MZLady39:
So are you saying that the 10 commandments are no longer biding and that there is no specific day of rest for His people?

Yes

Hmmmm.......so in essence you are saying that it's okay to
1. Make graven images
2. Worship the images and idols
3. Be irreverent towards God's name
4. Keep any day holy
5. Disrespect one's mother & father
6. Kill whomever one wants to
7. Have anyone's husband or wife one wants to
8. Steal anything one wants
9. LIE and slander anyone one sees fit
10. Deeply desire someone else's belongings

petra1:


Yes

MZLady39:
Hmmmm.......so in essence you are saying that it's okay to
1. Make graven images
2. Worship the images and idols
3. Be irreverent towards God's name
4. Keep any day holy
5. Disrespect one's mother & father
6. Kill whomever one wants to
7. Have anyone's husband or wife one wants to
8. Steal anything one wants
9. LIE and slander anyone one sees fit
10. Deeply desire someone else's belongings

You're the one saying

petra1:


Christ fulfilled the sabbath.

Tell that to the Sabbatharians.

petra1:


Christ fulfilled the sabbath.

Hello sir, when you say Christ fulfilled the Sabbath, what is it that you mean—abolished?

A lot of people seems confused when they themselves say "Christ fulfilled this"... "Christ fulfilled that". The word "fulfilled" simply means satisfied, pleased etc. So when you say Christ fulfilled the Sabbath, you're simply saying that Christ kept the Sabbath—satisfied its requirement, not abolished. He didn't kept it in your stead that you may be free from it, but that you may know that the Sabbath law can be kept as He has shown you an example to follow (1 Peter 2:21).

Listen: "For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works" "There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God" (Hebrews 4:4, 9). Yes bro, there remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for us! And as you know that the Sabbath simply means rest, the Sabbath service simply mirrors the future millennial reign of Christ (Rev. 20:6), where He will grant lasting rest to His saints.

Besides, it makes no sense at all to say that Christ fulfilled the Sabbath (which according to you means that the Sabbath is no longer binding), which therefore means that He fulfilled some and left some unfulfilled (again, it doesn't make any sense). Christ simply kept all of the laws and left us an example to follow His steps, He never abolished any law except the Levitical sacrifices.

So sir, if you say the Sabbath has been abolished, you're simply arguing for the annulment of the whole Law.

PS: Some are too quick to point out Colossians 2:16-17 to mean the Sabbath is no more. Of course, it is only one of the many stumbling blocks they encountered in Paul's "hard to understand" writings, which some people twist to their destruction (2 Peter 3:16). This is because merely looking at verse 11 of same chapter, we see that Paul said Christians are circumcised by the Holy Spirit that the works of the flesh may be put off, and that circumcision is of value when you keep the Law (Romans 2:25). Again, we've also seen that the carnal mind cannot keep the commandments of God because he hates them (Romans 8:7). So here is the question: How can Paul say you can break the Sabbath law when he just said few verses after that you were circumcised to keep the law? Think about it. It is simply a case of misunderstanding what Paul is truly saying.

Goshen360:


Sin is defined as MISSING THE MARK.....which is a verb AND.........a NATURE......depending on the scripture you quoting. In other words, sin IS a verb and a noun.

You are misleading yourself.
This is What is God's definition of sin?
"Sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4. Answer: Sin is breaking God's Ten
Commandment law. And since the law of God is perfect ( Psalms 19:7), it covers every conceivable sin. It is impossible to commit a sin that is not condemned by at least one of God's Ten Commandments. The commandments cover "the whole duty of man." Ecclesiastes 12:13. Nothing is left out.

blueAgent:





I don't understand you are you saying the law has been abolished?

am saying the law was pointing and painting a picture of Jesus

Goshen360:


I understand....the law is a LEGAL system....it contains the 10 commandments, the ordinance, the sacrifices, etc....the whole LAW.......including the 10 commandments IS ABOLISHED under the new covenant.

Jesus never abolished the law.
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law. ..I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. ... Till
heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
Matthew 5:17, 18.
Answer: No, indeed! Jesus specifically asserted that He did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill (or keep) it. Instead of doing away with the law, Jesus magnified it ( Isaiah 42:21) as the perfect guide for right living. For example, Jesus pointed out that "thou shalt not kill" condemns anger "without a cause" ( Matthew 5:21, 22) and hatred (1 John 3:15), and that lust is adultery
(Matthew 5:27, 28). He says, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15.

analice107:

Thank you.
And the Part which was fulfilled has to do with the sacrificial laws, which concerns atonement for sins by shedding the blood of an animal in the place of Man's sins.

Jesus became that lamb. But what about the moral laws, do they also needs be fulfilled?


The only part of the law fulfilled, is the part that concerns sins

Perfect answer Bro.

Goshen360:


Jesus was still under the law and old covenant when he was teaching in the 4 gospels. Look carefully, you have to understand THE MINISTRY OF JESUS before he died to be able to rightly divide the word of truth.

Jesus didn't tell you to love God, he said love God with the WHOLE of your heart. Well, here's the problem...if I love God with the WHOLE of my heart, what is left for me to love my wife and others with?

Error.

petra1:

Yes

pls checkout this site for the correction to your comment.
www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4983/t/written-in-stone

GodsMopol:

am saying the law was pointing and painting a picture of Jesus

No the law was not all about Jesus. but about God's Holyness and righteouness.

ayoku777:
Take some time to read this to the end. I wrote this on another thread but I decided to paste it here to help bring this conflict between the Law and the Spirit to perspective.

https://www.nairaland.com/2775627/purpose-law



Shalom

Error.

Kindly vist this site.

www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4983/t/written-in-stone

Goshen360:


The Holy Spirit works through your MIND to understand what's written and what's written has to be STUDIED to be understood. You continue to read into the scriptures thinking it's the revealed word. Revealed word is a product of STUDY PLUS SPIRIT OF GOD.

2. You keep saying 1 John 3:4 defined sin BUT:

a, what of Romans 14 v 23

b, Romans 4 v 15 and 5 v 13.....what happens when you don't have a given law? Will it still be said you sinned and where there's no law, what guides you?

Please stop preaching Heresy..

petra1:
I agree with the op to an extent . Christ came to fulfill the law in us by giving us a new law which is nature in us and by this nature we are able to fulfill the righteousness of God. The law was the law of God. It contained principles of Gods kingdom .

Romans 7:12
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Romans 7:14
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Without the knowledge of the law . You can't know what sin is.

Romans 7:7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

It's not every sin that is mentioned in the epistles. E.g Marrying your sister and mother .

The problem with the law was that it couldn't give man righteousness. And the reason was because of man's fallen state . Man lack the ability to do righteousness.

Romans 7:20-21
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Romans 7:10-12
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Romans 7:13
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful

So it's clear here that the issue is not the law but man's fallen nature .

We are not under the law to be justified by it but The law contain some principles that are eternal in the kingdom of God. Christ fulfill the righteousness by being our substitute and ransom for sin. But the moral principles of the law are kingdom principle .

Remember the Bible the early church had was not Romans and Galatians it was the law they were studying


James 1:22 (KJV Strong's)
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Romans 2:13
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Romans 7:10-12
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.


And that's why you could find Paul quoting the law in many of his epistles like the Ephesians

Ephesians 6:2-3
2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

But that by no means. Put us under the law to be justified by it . A man that seek to be justified by the law is fallen from grace . The law is good as long as it is used the right way . To study and to know Gods mind and principles . And also a reference point

Excellent .

In summary. Can anyone be saved by keeping the law?
"By the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be
justified in his sight." Romans 3:20. "For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8, 9.
Answer: No! The answer is too plain to miss. No one can be saved by keeping the law. Salvation comes only through grace, as a free gift from Jesus Christ, and we receive this gift by faith, not by works. The law serves only as a mirror to point out sin in our lives. Cleansing and forgiveness from that sin come only through Christ. Our own standards are never safe. I cannot know whether I am a sinner unless I look carefully into the perfect standard, God's law-mirror.

ayoku777:


That's not true, the ten commandments too were done away with.

Read this;

2Cor 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

Question! Which part of the law was written and engraved in stones? The ceremonial laws or the ten commandments? Of course, it's the ten commandments.

So according to this scripture, the ten commandments is the ministration of death and it was to be done away with. And it has been done away with.

2Cor 3:11 For if THAT WHICH IS DONE AWAY was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

The ministration of death, written and engraved in stones (the ten commandments) has been done away with -according to the scriptures.

This scripture should be enough. But for emphasis let me use the witness of another scripture.

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

According to these scriptures, we are dead to the law and we delivered from the law.

Question! Which law are we dead to and delivered from? The ceremonial laws or the ten commandments? Which law was the writer referring to?

The next verse (verse 7) answers that question.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

The law that the writer is talking about in this chapter is the law under which we have "Thou shalt not covet."

Under which law do we have "Thou shalt not covet."? Under the ceremonial laws or the ten commandments? Of course, the ten commandments.

So according to the scriptures again, the laws we are now dead to and no more under includes the ten commandments. Jesus delivered us from both ceremonial and the ten.

Infact when the scriptures talk about the Law under the new covenant, it is referring to both the ceremonial laws and the ten commandments.

Eph 2:15 Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

ISV puts it more explicitly;

Eph 2:15 He rendered the Law inoperative, ALONG WITH ITS COMMANDMENTS AND REGULATIONS, thus creating in himself one new humanity from the two, thereby making peace,

You see. Both the ceremonial laws and the ten commandments were done away with.

If you are still having difficulty grasping the conflict between the Law and the Spirit; read the post I made earlier on this thread or just click this link -

https://www.nairaland.com/2775627/purpose-law

Shalom

Doesn't 2 Corinthians 3:7 teach that the law
written and engraved in stone "was to be done
away"?
No. The passage says that the "glory" of Moses'
ministration of the law was to be done away, but not the law. Read the whole passage of 2
Corinthians 3:3-9 again, carefully. The subject is not the doing away with the law or its
establishment, but rather, the change of the
location of the law from "tables of stone" to the "tables of the heart." Under Moses' ministration the law was on stones. Under the Holy Spirit's ministration, through Christ, the law is written upon the heart (Hebrews 8:10). A rule posted on a school bulletin board becomes effective only when it enters a student's heart. Christ's ministration of the law is effective because He transfers the law to the heart of the Christian. Then keeping the law becomes a delight and a joyful way of living because the Christian has true love for both God and man.
6. Romans 10:4 says that "Christ is the end of
the law." So it has ended, hasn't it?
"End" in this verse means purpose or object, as it does in James 5:11. The meaning is clear. To lead men to Christ--where they find righteousness--is the goal, purpose, or end of the law.

MuttleyLaff:
Now here are the questions for you
#1 What is God? What's your response going to be? Spirit? No or Yes?
#2 What then will His law be? What's your response going to be? The law of the Spirit? No or Yes?
#3 What has the ''The law of the Spirit'' set us free from ? What's your response going to be? The law of sin and death? No or Yes?
#4 What are some examples of the ''The law of sin and death''? What's your response going to be? The Ten commandments? No or Yes?

Now, lets go up a gear a bit or step a bit in deeper waters
# 5 What is the law of gravity, what does it do and/or what is it all about?
#6 What is the law of aerodynamics, what does it do and/or what is it all about?
#7 Does the law of gravity produce any effect whilst the law of aerodynamics is being made use of?
What's your response going to be? No or Yes?

But now we are delivered from the law,
that being dead wherein we were held;
that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter
- Romans 7:6 KJV

But now we have been exempted from The Written Law,
and we are dead to that which had controlled us,
so that we shall serve from now on in the newness of The Spirit and not in the Old Order Scriptures
- Romans 7:6 Aramaic Bible in Plain English

We dont want a long post,
so wont bother going into the implication of the House of Israel in this matter
except than say: think for a moment, why wasnt a mention of the House of Judah in all of that too

We being released from the law, doesnt mean, The law of the Spirit has given us a licence to sin

Most can see that the gist of Romans 7 was talking about ''release from the law''
but you have cherry plucked Romans 7:7 out of from it
and turned the gist in Romans 7 to mean the opposite. Chai, there is God ooo
Brother, please think deeply about the reproduced Romans 7:6 above

But when you are directed by the Spirit, you are not under obligation to the law of Moses
- Galatians 5:18

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ
- John 1:17

The Spirit will ALWAYS and ONLY direct you, to do the right thing
and there, at your disposal are GRACE and TRUTH to help you with doing just that (i.e. the right thing)

My answer to all your questions is found here.

www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4983/t/written-in-stone

Yes...that is true to an extant. However, I do not believe that the 10 commandments have been abolished. I was simply asking you to kindly clarify what you meant by your words.

petra1:


You're the one saying

Good explanation Sir Splinz.

Splinz:


Hello sir, when you say Christ fulfilled the Sabbath, what is it that you mean—abolished?

A lot of people seems confused when they themselves say "Christ fulfilled this"... "Christ fulfilled that". The word "fulfilled" simply means satisfied, pleased etc. So when you say Christ fulfilled the Sabbath, you're simply saying that Christ kept the Sabbath—satisfied its requirement, not abolished. He didn't kept it in your stead that you may be free from it, but that you may know that the Sabbath law can be kept as He has shown you an example to follow (1 Peter 2:21).

Listen: "For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works" "There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God" (Hebrews 4:4, 9). Yes bro, there remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for us! And as you know that the Sabbath simply means rest, the Sabbath service simply mirrors the future millennial reign of Christ (Rev. 20:6), where He will grant lasting rest to His saints.

Besides, it makes no sense at all to say that Christ fulfilled the Sabbath (which according to you means that the Sabbath is no longer binding), which therefore means that He fulfilled some and left some unfulfilled (again, it doesn't make any sense). Christ simply kept all of the laws and left us an example to follow His steps, He never abolished any law except the Levitical sacrifices.

So sir, if you say the Sabbath has been abolished, you're simply arguing for the annulment of the whole Law.

PS: Some are too quick to point out Colossians 2:16-17 to mean the Sabbath is no more. Of course, it is only one of the many stumbling blocks they encountered in Paul's "hard to understand" writings, which some people twist to their destruction (2 Peter 3:16). This is because merely looking at verse 11 of same chapter, we see that Paul said Christians are circumcised by the Holy Spirit that the works of the flesh may be put off, and that circumcision is of value when you keep the Law (Romans 2:25). Again, we've also seen that the carnal mind cannot keep the commandments of God because he hates them (Romans 8:7). So here is the question: How can Paul say you can break the Sabbath law when he just said few verses after that you were circumcised to keep the law? Think about it. It is simply a case of misunderstanding what Paul is truly saying.

blueAgent:



Doesn't 2 Corinthians 3:7 teach that the law
written and engraved in stone "was to be done
away"?
No. The passage says that the "glory" of Moses'
ministration of the law was to be done away, but not the law. Read the whole passage of 2
Corinthians 3:3-9 again, carefully. The subject is not the doing away with the law or its
establishment, but rather, the change of the
location of the law from "tables of stone" to the "tables of the heart." Under Moses' ministration the law was on stones. Under the Holy Spirit's ministration, through Christ, the law is written upon the heart (Hebrews 8:10). A rule posted on a school bulletin board becomes effective only when it enters a student's heart. Christ's ministration of the law is effective because He transfers the law to the heart of the Christian. Then keeping the law becomes a delight and a joyful way of living because the Christian has true love for both God and man.
6. Romans 10:4 says that "Christ is the end of
the law." So it has ended, hasn't it?
"End" in this verse means purpose or object, as it does in James 5:11. The meaning is clear. To lead men to Christ--where they find righteousness--is the goal, purpose, or end of the law.

I don't know whether you made a honest mistake with your interpretation of that Romans 10:4 or you deliberately twisted it's meaning to suit what you want to say.

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

The greek word translated "end" in that verse is the word /telos/ - and it means "Termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be, the end of some act or state, that by which a thing is finished, it's close."

It doesn't mean "goal or purpose" as you tried to make it mean.

Let me show you other places in scripture where telos was also used and you will see the consistency in it's scriptural usage.

Luke 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no END (telos).

Does this verse say the kingdom of Christ shall have no goal and purpose? Or it shall have no termination or cessation?

Another verse where telos was used;

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the END (telos) come.

Does telos in this verse mean the goal or purpose of the age shall come? Or the close or cessation of the age shall come?

Telos means termination, cessation or close of something.

Romans 10:4 Means Jesus is the termination, cessation and end of the law.

I can go on and on and quote many more verses, but my thumbs are beginning to ache me, and besides all the plenty verses I've used to make my arguments have not changed anything; which tells me this is a heart issue for you, not that you haven't seen enough verses to change your mind.

I mean, how can anyone in good conscience read a verse like Ephesians 2:15 and still argue that the law and the ten commandments have not been abolished.

Eph 2:15 Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Eph 2:15 HE RENDERED THE LAW INOPERATIVE, ALONG WITH ITS COMMANDMENTS and regulations, thus creating in himself one new humanity from the two, thereby making peace,

How can this verse mean any other thing other than the obvious interpretation? Hmmm

My thumbs are aching abeg.

Shalom.

blueAgent:





Excellent .

In summary. Can anyone be saved by keeping the law?
"By the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be
justified in his sight." Romans 3:20. "For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8, 9.
Answer: No! The answer is too plain to miss. No one can be saved by keeping the law. Salvation comes only through grace, as a free gift from Jesus Christ, and we receive this gift by faith, not by works. The law serves only as a mirror to point out sin in our lives. Cleansing and forgiveness from that sin come only through Christ. Our own standards are never safe. I cannot know whether I am a sinner unless I look carefully into the perfect standard, God's law-mirror.

Exactly

blueAgent:
My answer to all your questions is found here.

amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4983/t/written-in-stone

Express the responses yourself
and articulate your answers to each of questions in your own words without needing to refer me to someone's else website for your relief

petra1:


Did Jesus fulfill . "Thou shall have no other God? It's still your responsibility to kee away from idol. If he did how did he do it.

Jesus fulfilled the whole law.

There are at least two ways in which Jesus fulfilled d law. ref aquinas.

The New Law is compared to the Old as the perfect to the imperfect. Now everything perfect fulfils that which is lacking in the imperfect. And accordingly the New Law fulfils the Old by supplying that which was lacking in the Old Law. Now the end of every law is to make men righteous and virtuous and consequently the end of the Old Law was the justification of men. The Law, however, could not accomplish this: but foreshadowed it by certain ceremonial actions, and promised it in words. And in this respect, the New Law fulfils the Old by justifying men through the power of Christ's Deathg This is what the Apostle says (Romans 8:3-4): "What the Law could not do . . . God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh.

This is what the Apostle says (Romans 8:3-4): "What the Law could not do . . . God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh . . . hath condemned sin in the flesh, that the justification of the Law might be fulfilled in us." And in this respect, the New Law gives what the Old Law promised.

So Jesus fulfill the law by giving us the new law of grace, the law of the spirit who pours love in our heart and giving us what the old law promised but couldnt do, i.e salvation.

Ubenedictus:
This is what the Apostle says (Romans 8:3-4): "What the Law could not do . . . God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh . . . hath condemned sin in the flesh, that the justification of the Law might be fulfilled in us." And in this respect, the New Law gives what the Old Law promised.

So Jesus fulfill the law by giving us the new law of grace, the law of the spirit who pours love in our heart and giving us what the old law promised but couldnt do, i.e salvation.

You have no reason to break GOD's moral Law(the 10 Commandments), or to teach others to do so, except you want to lead them into eternal destruction.

"Fear GOD and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man." Eccl. 12:13

"Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of GOD." 1 Cor.7:19

See also Matt. 5:17-19. There Jesus condemned teaching others to disobey GOD's holy Law, the 10 Commandments.

ayoku777:

I mean, how can anyone in good conscience read a verse like Ephesians 2:15 and still argue that the law and the ten commandments have not been abolished.

Eph 2:15 Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Eph 2:15 HE RENDERED THE LAW INOPERATIVE, ALONG WITH ITS COMMANDMENTS and regulations, thus creating in himself one new humanity from the two, thereby making peace,

How can this verse mean any other thing other than the obvious interpretation? Hmmm

So you think Ephesians 2:15 abolishes the Law? Very well then, lets see if it is so.

Paul, addressing the Ephesians congregation said that, God has made them alive who were dead because of their trespasses and sins (verse 1), in which they once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience (verse 2). He went further in saying that all of us once lived in sins, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and mind, and we were naturally children of wrath like the rest of mankind (verse 3). But God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ, and that by grace we have been saved (verse 5). Let me digress from here.

Yes of course, Christians are saved by grace and not by the keeping of any law. Now, it is pertinent for you to understand the purpose of the Law. And that is, the Law serves as a mirror—compass—pointer, to show you what is sin (Romans 7:7). It doesn't end there, the Law also is your standard in living a holy, righteous and good life (Romans 7:12). Or wasn't it for this standard that Jesus died for?

Now, why the Law can't save anyone. The Bible says "For the wages—penalty of sin—breaking the law is death" (Romans 6:23). Lets say for instance, a kidnapper is caught in Lagos State, and there's a law in place that stipulate death penalty for the crime. In such a case, is it the law that is at fault or the criminal? (Romans 7:7).

So then, the Law either keeps you when you keep it or breaks you when you break it! It is simple, just like the law of gravity. If you jump from a three storey building, what do you think will happen to you? Will you blame the law of gravity for whatever happened to you?

Man, having broken the Law and its penalty automatically sets in, couldn't save his life except to pay for the penalty which is eternal dead. Yes, the law couldn't save him either because the Law is simply paying him his wages—what he earns. Bro, it is simply a case of reaping what you sowed! Again, is the law then evil?

And then Jesus came in, and set aside the penalty for sin. Yes, it was this "legal indebtedness—penalty" that was "nailed to the cross" (Colossians 2:14) Please note, He didn't saved man from the Law but from his sins and penalty! So He offered eternal life to those who believed in Him as their savior, because nobody or law could ever save man from death. Again, note also that this penalty still stands for those who continue in sins, and this is an unmistakably proof that the Law is still binding and very much alive! Now you know why grace is called an unmerited favor and a gift, "not because of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:9).

And now back to Ephesian 2.

Verse 10 says we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works which God has always wanted us to walk in them (Remember that the Law is also called "good" [Romans 7:12]). Paul went on to tell these Ephesians brethren to remember that at one time, they were gentiles in the flesh called the uncircumcision by what is called the circumcision [the Israelites], circumcised in the flesh by hands (verse 11). He charged them to remember that they were at that time [when they were still uncircumcised] separated from Christ and the commonwealth of Israel, strangers to the covenant of promise, and having no hope and without God in the world (verse 12).

But now, all of that is over because Christ has brought us near through His blood. He is now our peace, and has made us one [we are now like the Israelites, circumcised and sharing in common what was originally for the physically descendant of Israel], having broken down the dividing wall of hostility (verses 13 & 14). And what does the embolden statement mean? Simple. I know you're thinking that it is the Law, but no. The hostility here is rather 1. The hatred that carnal—uncircumcised people have for God and His Law (Romans 8:6-7) which ultimately lead to 2. Death—the penalty for sin.

And finally verse 15. "by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace". Here is what I think of the bold, and I wouldn't be dogmatic about it, but believed it is in complete harmony with other Scriptural truths so far. The law of commandments abolished by Christ is the penalty for breaking the Law, while the ordinances abolished here is circumcision according to the flesh, since the uncircumcised, whether those that were not circumcised according to the flesh in the Old Testament or those not circumcised in the Spirit today, are hostile to God and His Law, which amounts to death!

Verse 16 says "And might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby bringing the hostility to an end". What is the enmity between God and man? What separates man from God—sin or the Law? Isaiah answered: "But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God" (Isaiah 59:2). So you see, what brought about the separation and the need for reconciliation wasn't the Law but sin!

I don't think it can be better explain than I've done.

Goshen360:


Tell that to the Sabbatharians.

Man of God! top of d day to you, You are blessed.

ayoku777:


I don't know whether you made a honest mistake with your interpretation of that Romans 10:4 or you deliberately twisted it's meaning to suit what you want to say.

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

The greek word translated "end" in that verse is the word /telos/ - and it means "Termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be, the end of some act or state, that by which a thing is finished, it's close."

It doesn't mean "goal or purpose" as you tried to make it mean.

Let me show you other places in scripture where telos was also used and you will see the consistency in it's scriptural usage.

Luke 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no END (telos).

Does this verse say the kingdom of Christ shall have no goal and purpose? Or it shall have no termination or cessation?

Another verse where telos was used;

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the END (telos) come.

Does telos in this verse mean the goal or purpose of the age shall come? Or the close or cessation of the age shall come?

Telos means termination, cessation or close of something.

Romans 10:4 Means Jesus is the termination, cessation and end of the law.

I can go on and on and quote many more verses, but my thumbs are beginning to ache me, and besides all the plenty verses I've used to make my arguments have not changed anything; which tells me this is a heart issue for you, not that you haven't seen enough verses to change your mind.

I mean, how can anyone in good conscience read a verse like Ephesians 2:15 and still argue that the law and the ten commandments have not been abolished.

Eph 2:15 Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Eph 2:15 HE RENDERED THE LAW INOPERATIVE, ALONG WITH ITS COMMANDMENTS and regulations, thus creating in himself one new humanity from the two, thereby making peace,

How can this verse mean any other thing other than the obvious interpretation? Hmmm

My thumbs are aching abeg.

Shalom.

You just pick Bible verses and interprete them out of context. paul told us that we should rightly divide the word of God.

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a
workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

which means we most rationalize every part of the Bible without discarding any part.

Now based on this approach. are we saying Apostle james was insane when he said we will be judged by the Law or Whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10.

"So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be
judged by the law of liberty." James 2:12.

or paul who said in Romans 6:14, 15. "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31.all this are in the new testament.

Paul. also said we will be judged by the Law.

Which law is Paul and James refering to? or you just ingnore that.

Galatians 3:13 says we are redeemed from
the curse of the law. Can you explain this?

The curse of the law is death (Romans 6:23).
Christ tasted "death for every man." Hebrews 2:9. Thus He redeemed all from the curse of the law (death) and in its place provided eternal life.

Romans 10:4 says that "Christ is the end of
the law." So it has ended, hasn't it?

"End" in this verse means purpose or object, as it does in James 5:11. The meaning is clear. To lead men to Christ--where they find righteousness--is the goal, purpose, or end of the law. Simple.

ayoku777:


I don't know whether you made a honest mistake with your interpretation of that Romans 10:4 or you deliberately twisted it's meaning to suit what you want to say.

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

The greek word translated "end" in that verse is the word /telos/ - and it means "Termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be, the end of some act or state, that by which a thing is finished, it's close."

It doesn't mean "goal or purpose" as you tried to make it mean.

Let me show you other places in scripture where telos was also used and you will see the consistency in it's scriptural usage.

Luke 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no END (telos).

Does this verse say the kingdom of Christ shall have no goal and purpose? Or it shall have no termination or cessation?

Another verse where telos was used;

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the END (telos) come.

Does telos in this verse mean the goal or purpose of the age shall come? Or the close or cessation of the age shall come?

Telos means termination, cessation or close of something.

Romans 10:4 Means Jesus is the termination, cessation and end of the law.

I can go on and on and quote many more verses, but my thumbs are beginning to ache me, and besides all the plenty verses I've used to make my arguments have not changed anything; which tells me this is a heart issue for you, not that you haven't seen enough verses to change your mind.

I mean, how can anyone in good conscience read a verse like Ephesians 2:15 and still argue that the law and the ten commandments have not been abolished.

Eph 2:15 Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Eph 2:15 HE RENDERED THE LAW INOPERATIVE, ALONG WITH ITS COMMANDMENTS and regulations, thus creating in himself one new humanity from the two, thereby making peace,

How can this verse mean any other thing other than the obvious interpretation? Hmmm

My thumbs are aching abeg.

Shalom.

The First Problem with Christains is that they understand the Bible from their pastors view instead of reading the Bible for themselves.

You Like most Christains mistake God's Law (10 Commandments)with Laws of Moses. here is proof of their differences.


Are God's law and Moses' law the same?
Answer: No, they are not the same. Study the
following notes and comparison carefully.
Note: Moses' law was the temporary, ceremonial
law of the Old Testament. It regulated the
priesthood, sacrifices, rituals, meat and drink
offerings, etc., all of which foreshadowed the
cross. This law was added "till the seed should
come," and that seed was Christ ( Galatians 3:16, 19). The ritual and ceremony of Moses' law pointed forward to Christ's sacrifice. When He died, this law came to an end, but the Ten Commandments (God's law) "stand fast for ever and ever." Psalms 111:8. That there are two laws is made crystal clear in Daniel 9:10, 11. Special Note: Please note that God's law has existed at least as long as sin has existed. The Bible says, "Where no law is, there is no transgression [or sin]." Romans 4:15. So God's Ten Commandment law existed from the beginning. Men broke that law (sinned, 1 John 3:4). Because of sin (or breaking God's law),

Moses' law was given (or "added"Galatians 3:16,19) till Christ should come and die. Two separate laws are involved: God's law and Moses' law.

MOSES' LAW

GOD'S LAW

Called "the law of Moses" (Luke 2:22)
.
Called "the law of the Lord" (Isaiah
5:24).

Called "law ... contained in
ordinances" ( Ephesians 2:15).

Called "the royal law" (James 2:.

Written by Moses in a book (2
Chronicles 35:12).

Written by God on stone (Exodus
31:18 32:16).

Placed in the side of the ark
( Deuteronomy 31:26).

Placed inside the ark (Exodus 40:20).

Ended at the cross (Ephesians 2:15).

Will stand forever (Luke 16:17).

Added because of sin (Galatians
3:19).

Points out sin (Romans 7:7 3:20).

Contrary to us, against us
( Colossians 2:14).

Not grievous (1 John 5:3).

Judges no one (Colossians 2:14-16).

Judges all people (James 2:10-12).

Carnal (Hebrews 7:16).

Spiritual (Romans 7:14).

Made nothing perfect (Hebrews 7:19).

Perfect (Psalms 19:7).

ayoku777:


I don't know whether you made a honest mistake with your interpretation of that Romans 10:4 or you deliberately twisted it's meaning to suit what you want to say.

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

The greek word translated "end" in that verse is the word /telos/ - and it means "Termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be, the end of some act or state, that by which a thing is finished, it's close."

It doesn't mean "goal or purpose" as you tried to make it mean.

Let me show you other places in scripture where telos was also used and you will see the consistency in it's scriptural usage.

Luke 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no END (telos).

Does this verse say the kingdom of Christ shall have no goal and purpose? Or it shall have no termination or cessation?

Another verse where telos was used;

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the END (telos) come.

Does telos in this verse mean the goal or purpose of the age shall come? Or the close or cessation of the age shall come?

Telos means termination, cessation or close of something.

Romans 10:4 Means Jesus is the termination, cessation and end of the law.

I can go on and on and quote many more verses, but my thumbs are beginning to ache me, and besides all the plenty verses I've used to make my arguments have not changed anything; which tells me this is a heart issue for you, not that you haven't seen enough verses to change your mind.

I mean, how can anyone in good conscience read a verse like Ephesians 2:15 and still argue that the law and the ten commandments have not been abolished.

Eph 2:15 Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Eph 2:15 HE RENDERED THE LAW INOPERATIVE, ALONG WITH ITS COMMANDMENTS and regulations, thus creating in himself one new humanity from the two, thereby making peace,

How can this verse mean any other thing other than the obvious interpretation? Hmmm

My thumbs are aching abeg.

Shalom.

Don't Colossians 2:14-17 and Ephesians 2:15
teach that God's law ended at the cross?

No, these passages both refer to the law
containing "ordinances," or Moses' law, which
was a ceremonial law governing the sacrificial
system and the priesthood. All of this ceremony and ritual foreshadowed the cross and ended at Christ's death, as God had intended. Moses' law was added till the "seed should come," and that "seed ... is Christ." Galatians 3:19, 16. God's law could not be involved here, for Paul spoke of it as holy, just, and good many years after the cross ( Romans 7:7, 12).

ayoku777:



I asked you a simple question to reconcile three verses, you returned the question to me. That is a classic deflective method. Simply saying you don't know would have sufficed.

I understand your dilemma though. You are being shown many scriptures that show that the ten commandments have been abolished and done away with. Scriptures so direct and explicit, there is no way to give them another interpretation.

All you could do was quote another verse that you think contradicts the ones you've been shown.

Let me explain that verse for you;

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Paul is asking that, do we now void or make useless the law because of faith? He said no, we establish the law.

Question now is, How do we establish what is clearly stated in scripture that Christ has abolished and done away with?

Simple! By allowing the law to do what it was given to do in the first place. And what is that?

The law is the knowledge of sin and the revelation of guilt.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The purpose of the law was to shut men up, bring them to the end of their self-righteousness, give them a knowledge of their sin and their need for a Savior and then introduce them to God's Savior Jesus Christ.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

This means that the way the law is establish is not by keeping it but by using it to give unbelievers the knowledge of their sin and their need for a Savior in Jesus Christ.

Meaning the law is indeed not useless or void, but it is not for the believer in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

1Tim1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man,

So that is how we establish the law, when it is used to give unbelievers the knowledge of sin and the revelation of their guilt and their need for a Savior in Jesus.

But to the new creation, the ten commandments have been abolished and done away with by Christ.

Then the other verse you quoted;

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

You said this verse proves that christians are commandments keepers.

Ofcourse, Christians are commandment keepers.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Question is which commandment? It is not the ten commandments, because according to the scriptures, the ten commandments have been abolished and done away with by Christ.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

The commandment the new creation keeps is the Love commandment not the ten commandments. The love commandment that is kept by being filled and led of the Spirit.

So none of the scriptures you're arguing with means or implies the ten commandments have not been abolished or should still be kept by believers. The word of God is one and without contradictions.

Shalom

Stoo confusing yourself what Christ abolished was the laws of Moses not God's ten commandements.

The First Problem with Christains is that they
understand the Bible from their pastors view
instead of reading the Bible for themselves.
You Like most Christains mistake God's Law (10
Commandments)with Laws of Moses. here is
proof of their differences.
Are God's law and Moses' law the same?
Answer: No, they are not the same. Study the
following notes and comparison carefully.
Note: Moses' law was the temporary, ceremonial
law of the Old Testament. It regulated the
priesthood, sacrifices, rituals, meat and drink
offerings, etc., all of which foreshadowed the
cross. This law was added "till the seed should
come," and that seed was Christ ( Galatians 3:16,
19). The ritual and ceremony of Moses' law
pointed forward to Christ's sacrifice. When He
died, this law came to an end, but the Ten
Commandments (God's law) "stand fast for ever
and ever." Psalms 111:8. That there are two laws
is made crystal clear in Daniel 9:10, 11. Special
Note: Please note that God's law has existed at
least as long as sin has existed. The Bible says,
"Where no law is, there is no transgression [or
sin]." Romans 4:15. So God's Ten Commandment
law existed from the beginning. Men broke that
law (sinned, 1 John 3:4). Because of sin (or
breaking God's law),
Moses' law was given (or "added"Galatians
3:16,19) till Christ should come and die. Two
separate laws are involved: God's law and Moses'
law.
MOSES' LAW
GOD'S LAW
Called "the law of Moses" (Luke 2:22)
.
Called "the law of the Lord" (Isaiah
5:24).
Called "law ... contained in
ordinances" ( Ephesians 2:15).
Called "the royal law" (James 2: .
Written by Moses in a book (2
Chronicles 35:12).
Written by God on stone (Exodus
31:18 32:16).
Placed in the side of the ark
( Deuteronomy 31:26).
Placed inside the ark (Exodus 40:20).
Ended at the cross (Ephesians 2:15).
Will stand forever (Luke 16:17).
Added because of sin (Galatians
3:19).
Points out sin (Romans 7:7 3:20).
Contrary to us, against us
( Colossians 2:14).
Not grievous (1 John 5:3).
Judges no one (Colossians 2:14-16).
Judges all people (James 2:10-12).
Carnal (Hebrews 7:16).
Spiritual (Romans 7:14).
Made nothing perfect (Hebrews 7:19).
Perfect (Psalms 19:7).