₦airaland Forum

Funny enough North Korea just conducted 2 nuclear missile tests a couple of hours ago.

Maybe they hope to use nuclear weapon to trade for food. Trade by barter.

Both the publication and the thread have 2006 as date and Nigerians are here debating the correctness or otherwise in the second half of 2009.

Na wahooo.

From google maps to youtube screen shots.

Who says you are not versatile?

Thanks for the figures and references sha.

It has been stated over and over again that Ojukwu was not the ambitious person people try to paint him to be and as a matter of fact he fought a war that the yorubas would have fought but for Brig Gen Ogundipe refusing to take over command as the most senior surviving army officer when Gen Ironsi was killed and that was normal military protocol.

Ojukwu never waged a war against Nigeria, he simply insisted that Brig Gen Ogundipe should take over as the president which was right thinking.

That single mistake by Brig Gen Ogundipe led to the many problems we have had in Nigeria where the North sees itself as the most qualified region to lead Nigeria since they got away with that major blunder.

People tend to forget that both the Eastern Region and the the Federal Government more or less ran parallel government for about one full year including the famous Aburi accord that Gowon signed but Britain encouraged and advised him not to implement.

Those who fail to learn from history are bound to repeat the same mistake again.

Talking about who a true hero is then talk about Fajuyi who chose death even when he had a chance to remain alive when Ironsi was about being killed. He stood by his guest and commander in chief even in the face of death even though he was a Yoruba man. He remains one of the bravest Nigerian and will continue to earn the respect of all well meaning Nigerians.

russellino:
i remember when it was popular gist that just after the annulment of june 12, MKO met with Ojukwu to sound him out on what he thought of the matter. As legend has it , Ojukwu said "Moshood my friend, goodmorning and welcome to Nigeria". Nigeria has been on the wrong footing since 1966 and all the crap going on now in the niger delta is not new, especially not to the people of the south-east. God dey

The content in bold refers, you may want to confirm the identity of the good morning response. I think he told that to Saro Wiwa and not MKO. Just check to be sure sha.

@RichyBlack & Negro_Ntns,

Thanks for your posts.

I have longed realized that truth will always win any battle and war over lies and that lies will always fall like a pack of lies.

Unfortunately, when we speak out against injustices happening to some people in different parts of the world some of us would wrong claim that we are pro this and anti that.

What these people fail to realize is that what goes around comes around and the crime you may support or approve of today may turn around to haunt you tomorrow.

The whole issue of nuclear technology and nuclear weapon is funny to me because if anyone believes it is a bad thing to have then why keep them? Why build them? Why selectively apply rules depending on nations you call friends and those you call foes.

All the lies and conspiracy theories manufactured and spread by some of the powerful nations continue to crumble by the day. The only sad thing is that because of these lies innocent lives are wasted and those responsible are usually never brought to book.

For example why would the US tell us you are not allowed to try their soldiers in your own lands in spite of atrocities they commit from rape to execution of innocent families? Why protect soldiers who have committed crimes in other lands by all means even with enough evidence to prosecute them?

Something is not right here and until such hypocrisy, lies, double standards, bullying etc stop it will be very difficult to achieve sustainable peace because people will always rise up to challenge such so when people talk about Hezbollah, Hamas etc they fail to ask themselves how these groups came about. It is very important to understand their history and in doing so we can now decide to label them as either terrorists or freedom fighters because let us face it, for the simple fact that HAMAS won a landslide in an election no one (but the people of Palestine) gave them any chance even with the US supporting their main opposition FATAH goes to show that those the West may choose to call terrorists out of say convenience may mean a whole lot to a people, a race or a generation of people that have seen great injustices in their lives and would not mind supporting those bold enough to attempt to get them out of the inhuman treatment they are being subjected to by others just because of their race or religion.

Unfortunately again, many of us look at these issues with very stiff mindsets usually based on bias and religious affiliations where a regular Christian would want to side with US or Israel while a regular Muslim would want to side with countries like Iran, Iraq and the Palestinian people regardless of the facts on ground.

If anyone believes that a nuclear weapon is bad then no country should be allowed to develop or keep what they must have developed in the past.

On Iran, there is no single proof that the nation is developing nuclear weapon but even if it is developing one it has the right to do so as long as any nation believes it can develop the same weapon.

Having a nuclear weapon these days seems to be a status thing and other countries don't mess with you. So if the powerful nations do what they like and get away with them because of such weapons in their arsenal then why would smaller or weaker nations not aspire to own them?

Both India and Pakistan went nuclear within 3 weeks of one of them testing and basically announcing to the world that it now has one.

These 2 nations are aware of what each other is capable of doing but none of them has so far used the weapon maybe out of respect for each other.

Maybe, countries that have problems with other countries should acquire them and it will more or less balance the equation.

For example, would Israel have dared to destroy the infrastructure of Syria based on Hezbollah's action if Syria had nuclear weapon? in my opinion NO.

Meanwhile, it is on record that the US remains the only country that have used an atomic bomb even in civilian area and not the countries the West seems to be worried about in the Arab world.

ElRazur:

More diversion and irrelevant post.
Your previous statement acknowledges that you haven't answered any of the questions posed at you so far. Questions that actually addresses the issues at hand, instead of the constant bickering you are making. You then turn around to ask me what questions again. Nice logic.

Time would tell if you can rise to the occassion and challenge those questions directed at you. So far, you clearly ain't up to the task at hand.

Eyaaaa!!! Kpele.

Unfortunately for you, what is irrelevant to you may make sense to others. It all depends on your level of comprehension chikena.

ElRazur:
More irrelevant stuff from you.

Please answer the question directed at you.

This is what happens when you think and act like a bully. You think you have any right to dictate to anyone or to address only what catches your fancy?

I can smell the frustration in unsuccessful attempt at trying to confuse people.

I like people that use their brains to think, not just swallowing one propaganda after another.

What was the question again?

ElRazur:
As usual you presented another evasive move. Wiki gives an over view of all the stories, all the actual link is right there in the wiki for all to see. This I mentioned before.

I suppose for the purpose of this debate some one must have edited those information to discredit his credibility right? I won't be dragged into accuracies of wiki here, but it should be noted that it is no longer "editable by anyone" and are subject to checks.

You also appeared to have avoided answering the questions directed at you.  How come the basis of your fact is based on unconfirmed and unverified reports? Surely a statement no longer becomes a fact at this stage

I like the content in bold.

If I have to answer all the questions you put down I may not finish until the next presidential election especially when you have very dangerous mindsets that I am not in the least interesting in relating with.

Your defense of wikipedia as a source of your facts is really troubling. Goes to show you don't understand the whole essence of controlling information.

philip0906:
cos it is outdated.abi did u not hear him say

Nope, unless my speakers are no longer working.

My question was not about how current or outdated the "saying" was but what it meant.

I want to know why someone intending to kill an enemy would need to dig 2 graves.

When did the name Jamaica come into being to begin with that a "saying" will become so outdated that it cannot have any meaning?

Tudór:
^^^ If the above makes sense to you, then you're seriously warped!

Guy, it is obvious you are lost and do not have a mind of your own. I guess the US thinks for you so why bother engaging your brain cells when you sleep and eat propaganda?

ElRazur:
PS
Here are my points before we lose it again.

Here is the link used by your author to present his "facts"
http://www.daily.pk/world/middle-east/10469-cia-has-distributed-400-million-dollars-inside-iran-to-evoke-a-revolution-.html

The news print shows that it wasnt confirmed or proved. So on that basis alone, your presentation of the article as fact is inaccurate.

Here is a link I raised my point from questioning the credibility of the General.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirza_Aslam_Beg#Controversies

There are further links in that link that shows where the stories where taken from. If a controversial man who haven't provided any facts or proof to back up his claim form the part basis of your "facts", then it at least shows how you are approaching this debate at hand. . . . Very emotionally charged just like the author.

Wonderful. Wikipedia is the proof? So, all the noise you have been making boils down to a public encyclopedia that is editable by the general public?

You need help.

ElRazur:
This is not about me. This is about the sources that form part of the basis of you so called facts. Let us focus on that shall we?

1. He's given solidarity with Osama being laden.

Let's have proof. In any case assuming that is true is giving solidarity to Osama a crime?

ElRazur:
2. He's taken sides where and when he is not supposed to.

This is the most open ended and pointless statement I have read on this forum this year.

ElRazur:
3. He plays politics as an Army officer - Something that goes against what they army represents.

Part of the hypocrisy that the topic was based on. The US supported and partnered with his boss (the former Pakistani military president) that overthrew a democratically elected government so what's your point?

ElRazur:
4. He's been involved with scandals that have to deal with misuse of public money.

Proof please. I have not asked for links to online journals, just proof or evidence.

ElRazur:
5. He was in support of selling nuclear arm to Iran. Soley to undermine the US. This he made a statement about when he as the chief of army staff. [Clearly this shows he's got issue with the US]

Let's have the proof. Again, what is wrong in supporting that? A lot of people who believe in fair play and justice support same. That you have probably sold your soul to the US is your own problem not mine or that of the general.

ElRazur:
6. He was mentioned in the death of a prominent scientist.

Being mentioned does not prove anything. Bush claimed Saddam had WMDs before he invaded Iraq. Any proof?

ElRazur:
I don't know about you, but his statement of "CIA spent 400 million dollars to destabilize Iran" seem to check well with his profile and previous history. You do not base your "facts" on someone who appears to have a history of making controversial statement, and even to make matters worse he [the general] never provided and proof to back his claim up. Journalism is about fact, what ever this article is. . . It is far from facts.

The general did not provide any proof to back up his claim just as you have not provided any proof to back up yours. Sounds familiar?

ElRazur:
And this is you claiming I am an empty barrel? Interesting.

You topic had a title highlighting Hypocrisy, You post content tried to draw a picture of hypocrisy etc. I gave you an example to illustrate my point of how politics and hypocrisy goes hand in hand, and that it happens even between nations that are staunch supporters of each other. And that, hypocrisy is nothing new in between nations of the world regardless of ideology etc. How this is not relevant to the topic at hand is beyond me.

Leave the diversions out of this. Are you saying you agree with the writer that the US is being hypocritical? Yes or no? I don tire to read all these irrelevant issues you bring up just to confuse people.

Litmus:
Jamaicans used to say, and I have since discovered on this very board that it might be Ibo in origin, if you intend to kill you enemy make sure you dig two greaves.[/b]

Why 2 graves? Never heard of this before.

ElRazur:
Finally, the general that made the comment is a well known controversial figure in many ways. Read the link I posted about him. This to many reading put his position of credibility [if he ever had one] into question.

Thanks but I will not read any link you posted. You have zero credibility so talking about the credibility of the general is ridiculous.

ElRazur:
Let me level with you here. Hypocrisy and Politics go hand in hand, it is not a new thing am afraid. Here is one classic example. US have been the biggest ally of Israel both politically and militarily. I mean, we all know how the US-Israel relations are. Recently, Israel sold military UAVs [Unmanned aerial vehicles] to China even though US objected to this and threatened to pull all the plugs of support militarily. As this sort of sale put the US forces at potential risk etc. Despite the US given reassurance, it was later discovered that the UAV was sold to china. On top of that, it is widely reported that Israel have given technical-know-how to aid china in developing one of their fighter jets.

China ke? What was the topic again? I thought you wanted us to stay on the topic even when you are ready to bring in China and even Venezuela. Na wah for Nigerians.

JustGood:
I am still interested to find out if there are proofs of massive irregularities to warrant these well co-ordinated protests.

If all losers in elections were able to muster enough media support to motivate their followers into protesting, and that taken as proof of irregularities, there will never be said to be fair electiosn anywhere in the world.

GBAM!

ElRazur:
All of a sudden, I became a waste of time and thought process after I showed your "Facts" to be far from "Facts"? Coincidence? I would let those reading to make their own mind up.

The content in bold refers, this is the only reasonable thing you have put down on this forum.

So, let those reading make up their minds and stop wasting space on this forum.

It seems a lot of people have kicked you out of their discussions of late that you are dwelling on this one as if your life depended on it.

Tudór:
Tell that to the network. . .

Typical Nigerian, always looking for someone to blame instead of accepting own mistakes.

Network ke? My dear learn to have patience and more importantly learn to do things right.

Why is it that every single post on this forum is not sent at least 3 times before it goes through?

Network today, tomorrow e fit be keyboard or even Iran.

Tudór:
Your hypocritical stance is shameful. Who doesn't know iran supports hezbollah and hamas. Stop embarrasing yourself!

I don't know and those that support Hezbollah and Hamas do not agree with you too.

Thank God you finally stated them. Obviously you had no idea why I asked you to name name, it is perfectly understandable.

Now, what makes Hezbollah and Hamas terrorist organizations?

Answers like "US said so" or "EU said so" won't suffice so think hard on this one before you commit another blunder.

Tudór:
I wonder if you lack the ability to read, i specifically stated since you claim my intelligence is abysmally low, i suggest you use your relatively high intelligence to think!

unfortunately, you are blinded to any form of reasoning. I read your comment and made an attempt to show you in primary school level how you cannot use the word West to describe nations that do not agree with the majority of the countries that make up what we loosely call West because we are talking about sovereign nations here not your village meeting.

If you send you post just once will anybody slap you?

ElRazur:
Personally, I think my view of you Afam is that you would present anything as fact [without even checking] to back up your position. And when challenged other wise, you result to adhomen tactics etc.

Your view means absolutely nothing. In fact the only reason we are exchanging posts on a forum is because it is a forum. Outside this forum you don't stand a chance because you are an empty barrel.

I won't as much as have any view of you because that would amount to a complete waste of time and thought process as you do not deserve any.

I see that you have reduced your insults on people you disagreed with, what happened? I remember warning you that insulting people that disagree with you will only lead to your destruction on this forum, I am happy you have realized this sooner rather than later.

ElRazur:
More diversion, only in this case coupled with an evasion mechanism.

You do not have to provide me with "something I agree with" all I am asking is for you to prove that what you took from a likely chain email and presenting on the forum as "facts" are actually facts!

You want facts that the US

supported a military takeover of a democratically elected government in Pakistan?

Fast forward to 1953 in Iran. The US sent in the CIA to
overthrow the democratically elected Mussadiq and the Shah
was reinstalled. The Shah was of course a monarch and
dictator of the highest order. Here, the principle of
democracy actively overthrown, by our government.

refused to acknowledge the landslide HAMAS recorded in Palestine?

supports Mubarak of Egypt in spite of his anti- democratic actions and policies?

supports the leadership in Saudi Arabia even though it is not a democracy?

We should at least learn to give ourselves a break in life lest we make complete nonsense of ourselves all in a bid to argue on a forum.

Address the issues raised by the author if you have any reasonable thing to put down.

The writer has put down common knowledge stuff just to prevent people from being carried away with the hypocrisy of the US.

Tudór:
Is that an excuse? Is that your way of skillfuly side-stepping by accusing me of being an american puppet? - you're a big joke!
It's folks like you that blame every mishap in their lives on America.

Iran is a ''convicted felon'' in that they have been shown to support terrorist groups in iraq, gaza and lebanon with both weapons and finance, the free world wouldn't just sit back and let them add A-bombs to the mix.

I did not mean to insult you but your level of reasoning is abysmally low.

I asked you to list the terrorist organisations Iran is supporting and you have failed to do so, rather you expect me to waste my time on the type of nonsense you hear from war mongers in the US and their supporters in Europe.

Tudór:
Since you shamelessly display your ignorance, these two groups cover almost all countries traditionally regarded as the west NATO and the EU. And both organizations have voiced concerns over irans nuclear programme. Even the EU has sanctions in place against iran.

I'm sure you know all these but choose to let your hatred for america do the thinking for you. What a shame.

The problem with you is an intelligence limited one.

Not every country in Europe belongs to the EU.

Do you really know the meaning of NATO for you to have included that in the mix?

I do not have hatred for America because America did not do anything to me for me to hate them. I hate the hypocrisy and double standards coming out of that country.

ElRazur:
How hard is it to actually debate without resulting to Patronizing or looking through your nose. All I have asked is to show your points are true like you claimed. How hard is that?

You accused people of distraction, yet here you are bring in diversion yourself - making false accusation at me. I have never claimed they are developing nuclear weapon or the election was rigged. Please provide the proofs.

It is in your eyes only, and only your eyes that you think so, but let us not digress. Provide evidence to support your facts is all am asking. I won't even asked if your original post was presented as "the view of the author" and "you are supporting it". However, to claim they are facts, surely it won't be hard to prove these?

PS
1+1 = 2 is a fact. This is recognised and can be proved. This is a debate and as such, expect things to be challenged.

Ok, wait for me to provide the facts that you will agree with. Just hang in there, ok?

Tudór:
The ''west'' is an acceptable generalization here because they are ALL worried and have voiced out their concerns at one time or the other.

You are sure of the part in bold? They are all worried? Did you sample the opinion of all the countries in the West? When did all of them voice out their concerns?

How about putting you to task on this so that we understand if you have any respect for facts.

Tudór:
Even in the U.S its your constitutional right to bear arms but convicted felons are not allowed that priviledge even though its their right coz they are high risk individuals. In similar vein iran is a terrorist nation, supporting and funding several terrorist groups. No one in their right minds would allow terrorists develop nuclear weapons. Just imagine if the 9/11 attacks were nuclear bombs,new york and half the middle east would be glowing in the dark by now. . .

So Iran is like a convicted felon just because the people of Iran chased away the stooge that was brought in from the US to lead that nation before the Islamic revolution?

With the type of thinking you have I guess it would amount to a complete waste of time debating this because it is obvious you don't have a mind of your own, rather you seem to be putting down what some americans typed for you to read and agree to completely.

Enjoy the week and good luck in your blind support.

The same joke that goes around trying to challenge positions has finally decided to abandon his stock in trade because he cannot fault the statements and opinions presented by the author.

I guess this man has seen all the evidence that proves that Iran is developing nuclear weapon and that in fact the last election in Iran was rigged.

You see how we make complete fools of ourselves on public discussion boards.

Tudór:
Whats your point?
You just let your prejudices becloud your reason. The west has a right to be suspicious and worried.
You see a terrorist acquiring massive amounts of fertilizer and other materials, would you assume he's going into agriculture or building a fertilizer bomb?

The West? I thought you just questioned the use of the West as against specific countries in the other thread and here you are using it. We are bloody hypocrites and sycophants.

Meanwhile, the "West" having a right to be suspicious and worried cannot deny a sovereign nation the right to complain or the right to deny any lies or even the right to develop nuclear weapons (even though Iran has stated that its nuclear technology is for peaceful purposes).

As a matter of fact I believe that if any country can develop, keep and use nuclear weapons on its enemies in this world then any country that wants to acquire one should go ahead and do so.

Why should the US and Israel have nuclear weapons and yet they tell other countries not to acquire them?

NPT is not being respected by the signatories as the US continues to invest money and they continue to build them while telling others not to even when they have no single proof that they are building one.

It is this type of hypocrisy that will continue to fuel problems across the globe.

Tudór:
So what are the myths and lies? Why the ''WEST''.
Did germany install the shah? Was it france who ''allegedly'' distributed $400 millon?
Sure the u.s might not be perfect but she and other nations have spoken what they saw. And from all indications the iranian elections were far from ''free and fair''.

Hmm, that's a good point. Please, feel free to use US, UK and all the countries in the West that preach about democracy but do not really like it when the outcome don't favor their stooges or preferred candidates.