El Elohe Yahshrael!

When are the homosexuality apologists going to get it?

Two people of the same sex, who are in same-sex relationship, may not be hurting anyone directly, they are, however, hurting the environment, and by that, hurting the earth. Any act that hurts the earth also hurts both the perpetrator of such act and the other inhabitants of the earth. Whatever hurts the earth, hurts its inhabitants.

Isaiah 24: 4 The earth dries up and withers,
    the world languishes and withers,
    the heavens languish with the earth.
5 The earth is defiled by its people;
    they have disobeyed the laws,
violated the statutes
    and broken the everlasting covenant.

So, it does not matter whether you believe the existence of the supernatural or not, the truth remains. The portion of Scripture given above was stated thousands of years ago. There are particular natural orders of things. The violation of any of them, always comes with consequences. The natural order of sexual relationship is between a man and a woman and scripturally sanctioned only between a husband and his wife.

When the earth suffers, the heavens also suffer. The plants, the animals - both on land and in the waters - all suffer the consequences of the abominable activities of humans.

Isaiah 24: See, YHVH is going to lay waste the earth
    and devastate it;
he will ruin its face
    and scatter its inhabitants—
2 it will be the same
    for priest as for people,
    for the master as for his servant,
    for the mistress as for her servant,
    for seller as for buyer,
    for borrower as for lender,
    for debtor as for creditor.
3 The earth will be completely laid waste
    and totally plundered.
YHVH has spoken this word.


At the appropriate time, the Creator of the heavens, the land, the seas and everything in them will annihilate the earth and its inhabitants.

So, you see, the abomination called homosexuality, is the chief polluter and defiler of the earth. It is one of the abominable acts that will lead to the destruction of the earth.

Abstain from the abominable and detestable act of homosexuality. It pollutes and defiles the earth.


El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu YAH!

Lol... you guys are just funny. You make quotations from your holy book and then you turn around to say it's not a matter of whether one believes or not. How do you expect Mr. A to conform to your holy book if he doesn't believe in it? So you're judging everyone using your Bible as a standard? You want to judge someone who doesn't necessarily practice your religion using your holy book as the ultimate yardstick? How are you different from bokoharam? How does the fact that the Bible was written one million years ago add value to your argument? Was it impossible for people to be wrong back then? The Bible says it hurts the earth, so everyone is supposed to believe it hurts the earth and that is it? No explanation, no logic? What did your own culture say about same sex relationship before Christianity was forced down the throats of your ancestors? The same people that introduced homophobia using religion as a tool have realized thier mistake, but you've decided to live with it because the black man only cares about discrimination whe he's on the recieving end.

Etrange, it is ok if you don't want to believe the Scriptures and what they have said and have to say. It is your prerogative now that you are still here in this present time.


On the emboldened:

The abominable act of homosexuality was never part of my culture. It is still not part of culture. Was/is homosexuality part of your own culture?

I am glad you didn't say that they are using the Scriptures to justify or approve of the abominable act of homosexuality. The scriptural views on the detestable act of homosexuality have never changed and will never change. It remains an abomination for ever.

Further info:

Those who were used by the Owner of Scriptures to bring them to our ancestors are long dead.

elated177:
Etrange, it is ok if you don't want to believe the Scriptures and what they have said and have to say. It is your prerogative now that you are still here in this present time.


On the emboldened:

The abominable act of homosexuality was never part of my culture. It is still not part of culture. Was/is homosexuality part of your own culture?

I am glad you didn't say that they are using the Scriptures to justify or approve of the abominable act of homosexuality. The scriptural views on the detestable act of homosexuality have never changed and will never change. It remains an abomination for ever.

Further info:

Those who were used by the Owner of Scriptures to bring them to our ancestors are long dead.

It's okay if your religion is against homosexuality. What is not okay is you using your religion to judge others. The logic of "my religion does not permit this, therefore you must not do it" makes zero sense. Regardless of how attached one is to his religion, he must not lose sight of the fact that there others who either have other religions or are completely irreligious. You've already said they're not hurting anyone. You don't have to go out of your way to drag them or jail them like in Nigeria. If you believe being gay is bad, don't be gay. However, let others who believe otherwise be themselves. Your Bible tells you they're destroying the world, yet none of the major wars in the past was caused by gay people. These wars were mostly caused by men who don't know how to coexist with people of different opinions, lifestyles or features. So you know what really destroyed the earth? Your inability to live and let live. The world would be a better place if you just do you and let others be.

It was never part of your culture? Ok, let's get this straight. When I asked what your culture said about it, I wasn't really asking if there were gay men back then. That's because the existence of gay people is not peculiar to any culture or time. Gay people have been in existing for as long as man has been around. What changes over time is people's disposition towards them. So the question I was asking is, have you ever heard any story of gay people being attacked in those days? Homophobia was imported into Africa by Europeans. Many African cultures were not homophobic before the advent of the white man.

elated177:
El Elohe Yahshrael!

When are the homosexuality apologists going to get it?

Two people of the same sex, who are in same-sex relationship, may not be hurting anyone directly, they are, however, hurting the environment, and by that, hurting the earth. Any act that hurts the hurts also hurts both the perpetrator of such act and the others. Whatever hurts the earth, hurts its inhabitants.

Isaiah 24: 4 The earth dries up and withers,
    the world languishes and withers,
    the heavens languish with the earth.
5 The earth is defiled by its people;
    they have disobeyed the laws,
violated the statutes
    and broken the everlasting covenant.

So, it does not matter whether you believe the existence of the supernatural or not, the truth remains. The portion of Scripture given above was stated thousands of years ago. There are particular natural orders of things. The violation of any of them, always comes with consequences. The natural order of sexual relationship is between a man and a woman and scripturally sanctioned only between a husband and his wife.

When the earth suffers, the heavens also suffer. The plants, the animals - both on land and in the waters - all suffer the consequences of the abominable activities of humans.

Isaiah 24: See, YHVH is going to lay waste the earth
    and devastate it;
he will ruin its face
    and scatter its inhabitants—
2 it will be the same
    for priest as for people,
    for the master as for his servant,
    for the mistress as for her servant,
    for seller as for buyer,
    for borrower as for lender,
    for debtor as for creditor.
3 The earth will be completely laid waste
    and totally plundered.
YHVH has spoken this word.


At the appropriate time, the Creator of the heavens, the land, the seas and everything in them will annihilate the earth and its inhabitants.

So, you see, the abomination called homosexuality, is the chief polluter and defiler of the earth. It is one of the abominable acts that will lead to the destruction of the earth.

Abstain from the abominable and detestable act of homosexuality. It pollutes and defiles the earth.


El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu YAH!

Who is responsible for sexual attraction?

Exactly how 2 people having sex in public is offensive to everyone normal person is how homosexuality is offensive to normal people. It is no different from beastiality.

tctrills:

Who is responsible for sexual attraction?

Which sexual attraction? Or rather sexual attraction to what?

Any way all uncleanness and lust and things against nature come from the evil inside you, which you love.

etrange:
. What is not okay is you using your religion to judge others.

We judge others based on natural laws and unfortunately our religion is founded upon Natural Law.

And under Natural Law, homosexuals are guilty and condemnable.

etrange:

So the question I was asking is, have you ever heard any story of gay people being attacked in those days?

Yes! They were immediately killed when caught in the past

www.reuters.com
Russia's gays fear more violence after brutal murder
13 May 2013 — They beat him. They shoved beer bottles in his anus. They tried to set him on fire. Then they crushed his head with a ..."

etrange:

Homophobia was imported into Africa by Europeans. Many African cultures were not homophobic before the advent of the white man.

This is not true. Africans did not have any need for homophobia because we were not under the Curse in Romans 1:24/ 27.

Homophobia is nature's way of saying "destroy this abomination quickly lest evil and curses come."

But now the cursed has transmitted their curses to Africa and now our blessed Africa is now cursed.

Dtruthspeaker:


We judge others based on natural laws and unfortunately our religion is founded upon Natural Law.

And under Natural Law, homosexuals are guilty and condemnable.



Yes! They were immediately killed when caught in the past

www.reuters.com
Russia's gays fear more violence after brutal murder
13 May 2013 — They beat him. They shoved beer bottles in his anus. They tried to set him on fire. Then they crushed his head with a ..."



This is not true. Africans did not have any need for homophobia because we were not under the Curse in Romans 1:24/ 27.

Homophobia is nature's way of saying "destroy this abomination quickly lest evil and curses come."

But now the cursed has transmitted their curses to Africa and now our blessed Africa is now cursed.

Hhmm... Your religion is no not based any natural laws, sir. In fact, that statement violates the definition of religion. When you call on the Bible to substantiate your argument, it makes it difficult to have a chat with you. You just can't have a conversation with someone of a different religion using your Bible as a basis. It makes zero sense. I don't know why you guys don't see that. There's nothing to discuss if you can't set your religion aside. When we all start viewing the world through the lense of our respective religions, it begets crises. Bokoharam, ISIS, etc. came about as a result of people not being able coexist with people of different beliefs. The fact that we're educated means we should know when to stick with our religion without forcing it down the throats of others.

Meanwhile, I said there was no homophobia in Africa before the advent of the white man. I don't see how homophobia in Russia in 2013 answers that. Africa had gay people before the white man. The Yoruba word for a gay person predates the advent of the white man. Africa (and some other cultures around the world) had no need for homophobia because there was nothing in ATR that antagonized gay people.

Discrimination of any kind is never nature's way of communicating. Discrimination is man-made. It is born out of man's inability to accommodate differences. If you want to protect nature, plant trees, makes laws to control hunting, use green energy, etc. Stop killing people and saying you're protecting nature. It's just not logical.

Dtruthspeaker:


Which sexual attraction? Or rather sexual attraction to what?

Any way all uncleanness and lust and things against nature come from the evil inside you, which you love.

So you really think that the biology of sexual attraction is evil. Humm I see.

tctrills:

So you really think that the biology of sexual attraction is evil. Humm I see.

As I said 'all uncleanness and lust and things against nature"

Dtruthspeaker:


As I said 'all uncleanness and lust and things against nature"

We both agree that uncleanness is against God but that was not my question. My question was about sexual attraction. Or is it a sin to be sexually attracted to someone?

When we tell you that you must belong to the global family of the house of faith where each member is subjected to the same line of thought regarding what the scriptures say {John 17:22} you will say it's not necessary now you have to deal with the fact that your book is of no relevance to everyone {2Thessalonians 3:2} because they don't see it as the word of the supreme being which should influence their thoughts! Hebrews 4:12

So continue arguing with them when true disciples of Christ have our own global family of peace loving worshipers under one umbrella! Isaiah 2:2-4 compare to Zephaniah 3:9

tctrills:
We both agree that uncleanness is against God but that was not my question. My question was about sexual attraction. Or is it a sin to be sexually attracted to someone?

Hence my question which sexual attraction? Is it the clean and proper one or the unclean and improper one?

And I addressed the unclean and improper one.

Dtruthspeaker:


Hence my which sexual attraction? Is it the clean and proper one or the unclean and improper one?

And I addressed the unclean and improper one.

When you ask which sexual attraction it makes no sense. There is only one standard definition of sexual attraction. But if you have another definition please teach

tctrills:
When you ask which sexual attraction it makes no sense. There is only one standard definition of sexual attraction. But if you have another definition please teach

You have already agreed that there is uncleanness, therefore, there is a clean sexual attraction and there is an unclean one. hence, which one!

And the mere fact that you keep dodging it, has clearly settled it.

Dtruthspeaker:


You have already agreed that there is uncleanness, therefore, there is a clean sexual attraction and there is an unclean one. hence, which one!

And the mere fact that you keep dodging it, has clearly settled it.

There is nothing like unclean sexual attraction. Being sexually attracted to someone is not a sin or unclean. It's a very healthy and natural thing.

Tctriils, who do you think is responsible for sexual attraction?

Etrange, there are also spiritual causes of wars.

Two people who are in same-sex relationship may not be causing harm to anyone directly, but the abominable and unnatural act defiles the earth. When the earth is defiled, who suffers it? So, you see, etrange, homosexuality is a dangerous act. It constitutes danger to both the perpetrators and the others. This is simple to understand.

What if a person decides to pollute the only source of drinking water in his/her community, should he/she be allowed to do him/her?

What would my culture say about something that was never part of it? Such an act would have been considered strange and those who were caught in it dealt with. In fact, such an act was unheard of. We have names for many things, but there is no name for homosexuality in my language.

Homosexuality has been in existence since time immemorial, so have the evil spirits.


Can you mention some of the African cultures that weren't homophobic?

And tctrills also claims to be a follower of the Scriptures of YHVH Almighty and doesn't believe that there are unnatural sexual relationships or attractions. Wow!

elated177:
And tctrills also claims to be a follower of the Scriptures of YHVH Almighty and doesn't believe that there are unnatural sexual relationships or attractions. Wow!

If you choose to quote me please do it right. I believe there is unnatural sexual relationship. Stop being a little liar.

elated177:
Etrange, there are also spiritual causes of wars.

Two people who are in same-sex relationship may not be causing harm to anyone directly, but the abominable and unnatural act defiles the earth. When the earth is defiled, who suffers it? So, you see, etrange, homosexuality is a dangerous act. It constitutes danger to both the perpetrators and the others. This is simple to understand.

What if a person decides to pollute the only source of drinking water in his/her community, should he/she be allowed to do him/her?

What would my culture say about something that was never part of it? Such an act would have been considered strange and those who were caught in it dealt with. In fact, such an act was unheard of. We have names for many things, but there is no name for homosexuality in my language.

Homosexuality has been in existence since time immemorial, so have the evil spirits.


Can you mention some of the African cultures that weren't homophobic?

I see. It defiles the earth, it pollutes the earth, it's abominable, etc. These are the things you've been saying. The question is, without making reference to the Bible, how does two the idea of two people of the same gender falling love defile your earth? I see how polluting the source of drinking water in a community affects everyone. But how is that analogy a premise to your conclusion that homophobia is good thing? How do you suffer when Mr. A kisses Mr. B?

When I asked what your culture said about homosexuality, I mean what was the disposition of your people towards gay men and women back then. If those caught in act were dealt with like you said, it would mean your culture said it was bad. However, that wasn't the case. We heard stories of people killing twins, we heard stories of people fighting over lands, we heard stories evil step mothers and co-wives, we heard stories of witches, etc. But we never heard any story of gay people being beaten or jailed or exiled. There was no evidence of homophobia before colonization. And when I say your culture, I mean the African culture in general. In fact, the fact that you referenced the Bible as the basis of your argument simply shows that homophobia does not predate the introduction of the Bible to Africa.

Live and let live.

The point where I said that there were particular natural orders of things escaped your attention, I suppose.

I cannot talk about nature, natural phenomena and the laws that govern them without consulting and making references to my Scriptures. My Scriptures govern how I live my life and my relationship with other humans and my environment. I cannot be separated from my Scriptures. Asking me not to make references to my Scriptures is tantamount to asking a workman not to work with his tools.

YaHVeH Almighty, the Supreme Being and the Creator of the heavens, the earth, the seas and everything in them, the one and only true God, has explicitly defined what love is. He has made nature, the natural phenomena and the laws that govern them. When it comes to sex or sexual relationship, it is between a man and a woman. This sexual relationship that should be between a man and woman is only scripturally sanctioned between a man and his wife. Whatever exists between two same-sex individuals is an aberration and not love, at least, not according to the Scriptures.

Etrange, if you were spiritual, you would know that homosexuality defiles the earth.

Well, you said something about "you doing you and allowing another person to do him/her" It appears you haven't been paying attention. If you were, you would have understood the premise of this thread.

I have already told you that homosexuality was never part of my culture and it is still not a part of it. I don't know if such ever existed among them, because if it did, I believe the perpetrators were dealt with accordingly. It means, therefore, that the people found it strange and contrary to the natural order of sexual relationship. I thought it would be simple enough for you to comprehend the first time.

If there were no cases of homophobia, it means, therefore, that it was either non-existent or it was existing among such people and was sanctioned.

Actually, homosexuality has to do with the worship of Baal. So, I wouldn't be surprised if it existed among some people before the Scriptures of YHVH Almighty were introduced to them. One thing is certain, the God, YHVH Almighty, the one and only Supreme Being, that owns the Scriptures, which you call Bible, is against homosexuality.

You carefully refused to mention the cultures that approved of homosexuality in Africa.

Tctrills, didn't you say there weren't unclean sexual attractions?

tctrills:

There is nothing like unclean sexual attraction. Being sexually attracted to someone is not a sin or unclean. It's a very healthy and natural thing.

So you say it is okay to have sexual attraction to cars , street lights and to goats and rams.

Too bad you are not The Judge, We will hear and see from The Court on that day, if your opinion is upheld if ye shall be thrown into the fire.

Dtruthspeaker:


So you say it is okay to have sexual attraction to cars , street lights and to goats and rams.

Too bad you are not The Judge, We will hear and see from The Court on that day, if your opinion is upheld if ye shall be thrown into the fire.

Now you talk like a kid. So let me ask you have you ever had a sexual attraction? If yes, did it come naturally or did you need to do anything special before you had your attraction.
Having sexual attraction is the most natural thing. It's not even a choice. We don't choose who or what we get attracted to. So please grow up.
On the other hand, we choose what we do with our attraction. We choose to let it lead us to sin. But attraction on its own is a natural process. It comes from natural triggers that God put in us

tctrills:

Now you talk like a kid. So let me ask you have you ever had a sexual attraction? If yes, did it come naturally or did you need to do anything special before you had your attraction.
Having sexual attraction is the most natural thing. It's not even a choice. We don't choose who or what we get attracted to. So please grow up.
On the other hand, we choose what we do with our attraction. We choose to let it lead us to sin. But attraction on its own is a natural process. It comes from natural triggers that God put in us

Certainly never had a sexual attraction to a fellow male or animal or street light and I know no man who does.

And I know it is only those devils who have been cursed by God by virtue of Romans 1:24/ 27, that express this madness.

So Romans 1:24/ 27 already tells us that it is a punishment from God upon devil's

Thank God that it is still Him Who will Judge it.

elated177:


1) The point where I said that there were particular natural orders of things escaped your attention, I suppose.

2) I cannot talk about nature, natural phenomena and the laws that govern them without consulting and making references to my Scriptures.

1) You said homosexuality defiles the earth, and that makes people suffer. I asked how, and your answer is that there's a particular order of things? We're talking about people's lives here, and you're giving these vague and shallow answers? How does two men kissing in their room make you suffer. Give a practical answer with examples.

2) That's all you had to say to end this chat, bro. The only justification you have for discriminating a certain minority is your Bible. That's what I've always maintained, and like I said, there's no discussion to be had in that case. This is where I stopped reading.

You cannot justify homophobia in practical terms yet you hate them so much that you had to create a thread to express the hatred in a country where they are already discriminated as it is. The good thing is, it's only a matter of time before the gay people in Africa gets thier freedom. Humans will always discriminate against other humans of different nature, but freedom comes when it is due. Blacks fought the good fight, and they are better off today. Women in some parts of the Middle East are fighting the good fight, and things are brightening up for them. Gay people in Africa will have thier time.

By the way, real straight people don't wake up thinking about homosexuals and they definitely don't go about creating threads about them. Talk to someone if you need to.

Ciao !

Dtruthspeaker:


Certainly never had a sexual attraction to a fellow male or animal or street light and I know no man who does.

And I know it is only those devils who have been cursed by God by virtue of Romans 1:24/ 27, that express this madness.

So Romans 1:24/ 27 already tells us that it is a punishment from God upon devil's

Thank God that it is still Him Who will Judge it.

you think it's devils who have been cursed by God that are attracted to their fellow men. You are still a child.

elated177:
Etrange, there are also spiritual causes of wars.

Two people who are in same-sex relationship may not be causing harm to anyone directly, but the abominable and unnatural act defiles the earth. When the earth is defiled, who suffers it? So, you see, etrange, homosexuality is a dangerous act. It constitutes danger to both the perpetrators and the others. This is simple to understand.

What if a person decides to pollute the only source of drinking water in his/her community, should he/she be allowed to do him/her?

What would my culture say about something that was never part of it? Such an act would have been considered strange and those who were caught in it dealt with. In fact, such an act was unheard of. We have names for many things, but there is no name for homosexuality in my language.

Homosexuality has been in existence since time immemorial, so have the evil spirits.


Can you mention some of the African cultures that weren't homophobic?

I generally don't engage with topics like this, and i think etrange has done a really good job in addressing your points.

However, there's something I've seen you say here over and over which i believe should be addressed. And that's the whole idea of culture.

The fact that a culture accepts, or detests a particular thing doesn't prove anything. Whether or not African cultures in the past accepted homosexuality says nothing about the morality of it.

Speaking generally here, there are cultures in Africa that killed, harmed or ostracized twins, left handed people, albinos, or people with other harmless physical qualities out of their control.

"African culture" is not this all encompassing thing that's morally pure. We don't judge things based on what cultures they originate from. We judge them based on their effect on people's wellbeing, and the environment.

We didn't choose what cultures to be born into. And we are under no obligation to accept or reject something from another culture SOLELY because it didn't originate from ours.

If you want to make a case against homosexuality or any other thing you dislike, appeals to previous cultures, and appeal to scripture do absolutely nothing to strengthen your argument.

It was even etrange who factored culture into the discourse. I am even glad that he/she did. He/she couldn't stand what he heard.

Everything makes one or more cases against homosexuality. The heavens, the ground, the animals that move and live in the waters and on the ground, the plants, the birds of the air, etc, all make one or more cases against homosexuality. It is only a few humans who have decided to support the abomination called homosexuality.

Wilgrea7, what do you suppose I appeal to? Science? Homosexuality is evil, vile, abominable, unnatural through and through.