₦airaland Forum

juman:
I love your thread.
You raise very sensible point.

In 80s I knew many semi literate persons that were successful traders. From their trading they built many houses for themselves.

I think Yoruba women are more into trading and business than men.

But today economy is bad. Couple with extreme bad leadership.

Currently yorubas have very bad leaders.

flokii:
Yorubas own trading.. forget the lies some people peddle on the internet.

The outsiders are the ones spoiling our markets in SW with sub standard and fake goods, reason people now lose trust in traders which in turn affects trading and profitability.

BastardWike:
On the contrary, you're actually the one who is alarmingly insecure, no pun intended!

Can't you see how you guys are making Igbos to appear like superhumans. This character traits you're exhibiting was exactly the same thing your fathers where seen on national TV displaying a show of shame when they were lamenting bitterly and crying to Tinubu to save them from Igbos

Now, it would leave a casual observer wondering what exactly the Igbos did to those men lamenting pathetically on national TV. How can Igbos leave their region, come to your own region, buy or rent shops at inflated prices only for you to be crying for help to remove them forcefully?? Did Igbos displace you guys at gunpoint??

Kai, see as shame leave you come dey catch me on your behalf. Oga Ade

BastardWike:
Aside teaching, ministry, tailoring and taxi driving jobs, what else can guys do? Do you have the brains and patience to run businesses?

You people don't even know how primitive and ignorant you sound when you ask people to return to their states. Even in America where every state controls their resources, you can't even dare to tell people to return to their states, how much more a country where some parts rely on the resources from other regions.

SMH!

unshakablejihad:
STFU! yen yen yen yen yen yen yen...always blaming igbos for ur failures...shame on u

gregyboy:
Can you use historical and archeological fact to prove benin monarch came from ife


Dont get me angry or else i would rubbish yoruba history if you keep talking talking without fact

Do you know what it took me to discover benin had no relationship with ife

And you're coming here to say rubbish when you're not even from ife

Nonsense
Youre talking about obatala and the other rubbish how does that prove ownership to a word, how. Do we know the obatala and co didnt come into being after the word oba entered Yorubaland

Stop talking nonsense tao11 is yet to ascertain benin-ife ties but you're here already claiming it

To crown it all you guys are not even from ife

And stop using oral account, which can be said to suite intensions

samuk:
After the creation of Yoruba by the white man in 1808, a library of the new Yoruba words and bible was also created. They begin to write myths as their history. A mythical medieval Ife was created to accommodate the newly created Yoruba people, Ooni was elevated through Oduduwa myths to become the spiritual head of the Yoruba people. But this didn't last long as the Sultan of Sokoto displaced the Ooni to become the spiritual head of more than half Yoruba people including their Obas who are muslims.

The speed at which the Sultan of Sokoto displaced the Ooni to become the spiritual head of most Yoruba people and their obas buttresses the fact that the creation of Ife and the elevation of Ooni had no solid historical backing, this is why it crumbled within a century compared to Benin where the Oba still remains the spiritual head to all his people despite suffering a crushing defeat by the British over a century ago.

The fact the Oba of Benin still reigns supreme amongst his people, being both the spiritual a d cultural embodiment of the Benin/Edo people is because Benin history is real and wasn't a political creation on paper life Ooni and Ife.

davidmarker:
1) Onojie, Enogie ... are the titles of dukes. Benin Kingdom has only one king like all real kingdoms.
2) it is only make-belief kingdoms like yoruba which have several kings.

3) yoruba was created in 1808

davidmarker:
So you were born thousands of years ago and witnessed the naming of "obatala" ?
Look, I have already proven my claims on this same forum.
you are only being deluded as the usual yoruba is when defending made up stories

davidmarker:
there is no such thing as "general word for king".
The title and the word for king are one and the same.
1)the ife word for king is "ooni"
2) the oyo word for king is "alafin"
...
the french word for king is "roi"
the british word for king is "king" (unless it is a woman then it is "queen" )

It is only you guys the yoruba reality challengers who create a universe with different rules than those of the rest of the world.
Once again, the ooni of ife who first copied the title Oba from Benin is adesoji aderemi. All the other copycat yoruba chiefs emulated him.

davidmarker:
Where do they train you guys to be so deluded ?
Non contempt with trying to rewrite history, you also want to rewrite the present.
Anybody with half a brain can see your trolls make zero sense.

davidmarker:
1) how many ife people have the title ooni ?
Answer 1
2) how many oyo people have the title alafin ?
Answer 1
3) how many ijebu people have the title awujale ?
Answer 1
4) how many british people have the title queen ?
Answer 1

.....

How many Edo people have the title Oba ?
Answer 1.

In a kingdom, there can be only one king.
There will be many dukes, many chiefs, many repetetive titles, but the title of King is for only one person.

Aderemi adesoji copied the Oba title in the 1930's as a replacement for the word "sir".

all this is common sense, but when you have been telling lies for so many years, you start to no longer have common sense, that is what the yoruba trolls are going through.

gregyboy:
I would have really love if Tao11 could prove the ife-benin connections right

That would be are greatest achievement, if she can do that i believe she wont be the only one sticking her head out in a benin yoruba debate all are brothers will accompany her

I was on my own when a Yoruba nigga tagged me, that Tao11 is crushing down benins on culture thread, with some funny exciting talks, for a moment it seems she was winning and when the benins were attacking back comes the banned

TAO11 go back to your usual oblivion and dig up information to prove the benin-ife connection right because the more you fail the more i gain grounds on my assertion

All benins should retreat now, am feeling pity for the yorubas, they never thought it would end like this

TAO11:
So far in the course of this thread, the following retar.ded claims have been devastatingly debunked:

(1) The retar.ded claim (by disgruntled Binis) that Yorubas began using the word “Oba” in the post-1930s.

This has been debunked with written evidence of Yoruba usage from 1899, from 1897, from c.1867, from 1845, et al.

(2) The retar.ded claim (by @samuk) that there exists some “600 years” old written evidence of Benin usage of the word “Oba”.

This retar.ded claim is yet to be substantiated (even with an atom of evidence) despite more than 10 days (and still counting) of their torturous search.

Instead, these disgruntled Binis were at best only able to demonstrate (from their own warped logic) that the Yorubas have an earlier written evidence — 1845 (Yoruba) Vs. 1867 (Bini).

——————————————————
But what does it really mean that I was able to produce an 1845 written evidence and the Binis weren’t able to come even close to that ??

Well, it just simply means that the Binis weren’t able to come close to the Yorubas, despite their own bogus claim of wRiTteN eViDeNcE. Nothing more, nothing less! [I know I’m being too nice now].

To put the same question in other words:
Does the comparative written evidence already provided really mean that the Binis began using this word only in the year 1867 — because that’s all they could provide ??

Funny enough, this line of warped reasoning is what the disgruntled Binis have been trailing. Should I play their game along with them? No, I’m Yoruba!

To every sound and logically mind, such conclusion (based on available writing) is too obvious as a flawed reasoning and logical fallacy — even though I could have forced their own flawed reasoning down their throats.

Such particular logical fallacy is know in analytical logic specifically by the name: argumentum ex silentio.

————————————————————
Having debunked their deluded claim of 1930s [see (1)]; having exposed @samuk’s fraud of “600 years” old writing [see (2)]; having exposed their inability to produce anything close to (let alone earlier than) the Yorubas’ [see (2)]; having debunked their warped logic of arguing from earlier written usage (despite the fact that it favours me); I now turn, at this point, to discussing the actual objective evidence for determining the indigenous ownership of a word — that is, the linguistic evidence.

——————————————————————
The Argument:
(I) If a word is in use in a particular language, but its literal meaning can not be meaningfully analyzed within that language; then such word does not originally belong to that language. Gbam!

(II) The word “Ọba” (as used by the Binis for their monarch) does not have any literal meaning in the language of the Binis.

(III) In conclusion, the word “Ọba” (as used by the Binis for their monarch) does not belong originally to the Bini language — In other words, it is a loanword.

————————————————————
The Evidence:
An objective source of evidence for the meanings of Bini words is obviously and undoubtedly an authoritative dictionary of the Bini language itself.

[This is not to be confused with a dictionary of the English language which simply features a paltry number of non-English words of widespread, global, popular usage — such as: “fufu”, “agbada”, “oba”, et al.]

As such, recourse will now be made to a Bini-English Lexicon. This is so that the English readers here can access the written meanings which are attributed to the actual Bini words.

One such example of an authoritative material for this purpose is the work entitled: “A Concise Dictionary of The Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” compiled by the professor of African Phonetics and Linguistics, Hans Melzian.

———————————————————
Under the entry “Ọba” (for which Professor Melzian used “ɔ” to represent “ọ“, in order to distinguish /o/ as in odd from /o/ as in old ); the following are some interesting observations from this Bini dictionary.

(A) Unlike what the author did with virtually all other Bini words within the same dictionary, he did not give a literal meaning to this word — as I have expected.

Rather, he simply describes the person whom the Binis refer to by this word. Interesting, isn’t it?! See embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754901_bb7fcaad09fc479498aedbb24cb57370_jpeg_jpeg80dbd02cb7ce1db81e998db7e161c38e

(B) But more than that, the author (in fact) let the cat out of the bag. He revealed why this word could not have had a literal meaning in a dictionary of Bini language.

Before I reveal his reason, it is important that one is acquainted with a few notations and abbreviations which he define in his work.

Two examples of these are relevant to my discourse here, and they are: “Yor.” and “cf.” which he defines as: “Yoruba” and “etymological reference” respectively.

See embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754902_541f22648c37485488282bea682c0e27_jpeg_jpegf272ec9b7e8de333789df15c524980aa

In the light of this background, let’s then see what reason the author indicates as to why this word could have appeared without a literal meaning in the Bini dictionary.

See embedded image below as highlighted on the top-right corner in continuation of the bottom-left corner.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754903_7e31a3d03b7c407ab60e863fbf8fb4c2_jpeg_jpegfba5de93eebde69a9ef00beabf7a605c

In the light of his foregoing definition of abbreviations, what we have here in the phrase “cf. Yor. ɔba” then becomes extremely clear and straightforward.

In other words, the word “Ọba” [ɔba] (used by the Binis for their monarch) has its ”etymology” [cf.] (aka. ”origin”) in the Yoruba language [Yor.].

Quod Erat Demonstrandum!

Arrewa:
First of all... The op is not a northerner but an ipob member. This same moniker has been condemning the north and praising ipob.

Every tribe has their own share of criminals!

If any Hausa or fulani criminals giving us bad name are caught in any part of the west then let's the law take it place.

The op is an igbo man

GreyLaw:
What happened to Enugu international airport? It wasn't built in this administration. Again, the Enugu-Onitsha expressway wasn't started in this administration. The second Niger bridge was also not started in this administration, neither has it been completed. In fact, the previous government did the concessioning and all that.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

TAO11:
You have made very beautiful submissions on the overall. It couldn’t have been better said by anyone else.

However, far from being very critical of your points — but just to further clarify one of them (the bolded particularly); the Itsekiris self-identify to the Europeans as belonging to the broader Yoruba ethnic group.

For example, the accounts of Captain H.L. Gallwey which he collected among the people in the 1800s has the following to say about their identity:

“Let me now refer briefly to the tribes that people this part of the world. First we come to the Jakris [Itsekiris], who are connected in race and language with the Yoruba people, extending from the Mahin country on the west to the Forcados on the East, and inland about as far as Sapele.”

Reference: H.L. Gallwey, “Journeys in the Benin Country, West Africa”, The Geographical Journal, Vol. 1, No. 2 (Feb., 1893), p.127.

Furthermore, H. Ling Roth also published the following statement to the same effect in the year 1903:

“In this respect, however, the officials agree with the tradition of the people at Warri, the Jekries [Itsekiris], who claim to come from the west.”

Reference: H.L. Roth, ”Great Benin: Its Customs, Arts and Horrors”, F. King & Sons, Ltd., 1903, pp.8-9.

As such, the (understandable) naiveness of many of their young people on this issue is only a relatively recent modern development — rather than an age-long historical reality.

But to be fair to their present-day older generation, the information available to Itsekiri’s informed leaders of thought appears to be in stark conflict with the youthful imaginations of these younger generations.

For example, the reigning Olu, Ogiame Ikenwoli I regards himself as a member of the Oduduwa household from Ife (via the Benin royal line). So also is Pastor Oritsejafor who as an Itsekiri man admits his Yoruba heritage in unequivocal terms.

Peace!

flyingpig:
PDP is now controlled by South South. Wike feeling like an emperor and eyeing VP slot.

samuk:
Your submission is very skewed and biased, you already concludes that certain tribes are Igbo before calling for DNA evidence.

Supposing a DNA analysis shows that all the people of southern and middle belt Nigeria are related, what name would you call them, would you then agree to be called Benin due to this blood relationship, because the name Benin is older than Igbo or should the Edo, Yoruba, Igala, Idoma etc, people that share this common blood
relationship now be called Igbo.

If you wouldn't agree to being called Benin, Igala or Idoma (all older names than Igbo), why then would you want Ikwerre or any other independent tribe outside the south east to accept the Igbo tag even if DNA shows blood relationship between these tribes and those that now call themselves Igbo.

Artificial names such as Igbo and Yoruba have to be agreed to by every one that want to be identified as such. Anioma is a collection of formerly different tribes that made up Delta North, all these tribes don't have issues being called Anioma today even though they have different heritages, Same way the old Bendelites were proud of the name Bendel. The name Igbo should be confined to south east rather than forcing tribes outside the south east to adopt it.


The name Igbo seems to be problem for those outside the south east to identify with, other tribes are not keen to associate with the people that currently goes by the social political name Igbo. The question should be why?

The Igbo can drop Igbo and adopt the name Ikwerre instead of Igbo for all the tribes in the south east, I am sure the Ikwerre people wouldn't mind. If you can't adopt Ikwerre why would you want Ikwerre to adopt Igbo identity.

Muyiwaipere:
I have a Toyota Camry 2005 Toks statndard for sale at 1.2

Very neat first body
Ac chilling
No problem at all
Call or Whatsapp
0 7 0 8 9 9 6 2 4 7 0

ogododo:
Finally Oghenewarho go be his name
Lalasticlala

HIGHESTPOPORI:
Has Apc and Buhari been fair to the East? The East got higher positions of Government in Pdp than Apc

Olu317:
@ alba3, you actually gave a great shot at the meaning of Alaba and I am 100% convinced with research that all Yoruba names are derived from Semitic root and Arabic words. Even the English names are derived through English interpreters of Hebrew'sTorah.

While,you are tryng to intrepete ìdẹ̀ as bronze is a inaccurate even if it you did a great justice to your view.Here are the classic meaning of ìdẹ̀,Ọ́jẹ̀ and ṣẹkè ṣẹ̀kẹ̀ as following :

ìdẹ̀=brass

Ọ́jẹ̀=bronze

ṣẹ̀kè ṣẹ̀kẹ̀ or ṣẹ̀kẹ̀ = chain,iron



Cheers

RuudVanNisteroy:
Warri is much bigger than you think, even though Onitsha may have twice it's population and more densely populated.

absoluteSuccess:
We can't exhaust what we've inherited from the makers of Yoruba culture, but we aren't doing anything to make a subject of Yoruba cultural philosophy.

I've picked a name, already registered with the trade and commerce as trademark. With it I hope I can kindle the Yoruba rebirth.

If not, I would have done my best altogether at the expiration of breath.