₦airaland Forum

richidinho:
Funny you, in my church deliverance is free yet demons manifest and are casted out daily

damogul:
Let me offer you free advice.

Go get help! You are too bitter to be rational! You spit vitriol at will and think that is a normal conversation and you call yourself normal? You are putting a big dent on your own thread and if you were wise you would tone down your vile to the point of sounding human.

damogul:
You started off well then digressed into things that had nothing to do with Prayer just to add some beef to your content so i helped you to highlight the irrelevant portions of your comment.

Now lets deal with the crux of the matter.


Prayer as known by a man who isnt spiritual is seen as discussing with an "imaginary friend"

Prayer as known by a spiritual man is seen as embracing the will and power of a divine friend, brother, father, God

Now God himself gave parameters for prayer application in order to enable him come into the picture and 2 of the key conditions are FAITH and DESIRE.

Faith in God translates to trust in God and Trust in God translates to believing God is who He is and is the rewarder of them that diligently seek Him thus declaring that He is greater than you and can do what your human ability cannot do especially when all else fails.

That is the pillar of Prayer for Christianity.

I did say that prayer is an experience and in this experience is growth. Nobody born today can begin running..He must first belly flop then learn to crawl etc. So it is with prayer.

Prayer begins small and as one grows in God and Faith so do the results. So look at it this way;

Not all that pray have grown and when you wish to carry a prayer project bigger than you, you would flop because you are yet to get to that point but for others they have crossed that point so can easily get answers to prayer in a day that would take you weeks.

Prayer works in 2 ways....draws us closer to God and also grooms us spiritually so we can learn through practise how to become better and stronger in God hence hearing Him better and understanding Him too.

Truthfully and Personally i have seen Prayer do what medicine couldnt and what men failed to do and i have seen this enough times as a religious practice to form a "scientific" opinion that its not;

1) Coincidence

2) Luck of the draw

3) Placebo effect

My experiences which are indeed mine cannot be disproved by you until you present me with your own personal experiences under the same conditions i found myself and applied Prayer....Now this is what science is all about isnt it? Being able to replicate an experiment under the same conditions in order to get the same results hence making the experiment and its findings credible. Have you done this yet?

If you have not then this discussion has no basis as its yet theory to you but Practical experience to me so in this case I AM THE SCIENTIST while YOU ARE NOT.

The spirit Realm is a realm i am a part of as a Child of God and no definition or earth can cover it so i will pass on that as its an experience and not a theory as i have already said.

When i decree a thing to another and it comes to pass repeatedly and is seen and documented then it becomes scientific..e.g

1) As a young boy growing in Christ i have angrily decreed job loss to a security guard who harassed my brother for nothing and i gave him a 2 week deadline. He was sacked for no tangible reason almost 2 weeks later.

2) It was revealed to me by God that my first kid would be a boy and when he would come which would be 5 yrs into my marriage. I told my wife but she was anxious for us to have a kid early. She tried everything to fast forward the process. Nothing worked until the 5yr deadline was up. 5 days from her missing her period i was told by the holy spirit while in bed early in the morning that she was pregnant and i woke her up and congratulated her and told her our son is here. 9 months later our son was born

3) It was revealed to me by God that i would be taken to a place by a woman who would introduce me to some land owners who would want me to assist them and when i got there i would know. 2 yrs after a lady offered me a land sponsorship deal in ikorodu and when i went all the things i saw in the dream i saw them on ground and i sponsored the land survey and got loads of acres in return which would be a church city in the future.

4) I have seen too many demon possessed people delivered..even at my own hands. They were not manipulated or coerced and after they were freed their lives regained normalcy.

The list is endless. This is just to buttress what personal experience is and it is not kalo kalo or placebo. Science cannot transcend the spiritual to explain it but the spiritual can identify with science as proof of its existence which is what the articles i posted clearly indicated.

If you wish to be reasonable with this argument then first of all try not to speak from hearsay. Experience is the best teacher. Come onboard and see this your yourself under the right conditions and then if it fails you then have a good ground to speak knowledgeably on the said subject matter.

damogul:
I will keep this short and sweet alright? When I speak i speak from the perspective of one who Believes in God and the efficacy of Prayer.

Now even as a believer in the power of prayer i can relate to science when it tries to put into words the benefits prayer has to offer but since they are not viewing it from my angle spiritually they can only offer physical pointers which are truly the best of their ablity.

Note that these are recent discoveries yet Prayer has been carried out by humanity long before science intelligently began and even in that crude era the benefits were tangible and today science confirms that. So who scientifically recommended prayer back then for it to be beneficial when intelligent science did not exist?

If you read the articles you would see where it clearly stated that prayer has been part of humanity right from the beginning so how come this is so and yet it was not detrimental but beneficial even when there was no research covering it?

I did point at Prayer being a Faith thing which hinges on experiences and not theories. These experiences are personal and verifiable so words from people who lack these personal experiences cannot be used to replace the experiences people have had.

Since Prayer is a physical practice based on spiritual foundations how then can you measure it accurately without also applying spiritual parameters?

WITCHCRAFT ACCUSATIONS AGAINST CHILDREN IN AFRICA

Witchcraft allegations against children in Africa have received increasing international attention in the first decade of the 21st century.[1] [2][3]

The phenomenon of witch-hunts in Sub-Saharan Africa is ancient, but the problem is reportedly "on the rise", due to "urbanization, poverty, conflict and fragmenting communities".[4]

Practice

Recent reports by UNICEF, UNHCR, Save The Children and Human Rights Watch[5][6][7][8] have also highlighted the violence and abuse towards children accused of witchcraft in Africa. Accusations of witchcraft in Africa are a very serious matter as the witch is culturally understood to be the epitome of evil and the cause of all misfortune, disease and death. Consequently, the witch is the most hated person in African society and subjected to punishment, torture and even death.[9][10]

The victims of witchcraft accusations in African society have usually been the elderly, the disabled, albinos and anyone who was considered different.[11][12][13] In recent years due to the impact of rapid urbanisation, economic decline, as well as the HIV/AIDS pandemic, children have become more and more the victims of witchcraft accusations, especially orphans. Child victims of witchcraft accusations are more vulnerable than adult victims as they cannot defend themselves as they are confronted with physical and psychological abuse from their family and community.[14]

Children accused of witchcraft may be subjected to violent exorcism rituals by African Pentecostal-Charismatic pastors who mix Christianity with African witchcraft beliefs. Such exorcism may include incarceration, starvation and being made to drink hazardous substances.[14] In other cases accused children are expelled and end up living on the streets, are trafficked and in some instances they are killed.[4]

Angola

In Angola, many orphaned children are accused of witchcraft and demonic possession by relatives in order to justify not providing for them. Various methods are employed: starvation, beating, unknown substances rubbed into their eyes or being chained or tied up.[15]

West Africa

In the Gambia, about 1,000 people accused of being witches were locked in detention centers in March 2009. They were forced to drink a dangerous hallucinogenic potion, according to Amnesty International.[16]

In Nigeria, some Pentecostal pastors have incorporated African witchcraft beliefs into their brand of Christianity resulting in a campaign of violence against young Nigerians. Children and babies branded as evil are being abused, abandoned and even murdered. The preachers make money out of the fear providing costly exorcism services of their parents and their communities.[17]

In the Nigerian states of Akwa Ibom and Cross River about 15,000 children were branded as witches and most of them end up abandoned and abused on the streets.[16] A documentary aired on Channel 4 and BBC, Saving Africa's Witch Children, shows the work of Gary Foxcroft and Stepping Stones Nigeria in addressing these abuses.

In Sierra Leone, sick infants tend to have better survival-rates due to witchhunts: "the effect of the witch cleansing probably lasts for years in the sense that mothers are predisposed to tend their babies with more hopefulness and real concern. Therefore many babies who, before the arrival of the witchfinder, might have been saved if the mothers had had the heart and will to stop at nothing to tend their babies, will now survive precisely because they will receive the best attention, as the mothers now believe that the remaining children are free of witchcraft. So there is a reduction in the infant mortality rate in the years immediately following the witchcleansing movement".[18]

Congo

In Congo, it is estimated that there are 25,000 homeless children living on the streets of the capital city. Of these, 60% were expelled from their homes because of allegations of witchcraft. Accusations of witchcraft is the only justifiable reason for the refusal to house a family member, no matter how distant the relation.[19]

Ethiopia

In Ethiopia, Mingi is the traditional belief among the Omotic-speaking Karoand Hamar tribes in southern Ethiopia that adults and children with physical abnormalities are ritually impure.[20][21] The latter are believed to exert an evil influence upon others, so disabled infants have traditionally been disposed of without a proper burial.[20] Children are killed by forced permanent separation from the tribe by being left alone in the jungle or by drowning in the river.[22][23][24]

Reasons for being declared impure include birth out of wedlock, the birth of twins, the eruption of teeth in the upper jaw before the lower jaw, and chipping a tooth in childhood.[25][26]

Possible solutions

Interventions until now have been limited and localised such as the safe houses run by Stepping Stones Nigeria and their partners in Akwa Ibom state in Nigeria, by Bishop Emilio Sumbelelo of St. Joseph’s Catholic Church in Angola, and by Africa Outreach in Malawi.[27][28][29][30] Nevertheless, global awareness of the problem of child witchcraft accusations in Africa is growing as evidenced by the above-mentioned UNICEF and UNHCR reports. It is likely that increased global awareness of the problem of child witchcraft accusations in Africa will eventually lead to more initiatives to assist its victims. Nevertheless, it is equally important to address the underlying socio-economic, political and environmental factors that contribute to this problem.[31]

In the meantime the general population in countries where child witchcraft beliefs are prevalent need to be made aware that the torture and killing of children is unacceptable. This can be done by means of grass-roots awareness and prevention campaigns, conferences and theological education with the support of religious leaders, who need to be engaged and become part of the solution and not part of the problem. The judiciary, human rights organizations, civil society, and local and national governments can also aid this.[32]

Spread to the UK

Research by Dr Leo Ruickbie has shown that the problem of child witchcraft accusations is spreading from Africa to areas with African immigrant populations. In some cases this has led to ritualised abuse and even murder, particularly in the UK with such high-profile cases as that of Kristy Bamu in 2010.[33]

LiberaDeus:
Bros no need for too much argument.

I don't like threads derailing into arguments and fights, it makes the topic to be shrouded with smoke.

Back to the point, I read the links you posted . The links show a benefit of prayer that has been detailed by most psychologists.

I want you to consider something, if I give you a key to open a door and you try it over and over again and the lock doesn't open, will it be smart for you to claim that the key was beneficial since using it made you feel better and it even helped to train your arm muscles? That won't be smart at all, if the key doesn't work it doesn't work period, every other benefit of trying the key can be gained by other activities.

Lets look at the key of prayer. People pray for so many things including;

1. Good health and cure for diseases
2. Exam success and brilliance
3. Material wealth and prosperity
4. Divine protection from known ills that plague humans like natural disasters, crime, theft, kidnap , terrorism etc
5. Long life
6. Spiritual prosperity and growth of religious adherents

Looking at what was mentioned above, from the links you posted, the only benefit derived from prayer is a mild psychological benefit.

This benefit doesn't eliminate the desire for good health and long life . The benefit just means that people that pray have been shown in average to enjoy the ride a bit more thereby making themselves a bit healthier.
This is what we mean by the placebo effect.
If prayer is like the key I mentioned above then it doesn't open any of the 6 doors but just slightly turns the first door.

Does that sound like a key that works?

So posting those links is like saying a key that was meant to open a lock didn't open it but you felt better while using it and you trained your muscles.

Am yet to see the power and efficacy of prayer.

LiberaDeus:
Bros no need for too much argument.

I don't like threads derailing into arguments and fights, it makes the topic to be shrouded with smoke.

Back to the point, I read the links you posted . The links show a benefit of prayer that has been detailed by most psychologists.

I want you to consider something, if I give you a key to open a door and you try it over and over again and the lock doesn't open, will it be smart for you to claim that the key was beneficial since using it made you feel better and it even helped to train your arm muscles? That won't be smart at all, if the key doesn't work it doesn't work period, every other benefit of trying the key can be gained by other activities.

Lets look at the key of prayer. People pray for so many things including;

1. Good health and cure for diseases
2. Exam success and brilliance
3. Material wealth and prosperity
4. Divine protection from known ills that plague humans like natural disasters, crime, theft, kidnap , terrorism etc
5. Long life
6. Spiritual prosperity and growth of religious adherents

Looking at what was mentioned above, from the links you posted, the only benefit derived from prayer is a mild psychological benefit.

This benefit doesn't eliminate the desire for good health and long life . The benefit just means that people that pray have been shown in average to enjoy the ride a bit more thereby making themselves a bit healthier.
This is what we mean by the placebo effect.
If prayer is like the key I mentioned above then it doesn't open any of the 6 doors but just slightly turns the first door.

Does that sound like a key that works?

So posting those links is like saying a key that was meant to open a lock didn't open it but you felt better while using it and you trained your muscles.

Am yet to see the power and efficacy of prayer.

damogul:
*facepalm* Mr Intelligent also missed the memo. Wow..well so much for intelligence.

Earthkumy:
THE ANCESTRAL CURSES (part 2)

In the chapter one of this massage, I stated that there’s difference between being condemned to spiritual death and having a curse that’s affecting you and your family despite you been born again Christians. When you are born again heaven is sure for you, if you keep company with the Holy Spirit all the days of your Christian life, forget all the worries about eternal life, I boast in the Lord that you are surely going to heaven. The truth is, without the Holy Spirit you will never make head way and you will not make heaven or paradise whichever one you prefer to call it. The Holy Spirit will renew our mortal body into immortal body enabling us to rapture. I pray you get to know the Holy Spirit more, is the Holy Spirit that bears witness with our Spirit that we are a Children of God. The Holy Spirit makes it easy for us to make a daily Christian life easy in the face of difficulties.
Back to ancestral curse, I was praying for one of my friend in my house and the Lord told me that his problem is from his background, I followed the Lord instruction and the yoke was broken. I have seen men of God who love the Lord so much and their background never affected them all through their life, because they are always in right standing with God and when they have Children, if their children do not properly follow the Lord, they will start suffering from the problems of their ancestors line which wasn’t broken in their fathers life (Psalm 89:30). I have also seen another set of Christians who are sincere and yet being affected by their background. I believe if they pray and follow the Holy Spirit instructions, the problem will just be a learning ground for greater height in one’s life just as it was for me. Many will never know what is pulling them down until they start speeding hours praying, and seeking to get answers.
I know a lot of Christians will rather die in a problem, than believe a power somewhere is cursing it in their life. Well, that’s ok provided that you do not backslide because of the problem, as far as I meet you in heaven, is ok by me. Though I have problems of repetition of the pray by some Churches in Nigeria every Sunday. I believe you should fast and pray for your background if you are new in our family (Christian) especially if you are from Africa where idol worship and demonic spiritual worship is common. The Bible said we will cast out demons please exercise that part of the scripture in every part of your life to make your living in this world easier for you as a child of God. Break the yokes around you Mark 16:17.
There’s another set of Christians that I see, they feel's like they need deliverance on their background every time. The devil keep telling them they are not free yet and they believe the devil more than they believe the word of God, even though they call themselves serious Christians, but in truth they are less than babes. I advise you to pray and believe it is settled and you will get the result, if the devil starts playing in your mind please rebuke him, he will flee.
THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS YOU AND PLEASE BE RAPTURABLE.
Pastor Eze Chukwu Earthkumy

damogul:
When you are caught with your hand in the cookie jar you start using tirades and attempts at calling another uneducated to give you an illusion of intelligence. Below is the expo i gave Plaetton which he missed. Let me post it again here for you and i hope for the sake of your "intelligence" you do not miss it as well.

jonbellion:
Akinton you should really take a chill pill yo
I'm on your side but you can make your points at least less.....errrrr
Vile

damogul:
You guys will not read for sake of knowledge but will only do so for sake of attacking Christianity hence miss out on proper knowledge.

I gave you expo by posting a portion from one of the websites but the obvious on what i posted was missed by you. Let me post the particular spot for you again,

[/b]


Yet you typed all that crap up there just so you can save face. I asked you a simple question. If science endorses prayer is science also wrong?

I have said repeatedly that science supports religion but you guys keep on trying to shoot it down thereby making yourselves look and sound ridiculous. I suggest you read some more and this time pay attention to the details especially since you missed the first expo i gave you.

http://www.newsmax.com/Health/Headline/prayer-health-faith-medicine/2015/03/31/id/635623/

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2014/09/18/new-study-examines-the-effects-of-prayer-on-mental-health/

http://undergroundhealthreporter.com/effects-of-prayer-can-lead-to-healing/

The level of ignorance you guys exhibit here on NL is appalling and all in a bid to shoot down religious practices you fabricate all sorts even when your very beloved science says you are wrong you would never admit to your error.

Well read up the links provided and be honorable enough to accept you are wrong.

damogul:
smh is undeserved by you as even that is a waste of a perfectly good smh.

Have you ever heard about "experiences"?

If you think actual experiences are indoctrination then honestly your literacy should be brought to question.

You think Christianity is about indoctrination? No wonder you are deluded.

Christianity is a life of experiences. We see and then we do, we read and then we do. we hear and then we do. Faith without works is dead.

I thought that was clearly in naijadeyhias very first response to you but even your alleged "super" literate mind couldnt grasp a simple statement and here you are shooting yourself in the foot with a word like indoctrination.

You shame the Atheist community. I can see the bar has been lowered to accomodate every "Akin" TOM, DICK and IlLITERATE.

LaClicKLaBenDin:
First of all, my post wasn't directed to you. Second of all, I don't think I said anything about how holy I am. Thirdly, I gave my reasons why I think what he said isn't appropriate: this site doesn't have age restriction.

And I don't think you can tell me that his statement regarding masturbation isn't encouraging.

When someone steals and they here you say "stealing is normal, what's the message? I guess it is 'keep stealing'.

LaClicKLaBenDin:
Seun, the bolded really got me wondering....

I really don't know how to put it to you, so I don't sound out of line, but I will just let you know that it is one thing to go astray, but entirely a different thing to encourage people to feel comfortable in doing the wrong things.

This site is helping to erode the morals of the young minds here. This is a faceless forum, and as such, even children could be members and read all these stuff we write here.

With all due respect, Seun, you're someone of influence, someone a lot of people here look up to, and I think you're using that influence negatively. What do you think a young mind who is growing up would feel, reading your statement as it concerns masturbation? Would you encourage your kids to indulge in masturbation? Do you know how this can effect their mental and psychological state?

I am of the opinion that you should minimise the way you present some sensitive issues, especially when it has to do with morality.

No disrespect intended.

naijadeyhia:
Do you see how silly you sound? Is alcohol not a substance? Are Opiods not subsances? Is prayer a physical "Subtance"? Is Faith Physical or spiritual but with human agency?

Sometimes i just sit back pick my bottle of Pepsi with my biscuits and just watch you guys make an open show of what irrationality truly is.

Earthkumy:
THE ANCESTRAL CURSES THE WAY OUT
INTRODUCTION

There’s difference between being condemned to spiritual death and having a curse that’s affecting you and your family despite you been born again Christians. We have had cases where a good Christian had suffered a particular sickness, hardships, marital problems, a particular habit or other problems that had being following there family lineage, just as the case may be. And they had tried in many prayers, fasting and the problem remains until an anointed man of God prayed and breaks those cures. The questions to answer in this write up is should that be the case? Is it possible for a Christian to still be under bondage? What’s the solution for Spiritual freedom in Christ Jesus? Read on as the Holy Spirit leads us alone the part of understanding.

Ancestral curse can be defined as an evil or misfortune that follows a particular person as a result of being born into a family lineage; inherited family problems. A curse that follows a person as a result of the mistake of his forefathers: like Adamic curse (Genesis 3:17), Ahab curse (1 kings 21:21-26), etc.

In my little time of being a Pastor, I have had many people who came to me for deliverance, with believe in their hearts that a particular curse is following them even as a prayerful Christian. Many of them got delivered when we pray together and many just need counseling. Before we go on let me make it clear that because you see a particular problem physically doesn’t mean is not settled spiritually. Devil will always feed on children of God ignorance to keep them under bondage, which should not be so. If all of us Christian know our place and understand God’s word, we will always laugh at the devil’s tricks. If you are not born in a Christian home there’s always demon your forefathers was worshipping which will be following you or demanding that you worship them. Some of these powers are quiet when you haven’t being born again; some is as a result demon invoked to follow a particular family as a result of crime of their forefathers. And many are suffering or passing through many difficulties without knowing the reason for the problem they are facing.

When I started to know the Holy Spirit and it activities: that’s my early Christian life rediscovering. I started praying so much at midnights, and I was having attacks both physically and spiritually, sometimes I will see spirits in my room, I will pray and cast them out. A lot of times they came like owls in numbers crying on my window and disturbing my neighbors and I will be awake praying, rebuking and casting them out, they kept coming back. My neighbors in Shogunle know owls come for me and they expect me to start praying ones they comes in their groups. A lot of attacks came to me from the demons my forefather worshiped. During those sleepless nights I never panicked, Victor my friend is the only person I share the details of these mysteries with. The answers I got from all those attacks is that the demons had found out that they had lost me and they were fighting to create fear in me and also to make sure they destroy me or my new found faith. The only thing that got me through is my belief that Jesus had set me free and the demons have no right over me. That gave me boldness to standup against them in the name of my Lord and savior Jesus Christ. Though the fight lasted months I came out with victory and a lot of experiences.

Rom 8:1 says “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit”. The effect of ancestral curses in a Christian’s life is as a result of ignorance of who we are. Hos 4:6 “my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. "Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests; because you have ignored the law of your God, I also will ignore your children”.

To be continued
Pastor Eze Chukwu Earthkumy
Assemblies of God Church

Earthkumy:
when i read some comments is obvious that many do not read before commenting, they will just see topic and rush in and start's commenting out of point, i don't know if it is out of intellectual laziness or over zealouness.

jonbellion:
prayer entails the idea of attempting to make an allegedly omniscient entity aware of something. It also involves messing with an allegedly divine plan, and divine plan or indirectly arguing that the person praying could somehow improve upon God's intent or design.
Lol comedy
Godbotherers never seem to consider that their constant pleading of God might piss him off.
Help me with my body odour even though I have bad hygiene
Help me find my car keys even though I'm careless
Make me better in bed even though I don't practice
Help me with my test even though i didn't read

naijadeyhia:
2 thinks work together. Faith and Genuine desire. God does not work outside this. The bible says

Those that come to God MUST believe that HE is and that he is the rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

My personal track record in this has been superb and does not fit into any statistical law of probability otherwise I should be the luckiest man alive.

I remember the lady who Got prayed for after her husband had been without a job for over a year when he got sacked from his well paying banking job. (She is a nairalander by the way)

We prayed for 1 week and suddenly within that 1 week her fathers property which he has been trying to sell for about 12yrs with nobody showing interest got sold and the buyer said it was either that property or nothing. He sold it for 18million and gave the daughter 4m first and 2m second so she can give her husband to start a business.

within 1 month after this prayer he is now a CEO of an agro related factory producing PKO (palm kernel oil) and earning 300k per day. He still prays but also plans.

Is that also a probability?

naijadeyhia:
Shut your bitter lying mouth you 6am lie pundit.

Where has Prayer hindered development of discoveries? How do you even reason?

Has bitterness so eroded your ability to think?

Missionaries came here to africa to remove the shackles of the dark ages from us so we can become creative and some of the best inventors and doctors and workers out there are africans and religious yet they pray and plan.

what kind of reasoning does this guy have bikonu

naijadeyhia:
I see your own thread is lost on you. When did I sa prayer excludes planning? Are u not the one saying planning is everything and prayer is useless?

naijadeyhia:
Question; If I prayed for someone and declared to that person that in 2weeks a man God has prepared for her would propose and it comes to pass exactly so. Note just date but also the person being a Pastor is that a law of probability?

if I tell someone to carry out a prayer exercise specifically targetting a problem of failure he has been having and declare to him that right after this exercise all doors would open to him and such a person does this and gets invited for a Job interview 2 days after this program him being the only man in the midst of over 30 females who also were invited and were traditionally meant for such jobs...he is the one chosen for the job and with an awesome pay is that also a law of probability?

Do I ask more?

naijadeyhia:
This one does and he is clearly my focus. For others its a ticket to a life of debauchery and freedom to live as they please without restrictions except when hit by laws.

Every organisation plans yet also has funds set apart for emergencies like in banks who still set aside a budget to cover fraud so it is with us as religious people.

We plan and prepare for eventualities but still pray . None negates the other.

Prayer does not stop planning and planning does not stop prayer. my first post shows this.