FOLYKAZE:


I would have defined Gaia to you if you were an ignostist. Ignosticism requires a good, non-controversial definition of god before arguing on its existence.

You are but rather an atheist. According to you, We hold that no god/god have been sufficiently demonstrated to exist. Your statement indicates you know and understand concepts of God, and buttress a positive assertion that God doesn't exist.

Someone asked you to read about Gaia instead of asking me unnecessary question. I have already told you what/who Gaia is. General understanding of Gaia is that in ancient Greek culture, they worship it as a deity. If you claim deity do not exist, that simply mean Gaia does exist. Isn't it?

I gave you an illustration which you refused to answer. Lemme answer it for you. No, saying I have not seen the elephant is not the same as saying it doesn't exist. Similarly saying I have seen no clear demonstration of any god or gods is not a positive claim that no god or gods exist. Is that clear enough?

As for definitions, it remains imperative each god claimant defines the god they claim exists because it happens that the claims have as much difference as the people who make the claims. Take gensteejay's Gaia, it no long exists on this earth so possibly it is beyond our investigation. Yours on the other hand seems to have an active presence but that's me presuming it is different so you would do well to clear that up.

I don't claim to be unable to understand any god concept but I also do not work in the presumption that I know the god or gods you claim to exist, it is why the question is always asked which god?

FOLYKAZE:


You are a great disciple of Otem. Thanks for your input

Student is more appropriate. I am a student of history and an ardent seeker of knowledge.

LordReed:


I gave you an illustration which you refused to answer. Lemme answer it for you. No, saying I have not seen the elephant is not the same as saying it doesn't exist. Similarly saying I have seen no clear demonstration of any god or gods is not a positive claim that no god or gods exist. Is that clear enough?

As for definitions, it remains imperative each god claimant defines the god they claim exists because it happens that the claims have as much difference as the people who make the claims. Take gensteejay's Gaia, it no long exists on this earth so possibly it is beyond our investigation. Yours on the other hand seems to have an active presence but that's me presuming it is different so you would do well to clear that up.

I don't claim to be unable to understand any god concept but I also do not work in the presumption that I know the god or gods you claim to exist, it is why the question is always asked which god?

You just need read more. You, atheists, are as close-minded as the religionists you criticise. Read more and broaden your horizons.

The gods and goddesses have not been existing on this planet for quite a very long time. They are dead.

But that does not mean they long no exist in some other parts of the universe. The earth is an extremely tiny part of the universe, which makes the planet plays a tiny part in the grand scheme of things.

Death is an illusion as our life in a physical world is a projected/simulated reality. The real world is where our spirits reside and evolve to after death.

Dead people still exist on other planes. And some still operate on this planet.

I suppose all this is nonsense to you.

Just read more to grow and be open-minded.

FOLYKAZE:


Read this thread

https://www.nairaland.com/135166/ori-head#2274041

Ok, thanks.

malvisguy212:
religion has help to inspired man to do Good ,religion is the ultimate source of HOPE , removed religion and the ultimate question will be WHAT DO WE LIVE FOR ? I believe people will do terrible things with or without religion, take a look at the Soviet Union, populated with mostly atheist, even there name seems UNITY but they slaughter there own people. and what about north Korea ? I believed if atheism hold ground just like religion the Human Race will be Long gone by now.

non sense!!! Give me proof of the SU being an Atheist majority state. Yes the government was on the match to eradicate religion but it never worked. And this had nothing to do with religion because i can give you a long list of religious leaders who were murderers and what you wld call evil. Starting from you dear Moses in the bible to Joshua, to David etc. Hope you know why God was angry with Saul? Cos he was not evil and senseless enough.

Back to the topic. A world without religion is impossible so no need wishing, it was and is an inevitable part of our societal evolution

FOLYKAZE:


I would have defined Gaia to you if you were an ignostist. Ignosticism requires a good, non-controversial definition of god before arguing on its existence.

You are but rather an atheist. According to you, We hold that no god/god have been sufficiently demonstrated to exist. Your statement indicates you know and understand concepts of God, and buttress a positive assertion that God doesn't exist.

Someone asked you to read about Gaia instead of asking me unnecessary question. I have already told you what/who Gaia is. General understanding of Gaia is that in ancient Greek culture, they worship it as a deity. If you claim deity do not exist, that simply mean Gaia does exist. Isn't it?

only ignorants reference Gaia. What is gaia when the earth is not even 1/10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 of the whole cosmos?

gensteejay:

You just need read more. You, atheists, are as close-minded as the religionists you criticise. Read more and broaden your horizons.

The gods and goddesses have not been existing on this planet for quite a very long time. They are dead.

But that does not mean they long no exist in some other parts of the universe. The earth is an extremely tiny part of the universe, which makes the planet plays a tiny part in the grand scheme of things.

Death is an illusion as our life in a physical world is a projected/simulated reality. The real world is where our spirits reside and evolve to after death.

Dead people still exist on other planes. And some still operate on this planet.

I suppose all this is nonsense to you.

Just read more to grow and be open-minded.

How does reading prove that the gods you say are dead exist? Your gods have moved to a place that we have no way of investigating and I even allowed for the possibility of their existence so what is closed minded about that?

I have said once and I will say it again, stories are not enough to prove gods, you going to need more substantial proof than that. I don't believe in Big Foot or Loch Ness monster because I have not seen substantial proof that they exist yet I have read a lot about them.

LordReed:


How does reading prove that the gods you say are dead exist? Your gods have moved to a place that we have no way of investigating and I even allowed for the possibility of their existence so what is closed minded about that?

I have said once and I will say it again, stories are not enough to prove gods, you going to need more substantial proof than that. I don't believe in Big Foot or Loch Ness monster because I have not seen substantial proof that they exist yet I have read a lot about them.

They are not my gods. I suppose I am engaging an intelligent mind.

Let's close this chapter.
Time will make all truths known.

Only a handful of nairalanders know history, including the history of Nigeria, our country. So I am not surprised when I see some wanton display of ignorance here.

HardMirror:
non sense!!! Give me proof of the SU being an Atheist majority state. Yes the government was on the match to eradicate religion but it never worked. And this had nothing to do with religion because i can give you a long list of religious leaders who were murderers and what you wld call evil. Starting from you dear Moses in the bible to Joshua, to David etc. Hope you know why God was angry with Saul? Cos he was not evil and senseless enough.

Back to the topic. A world without religion is impossible so no need wishing, it was and is an inevitable part of our societal evolution

so the Soviet union are not majority atheists but are able to murder millions of Christians ? it's been long I Read your joke, you are a great writer .

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2017/oct/26/why-the-soviet-attempt-to-stamp-out-religion-failed

gensteejay:

They are not my gods. I suppose I am engaging an intelligent mind.

Let's close this chapter.
Time will make all truths known.

It's just an expression, faster than typing "the gods you claim to exist". I am not implying you worship them or anything of the sort.

gensteejay:

You just need read more. You, atheists, are as close-minded as the religionists you criticise. Read more and broaden your horizons.

The gods and goddesses have not been existing on this planet for quite a very long time. They are dead.

But that does not mean they long no exist in some other parts of the universe. The earth is an extremely tiny part of the universe, which makes the planet plays a tiny part in the grand scheme of things.

Death is an illusion as our life in a physical world is a projected/simulated reality. The real world is where our spirits reside and evolve to after death.

Dead people still exist on other planes. And some still operate on this planet.

I suppose all this is nonsense to you.

Just read more to grow and be open-minded.

Reading more is one thing, getting the impression that what you read is true is an entirely different thing.

You asked him to read more but didn't show how he could tell the material you recommend is likely to be true.

malvisguy212:
so the Soviet union are not majority atheists but are able to murder millions of Christians ? it's been long I Read your joke, you are a great writer .

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2017/oct/26/why-the-soviet-attempt-to-stamp-out-religion-failed

and yet you call my post a joke? Was moses an atheist, what about David and all the murderers you celebrate in your holy book? Have you heard anything about the spanish inquisition? The crusades? Sure they were all from atheists right?

HardMirror:
and yet you call my post a joke? Was moses an atheist, what about David and all the murderers you celebrate in your holy book? Have you heard anything about the spanish inquisition? The crusades? Sure they were all from atheists right?

isn't I wonderful that little Israel defeated the mighty Egyptian to free themselves from slavery ? what if pharroah allowed the Israel to go, would there be killing ?

from Genesis , God warn the amalakites but they wouldn't listen, from Genesis to first king is about 400 years, is 400 years not enough time for you to repent ?

you should organized a night of thousand laugh, you will make money, you are a great comedian.

johnydon22:


Reading more is one thing, getting the impression that what you read is true is an entirely different thing.

I tend to avoid arguments with atheists because of statements like this.

There are thousands of gods and goddesses in history. Are you saying because you're an atheist we should wish not a single one of these deities existed and are/were worshipped at one point in history?

If one makes this sort of claims (doubting their existence and contributions to human history) when discussing about historians, philosophers, explorers who are long gone, the intelligence of such a person is highly questionable.

And the same thing applies to a person doubting whether those gods and goddesses really lived on earth at one point in history.

No one alive today has met Columbus (an Italian explorer), Mungo Park, Pletomy, etc. but only unlettered folks don't know about or doubt their existence.

And we all heard stories about them in books, movies, and other means.

johnydon22:


You asked him to read more but didn't show how he could tell the material you recommend is likely to be true.

I have not recommended any material to him or any other atheist. This sort of things (research) is a personal endeavour.

A smart person knows how to critically look at contents of books, articles, etc. to determine the veracity of the author's claims.

malvisguy212:
isn't I wonderful that little Israel defeated the mighty Egyptian to free themselves from slavery ? what if pharroah allowed the Israel to go, would there be killing ?

from Genesis , God warn the amalakites but they wouldn't listen, from Genesis to first king is about 400 years, is 400 years not enough time for you to repent ?

you should organized a night of thousand laugh, you will make money, you are a great comedian.

who is talking about egypt here. You really want us to pretend like we dont know what genocide is? Pls list the tribes god commanded moses to wipe out here. Asking them no show no mercy. How many tribes was that again? You want to wave the genocides committed by you bible heroes. Very funny. What about the crusades and spanish inquisition? And what is funny about my posts? Are they not true. You must be daft to think the serious cases i raised are a joke. You keep insisting it is a joke. What really is funny here? You are supporting genocide on one hand and you say i am a comedian for bringing your attention to 'evils' committed in the name of your god? No need replying you anymore. You guys just aint honest and wld do anything to ridicule truth.

malvisguy212:
isn't I wonderful that little Israel defeated the mighty Egyptian to free themselves from slavery ? what if pharroah allowed the Israel to go, would there be killing ?

from Genesis , God warn the amalakites but they wouldn't listen, from Genesis to first king is about 400 years, is 400 years not enough time for you to repent ?

you should organized a night of thousand laugh, you will make money, you are a great comedian.

There is not one single evidence the Israelites were enslaved in Egypt, not one.

LordReed:


There is not one single evidence the Israelites were enslaved in Egypt, not one.

lol. but there is evidence that moses committed genocide, right ? there is evidence that David killed those people ? right ?

HardMirror:
who is talking about egypt here. You really want us to pretend like we dont know what genocide is? Pls list the tribes god commanded moses to wipe out here. Asking them no show no mercy. How many tribes was that again? You want to wave the genocides committed by you bible heroes. Very funny. What about the crusades and spanish inquisition? And what is funny about my posts? Are they not true. You must be daft to think the serious cases i raised are a joke. You keep insisting it is a joke. What really is funny here? You are supporting genocide on one hand and you say i am a comedian for bringing your attention to 'evils' committed in the name of your god? No need replying you anymore. You guys just aint honest and wld do anything to ridicule truth.

the Canaanite first attack the Israelites in the desert . okay, you know what ? starting from Genesis , explained the story for us, if you are sincere , you will see were this People did abominable things

malvisguy212:
the Canaanite first attack the Israelites in the desert . okay, you know what ? starting from Genesis , explained the story for us, if you are sincere , you will see were this People did abominable things

dont forget that i dont believe in your god. So as far as i am concerned using 'abominable things' to justify the mass murder supervised by moses aron Joshua and caleb is a waste. God warning them for 400 years is all gibberish. It is still murder. I guess islamic extremist are justified to wipe out all christians and infidels since they have been waring use for over 1400 years now right?

LordReed:


There is not one single evidence the Israelites were enslaved in Egypt, not one.

that is not even the issue here. But how many tribes did their god order the isrealites to wipe out? He is dodging that and also dodging the crusades and spanish inquisition. I guess they were committed by atheists

malvisguy212:
lol. but there is evidence that moses committed genocide, right ? there is evidence that David killed those people ? right ?

There is no evidence of a Moses either. Why these stories are referenced is as a way to show you that your belief in an absolute morality or a god that espouses such is bunk not because we believe they are true.

HardMirror:
that is not even the issue here. But how many tribes did their god order the isrealites to wipe out? He is dodging that and also dodging the crusades and spanish inquisition. I guess they were committed by atheists

Yep. I just wanted to show him that miraculous stories of the deliverance from slavery is not a way out either.

gensteejay:

I tend to avoid arguments with atheists because of statements like this.

Good for you. But i must ask, statements like what? Like telling you there is a distinction between reading and knowing what you are reading to be true?

I'm beginning to think there is an irony in your chastising LordReed for his supposed misused intellect.

There are thousands of gods and goddesses in history. Are you saying because you're an atheist we should wish not a single one of these deities existed and are/were worshipped at one point in history?

Nope, these are your own words not mine. I didn't even imply them.

And what exactly does this has to do with my reply to you?

If one makes this sort of claims (doubting their existence and contributions to human history) when discussing about historians, philosophers, explorers who are long gone, the intelligence of such a person is highly questionable.

And the same thing applies to a person doubting whether those gods and goddesses really lived on earth at one point in history.

Are you replying someone else? Because there is absolutely nothing connecting this reply to my statement above.

It is almost like you are replying some other arguments in your mind and not mine.

No one alive today has met Columbus (an Italian explorer), Mungo Park, Pletomy, etc. but only unlettered folks don't know about or doubt their existence.

And we all heard stories about them in books, movies, and other means.

It wouldn't be unreasonable to doubt their existence either or require more concrete substantiation to the story attributed to them.

You aren't still saying anything.

I have not recommended any material to him or any other atheist. This sort of things (research) is a personal endeavour.

Research when used this way is a weird concept. What do you mean research? How do you establish the validity of your research material? Searching for information on Google and YouTube? Is that how truth is established?

A smart person knows how to critically look at contents of books, articles, etc. to determine the veracity of the author's claims.

This is my question: You asked him to read more but didn't show how he could tell the material you recommend is likely to be true.

Which you could answered simply without going through the trouble of writing such long reply that didn't even attempt to answer the question.

You seem very "smart", my comment was asking to know how to could establish the credibility of the things you read

Indulde me, assume i am not smart enough, help me understand how you deternine the veracity of an author's claims.

johnydon22:
Research when used this way is a weird concept. What do you mean research? How do you establish the validity of your research material? Searching for information on Google and YouTube? Is that how truth is established?

Yes, that's one the ways to do so and Google, YouTube, etc. are only media (means) of getting such info. It's the content of that information, logic and facts (historical, scientific) in it that determine its veracity, not the medium.

johnydon22:

Indulde me, assume i am not smart enough, help me understand how you deternine the veracity of an author's claims.

I don't have the luxury of time for that. I am not on a soul-winning mission like religionists and you knowing/admitting that the God Almighty exists and is existence itself, doesn't add a single kobo to my account.

Time will make all truths known. I'm not interested in this argument any longer.

gensteejay:

Yes, that's one the ways to do so and Google, YouTube, etc. are only media (means) of getting such info. It's the content of that information, logic and facts (historical, scientific) in it that determine its veracity not the medium.

You are still not saying anything. How do you establish that a content is true?

I don't have the luxury of time for that.

You have already spent too much time on this for this statement to be true.

I am not on a soul-winning mission like religionists and you knowing/admitting that the God Almighty exists and is existence itself, doesn't add a single kobo to my account.

You are now assuming to know my mission?

Wow, you are not just intelligent but a psychic too and i didn't know.

Time will make all truths known.

LOL, time is short. Jesus has been coming soon for 2000 years now, so i trust you'd understand when i don't take such ambiguous misplaced statement such as yours serious.

I'm not interested in this argument any longer.

Were we arguing? I didn't realize that.

My questions were simple and that's all i care about.

There is no argument here other than the one you are creating in your mind in order to avoid simple questions.

LordReed, HardMirror. I remembered one incident that happened in a village, I forgot the name of this village. my dad went for evangelism in this village ( almost 10 years back ) as he was preaching to the villagers ,house to house, each home he preach and left, two women will enter the house he left and speak bad about my dad and the Gospel, that how the women continuing doing . my dad sleep in the village till the next morning, as he was preparing to leave , many of the villagers came and meet my dad, they want to become Christians.

so in spit of how the women criticized the Gospel. the villagers still accept and converted. THE GOSPEL PREVAILED . so keep it up boys. thank you.

johnydon22:
You are still not saying anything. How do you establish that a content is true?

By looking for inconsistencies, errors in scientific, historical facts, contradictory claims. By reading as many accounts as possible.

johnydon22:


LOL, time is short.
Jesus has been coming soon for 2000 years now, so i trust you'd understand when i don't take such ambiguous misplaced statement such as yours serious.

Who cares? How do you think your atheistic convictions affect me as a person?

Yesterday night and this morning, I only took part briefly in an argument between LordReed and FOLYKAZE for the sake of non-atheists who are also irreligious that are on this thread or will check it in the future.

johnydon22:


Were we arguing? I didn't realize that.

Yes, since atheists mostly care about winning arguments, they don't think deeply about things they say, whether they are reasonable or not, to win arguments. That's why engaging in such arguments is a waste of time.

gensteejay:

By looking for inconsistencies, errors in scientific, historical facts, contradictory claims. By reading as many accounts as possible.

There, isn't this better?

Who cares? How do you think your atheistic convictions affect me as a person?

Never said it did, replying arguments in your head again?

Yesterday night and this morning, I only took part briefly in an argument between LordReed and FOLYKAZE for the sake of non-atheists who are also irreligious that are on this thread or will check it in the future.

So, you do have a mission then? Lol

Yes, since atheists mostly care about winning arguments,

Assuming again i see? This is why you tend to argue wrongly.

I asked a question, which is a tool for further understanding, you took it as an argument and started arguing with yourself without answering the question.

For someone who wants atheists to think more deeply, you aren't doing a good job yourself.

they don't think deeply about things they say, whether they are reasonable or not, to win arguments. That's why engaging in such arguments is a waste of time.

I don't see any difference between you and these atheists you describe judging from your reaction to my question.

malvisguy212:
LordReed, HardMirror. I remembered one incident that happened in a village, I forgot the name of this village. my dad went for evangelism in this village ( almost 10 years back ) as he was preaching to the villagers ,house to house, each home he preach and left, two women will enter the house he left and speak bad about my dad and the Gospel, that how the women continuing doing . my dad sleep in the village till the next morning, as he was preparing to leave , many of the villagers came and meet my dad, they want to become Christians.

so in spit of how the women criticized the Gospel. the villagers still accept and converted. THE GOSPEL PREVAILED . so keep it up boys. thank you.

Yes and Islam has 1.8billion followers when are you going to convert to Islam?

gensteejay:


Yesterday night and this morning, I only took part briefly in an argument between LordReed and FOLYKAZE

Why are simple questions viewed as arguments? One asks a question requesting clarification and you assume it is an argument says more about you than it does about me.