₦airaland Forum

MikeCZA:
SANDF.

WTF? Is that a bee mask?

andrewza:
Swaziland does have a land claim on south Africa

I would like to see that being settled over a gun... It would be interesting. Me living close to the Swazi border, I would get to witness all the SANDF machines at work.. Hehe

gottfried21:
About 12(I'm not that sure)
But I know for sure that they always have 6 Cf-5s at Sir Seretse Khama Intl.aiport on standby just in case shxt hits that fan anywhere...In regards to the J-10 my cousin is among the Namibian pilots traning in China on the platform and for now everything is very hush...They will be back by the end of this year so I'm expecting the first order soon...as we are getting rid of our F-7's(Remind you we lost three last year) and Swaziland is interested in purchasing them...I'll try to get him to spill more info

Swaziland buying jets for what now.... They hardly have a functional helicopter.

Henry240:
How many do they have in service, and are you guys still going for the J-10s? Any possible time frame yet on any sort of announcement?

.

LOL Henry240, what a question. I don't think he's in the weapons acquisition committee. We'll all know when it goes on the interwebs.

africaken254:
during the vietnam war the vietnamiese and russian were able to track and lock on the source of the jamming ,then guide a missile the source of the jamming .if you fly low your enter the zone of manpads and AAA's .today legacy systems can be upgraded so as to frequency hop,also Active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars can be networked with this legacy SAMs systems,thus giving an added advantage to this legacy systems.considering they are harder to jam and can operate in Low Probability of Intercept (LPI) modes to reduce the chance that the radar is detected.

Sir, andrewza showed you all sorts of EW we deploy from ground to air.

In case you didn't know, EW is dynamic and also upgradable. If the enemy uses the latest countermeasures, the EW guys also upgrades to counter it... We use Thales for EW platforms and they know their shit.

We can land an EW Denel Orxy on top of your Soviet era SAMs.

gottfried21:
Tactical demo

Something SANDF about this picture

africaken254:
the americans bombed hanoi because they knew the strategic importance of that city,if fresh suppliers of weapons,ammo,equipment's were being offloaded from ships in luanda port. isn't that a vital military target !?your also forgetting that back then UNITA was a well funded,equipped rebel than even syria FSA by the C.I.A only in comparison with the mujaheddin in Afghanistan.the real reason was you didn't want to escalate this war ,dragging neighbouring countries in support of the Angolan government

South African parliament didn't want the SADF inside Angola only the governing politicians did. When the Portuguese fell in Angola, the South African politicians used it as an opportunity to capture Luanda before Angola was declared independent... 3 small columns of the motorised troops were entered to take Luanda.

The 3 columns numbered less than 200 soldiers, they were very successful in pushing aside whatever defense Angola threw in. Just those few guys took half the country and handed it over to UNITA. They were approaching Luanda when the Cubans intervened with heavy weaponry and for the first time an Eland 90 vehicle was lost, which made the Cubans broadcast their propaganda internationally.

When the South African parliament saw the Eland 90 on the news, they immediately questioned the operation and forced the generals to pull off whatever assets the SADF had inside Angola because the campaign was never authorised by parliament... Parliament only allowed border patrols and all the bombings the SAAF took were permitted as tactical strikes somewhere close to the border. So South Africa was never gonna bomb Luanda openly, we hadn't declared war on them like we did with the Germans in Namibia or Italians or the Koreans.... However if Angola had declared war on South Africa openly, then they'd feel the might of the SADF.

As for the other African countries, what you might not know is that Zambia and the Zaire were actually supporting South Africa in getting rid of the Communists in Angola especially the Cubans. As much as other SADC hated Apartheid South Africa but they could not do anything militarily about it even when South African Special Forces did countless incursions in their territories.

Remember this, if the most armed country in SADC (South Africa excluded) couldn't get rid of just 3% of the SADF then what hope would the rest of SADC have if things went full scale war.

africaken254:
SA-3,SA-6,SA-8 have an Optical/laser/infra-red tracking device to allow launching of missiles without the use of the radar,dont also forget several other russian manpads

They're prone to electronic jamming which is what the EW Denel Orxy and Gripen would do.

If all fails, we fly the SKUA so they give out their location then take them out with long range artillery.

To get things straight, the SADF was a well oiled war machine. The only African country that could pose a threat was Egypt. The fact that the SADF spent so much time in Angola was simply because the South African parliament didn't allow a bigger deployment of troops because neither Cubans or SWAPO posed as eminent threat to South Africa. The biggest amount of troops ever allowed was just 4000 with a handful tanks JUST because Cubans/Angolans were building up heavy armour towards the border with Namibia.

As for the aircrafts, the SAAF still flew in southern Angola despite the presence of the MiG23. It is the Angolan/Cubans who failed to kick the SADF very hard when they had the lasted war gear.

So all in all, the SADF deployed roughly 3% of its force.

africaken254:
with what ! alpha jets,F-5's,F-7,mig-21 e.t.c if you claimed you had again air superiority over angolan airspace why were you not able to bomb luanda or deny the angloans and cubans from launching their air crafts against south african forces.like america did in gulf war 1 !!!??

Sir, South Africa was never officially at war with Angola. We never declared war on them so we would have never bothered bombing Luanda. SWAPO was the reason why the SADF was there and the Angolans were not happy that we entered their country illegal. So they were the ones trying to get rid of us but they'd loose their lives everytime they tried it hence they called in the Cubans (who also paid dearly everytime they tried helping out).

Just so you know, parliament never approved more than 4000 troops for Angola. Also, they were never allowed to officially go deeper into Angola hence the name "Border War"... If South Africa wanted Angola, it would have fallen easily to South African hands just like Namibia did.

africaken254:
obsolete !! i can assure you no sub sahara africa countries has an efficient and effective capability to penetrate an air defence system which consist of soviet era legancy systems e.g SA-2,SA-3 e.t.c mind you this same soviet era legacy SAM systems are now being upgraded by russia,former easten bloc countries

That thing won't even get off the ground even when the EW Denel Orxy helicopter flew over it.

Henry240:
P18N Nigerian Navy's NNS Unity, F92.

Beautiful boat.

Beautiful indeed

MikeCZA:
The battle of Bangui imagine if the regional decided to intervene and SA had to capture Bangui again.


The air port there would be a sought after target by rebels still in the city. Mortars, Chinese rocket launchers etc.


Or say the FIB had to retake Goma from M23.


Paratroopers or elite troops can be insisted into the air port seize it to be used as a command post, logistics base etc. Aircraft bring supplies will be a target hard to ignore so attempts will be made to destroy them on the ground.

I'm not denying the value of C-RAM systems, however missiles are very costly to be integrated.

In a case like Bangui where cheap rockets would be fired at the airport... How many missiles would one have to use to deflect those many rockets?. Remember rockets and mortar are cheaper and easily available than missiles and you would just run out of them within a few minutes of while rockets and mortar would be sustained for hours-on-end.

MikeCZA:
I concur.

But missiles are still better.


Auto-cannons spent more time on a single target. Effectiveness of them is a bit iffy when dealing with super sonic anti-ship missiles.

Besides replacing the dual purpose guns with another cannon based platform would mean getting something foreign. The Rheimetall revolver gun(Naval version) of the Skyshield being the likely system to be acquired.

Imagine the Biro vessels with: 76mm gun, Remote controlled machine gun, The C-RAM missile and the Mokopa missile. Way heavily armed.

I believe there's a market.

You forgot the Umkhonto SAM, even if it's just 8 of them are fitted. You'd need a submarine to get rid of one when roaming in your waters

MikeCZA:
Doctrine and SOPs would be drawn on how many missiles are fired at a single target.

In most African peace missions the rear areas stretch into the nearest cities. With us Africans we can't supply our forces with air drops.

It's easier to smuggle weapons into the cities. Peacekeepers can't open amd search every bag of coal coming into the city.

Unless there's very important objects you're protecting in your base, like aircrafts or a person like Nelson Mandela is around THEN the costs are justifiable otherwise not even JZ is worth that saving.

ssaengine:
120mm mortars can hit at 4,5,6,7km +. It is not beyond belief that enemy combatants can sneak such a system within range.

Then they can't smuggle as much shells with them. After that they may have to deal with a quick reaction gunship which would be way cheaper than firing missiles.

ssaengine:
Um...what if it's a 120mm mortar which is about to take out an entire section?

How many missiles would one have to fire to stop free falling mortar shells?

If mortar hits a machanised or motorised platoon, they can simply press on and gunships can deal with it. BUT if it's a base or camp that's under 120mm attack, then definitely someone is not doing his perimeter patrol because how on earth does an enemy sneak in such a big firing pipe within range.

patches689:
Missiles are fvck expensive though

Cheaper to look at a auto-cannon based platform

True that, nothing justifies firing a missile at an oncoming projectile if the projectile itself is not a missile.

Off topic question Henry240, where's Augububu? I remember him because I saw a comment he made on DefenceWeb.

frumentius:
I dont think they came to sell; just display.

Display = Marketing
So definitely they're hoping to raise interest in their product.

tdayof:
MQ9

Each unit costing as much as Henry240's beloved L-15. I personally think they're in the wrong market place.

Odunayaw:
from time memorial we buy in pairs the NNS unity is d sister ship of NNS centenary which have been delivered

The NNS Aradu was a solo frigate though.

LTGEN:
http://www.vanguardngr.com/2016/09/nigerian-navy-acquires-new-vessel-china/
NN UNITY will be arriving in November 2016.

Why do Nigerian generals buy 1 ship like this and 1 ship like that? Why ain't they buying a fleet in a single platform?

africaken254:
if south African was keen on marketing the gripen and Hawk 120 jet ,may be by now a number of them would have being acquired in Africa.

It's a missed opportunity considering that Denel assembled most of the SAAF Hawk with ATE (now part of Paramount Group) fitting the avionics. It's could have been a win for the local aviation industry.

Henry240:
The only threat they have come from Botswana, That's it. One more, the FA-50 is a light multi-role fighter jet in the same class as the Gripen, JF-17 and LCA. I don't see how the FA-50 is obsolete or less advanced than it's competitors.

Dude, the FA-50 is an advanced trainer don't dare compare it with the Griffin.

Henry240:
Very good choice for Zambia. Instead of the J-10, Namibia should go for this or the FA-50. Mali, Burkina-Faso, Ivory Coast and Cameroun should also consider the L-15.

Surrounded by neighbors with advanced platforms, the FA-50 would be obsolete.

frumentius:
Or, instead of starting from scratch, come in as 50% partner with Denel so the Bateleur -stalled after the prototype because of a lack of funds - can finally be developed.

Maybe sell the idea to the Saudis as the US refused selling them the Predictor. That could work out as the Saudis already have a stock of Denel's Impi Missiles they could integrate.

andrewza:
Namibia should join Botswana in getting Gripens. SAAB and Denel have a full set up support serves in South Africa.

The Gripen is an expensive machine for small economies.... And besides, Namibia doesn't seem to like using weapon systems South Africa uses.

But that's my 20 cents.

Henry240:
Are you sure you seeing the photo i shared?

Exactly my point... The guys have their GEAR

Henry240:
You guys misunderstood me. I didn't say you started doing HALO jumps recently, everybody does HALO jumps. I've seen photos of old SADF with their gear.


I'm saying unless there is proven evidence, the more recent SASFB gear which is similar to what the Namibians use was first launched by Namibia. I'm basing my argument on the date of the photo.

Henry, different countries use different gear for different doctrines. I don't recall the SASFB using the same kit as Namibians (or copying them). The date you're talking about is of the new jump simulator.

Henry240:
Dude, i'm quite sure you are aware i'm not your average military nut. I know fully well what i'm talking about. I'm referring to the gear not the HALO jump.

So you're saying the SA Special Forces guys were jumping without the gear for almost 40 years? That should have been witchcraft.

Henry240:
It's Namibia, not RSA. They also got the HALO gear long before the SASFB. These photos are from 2014, and you only received your gear in August of 2016.

Hehehe Henry, the SA Special Forces were doing HALO in the 80s in Angola.... That's over 30 years ago.