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Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 5:09pm On Jan 06, 2019 |
LordReed:Right. Don't get carried away by the term "God", reason would still lead you to the same essence of a "being" of some sort, or a phenomenon, as HellVictorinho termed it. Some people get all worked up and triggered when the term God is used. |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 4:58pm On Jan 06, 2019 |
LordReed:Right. Cool. Although that's not the main explanation but an example. Still okay, I'm sure you got the context. |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 4:19pm On Jan 06, 2019 |
HellVictorinho:Gbam! You are there! We only differ in terms of the name/term we call the same phenomenon. This is the reason why In-Existence is Ever-impossible.I couldn't agree more! |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 6:18am On Jan 06, 2019 |
LordReed:From which of the three approaches did you get that? 1. The argument from desire 2. The objective intelligibility of the world 3. The argument from contingency. |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 6:11am On Jan 06, 2019 |
HellVictorinho:Please explain the origin of the "Existential Constant." |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 8:00pm On Jan 05, 2019 |
LordReed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP2rLgrBtTI How do we know there's a God? Why do we believe in God at all? That's the foundation for the whole spiritual life. The great theologians and spiritual teachers have used different approaches to this question over the centuries. One of my favorites is the approach that begins with desire. We human beings desire the truth. Our minds seek the truth and we get it sometimes. But no matter how much truth we get out of this world, it's never enough; the mind remains unsatisfied. We seek the good and find it a lot of ways in this world, but no matter how many goods we attain, we’re never really satisfied. We seek justice in all kinds of ways and we achieve it sometimes to a remarkable degree. Think of in our own time, civil rights movement, the end to apartheid, the breakdown of the Soviet Union… all those were wonderful things that were attainment of justice but no matter how much justice we attain, we never have enough. There's something in us - this desire for the good, the true, the just, that pushes us beyond this world. This approach is called the argument from desire. You can't desire what you don't know. Therefore, if we are desiring something that transcends anything in this world, in some way, we must already know it. Therefore, we do know the truth itself; we do know the good itself; we do know justice itself… and that's who God is! God is not one of the true things in the world, but God is the truth itself which has seized the mind of any scientist, any philosopher, any seeker after the truth. God is not one more good thing in the world, but God is goodness itself which has seized anybody when he's living the moral life or seeking the ethically good. God is not one more just thing in the world, but God is justice itself which has seized the will of the lawyer or the judge or anyone seeking justice. The Bible talks about the primacy of God. When you're seeking God, the most important to realize is you've already been found by God. Remember the Russian cosmonauts who went up into space and they kind of sarcastically radioed back to earth “well, we're up in the heavens and we haven't found God.” Of course, any biblical person would know he'll never find God that way. Of course not, you don't find God anywhere in the cosmos he's made, but God is the creative source of all that exists in the cosmos. So that's one approach to God beginning with our own deep desire. Here's a second approach and it comes from Pope [Benedict XVI] who wrote a great book in 1968 called introduction to Christianity. In that book, he formulates this argument and what I like about it is it shows the link between religion and science because very often those two are seen as enemies. He says “no, at their depth, religion and science come together.” Here's why: what does every scientist assume? Whether you're a physicist, a chemist, biologist, psychologist… whatever you are, you assume that ‘being’ is intelligible. That means that the world can be known. Even the name ‘psychology’ designates ‘logos’ (word). The scientist goes out to meet a world that's imbued with meaning. Well how do you explain that? How do you explain the universality of the meaningfulness of the world? Ratzinger (Benedict XVI) said it's because it has been thought into being. In other words, the world is not just dumbly there. Rather, the world is filled with ‘logos’; it's filled with reason, which is why when we understand the truth, we say we “re”-cognize” it. He says, “right, you ‘re’-cognize it” (you think it again) because it's already been thought into being by God... So, he argues from the objective intelligibility of the world to the existence of a great intelligence which has thought the world into being. Here's a third approach the philosophers and theologians have used. it's called the argument from contingency. It's a fancy way of saying that the world as we know it exists but doesn't have to exist. You and I are here but we don't have to be here; there's nothing necessary about our being. It's true the world as we know it is fleeting (it's passing). Therefore, we have to go outside the world to God. God who does exist through himself and who therefore grounds and creates the whole of the world that we know. Relatedly, Dorothy Day, when she was in the process of coming to the church (she was going through a process of conversion), she had a child. And one day when she was on the porch of her house and she was holding her child, she said, “I felt a gratitude that was so enormous that I knew it would correspond to nothing in this world.” There was nothing/nobody in this world she could possibly thank that would correspond to the gratitude she was feeling. That's it! that's exactly it! What she was sensing was “....this world... myself... my child… none of it has to be here, yet it's here.” And the proper response is “thank you to the person who made them.” |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 12:57pm On Jan 05, 2019 |
HellVictorinho:Please explain how they came to be/occur. |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 10:57am On Jan 05, 2019 |
HellVictorinho:From were did they emanate? |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 11:32pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
LordReed:Yes, as long as you are not certified to do so. How painful is it that you will never be able to walk or take back your incoherent argument as I have quoted all of them? |
Celebrities / Re: Chika Ike Looks Adorable In New Makeup Photo From Singapore (photos) by 9inches(m): 11:01pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
When is she goner marry kwanu? |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 10:43pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
LordReed:Well, I don't see it as a mountain out of a molehill, but rather a lie that you were trying to smuggle into the argument and got caught red handed. |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 10:35pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
LordReed:The definition and evidence you need is in the video. Done my bit, over to you. If data is your problem, I could transcribe for you when I'm less busy, sorry. |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 9:57pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
LordReed:Clever way to bow out of a line of argument you lost a couple of posts ago. You got tired of throwing stuff out there to see what will stick, don't you? Grasping at straws, that's what you've been doing Now we can focus on the God question. |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 9:44pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
HellVictorinho:And those components of Nature being what? |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 9:28pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 8:20pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
LordReed:He is still without credibility as long as he is not certified for such. |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 6:03pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
LordReed:Anything like what? What kind of evidence or theory are you looking for? |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 5:31pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
LordReed:Wrong! If he is not certified for such, his 'verification' is without credibility and useless. |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 5:29pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 5:17pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
LordReed:Irrelevant if he's not an engineer. |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 4:55pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
LordReed:You haven't done so yourself yet you believe the scientists like I do? That is more than can be said for any faith position.Errrm, you forgot this: 9inches: |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 4:35pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
LordReed:@bolded, That's exactly something I will say YOU cannot replicate or verify. |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 4:33pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
LordReed:@bolded Right, because he is not an engineer. Formal training or certification would make him an engineer regardless if he is tinkering in his garage or in a Boeing hangar. "Amateurs are not generally considered when talking about any endeavour" but you just did them a great service by considering them. |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 4:13pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
HellVictorinho:Describe those occurences/events. |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 4:09pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
HellVictorinho: HellVictorinho:Hmmm, interesting! Please watch and respond/critic. I'd appreciate it. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Yjue8MXAI 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak-riGdz-UM 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvqWTx8ykzg |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 2:57pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
HellVictorinho: The effects of the 'Possibility of Man's predetermined Existence' can be called the 'Functional Consequences'. These effects (Functional Consequences) characterized the manner in which the first humans were formed and which predetermined man's suffering to no end! Possibility of Man's predetermined Existence ---> Functional Consequences ---> Man/suffering |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 2:37pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
HellVictorinho: The functional consequences that determined man's existence also [pre]determined man's suffering to no end! I'm following. I'm sure you are working on second part of my question. And by the way, be free to point out any misrepresentation of what you say as I'm putting them all together. |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 2:20pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
LordReed:Are professional scientists or amateurs different from "scientists"? So, in essence, you were saying "We do not accept that the sun is 1AU away because scientists said so. We accept it because the methods they used are repeatable and the results can be verified by professional scientists or amateurs. Hmm |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 2:10pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
HellVictorinho: Man is bound to suffer 1. to what end, and 2. kindly throw more light on the "functional consequences" that determined man's existence. |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 12:31pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
LordReed:Who are the "others"? Non scientists I'd guess? More than 70% of researchers who took part in a recent study published in Nature have tried and failed to replicate another scientist’s experiment. Another study found that at least 50% of life science research cannot be replicated. The same holds for 51% of economics papers. The findings of these studies resonate with the gut feeling of many in contemporary academia that a lot of published research findings may be false. Just like any other information source, academic journals may contain fake news. There are as well scientific facts that have been disproven over time. |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 12:30pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
HellVictorinho:I'm sorry I don't. Mind expatiating on that? |
Religion / Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 12:25pm On Jan 04, 2019 |
HellVictorinho: Again, you are talking about causality. Please explain WHY there is suffering, not who is responsible for suffering. Thanks! |
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