehovah or Yahweh of the various Semitic people including the Hebrew which Jesus is from.


But Jesus said Eoi and not God, or Jehovah, or yahweh? Whats up with that?

I wanted to know if Yahweh, or Jehovah or Eloi was ever used by any people, before Abram left Ur? To my surprise no one is addressing that, except in the bigDictionaries, they just sprang to Bible verses, as if that was the very first it was used, and how was the first person who used it in the Bible informed of this? This issue was not addressed, yet wikipedia has the time to tell us about the pagan arabs, bur fails to tell us about the pagan hebrew whose community Abram settled in and adopted their hebrew language as his own!


But in the Quran, Angel Gabreil (AS) told Muhammad the name of the Creator as Allah.

Now who told "Who" in the Bible Old Testament or New Testament that the Creator is Jehovah, or Yahweh or Eloi?

KunleOshob, Noetic, etc these are assignemnts for you guys. You must show us these things. Otherwise your arguments wil be all a rouse and your accusation will not merit any responss.

KunleOshob:

@Noetic
thanx for this expose i had always assumed that allah was the the same as the abrahamic God, and that differences occured over time through cultural diversity, but now i kow better. There is no way the Almighty God would assume the name of a pagan god.

u welcome.

I think the expose has been repeatedly done by david, osisi, olaadegbu et all. . . .the difference is it all just adds up on this thread.
And let me say that I do enjoy ur sincere analysis . , . . . . , though I might not always agree. . . thanks.

@Olabowale
Despite all your exhaustive rants you still haven't told us why GOD decided to adopt the name of a pagan idol god as his name. And the "coincidence" of that name being the name of the idol mohammed's father was worshipping. Smells very fishy to me.

olabowale:

I wanted to know if Yahweh, or Jehovah or Eloi was ever used by any people, before Abram left your? To my surprise no one is addressing that, except in the bigDictionaries, they just sprang to Bible verses, as if that was the very first it was used, and how was the first person who used it in the Bible informed of this? This issue was not addressed, yet wikipedia has the time to tell us about the pagan arabs, bur fails to tell us about the pagan hebrew whose community Abram settled in and adopted their hebrew language as his own!

But in the Quran, Angel Gabreil (AS) told Muhammad the name of the Creator as Allah.
Now who told "Who" in the Bible Old Testament or New Testament that the Creator is Jehovah, or Yahweh or Eloi?
KunleOshob, Noetic, etc these are assignemnts for you guys. You must show us these things. Otherwise your arguments wil be all a rouse and your accusation will not merit any responss.

Exodus 3:4-6:

4And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

5And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

6Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.



Exodus 6:3:
3And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

More
Psalm 83:18
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Isaiah 12:2
Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

i cant undrrstand why you guys just cant get it. every race on earth has at least a primitive concept of monothesim. God has sent at least 124,00 prophets to people as guidance. the pagan arabs adulterated the monothesim by introducing lesser gods but still maintaining Allah as the supreme creator.
how come the christian arab b4 the time of mohamamed still call thier god Allah. were they moon worshipers too?

one of the first scholars to discuss the idea of moon-god Allah also discussed in parallel the isreals EL as a sun god citing lot of circumstantial evidences like for the case of the moon god. this sun god has an affinity for bull sacrifices. he related this to the voracious appetite for bull of EL in the old testmament.
1 strongly belive this tendecy towards a god with bovine xteristic was what led the isrealites to make the GOLDEN CALF during the time of Moses as an image of EL. lets say for instance a arhcelogist find the remains of such a diety, he would easily proclaim this as 'evidence'
that EL is a bovine god. Am a geologist and i knw how we build 'facts' based on very circumstantial evidence.

what u guys do not realize is that most of the scholars that propose these absurd ideas are atheist and are only trying to discredit the origin of true religion and God. it is quite dissapointing that some so called christians had to climb on this atheistic bandwagon

the_seeker:

i cant undrrstand why you guys just cant get it. every race on earth has at least a primitive concept of monothesim. God has sent at least 124,00 prophets to people as guidance. the pagan arabs adulterated the monothesim by introducing lesser gods but still maintaining Allah as the supreme creator.
how come the christian arab b4 the time of mohamamed still call thier god Allah. were they moon worshipers too?

one of the first scholars to discuss the idea of moon-god Allah also discussed in parallel the isreals EL as a sun god citing lot of circumstantial evidences like for the case of the moon god. this sun god has an affinity for bull sacrifices. he related this to the voracious appetite for bull of EL in the old testmament.
1 strongly belive this tendecy towards a god with bovine xteristic was what led the isrealites to make the GOLDEN CALF during the time of Moses as an image of EL. lets say for instance a arhcelogist find the remains of such a diety, he would easily proclaim this as 'evidence'
that EL is a bovine god. Am a geologist and i knw how we build 'facts' based on very circumstantial evidence.

what u guys do not realize is that most of the scholars that propose these absurd ideas are atheist and are only trying to discredit the origin of true religion and God. it is quite dissapointing that some so called christians had to climb on this atheistic bandwagon

there is no iota of fact in the above.

@KunleOshob: « #132 on: Today at 04:50:02 PM »
Quote from: olabowale on Today at 02:43:16 PM
I wanted to know if Yahweh, or Jehovah or Eloi was ever used by any people, before Abram left your? To my surprise no one is addressing that, except in the bigDictionaries, they just sprang to Bible verses, as if that was the very first it was used, and how was the first person who used it in the Bible informed of this? This issue was not addressed, yet wikipedia has the time to tell us about the pagan arabs, bur fails to tell us about the pagan hebrew whose community Abram settled in and adopted their hebrew language as his own!

But in the Quran, Angel Gabreil (AS) told Muhammad the name of the Creator as Allah.
Now who told "Who" in the Bible Old Testament or New Testament that the Creator is Jehovah, or Yahweh or Eloi?
KunleOshob, Noetic, etc these are assignemnts for you guys. You must show us these things. Otherwise your arguments wil be all a rouse and your accusation will not merit any responss.
[b]Exodus 3:4-6:

4And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

5And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

6Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.



Exodus 6:3:
3And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.




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KunleOshob (m)
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Re: The Price Is Only Belief/faith In One Single God, Without Parnership. Buy It Low
« #133 on: Today at 04:54:21 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More
Psalm 83:18
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Isaiah 12:2
Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.[/b][quote][/quote]Please give me your earlest Biblical usage and I know that you cant explain the earliest usage of Yahweh, Jehovah, Eloi, English word (God) better without going to the Bible, especially the OT, since it came before the NT used by Christians, and the Jews dont recognize it!

When you give me your earliest Biblical usage, I will better it or at least match it directly. Let me say this to you, I will show you that Allah Himself spoke to the Angels, saying He intends to create "Viceroy/An Ambassador" to the earth, meaning the first man (Adam), and He Allah created Iblis/Shaitan before it.


And when I better it, or at least equals it, then whatever you apply in derogative statement to Allah, will apply to Jehovah, Yahweh, Eloi (Based on Jesus saying on the Biblical cross), etc. Deal?

olabowale:

@KunleOshob: « #132 on: Today at 04:50:02 PM »
Quote from: olabowale on Today at 02:43:16 PM
[b]I wanted to know if Yahweh, or Jehovah or Eloi was ever used by any people, before Abram left your? [/b]To my surprise no one is addressing that, except in the bigDictionaries, they just sprang to Bible verses, as if that was the very first it was used, and how was the first person who used it in the Bible informed of this? This issue was not addressed, yet wikipedia has the time to tell us about the pagan arabs, bur fails to tell us about the pagan hebrew whose community Abram settled in and adopted their hebrew language as his own!

ur concerns have been addressed. The verses that reveal the name of God have been analysed. And dont forget this thread is all about u selling islam and not about christianity.

But in the Quran, Angel Gabreil (AS) told Muhammad the name of the Creator as Allah.

why should anyone believe this lie?
the same angel gabriel u claimed gave mohammed the koran. . . . only for us to find out that the koran was never written until 300 years after mohammed had died and that the koran has 5 versions. . . .did angel gabriel reveal 5 versions to mohammed?

Please give me your earlest Biblical usage and I know that you cant explain the earliest usage of Yahweh, Jehovah, Eloi, English word (God) better without going to the Bible, especially the OT, since it came before the NT used by Christians, and the Jews dont recognize it!

There is no book of revelation from God that preceded the torah/bible as we know it today. . .so what EXACTLY are u talking about?

When you give me your earliest Biblical usage, I will better it or at least match it directly. Let me say this to you, I will show you that Allah Himself spoke to the Angels, saying He intends to create "Viceroy/An Ambassador" to the earth, meaning the first man (Adam), and He Allah created Iblis/Shaitan before it.


And when I better it, or at least equals it, then whatever you apply in derogative statement to Allah, will apply to Jehovah, Yahweh, Eloi (Based on Jesus saying on the Biblical cross), etc. Deal?

No matter the twists and turns u take. . . .we all know that allah aint the God of the bible, . .simple.

Olabowale is a fake and noisy muslim, the real muslims are in the middle-east calling on their allah for daily attack on whom they believe are infidels.

From Surah Hud we read the below about the Messenger Nuh (Noah) AS.

11:25 : And indeed We sent Nuh (Noah) to his people (and he said): "I have come to you as a plain warner."

11:26 : "That you worship none but Allah, surely, I fear for you the torment of a painful Day."

11:27 : The chiefs of the disbelievers among his people said: "We see you but a man like ourselves, nor do we see any follow you but the meanest among us and they (too) followed you without thinking. And we do not see in you any merit above us, in fact we think you are liars."

InshaAllah, tomorror, I will give you Lout, and Musa (AS), and only had said something aboyr Yahweh only to Moses, and here above I gave Nuh's statement to his peaople mentioning the name of his Lord.

Surah Taha, about the story of Musa at the Burning Bush; Please it, and compare it to what you find of it in the Jewish Torah and see the Superiority of it, in the Quran.

20:8: Allah! La ilahla illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He)! To Him belong the Best Names.
20:9: And has there come to you the story of Musa (Moses)?
20:10: When he saw a fire, he said to his family: "Wait! Verily, I have seen a fire, perhaps I can bring you some burning brand therefrom, or find some guidance at the fire."
20:11: And when he came to it (the fire), he was called by name: "O Musa (Moses)!
20:12: "Verily! I am your Lord! So take off your shoes, you are in the sacred valley, Tuwa.
20:13: "And I have chosen you. So listen to that which is inspired to you.
20:14: "Verily! I am Allah! La ilaha illa Ana (none has the right to be worshipped but I), so worship Me, and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat) for My Remembrance.
20:15: "Verily, the Hour is coming and My Will is to keep it hidden that every person may be rewarded for that which he strives.
20:16: "Therefore, let not the one who believes not therein (i.e. in the Day of Resurrection, Reckoning, Paradise and Hell, etc.), but follows his own lusts, divert you therefrom, lest you perish.

@Noetic: When Allah intended to create things, He ordered the Kalam (Pen) to take Dictations, and that was preserved in a Tablet called Ummuh Kitab (Mother of the Book; Ummuh Qura; recited), which is then placed in Lauin Maafuth in the Seventh Heaven. The Angels heard the Voice of Al Rahman, and knew the Kalam was writing things down.

It is from this BOOK that all revealed Books came from; Torah, Sabur, Injil, Suhufi Ibrahim, wa Musa, and indeed Quran. And before Quran was revealed it was taking down to the First Heaven, and when an issue or condition arises to be addressed, the part of it, that is the ANSWER is then released as commandment to Malaika Jibril, who inturn takes it to the Messenger (AS) to make it plain for the people, the Community of Believers (RA). So your statement about a revelation not older than Torah of the Jews, does not make sense because older does not mean more correct. NO? Your answer may actual sink you Christian statement about Gospel or it sinks the Old is better hypothesis; Head or Tail, you lose, both ways.

Here is the situation with the Quran, its Purity and its measure speed of revelation:


The Quran was revealed in two stages:



Stage One:

In this stage, the Quran was brought by Jibreel from the Preserved Tablet (in the Seventh Heaven) down to the First Heaven (sky) and placed in the 'Place of Power or Honor'. First, the Quran mentions the Preserved Tablets in the verse (which means):

"Nay! This is a Glorious Quran, inscribed in a Preserved Tablet" [Quran 85:21-22]

Then it tells of the fact that it was sent down during a specific night, in the verse (which means):

"By the Book that makes things clear; - We sent it down during a Blessed Night: for We (ever) wish to warn (against Evil). In the (Night) is made distinct every affair of wisdom." [Quran 44:2-4]

And (which means):

"We have indeed sent down this during the Night of Power." [Quran 97:1].

These two verses indicate that the Quran was revealed in a single blessed night in the month of Ramadhaan that is called the 'Night of Power, or Decree'.

Stage Two:

This stage of revelation lasted for about 23 years in which the Quran was sent down in response to the development of events and in accordance with the sequence needed to complete the delivery of the Message.

The Prophet after receiving revelation, would automatically memorize the Quranic verses that were revealed to him and would recite them to whomever was in his company, and order them (the Companions ) to write them down immediately. The Messenger himself used to keep a copy of the revealed portions in his house. The Quran, the last of Allaah’s Scriptures, is divided into 114 'Surahs' (Chapters) of unequal length. It is the first fundamental source of Islamic Sharee’ah (Islamic Law). Allaah, Most High, Says (what means): "… A Quran which We have given seriatim (separated out) in order that you may recite it to the people at intervals and We have caused it to come down successively (by stages)." [Quran 17:106]

But verse 6:7 observes (what means): "If We had sent unto you (O Muhammad) a written (message) on parchment, so that they could touch it with their hands, the unbelievers would have been sure to say: "This is nothing but obvious magic."' [Quran 6:7]

Recording cynical speeches of the unbelievers, Almighty Allaah Says (what means): "Why has the Quran not been vouchsafed to him (Muhammad) in one single whole?" [Quran 25:32]

And the answer to that is the verse (which means): "…that your heart (O Muhammad) may be strengthened, We have rehearsed it to you in slow, well-arranged stages, gradually." [Quran 25:32]

There is no nation that has ever cared about, revered, and preserved its Divine Scripture as the Muslim nation has cared about, revered and preserved the Quran. Unlike the other Divine Scriptures, the Quran is not kept in the hands of a particular group or elite of the Muslims, and for this reason, it is not subject to suspicion that it might have been tampered with or altered. Rather, it has always been within the reach of all Muslims.

This isSurah Buruj, and am sure it is copied/plagiarised from the Jewish Book. No? Read the Tafsir of this Surah and see how the little boy leads his mother to Success, paradise.


85:14 : And He is Oft-Forgiving, full of love (towards the pious who are real true believers of Islamic Monotheism),
85:15 : Owner of the throne, the Glorious
85:16 : He does what He intends (or wills).
85:1: Has the story reached you of the hosts,
85:18: Of Fir'aun (Pharaoh) and Thamud?
85:19: Nay! The disbelievers (persisted) in denying (Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and his Message of Islamic Monotheism).
85:2 : And Allah encompasses them from behind! (i.e. all their deeds are within His Knowledge, and He will requite them for their deeds).
85:21 : Nay! This is a Glorious Quran,
85:22[b]: (Inscribed) in Al-Lauh Al-Mahfuz (The Preserved Tablet)![/b]

I think the above should speak to a good heart: Note that no Muslim has gone from One God Whose Personal Name is Allah to anything else, unlike other nations juggling from Pilar to Post, between God or Gods and man. Unfortunately I listened to part of the Memoir of Late Senator Ted Kennedy of Massachussets, who wrote a letter t the pope a mere human, frail, needing water, food, shelter, and must performs all human functions otherwise he will die just like that,seeking forgiveness! Should anyone not go to HIS CREATOR for this, instead of man, in form of religious leadership or a one that holds Prophetic office like Jesus (AS) or an Angel like Gabreil whom the Christians call Holy Ghost God?

59:11: Have you (O Muhammad SAW) not observed the hypocrites who say to their friends among the people of the Scripture who disbelieve: "(By Allah) If you are expelled, we (too) indeed will go out with you, and we shall never obey any one against you, and if you are attacked (in fight), we shall indeed help you." But Allah is Witness, that they verily, are liars.


In Surah Hashr, above verse calls the People of the Book (Jews, Christians) Disbelievers; Kafaruu. Do you want to die as disbeliever?

Jesus son of Mary (AS) a muslim? Yes. Please read Surah Saff, below.

61:4: Verily, Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in rows (ranks) as if they were a solid structure.
61:5: And (remember) when Musa (Moses) said to his people: "O my people! Why do you hurt me while you know certainly that I am the Messenger of Allah to you? So when they turned away (from the Path of Allah), Allah turned their hearts away (from the Right Path). And Allah guides not the people who are Fasiqun (rebellious, disobedient to Allah).
61:6: And (remember) when 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah unto you confirming the Taurat [(Torah) which came] before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad. But when he (Ahmad i.e. Muhammad SAW) came to them with clear proofs, they said: "This is plain magic."
61:7: And who does more wrong than the one who invents a lie against Allah, while he is being invited to Islam? And Allah guides not the people who are Zalimun (polytheists, wrong-doers and disbelievers) folk.
61:8: They intend to put out the Light of Allah (i.e. the religion of Islam, this Quran, and Prophet Muhammad SAW) with their mouths. But Allah will complete His Light even though the disbelievers hate (it).
61:9: He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islamic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah and in His Messenger Muhammed SAW) hate (it).
61:10: O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment.
61:11: That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know!
61:12: (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success.
61:13: And also (He will give you) another (blessing) which you love, help from Allah (against your enemies) and a near victory. And give glad tidings (O Muhammad SAW) to the believers.
61:1: O you who believe! Be you helpers (in the Cause) of Allah as said 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), to Al-Hawariun (the disciples): "Who are my helpers (in the Cause) of Allah?" Al-Hawarieen (the disciples) said: "We are Allah's helpers" (i.e. we will strive in His Cause!). Then a group of the Children of Israel believed and a group disbelieved. So We gave power to those who believed against their enemies, and they became the uppermost.

The Holy Sprit, not Ghost is Malaika Jibril? Yes:

Who is the Holy Spirit In Islam? By Sami Zaatari

Just like in Christianity, we the Muslims also believe in the Holy spirit, however so our belief in the Holy spirit is quite different than the Christian belief on this matter. However so who is the Holy spirit that the Quran often refers to? :

016.102 : Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.

005.110 : Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'

So who exactly is the Holy Spirit? Let us consult Ibn Kathir's tafsir:

Jibril is Ruh Al-Qudus

The proof that Jibril is the Ruh Al-Qudus is the statement of Ibn Mas`ud in explanation of this Ayah. This is also the view of Ibn `Abbas, Muhammad bin Ka`b, Isma`il bin Khalid, As-Suddi, Ar-Rabi` bin Anas, `Atiyah Al-`Awfi and Qatadah. Additionally, Allah said,

(Which the trustworthy Ruh (Jibril) has brought down. Upon your heart (O Muhammad ) that you may be (one) of the warners) (26:193-194).

Al-Bukhari recorded `A'ishah saying that the Messenger of Allah erected a Minbar in the Masjid on which Hassan bin Thabit (the renowned poet) used to defend the Messenger of Allah (with his poems). The Messenger of Allah said,

(O Allah! Aid Hassan with Ruh Al-Qudus, for he defended Your Prophet.)

Abu Dawud recorded this Hadith in his Sunan as did At-Tirmidhi who graded it Hasan Sahih. Further, Ibn Hibban recorded in his Sahih that Ibn Mas`ud said that the Prophet said,

(Ruh Al-Qudus informed me that no soul shall die until it finishes its set provisions and term limit. Therefore, have Taqwa of Allah and seek your sustenance in the most suitable way.)

Reminding `Isa of the Favors that Allah Granted him

Allah mentions how He blessed His servant and Messenger, `Isa, son of Maryam, and the miracles and extraordinary acts He granted him. Allah said,

(Remember My favor to you) when I created you from your mother, without male intervention, and made you a sign and clear proof of My perfect power over all things. d


(And to your mother) when I made you testify to her chastity and you thus absolved her from the sin that the unjust, ignorant liars accused her of,


(when I supported you with Ruh - il-Qudus) the angel Jibril, and made you a Prophet, calling to Allah in the cradle and manhood. I made you speak in the cradle, and you testified that your mother was free from any immoral behavior, and you proclaimed that you worship Me. You also conveyed the news of My Message and invited them to worship Me.

And also here is what one Sheikh writes concerning this matter:

Praise be to Allaah.

The "Holy Spirit" (Rooh al-Qudus) is Jibreel (peace be upon him). Shaykh al-Shanqeeti said: "The words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning), ?and [We] supported him with Rooh al-Qudus' [al-Baqarah 2:87] refer to Jibreel according to the most sound view. This is indicated by the words (interpretation of the meaning): ?Which the trustworthy Rooh has brought down' [al-Shu'ara' 26:193] and ?then We sent to her our Rooh' [Maryam 19:17]."

Ibn Abi Haatim narrated from Ahmad ibn Sinaan. Abu'l-Za'raa' told us: ?Abd-Allaah said: Rooh al-Qudus ("the Holy Spirit" is Jibreel, then he said: something similar was narrated from Muhammad ibn Ka'b al-Qurazi, Qutaadah, ?Atiyah al-?Awfi, al-Saddi and al-Rabee' ibn Anas.

This view is supported by the above and by the report narrated by the two Shaykhs [al-Bukhaari and Muslim] with their isnaads from Abu Salamah ibn ?Abd al-Rahmaan ibn ?Awf, that he heard Hassaan ibn Thaabit al-Ansaari asking Abu Hurayrah to bear witness, "I ask you by Allaah, did you hear the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say, ?O Hassaan, respond on behalf of the Messenger of Allaah. O Allaah, support him with Rooh al-Qudus'?" Abu Hurayrah said, "Yes."

(al-Tafseer al-Masboor by Dr. Hikmat Basheer, 1/192-193)

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said: the majority of scholars said that this refers to Jibreel (peace be upon him), and that Allaah called him al-Rooh al-Ameen, Rooh al-Qudus and Jibreel."

(Daqaa'iq al-Tafseer, part 1, p. 310)

He wrote an entire chapter on that and said:

Chapter on the meaning of Rooh al-Qudus:

Allaah said (interpretation of the meaning):

"O ?Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Remember My Favour to you and to your mother when I supported you with Rooh ul Qudus [Jibreel (Gabriel)]."

[al-Maa'idah 5:110]

Allaah supported the Messiah (peace be upon him) with Rooh al-Qudus as He mentions in this aayah. In al-Baqarah Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

"And We gave ?Eesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), clear signs and supported him with Rooh-ul-Qudus [Jibreel (Gabriel)]

[al-Baqarah 2:87]

"Those Messengers! We preferred some of them to others; to some of them Allâh spoke (directly); others He raised to degrees (of honour); and to ?Eesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), We gave clear proofs and evidences, and supported him with Rooh ul Qudus [Jibreel (Gabriel)]"

[al-Baqarah 2:253]

This is not limited only to the Messiah; others were also supported in this way. (The scholars) mentioned that Dawood said, "Do not stop supporting me with Rooh al-

Qudus." And our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to Hassaan ibn Thaabit, "O Allaah, support him with Rooh al-Qudus." According to another report: "Rooh al-Qudus will be with you so long as you are defending His Prophet." Both versions are narrated in al-Saheeh.

According to the Christians, the "Holy Spirit" dwelt in the Disciples, and according to them the "Holy Spirit" is something experienced by all of the Prophets. But Allaah says in al-Nahl (interpretation of the meaning):

"Say (O Muhammad) Rooh ul Qudus [Jibreel (Gabriel)] has brought it (the Qur'aan) down from your Lord with truth, that it may make firm and strengthen (the Faith of) those who believe, and as a guidance and glad tidings to those who have submitted (to Allaah as Muslims)"

[al-Nahl 16:102]

"Which the trustworthy Rooh [Jibreel (Gabriel)] has brought down

Upon your heart (O Muhammad)"

[al-Shu'ara' 26:193]

"Whoever is an enemy to Jibreel (Gabriel) (let him die in his fury), for indeed he has brought it (this Qur'aan) down to your heart"

[al-Baqarah 2:97]

So it is clear that Rooh al-Qudus here refers to Jibreel. No one suggests that Rooh al-Qudus means the life of Allaah; nor is this indicated by the wording and this phrase is never used in that sense.

Daqaa'iq al-Tafseer, part 2, p. 92

So it is a consensus among Islamic Scholarship that the Holy Spirit is Jibreel, and this isn't just a mere opinion, the Islamic texts and sources prove this fact, the scholars didn't just make it up. For instance the Quran says this concerning the Holy Spirit:

016.102
YUSUFALI: Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.

So the Holy spirit has brought down the Quran to the prophet Muhammad, this is non other than the angel Jibreel, this is what the Quran says concerning Jibreel:

002.097
YUSUFALI: Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah's will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-

So as you can see the Holy spirit can be non other than the angel Jibreel, the Holy spirit brings down the revelation which strengthens and guides the believers, the angel Jibreel brings down the revelation which strengthens and guides the believers! Hence the Holy Spirit is Jibreel and Jibreel is the Holy spirit!

So in conclusion the Holy Spirit in Islam is not God, nor a semi-God, the Holy Spirit in Islam is non other than the angel Jibreel.

And Allah Knows Best!

http://www.muslim-responses.com/



NOW GUYS YOU HAVE LOST JESUS AND GABRIEL AS GODS. TOMORROW FATHER WILL BE LOST BY SURAH IKLAS.

@olabowale
Even though this is your thread, you are just spamming it and making it tiresome to follow. My 2 cents.

noetic2:

there is no iota of fact in the above.

You keep repeating this same style in all your posts. u prefer to dodge facts. pls higlight the points that are untrue and lets discuss.

@ Olabs

I STRONGLY disagree with ur last 5 posts. . .even though I consider them as spamming.

1. Your claim of allah recording the creation in the kelam prescribed in tablets and later revealed as the injil, torah and koran is false, malicious, fraudulent, misinforming and subsequently unacceptable. . . . .for the following reasons

a. Allah personally does not know the number of days it took him to create the earth. first he said 6 days, he then said 8 and finally lied and said 10 days.
If allah indeed created the earth, he should know how long it took him to make it. . . . .he should not have a problem stating the figures.

b. if allah recorded his creation and word in the tablets of kelam as u claimed. . . . . .and allah also claimed that the bible is corrupt, then allah should not have a problem producing the original bible?, . . . .there should be at least ONE original version left?. . .if there is none, what stops allah from descending another copy of the initial bible he revealed?
why cant allah just produce his original version?

c. if allah was the one who revealed the koran. . . . why did he give 5 versions of the koran to mohammed? or rather, why are there 5 versions of the koran? did allah reveal all the 5 versions in arabic? why was the koran not written until 300 years after the death of mohammed? why the delay, since allah has already revealed the book to mohammed?

u falsely claim that allah revealed the koran within a period of 23 years to mohammed. . . . . .then u claim again that allah sent jubril to give mohammed a book(koran) to read. . . .one must be false. . . .which of them is true?

d. since allah revealed the injil and torah. . . why does he then ask that u kill the christians and jews who follow the book of allah?

and lots more. . . . I await ur answers.

Noetic you do not need to resort to lies to make your arguement

a. pls give your refernce in the quran for 6, 8 and ten days

b. Allah does not need to send an original injeel, the Quran is correction of the bible plus new revealtion for the whole of humanity(not just for isrealites as in case of ther bible)

c. where did you get this from? pls provide evidence?

d. pls cite any verse in the Quran where Allah says we should kill jews and christians.

if you can provide answers then we can continue from there

the_seeker:

Noetic you do not need to resort to lies to make your arguement

a. pls give your refernce in the quran for 6, 8 and ten days

b. Allah does not need to send an original injeel, the Quran is correction of the bible plus new revealtion for the whole of humanity(not just for isrealites as in case of ther bible)

c. where did you get this from? pls provide evidence?

d. pls cite any verse in the Quran where Allah says we should kill jews and christians.

if you can provide answers then we can continue from there

what a violent empty empty head

Notable nairaland muslims do not engage in denials. . .they come up with lies to rationalise all the faults of allah, . , . . wait till olabs comes.
if olabs denies my posts, then I will produce evidences.
I simply refuse to oblige cos u have earlier constituted a nuisance on this thread. . .wait till ur master olabs comes.

Hello Mr Olabowale, please can you keep your post succinct. There are independent followers (oh well, at least me) of this interesting arguments and debates. It would do us good if you do not go into frenzy when copying and pasting, but summarize.
Thanks in advance

whenever u cant provide an answer u resort to insults. all i asked u for is evidence for your lies
pls stop being evasive.

the_seeker:

whenever u cant provide an answer u resort to insults. all i asked u for is evidence for your lies
pls stop being evasive.

1. u asked for evidence, thats ok and normal and I would have been glad to oblige u. . . . .but u FALSELY claimed that my comments are lies.
by calling them lies, u have come to a conclusion. . . and since u do not know what the koran says about my points. . . I can safely assert that ur position is based on ridiculously impotent IGNORANCE. if they are lies. . .whats the truth? can u tender the truth from the koran? how much of the koran do u know?

2. what am I evading? except for jejune assertions of yours and ur ridiculously uninspiring drivel? what would I be evading?

3. why are u debating online? since u called for an open debate, where u can provoke violence just as mohammed and allah taught u?

4. have u ever made any post with sense in ur nairaland life?

i am not the judge in this forum. if they are not lies, pls provide your evidence for all to see?
that way i wont be able to deny it even if i wanted to.
why are you being so evasive

the_seeker:

i am not the judge in this forum. if they are not lies, pls provide your evidence for all to see?
that way i wont be able to deny it even if i wanted to.
why are you being so evasive

can u please shut uo and wait for olabs?

u r so damn predicatable. Lol