@noetic
like a couple of people on here,i have started to frequent the religious section to eagerly read what you and the other dude davidlan have posted on here,however i think you let the man off too easy on the previous page where you posed a couple of questions to him,asking him if jesus or the disciples ever killed anyone,check the answers and all he did was either prevaricate or wave them off or answer the questions with questions,
i await more of your insightful and enlightening expose's on islam
@olabowale
while i am not getting involved in the whole debate,i really think you should adequately answer the questions noetic posed to you on the previous page rather than going off on a tangent about barnabas gospel and what not,moreover it seems to me you are simply patching and adjusting your doctrines to fit in with your stance as you go along and then conveniently pass over the negative bits you cant ignore by either contering with long winded islamic articles or changing the topic.

what the triune means like others have tried to explain to you is that the three the father the son and the holy ghost even though they are three entities,are all part of the same thing like i would say i am my father's blood or i am a part of my father even though i have my own personality,i have my father's name,resemblance,blood,dna e.t.c even though i am different and if you go through the bible the lord has always put his point across through parables and a play of words,so if you take any of the words literally then it means you simply do not understand the bible

GODSON2009:

@noetic
like a couple of people on here,i have started to frequent the religious section to eagerly read what you and the other dude davidlan have posted on here,however i think you let the man off too easy on the previous page where you posed a couple of questions to him,asking him if jesus or the disciples ever killed anyone,check the answers and all he did was either prevaricate or wave them off or answer the questions with questions,
i await more of your insightful and enlightening expose's on islam

thanks.

most readers are already used to olabs style. . . .he is skilfully evasive. . . I believe everyone can make their conclusions.

« #151 on: Today at 11:40:24 AM »  

@ Olabs

I STRONGLY disagree with your last 5 posts. . .even though I consider them as spamming.

You do not expect me to generate anything anew, when the exact thing is on the table for me to take. Muhammad (AS) says that if there are many ways permisible to conduct a task, he will choose the easiest. I could have written the same thing, but why trying to deceive you when those who are better have done a better job for me to simply copy and answer your Question?

1. Your claim of allah recording the creation in the kelam prescribed in tablets and later revealed as the injil, torah and koran is false, malicious, fraudulent, misinforming and subsequently unacceptable. . . . .for the following reasons

The problem is that you do not accept it, but cant proof it wrong. Unlike the muslims who say that your trinity is not correct and you proof it by not having it in any part of the Bible. We say that Jesus is no God, and we provide the evidence that Jesus and his mother Mary behaved like humans, needing all human things. We say there are no three Gods, and you proof it by trying to make them fit one God, and Islam says that Gods would be trying to undo or overcome one another to finally achieve Supremacy by one of them who finally emerges the winner, the lone God. Is this not a possible scenerio if you have three partners each complete, not needing the others to make decisions, the intent then is to get rid of the others who are in the same exact power and position.

Whats the use of having a God that dies, when the Ones who remained were capable of taking care of all things while death took the former? He must not have been a God, except that you say it out of your personal desire.

Whats the use f a God wose name you dont know except that you call him Holy Ghost which has played no role except running errants for the "Father God?" I say the Ghost is a Holy spirit known as Malaika Jibril, another creation from Light, like all Malaika. Mikail, Israfil, etc are Malaika, too.

a. Allah personally does not know the number of days it took him to create the earth. first he said 6 days, he then said 8 and finally lied and said 10 days.
If allah indeed created the earth, he should know how long it took him to make it. . . . .he should not have a problem stating the figures.

How Old are you man? I  am sure you must sleep in each of those years. So we will say your are 30. So lets add up your activities by years; Say you slept for 7 years, then you studied for 15 years, and you ate for 2 years bath for 6 months, talked for 3 years, and other activities  8 years. If we add up all the years you us for all the activities, it may be more than 30 years, because you are a fraud who is not telling us your actual age, especially when Mom and Dad provide us your birth cerificate, except that you do some of these activities at the same time. Like sleeping and still breathing. Like studying and can eat some snacks and still breathing. Like showing and talking and still breathing. This is exactly the way Allah created everything within 6 days (periods) because some different actives overlapped in their time of occurrences. Allah can do all things at the same time if He ordains it, as He has said in the Quran, if mankind and jinn gather together and all in the same time individually ask Him for their different needs, He will hear every one, and able to fulfill each of them.

b. if allah recorded his creation and word in the tablets of kelam as u claimed. . . . . .and allah also claimed that the bible is corrupt, then allah should not have a problem producing the original bible?,  . . . .there should be at least ONE original version left?. . .if there is none, what stops allah from descending another copy of the initial bible he revealed?
why cant allah just produce his original version?

The Essence of the Torah, Sabur and Injil are in the Quran. What are they; La ilaha illah. kimu salaah, wa attau zakat, wa akimu Saum, wa Dhikr Rabbi Katira! And by the way you already see that the essence of the missions of the prophets of the Old nations are in the Quran. Go read them and stop being so arrogant. Finally the all these Books are now abrogated by the very Complete and alway prstined Quran. Allah promises and fulfilling His Promise to safeguard te Quran as never to be corrupted.

c. if allah was the one who revealed the koran. . . . why did he give 5 versions of the koran to mohammed? or rather, why are there 5 versions of the koran? did allah reveal all the 5 versions in arabic?  why was the koran not written until 300 years after the death of mohammed? why the delay, since allah has already revealed the book to mohammed?

Is yoruba language not spoken with accents; Owo accent, Ijebu Ode accent, Ibadan accent, Eko accent, Abeokuta accent, Ondo accent, Iwo accent, Oyo accent, Akure accent, Ado Ekiti accent, Ede accent and many many more. Are these people not speak and reading Yoruba language and yoruba language Books with an accent/accents; this is what Warsh, Hafs, Uthmani, Kufar, etc are and a person can read Quran in all of those styles, and they are not versions like KJV, NIV, ASV, Catholic Douwy, etc!

u falsely claim that allah revealed the koran within a period of 23 years to mohammed. . . . . .then u claim again that allah sent jubril to give mohammed a book(koran) to read. . . .one must be false. . . .which of them is true?

My grandmother didnt go to school, and I am sure that somebody in the past generations in your bloodline  did not go to school. But mine was able to repeat from memory the history of her family, and she happend to be a muslim (ra) and she recited Quran.This means that she was reading a Book of her family history from memory. This means that she was reading Quran from memory too. Muhammad and not Muhammed recited Quran from memory; Allah says He will accertain that he is able to keep it by heart and there is no better Teacher than Allah, and Malaika Jibril was assigned a tutor to over this.And since t was compiled to a Book until Muhammad (AS) left, then this is another devine prediction of "future" occurence which has been fulfilled. The revelation was for 23 years, from his age 40 when the first 5 verses of Surah Alaq (Creation) to his death at 63. Can you proof any difference and not but without complete exidence!

d. since allah revealed the injil and torah. . . why does he then ask that u kill the christians and jews who follow the book of allah?

If you dont disagree with Yahweh killing the military of Egypt in the sea, the killing of the people of Jericho and others under Moses, Joshua, and indeed the children of Israel to get back the promise land, because of their "disbelief" then you should havent any disagreement with Allah because of your "disbelief" as well which you are spared of your women, olds, the noncombatants, your animals, etc. This is a better deal than what Moses did, and if Jesus had the chance, the means and the ways, based on the not to "abolish" the laws and the prophets, he was a real champion of the same thing, the reason he said "I did not come with peace but war, ", demanding that the disciples buy swords, and they knew him for what he was, so they bought them, and a litmus was his turning the table of the moneychangers "over"!

and lots more. . . . I await your answers.

Jagoon: I do not have a thread of my own. Finally, Quran answers questions thoroughly and completely. Should I give you or another person half answers or go directly to the Quran to give you what should be more than enough?

@z-murda: There is no frenzy in my answers. Allah provides ample answers and I give it as my Creator provides.

@The Seeker: As Salaamualaykum WR Taala WB. May Allah reward you in all your effort. I wish you and yours the best of this holy month and the best in your entire lives.

@ olabs

unfortunately I read through that long posts. . .but did not find answers to my questions,

1. why did allah give different figures for the number of days it took to make the earth. why was allah not consistent in stating that he made the earth in 6 days? why did he have to say 8 and 10 days in other chapters of the koran? was allah lying? why should I believe allah made the earth?

2. why did allah not protect the injil or bible? why did allah let it go corrupt? And since it is now corrupt, why cant allah send another copy of the original? is it cos allah is a fraud?

3. u did not explain why allah had to reveal 5 versions of the koran? was jubril stating the verses 5 times, using different tones or what? why are there 5 versions of a text allah sent from paradise?

4. u acknowledged that allah revealed the koran to mohammed over 23 years. . . so is it a lie that jubril gave the koran to mohammed and commanded him to read?
who EXACTLY is lying? is it allah? mohammed? or the muslims?

5.  I still dont understand why allah wants u to kill christians and jews, since he was the one who revealed their injil, bible and torah? do u mind explaining?

@olabowale
for the sake of those of us who dont really know much about islam,could you enlighten us why mohammad has so much controversies surrounding him,for a prophet who should be seen to be holy and blameless and a shining example for what we the latter generation should follow and aspire to
he surely has not done a good job of it

1.he was alledged to be a sexual hedonist with proofs in the quran and hadiths
2.he was totally and unequivocally sexist
3.why the several inconsistencies e.g first he claimed to be persecuted at the beginning of his prophetic ministry when he wasnt i actual fact he was riling all the other religions up unnecessarily,
4.promote violence even against children as well

i could go on and on,not only that,surely its not a good example to promote hate speeches,marry a woman old enough to be my aunty(in these days when women married really young my mother's age mate)

then go to the other extreme by marrying a six years old girl,however in credit to him he waited till she was 9 yrs old


for anything you might have against christianity,i am yet to see where jesus christ did any of these stuffs or even accused of it,what islam and any other religions have been able to come up with has been mostly doctrines and the words of the bible which most have interpreted literally,pls without the long winded islamic verses educate me why mohammad had way soo much controversy surrounding him

@GODSON2009:

what the triune means like others have tried to explain to you is that the three the father the son and the holy ghost even though they are three entities,are all part of the same thing like i would say i  am my father's blood or i am a part of my father even though i have my own personality,i have my father's name,resemblance,blood,dna e.t.c even though i am different

If you are correct, except empty statement that does not make a lick of sense, I have daddy's woman for you and see how quickly you are told that you aint Daddy and your position is not ike daddy's. This is what Triune is, fake, just like you will be told by Daddy's woman that you aint Daddy.

and if you go through the bible the lord has always put his point across through parables and a play of words,so if you take any of the words literally then it means you simply do not understand the bible

So when Jesus says I and my father are one is not literal then, but you did not treat it like a parable? How about when he said "bring him before me and slay him?" How about the buying of Swords which his disciple went ahead and buy? Or do you know Jesus better than them? How about Jesus cursing people out, when he said they should never curse anybody except the curser will go to Hell? How about the tree that was killed; not killed? How the Devils temptations, they did not happen? And when he said he will spend 3 days and 3 night as a sign, and he only spent part of it, that was not literal, too? How about all the claims that based on that you call him God, not literal?

Abeg ol boy make your mind up, before you start being Ice and steam at the same time!

If I did not answer Noetics questions, The Seeker will, if Noetic behaves like a gentleman and a scholar. I know its very hard for a ramboucious arrogant man.

If I did not answer Noetics questions, The Seeker will, if Noetic behaves like a gentleman and a scholar. I know its very hard for a ramboucious arrogant man.

1. how does a gentle man and a scholar behaves? . . . by believing lies?

2. The-seeker is too obviously ignorant. . . . he needs more tutelage from his imam. . .not that u are better or dont lie than him. , . . . , , but u dont live deep in denial like him.

3. when are going to answer my questions?

Noetic is a lazy bum when it comes to reading. Alhamdulillah the Thread is not for only you. Others can read from it. Am satisfied as a human being that we Islam has killed off Trinity, God son, Mother God, Ghost God, and Father God. Father we all all have our own. All we have to ask is mom and she will tell us who is Daddy.

Those who didnt have daddy; Adam, Created from soil and water.

Eve: By cloning to come out as a different gender.

Jesus: By a command through announcement of "Holy Spirit; Malaika Jibril".

@Noetic: « #167 on: Today at 06:30:21 PM »

1. how does a gentle man and a scholar behaves? . . . by believing lies?

Gentleman and a scholar do think. You dont and am sorry to say. They ask question that make sense after reading a material. You dont even read and your questions are so drony that its almost exhausting to look at them and then you are unappreciative of anybody's honesty and sincere effort to accomodate your ignominy.

2. The-seeker is too obviously ignorant. . . . he needs more tutelage from his imam. . .not that u are better or dont lie than him. , . . . , , but u dont live deep in denial like him.

So proof that what Quran says about Jesus, his mother, Holy spirit Jibril, Trinity, etc is wrong? What part is a lie and give us a full intelligent answer and not just one of your outbursts. That is not allowed, Noetic!

3. when are going to answer my questions?

What Question is unanswered after reading the piece that we say answers it? Wake up man from the OStrich syndrome you are in. There is no three Gods, and you cant proof it!

@Olabowale
We are anxiously and eagerly waiting for your answers, your evasive tactics would do you and your attampt at propagating islam no good. I think you should be a gentle man and answer the questions even if you have to admit the fallacies in islam. It doesn't hurt to be honest does it?

@GODSON2009: « #165 on: Today at 06:17:58 PM »  
@olabowale
for the sake of those of us who dont really know much about islam,could you enlighten us why mohammad has so much controversies surrounding him,for a prophet who should be seen to be holy and blameless and a shining example for what we the latter generation should follow and aspire to
he surely has not done a good job of it

[/quote] Tribe for tribe, Muhammad (AS) faired better, much much better with the arabs, than Jesus with his own Children of Israel people. Look around. John the Baptist who didnt do anything they killed him. Isaac slept with own son's wife posing a harlot. Jacob connived to deceive dad with the halp of mom over brother. And these are your holiest of people. Everyone do have their own share of enemies. Having enemies is not the litmus of not being a prophet. Moses had his; the whole of Egypt and then some children of Israel. Jesus had his!


[quote]1.he was alledged to be a sexual hedonist with proofs in the quran and hadiths

Provide them. And henism is Christian's peoples idea. Stop the lies, man.

2.he was totally and unequivocally sexist

The first prophet (AS) that created equality between the genders; Adam could not blame Eve in Islam. Both of them liable for their actions, it is no more "that woman you put beside me made me do it; Jews and Christians story of the apple."

3.why the several inconsistencies e.g first he claimed to be persecuted at the beginning of his prophetic ministry when he wasnt i actual fact he was riling all the other religions up unnecessarily,

Moses cancelled disbelief; the religion of egyptians, Jesus cancelled disbelief the religion of Pharisee, etc. This is Just the same with Muhammad, cancelling disbelief, the idolatry of the Arabs. And please show me that Muhammad was oppressing the makkans and yet he ran away from the same makka to madina?

4.promote violence even against children as well

Show me the childrens violence. Jesus was violent the Money changers, against a tree.

i could go on and on,not only that,surely its not a good example to promote hate speeches,marry a woman old enough to be my aunty(in these days when women married really young my mother's age mate)

You must be young. A matured woman wants a man. Today they have what is called Qougars in America. Demi Moore is one. So is Vivica Fox.

then go to the other extreme by marrying a six years old girl,however in credit to him he waited till she was 9 yrs old

Am one of the feww who believe that she is not that young. thou looked that young, unless you can tell me that she was born many years after her father became Muslim. Do you know the year of Abu Bakr's convertion? Thats your assignment as a landmarking event to determine how trly old she was by the time she arrived as a wife of the Prophet (AS). If I wanna know how old you are, I may use when Bukhari overthrew Shagari to determine it. That was 19983. No? calculate Aisha's age with the time her father became a muslim.

for anything you might have against christianity,i am yet to see where jesus christ did any of these stuffs or even accused of it,what islam and any other religions have been able to come up with has been mostly doctrines and the words of the bible which most have interpreted literally,pls without the long winded islamic verses educate me why mohammad had way soo much controversy surrounding him

If am long winded what do you need me for to explain 1400 years plus with a line? Do you think its like the "Love your God with all your heart and love our neighbor as yourself," the full summary of the OT that Jesus said must never be abrogated and all must be kept intact, including the smallest jot?

You must be kidding me, if you look at the fact that Jesus did not marry and you guys abandoned his advise to you and you abrogated the whole of OT, who then could be certain of anyhing you say, but as a lie, abrogations preplacing the OT?

noetic, i think Olabs is letting you off to easy by bothering to answer your questions without u giving any evidence for such claims.
in my experience most christians doggedly repeat baseless attacks on islam that were used since medieval times by christian missionaries that knew close to nothing about islam. modern scholarship has debunked all these hilaroius claims as false. i was insisting on your evidence for all those claims for the benefit of all so they dont keep repeating the same jargons without any basis. whenever the muslims in the house make any claims they quote verses in the bible and quran as evidence

olabs has so well answered your question, however your stupidity would have been more obvious and undeniable if you had provided your 'evidence' for all to see

@olabowale
again,as intelligent as you are when reciting your quran and religious texts,you fall short horribly when it comes to interpreting the bible i would have expected someone like you taking the stand for islam to have not only read the bible like a story book as you obviously as done,ut study it and understood,first of all concerning the triune which i tried explaining,your retort as usual was to go off on a tangent talking about daddy's woman,anyone including jesus relationship with his father is totally different from our relationship with our earthly father because we are mere mortals while jesus and GOD operate on a higher level,i am sure u will agree with me that GOD never disclsed to us either through the bible or quran that he was married so that argument you have put foward falls flat on its face.

when jesus says i and our father are one,its like babangida or abacha or any influential rich man's son saying the same thing,if you were your father's only son and he had properties and companies spread out,will you not make pronouncements and order your father's staffs around?
a typical real life example is paddy adenuga sacking people some who are his father's mate in his father's company,he does not own the company yet he is operating in his father's stead,what that tells us is that both father and son are into each other,understand each other in every way shape or form, i am taking the pains to use these examples because that has been your own style as well.


slaying,buying of swords e.t.c takes me back to noetic's question which you skillfully evaded, can you show us any event/or events where jesus and his disciples slayed or tried to actually slay anyone??either in the bible or any other account, thank GOD mohammad didint say so as well while i could show you more than one quranic verses where mohammad enjoined his followers to behead and cut off fingers of unbeleivers,jews e.t.c

are you equating a tree that was cursed to the multitudes mohammed killed,the children he had his followers kill (i have written proof)
the multitudes of slave girls he was sleeping with?i have proof too and the numerous hate speeches

tell me,is that the mark of a prophetplease answer my questions which is that

why is it that mohammad,being a supposedly pious,holy e.t.c prophet is surrounded by more controversies than tb joshua and guru maharaji put together?

why is it that the best you have been a ble to come up with in the bible is often quotes either taken out of context or mis interpreted?
show us where jesus christ even suggested any sexual immorality,considering he had opportunities like mohammad,and even more than mohammad to indulge in such vices yet he did not
show us where jesus led marauders to kill and destroy
or where jeuss promotes hate against any other religion

OLABOWALE pls have it clearly in your mind that i have not left NOETIC all alone on this debate, as soon as i finish office write-up by this wkend i'll make sure i disgrace you on this debate.

Already i have observed many areas you delebrately stabbed yourself keep it up.

noetic in case you do not understand what i mean by evidence let me give u a simple example

CLAIM-
jesus is God

EVIDENCE THAT THIS IS FALSE-

The Powerless "God"
"I can of mine own self do nothing." (John, 5:30)


A Weak "God":
"And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, STRENGTHENING him." (Luke, 22:43)

"The Ignorant God"
”But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark, 13:32)
"And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he (Jesus) was hungry: And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find anything thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet." (Mark, 11:12-13)


The not so good “God”
"And behold, one came and said unto him: 'Good master, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?'
And he [Jesus] said unto him, 'Why callest thou me good?  There is none good but one, that is God” (Mathew 19:16-17)


The Devil Tempted "God" For 40 Days:
"And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness. And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan." (Mark, 1:12-13)

Racist "God":
"The Lion of the tribe of Juda." (Revelation,5:5)
"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew, 15:24)
"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles,and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather tothe lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew, 10:5-6)
"It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs." (Matthew, 15:26)

Noetic this is what is called evidence. I want you or any of your cohorts to prove to me that these verses are not from the bible or they mean something else.

Pls dont try to evade this time agian by insulting me
All i need is a cogent response

Since you read from back cover to front cover therefore i wont really blame you for not understanding the bible.

@olabowale
yes,he fared much better with the arabs because they had nothing against him to start with,so why the lies that he was persecuted
even when he started cursing all the religions around him,to his follower's mortification then did not cut his head off i have written proof of when the followers prostrated in relief(muslims) when he gave his word that he will henceforth mind his biz wax ill oblidge you if you want.

the reason christians didnt fare as well was because we have always had democratic religious practises rather than dictatorial like you have always had,abraham,moses e.t.c as great as they were could not wake up one day and decide to sleep with a 9 yrs old girl and the lord will not strike in anger.
dont just read the bible sire,understand,christians did not kill jon the baptist,king herod who gave the order was not a christian and secondly he was tricked,his wife hated john the baptist,and after his beloved daughter danced beautifully he asked her to make any waish in the midst of everybody and he shall grant her,the mother told her to ask for the head of john the baptist,he could not refuse because he had to stand by his word even though the bible makes it clear he was reluctant to do so.

you are as usual turning a direct question on its head,while these you have mentioned are human,the point is that they are not our own ultimate ,jesus is your own equivalent of jesus is mohammad, leading us to the question again, why is it that your own equivalent had soo much controversies surrounding him??
considering he is the ultimate prophet for you muslims?you are totally right having enemies is not the litmus,but i am talking of "controversies and this cloud hanging over his head"

olabowale:

@GODSON2009: « #165 on: Today at 06:17:58 PM »  
@olabowale
Provide them. And henism is Christian's peoples idea. Stop the lies, man.

ill ive you just a few as you have asked for it lol lol
1.how come mohammad conveniently had a relevation from his own GOD,just when he was lusting after zaynab his daughter in law?
But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah's command shall be performed."  quran 33.37

2.another one,lincense for him to get down with as many chikitos as he desires, O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you, quran 33.50(anyone would think he will be busy propagating the gospel but he was competing with m.k.o abiola lol)

3.his allah even  conveniently permitted him to get down with married slaves, this moahmmad is a bad ass abeg lol
And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess, quran 4.24

mohammed posed this question to one of his followers

Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you could sport with her and she could sport with you, or you could amuse with her and she could amuse with you

ill stop for now but i still have more,

olabowale:

@GODSON2009: « #165 on: Today at 06:17:58 PM »  
@olabowale


The first prophet (AS) that created equality between the genders; Adam could not blame Eve in Islam. Both of them liable for their actions, it is no more "that woman you put beside me made me do it; Jews and Christians story of the apple."

ph i see,ma bad is that the justification for you muslims starting with mohammad who forbade his widows from marrying and then disinheriting them from his estate??or hoping for 71 virgins when you get to paradise??like the guys asked you(i think noetic)what will the women be looking foward to an eternal life of alhaji calling on them to "service them anytime they wish?? meen i i was a muslim i would never pray to have female children because they will suffer on earth getting married at pre puberty,a lifetime of flogging and covering up their faces and staying in the background,they will get to heaven and be bin laden's sexual orgy partners

olabowale:

@GODSON2009: « #165 on: Today at 06:17:58 PM »  
@olabowale


Moses cancelled disbelief; the religion of egyptians, Jesus cancelled disbelief the religion of Pharisee, etc. This is Just the same with Muhammad, cancelling disbelief, the idolatry of the Arabs. And please show me that Muhammad was oppressing the makkans and yet he ran away from the same makka to madina?

again as usual using the bible to justify your actions,and then using questions to answer a direct question you can do better sire, again dont spread falsehood here sire,mohammed was the architect of his own misfortune what he did for him to flee in modern parlance is called"treason"
"he made a treaty of war against the local residents while living amongst them"how ungrateful can anyone be!

olabowale:

Show me the childrens violence. Jesus was violent the Money changers, against a tree.

ill show you as soon as you answer my many questions which you have neglected to properly address

olabowale:

Show me the childrens violence. Jesus was violent the Money changers, against a tree.


You must be young. A matured woman wants a man. Today they have what is called Qougars in America. Demi Moore is one. So is Vivica Fox.

hmmm i see,is that mohammed's justification or yoursif you ask me i think he was a gold digger because all the evident signs point to that fact, rich older lady ,widowed and in need of companion,a young man in his twenties takes advantage and marries into money and influence, from manager to warming madam khadija's bed, demi moore and vivica fox are wiser now,you wont see them marrying peniless pool boys who want to use them to further his own  ideals,if that khadija woman had been wise,we probably wouldnt be going through all this blood letting now because he wouldnt have had the money and connections to start this whole islam thing

olabowale:




Am one of the feww who believe that she is not that young. thou looked that young, unless you can tell me that she was born many years after her father became Muslim. Do you know the year of Abu Bakr's convertion? Thats your assignment as a landmarking event to determine how trly old she was by the time she arrived as a wife of the Prophet (AS). If I wanna know how old you are, I may use when Bukhari overthrew Shagari to determine it. That was 19983. No? calculate Aisha's age with the time her father became a muslim.

i deal in facts not conjecture,that is your evidence he married her at the age of six years old

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah's Messenger (, may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him.(muslim 8;3309 also check bukhari 58;234)

the poor little baby,i can imagine what she was going through if a pot bellied man,fat with scraggly beard approached her,as the new husband at that age, her father was not convinced untill mohammad used the man's head filling it with all sorts of lies check bukhari 62;18

olabowale:




If am long winded what do you need me for to explain 1400 years plus with a line? Do you think its like the "Love your God with all your heart and love our neighbor as yourself," the full summary of the OT that Jesus said must never be abrogated and all must be kept intact, including the smallest jot?

You must be kidding me, if you look at the fact that Jesus did not marry and you guys abandoned his advise to you and you abrogated the whole of OT, who then could be certain of anyhing you say, but as a lie, abrogations preplacing the OT?

i just need you to explain in a couple of lines why mohammad is surrounded by the cloud of sexual vices,allegations of paedophillia,violence and intollerance e.t.c for a normal human being  i wouldnt raise an eyebrow,but for a supposed"prophet"with hundreds of millions of followers, you guys deserve more in the manner of moral probity dont u think?

if you want to talk of abrogate,abeg its full in the quran,abrogation of earlier verses where mohammad tolerated other religions especially the jews to the latter part where he enjoins his followers to kill and behead them, abrogation of earlier verses where he enjoins his folowers to only fight defensively to later telling them to kill all unbeleivers(jihad)

the_seeker:

noetic in case you do not understand what i mean by evidence let me give u a simple example

CLAIM-
jesus is God

EVIDENCE THAT THIS IS FALSE-

The Powerless "God"
"I can of mine own self do nothing." (John, 5:30)


A Weak "God":
"And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, STRENGTHENING him." (Luke, 22:43)

"The Ignorant God"
”But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark, 13:32)
"And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he (Jesus) was hungry: And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find anything thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet." (Mark, 11:12-13)


The not so good “God”
"And behold, one came and said unto him: 'Good master, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?'
And he [Jesus] said unto him, 'Why callest thou me good?  There is none good but one, that is God” (Mathew 19:16-17)


The Devil Tempted "God" For 40 Days:
"And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness. And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan." (Mark, 1:12-13)

Racist "God":
"The Lion of the tribe of Juda." (Revelation,5:5)
"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew, 15:24)
"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles,and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather tothe lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew, 10:5-6)
"It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs." (Matthew, 15:26)

Noetic this is what is called evidence. I want you or any of your cohorts to prove to me that these verses are not from the bible or they mean something else.

Pls dont try to evade this time agian by insulting me
All i need is a cogent response

are these ur evidences? I can also see that u are new to nairaland. , . .
if u spend half as much time as u spend on the bible reading ur koran. , u would not come across as so ridiculously ignorant.

the_seeker:

noetic, i think Olabs is letting you off to easy by bothering to answer your questions without u giving any evidence for such claims.
in my experience most christians doggedly repeat baseless attacks on islam that were used since medieval times by christian missionaries that knew close to nothing about islam. modern scholarship has debunked all these hilaroius claims as false. i was insisting on your evidence for all those claims for the benefit of all so they dont keep repeating the same jargons without any basis. whenever the muslims in the house make any claims they quote verses in the bible and quran as evidence

olabs has so well answered your question, however your stupidity would have been more obvious and undeniable if you had provided your 'evidence' for all to see

did u notice that olabs did not deny any of my claims. , . .u need to go to ur imam and get some islamic education. . , so that way ur koranic ignorance and folly would not be widely exposed when u come around

@GODSON2009: How do you interprete the begging of Jesus in the garden of Geshemane as he prayed, except what it is; begging?!
How do you interprete oh Israel your Lord and my Lord is but One God, except what it is, the speaker and listeners have One God?

@KunleOshob: What questions did we not answer from Noetic?

@Skyone: We will be waiting, InshaAllah!

@Noetic: Continue to project your Ostrich Syndrome.

@The Seeker: Salaamualaykum wa Rahmatullahi Taala wa Barackatuh.
May Allah reward you and give you strength to struggle against the evil of evil Multitude.

@Alhaji Olabowale, honestly, theres no question u have not answered this people particularly Noetic, i think they just want to get u down unnesssarily,May Allah reward you again,Asalamu Alekum sir,welldone

@uplawal
I guess it would have been ok if your father had given you away to be dis-membered by a man old enough to be your grand father when you were six years old.
Religion truely breeds insanity.

noetic2:

are these your evidences? I can also see that u are new to nairaland. , . .
if u spend half as much time as u spend on the bible reading your koran. , u would not come across as so ridiculously ignorant.

Another of your evasive manoeuvres. Olab has best described you with Ostritch Synrome. what more evidence can be stronger than verses from the bible. Pls tell me what other manner of evidence u want me to provide. or do u want me to summon christ to come and speak to you in person since his words a recorded in the bible cant make sense to you?

if you or any of your cohorts cant respond to my challange we will considered that the issue of christ divinity is debunked as another wicked fallacy imposed upon christendom

Jagoon:

@uplawal
I guess it would have been ok if your father had given you away to be dis-membered by a man old enough to be your grand father when you were six years old.
Religion truely breeds insanity.

the_seeker:

Another of your evasive manoeuvres. Olab has best described you with Ostritch Synrome. what more evidence can be stronger than verses from the bible. Pls tell me what other manner of evidence u want me to provide. or do u want me to summon christ to come and speak to you in person since his words a recorded in the bible cant make sense to you?

if you or any of your cohorts cant respond to my challange we will considered that the issue of christ divinity is debunked as another wicked fallacy imposed upon christendom

I am not very good at engaging bigots in a discussion.

@Noetic: Go to the mirror and see who is staring back at you. That person is the Biggest Bigot I have ever met in my life. That person is naked shameless in his stubborn ignorance as he blindly rejects every possible and practical explanation and answer to his questions, assumptions, etc.

Should muslims give better evidence of Oneness of Allah and separates the Almighty from the socalled moon-god allah as the enemies of Islam wants us to believe? There is no better evidence available under the sun than Quran and the explanation of what the Quran says by the ahadith. If you have it, any of you nonMuslims, then show it. We the muslims are not shakened by your moon-god label. He is sun God, human God, angel God, star God. The truth is that allah of the preIslamic arab is the same as oluwa of the preMonotheistic yoruba, while Allah of the Muslims is the same as Oluwa of One God believers of yoruba people.

And we in Islam ask the Christians; please tell us how three entities; Jesus who you claimed died for some times, Ghost who you can not identify by name as you do with Jesus and Yahweh an always in command entity all are One God, without any explanation, yet they are always 100% full Gods, in life and in the death of Jesus?


When none of you can give us a fool-proof, know that there is n All Powerful in Command God, without partners and always alive and undiminished in His Authority and Position and Able to do all things. He is Allah and there is nothing likened on to Him, Unique in every aspect of all definitions. This uniqueness kills the "make man in Our own image" and "trinity, as trinity is saying that there are more than One Creator", etc, ideas. They are simply ideas, like idea of "Evolution", it cant be proven and, speculations without practical evidences to proof it and evidences to reel against any opposition that is evidentially correct is not good enough.

noetic2:



I am not very good at engaging bigots in a discussion.

You obviously are not good at anything. like Olabs rightly said, your head is buried in the sand

olabowale:

@Noetic: Go to the mirror and see who is staring back at you. That person is the Biggest Bigot I have ever met in my life. That person is naked shameless in his stubborn ignorance as he blindly rejects every possible and practical explanation and answer to his questions, assumptions, etc.

Should muslims give better evidence of Oneness of Allah and separates the Almighty from the socalled moon-god allah as the enemies of Islam wants us to believe? There is no better evidence available under the sun than Quran and the explanation of what the Quran says by the ahadith. If you have it, any of you nonMuslims, then show it. We the muslims are not shakened by your moon-god label. He is sun God, human God, angel God, star God. The truth is that allah of the preIslamic arab is the same as oluwa of the preMonotheistic yoruba, while Allah of the Muslims is the same as Oluwa of One God believers of yoruba people.

And we in Islam ask the Christians; please tell us how three entities; Jesus who you claimed died for some times, Ghost who you can not identify by name as you do with Jesus and Yahweh an always in command entity all are One God, without any explanation, yet they are always 100% full Gods, in life and in the death of Jesus?


When none of you can give us a fool-proof, know that there is n All Powerful in Command God, without partners and always alive and undiminished in His Authority and Position and Able to do all things. He is Allah and there is nothing likened on to Him, Unique in every aspect of all definitions. This uniqueness kills the "make man in Our own image" and "trinity, as trinity is saying that there are more than One Creator", etc, ideas. They are simply ideas, like idea of "Evolution", it cant be proven and, speculations without practical evidences to proof it and evidences to reel against any opposition that is evidentially correct is not good enough.

For the purpose of this thread I agree that I am a bigot and also ignorant. . . . , . .so now I need help.
without resorting to long stories. . .can u illustrate 10 issues about islam that I am ignorant about. . . , these 10 issues must be ur selling point for islam.

@olabowale
AGAIN you have neglected to answer my main questions about your prophet mohammad regarding the controversies surrounding him and his religion,neither have you acknowledged the bare facts i have given you backed up with your own religious texts, instead you are resorting to your old tricks answering questions with conjectures, if jesus christ begged that GOD should pass the cup over him,that is to show you and also confirm that our father in heaven GOD,because of his love for us paid the ultimate sacrifice by sacrificing his only begotten son(begotten not in our own context of giving birth,but sort of his own companion,helper son e.t.c) not only to come to earth,but to experience everything pain,dissappointments,violence e.t.c that every normal human beings experience so that we would not have the excuse of saying he does not feel what we are feeling as an excuse in the last days, jesus was only being human by asking that the impending suffering be passed over his head, if you saw a vision that your side will be pierced by spears,you will be whipped e.t.c as long as you are human,human nature will kick in.

nobody has ever said we have 2 or 3 gods, we have one GOD,jesus his son which i have explained his duties earlier on to you and the holy ghost who he sent as jesus replacement when he rose up, remember in the bible he said to the disciples that he will send them a messenger that will replce him?that is the holy ghost hence the reason why it is said GOD the father the son and the holy ghost, if we worshipped 3 GODS then we should be saying GOD 1,GOD2 AND GOD 3 OR SENIOR GOD AND 2 JUNIOR GODS RIGHT?

why do you think GOD called himself the GOD of issac?and also that isaac was his beloved,
it is because isaac did what GOD later did with jesus christ,offered his only son as a sacrifice,

@Uplawal: As Salaamualaykum WR Taala WB, Ukhtu (Sister). May Allah make it easy for you and bless you and accept all you ibadah and unite us all with our beloved Muhammad (AS) on the day that he has been promised ((Surah Mariam's Verse 87) Intercession (Shaffa), a position of honor over all those who will allowed to make less honoring shaffa (other Messengers and Prophets (AS) and Shuadahs, etc), and be covered by it, the HONORING SHAFA before Allah. Amin.


@Jagoon:#183 on: Today at 07:22:32 AM »  

@uplawal
I guess it would have been ok if your father had given you away to be dis-membered by a man old enough to be your grand father when you were six years old.
Religion truely breeds insanity.

Abu Bakr (RA) is like today's Donald Trump of New York City. If "The Donald" had married off Ivanka at any age, say 18, when it is now a fashion that most women if not al prefer carriers over family, am sure somebody in New York during the announcement will have something to say. And definitely 1400 years from now, when the story of Manhattan's elites are being told and Trump is mentioned to have married of Ivanka to the best man in the whole of America, indeed the world for all times, some looney will say that the husband, who took this woman, an obviously smart level headed girl, unlike Paris Hilton, etc, is an evil man. Why marry her at 18, and not waiting until she is success in her carrier say at 45 because people now live to a right full age of 180 in Space Station? Abu Bakr (RA) the father of Aisha (RA) is the Trump of his time, so the similarity in my analysis.


We have asked, and am here asking you Jagoon, to tell us the age of Aisha, if you know it, by telling us exactly when she was born. Please use the landmark event in her family life and indeed the who of makka and Arab bloodline to inform us of this; She is from these community. This is the event of the beginning of Muammad's Islam; Her father was the first mature man to be become muslim. Was she born before this event of her father becoming Muslim, or was it after? If before what was her age when her father became muslim and how many years was Muhammad (AS) a prophet before Abu Bakr was a Muslim?

These are questions that will establish the truth of her age, in the year that she married the prophet and later consumate the marriage. As we know if the ahadith is truly from her, she was direct enough to provide enough information which included that there was sex involved as it was called consumation, the first sexual intercourse. But no one noticed that she did not say anything about the event, for an underage would have inked that she was underage and not ready and matured enough for sexual intercourse. Aisha (RA) our mother was not shy about ahadith that only wives could give. But this one about her age is an incomplete in details at best. And the chain is just one leading to her but never going to the prophet, and her father was not asked about her age, hence this is not an ahadith, for the definition of Ahadith is that it is the saying of Muhammad (AS) alone, or what he hears people say and be silent about it, not rebuking them which in its actuality indicate that he agrees and may actually be he saying it.

The ahadith of the age of Aisha (RA) our mother, I submit to you as I have submitted in earlier conversation is not an ahadith, for sure not a sound ahadith because it does not fit ahadith by definition, and the chain of narration id not sufficient for something that important and many other reasons. So unless you can provide for us the timeline that will put her age at 6, then my statement is going to stand, and if you wish I will give you proofs to support the different age that she was when she got married.

@Godson2009: « #190 on: Today at 01:23:00 PM »

@olabowale
AGAIN you have neglected to answer my main questions about your prophet mohammad regarding the controversies surrounding him and his religion,neither have you acknowledged the bare facts i have given you backed up with your own religious texts, instead you are resorting to your old tricks answering questions with conjectures, if jesus christ begged that GOD should pass the cup over him,that is to show you and also confirm that our father in heaven GOD,because of his love for us paid the ultimate sacrifice by sacrificing his only begotten son(begotten not in our own context of giving birth,but sort of his own companion,helper son e.t.c) not only to come to earth,but to experience everything pain,dissappointments,violence e.t.c that every normal human beings experience so that we would not have the excuse of saying he does not feel what we are feeling as an excuse in the last days, jesus was only being human by asking that the impending suffering be passed over his head, if you saw a vision that your side will be pierced by spears,you will be whipped e.t.c as long as you are human,human nature will kick in.

Whatever your discipline in school, if you give this type of analysis in any term paper, except to a person of the Christian cloth who will be easily seduced, you will have to get a fat Zero for silly effort! A God who created and gave you free will to choose right from wrong after giving you the consequential effect of your choice will not subject Himself to your level of humanity, abandoning His Lordship just that you do not blame him or have any excuse to even think about it. Why give you Free will to make choices, hopefully the right choice then? And lets just take sex outside marriage to illustrate: The people who do this know that it is bad, I think its in the pages of the Bible. But they make their choices and how did the unmarried Jesus explained this by his coming; for people not to marry, if you take his action and not the advise in the Bible? This is terrible on your part!

And what did you ask about Muhammad (AS) that the Muslims have not answered? If I did not, there are many who have the knowledge to give you better answer than me on Nairaland! List them for everyone to see and lets have the opportunity to rspond, and dont rush us.

nobody has ever said we have 2 or 3 gods, we have one GOD,jesus his son which i have explained his duties earlier on to you and the holy ghost who he sent as jesus replacement when he rose up, remember in the bible he said to the disciples that he will send them a messenger that will replce him?that is the holy ghost hence the reason why it is said GOD the father the son and the holy ghost, if we worshipped 3 GODS then we should be saying GOD 1,GOD2 AND GOD 3 OR SENIOR GOD AND 2 JUNIOR GODS RIGHT?

Just because you did not say it, your ways it already, which proofs your hypocracy! Jesus by your account is a full God. No? Then Ghost by your own account is a full God. No? And Jehovah/Yahweh whom Jesus called Eloi on the cross, while you claim He is your father is full God. No? When you count the number of full God(s) as presented, please let me know how many: 1 or 3?

And your explanation above is for babies, and we are grown in here!

why do you think GOD called himself the GOD of issac?and also that isaac was his beloved,
it is because isaac did what GOD later did with jesus christ,offered his only son as a sacrifice,

For starter, God (Oluwa in Yoruba Language, Allah in Arabic), is for all and not for Isaac alone. Afterall, He is God of Isaac's mother, his father Abraham, his older brother Ishmael, his step mother hagah. So you hypothesis does not make any sense. Finally, show me a process to indicate that Isaac was the intended slaughter and I will show you with full evidence that it was not Isaac but his older brother that was the intended slaughter.

Finally on this matter, God protected the child from being slaughtered and replaced him with a Ram, and if this is what God did and it is similar to what He did with Jesus, you have your answer, completely in agreement with what Islam says about te bouched up crucifixion; It did not happen just like the slaughter, because protected the persons and prevented the death occurring. Thanks to Allah Who has made your heart to reveal the truth about this matter. Now you cant say that you do not know that it was a trial run but it did not happen!