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Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by gensteejay(m): 8:16pm On May 28
johnydon22:


No, i am not. I'm simply saying, Religion and scienxe were once indistinguishable from one another.

There is no need for long write-ups, it is a simple observable historical fact as shown on the examples above; Egyptian, Sumerian or even traditional Igbo religion
Ok. Though I don't agree with some of the things you said.
Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by frank317: 8:24pm On May 28
budaatum:

"Believing" is precisely what should not exist! People can be taught to 'know' instead by diligently checking their beliefs. That is the reason that religion, the teaching of what to believe, has evolved into education, the teaching of how to use one's God given brain to check the validity of one's beliefs.


Actually, u have a point

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Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by budaatum: 8:58pm On May 28
johnydon22:

A lot of religions teach Afterlife actually,
The main thing religions teach is 'belief', and to be honest, atheists are disappointing me where this is concerned. Instead of challenging the idea of "believing" in general, they stupidly allow themselves to be bogged down in the detail.

I cannot wait until the atheists realise this and teach the art of reasoning properly. We'd gain a lot from being taught the scientific method of using our brains and our discussions, and existence, would definitely benefit from the upgrade.

This is me begging you all please so we can all evolve. And in Jesus' name am I praying.
Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by budaatum: 9:22pm On May 28
malvisguy212:
take away religion and the ONLY source of knowledge will be science,

Religion is not a "source", but a method of teaching that relies on indoctrination, and indoctrination is not the only method of teaching out there. Besides, no one would reckon much with a teacher of science who tells one what to believe, which is what religion, at least as commonly practised, appears to encourage.

You can give a person a fish, for instance, which is 'religion' telling them what to believe. Or you can teach people to fish for themselves by educating people to use their own brains which is more empowering. And neither is "science" the only knowledge out there or we would not have lessons in history or philosophy.

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Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by Shepherd00: 11:12am On May 29
johnydon22:
Religion: A system/Institution of belief, worship or rituals



A lot of religions teach Afterlife actually, even ancient Egyptian religions is credited with the original idea for judgement after death which Christianity borrowed heavily from when formulating their doctrines.

Even Igbo Traditional Religion also believes and reaches the concept of life after death.
Alright then. I quit. I won't talk about Religion in general. I'm a Christian and that's what I'd talk about.


Godbless
Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by Shepherd00: 11:20am On May 29
frank317:



It seem u quoted me just to teach me what Christianity is all about. I don't know what u expect me to do with that.

Is his tread about what Christianity is all about?

Well, I see one loving his neighbours as himself as a good thing... If this is not a good thing to u, I dont know what being good means to u.
It's not. I wanted a foundation upon which to stand on. I can't go talking abt other religions when all I know abt them is like a man looking through a stained glass. I'd rather talk abt what I know which is Christianity.

If you acknowledge Love for Ones neighbor, then you acknowledge that what you see today in our society is not a true reflection of Christianity, hence, shd not be used as model to judge what it is.
Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by budaatum: 12:34pm On May 29
johnydon22:

I only disagree that without religion, what do we live for? Yea, a lot actually, we live for a lot without religion.
In fact, the only people who "live for religion" are terrorists and suicide bombers and those constantly wailing against their enemies.

Anyone who lives for religion is behaving like the Priest and the Levite whom Christ said "don't be like", and committing the sin of the goats on the left, or ye would be doing unto the least of these here whom ye see and "it would be done unto Me".
Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by johnydon22(m): 2:33pm On May 29
Shepherd00:

Alright then. I quit. I won't talk about Religion in general. I'm a Christian and that's what I'd talk about.


Godbless
Christianity is a religion, so you can still answer the question with christianity as your main point. the premise remains the same.

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Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by Shepherd00: 2:42pm On May 29
johnydon22:
Christianity is a religion, so you can still answer the question with christianity as your main point. the premise remains the same.
No, because your atheist brothers will poo over my answers with some poo like, which god are we talking about? Vishnu or allah and all the other gods?

If anyone asks a question that bothers on Christianity, I'll answer on that bases.
Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by johnydon22(m): 2:45pm On May 29
Shepherd00:

No, because your atheist brothers will poo over my answers with some poo like, which god are we talking about? Vishnu or allah and all the other gods?

If anyone asks a question that bothers on Christianity, I'll answer on that bases.
LOL, we just agreed that you should make Christianity your focal point, whoever asks you such questions as above, we can both agree would be idiotic.

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Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by hayoholla(m): 3:18pm On May 29
Johnnydon, I think in my own view, we should ask which started first, religion or science? During mans earliest time, there was a need to form a school of thought, kind of like a creed that encompass the moral, philosophical and scientific view of which earliest man must follow. Hence , the need for religion. But was it really religion, I don't know. Then many concept easily ecplanied away in science today was vaguely understand by them if I am right. The mentality of if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The Pandora box was yet opened. Also, I think the answer to your question may not be far fetched, if we have to consider and study human brain development for reasoning along the course of human civilizations. This makes me understand that atheism and its like are newer or recent concept, the moment human started to employ the use of logic and reasoning.

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Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by budaatum: 3:28pm On May 29
hayoholla:
Johnnydon, I think in my own view, we should ask which started first, religion or science?
Actually, Genesis 1 was primitive humans' 'scientific attempt' to explain what they observed with their senses, which is what science is. We today, standing on the shoulders of those early primitive giant 'scientists', are just way too arrogant (or most likely too stupid) to understand what they began and clearly informed us to keep on doing.

Or would you like to argue that "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground" is not very clear instruction to do science and be blessed?
Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by hayoholla(m): 3:54pm On May 29
budaatum:

Actually, Genesis 1 was primitive humans' 'scientific attempt' to explain what they observed with their senses, which is what science is. We today, standing on the shoulders of those early primitive giant 'scientists', are just way too arrogant (or most likely too stupid) to understand what they began and clearly informed us to keep on doing..
Exactly my point. I do not subscribe to any religion, but take it or leave it, earliest human were scientists the way they can be or biologically put, the way their brain afforded them to be. They set the precedent.


Or would you like to argue that "[i]Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground
" is not very clear instruction to do science and be blessed?
[/i].
Very well said. Though, I think the religion being practiced today has been kind of watered down, hijacked by whoever or whatever organisation that wish to profit from it and lastly, it has being severely stripped of it scientific side and made into mere work of literature stoically followed by overly religious junkies.
Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by hayoholla(m): 3:55pm On May 29
budaatum:

Actually, Genesis 1 was primitive humans' 'scientific attempt' to explain what they observed with their senses, which is what science is. We today, standing on the shoulders of those early primitive giant 'scientists', are just way too arrogant (or most likely too stupid) to understand what they began and clearly informed us to keep on doing..
Exactly my point. I do not subscribe to any religion, but take it or leave it, earliest human were scientists the way they can be or biologically put, the way their brain afforded them to be. They set the precedent.

Or would you like to argue that "[i]Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground
" is not very clear instruction to do science and be blessed?
[/i].
Very well said. Though, I think the religion being practiced today has been kind of watered down, hijacked by whoever or whatever organisation that wish to profit from it and lastly, it has being severely stripped of it scientific side and made into mere work of literature stoically followed by overly religious junkies.
Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by hayoholla(m): 3:56pm On May 29
budaatum:

Actually, Genesis 1 was primitive humans' 'scientific attempt' to explain what they observed with their senses, which is what science is. We today, standing on the shoulders of those early primitive giant 'scientists', are just way too arrogant (or most likely too stupid) to understand what they began and clearly informed us to keep on doing.
Exaactly my point. I do not subscribe to any religion, but take it or leave it, earliest human were scientists the way they can be or biologically put, the way their brain afforded them to be. They set the precedent.

Or would you like to argue that "[i]Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground
" is not very clear instruction to do science and be blessed?
[/i].
Very well said. Though, I think the religion being practiced today has been kind of watered down, hijacked by whoever or whatever organisation that wish to profit from it and lastly, it has being severely stripped of it scientific side and made into mere work of literature stoically followed by overly religious junkies.

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Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by hayoholla(m): 4:00pm On May 29
[quote author=budaatum post=78830199]
Actually, Genesis 1 was primitive humans' 'scientific attempt' to explain what they observed with their senses, which is what science is. We today, standing on the shoulders of those early primitive giant 'scientists', are just way too arrogant (or most likely too stupid) to understand what they began and clearly informed us to keep on doing.

Exactly my point. I do not subscribe to any religion, but take it or leave it, earliest human were scientists the way they can be or biologically put, the way their brain afforded them to be. They set the precedent.

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Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by budaatum: 5:03pm On May 29
hayoholla:

Very well said. Though, I think the religion being practiced today has been kind of watered down, hijacked by whoever or whatever organisation that wish to profit from it and lastly, it has being severely stripped of it scientific side and made into mere work of literature stoically followed by overly religious junkies.
No, not "stripped of its scientific side", nor "watered down" unless you are measuring by religion as predominantly practised in Nigeria which is indeed watered down. And if you are giving way too much credit to "primitive giant 'science'" except where it is due. I hope you note the contradiction. Though "giants", one does not need to keep the boat after one has crossed the river, which is what one is doing by holding on to ancient 'scientific' beliefs.

It's the inverse, actually, of stripped down. We've built so much on those shoulders that what we've built bears almost no resemblance to the shoulders we've built on. That's why (Nigerian) religionists "junkies" are trying to drag us back into the dark ages, while the non-religionists "junkies" amongst us here too try to drag us into the light of modern existence without really knowing where they drag us to. And we, most of us at least, are in the middle believing or disbelieving and constantly ripping strips off each other unable to square the circle.

It's not uncommon for theists to equate science and modern discovery with "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened.” Yet, many expect to "be fruitful and rule over" without the open 'eyes' of science and despite all the evidence to the contrary!

I guess it's complex, and to be honest, I doubt I have the words yet to fully express what I understand, but Surah Ar-Rum has it that "And of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your languages and your colors. Indeed in that are signs for those of knowledge", and Proverbs has it that "As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another", so I am very hopeful that powerful people are being raised up here. Insha Allah Aleluya amen.

Damn man, do you make hearts leap johnydon22! You are indeed most blessedly amongst us! Thank you again for a wonderfully thought provoking thread as is usual of you!

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Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by johnydon22(m): 6:14pm On May 29
hayoholla:
Johnnydon, I think in my own view, we should ask which started first, religion or science? During mans earliest time, there was a need to form a school of thought, kind of like a creed that encompass the moral, philosophical and scientific view of which earliest man must follow. Hence , the need for religion. But was it really religion, I don't know.
Yes, it was in fact religion. Ancient religion and science were inseparable from one another. Take for instance, in ancient Mesopotamia, when administering the medicine for tooth ache, you'd be required to recite a form of cosmological poem, it was short, but it began from recounting how the universe was created down to the worm that causes toothache - You can see how something as simple as curing tooth ache bears a largely profound spiritual, religious and cosmological significance to them.

Science in its raw form is simply a philosophy of nature, trying to understand the world. These ancient sciences did just that. When on high the heaven had not been named, Firm ground below had not been called by name,
Naught but primordial Apsu, their begetter, (And) Mummu†-Tiamat, she who bore them all, Their waters commingling as a single body;
No reed hut had been matted, no marsh land had appeared, When no gods whatever had been brought into being, Uncalled by name, their destinies undetermined—Then it was that the gods were formed within them.


The Enuma elis

This almost poetic short story up there, attempts to answer the same cosmological question big bang also attempts to answer today, the short comings and limitations around it is from its lack of methodical empiricism.

It is both setting the ground for the fundamentals of their spirituality and answering the question of how we came to be here. Only the priestly class held these knowledges or even studied to find out more, they charted the stars, read the clouds, observed planetary orbits and practiced what you could correctly identify as the beginning of every form of science we have today.

These two only differed in application, while modern science has come up with determined guidelines and methodology, this ancient methods was less methodical. Modern science is an open source pool, ancient science was mystic, assessable only to the priestly class.


Then many concept easily explained away in science today was vaguely understand by them if I am right. The mentality of if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The Pandora box was yet opened. Also, I think the answer to your question may not be far fetched, if we have to consider and study human brain development for reasoning along the course of human civilizations. This makes me understand that atheism and its like are newer or recent concept, the moment human started to employ the use of logic and reasoning.
Humans have always been reasonable beings - i am finding it difficult to understand what you mean by "moment humans started to employ use of logic and reason"

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Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by calculator123(m): 7:57am On May 30
johnydon22:
Why?
the crisis, the issue we face in the world today all boils down to Religion. it has done more harm than good, it has killed our humanity and has made us believe one after world exist while neglecting to live fully in this present one..
Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by johnydon22(m): 8:25am On May 30
calculator123:

the crisis, the issue we face in the world today all boils down to Religion. it has done more harm than good, it has killed our humanity and has made us believe one after world exist while neglecting to live fully in this present one..
Ok, that's one big claim. So, tell me how the issues and crisis we face in this world boils down to religion?

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Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by hayoholla(m): 1:33pm On May 30
johnydon22:
Yes, it was in fact religion. Ancient religion and science were inseparable from one another. Take for instance, in ancient Mesopotamia, when administering the medicine for tooth ache, you'd be required to recite a form of cosmological poem, it was short, but it began from recounting how the universe was created down to the worm that causes toothache - You can see how something as simple as curing tooth ache bears a largely profound spiritual, religious and cosmological significance to them.

Science in its raw form is simply a philosophy of nature, trying to understand the world. These ancient sciences did just that. When on high the heaven had not been named, Firm ground below had not been called by name,
Naught but primordial Apsu, their begetter, (And) Mummu†-Tiamat, she who bore them all, Their waters commingling as a single body;
No reed hut had been matted, no marsh land had appeared, When no gods whatever had been brought into being, Uncalled by name, their destinies undetermined—Then it was that the gods were formed within them.


The Enuma elis

This almost poetic short story up there, attempts to answer the same cosmological question big bang also attempts to answer today, the short comings and limitations around it is from its lack of methodical empiricism.

It is both setting the ground for the fundamentals of their spirituality and answering the question of how we came to be here. Only the priestly class held these knowledges or even studied to find out more, they charted the stars, read the clouds, observed planetary orbits and practiced what you could correctly identify as the beginning of every form of science we have today.

These two only differed in application, while modern science has come up with determined guidelines and methodology, this ancient methods was less methodical. Modern science is an open source pool, ancient science was mystic, assessable only to the priestly class.

Humans have always been reasonable beings - i am finding it difficult to understand what you mean by "moment humans started to employ use of logic and reason"

Well I might be wrong maybe with the wrong use of word " logic" but one word you used above caught my eyes " methodical empiricism " . You also said modern science came with a set of guidelines which was lacking in ancient science. We are saying the same thing, only that I took it further by insinuating that ancient humans who practiced science only knew vaguely what they were doing , maybe that's the reason a cult or secret soceity was built around it, not that they really knew in empirical details how it works. To them, it was like a prizes possession, jealously guarded. Take for example how human discovered fire, might be by accident or whatever means intentional or coincidental, the science behind striking two stone together as a result of friction and heat that produce fire might not really be something they want to fancy to explain. This is why I said in my earlier premise that human beings started using logics and reasoning as a result of evolution of our brain. Don't get me wrong, not that it was not there. It was because part of part of that brain that wants an explanation of how when two stones are striked together to produce fire, was not exercised enough to. Like a consciousness shift. I will say. I hope you get my point

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Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by frank317: 1:49pm On May 30
Shepherd00:

It's not. I wanted a foundation upon which to stand on. I can't go talking abt other religions when all I know abt them is like a man looking through a stained glass. I'd rather talk abt what I know which is Christianity.
Statements like this are the reason why I think religion should go. Christianity is not the only religion that exists. People worship in other modes and somehow we are all affected by someone's foolish irrational decision somewhere.
Last last we must talk about it all, be it ur religion or not.
I hate all these hypocritical statement when we know somewhere somehow u have talked about how boko haram is a menace to the society because of their "messed" up believe.


If you acknowledge Love for Ones neighbor, then you acknowledge that what you see today in our society is not a true reflection of Christianity, hence, shd not be used as model to judge what it is.


In other words true Christianity does not exist anymore, because I have never seen a man who loves his neighbor as himself, not even ur self proclaimed men of God.
Why then the hypocrisy? Why do we waste our time claiming we practicing what we know we cant do.
Let's just abolish it an face reality.

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Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by budaatum: 1:51pm On May 30
frank317:

Why do we waste our time claiming we practicing what we know we cant do.
Let's just abolish it an face reality.
But we can practice it, if we but tried harder! And if we see a need to.
Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by frank317: 1:54pm On May 30
johnydon22:
LOL, we just agreed that you should make Christianity your focal point, whoever asks you such questions as above, we can both agree would be idiotic.

You can imagine how he thinks... He claims he can only talk about the Christian God, yet he is worried that he will be asks which God is he talking about, when could easily answer: the Christian God duh grin

The bottom line is that they just hate questions.
Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by frank317: 1:59pm On May 30
budaatum:

But we can practice it, if we but tried harder! And if we see a need to.

Yes, if we see a need to... Right now I see no need to.

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Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by budaatum: 2:08pm On May 30
frank317:


Yes, if we see a need to... Right now I see no need to.
'You', 'see no need to'. I, on the other hand, look at the state of my country Nigeria and see a need to.

Read my first post in this thread and you might understand what I mean. We cannot build what Tier 4 Abini2012 is showing us without a solid foundation of understanding.
Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by dizon: 3:00pm On May 30
Without religion, there would be no morality and the world would just be a messed up place filled with messed up human beings
Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by Heathen777(m): 6:01pm On May 30
dizon:
Without religion, there would be no morality and the world would just be a messed up place filled with messed up human beings

Not necessarily, different religions have different moral guidelines, and sometimes even condoned unethical practices (read Lev 25: 44 - 46)


Some religious groups would claim their religion is the the truth, but this is to be no more believed than a citizen thinking his nation is the best, because when you are born and raised in a certain group or society, you'll be biased towards it and blind to the inconsistencies and faults surrounding whatever values they hold true.
Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by Heathen777(m): 6:02pm On May 30
Heathen777:


Not necessarily, different religions have different moral guidelines, and sometimes even condoned unethical practices (read Lev 25: 44 - 46)


Some religious groups would claim their religion is the the truth, but this is to be no more believed than a citizen thinking his nation is the best, because when you are born and raised in a certain group or society, you'll be biased towards it and blind to the inconsistencies and faults surrounding whatever beliefs they hold true.
Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by tintingz(m): 7:32pm On May 30
I don't have problem with religious people, but I've problem with dogmas (the bad ones), religious dogmas cannot be updated which still makes majority religious people behave archaic and barbaric.

I would prefer a world without religious dogmas!

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Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by budaatum: 7:34pm On May 30
Heathen777:


Not necessarily, different religions have different moral guidelines, and sometimes even condoned unethical practices (read Lev 25: 44 - 46)
Seriously? Who practises slavery in their religion today?
Re: Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? by tintingz(m): 7:36pm On May 30
dizon:
Without religion, there would be no morality and the world would just be a messed up place filled with messed up human beings
There can be morality without religion, some countries are less religious and are more peaceful than some religious countries.

Even animals show morality within their own territory.

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