₦airaland Forum

@4 Play,

4 Play:
@AFAM

I asked u earlier whether u concluded that Isreal has no obligations as per 1948 borders to which u replied that is not your conclusion.Now u say that it is

I replied that I do not arrive at conclusions the way you do because the issue of Israel withdrawing to pre 1948 borders was not in the equation even though you have failed to see that till today. You don't lead me in discussions, you don't decide what I must comment on. Your inability to understand a statement should not be a reason to waste everyone's time.

4 Play:
Was there a Palestinian state from which Israel seized land before 1967 to which it has an obligation to return the land.Have u ever read RESOLUTION 242 passed in the immediate aftermath of the 1967 war?It does not place a unilateral obligation on Isreal to withdraw from occupied lands but to withdraw within the context of a comprehensive peace agreement with its neighbours.

Resolutions? Do you know the number of UN resolutions that Israel has ignored till date simply because the UN backs Israel? Do you know how many resolutions that the US has vetoed when it concerns Israel?

As someone that claims to understand international law you should understand the inticacies of what transpires in the global arena.

4 Play:
One good thing about bringing u to task about your statements is that u are backing away from some of your wilder statements about the conflict and conducting a more reasoned discourse.I am dedicating the time I should use for studying to make u justify your postings and it seems to be paying off

Better face your studies so you don't lose on both ends. If we were doing a face to face conversation I would have said bye bye to you a long time ago based on the level of reasoning you display.

I take time to reply for the benefit of others that may not see through your wrong and confused statements.

make no mistake about it, I state my position on anything I bother to discuss and in doing so you will not see lies because I discuss only issues I understand and when asked about something I don't know I make it clear that I do not know it, it is not a crime not to know something and infact it is 100% better for you not to know something than for you to claim you know what you know nothing about.

I have been waiting in vain to read about your acknowledgements of the wrong statements you have made, instead you keep moving from one wrong statement to another.

@4Play,

I hope you do understand that this is a public forum, not a UN security council where decisions taken affect real things in the world.

Bush may not be tried based on all the reasons stated by you but that does not exclude the opinions stated by others who think that he should be tried for ordering the illegal invasion that has brought complete chaos and carnage in Iraq and more importantly has set the stage for increase in the hatred and grooming of terrorists.

Osama bin Laden is still free and even Bush conceded that Saddam/Iraq had not business with 9/11.

I believe he should be tried even though the way the UN and similar bodies are structured will make this an impossibility, a system that protects the strong while the commit atrocities against the weak will only create an environment where the security of the strong cannot be guaranteed.

You can make your position on any issue clear without manufacturing lies to support your position.

@4Play and Mariory,

Exactly my point. The issue on this thread is not Iraqi politics as you guys are shamelessly trying to turn it into.

The issue has been whether Bush should also face trial and the attendant responses as to whether the people of Iraq support or oppose the illegal invasion.

Polls, surveys and positions of the government be it executive or legislative arm are more important in this regard when compared to political parties, many of which may not even be in government.

This is akin to stating that the position of Nigerians is the position of say FRESH political party in Nigeria even when the political power is not even part of the government.

There is a great deal of difference between political parties and the government. Hope this won't be too much information to comprehend.

I will try as much as possible to respond to posts if only to clarify some of the misinformation being dubiously fed to the public on this forum.

I have stated that I will rather not bother knowing what I am not interested in knowing than displaying ignorance on a public forum by making wrong statements.

dayokanu:
@ Afam can't you just address issues as 4play and myself are doing? look at our statements and compare it to your responses
Instead you side step the issue and go ahead to say something else or attack personality
It would be better for you to admit that you did not get your points right than to continue embarrassing yourself in public.

@Dayokanu,

Do you live in outer space? You imagine that you are addressing issues when you cannot even understand the issue at hand. Don't worry about the issue of attacking personality, I only reply in kind and I do so very well, you may need to remind yourself of your silly post that I responded to.

4 Play:
@Afam

What then is your position on Isreali obligations as per 1948?

U can rebut my claim that u are confused by clarifying your postion once and for all

@4 Play,

I will take your last post to mean that you now concede that you cannot understand my statement, not that there was anything extraordinary in it anyway.

I need to also make it clear to you that the issue of Israel's obligations as per 1948 has never been an issue on our exchanges thus far, however I will answer your question so you can understand my position.

Israel was created in 1948. Israel is not expected go back to pre 1948, put differently, I do not believe it makes any sense to ask Israel to go back to pre 1948.

However, for us to have sustainable peace in the middle east (as most, if not all the problems have something to do with the Israel/Palestine issue), Israel should go back to pre 1967 borders and a state of Palestine be created.

Let me explain the last paragraph before you misunderstand me. The lands seized in the 1967 war should be returned to the Palestinians.

NB: I hope there is nothing in this response that remotely implies that Israel should go back to pre 1948 borders.

@TayoD,

You have only reproduced part of what I stated you lied about. Tell them the true story, it is ridiculous that you have suddenly attempted to reproduce part of what you avoided reproducing when you came out with lie that a bomb was not only discovered but detonated and went ahead to rain abuses on Allah and muslims.

To the reproduced quote proper, the senate is an institution and what that institution says can be correctly stated to be a representation of the will of the people (whether this is correct or not).

On the issue on ground, the senate in Iraq did not issue a statement frowning at the US report. A link to a website that I have never even heard of stated that Iraqi politicians are not happy with the US position based on the report.

Again this statement you reproduced actually undermines your position if looked at critically "I have not provided you with any contradictions. A Senator's stand is not necessarily that of his constituency.".

I guess it goes to support my arguement that the position of the politicians may be selfish and not in the interest of the Iraqis. Thanks for helping me pass across that point, hope 4 Play will be able to forgive you for that.

@ 4 Play,

Before we forget, could be point us to the source of your information that SCIRI, KDP and PUK all want the US to stay in Iraq?

Getting a handle on this will help us streamline this discussion lest we start building on a foundation that does not exist.

@4Play,

International law? May God help anyone that engages you in that line as you will become a total disaster.

With your international law, you boldly stated that UN sanctioned the US led invasion of Iraq - a blatant lie.

With your international law, you do not see any reason why Bush should be held accountable for ordering the illegal invasion of Iraq that has caused so many deaths.

Common sense, not even based on professional law should tell you that if Saddam could be tried for ordering the execution of those that were tried for the failed assasination attempt then it makes perfect sense to try Bush for ordering an illegal invasion.

Premiership and Political parties, I won't be surprised if you still shift the goal post to accomodate rugby.

One more thing, it is a good thing to always accept responsibility of what you know and what you don't know. While it would have been easy to decipher or search for the meaning of the political parties you stated, I decided against that because I do not load unnecessary information in my head, I prefer to leave enough room to process information.

I will prefer not to know something than for me to be consistently wrong on what I think I know. Hope you will learn a thing or two from this statement.

I can bet my last kobo that you are not practicing international law.

While you have been wrong on so many occassions on this issue you still try to waste valuable space focusing on issues that do not have a direct bearing on the positions canvassed thus far.

@4Play,

Your diversionary tactics won't work. You are gradually shifting the issue to political parties, something that is clearly off point in the illegal invasion of Iraq.

You build premises off thin air and proceed to use them in your continued open ended analysis.

You posted a link that stated that some politicians in Iraq are not happy about the US report.

I responded that what the people think is more important than what the politicians think just as the American people told the world in very clear terms that they are not happy with the way the Bush administration is handling issues especially in Iraq.

You responded that Ali Sistani is in support of the continued stay even though he is not a politician but a religous leader.

In explaining to you why the views of the people are more important than that of politicians, I gave you an example that should ordinarily drive home the point and your brought in PDP and proceeded to wrongly state that I need not compare PDP with political parties that I do not even know about.

Again you are flat wrong in the area of not discusing a country unless you know about the political parties because I am sure that if you are asked to state the political parties in Israel, Lebanon you may not know them unless you use google.

Your simplistic approach to issues that require honest and sincere analysis may make you feel good but in reality it goes to show the level of awareness and understanding of the issues you choose to discuss.

Maybe by the time you are done on this topic you will end up discussing toys found on some Iraqi children somewhere in Iraq.

@Mariory,

You never disappoint, you never have a mind of your own, I am yet to read where you make your opinions known apart from making one line statements and copying and pasting links for people to go and read.

It is sad that many intelligent people have left this forum otherwise I can't imagine you being able to make contributions here.

On Israel/Lebanon, I have been consistently right and you have been consistently wrong in your analysis and the events have clearly proven this. And to justify your wrong analysis your group have chosen to brand those that were right "politically correct" even when your group have been politically incorrect and morally incorrect.

Maybe it will take you another 2 weeks to see a point you disagree with or a reason to laugh.

4 Play,

Your link clearly showed that some Iraqi politicians are not happy and these politicians usually protect their selfish interests not the interest of the people they are supposed to protect.

Ali Sistani and co are religious leaders not politicians. Again, you have correctly stated that they have influence over the Shias, does that influence also cover the Sunnis, the Kurds or the Christains in Iraq?

Still on polls conducted by so many media, the majority in Iraq want the US out.

I need not compare PDP to SCIRI, KDP and PUK because I don't even know what they mean.

This is great for our democracy and goes to show that the judiciary is not in the pocket of the executive.

Let us see the kind of legal acrobatics that can be used to delay or deny the reinstatement.

4Play,

A call for President George W. Bush to reduce US support to Iraq if Baghdad fails to improve security drew a sour response from Iraqi politicians, who said Washington had an obligation to back their government.

The reproduced quote above is the very first paragraph on the link you referenced.

What ordinary Iraqis say is more important to what politicians say.

I live in Nigeria today and the average politician (those not in the opposition, assuming we have any) will readily tell you that Nigeria is doing well and that majority of Nigerians are happy about the state of affairs even though in reality it is a wrong statement.

Thanks for showing me a new online news website. Didn't the mainstream media have anything to say about the US panel report and what the Iraqis think about it?

Maybe it will help to know the context the statement was made so as not to assume too much.

In my opinion, every Nigerian has the right to talk about Nigeria but in doing so he/she should be factual and should have a fair understanding of what is happening in the country not sometimes wrong statements that have no foundations whatsoever.

In reality, Nigerians abroad cannot do much regardless of what they say, the onus lies with Nigerians living in Nigeria to effect changes because they are the ones that are directly affected by the good governance or otherwise.

@Nilla,

Thanks my friend for pointing these "wise men" to what they should be aware of.

The americans they are desparately trying to defend made a statement in the last mid term elections and the statement was that the current situation was unacceptable and they needed change.

Rumsfeld, gone, Bolton, gone, Gates agreeing that US wasn't winning the war in Iraq and agreed that a lot of changes needs to made, the US Iraq study group came out with many recommendations including the US engaging Iran and Syria directly, something our lying Bush has consistently said the US will not do, yet the whole world is trying to solve the avoidable poblem that his careless and deliberate lie caused in Iraq.

If he eventually agrees to a direct talk with either Iran or Syria or even both, then he is confused otherwise he should resign.

Yet, on this forum we see people defending a country that the citizens have indicted and made serious changes by way of votes.

It's like fighting for someone that says "go to hell, I don't need your help" and yet these confused people here will not see beyond their religous prisms.

Another interesting scenario will be in Britain if the US goes ahead with the recommendations because that will leave Blair out in the cold since he decided to follow Bush blindly even though his own people have pressured him to leave office before his tenure ends, a direct consequence of the illegal invasion of Iraq.

@4Play,

I am bold enough to make my position very clear on issues because I make up my mind based on facts and devoid of unnecessary sentiments and bias.

Yes, the killing of Iraqis in the southern part of the country when the coalition forces were pushing them back (though wrong, in that civilians were killed and not soldiers) is what most countries will do simply because they were supporting and aiding the enemy. If you cannot understand that, tough luck.

Sympathy for the terrorists? Where did you get that from? Another confused position from a vague understanding of issues? I have stated over 10 or 12 times on this forum especially in the Israel/Lebanon thread that the killing of innocent ones by anyone, group or country is wrong regardless of the reasons given for the killing.

Maybe in your warped sense of information processing, you have concluded that the statement in bold means sympathy for the terrorists and that I do not condemn the violence they unleash.

I can blame people for their wrong while pointing out the reasons for one even taking to arms in the first place. While discussing terrorism it is equally important to understand why terrorists exist, why people chose that part, what led to the current situation. Not wanting to take a holist approach to the issue will amount to playing the ostrich (hope you understand that sha).

If the long message directed at you ends up in confusing you the more, no vex because you have displayed an embarassing level of inability to comprehend basic and simple statements here.

4Play & Dayokanu,

It is funny that up till now the two of you cannot understand the statement you are hammering upon.

Maybe it has to do the your level of awareness or your lack of understanding of written words.

I, for one cannot do anything to help you other than the pointers I have given which both of you have clearly not understood.

I hope people do not use your level of understanding to generalize about Nigerians because that will be bad news.

There is a huge difference between not being able to communicate well and one's inability to understand a statement, do not confuse the 2.

And again Nigeria is extremely rich, forget the mismanagement of our resources and insincerity of purpose of our leaders.

I dare say Nigeria is one country that can survive on its own with its vast natural and human resources.

I only hope that we will get leaders that will strive to promote the interest of Nigeria and Nigerians above all other interests, only then will the world stop making use of the word potential when discussing Nigeria.

It is only unfortunate that some Nigerians (even those living in the so called developed world) are never confident enough to defend their being Nigerians, inferiority complex I guess.

I agree that Nigeria will become a dream destination for many, even as at today our airports are filled with foreigners that come to Nigeria with plans to stay for a long long time.

Just solve the leadership wahala and Nigeria will be the envy of the world.

What do you expect when Nigerians break a lot of academic records in the developed world?

Sometimes, it is sheer envy and jealousy.

Nigeria has its own share of bad guys but those who complain the most have worse stories to tell.

419 is something that is done by 2 people not 1, so is the collaborator the good guy?

Over 70% of all online scams have nothing to do with Nigeria yet the average american that does not even know that Africa is a continent and not a country will ignorantly say rubbish about what he/she knows very little about.

@Nilla,

How you dey jare and do accept my belated congrats on your exams. Wishing you the very best.

@Dayokanu,

I feel bad, I feel disappointed, I feel embarassed that you still find it supremely difficult to understand the rhetorical statement you are wasting your energy on.

Who is interested in asking people to vacate lands they occupied thousands of years ago?

Do ask any friend you have to help you interpret the very statement that is causing all the unnecessary post especially as regards the context, premise or assumption for making the statement.

In reality, if you understood the statement, you would have realised that it goes to undermine the erronous statement by those that tend to portray Israel as always willing to give back lands as if it is dashing people lands.

I do hope that such inability to understand very basic discussions or comments like these are not the reasons why I can't find a lot of intelligent users of this forum again.

Ask any friend you have, someone should be able to help you out, I really cannot do much to make you understand the statement even with all the pointers thus far.

@4 Play,

It is a shame that you have not been able to understand the statement that has been giving your stress up till now.

Take your time, read the statement again and attempt to understand the very clear message.

I will give you a little help here, my statement was based on the erronous statement that Israel was always giving back lands as if Israel was dashing people lands.

Based on this erronous statement, I wondered (based on the incorrect premise) why Israel has not deemed it fit to return everyland it occupies today including the pre 1948 lands.

That you fail to see the wrong premise which I based the rhetorical statement isn't really a surprise.

I always maintain that half knowledge is really dangerous and your complete misunderstanding of a simple statement here goes to show the level of intellect you posses.

@Dayokanu,

I guess you ave made a reasonable contribution on the topic at hand by writing about half truth and contacting Afam.

I have gone beyond the level you are currently operating long time ago.

The advice/explanation given to 4Play may apply to you if you are humble enough to know when you lack understanding and being able to understand statements before drawing conclusions from them.

And I am certain if you are asked to reproduce a single half truth by Afam you will start writing about everything but the statement you may be asked to reproduce.

As regards insults, do not bother yourself too much because I never hesitate to reply in kind and I do that very well because I cannot stand a person that is both ignorant and stupid.

@Texazzpete,

Hope you don't get too tied up with people that never want to get in touch with reality.

I guess Bush and his kitchen cabinet believed they knew better than everyone else about the happenings in Iraq until the mid term elections.

That Rumsfeld resigned followed by Bolton and Gates stating things the way they really are, I guess its time for a lot of the blind supporters of Bush to do a self appraisal.

Maybe, only in the imaginations of some religous bigots do we see the majority supporting the carnage in Iraq.

Real shame.

That is a better approach, at least until you are mature enough to reason and discuss like a human being.

How I wish you knew the meaning of half truths as you have been proven wrong by events on most of your wrong positions based on hypocrisy and religious bigotry.

David Adenuga or whatever you call yourself, I thought I had asked you to contribute when you are through with your free education as I won't be wasting time on another empty barrel on this forum.

You have displayed enough ignorance while hiding same in religious bigotry for me to write more than a few lines responding to you.

4Play,

I am really sick with the way you twist positions shamelessly.

The portions of your statements you reproduced though had references to non Shiites related incidents had absolutely nothing to do the issue of no fly zones which prompted the dates and reasons for the imposition of no fly zones.

I feel sorry for you is you are making this mistake genuinely. You can as well ask me to check out a different post where you stated something about Saddam and Kurds.

The issue at hand is simple, your reasons for imposition of no fly zones where wrong, you stated nothing about the Kurds which makes nonsense of your position that the killing of the Shias prompted the imposition of the no fly zones.

And now, you point to statements well before the issue of the no fly zone.

I believe everyone is capable of making mistakes but when one makes a mistake and is desparately trying to justify the mistake rather than make amends then such a person should be despised and treated as scum.

I cannot imagine the lenght you are going to prove what is already very clear. Honestly, I regret ever wasting my time on your posts.

Anyone that can go the lenght you are going to twist an issue according to my books is a common criminal.

are all you deserve.

Me? Explain what you are trying to grasp to you? Never, continue with your childish way of reasoning. You are doing well in that regard anyway.

Na wah ooo, so you have gradually introduced the slaughter of Kurds in the North, something that wasn't part of your statement that I objected to.

Do yourself a favour and reproduce where you referenced the saughter of Kurds in the Kurd and I will tender an unreserved apology right now.

My problem is that you tend to use other peoples post to build yours and at the end of the day you turn round to claim ownership of posts you never originated.

Reference your post on the slaughter of the Kurds in the North and lets see who is twisting issues here, don't bother modifying your post right now to include this new angle.

No, that is not my conclusion, do you imagine I arrive at conclusions the way you do? And I won't be doing you any favour to explain to you the meaning of the original post.

@4Play,

Do you really think through posts at all or do you just glance through, conclude based on nothing and proceed to make crazy posts?

4Play,

I will not engage in an endless debate over well documented events.

The issue of no fly zone came after the 1st gulf war, after the Iraqi occupation of Kuwait and the subsequent coalition of the willing that had the support of a lot of nations.

You may need to check your information and what you are referencing before talking about erronous information.

The problem with Kurds in the North and Shiites in the South as regards Sunnis started long since or even before Saddam became head of state.

The US never condemned any of the major atrocities commited by Saddam for the reasons earlier stated.

It might even interest you to know that a serving member of the Iraq government today stated that he was able to get to Washington to draw the attention of the crimes being commited by Saddam to those at the White house then and he was politely told that the US was not willing to jeopardise the good relationship they enjoyed with Saddam.

My last word on the issue of Saddam's crimes and the criminal silence that greeted them by the US when the going was good.

I have reproduced my response to your confused mindset about imposing no fly zones in the northern and southern part of Iraq. Shiite do not exist in the northern part of Iraq, the Kurds do, you may take time to learn why the no fly zones were imposed on the north and on the south.

Certainly one cannot split yur skull open to make you assimilate simple issues that are well documented. The only sad part of your incoherent and sometimes outrageus lies is that it may make one see the forum as a place for beer parlour discussions.

Representing myself in the 3rd person is my business and even though you may never understand why, it still has nothing to do with your ridiculous lies here. The correctness or otherwise of a foreign/borrowed language is not as serious as outright lies being manufactured and spread without shame.

Enjoy and continue in your folly and confused statements.

4 Play:
@Afam

your claim that the no-fly zones were not imposed as a result of post Gulf War massacres was blatantly false.Perhaps u saw that on TV all by yourself.

What do you expect when you argue with a confused human being?

It is ridiculous that Afam explained the reason for the impositin of the no fly zones after the first gulf war (operation desert storm) and yet you have a confused person turning arund after search google to state that I do not agree that the no fly znes were imposed after operation desert storm even when the specific time was stated by Afam.

4 Play, contribution no be by force, if you don't understand something, take time to learn about it and stop jumping from one wrong statement to another.

You are certainy on your own with your very wrong statement as quoted above.

1000 watts which is 1kv,36 volts is #30,000
1500 watta Other combination from 36 to 60 volts is #60,000

And why would you setup inverters with the configurations quoted above?

And 1000watts is not 1kv? (1kva)

While these configurations are doable I think it is bad practice to set them up anyway unless you hae a very good reason to do so.

Can your charger with 4 hrs maximum charge a 1000 watts 36 volts 200Ah battery bank in 4 hrs?

@Kennyuche,

My2cents have provided very valid pointers to the issue and what information you may require.

I am niot aware of any regulator right now, I guess the quality of web prjects you develop will ultimately determine if yu will make a living out of it or if it will remain a hooby for you.

You certainy do not need to acquire any certificates whatsoever to become a very good web developer or even a web programmer.

Practice, practice, practice and be open to criticisms where positive or negative especially the negative ones.

For those that wondered if indeed Israel collect taxes on behalf of Palestinians the correct answer is that Israel ifact do collect taxes on behalf of Palestinians.

I recommend people genuinely see to learn more on issues theyt bother to discuss as a discussion forum has its limitations.

Somene talked about Israel giving up lands, giving up lands that belonged to who? If Israel enjoys dashing people land as is criminally being smuggled into the discussion then they should stop complaining and give up every single land that they claimed since 1948 and even they ones they forcefully took from the peope they met there when they decided to form a jewish home state after the holocaust.

@Texazzpete,

I dey jare. Exodus ke? I try to contribute on issues that catch my fancy and once I log off that's the end.

@4Play,

Sincerely, joining issues with you is a waste of time. I cannot send you any link because I hae stated erer that I see these polls n TV and I do not record tem on my machine to replay later or to point you to it.

You have been consistently wrong in the obvious lie that the UN mandated the US to illegally invade Iraq based on fabricated lies.

Well, thank God for the Americans that made a point with the results of the last mid term election, otherwise many here would have had us believe that tew majority of Americans are solidly behind Bush.

Even the leaked memo of Rumsfeld tends to support the position of the so called critics of the Bush administration and suggested that the US even dish out money to powerful Iraqi religious leaders like Saddam did, maybe Saddam knew how to mainatain law and order in Iraq more than the clueless Bush.

So, 4Play, stop jumping from one wrong statement to another and depending on google too much for information may have its disadvantages. Use search engines intelligently or you may end up being confused.

China is preparing for a good market for its products.

Africa is a perfect market as other continents are maxed out and competition fierce.

The president of Sudan and Zimbabwe may be labelled bad by the West but have we not seen the same West support even the most brutal dictatorships in our own Africa before?

The idea of the West labelling any country that refuses to take instructions from either White House or No 10 Downing Street is becoming boring and with the recent happenings in the Middle east such style don't have any reasonable lifespan the way things are going today.

With China having over 1 trillion dollars as external reserves as against 20 billion dollars for the US (plus over 7 trillion dollars in debt) China is the bride that any country will like to do business with.

Should China even decide to trade in any currency but the dollars today, then the end of dollar power may be near.