₦airaland Forum

eph12:
Depends on what you term morality and immortality. Even in the USA immorality is high.

Thepasserby:
1 Corinthians 1:18 New King James Version (NKJV)

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those
who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the
power of God.

WHERE DO ATHEISTS GET THEIR MORALITY?

Dr Darrel Ray

First, let’s take a hard look at “God’s teachings.” Most Christians are quite unaware of their gods’ teachings. They simply take what the preacher says on Sunday morning as the truth and word of their god. If these teachings were simple and clear, then there would not be 38,000 different denominations and branches of Christianity all saying different things.

For example, I am riding on a train as I write this. I am sitting within a few feet of several Amish families. They are dressed like they walked out of an 1880’s movie. They are pacifistic and hardworking people who deeply believe that their god has instructed them that modern conveniences are the temptations of Satan. Owning a computer is a sin for them. Owning a car, shaving their beards, or having electricity in their home is a sin. Dating anyone outside of the community is a sin. Chances are, even if you were the best Christian you could be, you would still be a very immoral person according to their god.

A close reading of the Old Testament is filled with horrendous lessons on how to treat people. A god that kills almost everyone on Earth in a flood: that’s pretty crazy. A god that commands Joshua to murder all the women and children except for the young girls, who can be taken as sex slaves: That’s horrible. A god that condemns anyone who eats shellfish: what is that all about? And of course.

The 10 commandments tell you that working on Saturday or saying god’s name without a good reason makes you a bad person in the eyes of god. God eventually goes into great detail about how to deal with cattle thieves, isolating women on their period, and which fabrics to wear at the same time; but nowhere in those ten commandments, or in the six hundred and three that come after it, does it say “Don’t abuse children,” or “Don’t enslave people,” or “Don’t rape.”

There’s a simple explanation for this, which is that the Bible was written by human beings at a time when stealing a person’s livestock was a crime punishable by death, but raping a young girl was easily remedied by following it up with a marriage proposal. If the girl married someone other than her rapist however, and was found to not be a virgin, she would be executed. There is nothing remotely moral about any of this.

The Abrahamic tribes who wrote the Old Testament simply came up with a set of laws that favored those already in power, and then claimed those laws were dictated by god and that questioning them was punishable by death.

In the New Testament, you can pick and choose to find verses that sound nice, but who gets to decide which verses teach the moral lessons? When Paul says that a master should treat his slave well, why didn’t he just condemn slavery? Surely the “golden rule” would require that.

When Paul says, “A woman should be quiet in church and not speak. She should learn from her husband.” is that a good moral model? When Jesus says, “If you don’t love me more than your own family, you don’t deserve heaven.” Is that the kind of god you want?

Morality is present in all societies in some form. There were moral people and moral codes long before the Hebrews came along and much earlier than Jesus. If morality comes from the teachings of god, who taught the ancient Chinese their morals? Who taught the Iroquois Indians, before Columbus?

Muslims claim that their morality comes directly from god as written in the Koran. Mormons teach that their morality comes from god as written in the book of Mormon. The Hopi have a well-developed moral and ethical code, but it is not what you or I would recognize. While all of these groups claim that some god gave them their morality, the fact is that no society can live long without rules for successful interaction. No gods gave them these moral rules; tradition and the need to live peacefully within a larger group, brought these about.

You live in a society that has well developed rules and laws that came from centuries of secular law and government. You would be hard pressed to find much in our current laws that was directly related to The Decalogue or the 613 commandments found in the Old Testament. Those were laws and rules as foreign to us today as the Hopi moral code is to the U.S. legal code. They are hardly related.

Little if any of your day-to-day behavior is governed by anything you can find in a holy book. Be kind to each other, is a pretty universal value. Most cultures have some version of that. It existed long before holy books were written. It did not come from any god.

If we received our morality from god or religion, then we would expect to see higher morality among the most religious and godly societies. A simple look at today’s societies shows that is not the case. For example, the US is the most religious western nation, yet we have the highest murder rate, highest rate of imprisonment, highest rape rates along with among the highest poverty rates, teen pregnancies and much more.

Compare our religious society to France, Germany, Sweden, Japan or any number of other developed countries, and you see that high rates of atheism or non-religiosity are associated with low rates of all these “moral” problems.

Western morality began with the enlightenment about 500 years ago. The enlightenment was the first time that Europeans started separating religion from morality. Through the last few centuries, Western Civilization has developed a code of morality that is not dependent on any religion, from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, to the United Nations Charter, to the International Court of Justice, The Geneva Convention on War, and much more. These institutions and laws make no reference to gods or religion and are often agreed to by countries whose citizens have radically different religions.

Here is something to consider. No major religion on earth condemned slavery until the enlightenment came along to condemn it. All the major religions claim that women are inferior to men. None thought that women had a role to play in political life and rarely in religious life. Most churches still believe that only men may lead. Many major religions espoused “Peace on Earth” but were quick to start huge devastating Crusades against one another. Christians who espoused Christian morality in the 1500’s spent decades killing one another across Europe in the 30 years war. Millions died in the name of a god. Not much morality there.

Where do we get our morality? From the constant development of our culture. From the evolution of laws and guidelines that help us create a peaceful and prosperous society. We are who create our morality and we pass it down to our children and grandchildren. That is why Muslim people can live prosperously in the US along side Baptists, Mormons, Hindus and Atheists. We have a morality that supersedes all religions and is beholden to none.

peczy1st:
For latest christian movies. click here: http://tolanimedia.xyz/search.php?q=2016+christian+movies

PDBonline:
You don't want anyone to talk about your father like that.

Anyways, did you expect to SEE GOD APPEARING PHYSICALLY? He may, if that's what you needed. He has done that to many already and they will be witnesses against you if you say because you didn't see God He doesn't exist. But most people don't need to see Him physically. How were you a Christian in the first place if you didn't already know in your heart that God existed. Why do you need another evidence? To soothe you physical sense? Those who walk with the living God MUST do so by faith. That's how God designed His system to be and He will not change because of me or you.

damogul:
My brother leave that akin fella. The guy has overdosed on ignorance and bandies it around as knowledge with so much impudence. These days na just look and pass i dey do with am.

He wishes to bring you down to his level then beat you there. Only Pigs thrive in the mud bro.

KingEbukasBlog:
Wow . How can someone be pontificating in ignorance . Special-needs child ?
Peruse this and stop embarrassing yourself
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism

KingEbukasBlog:
You are grossly ignorant , very pathetic . Countries that practice state atheism are referred to as atheist nations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism

honourhim:
Christians get trashed only in your small mind. Keep deceiving yourself.

I know that the scope of your madness covers religion but i am only narrowing it to christianity. I dont have time to waste.

KingEbukasBlog:
Your responses make no sense

If there is a correlation between atheism and prosperity then Cuba , China and North Korea should have been the most prosperous in the world and atheists should own a colossal amount of wealth in the world .

But facts prove that his assertions are false . Christian-dominant countries according researches are the richest in the world , Christians own 55 percent of the global wealth , and the most millionaires and billionaires in world are Christians .

Meanwhile atheist countries example North Korea has about half of the country's population of 24 million lives in "extreme poverty," according to the KUNI report . That is out of 24 million North Koreans half of them - 12 million - live in abject poverty .

And in Cuba , in just urban areas, there's an estimated 15% living in extreme poverty.

It is just recently that China started experiencing prosperity as its poverty rate fell from 88 percent to 6.5 percent since Christians surged in the country . But its a cum hoc fallacy to claim that's China's increase in prosperity was expedited or caused by the proliferation of Christians even though it is apparent .

Please learn to be incisive like me , its embarrassing that your periphrastic posts make no modicum of sense in any way or form .

honourhim:
Christianity just happened to suffer collateral damage only in your brain.
The height of stupidity and madness that you display here against christianity is what you call common sense. Quite a shame.

KingEbukasBlog:
Hilarious

www.cnbc.com/2015/01/14/the-religion-of-millionaires-.html

honourhim:
I know you will always display your stupidity as you have always done in difence of your madness against christianity . Continue.

folaski:
Sometimes we have dreams and we know their meanings but we don't know how to either claim the revealed blessings or to ward off the revealed evil. Are you in that situation? Post your concerns here and lets guide you in specific biblical prayers as the dreams are also interpreted.

God bless you.

PDBonline:
Paradigm shift. From "there is no God" to "there is God" or, at least "God may exist and I don't just know it yet."

So the question is, "How can someone who honestly believes there is no God start to believe there is God?"
Simple, just assume for a moment that God may exist and accept that you ought to know God if He exists. If He exists, He should be able to hear you. So just honestly say, "God, I don't believe You exist but if You do reveal Yourself to me in a way I can't dispute."

When you are done, you can laugh about it and forget about it. At least if God is real, He should know what to do. And if He is not real, saying that shouldn't hurt.

honourhim:
Look at the dishonest equation you gave here which does not represent what he said. Quite a shame.

KingEbukasBlog:
Look at what atheists do to Christian in North Korea : http://northkoreanchristians.com
http://www.opendoorsuk.org/persecution/worldwatch/north_korea.php

Look at what they do Christians in China : http://www.christiantimes.com/article/20000-chinese-christians-persecuted-by-chinese-government-report/55832.htm

Atheistic communist governments have caused the death of over 200 million people in the world - they are culpable for mass suicide , mass murder , abuse of human rights etc .

Secularism has nothing to do with atheism . America is a secular country and there 3 percent of its population are atheists . France is a secular country and only 16 percent of its population are atheists . There are so many Christians that support state secularism .

Can't you comprehend simple facts and concepts ?

KingEbukasBlog:
Go home you are drunk !

KingEbukasBlog:
89.5 percent of Nobel laureates are religious while 10.5 percent of the Nobel laureates are atheists , agnostic and freethinkers combined . Religious people ab initio mundi have made remarkable discoveries , inventions and prominent achievements while atheists started making prominent achievements from the 17th century .

https://www.nairaland.com/3299993/what-prominent-achievements-made-atheists


Plus you are on a thread exposing the wickedness of atheists for the past 100 years

So what exactly are you saying ?

KingEbukasBlog:
Please read and disabuse yourself of mistaken beliefs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism

This was done to Christians in Soviet Union

.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union

KingEbukasBlog:
I love how you attempt a pathetic comeback any time you are pummeled . I have proven to you that there is no such thing as good without God.

KingEbukasBlog:
I love how you attempt a pathetic comeback any time you are pummeled . I have proven to you that there is no such thing as good without God.

KingEbukasBlog:
In any atheist state , human rights are abused because freedom of religion and religious practices are forbidden by the law .