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Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by Shepherd00: 8:38pm On May 09
budaatum:

Then let that be your understanding, "that my understanding is merely flesh". Whether it profits me need not be your concern since you would not be standing by God when I am judged.

I must say though that it amuses me that you presume to know my profit as far as spiritual things are concerned. Have you been watching my fruits, I wonder.
No vex nah. I only want to know how you get to know and understand a Spirit without first believing what that spirit says about Himself.
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by Shepherd00: 8:39pm On May 09
budaatum:

I have answered your question Shepherd. I now ask you. Am I, buda, personally ashamed of Jesus?
Buda, you didn't answer me. I asked a personal question, you gave a general answer.
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by budaatum: 10:20pm On May 09
A Spirit, I take it, of the Lord God Almighty who created the entire universe made you start this thread so we should not allow ourselves to be led into temptation of not recognising the word is the life and the light of all humans which shines in the darkness and is not overcome. In it we should honour the words of one another if only because we have both read in the very beginning it created all things.

I never ever shy away from answering questions if the questioner really wants to know so state where you don't understand me and I will gladly explain myself but once I've answered I see no reason to concern myself with those who shut their eyes and ignore my answer. The title of this thread is not "buda, what do Christians believe", nor was it "buda, come here and let me Shepherd00 preach to you!" It is Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him?

I hope the Holy Spirit did inform you of the assumption in your question. Would you elaborate on what you meant by the title you chose for this thread please? And do forgive me for believing beans is not beans.

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Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by budaatum: 10:51pm On May 09
Shepherd00:

No vex nah. I only want to know how you get to know and understand a Spirit without first believing what that spirit says about Himself.
I will not vex.

When I was a baby there was a staircase on the other side of my cot, and every night when everyone was asleep these dark hooded beings used to come down from above and terrorise me. So I used to cry a lot at night and keep everyone awake and I was tired in the day until I learnt that if I stayed up reading and don't sleep early they would get tired of waiting and go bother someone else and not be able to terrorise me anymore.

I didn't believe those hooded beings were there, I didn't want those hooded beings to be there, they were just there, spiritually tormenting me, night after night until I was 6 years 5 months and 15 days old. Those years were my very first encounters with spirits.
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by Shepherd00: 11:36pm On May 09
budaatum:

I will not vex.

When I was a baby there was a staircase on the other side of my cot, and every night when everyone was asleep these dark hooded beings used to come down from above and terrorise me. So I used to cry a lot at night and keep everyone awake and I was tired in the day until I learnt that if I stayed up reading and don't sleep early they would get tired of waiting and go bother someone else and not be able to terrorise me anymore.

I didn't believe those hooded beings were there, I didn't want those hooded beings to be there, they were just there, spiritually tormenting me, night after night until I was 6 years 5 months and 15 days old. Those years were my very first encounters with spirits.
And this conditioned your disposition about Jesus?

And, yet as an atheist you said spirits never existed?

Now, what changed? That you didn't believe they were there by ignoring them, obliterated them?

My dearest Buda, these Spirits get as close to us as they can based on our participation in what they intend to do with us. (To whom you yield to, you become servants to obey), says Jesus.

Jesus is our very lives, whether we participate in what he wants with our lives or not, He is ever present, so also the evil spirits.

They seek our consent and most of us give it to evil spirits without knowing. Some, their parents give the consent on their behalf. Like what you explained, it's most likely your parents gave their consent on your behalf knowingly or no.

Whether we believe it or not, we are encompassed by Spirits.
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by budaatum: 3:45am On May 10
Shepherd00:

And this conditioned your disposition about Jesus?

And, yet as an atheist you said spirits never existed?

Now, what changed? That you didn't believe they were there by ignoring them, obliterated them?

My dearest Buda, these Spirits get as close to us as they can based on our participation in what they intend to do with us. (To whom you yield to, you become servants to obey), says Jesus.

Jesus is our very lives, whether we participate in what he wants with our lives or not, He is ever present, so also the evil spirits.

They seek our consent and most of us give it to evil spirits without knowing. Some, their parents give the consent on their behalf. Like what you explained, it's most likely your parents gave their consent on your behalf knowingly or no.

Whether we believe it or not, we are encompassed by Spirits.
You really are a very funny person Shepherd.

What changed was we moved to a hotter country into a flat 3 floors up with big massive windows in my bedroom tons of breeze like it was ac. I slept like a baby and never had those horrible dreams again unless I slept in a hot stuffy room. Even today, I'll howl in my sleep if I make that mistake. Ma and pa hated the cold where we'd lived till then so they'd put the heater on high at night and I got so hot I had nightmares. When I got to the hot country it stopped. I guess that's why I don't believe in spirits, as such, spiritually speaking.

Do you mind speaking for yourself and not the "us", please. Your experience is not my experience so you can not exactly have sufficient knowledge to impose your experience on me. I find it disrespectful, if you don't mind.

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Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by Shepherd00: 6:43pm On May 10
budaatum:

You really are a very funny person Shepherd.

What changed was we moved to a hotter country into a flat 3 floors up with big massive windows in my bedroom tons of breeze like it was ac. I slept like a baby and never had those horrible dreams again unless I slept in a hot stuffy room. Even today, I'll howl in my sleep if I make that mistake. Ma and pa hated the cold where we'd lived till then so they'd put the heater on high at night and I got so hot I had nightmares. When I got to the hot country it stopped. I guess that's why I don't believe in spirits, as such, spiritually speaking.

Do you mind speaking for yourself and not the "us", please. Your experience is not my experience so you can not exactly have sufficient knowledge to impose your experience on me. I find it disrespectful, if you don't mind.
You have almost dragged me away from my Op.

I opened this thread to find out from you how one can be a Christian (follower of Christ) without believing in Him. This is not really about the ghosts in your life Buda.
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by budaatum: 10:10pm On May 10
Shepherd00:

You have almost dragged me away from my Op.

I opened this thread to find out from you how one can be a Christian (follower of Christ) without believing in Him. This is not really about the ghosts in your life Buda.
You were the one who asked about spirits and those were the only spirits I knew and I thought I should tell you especially after searching deep and realising I've never told anyone ever. Sorry I dragged you.

Education is like treasure hidden in a field. When a person is educated, in joy will they sell all they have and buy that field because they know the value of education before staking their entire being on it. At least I think one should know, and not just take a chance that the belief they made up in their head is the truth.

Learning and knowing and understanding Jesus will make one a follower of Jesus. That's how early missionaries took it around the world. They taught how to read and gave bibles and thereby freed people from the fear of 'spirits' and ignorance that they believed. Our parents do it too, investing in the education of we their children. And we do it too, investing in our own children. I am assuming no one with Christ educates their child or their self's in Bible belief alone, correct me if I'm wrong.

The foundation of faith must be rock solid. And some are blessed with the tendency to search all things diligently, even the deepest things of their own heart and soul and intellect and mind and being so they don't have to believe because they can endeavour to know.
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by budaatum: 10:16pm On May 10
Shepherd00:

Buda, you are smarter than this nah. The Word of God is understood in different ways, literally and in context.
I think you better research this. There are many more ways than "two ways" to interpret the Word of God.
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by budaatum: 10:57pm On May 10
Shepherd00:


Our opinions hardly counts here sir. If we are His followers, we keep our opinions to ourselves or quit.
Seriously? One doesn't allow the Spirit that God put in one to manifest how God wants it to?

I don't agree that one should "keep our opinions to ourselves or quit" at all, since it would contravene what to do when one lights a light.
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by Shepherd00: 9:35am On May 11
budaatum:

Seriously? One doesn't allow the Spirit that God put in one to manifest how God wants it to?
Yes buda, seriously. One can only allow the Spirit that God put in him to manifest as God wants it to, if that one obeys what he is asked to do. not what you think is right.

It was stupid for anyone to believe and obey if he is told to put water in a wine jar and pour it out as wine and serve the high lords, but believing without asking questions resulted to what we now talk about as a miracle. If those servants had their own opinions, the jars would have had water rather than wine.

budaatum:
.
I don't agree that one should "keep our opinions to ourselves or quit" at all, since it would contravene what to do when one lights a light.
You seem to forget that when that Candle is lit, it is the Light which is Jesus that shines through you to illuminate others, not your own light.

Buda, obeying God and doing His Will, which begins with you BELIEVING in Him and in what He says as true, that puts you in a pedestal as the light that cannot be hid.

Like I said before, the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation is about Believing that what we are told is true, and obeying without asking questions or join Adam and have your own opinions.

Give me one Patriarch who had their own opinions outside of the instructions they were given, yet have their lights shinning today?


Again. Our Opinions don't count, because without Christ, you have no light.
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by Shepherd00: 9:46am On May 11
budaatum:

I think you better research this. There are many more ways than "two ways" to interpret the Word of God.
Pls list these other ways, I'd like to learn more.
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by budaatum: 11:39am On May 11
Shepherd00:

Pls list these other ways, I'd like to learn more.
Stop lying Shepherd. You don't "like to learn more", you just want to argue that you already know it all!

All the same, here's a good place to start.

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Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by budaatum: 11:47am On May 11
Shepherd00:


Like I said before, the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation is about Believing that what we are told is true, and obeying without asking questions or join Adam and have your own opinions.
And I am telling you that this is your own opinion. It is not the only understanding of Genesis to Revelation, and it is most definitely not an opinion I have of such a wonderfully amazing book. Still, you don't have to get what I get. Please get your "believing" from it and I'll get what it is I get from it. I'm sure God knows who does God's will.
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by budaatum: 11:50am On May 11
Shepherd00:

Again. Our Opinions don't count, because without Christ, you have no light.
I'm absolutely certain you believe all you are saying here is not your opinion since God must have made you his mouthpiece.

If I have no light I wonder how you figured I can possibly be following Christ. Or is it darkness that you see in buda?
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by Shepherd00: 12:04pm On May 11
.




budaatum:

You were the one who asked about spirits and those were the only spirits I knew and I thought I should tell you especially after searching deep and realising I've never told anyone ever. Sorry I dragged you
I can't remember asking you about cowardly ghosts who frighten little children in the dark. I asked you the possibility of knowing or understanding Jesus (Who happens to be a Spirit) without FIRST BELIEVING in Him and what He teaches. Pls I am interested in this.
And, thanks for not dragging us off point henceforth.

budaatum:

Education is like treasure hidden in a field . When a person is educated, in joy will they sell all they have and buy that field because they know the value of education before staking their entire being on it. At least I think one should know, and not just take a chance that the belief they made up in their head is the truth.
This is my point the whole time. How do you KNOW GOD who is a Spirit without BELIEVING THAT WHAT HE says ABOUT HIM IS TRUE? For as far as the Supernatural is concerned, whether godly or ungodly, you believe first before you see, it is when you see then you get convinced, it is conviction that brings you to the place of Knowing that for a fact this thing is true. believing is not taking a chance as you say, it's a requirement for walking the Supernatural.

Let's take Thomas for instance. He was present when the master said He wld resurrect from the dead, he had seen Lazarus resurrect from the dead (or not), he still did not believe. He wanted to jump Believing to knowing which comes with SEEING and Touching FIRST. What did the Master say to him? Blessed are those who wld believe without seeing But, here you are saying we don't have to believe, but like Thomas must understand and know about Spirits and their spiritual ways.

Patriarch Abraham trusted and left Ur of Sumeria, a civilized place to an unknown nameless place, even when he had not known Jehovah before, he obeyed. did he believed or knew? Did he sit down to research, understand and know who Jehovah was before following?

A man with a barren wife was told he'd be a father of many nations. He was told to look up and count the stars, as those were the number of his kids. Did he Believe or know it was true?

He was told to kill the same child that he had waited for 25 yrs to have after the promise, he obeyed. Did he know that God could raise Issac back from the dead? Had he seen it happen before? He believed. He was told all the land he could see was his...

How could he have known that all these things were true without first believing in Him who spoke and what he said?

Buda, pls tell me anyone who had successfully walked with God who first researched about God and understood God and what He commanded before fallowing, and I will mention all the Patriarchs who believed and obeyed what they were told without questions.

budaatum:

Learning and knowing and understanding Jesus will make one a follower of Jesus.
Okay, Buda, let's study and understand how Jesus turned water into wine. explain.

How he made mud and opened the eyes of the one born blind. explain.

How He fed 5 thousand men, women and children not counted. explain.

Let's learn and understand how he raised a rotting buried corpse after four days of being dead.

How He was able to command demons to leave a demoniac who no man could bind.

Let's understand how he healed leprosy by just touching them. And how about the ones He didn't touch but who touched just His clothes? Or you don't believe these things happened?

Oh, wait!!! you said they were propagandas as so many people whispered these things before they were written.

Buda, if we are still talking about Jesus of Nazareth, The very Jehovah who took up flesh and came to earth in the vessel called Jesus, If it is that one, He says you shd BELIEVE in Him and what he teaches.
Not, intellectually learn to understanding him and then follow Him.For blessed are those who believe, for there shall be a performance of those things which are told him. Like Abraham and Moses, and David, and Daniel, and us today's Christians around the world who are not even Jews, but believe and are seen tremendous results.

He said to Nicodemus, 'If I tell you about Earthly things and you don't understand, how will you understand when I tell you about Spiritual things?'. how do you study to understand a Spirit buda.

This is not Buddhism Buda, this is the Christian Faith. Before it was called Christianity, it was called 'The FAITH'.

Acts 6:7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith. and Faith is believing.

Spiritual things are Spiritually understood, but you can't understand them without first believing in them.

Buda, you are an intellectual and wants to apply intellectualism in following Jesus, it doesn't walk that way. I don't want to flood this thread with scriptures of Jesus telling us to BELIEVE in Him. But, it seems you are a philosopher who must search out all things.

When Jesus, through Paul says, 'Study to show yourselves approved into God', He didn't say we shd study and understand Him before following.

budaatum:

That's how early missionaries took it around the world. They taught how to read and gave bibles and thereby freed people from the fear of 'spirits' and ignorance that they believed.
Oh! pls Buda just stop this okay? You are not talking to a child. The early missionaries believed in the saving power of the Gospel, hence they risked their lives to bring it to us. They saw The Life and Light in it that liberates from sin and satan.

They taught us to read and believe the right way. They taught us to read so that we could read the Bible and see for yourselves that what they taught us was true. They try to shows us that hating and killing each other does no one harm but ourselves. They taught us to stop being wicked to our fellow men.


And, most importantly, they taught us to read the Bible and get introduced to Jesus and His saving grace personally. The knowledge of the Gospel which is Power opens us up to our rights in Christ. It shows us that in Christ, we are more powerful than any demon in hell, hence free us from the fear of death which satan uses to cage us.

They didn't teach us to read the Bible so that we could disbelief in Spirits and their workings, as you try to imply here. They taught us to know who these spirits are and how to follow them and the consequences of our choices.

As much as you tell yourself that there are no spirits both good and evil, the fact won't change that they are. Anyone who reads the Bible even at the literal level will see clearly the operations of demons, so pls stop or, go on believing or knowing what you want.

budaatum:

Our parents do it too, investing in the education of we their children. And we do it too, investing in our own children. I am assuming no one with Christ educates their child or their self's in Bible belief alone, correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes, that is why Jesus through Solomon said, 'bring =train up a Child in a way he shd go, so that when he is grown, he will not depart from it', and 'Study to show your approved unto God...'.

You get transformed and renewed by knowing your redemptive rights in Christ, but you can never exercise those rights if you don't first believe that what you are given is real. For Jesus says 'He that Comes to Him (follow Him), must first BELIEVE that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them who DILIGENTLY seek Him. Heb 11:6. But, how do you seek him whom you do not believe in?

I am taught from the Bible that Christ has taken away sickness from me by the whips he endured at his passion, I believe it, and I have been exercising that right. Last night, from nowhere I felt like someone hit my rib cage with an hammer. the pain was so excruciating that i could not lie down, but I had to sleep. I am exercising my faith by not taking medication, so I prayed believing that whatever that was, will go. I slept with the pain, it was so bad that my night was very rough, but I woke up this morning, the pain is gone. Normally, I wld ve gone to see a doctor this morning to find out what could cause that kind of pain. But, I believe in the healing power of Christ. This, I read from the Bible, and I believed it to be true and it's working for me.

budaatum:

The foundation of faith must be rock solid. And some are blessed with the tendency to search all things diligently, even the deepest things of their own heart and soul and intellect and mind and being so they don't have to believe because they can endeavour to know.
I wish you got this from a verse of the Scripture (?). And why haven't you used scriptures for all you teach here Buda? How do you have a foundation of faith without believing?

Can faith be separated from believe?

Jesus Who is Jehovah says Believe in me, worship Me in Spirit and in truth for I seek such to worship Me, but you Buda say, 'do not believe in God, and don't Worship Him because He does not need anyone to worship Him'.

This is what New Age people say about their Budhers

I am seeing a pattern here Buda.

Anyone who turns people away from Believing and Worshiping God is against God. Buda, are you subtly turning people away from God?

Am waiting for your tirates of abuses tho.
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by budaatum: 12:51pm On May 11
Shepherd00:

I wish you got this from a verse of the Scripture (?). And why haven't you used scriptures for all you teach here Buda? How do you have a foundation of faith without believing?
Shepherd, you have no shame! You remove links from my post then accuse me of not providing any! And when I accuse you of being dishonest, and claim I say what I never said, you claim I insult you when I'm only stating obvious observations. Or do you seriously think everyone is blind like you and would not see that buda has repeatedly and continously provided links in this thread?

budaatum:
The foundation of faith must be rock solid. And some are blessed with the tendency to search all things diligently, even the deepest things of their own heart and soul and intellect and mind and being so they don't have to believe because they can endeavour to know.
I have a very solid foundation of my faith because I more than believe. I diligently search so that I know.

Whats amusing is that you are arguing with your beliefs, for which you seem to lack a foundation, with me who has checked those beliefs and found the knowledge that underpins those beliefs you hold on to. And in your blindness, you think I am claiming the beliefs are wrong, when my claim is that believing is not as good as knowing.

Maybe if I lay it out for you you'd get it.

Shepherd00: I believe in God.

Budaatum: I know God.

You believe the Lord is your shepherd, while I know I am shepherded by God, would be an example. Surely, you believe because your faith is bigger and you are going to heaven, while mine is a tiny mustard seed and I'm going somewhere else, according to you. Thankfully, it is as is written. "By our fruits are we known".

I suggest you stop worrying what God makes of buda and concern yourself with what God makes of Shepherd. Neither of us would be there helping God judge the other.

Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by Shepherd00: 2:17pm On May 11
budaatum:

Shepherd, you have no shame! You remove links from my post then accuse me of not providing any! And when I accuse you of being dishonest, and claim I say what I never said, you claim I insult you when I'm only stating obvious observations. Or do you seriously think everyone is blind like you and would not see that buda has repeatedly and continously provided links in this thread?
Let my shamelessness not be any of your concern Buda. I talk of Bible verses you talk links. Links to what? Christians talking about scriptures shd leave the Bible and talk abt what?

Sorry Buda, I won't join you in your pettiness.
I ask questions, if you like answer them, but to bring me to the mud were we'll slinging poo is what you won't have me do.

budaatum:

I have a very solid foundation of my faith because I more than believe. I diligently search so that I know.
You do indeed. Five minutes ago, you were an atheist who didn't believe God or any spirit existed. You were everywhere insulting God and Christians, now you have a solid foundation of... Which Faith exactly Buda? because the foundation of the Christian Faith is hinged on Believing, which you are here saying you don't.

budaatum:

Whats amusing is that you are arguing with your beliefs, for which you seem to lack a foundation, with me who has checked those beliefs and found the knowledge that underpins those beliefs you hold on to. And in your blindness, you think I am claiming the beliefs are wrong, when my claim is that believing is not as good as knowing.
You are not claiming the beliefs are wrong, or that they are not as good as knowing. Here you are trying to shift the goal post yet accuse me of dishonesty.

You say categorically that you don't believe in God, and we do not have to believe. When I quoted a scripture you for, you said it was mistranslated as it has been done over time. Do you remember me talking about Context? I told you, the context of the Word cannot change.

My question is. HOW DO YOU KNOW A SPIRIT WITHOUT BELIEVING IN THAT SPIRIT. This, you have been dodging as if you were blind and can not see it.

budaatum:

Maybe if I lay it out for you you'd get it.

Shepherd00: I believe in God.

Budaatum: I know God.
How did you get to know Him? You saw Him? Can you show me God? I really want to see him.

budaatum:

You believe the Lord is your shepherd, while I know I am shepherded by God, would be an example. Surely, you believe because your faith is bigger and you are going to heaven, while mine is a tiny mustard seed and I'm going somewhere else, according to you. Thankfully, it is as is written. "By our fruits are we known".
How do you know the Lord is your Shepherd?

My enquiry has been HOW, but you have continuously ignored it. How did you get to know that God is alive and what He says abt Himself is true?
budaatum:

I suggest you stop worrying what God makes of buda and concern yourself with what God makes of Shepherd. .
I am not interested in what God makes of Buda, I am only interested in how Buda got to know God without believing in God.

budaatum:

Neither of us would be there helping God judge the other
This is not about Judgement Buda. If you the Light that is lit and placed in a lamp stand, then you shd shine the light and show people the right way to go, not mislead them into error and damnation.

Seriously, I am not engaging you here for your sake, I only want to point out to 'Whom it May Concern' that you are wrong.

Anyone who comes to God Must BELIEVE THAT HE IS... Hebrews 11:6
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by Shepherd00: 2:21pm On May 11
budaatum:

I'm absolutely certain you believe all you are saying here is not your opinion since God must have made you his mouthpiece.

If I have no light I wonder how you figured I can possibly be following Christ. Or is it darkness that you see in buda?
I know you know what I mean. But if you choose to play games, that's your business. I stand here to say that the Word of God standeth sure and no one can change it.

Buda, anyone who tries to falsify the Word of God and lead people to error is darkness.

And, why aren't you responding to posts but picking tidbits?
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by budaatum: 2:53pm On May 11
Shepherd00:
My question is. HOW DO YOU KNOW A SPIRIT WITHOUT BELIEVING IN THAT SPIRIT. This, you have been dodging as if you were blind and can not see it.
I haven't dodged anything Shepherd. Nor has buda been "everywhere insulting God and Christians", or show evidence for your claim!

You know a spirit (here you go again talking about spirits by the way, next you'd say you never!), when you see spirits, or you can make them up in your head, whichever suits you I guess.

Shepherd00:
How did you get to know Him? You saw Him? Can you show me God? I really want to see him.
By studying the Word, Shepherd, diligently seeking for the Spirit in it over very many decades.

And no, I cannot show you. You are such a special case that only the Lord Jesus Christ can show you how to see the Spirit of the Word as he showed me.

Shepherd00:
How do you know the Lord is your Shepherd?
Ma an pa named me what can loosely be translated to "the Lord is your Shepherd" because it was my great grandfather the Ọba Ọrun's name. He died just before I was born. And, in my days on earth I have found I have been shepherded to the point I am now despite all my rebellion and stubbornness all along. I could have jeopardised myself but the loving God was gently with me and guided me despite myself. That's how I know.

Shepherd00:
My enquiry has been HOW, but you have continuously ignored it. How did you get to know that God is alive and what He says abt Himself is true?
Hmm. By God's Grace is how. In my studies even I have often been amazed at the things revealed to insignificant me. I know it's not that I am that worthy in my own right with all my tiny intellect and mind and searching and being even, so I put it down to God.

God knew what buda had to see to make buda know that what God says about God is true. So God showed it to buda. buda saw it, and buda knew.

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Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by budaatum: 3:02pm On May 11
Shepherd00:

I know you know what I mean. But if you choose to play games, that's your business. I stand here to say that the Word of God standeth sure and no one can change it.

Buda, anyone who tries to falsify the Word of God and lead people to error is darkness.

And, why aren't you responding to posts but picking tidbits?
Those who "falsify the Word of God" produce bad fruits Shepherd, and most people here are way too intelligent to follow bad fruit producers. The Christians amongst us are not even looking for someone to follow because they are fisher's of people in their own right or are praying the Lord make them be.

You "standeth sure". I'm picking the bits that matter.

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Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by budaatum: 3:14pm On May 11
Shepherd00:

I only want to point out to 'Whom it May Concern' that you are wrong.
I thought as much too so "point out to 'Whom it May Concern'" Shepherd.
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by budaatum: 3:20pm On May 11
Shepherd00:

You say categorically that you don't believe in God, and we do not have to believe.
I never categorically said "you don't have to believe", Shepherd, though to be honest, I don't think one should believe some of the things that you believe like your belief that the purpose of the Bible is to believe, but that's your business.

I don't believe because I know.
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by Shepherd00: 3:33pm On May 11
budaatum:
I thought as much too so "point out to 'Whom it May Concern'" Shepherd.
I'm doing exactly that.
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by Shepherd00: 3:41pm On May 11
budaatum:

I never categorically said "you don't have to believe", Shepherd, though to be honest, I don't think one should believe some of the things that you believe like your belief that the purpose of the Bible is to believe, but that's your business.

I don't believe because I know.
Yes, Buda, it is my business. And this is my stance, which I have not pointed out since.

To know God, you must first BELIEVE that He is what Nd who he says He is.

You must believe the Bible which is His Word to be absolute truth.

You must act on what He has commanded at which point encounters will birth conviction which is KNOWING GOD.

YES, I KNOW GOD NOW, but I believed Him first.

You do not intellectually research God without believing In Him. He is a Spirit, not subject to a specimen
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by budaatum: 4:27pm On May 11
Shepherd00:

Yes, Buda, it is my business. And this is my stance, which I have not pointed out since.

To know God, you must first BELIEVE that He is what Nd who he says He is.

You must believe the Bible which is His Word to be absolute truth.

You must act on what He has commanded at which point encounters will birth conviction which is KNOWING GOD.

YES, I KNOW GOD NOW, but I believed Him first.

You do not intellectually research God without believing In Him. He is a Spirit, not subject to a specimen
You really ought to take this up with God Shepherd.
Ask why God made buda a knower and not first a 'believer' and let us know what God tells you.
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by budaatum: 5:09pm On May 11
Shepherd00:

You must act on what He has commanded at which point encounters will birth conviction which is KNOWING GOD.
You can "act on what He has commanded" without believing. If somebody slaps you, or takes your shirt for instance, you can turn the other cheek or give them your coat to test if what Jesus said is true. You did not believe it but were smart enough to at least check and test it first before discarding it. And now that you have tested it and found that it is true, you don't just believe it, you know it is true because you tested and witnessed the truth with your own eyes.

But as Christ said, blessed, even moreso might I add, are those who believe without seeing. If only I too had not been jeopardising myself with my stubbornness! I once was lost but now I'm found and can only thank God for not giving up on me.
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by budaatum: 5:23pm On May 11
Shepherd00:

You do not intellectually research God without believing In Him.
But very many intellectually research God, and some, without believing! Or does everyone not read the Word? Must one believe before reading it? Is it really that impossible to read it, not believe it, check it, find out it is true and therefore know that it is true? It's not exactly that because you now know you believe it any less, you just know it for certain now so don't believe it because you know it for a fact instead of just believing it.
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by JMAN05: 5:48pm On May 11
Shepherd00:

My concern is not about the many believers who do not do His Will. My concern is you saying we do not need to believe in Jesus or His teachings. The Word of God is open to all both saved and unsaved.

And, do you know that the Wisdom you talk about which is having experience, sound knowledge and showing good judgement is believing what the Lord says and acting on it?

'For He who hears the Words of my Sayings and does them not...'.



How do you progress to understanding when you do not first believe?

There were only Five Loaves and 2 fish. but the Master said to His disciples, make them sit down. shouldn't the disciples demand an explanation how 5loaves and 2 fish could feed 5 thousand men women and children not counted?

They shd ve understood how that feat could be performed before going ahead to make the people sit. Or, had they seen Jesus multiply food before?

When Jesus was told that Wine was finished and He asked them to fill the jars with water, shouldn't they have asked for an explanation what foolishness that was?

How did the Women with the Issue of Blood know her flow will cease if she only but grab the Master cloak?

All these people believed first. You can't be Jesus' follower if you don't believe in Him or His Words

I think what the guy is saying in essence is, seek proof before you believe in Jesus and his sayings. There should be basis for your beliefs, not blind faith. But of course, one should have basis for his beliefs.

I think the issue is about semantics which I don't want to go into.

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Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by budaatum: 5:56pm On May 11
JMAN05:


I think what the guy is saying in essence is, seek proof before you believe in Jesus and his sayings. There should be basis for your beliefs, not blind faith. But of course, one should have basis for his beliefs.

I think the issue is about semantics which I don't want to go into.
Thank you. I'm also saying those who believe because they don't yet have proof are more blessed too according to scripture, at least more than those who refuse to contemplate it.

I've also said some beliefs are not worth having so one must learn to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by Shepherd00: 7:59pm On May 11
JMAN05:


I think what the guy is saying in essence is, seek proof before you believe in Jesus and his sayings. There should be basis for your beliefs, not blind faith. But of course, one should have basis for his beliefs.

I think the issue is about semantics which I don't want to go into.
No sir, it's not a semantic issue but context.

If one must seek proof before believing in Jesus and what He teaches, then how can one proof Jesus' claims that He came from Heaven?


The Bible says Jehovah is God, and He is in heaven. what proof can one get before believing that Jehovah is indeed in heaven?

There's nothing like blind faith sir. Look around you and tell me if God is not speaking to you through nature.
Re: Questions For Budaatum: How Can You Follow Jesus Without Believing In Him? by Shepherd00: 8:53pm On May 11
budaatum:

You can "act on what He has commanded" without believing.

Why?

budaatum:

If somebody slaps you, or takes your shirt for instance, you can turn the other cheek or give them your coat to test if what Jesus said is true.
This is a very poor example to use to drive home this point. How do you test Jesus by being slapped?

Let use giving. The Holy Spirit says here that; There is that scattereth, and yet increaseth; and there is that withholdeth more than is meet, but it tendeth to poverty. Proverbs 11:24.
And, Give and it shall be given to you...
How do you know that what Jesus says is true? You know quite well that to have more, you save and accumulate, but Jesus is saying spread out. give out, and you shall increase, how can you test Him without believing that it will happen if you do it?

budaatum:

You did not believe it but were smart enough to at least check and test it first before discarding it.
So you call yourself smart by reading a book written how many thousand years ago by people long dead, you don't believe what they wrote in that book to be true, but you checked and tested their claims then you knew their claims are true. Wait!!! I am the one being stupid here or you?

budaatum:

And now that you have tested it and found that it is true, you don't just believe it, you know it is true because you tested and witnessed the truth with your own eyes.
Give me an example of an account you read in the Bible that you didn't believe, but tested and saw with your eyes to be true.
budaatum:

But as Christ said, blessed, even moreso might I add, are those who believe without seeing. If only I too had not been jeopardising myself with my stubbornness! I once was lost but now I'm found and can only thank God for not giving up on me.
Why did you quote this scripture which Jesus talks about us believing without seeing?

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