₦airaland Forum

BOSSkesh:
Most modern Christians just want to speak nonsense to be looked at as the most prayerful and religious people
They wan to feel among the most holiest of people in the church
True word

Cc: Truvel

Let's pretend for a minute what Pentecostals are doing today is genuine tongues. We still see them disregard scripture today because of all the accounts of many doing it at the same time and without an interpreter (1Cor 14:27-28). The scriptures prescribes only three gifted ones speaking before the congregation, one after the other, with an interpreter.

It is typical seeing among them one speaking few words in tongues with a lengthy interpretation, or speaking in a relatively simple vocabulary tongue and a multiplex interpretation; these we should see hints at fraud, consider 1Cor 14:16.

Another un-scriptural belief that Pentecostals hold is that tongues are a sign that you have received the Holy Spirit baptism, but scripture is clear that tongues are a sign to the unbelievers not to the believers (1Cor 14:20-22). A popular teaching of the Pentecostal church is that you have to speak in tongues in order to show that you have the Holy Ghost Baptism. This is equivalent to saying: ‘unless you speak in tongues your are not saved’; thus adding an extra-biblical precondition to being saved (Mat 23:13).

The tongues spoken in Pentecostal churches and their imitators is repetitive in nature; when the bible gives instructions on prayer, it assumes that prayer is understood on the part of the believer and that they are communicating to God in terms which can be understood (Mat 6:5-13, Rom 15:30-32, Eph 6:18-20, Col 4:2-3, Heb 13:18-19). Jesus frowned at vain repetitious prayer (Mat 6:7). A repetitive prayer is a sure indication that tongues is not inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Truvel:
1. Speaking In An Unknown tongues (not Praying In Tongues) D Tongue Could Be Earth Tongues(our Local Dialects) Or Angelic Tongues( Heavenly Tongues). Infact, Dis Is A Topic On Its Own Of Which If I Av Time I Would Create & Lay More Emphasis On.

Don’t create topic; give us your best shot on this one.

DappaD:
Well yes you're correct, the gift of tongues was to enable the new Jew proselytes speak foreign languages they had not learned – Acts 2:6-11
And the Bible did say those gifts of holy spirit won't be effective in our day (1Corinthians 13:8 )
The so-called men of god and other fake Christians today have brainwashed many into thinking that speaking balderdash is the same thing as speaking in tongues.
This further reveals them to be the “workers of lawlessness” Jesus talked about. (Matthew 7:21-23)

1 Corinthians 14:10 There are, perhaps, a great many kinds of languages in the world, and no kind is without meaning.

This tongue, their “balderdash”, does it have any meaning?

1 Corinthians 14:19 however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue (without meaning).

But they will tell you that Paul was just giving a suggestion rather than an instruction.

1 Corinthians 14:22 So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.

Who were these unbelievers?

Paul says: Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed. Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 1 Corinthians 15:11-13.

The unbelievers did not believe that Christ was risen from the dead; they said: ‘no man has ever risen after dying’. Therefore, the tongues of the Spirit of God, was a propagating mechanism of the gospel of Christ’s resurrection and the essence of it, in the local dialect - the Doric Greek.

But we see that those that speak the atrocious meaningless language never stretch to Chapter 15: yes! they cannot because they don’t do proper hermeneutics on chapter 14.

Alexgman1:
God is merciful & mighty to save. He always forgives us our sins & tresspasses no matter how far we have gone. But the bible made us to know that there are sins that cannot be forgiven by God. Pls i need you guys to expantiate with bible verses on it.
WHAT ARE THE UNFORGIVABLE SINS?

There are two unforgivable sins in the scriptures:

1. Unbelief of the gospel.
2. Sinning against the Holy Spirit.

Concerning point two, when Christ stated this sin is unforgivable, the reasons were these:

1. Attributing the works (deeds and accomplishments) of God to Satan, and by extension -
2. Attributing the works of Satan to God.

Therefore, it is blasphemous to defame the deeds of God by attributing them to the basest of His creation, Satan.

Brachaa:
You took the words right out of my mouth.

This is how the cage people in fewr and everlasting bondage.

How many can you remember to restitute?

Lean on the finished works of Christ. Grace and mercy works.

Yes, many (so-called) churches use their doctrine of restitution to hold many in everlasting bondage. When we are saved, Christ takes the place and punishment for our old man: the old man sinned, it’s Christ that restitutes. Jacob was a man who thought he could restitute towards his brother; he didn’t know that God has given his brother, Esau, all the things Esau thought he had lost- there was no need for his restitution- El-shaddai paid it all. The doctrine taught today asserts that Christ cannot do exceedingly, and abundantly above all that we think. It is unfortunate.

chelsea04:
If i happen to kill somebody and i become born again, is there any need of telling the family what i have done to their child. Pls ur suggestion can help

Restitution is a biblical concept; it is to be a result of our salvation—it is not a requirement for salvation. There are passages in both Old and New Testaments that reveal the mind of God on this subject. In the Old Testament, the Israelites were under the Law, which specified restitution in a variety of circumstances: “If a man steals an ox or a sheep and slaughters it or sells it, he must pay back five head of cattle for the ox and four sheep for the sheep. . . . A thief must certainly make restitution, but if he has nothing, he must be sold to pay for his theft. If the stolen animal is found alive in his possession—whether ox or donkey or sheep—he must pay back double. If a man grazes his livestock in a field or vineyard and lets them stray and they graze in another man’s field, he must make restitution from the best of his own field or vineyard. If a fire breaks out and spreads into thornbushes so that it burns shocks of grain or standing grain or the whole field, the one who started the fire must make restitution. . . If a man borrows an animal from his neighbor and it is injured or dies . . . he must make restitution” (Exodus 22:1, 3-6, 14).

Leviticus 6:2-5 covers other situations in which the stolen property is restored, plus one fifth of the value. Also of note in this passage, the restitution was made to the owner of the property (not to the government or any other third party), and the compensation was to be accompanied by a guilt offering to the Lord. The Mosaic Law, then, protected victims of theft, extortion, fraud, and negligence by requiring the offending parties to make restitution. The amount of remuneration varied anywhere from 100 to 500 percent of the loss. The restitution was to be made on the same day that the guilty one brought his sacrifice before the Lord, which implies that making amends with one’s neighbor is just as important as making peace with God.

In the New Testament, we have the wonderful example of Zacchaeus in Luke 19. Jesus is visiting Zacchaeus’s home, and the people who know the chief publican to be a wicked and oppressive man are beginning to murmur about His associating with a sinner (verse 7). “But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, ‘Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.’ Jesus said to him, ‘Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost’” (verses 8-10). From Zacchaeus’s words, we gather that:

1) he had been guilty of defrauding people,
2) he was remorseful over his past actions, and
3) he was committed to making restitution.

From Jesus’ words, we understand that:

1) Zacchaeus was saved that day and his sin was forgiven, and
2) the evidence of his salvation was both his public confession (see Romans 10:10) and his relinquishing of all ill-gotten gains.

Zacchaeus repented, and his sincerity was evident in his immediate desire to make restitution. Here was a man who was penitent and contrite, and the proof of his conversion to Christ was his resolve to atone, as much as possible, for past sins.

The same holds true for anyone who truly knows Christ today. Genuine repentance leads to a desire to redress wrongs. When someone becomes a Christian, he will have a desire born of deep conviction to do good, and that includes making restoration whenever possible. The idea of “whenever possible” is crucially important to remember. There are some crimes and sins for which there is no adequate restitution. In such instances, a Christian should make some form of restitution that demonstrates repentance, but at the same time, does not need to feel guilty about the inability to make full restitution. Restitution is to be a result of our salvation—it is not a requirement for salvation. If you have received forgiveness of sins through faith in Jesus Christ, all of your sins are forgiven, whether or not you have been able to make restitution for them.

https://www.gotquestions.org/restitution-Bible.html

2 Corinthians 5:19, 21: God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, .., He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Captain6:
555Sports.com

Thank you very much

Chatflick:
Download Live football from play store

Thank you very much. I did as you said.

Anyone here who knows a streaming website?

delkuf:
Didn't you read the examples I gave you from the Bible. the one I gave you is it not from the Bible

Please, read my question. I asked: How can a sinner like me ask in faith?

delkuf:
What is require is faith. Am not in any way supporting sinners, but Even a sinner can act on the word of God with faith and receive answer. I think you have you have come across the story of the woman that came to the Lord Jesus Christ desiring that he should help her. The woman was a gentile. the Lord Jesus Christ told her that he can not give the food meant for the children to the dog and this woman with faith told the Lord Jesus Christ that even the dogs eat from the crumbs that falls down from the table. Another one is the story of the centurion that came to the Lord Jesus Christ to pray for his servant. The Lord Jesus Christ even said he has not seen such great faith in Israel. So my brother, even a non Christian that on the Bible with faith get results. But we all need to give our lives to the Lord Jesus Christ and accept him

Thanks for your response. I’ve embolden a part of your reply; I’d like to ask you this: How can a sinner, whom the scriptures describes as one to whom the word of God is foolishness, act on the word of God with faith? Can you back up your response to this with the scriptures? Thanks.

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Tuska:
Yes

You need to research the status of Abram and his father, Terah, in Mesopotamia before God ever came into their lives. When you find out, I’d like to advise that you shouldn’t follow the words of men in the worship of God.

delkuf:
The word of God doesn't always work for christian, really. The only time the word of God won't work a Christian is when it is not applied with faith. The word of God works for any body. A non Christian can say the word of God into any situation and it will work for her.

Good morning. I embolden some parts of your comment, above. Please can you back up what you said - the embolden, with an extensive support from the scriptures?

MuttleyLaff:
In Exodus 4:25-26, the pronoun “You” (i.e. in the NASB) appears twice, the pronoun “He” and “him” appears once.

You are right that Zipporah, after performing the circumsion on their son, first threw the foreskin at His feet, then said about God, affirming that, He is a bridegroom of blood to her, at which, subsequently, God let him alone or spared his life (i.e. spared the life of Moshe's son). She had that satori that He is Jesus Christ

Reading Exodus chapter 4 contextually put things in their proper perspective

"¹Then Miriam and Aaron criticized Moses because of the Cushite woman he had married, for he had taken a Cushite wife.
²“Does the LORD speak only through Moses?” they said. “Does He not also speak through us?” And the LORD heard this"
- Numbers 12:1-2

It's from the exposure of Zipporah, being a pastor/priest's one of seven daughters (i.e. the daughter of Reuel/Jethro/Hobab, the priest and prince of Midian) and that her privy to the knowledge of the details of the Bridegroom, obtained likely from divining, as a result of past interacts with Moses, that made he,r have the understanding, revelation of who the Bridegroom of blood is, have the know how and capability to carry the circumcision

Numbers 12:1-2, is informing us that, Miriam and Aaron criticized Moses because of wife, the Cushite woman, an outsider. Zipporah is an archetype, a typical example of the Gentiles, who 2000 years will be grafted into the fold based on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. This was a coded language of what was going to happen in the future

Also they were jealous of the Bridegroom revelation Zipporah received (i.e. Numbers 12:2), and why it wasn't them that had it

The shepherdess in Song of Solomon 1:5-6 is not a naturally black skinned person. She actually is an Israelite, just like the other womenfolk. She is a person of the Levant origin or from the Mediterranean Sea region

The shepherdess in Song of Solomon Solomon 1:5-6, an bonafide and confirmed Israelite, had to apologise to the women, for turning dark and/or for becoming darker than her other fellow light olive-skinned/light reddish brown skinned/light yellow or golden skinned Israelite womenfolk.

Yes, they weren't aware that they were given a glimpse of what the future would be or look like and so they unconsciously were fighting and/or kicking against it.

3/ What is Moshe simulating when he married Zipporah?
The simulation is this: Jesus’ Union with the Apostles in the building of the Church of God.He was simulating the future union of Jew and Gentiles and the time when it wouldn't matter whether one is a Jew or a Gentile

I didn’t do too badly, right?

MuttleyLaff:
The first, was God, calling the man, a fool and the second is, king Solomon, calling another a prating fool

Both are “(G)gods”.

MuttleyLaff:
"“But God said to him,
‘You fool! You will die this very night.
Then who will get everything you worked for?’"
- Luke 12:20

"He who winks the eye causes trouble,
And a babbling fool will be ruined."
- Proverbs 10:10

I belong in the world of the Bible. It is a world that doesnt read scripture out of context, doesnt read scripture under pretext nor does proof-texting with scripture.

Now, fyi, honesty and sincerity are among the simple virtues. We are all, at one time or the other fools, some fools are bigger than other fools

The answer is before you: who called who “fool”?

MuttleyLaff:
Psalm 14:1 and 53:1 says, whosoever has said in his/her heart there is no God, is a fool, meaning such person has made a wrong decision, such person has worked out God wrongly et cetera. There is nothing malicious, in saying someone is a fool, moreso, when it is a statement of fact that, folly obviously and not wisdom reigned supreme

What will guide a man to cross the super highway when there are fast moving articulated juggernauts and cars on the road Foolhardy

OP was right to call the aggressor fool, after OP was first called a fool, when not, by the provoker.

I don’t know what world you belong to; but my world is not a dog-eat-dog world. Christ must be our example when we are reviled.

MuttleyLaff:
Is it a fool or a wise person who crosses a fast moving 16 lane superhighway without using the overhead pedestrian bridge or underground by-pass, hmm?

The difference between wisdom and folly is good judgement, its about making, taking or saying the right thing, decision or conclusion.

Now, when you prepend, the +ve or -ve adjective with, "you, good for nothing" then you've probably, unwittingly set yourself up, for the candidacy/candidature of hell

David was speaking of atheists, who have reached the wrong conclusion or made the wrong decision to declare that there is no Supreme, Intelligence, Self Existent, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, Incorporeal Being

The OP may say he didn’t quote anyone, so he called no one a fool. The soul whispers what the heart desires. Listen to your soul, and you'll hear it whisper my name, so says Grace Willows. He was referring to his antagonist; in contrast to David who was referring to no one in particular. Late Rev. Job Alabi used to say: “when you write a letter and address it to: ‘To-whom-it-may-concern’, it may concern nobody at all”; they were a ‘To-whom-it-May-concern’ verses in the Bible -Psalm 14:1and 53:1.

Wisdom will guide a fool to cross the super highway when there are no cars on the road

As for atheist, only the Lord God can help such a one whose state is as one who looks into the mirror and sees nothing.

MuttleyLaff:
Shall king David be guilty enough to go into the fire of hell for impressing Psalm 14:1 and Psalm 53:1?

ade4prof returned back the coin, the provoker used, in that business transaction and importantly note that ade4prof didnt use "You good-for-nothing" on the aggressor

1 Peter 2:21-23: For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth; and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats

...but he said, “You are a fool”, not “You good-for-nothing”. You spoke of David: who did David refer to as, “the fool”: Saul, Goliath or Doeg? Evil Whispers - what you do after the whisper determines your sin or victory, so says John M. Sheehan; David whispers, “the fool”, to the hearing of the “beloved”, but his actions thereafter is love - there is his victory. He whom you defend is going for the jugular - there is his sin.

The words of Apostle Peter is sufficient to quench the fire of his retaliation - let him follow Christ.

ade4prof:
You are a fool!

Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fire of hell.

Dantedasz:
Your consistency in lifting other people's literary works passing it off as your own and consistently failing to credit them is saddening. Despite being admonished in the past about plagiarism and intellectual property theft you have continued this in an unrepentant manner. Is it too much to credit the source of this article? I am not a Christian but what you are doing is totally against the tenets of christianity.



THE LINK BELOW LEADS TO THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://sermons.faithlife.com/sermons/284805-crucified-with-christ&ved=2ahUKEwiHrpeggPTqAhWCyYUKHZMgAOsQFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw0PV_fujCQapjLUttEU5lGf&cshid=1596078667600

Yes, very saddening. In addition to theft, she adds an unhealthy dose of jealousy to other people’s writings that make it to the front-page.

MuttleyLaff:
Acehart, please re-attempt answering question #2 but, do so, in the #2a and #2b format used to ask the questions and mind you, I used "jealous" and not "hatred" in question #2a, I will thereafter properly respond to your posts and shed more light. By the way, I like your latter answer to #1 and equally like your #3 "Moshe was a type of Christ ..." earlier bit answer.

Are you on strike?

Kobojunkie:
Indeed, through Christ, more grace has indeed come to us.
But God’s goodness or favor or blessings is bestowed on ALL mankind. God is not a G0d of favoritism, said Peter!

God's counternance, and His mercy, He shines on both the wicked and the righteous alike. Look around the world you live in to see how true this truly is.

So, How can grace of God then have a meaning that suggests God does indeed show favoritism of some kind, especially to some and not all of the wicked or all of the righteous?

Is there anyone, man or woman, who is deserving of God's favor or mercy?
None, after all there is none good, no not one. So what does it even mean to suggest that grace is God's underserved favor/blessings/goodness. It means absolutely nothing.

God does not weigh His decisions on whether a man is deserving of what He gives or not, because God is a just God. God is perfect -He loves the righteous and the unrighteous the same. And He chose from the beginning to send His only begotten son to prove that to all mankind, His hands remain open, leaving the choice as to whether to obey Him or not in the hands of each and every man still, just as He did in the old Covenant.

I don't see what you mean at all by the grace of God initiating Salvation in either scenario. In both cases, I see God decide to show mercy to whomever He chooses. By God's grace, you do not refer to God's mercy at all, do you?
Yes, God is gracious alright , but His graciousness does not lead to salvation, else every man and women would be saved by it. God's grace is upon every living man He ever created. If His graciousness in fact leads to salvation as you claim, then all men will indeed be saved in the end. You and I know that is not the case.
Oh boy! This brings back memories of the old Salvation-the-Sanctification rubbish that I also attempted as a youth. Look, the problem with all of these remains that Jesus Christ never separated the path He gave us into different stages. All He taught was obedience, leading to one becoming a follower of His.
Remember the rich man who asked Jesus Christ what it would take for him to become a Child of God? Jesus Christ didn't suggest there was a stage or more left for the rich man to complete. What Jesus Christ simply did instead was point out to the rich man the one commandment that he, the rich man, was yet to obey in order to qualify as His, Jesus Christ's, follower.

The doctrines and traditions of men have indeed done what Jesus Christ warned they would in the lives of those who claim to belong to Him.

The gospel is as vast as the galaxies put together; yes, much wider. None can know the vast beauty of the gospel; So we fellowship with all saints so that we may try to acquiesce what the breadth and length and height and depth of the glories of Christ is.

If you have a portion of the breath of the gospel, why don’t you give someone else the benefit of a doubt that he has apprehended a portion of the height of its galaxies of glory, so that your joy in Christ may multiply?

I have been saved for about twenty-five years now. I don’t think I was as zealous or knowledgeable as you are in the first five years of my walk; but I can tell you this: Your walk is still tender; and you will see things clearer and better as your legs walks farther, for sure.

You need to show restraint in many of your approach to people here because many are tender and many are searching for the truth (even those who pretend to be something when they are not); don’t serve as a stumbling block to their salvation because you are going gung-ho on their stance concerning any matter. Just be an example of humility and strength and restraint.

May the Lord continue to be with you.

Kobojunkie:
I think we should try at this point to understand what grace is.
From what I have learnt from God, grace is the sum total of all the resources(time, days, lifetime, people, relations, paths, opportunities, doubts, fears, situations etc.) that God has made available to every living being to live and eventually lead them back to Him, in order to accomplish His plan for the life in question.

John 1:17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

Hi, hope your day went well?
Grace: we know that Grace has been defined, correctly, as God’s goodness or favor or blessings, bestowed on those who do not deserve it. From this definition that we can say of grace that it is the mind or countenance of God. Like the sun’s light is spread through several spectra, so is God’s intention to the fallen man is spread through time, days, lifetime, people, relations, paths, opportunities, doubts, fears, situations etc. Yet, the sun is not the sum total of all spectra of light; the sun is the light. But you have made the cause to be the sum of effects. God’s decision to elect anyone before considering the tools is termed ‘Grace‘. Didn’t He tell Jeremiah: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you." If the consecration of Jeremiah and knowledge of Jeremiah by God was before he was formed in the womb, is it correct to say he was known before his mother was born? is it also correct to say that this consecration and knowledge was determined before Genesis 1:1? If this is so, where is the place in God for this factors you stated: time, days, lifetime, people, relations, paths, opportunities, doubts, fears, situations?

Kobojunkie:
The Scriptures don't show this at all. Instead, you came to this by reading through the letters of Paul as presented to us today.

I hope you are very knowledgeable regarding the discussion Abraham had with God concerning Sodom and Gomorrah; what set-off the discussion? If you are not very knowledgeable concerning this narrative, you can glance at that portion of the scriptures and realize that it is the Grace of God that’s initiates salvation. You would also come to this conclusion after reading the Book of Jonah.

Kobojunkie:
The grace of God does not preserve anything. Grace is a collection of resources and tools. Tools are not designed to preserve anything. Those who are followers of Jesus Christ are preserved by the Spirit of God, not by elements of grace.

You are correct in saying that we preserved by the Spirit of God as the scriptures says: In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,. However, I never spoke of the elements of grace which you listed above as the means of salvation; I have always spoken of God’s intention vis-à-vis His action - Grace, to preserve our salvation in Christ; the scripture says, “O Lord God of heaven, the great and awesome God, who preserves the covenant and lovingkindness for those who love Him and keep His commandments”. God is gracious. His graciousness leads to salvation and keeps it, indeed.

Kobojunkie:
I don't know of those steps. Sanctified daily? A follower of Jesus Christ is reborn once and for all. The Spirit of God never leaves. In my case, even as I sleep, I know He is there with me even in my dreams.
I am still alive so I cannot tell you what will happen after my death.

These are the stages of our salvation:
1. Justification: Being reborn once and for all.
2. Sanctification: The daily process of killing our carnal proclivities through the renewing of our minds, our chastisement from God etc.
3. Glorification: When a new body springs out from our dying bodies.

Kobojunkie:
No, empowerment of any kind felt. Sorry!
The empowerment came only afterwards, not before.

This is not different from what I said. I’m now acquainted with what your viewpoints are.

May the Lord be with you.

Kobojunkie:
Speak more on the supernatural? It was like someone invaded my mind and was speaking to and through me. The someone was also able to control my own muscles and change my thoughts. Basically, I was possessed by a force that was able to feed it's intentions directly into my mind, and also take control over parts of my brain and my body. What do you want to know?
Of course, I eventually changed my mind about the EEG even after I got my doctor's approval.

I understand what you mean when you spoke about the Salvation and Sanctification doctrines that was thought in the late 80s; I have a book titled “Sanctification“, written by W.F Kumuyi, written in 1988, and I will say it is one of the most misinforming theology on Santification.

You would be the first person I know with the ‘remote control’ phenomenon as a means to knowing God; I envisage that this turning point made it easier for you to identify with Christ. I have read a few of your innumerable comments here on NL; and your narratives borders on:

1. There is no need for a Christian to seek for a teacher of the scriptures outside Christ Himself.
2. Following the commands of Christ will lead one to eternal life.
3. A Christian doesn’t need to fellowship with other Christians (I hope I am right on this one).

On your journey to knowing God, you tried reading the Bible by a decision initiated by you; you tried to love other men by a means initiated by you; and you tried to figure out “the unseen hand” behind several patterns in your life by means initiated by you. But these things are classified as “works” in the scriptures, the antithesis of “Faith“, and they all failed you. Then you spoke of an “invasion” of your mind when you didn’t anticipate it, initiate it or solicit for it; doesn’t that sound like the sudden appearing of Christ to several men in the scriptures from Abraham, to Gideon, to Samson’s parents, to the Samaritan woman etc. which led to their perplexity? I’m sure you were perplexed just like the man who heard the voice saying: “It is hard for you to kick against the goads“.

I stand with you when you say Grace doesn’t save; however, the scriptures shows that it is Grace of God that initiates our salvation; and it is the Grace of God that preserves our salvation. Are these not three stages of Salvation the scriptures says Grace sustains: The Calling and Justification, the Sanctification and the Glorification? We have been called; daily we are sanctified; and eventually when we take our last breathe or when we meet with the Lord physically while we still have breathe, we will be glorified. Our faith in Christ came because He invaded our space and compelled us by His Spirit to believe in Him and we were saved.

You have stated it clearly that it wasn’t your following of Jesus’ command that initiated the invasion of your mind and body; it just happened, without your cooperation - is it not the Grace of God that chose you to experience such a thing?

Your second narrative - the following of Jesus’ command; was it pre- mind invasion, occult-bound, Kobojunkie that followed the command or post- mind invasion Kobojunkie? Only post-invasion Kobojunkie is empowered to follow the Master - this empowerment is the Grace of God. Post-mind invaded Kobojunkie wasn’t a sinner, no more; he did things just as the scriptures says: “it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” You had passed from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light; and something conveyed you - God’s calling - Grace. As you walk back to the Tree of Life, you have stumbled along the way, definitely; but who and what picked you up? Wasn’t it the outstretched arm of the Lord? If you stood up all by your effort, then it was your effort that initiated the invasion.

We are saved in Christ; we are preserved in Christ; we will see Christ. Many will not be saved; do you claim that your salvation occurred and still continues because you are special, or you are the “cat’s meow” or the “dog’s bow-wow”? Of course not, if you weren’t involved in the selection process at the beginning, your spirit should lift up in praise, saying, “Thank you Jesus for saving me” - The Grace of God through Christ, alone, saved you; it is His Grace that will sustain as you follow the commands of Master. Take His grace away as you will be like a jackal wandering in the desert with the hope of life today, but not of tomorrow.

Kobojunkie:
Here goes!
I had lots of questions and no answers forthcoming. I tried doing 'Salvation by the grace of God' nonsense during my younger years, with hope that God would reveal himself to me from my doing that, but that never happened. So I instead settled into a logical existence. It was all I had, so I worked with it but the questions never went away, and as the years passed the urge to find answers for each and every question seemed to intensify.

You see, even as a child, I had noticed weird patterns(of events) in my life. The patterns persisted into adulthood, and no matter how much I tried, I just could not explain them away, nor could I put an end to them. Seemed like something was trying to get my attention, and it was leaving 'splatter' in my path to get me to notice. At first I tried to overlook them, but after a certain age, I felt I had to find out the meaning behind those occurrences. I of course tried psychological explanations, but my docs assured it there was nothing psychological that they could find to explain what I kept describing... the meds could not help rid me of the feeling that I was somehow "haunted".
I don't believe in ghosts or demons, so I never sought idiotic explanations as some would assume I should have. But I resolved to go straight to finding the head honcho Himself( the creator of it all) to finally get answers to all that had plagued me.

Long before I had made the decision, I had been researching philosophies and beliefs of all kinds, so it was relatively easy for me to, by process of elimination, decide on which I would pursue and which I taught a waste of my time. It took me years, but eventually I came around to finding the Christian God, but remembering my failed attempts at reaching Him through the 'Salvation and Sanctification' doctrine that used to be popular back in the late 80's, and the more recent 'Salvation by grace of God' doctrine, I decided to in fact approach Him in a scientific manner, by finding out exactly what He wanted and giving Him just that.
I began by reading the Bible from Genesis to Deuteronomy, eventually getting through much of the Old testament. I came away with the understanding that God did not care for our praise and worship... all He ever asked for was trust and obedience. He said this from the beginning. And 'trust and obedience' is what the Israelites denied Him over and over, even though He made it clear it was all He wanted from them from the get-go. Upon discovering this, I resolved to give Him exactly that, my trust and obedience( a lot of mental work went into preparing me for this exercise too). I spent time learning to distrust all of humanity so I could focus all my trust on God(that I still did not know) and God alone.


Before this time, I recalled reading that when asked to teach them to pray, Jesus Christ taught His disciples the Lord's prayer, and since I had zero faith that God heard anything I said back then, I decided in obedience to recite the Lord's prayer whenever I felt I needed help. I did that too for a long time. I would ask Him questions but when frustrated that no answer came, I would recite the Lord's prayer as if therapy for my frustrated mind. I was determined to cross all Ts and dot all Is before moving on to yet another religion.. next on my list was the occult.

Now, I didn't understand Jesus Christ at that time, and I certainly did not understand the why of Christ, but I knew from the Old testament that the two greatest commandments cover all the laws and the prophets and so I decided to work on obeying just those. At the beginning, I had no clue what it meant to love God with all my heart, mind, body and soul, and I didn't really understand how much love was needed to love my neighbor exactly as I loved my own self. But I was determined to accomplish it the best I could, so at least to maybe impress on God the fact that I was desperate for answers to the puzzles that plagued my life.

I worked on my mind... fixing it on loving God the Almighty, Omniscient, creator of all things, the beginning and the end, the top gun, the one from whom everything begins and ends, and is forever. I also worked on loving myself, in order that I could love my neighbor the best way possible, eventually putting all of this to practice serving people at a local pantry. And in a matter of months, I knew I had gotten His attention, as I felt I was being put through tests. Fortunately, I was still reading through the bible and putting to use some of the information I had remembered on what to do when faced with certain situations. Several weeks after that, He showed up.
Given it was my first every supernatural experience ever, I thought my mind had been hacked by aliens or even the Chinese (definitely not the Russians). Not every day you wake up to realizing that we humans are mere bio-robots(our very body and mind can be remotely controlled by powerful forces we cannot see). For a while after that I was scared that I was done for. Went back to my doctors for help, and they could not find anything wrong with me. I almost forced them to get me an EEG of my brain so I could study it for myself.

Could you speak more on the supernatural experience, please? Do you still have more to say after trying to force the medics to carry out an EEG?

Kobojunkie:
...

Could you tell me how you turned from being a atheist to a becoming a Christian, please? What was the turning point?

Kobojunkie:
How did you arrive at this?

Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

Then Jesus said to them: “Yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.“ Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. And He said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is given to him by the Father.”

Kobojunkie:
This has nothing to do with what I think. This has to do with what In Jesus Christ said and commanded of us all...including those whose supposed writings you randomly chose there....

A sinner cannot never do what Christ says or commands. It is Grace,alone, through the gospel that first draws a man to Christ - Grace brings him to the Cross. Here, we refer to the ‘drawing’ as the calling of God’ - a calling that is by Grace alone. After such a one is called through the the gospel of Christ by the regenerative power of the Spirit of God, then he is empowered by the same Spirit to do the things Christ says or commands - as you usually stress. One wrote: Consider two people who hear the gospel but only one responds positively. No Christian would say that the one who chooses Jesus is more righteous than the other, but if both are equally able to make the right choice, logical consistency means that the one is saved because he did something good in his decision-making. But if sinners are unable to love God, faith must be a gift and not something we initiate to get God to love us. This is the importance of sola gratia.

So I ask you Kobojunkie: can sinners do the works of the Father? I also ask this: can the saints live a life of holiness without the help of the Spirit? If your answer is in the affirmative, you are preaching another gospel; by implication, you negate the saving grace of God in Jesus’ response to his disciples when they asked: "Then who can be saved?"

Kobojunkie:
The Grace of God is only Mankind -Sinnera and non-Sinners alike. The grace of Jesus Christ is on those who are followers of Jesus Christ and this in addition to the Grace of God they were given from the beginning. Grace is a toolbox of sorts of resources, not some saving magic.

No magical tool can save anyman, not even grace can do that. The only thing that can is the New Covenant that is Jesus Christ and only steps in obedience to said covenant will make that happen.
Ananias is a man who had the grace of Jesus Christ on himself but we all know what he instead chose to do with it because of where his heart still remained.

Grace does not save anyone. What it does , as is the case for all men, is provide the path and resources to help lead one back to finding the Father. The heart is where the decision to choose the Father or continue in the world comes from and obedience is the key to the agreement that is Jesus Christ.

The gospel of Salvation through grace does not align with the way that is Jesus Christ as it teaches that which seeks to circumvent that which Jesus Christ commanded and so it is Antichrist.

God ‘has saved us and called us to a holy life – not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus. (2 Timothy 1:9, 10)

The doctrine of grace alone is essential to understand God’s redemptive plan for us all: this plan that was revealed succinctly in Genesis Genesis 6:8: But Noah had grace in the eyes of the Lord. God’s redemptive plan began before the foundation of the world—“For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. . . .” (Ephesians 1:4).

God’s redemptive plan was executed perfectly by His Son Jesus Christ who gave His life to redeem us. This redemption was not based upon any merit in us but was freely given to us by God’s grace. Romans 3:24 says, “and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus?.”

While we may be able to understand the doctrine of grace alone, it is much more difficult to live out. It is the “alone” part of grace alone that causes you to struggle. I may believe, for instance, that God has saved me by His grace, but there is that egotistic part of me that wants to believe that God needs my help. It is grace alone that saves from the wrath of God, we can add nothing. Martin Luther put it this way in his explanation of the Third Article of the Apostles Creed: “I believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ my Lord, or come to Him, except the Holy Spirit calls me through the Gospel.”

These facts deserve attention regarding the means or method of our salvation.

1. It is in Christ. Paul teaches this: It is “according to His own purpose and grace”; but he adds, “which was given us in Christ Jesus.” No views of God’s purposes are right, then, which separate them from Christ Jesus - in this, you are correct, Kobojunkie. God has revealed no purpose except in Him. His very mercy, full as it is, knows no channel except through Him. Most men are ready to be saved-no, wish it. The hard lesson for some to learn is, salvation by Christ. His appearing to any man, Howbeit through the gospel of Himself, is Grace.

2. It is by God’s calling.

3. It is for those who despise or neglect this salvation. Does its simple easy method offend you, Kobojunkie? How is this? The accomplishment of great ends by the simplest means is usually regarded as the greatest achievement of wisdom - if this is not God’s path, then He is not Almighty and All-wise. This plan is the result of Divine wisdom alone. No other wisdom could have devised it.

Kobojunkie, you think that grace implies God’s passing by sin. But no-quite the contrary; grace supposes sin to be so horribly bad a thing, that God cannot tolerate it. Were it in the power of man, after being unrighteous and evil, to patch up his ways, and mend himself so as to stand before God, there would then be no need of grace. The very fact of the Lord’s being gracious shows sin to be so evil a thing, that man, being a sinner, his state is utterly ruined and hopeless, and nothing but free grace will do for him-can meet his need.

Have a nice day at work, if you work. I hope you understand that the Doctrine of Sola Gratia is scriptural, through and through.

Kobojunkie:
Even the sola gratia(Salvation through the Grace of God) doctrine is not according to Jesus Christ's own teachings.

The general definition of the word grace, the inherited favor of God, is wrong since God is not a God of favoristism..His mercy and compassion He pours out on both the wicked and the righteous alike.

Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)

John tells us that out of Jesus’ “fullness we have all received, grace upon grace” (John 1:16). Many of the New Testament letters begin and end with the writers expressing their desire that the grace of Jesus would be with His people. The very last words of the Bible read: “The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen” (Rev. 22:21).

The Reformers understood the importance of the grace of God to the Bible’s teaching on salvation. In fact, one of the slogans that came to define Reformation teaching was sola gratia, which is Latin for “by grace alone.” Christians are saved by the grace of God alone.

Among Protestants, there is a popular misunderstanding and misrepresentation of the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching on grace. Sometimes it is said, “Rome teaches that we are saved by works, but Protestants teach that we are saved by grace.” This statement, common as it is, is a slander against the Roman Catholic Church. Rome does not teach that one is saved by works apart from the grace of God. She, in fact, teaches that one is saved by the grace of God.

To what, then, did Rome object in the Reformers’ teaching? Where does the line of difference between Rome and the Reformation lie? It lies in a single word—sola (“alone”). The Reformers maintained that the sinner is saved by the grace of God, His unmerited favor, alone. This doctrine means that nothing the sinner does commends him to the grace of God, and that the sinner does not cooperate with God in order to merit his salvation. Salvation, from beginning to end, is the sovereign gift of God to the unworthy and undeserving. As Paul wrote to the Corinthian Christians, who were inclined to boasting: “Who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?” (1 Cor. 4:7). No one can ever stand before God and say, “Look at me and at what I have done!” God is no one’s debtor, not least in matters of salvation (Rom. 11:35).

One passage of Scripture in which the doctrine of salvation by grace alone shines brightly is Ephesians 2:1–10. Paul wrote to the Ephesians after having ministered among them for some three years (Acts 20:31).

The letter to the Ephesians gives us a glimpse into the feast of teaching that Paul had set before that church. In the first chapter, Paul takes us into the “heavenly places” (1:3). He shows us the plan of the Father to save sinners by the work of His Son, a work that is applied and guaranteed by the Spirit. This plan is a lavish plan— the Father has “blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing” (v. 3). Above all, Paul stresses how this plan of redemption redounds to the praise of the glorious grace of God (vv. 6, 12, 14).

After pausing to thank God and to intercede for the Ephesians, Paul applies the heavenly realities of 1:3–14 to our individual Christian lives in 2:1–10. He twice stresses the fact that it is “by grace you have been saved” (2:5, . How is the grace of God evident in salvation? We see God’s grace on display, Paul says, when God makes the dead alive in Christ. To appreciate fully the grace of God, let us consider from Ephesians 2:1–10 what it means to be “dead” and what it means to be “alive.”

Who are the “dead”? They include the Ephesians. (“You were dead in … trespasses and sins,” v. 1.) They include Paul and his fellow Jews. (“We all once lived in the passions of our flesh,” v. 3.) In fact, they include every man, woman, and child in Adam. (“[We] were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind,” v. 3.) The “dead” include folks like you and I.

What does it mean to be “dead”? Paul points to three things in this passage. First, it means to be under condemnation. Before Christ, we were “dead in the trespasses and sins in which [we] once walked.” Death, God told Adam in Genesis 2, is the penalty for sin. When we violate the law of God, we stand guilty before this holy God, accountable to His justice. Second, to be dead means we were under the yoke. We served three masters—the world (“following the course of this world,” 2:2), the flesh (“we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind,” 2:3), and the Devil (“following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience,” 2:2) . Third, to be dead means we were under wrath. We “were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind” (2:3). We were justly subject to the holy displeasure of God for our sin. We were this way “by nature”— in other words, we were born into this condition.

Many do not accept this teaching. Outside the church, many assume that people are basically good. They tend to believe, at least implicitly, that if we give people the right education, examples, or laws, then they will follow the right path. Just laws, noble examples, and proper education are invaluable, but they are powerless to change a heart committed to its rebellion against God. Inside the church, many have said and still say that people are sick, even desperately sick. These sick people, however, are still said to have the wherewithal to respond to and cooperate with the grace of God. But Paul does not say we are sick. He says that apart from Christ, we are dead. Spiritually speaking, we are corpses in the ground without Jesus. We can no more draw near to God than a corpse can summon the strength to get out of its grave. That is how bad off we are outside of Christ.

Thankfully, Paul does not stop there. Beginning in verse 4, Paul turns from us to God, from the evil we have done to the good that God is doing in Christ. He highlights three things about the grace of God in the rest of this passage:

First, he points us to God’s work in verses 5–6: “God made us alive together with Christ— by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.” God raised Christ from the dead and seated Him at His right hand (1:18–20), and He has done something incredible to us in our union with Christ. God, Paul says, has made the dead alive. That is what evokes Paul’s exclamation, “By grace you have been saved” (2:5).

Second, Paul points us to God’s motive. Why did God make the dead alive? It was not because of our works, Paul says in verse 9, neither the works that we did before we became Christians nor the works we have done after we became Christians. Otherwise, we might have cause to “boast” (v. 9). Instead, Paul says, God made us alive because of His “mercy,” His “great love with which he loved us” (v. 4). Paul goes out of his way to impress upon us that God’s own love and mercy are the font of our salvation.

Third, Paul points us to God’s purpose. For what purpose did God make the dead alive? It was, Paul says in verse 7, that we might put on display, both now and in eternity, the “immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.” How do we do that? We do it by displaying in our lives the master workmanship of our Maker and Redeemer— we were “created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them” (v. 10).

We are saved, then, sola gratia—by the grace of God alone. Far from leading us to embrace lives of license and moral recklessness, the grace of God in the gospel leads us to pursue lives of consecration and holiness. Why is this so? The great hymnwriter Isaac Watts captured Paul’s point well when he wrote in his hymn “When I Survey the Wondrous Cross”: “Were the whole realm of nature mine, that were a present far too small, love so amazing, so divine, demands my soul, my life, my all.” Think about that the next time you sing of the amazing grace of God.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ was not a preacher... He was a message of a kind delivered to men and His mission (yes, the message had a mission enclosed) was to deliver that message (Himself) and that is what He accomplished in His time on earth. He was a teacher with a message and that message was He, the New Covenant that was promised to us all.

The preachers you know of were sent to preach (not teach) the original message of Jesus Christ, the gospel of the Kingdom of God...Jesus Christ is the only message they were meant to preach to the world.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of preachers deviated from the preaching of that one message and instead made themselves into teachers and motivational speakers, something Christ warned them against. As long as they teach the doctrines and traditions of men and not the message that is Jesus Christ, they ought to be shunned.

Why do certain people hate you on NL?