₦airaland Forum

Scholar8200:
Where ?

Google it.

Scholar8200:
The fact that a person milleniums later quoted Enoch's prophecy tells you that it was known by some. (in fact, "Methuselah" was a prediction of an imminent judgement). Hence, that you find that prophecy in Jude does not mean that it was a quote from the Book of Enoch.

But this prophecies were not written in another book. Besides, in those days of aloof cities and people, don't u think the person would have been easily caught considering the prophecies being well known.

Scholar8200:
Moreover, since God inspired Enoch's prophecy, would it be anything if Jude was inspired to write what he wrote? Or was there any that would also claim to have supplied Jude with what transpired with Moses' dead body?

Gosh, this is simply proof that he got the info from the Book, that existed before he was born.

Scholar8200:
We would miss a lot if we fail to understand that God that inspires men to speak of things to happen centuries later, can also inspire same for records of events long gone!

Huh?, he just picked out an info from the book.


Pls, let's not deviate, my unanswered question still stands.

Scholar8200:
How do I? Well, a cross-examination with history and past prophecies on the subject matter is a good starting point. A strong dependence on the Inspirer will undergird this effort though.

Besides, the writer lived milleniums after the real Enoch; he was neither an eye-witness nor a protege of the man whose name the book shares. Moreover, the book contains contradictions that are against the Bible; and major errors not in anyway congruent with the OT/NT/or immaterial based on pure infirmity :

1:1 Implies restoration during tribulation - not congruent with scriptures.
1:8 In conflict with the doctrine that peace was made at the cross. Also, in the last days tribulation will increase for the righteous - this "verse" seems to dispute that.
2:2-3 Appears to contradict 2 Pet 3:3-7
5:4 Is an admonition to some unknown party - this is very irregular relative to the scriptures (i.e. authentic ancient writings by God-fearing Jews)
6:3 Semjaza seems to be listed as the leader of the angels, which is not scriptural
6:3,8 None of these angels are mentioned in the Bible
8:1 Azazel isn't even listed in 6:8 as one of the angels that fornicated with women
8:3 Araqiel and Shamsiel aren't listed in 6:8 either
10:2 Enoch allegedly wrote about Noah, even though the Bible teaches that Enoch was taken up to heaven years before Noah was born.
10:4-6,12 Implies angels can be bound & hid in holes under rocks. This is contrary to scripture.
10:8 Ascribes all the sin of the fallen angels to one named Azazel - not scriptural.
10:15-11:2 Seems to imply that permanent restoration took place after the flood - clearly not true. It seems the true author of this book confused scriptures pertaining to the future restoration.
13:5-6,14:4-5,7 Implies fallen angels can't talk to God - this contradicts Job. Also implies that angels were repentant, but weren't received back by God - very strange doctrine.
14 Gives a very strange description of Heaven that conflicts with many scriptures
15:8-10 Very strange doctrine about "evil spirits" proceeding from unredeemable giants etc

http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/8576/why-is-the-book-of-enoch-not-regarded-as-canonical

Well I've read more than half of the book of Enoch and some points listed here are taken out of context; Lucifer was hardly mentioned, and I think that addresses the case of Job, Azazel was like a leader of the fallen angels on earth, and not the first of the fallen, he met with Enoch most of the time, but never really talked about the fall, he was just more powerful and Noah's flood was predicted.
I don't want to go any further to argue about the veracity of the book of Enoch.( Mind u Jesus, Jude and Paul quoted that book )
I just asked how do u distinguish an inspired book from one that is not inspired?, writers could have easily come together to make things correlate, in order to gain control, Just like Eusebius was the first person to quote a forged paragraph, in order to gain control.

[quote author=hahn post=48393603]

oaroloye:
JUST BECAUSE YAHWEH PREDICTED THE FATE OF THE LINEAGE OF ABRAHAM, THAT DOES NOT IMPLY "OMNISCIENCE."

I really don't get u.
Omniscience is simply all-knowing.
And this being predicted the fate of Abraham's generation(more than 5 or > generations after him). How did he know 4sure that Abraham's gen, will be slaves, if not "omniscience".

oaroloye:
He did not NAME any of those descendants.

This point is invalid.

oaroloye:
Only those who OBEYED THE LAWS OF THE COVENANTS benefited specifically from God's Protection.

Nope, only the Israelites(Abraham's generation) and their slaves.

oaroloye:
Meanwhile OTHER races were going to HELL in quickmarch!

Which he knew right?

hahn:
Abeg quote me when he responds

OK

Scholar8200:
No. These apocryphas were there before Christ and they were commonly known as purely literary works, not Inspired. Most of them were written during the 400 years of Divine Silence.

How do u distinguish in this context, a literary work from an inspired one?

Scholar8200:
First, right from the time of Enoch in Genesis, there was a prophecy that a destruction was to come after the death of Methuselah. Enoch being a godly man too gave prophecies. The book of Enoch was written milleniums later after Enoch and it contains many outright, unscriptural errors. The author quoted Enoch's prophecy and named the book after him to endear it to the people.

I doubt this. On the sermon on the mount, Jesus was establishing God's standards as against what had been generally accepted till that time that is why the people were astonished at the authority with which He taught. Just like saying hatred/anger is tantamount to murder was unknown in the OT.

The book of Susanna gave a story of two elders, to buttress that point, but I don't wanna go any further.
********
Scholars agree that the synoptic gospels were not written by eye witnesses(the disciples), but from a common source.
But this gospels, are still in the bible, since it propagated the existence of christ, isn't this proof of cherrypicking done by the early church fathers.

4everGod:
its not as simple as that as its all based on its not as simple as that as its all based on calculations of longitude and latitude as the earth does not rotate at the same rate all year round so stick to your field of knowledge as this is mine so stick to your field of knowledge as this is mine

***calculations of longitude and latitude as the earth does not rotate at the same rate all year round***, I basically said this.

**Not as simple as that**, pls shed a little more light. (Honestly just trying to get enlightened, looks like I av been misinformed)

Scholar8200:
No thanks, Jude wrote that. Besides, Jude did not make reference to the book of Enoch. The book of Enoch was an attempt by error to ride on the back of generally known facts to gain acceptance.

Sorry, I thought Paul wrote that book.
Why do u think the book of Enoch is not inspired?
What's ur criteria for inspiration?

Scholar8200:
Until you remember, I would say that was a quote based on a speech that came before the Law, Job 31:1

It was referenced in one of the gnostic teaching videos I watched earlier. The book of Susanna.

4everGod:
Have you ever bothered to find out where Alaska is in comparison to Gibeon (Jerusalem) and how the summer solstice affects both? Alaska experiences 24 hours darkness but we would not call it night its more like night time in the afternoon and lasts for 24 hrs. In the parts of Alaska above the Arctic Circle, it is dark 24 hours per day for about 67 days during winter. Conversely, it does not get dark for about 80 days during the summer in the same area, a phenomenon known as the "Midnight Sun."

This phenomenon can be explained by the rotation of the earth.
Note that the earth don't constantly rotate on the same axis

4everGod:
This is where your reasoning fails. Even common sense would have told you that if as they read and researched all the pages of scripture available to them that they would have been noticing some repeated similar occurrences from different writers which is why i used "probability" in my other response.

Even they would have to use "reference" to filter the books and the books are references to themselves so if there is a book which they can find no reference to its content in any of the other books then its an anomaly.

Paul made reference to the book of Enoch in the book of Jude.
Jesus also made reference to one of the apocrypha(can't remember), where he talked about 'looking at a woman lustfully is a sin'.

So much for common sense

AnonyNymous:
Well according to the bible, the earth is a little over 6000 - 10,000 years old which means crude oil doesn't exist. But it does exist. In fact, its the reason for 90% of the problems in Nigeria

Some Christians are old earth creationist

MJBOLT:
Forbes Celebrity 100

The Celebrity 100 is an annual list compiled and published by Forbes magazine since 1999. The purpose is to list the 100 most powerful celebrities of the year. Factors that are taken into account include income, Google hits, fan base, press clips and magazine covers.

** The purpose is to list the 100 most powerful celebrities of the year.**
"Of the year", now I understand the confusion.

MJBOLT:
I was expecting Katy perry to be on the list

ikr, do u know d criteria for compiling this list

Wowww, Taylor Swift the most powerful, One Direction is even there too.

I was expecting to see Dr.dre, Beyonce, Rihanna,....
People even worship Beyonce

But kudos to Adele and Kevin Hart.

kilo4sure:
Take Saul as an example, God put Saul as king, Saul misbehaved and then he found David. Saul was replaced with David. The parable of Jesus in which many were selected to come to a feast and they refused, with others taking their place is another example.

Ok

kilo4sure:
He knows the elect because he chose them before they were born and ordained them for glory, his will however is that all of them whom he has given to Jesus should not be lost. The problem is he doesn't know if they would persevere till the end because of their freewill to choose, this is why Paul himself believed he could be a cast away.

Ok, I get u now.

kilo4sure:
I do not agree with all of oaroloye's point but to an extent his view on Yahweh is not far fetched.
For example in Genesis 18v21, the lord has heard so much about Sodom and Gommorah, and he has come to verify himself.
Another example is when he states that isrealite's burning of their children, is something that has never even crossed his mind. However this doesn't nullify the fact that God chooses some not because they are special in any way but to do some work e.g Jeremiah who was ordained before he was born, as well as Paul, this people suffered a lot, and who knows? Some of them did not even live out half their potential to God's disappointment. However oaroloye is right that God has prepared a certain glory for those who persevere till the end. This glory is also from the foundation of the world.

*This glory is also from the foundation of the world.*, which means foreknowledge, so then how could a being with foreknowledge be disappointed of what he already knows.

kilo4sure:
Brilliant question, l do not know for a fact if they had the freewill to turn away from God's purpose, but from what l can deduce from the scriptures, l would say this is very possible. To an extent l still feel that Yahweh has been disappointed with many whom he has chosen and given gifts because in the end they made choices that were detrimental to divine purpose. Many of the chosen still do not live up to their full potential. For example God chose Jacob even before he was born, but the decision to cheat his brother was definitely from Jacob himself. Esau who was not as blessed as Jacob became more wealthy than Jacob by his freewill even his descendants for many years were quite successful and produced wise men. So even in predestination, l would say the elect can choose to be deceived or abandon purpose, this would not thwart God's plan because he can even replace them.

Ok
How do u mean he could replace them?
Isn't everyone(Christians) chosen for different purposes? [Note: I'm talking about the same time period]

Op, where is da pic?

analice107:
You are so Pained. He really struck a cord.
So you are indeed a Satan worshipper pretending you don't believe in God's existence? That's the difference between African Satan worshippers and Western Satan worshippers. Stop the presence.

He just corrected the misconception of the op.
But because of intense dogmatism, u r still tryna deny the stupidity u see in the op. SMH

@oaroloye
If God is not omniscience, then how do u explain the prophecy of the fate of Abraham's generation declared in Gen15:13.
Also can u pls expatiate a little more on God's limitations and those levels.

KingEbukasBlog:
I mean people who are not predestined to make heaven .

I suppose Moses will be one of the example of those who must follow a course. Right?
If so, his original course was obviously to lead the children of Israelites to the promise land, but well, that didn't happen because God got angry of his action(freewill I suppose).

My question also to kilo4sure, is do this people who have been called out to do serious work, also have the luxury of freewill even during their course. Clearly, Moses did what God did not want him to do, he also advised God not to destroy the Israelites(the focus of Yahweh's purpose ).
If your answer is yes, then chances are, moses could have abandoned the Israelites, Paul could have backslided out of arrogance, Jesus could have given up(the cup) cos of pain and fear, and so on. Right?
If not, properly explain the case of Moses.

KingEbukasBlog:
So have you figured out your God's purpose for creating the universe and bestowing humans with reasoning

Nope

KingEbukasBlog:
Based on reason .

Yes

KingEbukasBlog:
So if there could be aliens of higher intelligence than man , why conclude that your God is anthropomorphic ? Do you think aliens are anthropomorphic ?

I 'think' aliens would also have human attributes like thoughts and emotions, just probably higher than ours, so yes I think there are anthropomorphic.

sunkoye:
men are allowed to take mild decisions which are greatly influenced by lesser powers but the major decision are made by the powers that be. So men technically are highly controlled. It's only God dat can predestined who is the ultimate power.

Based on my understanding of Yahweh, I totally agree with you.

@kilo4sure you said:
There is a form of freewill for all to believe but ultimately no one can believe if God does not choose to teach him to believe. -----what do u mean by "form of freewill to believe".

God himself who made all men, knows what he has made them for, he knows why he may not draw a man to Jesus in this age, for his ways are past finding out, however we must continue to preach for we do not know whom God wants to add to the church. ------- Going by this; how would u differentiate freewill from illusion, what if the preacher was supposed to? & if u disagree on the subject of illusion, why then do u 'consider' the possibility that God might not draw a man to Jesus.

KingEbukasBlog:
Yup . Then he was talking of the "normal" people

What do u mean by "normal", I just quoted verses, where he "included himself".

KingEbukasBlog:
Is there a possibility that there could be more than one eternal creators ?

Nope.
Though there could be beings(aliens) higher than homos. But I believe there is 'a' creator.

KingEbukasBlog:
Bro , these verses are not germane . Or better still elucidate pls

Paul(who I suppose would be your example for those who must follow a course), said to the congregation that the same grace given unto them was also given to him, so that no man will think highly of himself. You still don't see my point?

He also talked about the same thing in 1cor15:9&10, that he laboured more abundantly than the disciples, to have reached his feat [not predestination]. Do u get me now?

KingEbukasBlog:
Then its faith buttressed with ratiocination .

Nope its ratiocination buttressed with views from others.

KingEbukasBlog:
It is not biblical and God would not create someone just to go to hell .

2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

You said some must follow a course.
Acts 10:34 says God is no respecter of persons
Paul also said the same thing, 'including himself', also in romans 12:3

KingEbukasBlog:
Reason ? Or Faith ?

Reason

KingEbukasBlog:
Because you can't prove your God is anthropomorphic , can you ?

Neither can you. .

KingEbukasBlog:
Second question : Must your God be anthropomorphic ? Any reasons for asserting he is one ?

I admit, its also based on biblical and other religious concept.