Zodiac61:

I already support a few. One more will not hurt me.

Nice one  that means you are already a believer in the teachings of christ all you need is to take a step further and accept his gospel.

I'd rather assist someone in need than give the money to a church, i think the church is already rich enough.

i give to charity and try to help people out whenever i can, to me that is my tithe paying.

My friend had already used his 90% on his budget living his 10% till the weekend when we meet and expected md to advice him.

TRUTH is indeed catching up with FALSEHOOD.

To all of you who resisted "THE DEVIL" on this thread, i say: it will forever be well with you.

Amen

Does ALIYU DANGOTE pays tithe,i want to know because he is the richest man in nigeria today. Pls fellow members let me know so as to know if tithing will make you rich.

Kenny888
This your friend spent up 90% of his income and was still with his 10% planning to give it in church? Sounds unbelievable to me. This your friend looks irresponsible from his actions, would say he is?

@Image123:

His friend is not irresponsible, just lacking knowledge. Fear made him a slave to the point where he would keep that portion of his income even if his mother or daughter needed it to save their lives. Where he went wrong was in listening to another person intepret God's Word to him rather than read it and get the message himself.

He was "dying because of lack of knowledge"

Nobody has responded to my post. I want to know if ALIYU DANGOTE,the richest man in nigeria today pays tithe?

@Poster, I have a question for you. How come your friend's tithe, which is what he should part with first from his earnings to honour God, is what he now wants to use to assist a friend? So you mean he spent the 90% on his budget and just has his tithe left for you to advise him on what to use it for - whether to give it to God or take your advice? He actually planned to give the 10% as tithe and because his friend asked for assistance, he would rather use the 10% for his friend rather than touch the 90% he budgeted for himself?  How does that sound to you?
Or this is just another avenue to ridicle the body of Christ alongside some others?
If he had to pay may be his school fees or some very pressing need of his, you will not ofcourse table it here saying
'Assisting a friend or pay school fees'. I guess you will know the answer to that.
This tithe thing has generated a lot of issues here especially for people who do not understand what it's all about or have just made up their minds to persecute the body of Christ because of this.
Just tell him to let God lead him. If you seek for answers in His word you will get it.
As per all those spending all their time and energy ridiculing pastors, whether fake or real, I must say you are really jobless.
Most of them never even spend time on means to win souls but anything on tithe/offering, they are on it like hawks.
Just consider that we will give account of every idle word. We should edify the body of Christ not tear it to shreds.
Remember, whether perfect or imperfect, it's Christ's bride.

@snowwy you are already sounding like one the pastors. You guys are never straight forward,you always make people to feel guilty for no wrong committed at all so that you can use that as an oppurtunity to brain wash them into drop every thing on them. God's judgement will surely starts from the church.

@snowwy
Apart from the fact that it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt on this forum that tithing is not required of christians by God, Jesus already addressed religious frauds like this in matthew 15:

Matthew 15:3-9:

3 Jesus replied, “And why do you, by your traditions, violate the direct commandments of God? 4 For instance, God says, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ 5 But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ 6 In this way, you say they don’t need to honor their parents. And so you cancel the word of God for the sake of your own tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote,
8 ‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9 Their worship is a farce,
for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God

@  ajokeakin
Its the All -Knowing God that will be the judge right? Right!

@KunleOshob
You have proven beyond your resoning please.
If you assume that God who vehemently commanded this in Malachi 3 and Jesus who said tithing should not be left undone in Matthew 23:23 is now a man-made commandment then thats your resoning.
Also please confirm to me that Jesus was talking about tithe in Matt 15:5. You still have 90% left to help your parents don't you?
Let us seek God purpose for our lives and also his direction and wisdom in all we do in life.
We should seek to be perfect in our words, actions and thoughts.
There are other weightier aspects we need to dwell on.
Cheers!

@snowwy
Do you know how God defined tithes? or how God said it should be practised as opposed to the twisted version of itbeing preached today to deceive believers? If you don't read deuteronomy 14:22-29, it would help you to understand tithing better.

@KunleOshob
So are you saying that tithing is not required of christians by God or you have issues with the twisted version its being preached today to deceive believers?
If tithing is scriptural then practice it.
There are lots of things that have been twisted and abused in the world today, however, you have the duty to practice it the way the scripture preaches it. So are you practising tithing the way Deuteronomy 14:22-29 says you should then?
Going by that scripture, Have you set aside a tenth of your produce (what do you produce pls?) and eaten it in his presence (that is a place- since He is talking about distance -'if the place is too distant'). And who are the Levites mentioned that you should not neglect?

Snowwy probably ain't got no job to be twisting the Scriptures the way she seems to on this thread, Are you a Levite Snowwy? What has Malachi 3 (Gospel p*i*m*p*s love this Chapter) got to do with today's Christian? When Jesus was admonishing the Pharisees for not leaving one undone, has he been crucified then? Jesus paid our debt on the cross, there are thousands of ways to help one another and tithe is not one of them, how come Jesus didn't mention tithes in Matthew 25? Did you see " I was broke, you gave me tithe"? You can't bribe your way into heaven my dear, study your Bible a little more, there seem to be lots you don't understand yet.

@ogajim,
Do state where it was i twisted scriptures.
Jesus died and paid our debts. So are you now saying tithes are debts?
Are you also saying what Jesus said before He was crucified should not be followed? Sorry I do not understand you.
Can you please enlighten me on other things Jesus preached before his death that Christians are not following today?
Matt. 23:23 said practice tithe and also the more important matters of justice, mercy and faithfulness (Is Matt 25:31-45 not also captured in this - having mercy). So how does having mercy disturb paying tithes.
I didn't say tithing is a way to bribe God, where did you get that from? Have you read my posts?
Let's study our bibles and understand it based on God's inspiration and not what seems convenient for us or according to our human logic.

1 Corinthians 3:19 - "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, "He is THE ONE WHO CATCHES THE WISE IN THEIR CRAFTINESS"

Peace.

Snowwy, DUDE!

The malachi 3 that's been used over and over to fleece the flock has been reviewed thoroughly here on NL and found to be a fraudulent application in most of today's Churches as it was specifically directed at the Levites who took care of everything from Temple maintenance to administration for the Israelites.
When Malachi don't do the job, you guys retort to Abram's tithe to Melchizedek, etc enough already. God doesn't live in MAN MADE TEMPLES (remember that dude!)

The law was still in effect when Jesus made the comments in Matthew 23:23 and I wonder why you continue with it after he already fulfilled the LAW.

It is no biggy for me if I was to pay, today is tax day and I would have had it back by now if that was the case but I prefer to give in ways that don't necessarily involve me getting a tax break, the kind you can't itemize and deduct from your taxes and is not programmed. That style is in conflict with the prosperity mongers and the wofers however.

We are required to serve God in spirit and in truth not follow what your "mog" said:

Luke 10:21 (King James Version)

21In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

@Snowwy

I have two questions for you.

1. Suppose that for the next three months, you do not pay any tithes to anyone or any church, what do you think will happen to you?

2. Supposing that for the next three months, you take what would be your tithes and share them among beggars, orphans and sick people etc, what do you think will happen to you?

@Ogajim,
Easy boy!
If you found Malachi 3 fraudulent to you then thats your conclusion not mine ok.
If the law was still in effect before Jesus death then are you rendering all Jesus works/words on earth invalid?! So what scriptures do you follow? Only Acts to Revelation? At least I get why you have a problem with tithes. Thanks for the clarification.

@Enigma,
I am not sure I posted anything will happen to me if I do not pay tithes. Please quote me.
What will happen to you if you do not pray for the next 3 months or you do not help the needy? So please I don't understand the relevance of your question.

Anyways,
My first post was directed to kenny888 who seems to have gone AWOL.
Typically, he must have left us to engage in these debates while refraining from saying too much himself.

Proverbs 17:27 He that hath knowledge spareth his words: and a man of understanding is of an excellent spirit.
2 Tim 2:23 23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
May God direct us in every step of the way in life.
Cheers all.

Snowwy:

@Enigma,
I am not sure I posted anything will happen to me if I do not pay tithes. Please quote me.
What will happen to you if you do not pray for the next 3 months or you do not help the needy? So please I don't understand the relevance of your question.

It was just a question to try and understand your logic; I never suggested "quoting you"!

All I will say is that you are wrong to suggest that "tithing is required of Christians by God". This is an error and false doctrine; so be ready to be confronted by the truth of God's word whenever you make this kind of statement.

"Tithing" is NOT required of Christians let alone by God. Go and study the Bible properly including the debates on this site and stop spreading false doctrine if you truly believe in Jesus and fear God!!!

@ Enigma
I basically asked questions on this thread, didn't I? As I was trying to understand your logic.
I quoted scriptures so where did I say anything of my logic.
Don't jump into conclusions, be patient, go through my posts.
There is a mindset here which I am trying to understand how it was arrived at. Simple.

You quoted "Tithing" is NOT required of Christians let alone by God" - Just give me scriptures to educate me.

Oh and please show me the false doctrine I spread in this thread 'in quote pls'?
Afterall I am willing to take correction.

Snowwy:

@ Enigma
I basically asked questions on this thread, didn't I?

Not true, as I will show by quoting your post below.

Snowwy:

Oh and please show me the false doctrine I spread in thsi thread 'in quote pls'?
Afterall I am willing to take correction.

OK; we start with your very first post on this thread.

Snowwy:

@Poster, I have a question for you. How come your friend's tithe, which is what he should part with first from his earnings to honour God, is what he now wants to use to assist a friend? So you mean he spent the 90% on his budget and just has his tithe left for you to advise him on what to use it for - whether to give it to God or take your advice? He actually planned to give the 10% as tithe and because his friend asked for assistance, he would rather use the 10% for his friend rather than touch the 90% he budgeted for himself?  How does that sound to you?
Or this is just another avenue to ridicle the body of Christ alongside some others?
If he had to pay may be his school fees or some very pressing need of his, you will not ofcourse table it here saying
'Assisting a friend or pay school fees'. I guess you will know the answer to that.
This tithe thing has generated a lot of issues here especially for people who do not understand what it's all about or have just made up their minds to persecute the body of Christ because of this.
Just tell him to let God lead him. If you seek for answers in His word you will get it.
As per all those spending all their time and energy ridiculing pastors, whether fake or real, I must say you are really jobless.
Most of them never even spend time on means to win souls but anything on tithe/offering, they are on it like hawks.
Just consider that we will give account of every idle word. We should edify the body of Christ not tear it to shreds.
Remember, whether perfect or imperfect, it's Christ's bride.

The first bolded bit was a statement and not a question albeit a statement made as part of a question. More importantly it is an error and false doctrine.

The rest of your post is provocative even as it is both presumptuous and, if you forgive me, foolish. As I said before, go and study your Bible instead of spreading false doctrine and insulting people presumptuously.

@Enigma
Thanks.  So my quote 'which is what he should part with first from his earnings to honour God' is a false doctrine?
Since God is first in our lives, should we not put Him first in all we do? Or 'the friend' that wanted to pay tithe, since we assume the friend pays his tithe, was that not what he was to pay first before using the 90%?

'Honor the LORD with your wealth, with the firstfruits of all your crops; then your barns will be filled to overflowing, and your vats will brim over' - Prov 3:9


You are entitled to your opinions really.
As per boldening the latter part is that not true?
Those people know themselves already.
Like I said Enigma, lets leave the questions I asked to the poster ok.
I am yet to hear from him.

As I said before, you will be confronted with Biblical truth if you continue to spread the false doctrine that "tithing is required of Christians by God"!

Thanks Enigma.
We are all confronted with biblical truths when we study the bible daily since we are not perfect.
Cheers and remain in Christ.

@Snowy:

You wanted scriptural backing ehn? Please hold a Bible and lets go through the following together.

Deut 26 tells us when we enter the land God is giving us and have taken possession and settled, take "SOME" of the first fruit, go to the place God chooses as His dwelling and say to the "priest" in service at that time "I declare I've come to the place God promised us etc". After its set before God's altar, you make a prayer.

After that, IN THE THIRD (3RD) YEAR (WHICH IS THE YEAR OF THE TITHE), set aside a "tenth" of your produce and give to [1] the levite, [2] the alien [3] the fatherless and [4] the widow. Verses 13 to 15 inform us that you THEN have a right to declare you have done EVERYTHING GOD COMMANDED!

Lets assume getting to the land is "becoming born again". [A] You should take some of your first fruit, not a church imposed "tax" or "portion" or "the entirety of your first fruit"! [B] The place where God chooses as His dwelling is a very interesting concept and I believe Jesus point-blank defined where He lives when he said "when you did to the least of these, it was me you did it for" (Matt 25: 31 - 46). Jesus  lives with the naked, hungry, thirsty, strangers and helpless, not with RICH pastors driving 3 SUV's with money meant for those poor. [C] The word "Priest" is also interesting. Do we not read that the priesthood is now each and every of us possession. When you declare (AGAINST God's Word) that you have another priest, you are in direct sin and rebellion against God's Word. [D] "God's Altar" is obviously your sacrifice which Isaiah 58 verses 6 & 7 define God's Will and guidance for. Please show me pastor/priest etc there!

3 years later, the tithe should go to all of 4 groups of people! The levite, BTW, is included here, because they were not allowed to have "possessions" or work. Todays pastors have 2 ministries - the churchs' and theirs. Theirs is in charge of the books they publish, materials, sermons, gifts etc. All these go to their personal pockets and often run into millions after a crusade or outreach. How many of their congregation make a million a year tax free?

One thing I would like that you consider - Where did the decision to say the "My House" in Malachi 3 refers to your "church building" come from? Since when did God start living in a house built by humans? Scriptural answer please! Whats the size of His bedroom? I'd like to see the bathroom and toilet you built for the Almighty? And then the next church has its own living quarters too so how does God choose where to sleep? Do you get my point? Why can we not be honest and stop this scam "in the name of God"? Is it fair to God Himself knowing He entrusted His Word into our lives for us to turn it into a joke and means for making money. Spiritual 419! Na wa O

Meanwhile, I can imagine a church, rather than expending 2 Billion building a "befitting" catedral with "solid" air-conditioning or a  university to educate youth who will likely not find jobs, using the money to set up a center where hausas can learn trades. Go to Minna - train just 100 in carpentry, masonry, plumbing , electrification, refrigeration technology MONTHLY and turn them loose with 50K each at the end of their free 6 month to a year training. Don't preach to them but have your fellowships in their view and watch how many will join freely. You will learn the power of love by man to turn cold hearts to God. You will also know that it is frustration and poverty that caused Jos and other crisis. These people have no education or training whatsoever or has anyone here come across any number of hausa professional craftsmen? Do the above and you'd have saved their lives, made them "human" and saved the victims of Jos. You would have answered countless families prayers for help from God and helped make the society safer and more prosperous. For lack of such is the reason why they do "dollar dollar" or "sell black market fuel" and since those markets have limits, they now kill people in anger.

BUT we prefer that the "daddy mentor pastor" that gets all the money that would change our society. No wonder Christianity is ridiculed! You people make me want to cry!

@nuclearboy,
It's ok. Please do not cry.
The major issue I have deduced form the thread is the lifestyle of the church as well as the way tithe is preached.
Thanks that has answered most of my questions.
But don't forget that taxes are paid  and most of the time embezzled by those in power but it does not make tax wrong. Jesus paid tax too.
Many 'professional' beggars too build houses from alms, some use the money for rituals/diabolic means which may harm the giver.
Does that make giving alms bad still?
Many people pose as sick meanwhile have other plans for the money you give them, yet should that mean we should not help the poor?
So you see where I have issues. Lets weight things using God's scriptures always.
I pray God directs us all to always do whats right.
Nice to meet you.

@snowwy,pls dont deviate from enigma explanation. I expect you to agree with all what have been said so far on tithes. If these so called pastors should have their ways,they would request for tithes to be deducted from source just like tax is been deducted.

Snowwy Dude!

What you fail to understand is that God MANDATES Christians to help those around us Christian or not, I am not coming from the perspective of how it is spent, I am of the opinion it is not required, mandated or even encouraged. Can you count how many time Jesus Christ reiterated the need for us to love one another, honor thy father and thy mother, mercy, forgiveness, etc? Yet he only happened to mention tithe once in passing and you guys latch on to it?

The only motivation "Churches" have for preaching it is GREED, they have built this "magnificent edifice" and now need to tax their members to maintain and support operations when our Lord and savior DOESN'T live in Temples built with human hands.

Acts 7:48-49 (King James Version)

48Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

49Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

Why was Stephen martyred?

@Snowy:

Nice meeting you too.

To start with, my frustration and desire to cry comes from NOT being able to stick a xmas banger up some noses and set them off

I'm happy your post is mainly about "taxes". Whats unfortunate is that you have not provided even one scriptural backing for your position - you wanted scripture, I provided a bit. Where's your scriptural rebutal? Rather, you appealed to the senses and said Jesus paid tax - to whom? Ceaser, I believe, the representative head of a cruel political economic system. Is your church the same? No wonder then!

Basically then -
[1] You have no scriptural basis for "taxes" since THERE IS NONE! [2] You conveniently did not mention tithes since the Word of God is clear on that as discussed earlier. [3] You have decided on behalf of God that you have a right to intepret God's Word to suit yourself [4] you believe anything given to the poor and needy "could" be embezzled or used to harm you and these "issues" (as you call them) are the reason why you have right to tamper with God's Directives and give to the wealthy from whom you expect a blessing. BTW, is this why we give? to recieve? or was it meant to show love?

Is it then any suprise that we are arguing? Would you sincerely expect me to agree with your postulations above?

Listen - my sister came to me awhile back. A neighbor (housewife with no job) having recently had a baby, had another on the way and then suddenly lost her husband. Rent became due - we raised the cash for her and then sat down to find a way out of begging for her. How often do you think this happens? EVERYDAY, bros, people are in serious trouble financially. Go to hospitals and see people looking for cash to pay for life threatening issues, not the "issues" you're imagining as an excuse to give what is due to the needy to your rich pastor. Or go to an orphanage - are they pretending too? Take up the schooling of 1 orphan and see it through or anonymously pay for treatment of a serious health problem for someone who doesn't know you. That is God's commandment. (IS 58)

But don't come here self-righteous telling us needy people "may" have other plans! Go, brother, and read the words of Jesus when HE rebuked people for starving their parents by saying what was due them was dedicated to God. Thats what you're doing here and it stinks.

@ Snowwy

Actually, nuclearboy's latest post above and re-reading your post that I shall be quoting below prompt me to reply to you further.

Snowwy:

@Enigma . . .
So my quote 'which is what he should part with first from his earnings to honour God' is a false doctrine?

Yes --- because of what followed it as quoted below. It can, however, be good doctrine as I will show you.

Snowwy:

Since God is first in our lives, should we not put Him first in all we do? Or 'the friend' that wanted to pay tithe, since we assume the friend pays his tithe, was that not what he was to pay first before using the 90%?

'Honor the LORD with your wealth, with the firstfruits of all your crops; then your barns will be filled to overflowing, and your vats will brim over' - Prov 3:9

It is this part and your misuse of scripture that makes your first quoted statement false doctrine. You are suggesting that the first thing a person should do is "pay 'tithes'"; implicitly, you are excluding from "pay tithes" the possibility that by giving the money to the sick person the chap would have paid the "tithes". What you have left unsaid but which is also clearly implied is that "tithes" are supposed to be paid into "church".

All that is wrong. Go back and read this thread from the beginning; also think carefully about nuclearboy's last post. Finally, we have made the point repeatedly that Jesus says you should give to Him! How? By helping, the sick the poor, the hungry, the needy etc. So if you must "pay tithes", the actual best way to "pay tithes" is to give it to those people that Jesus told you represent Him.

If you cannot read the whole thread, go and read this post: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-421491.96.html#msg5816734

Edited