₦airaland Forum

@chukwudi44: why are you shifting all over the place.
I said:

aletheia:
^But only the papists and the islamists promise or promised a heavenly reward for killing "in the name of God".

And you challenged me thus:

chukwudi44:
where on earth did u read that that catholic church promised heaven 2 those who commit murder.Admittedly some killings were pepetrated by catholics but no one was promised heaven 4 committing them.

Wherein the evidence was provided:

Wikipedia: Pope Urban II defined and launched the crusades at the Council of Clermont in 1095. He was a reformer worried about the evils which had hindered the spiritual success of the church and its clergy and the need for a revival of religiosity. He was moved by the urgent appeal for help from Byzantine Emperor Alexius I. Urban's solution was announced on the last day of the council when the pope suddenly proclaimed the Crusade against the infidel Muslims. He called for Christian princes across Europe to launch a holy war in the Holy Land. He contrasted the sanctity of Jerusalem and the holy places with the plunder and desecration by the infidel Turks. He exited outrage by vividly describing attacks upon the Christian pilgrims. He also noted the military threat to the fellow Christians of Byzantium. He charged Christians to take up the holy cause, promising to all those who went remission of sins and to all who died in the expedition immediate entry into heaven

The question is: did the Roman Catholic Church promise heaven to those who committed murder? The answer is irrefutably yes it did. So all this waffling about morally and legally justified crusades cannot negate that fact.

chukwudi44:
where on earth did u read that that catholic church promised heaven 2 those who commit murder.Admittedly some killings were pepetrated by catholics but no one was promised heaven 4 committing them.

^

Wikipedia: Pope Urban II defined and launched the crusades at the Council of Clermont in 1095. He was a reformer worried about the evils which had hindered the spiritual success of the church and its clergy and the need for a revival of religiosity. He was moved by the urgent appeal for help from Byzantine Emperor Alexius I. Urban's solution was announced on the last day of the council when the pope suddenly proclaimed the Crusade against the infidel Muslims. He called for Christian princes across Europe to launch a holy war in the Holy Land. He contrasted the sanctity of Jerusalem and the holy places with the plunder and desecration by the infidel Turks. He exited outrage by vividly describing attacks upon the Christian pilgrims. He also noted the military threat to the fellow Christians of Byzantium. He charged Christians to take up the holy cause, promising to all those who went remission of sins and to all who died in the expedition immediate entry into heaven

Do you deny your "infallible" pope?

chukwudi44:
If you say martin luther is only historical to u so also is the inquisitions to a modern catholic.

^Nice try but not quite the same. The Roman Catholic Church is an institution that claims for itself continuity and authority from ancient times. The Roman Catholic Church has never apologized for the Inquisition nor the millions of souls it murdered in Europe, Asia, Africa and the Americas. Moreover you seem to miss the import of what I am saying: It is you Roman Catholics that are obsessed by Martin Luther and I can understand why: he dealt a massive blow to your Pope's authority. . .but when all is said and done he is yet but a man. I am not given to veneration of dead men as you Catholics are. . .so Luther only holds historical interest for me.

PA1982:
Could you give some sources for that, please?

^You need to interact with Muslim sources more: From their own quran:

9:29 Fight against such of those to whom the Scriptures were given as believe neither in God nor the Last Day, who do not forbid what God and His apostle have forbidden, and do not embrace the true Faith, until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued.

As Muhammad lay dying, these were some of his last words:

"May Allah curse the Jews and Christians for they built the places of worship at the graves of the prophets." Bukhari, Vol. 1, #427

PA1982:
And protestants hate Catholics!

. . .history bears this out. Religion is Politics.

PA1982:
Jerusalem.
Yes.
I'm surprised you're leaving the Greek Orthodoxes out of the equation, aletheia.
Odd, considering the squabbles over religious details in points of pilgrimage.

^You can include the Eastern Orthodox Churches as well if you wish. . .the key difference is that the RCC desires temporal control over Jerusalem. In any case, all such pilgrimages are are a sham.

chukwudi44:
killing in d name of God is not restricted to either islam or catholic christianity.protestants have also killed in the name of God.most notably in the european religious wars of the seventeenth century.

^But only the papists and the islamists promise or promised a heavenly reward for killing "in the name of God". In any case your argument is weak. Are you justifying evil because others commit evil.

chukwudi44:
You might want 2 read martin luthers treatise called on the jews and their lies which in turn inspired the greatest genocide in history-the nazi holocaust.Not to mention the killing of alleged child witches by akwa ibom pentecostal pastors

^Again, are you justifying Roman Catholic evil by the evil committed by others? (In any case, the pentecostal movement is a daughter of Rome). Martin Luther only holds historical interest to me. He is not Jesus whom your church denies but I can understand the angst concerning Martin Luther.

Sweetnecta:
and he hates catholics with harshness against Mary.

^I hate and detest Islam, Roman Catholic religion and the "Queen of Heaven". There! Do your worst. . .

^Muslims hate Christianity with some soft spot for Catholics because of Mary.
Catholics hate Protestant Christianity.

Both sects want Jerusalem. Both sects do so love "pilgrimages". Both sects have killed or will kill "in the name of God."

*bump*

Catholics & Muslims making common cause on this thread. Mother & daughter together. . .isn't that interesting?

@ sweetnecta: you are floundering and grasping, drowning under the weight of your own contradictions:

Sweetnecta:
I said lake of fire. how did you come to hell?

Whether lake of fire or hell. The fact is that you confessed that is where your god allah and his false prophet Muhammad belong.

(Rev 20:10 [KJV])
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
I read that as:
1. Devil = allah
2. beast = Islam/Roman Catholic/all other false systems/kingdoms of men
3. false prophet = Muhammad

Sweetnecta:
The Jews hate your gut that he will string you on a cross like he did your god if he ever catch you alone in Israel. I have proofs, aletheia and if you have guts, all you have to say is that I show it.

So what if the Jews hate me. The Muslims even hate me more. All of you haters whether Jews or Muslims are under a curse so long as you reject Jesus Christ of Nazareth as Lord and Son of God. Almighty God already punished Israel in AD 70 when he took away their temple and their nation. God has already begun the process of restoration of Israel: which is why once again Jews are in Judaea & Samaria & Galilee and all the armies of Islam have not been able to defeat them. Sure allah is a powerless god for he cannot grant victory to Islam's armies against Israel or against the Western armies. Islam's turn for judgement will come. The blood of all the Christians that have been shed by Islam cries out to God for vengeance and so judgement will come swiftly. The upheavals in the Islamic world this year are but the beginning.

Sweetnecta:
Just like the curse on Jesus, I bet. If Jesus is truly curse as Paul said, you, aletheia have no hpe until get away from the curse one.

No man speaking by the Spirit of God can say "Jesus is cursed". But we already know where you belong.

Sweetnecta:
So after all your denials, you live in my beloved 9JA after all. Good christian man. You are the son of your father, Paul, who is a liar and a killer before. Are there Muslim Northern Nigerian Doctors? Of course, there are, you blind as a bat doctor. I hope you are giving anybody medicine because you will definitely give wrong medicine. No one should allow you to think, because you are bad thinker. No hospital should allow you to perform any operation because your anger will make you a butcher. No Northern Nigerian Muslim who is educated? Of course there are Northern Nigerian Muslims with scholarship in all fields. The head of the Judiciary is one. And all the school of medicine in the Northern part of Nigeria is not completely staffed by doctors who are southern Christians like the incompetent Aletheia, who cant separate his anger, his fallacy from reality.

Getting personal are we? Your people no dey go school so in the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. Go to Northern Nigeria. Most of the doctors in the Federal Medical Centers and Teaching Hospitals in that region are Southerners & people from the Middle-Belt. Any one of una people wey manage become doctor is celebrated as if he or she is a demi-god because dem no plenty. Of course a few Muslims have won scholarships (the preponderance of the scholarships being from their State Governments).

Of course like I said: Islam kills a man's spirit and destroys his mind which why you were never able to grasp the simple fact that I was in the USA studying for a post-graduate degree before returning to Nigeria. And by the way: A lot of your Muslim "brothers" do consult with me and are extremely satisfied with the care they receive. Some of them have even expressed a desire to become Christians and some of them have. Just so you know, I am from the North and have schooled and worked in the North since I was 10 yrs.

But we know say all this your yarn na attempt to make us forget say Muhammad been dey drink ALCOHOL & dey take am bathe: After all him talk say alcohol dey purify: it is a drink and a purifier." -Musnad Ahmad - Hadith #3594

Oya begin purify yourself now now. Why you dey wait for afterlife?

Sweetnecta:
Get lost you freaking freak aletheia. You are not thinking at all.

^
Au contraire, monsieur. J'ai l'intention de rester ici jusqu'à ce que je suis fatigué.

Sweetnecta:
. . .the lake of fire, which is the kingdom of our god.

^ How did we miss this? Behold sweetnecta's (nopuqeater's) true confession. allah his god belongs in hell. And just so you wont turn round and accuse me of forging your words (and to prevent you from going back to dishonestly alter them): below is a screenshoot of the precise post.


No matter how you pretend and mouth pious platitudes. All true muslims; I repeat all true Muslims have a raging anger and hate burning in their heart towards Christians and Jews. Some are better at hiding it.
All you Muslims are cursed until you accept Jesus as Lord, as the Son of God. For scripture cannot be broken: "I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you." Is it any wonder that the most backward countries and regions of the world are those where Islam holds sway: "An Abomination that causes desolation". Look at Northern Nigeria. Even come to Jos and you will see that the Muslim dominated areas are the poorest and decrepit. They provide the bulk of the patients that seek attention in the hospitals in Jos and yet hypocrites all: Education is haram.

Anti-north bigotry masquerading as rational and intelligent discourse on this thread. Is Gusau not also a Nigerian? Doesn't the security challenges affect all of us, North and South? So because he contested for the post of the presidency with the incumbent, he shouldn't be contacted for input into solving the the current security problems? None of you is fit to hold any leadership position?

And it's you same bigots that probably hailed Obama for appointing Clinton into his cabinet and probably applauded the Cameron-Clegg partnership.

Moderator: why is this thread not in the Jokes section? This cheapens the political section. It's satire but we know that a lot commentators in this political section will not recognize that. After all Bakare called all of us i diot s.

^^^
sweetnecta & co are in a frothing rage:
Did I not quote from your very own hadiths. This is the truth that you don't want Muslims to know. That is why you hide the words of your false "qara" in Arabic; so that you can twist and turn in the wind and when you are finally done join Muhammad in hell where on the Day he won't be able to save himself talk less of you. Or are you hoping that you shall be recognized by the callus on your forehead after the fire of hell has reduced you to a cindered husk. Is this not also written in your hadiths? Slaves of Satan! How many of your so-called Muslim "brothers" have studied the hadiths for themselves?

Sweetnecta:
^ please dont worship me, you idolator, by your 'for your sake'.

So "for your sake" implies worship, you illiterate slave of the false god hubal variously known as allah, or ar-rahman.

Sweetnecta:
Am i lying

^You are a liar for you are a veritable tool and slave of satan. When he lies, he speaks his native language. . .how much more you brood of serpents descended from satan. It will be proven from your words below that you lie!

Sweetnecta:
I am going to read the garbage this garbage is quoting

This "garbage" is Sahih Muslim - Hadith #3753. Do you deny and repudiate your hadiths then? You are a false Muslim for in your hadiths lies the sunnah of your false prophet Muhammad. How else will you follow the example of your prophet? Did your false quran tell you to pray 5 times a day? The hadith stated clearly that Muhammad drank alcohol using some mind tricks to confuse his gullible followers. LOL at Have you covered it with a twig in a transverse manner”?

Sweetnecta:
Translation: "It is called nabeezen because whoever takes it, he takes dates or raisin and yanbuzu (the act ) in a pot or something like that (sekaa) and adds water to them and leaves them till they ferment يفور and they become intoxicant."

From the above definition we can understand that nabeez can be intoxicant and causes intoxication. In the same dictionary (Lesan Al-Arab) لسان العرب we read that: Translation: “Entabaztuhu (the past tense from entabaza) …… taken as nabeezen whether it is intoxicant or not, it is called nabeezen and alkhamr (strong drink) squeezed from vine is called nabeez and the nabeez is called khamr (strong drink)”

From the above definition we understand that nabeez can be intoxicant and both words khamr and nabeez can replace one another and are thus synonyms. Now let us see what the dictionary say about the word khamr (strong drink). Translation: Alkhamr (the strong drink) what has become intoxicant from the juice of vine because it has affected the mind.

On the same page, Abu Haneefa أبو حنيفة said Al-Khamr could be from grains …. Ibn Sayadahu ابن سيده said that he allowed that as in fact al khamr is made only from wine and not from any other thing.

Truly your delusion is strong for the very words you quote from the dictionary confirm that Muhammad drank alcohol. Your own words judge you! The word nabeez from the hadith is wine. And your words confirm it:

Sweetnecta:
1. Translation: "It is called nabeezen because whoever takes it, he takes dates or raisin and yanbuzu (the act ) in a pot or something like that (sekaa) and adds water to them and leaves them till they ferment يفور and they become intoxicant."

^ When it ferments, what does it become? Guess: ALCOHOL

Sweetnecta:
2. From the above definition we can understand that nabeez can be intoxicant and causes intoxication.

^So if it is intoxicant, what is it? Guess: ALCOHOL

Sweetnecta:
In the same dictionary (Lesan Al-Arab) لسان العرب we read that: Translation: “Entabaztuhu (the past tense from entabaza) …… taken as nabeezen whether it is intoxicant or not, [b]3. it is called nabeezen[/b] and alkhamr (strong drink) squeezed from vine is called nabeez and the nabeez is called khamr (strong drink)”

^So nabeezen and alkhamr are synonyms. If it is squeezed from vine, that makes it wine and moreover nabeez is called khamr (strong drink). So if it is strong drink, what is it? Guess: ALCOHOL

Sweetnecta:
4. From the above definition we understand that nabeez can be intoxicant and both words khamr and nabeez can replace one another and are thus synonyms. Now let us see what the dictionary say about the word khamr (strong drink). Translation: Alkhamr (the strong drink) what has become intoxicant from the juice of vine because it has affected the mind.

^Alkhamr (the strong drink) what has become intoxicant from the juice of vine. So if it is intoxicant, what is it? Guess: ALCOHOL

Sweetnecta:
On the same page, Abu Haneefa أبو حنيفة said Al-Khamr could be from grains …. Ibn Sayadahu ابن سيده said that he allowed that as in fact al khamr is made only from wine and not from any other thing.

^Una "scholars" no fit even agree among themselves;
A. Abu Haneefa أبو حنيفة said Al-Khamr could be from grains. Hello? Here is a memo: If it is from grains and your words already admit that Al-Khamr is STRONG DRINK; then that is a form of BEER. Guess what: beer is ALCOHOLIC
B. Ibn Sayadahu ابن سيده said that he allowed that as in fact al khamr is made only from [b]wine[/b]. Guess what? Wine is ALCOHOLIC

Not only did Muhammad drink wine, he like the thing so tey he even carry am bathe: Or is this not also written in your hadiths?

Narrated by Abdullah bin Masoud (May God be pleased with him):
He was with the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him on the night of the jinn when he asked him if he had water. He answered that he had wine in a pot. Mohammed said: Pour me some to do ablution and he did. [The] Prophet peace be upon him [said]: "O Abdullah bin Masood it is a drink and a purifier."
Musnad Ahmad - Hadith #3594

Ibn 'Abbas reported that Nabidh was prepared for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) in the waterskin, Shu'ba said: It was the night of Monday. He drank it on Monday and on Tuesday up to the afternoon, and If anything was left out of it he gave it to his servant or poured it out.
Sahih Muslim 23:4972

Since alcohol na purifier, make una begin purify unself for here O. Why wait for rivers of alcohol to bathe in in the hereafter.

Islam kills a man's spirit and destroys his mind. Imagine you couldn't even understand the dictionary quotes you pasted! No wonder education dey haram for una. Make una waka from here make we hear word jare!

Really? largerwhenindoubt: And the atheists do not "punctuate [their] statements with a direct and blanket insults to give it weight, smacks of
willful disrespect and is an assault on the intelligence of posters Who attempt to gain some value from an intelligent gathering."
On this same thread from one of you "atheists":

claremont:
The religious goons [/i]invented the devil myth because they needed to have a character that will act like a boogie man, inculcating a culture of fear on their fellow [i]goons.

So in your book, "goon" is a blanket term of endearment? Aren't you guys being hypocritical? If sexkillz gets your goat, why don't y'all ignore him?

^

aletheia:
It may not be wrong per se for a Christian to sue another Christian - I'm still unsure about that

I really don't know. I guess it boils down to the individual, hoping the Holy Spirit will guide accordingly. In the case of a crime like despoil, it may probably be best to sue the offender. . .to prevent others falling victim.

^Such delusion. On behalf of your family I am for your sake.

No matter how you try you can never drag the pure gospel of Christ down to the level of the putrid Islamic garbage that you lot spew out daily. BTW I hope you know your false prophet drank alcohol while denying all you followers of his the same here, only to turn around to promise you rivers of the alcohol in the hereafter. Such a vision could only have arisen out of an alcohol-fueled haze of inebriation.

Narrated by Gaber bin Abdullah:
We were with the messenger of Allah, PBUH and he asked for a drink. One of his men said: "Oh Messenger of Allah, Can we offer you wine to drink?" He said Yes. He (Gaber) went out looking for the drink and came back with a cup of wine. The messenger (Peace Be Upon him) asked, “Have you covered it with a twig in a transverse manner” He (Gaber) said, “Yes” and he (Muhammad) drank.
Sahih Muslim - Hadith #3753

wordtalk:
(a) How many of the "613 OT laws/commandments" do you have left after you have determined that "over 600" of them are NOT repeated?

^If I understand garyarnorld: he said nine were repeated. So this leaves 604? Is that not ""over 600" of them are NOT repeated?"

@Topic: Yes. Go here
@Joagbaje: Do we really have to do this again? What sort of pastor jettisons the Word of God for man-made fables. One more time I ask you: what is the clear cut bible verses/evidence for your pre-Adam creation. No Dake's heretical teachings are acceptable.

I wonder why the atheists all get their knickers into a twist because of sexkillz. . .to the point of manmustwac threatening him with a ban? Is it because by his antics he punctures the pretensions of the nairaland's atheists and their pathetic attempts to take themselves serious? Is it because by his words he shows clearly that he's laughing at them and cannot be bothered to take them serious. And we all know how nairaland's atheists cannot bear being laughed at or not taken serious.

Earlier on there was this quote:

harakiri:
@sexkillz, If I was a moderator on this forum, I would have banned you outrightly.

And right on cue:

manmustwac:
So am now warning you to expect a ban if you continue the way you do for being NOTHING but a big NUISANCE

^Let it be noted that manmustwac typed some words in ALL CAPS in the post above and yet threatens to ban sexkillz for using the same technique to emphasize his posts.
For shame! What hypocrisy!

@InesQor:
You are welcome. God bless you my brother.

wordtalk:
- I've often wondered about the quote in that passage: is it wrong among and between believers to deal with legal issues, whether:

(a) a Christian being subpoenaed or taken to court by another Christian?

^The key words in the preceding verses are I believe: "But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers." Family quarrels ought not to be settled by outsiders. It may not be wrong per se for a Christian to sue another Christian - I'm still unsure about that
But definitely the higher way is to suffer yourself to be "taken advantage" of. qv. Matt 18:15-17

wordtalk:
(b) a Christian suing another Christian on some serious crime?

^As in murder? Or being personally defrauded? Could you be more specific please?

wordtalk:
(c)  a Christian suing a non-Christian in cases involving serious legal challenges?

^How about:
(Matt 5:39-45 [KJV])
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

I think if Jesus asks us to do this with respect to non-Christians who sue us then it can be inferred how we should proceed in the matter of a Christian suing a non-Christian

There are a bunch of illiterate dolts on this thread who are incapable of reading and processing the news article:

1. Ileke-IdI
2. seanet02
3. Ten Kobo
4. wazobia-ng
5. ola olabiy
6. tunnytox
7. Floxyluv
8. gossips
9. dayokanu


More idiots will presently show up to comment without reading the article in question.

InesQor:
Sincerely here are my thoughts: Try each step if the previous one fails

1) Try to get him to settle amicably
2) Tell the pastor of the church you both attend
3) Tell someone (s)he looks up to in his/her family
4) Tell the police and get him arrested

That way, nobody will say you didn't try. However, I will advise you not to trust people just because they say they are Christian. Only God knows Christians.

^
[b]
[center]I[/center]
(Matt 18:15 - 17[KJV])
Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
[center]II[/center]
(1Cor 6:1-7 [KJV])
Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
[center]III[/center]
(Matt 5:40 [KJV])
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. [/b]

DrummaBoy:
Bakare's words will cause a revolution in this country
Not debatable

Actually very debatable. Keep dreaming. Bakare's words will cause. . .nada. Case in point. Since you are so inspired by Bakare's words, why are you not out there rallying the revolutionaries.
SMH at Nairaland wannabe revolutionaries whose revolution starts and ends on the pages of this forum. You think say revolution na beans?

@Topic: At the end of the day his speech amounts to. . .words. Nothing more. Shakespeare put it well:

. . .it is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.

^
Na those few verses dey make una head plait. Oya some more for una because una neva see all of dem finish:

[b]You are like a wild donkey, sniffing the wind at mating time. Who can restrain her lust? Those who desire her don't need to search, for she goes running to them! Jer 2:24

(Ezek 23:1-10[KJV])
The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother: And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their br easts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity. And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah. And Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians her neighbours, Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses. Thus she committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself. Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the bosoms of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her. Wherefore I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, upon whom she doted. These discovered her unclothedness: they took her sons and her daughters, and slew her with the sword: and she became famous among women; for they had executed judgment upon her.


Ezek 23:20
She lusted after lovers with gen it als as large as a donkey's and emissions like those of a horse.[/b]

Plenty still remain way I fit bring. Hypocrites. Na de same bible una dey try look for proof for una prophet. Na de same bible una de like read.

vedaxcool:
[size=18pt]yet Pastor Frosbel and Bishop alithea cannot offer any sane or sound excuse on why such repugnance are found in the bible of all places. [/size]

^
"Repugnant" to hypocritical Muslims who pretend piety whereas all the world knows the filth and perversion that characterizes Islam. Whereas history shows what a bloodthirsty depraved narcissist it was that founded that religion of horrors that blights and desolates all parts of the world it enters.

You have already been answered. You are hard of hearing. . .and blind to boot. Come out of the darkness and let Christ shine on you!

aletheia:
^
Indeed! And that is something you Muslims do not understand unless the Holy Spirit reveals it to you. As it is written: (Ps 32:1-2 [KJV]) Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

The Bible tells it as it is: warts and all that you may see that all men without exception (including the true and false prophets) are sinners. Even your Mohammed had an intimation of that for in your Islamic tales we find that he needed his heart washed by water from a well. Why did Mohammed ibn Abdullah need to have his heart washed by water from zam zam well?

The Bible also tells you that only through Jesus Christ of Nazareth are the sins of men requited, atoned for and forgiven. As it is written: (Acts 4:12 [KJV]) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

And God gave proof of this by raising him from the dead. . .
^Where is the body of Jesus? Muhammad's lies "moldering" in the grave. But we see Jesus exalted and alive.

And of course it has been proven on this thread that Muhammad was a sinner just like every other man. This is true and has got you stumped for words hence you keep quiet hoping this evidence will go away.

aletheia:
Comment: The traditions that Muhammad needed two or three surgeries to have his body operated upon and filled with belief, is astounding in its implications. Why would the most 'perfect' of men need to have himself 'scourged' from unbelief  several times in his lifetime is beyond understanding. On the contrary, this shows that Muhammad was SINFUL and repeatedly failing in BELIEF.
In conclusion, the Hadiths above, completely and utterly DESTROY, DEMOLISH and CONTRADICT, all of Muhammad's followers assertions that he was SINLESS, in their DOGMA of 'ISMA'.

As it is written:  If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

^
And you know where all sinners go, if they do not repent and turn to Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Indeed your god and your false prophet assure you that not one of you Muslims shall fail to enter into that place. Therefore come to the Son that you may be free.
Perhaps you should read Dante's description of Muhammad in hell.

Sweetnecta:
@Aletheia; a false prophet will say something unfulfilled.

^Right. Tell us about Muhammad's prophecy of Dhul Qarnayn and Gog and Magog. Have you found the gate yet?

Sweetnecta:
Perfect man has room to improve;

^If it needs to improve then it is not perfect. But then allah needs to improve. . .since he's supposed to be perfect.

Sweetnecta:
The purity of the heart of Muhammad [as] made him strong even when death approached him.

^I see. Muhammad was strong when death approached him. Really? Again I appeal to your own historians:

Muhammad died in Jun 632 A.D., at the age of 63, after being poisoned by a Jewess.

From Bukhari's Hadith 4.394:  
Narrated Abu Huraira:  When Khaibar was conquered, a roasted poisoned sheep was presented to the Prophet as a gift (by the Jews).  The Prophet ordered, "Let all the Jews who have been here, be assembled before me."  The Jews were collected and the Prophet said (to them), "I am going to ask you a question.  Will you tell the truth?"  They said, "Yes." The Prophet asked, "Who is your father?"  They replied, "So-and-so."  He said, "You have told a lie; your father is so-and-so."  They said,  "You are right." He said, "Will you now tell me the truth, if I ask you about something?"  They replied, "Yes, O Abu Al-Qasim; and if we should tell a lie, you can realize our lie as you have done regarding our father."  On that he asked, "Who are the people of the (Hell) Fire?"  They said, "We shall remain in the (Hell) Fire for a short period, and after that you will replace us."  The Prophet said, "You may be cursed and humiliated in it!  By Allah, we shall never replace you in it."  Then he asked, "Will you now tell me the truth if I ask you a question?"  They said, "Yes, O Abu Al-Qasim."  He asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?"  They said, "Yes."  He asked, "What made you do so?"  They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you."

Notice the very simple test the woman set for Muhammad:
A. If he was a liar then he was going to die from the poison
B. If he was a true prophet then the poison would not harm him.

What happened?

From Bukhari's Hadith 5.713:

Narrated Ibn Abbas:
'Umar bin Al-Khattab used to let Ibn Abbas sit beside him, so 'AbdurRahman bin 'Auf said to 'Umar, "We have sons similar to him." 'Umar replied, "(I respect him) because of his status that you know."  'Umar then asked Ibn 'Abbas about the meaning of this Holy Verse:-- "When comes the help of Allah and the conquest of Mecca . . ." (110.1)
Ibn 'Abbas replied, "That indicated the death of Allah's Apostle which Allah informed him of."  'Umar said, "I do not understand of it except what you understand."
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."

So we see condition A: If he was a liar then he was going to die from the poison, fulfilled.

So was Muhammad strong as death approached or he behaved just like other men who tried to get healed?

From Sahih Muslim volume 3, # 5440
Aisha reported that when Allah’s Messenger fell ill, he recited over his body Mu’awwidhatan and blew over him and when his sickness was aggravated I used to recite over him and rub him with his hand with the hope that it was more blessed.

From Ibn Sa'd's Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir page 265
The apostle of Allah fell ill and he i.e. Gabriel, chanted on him, saying, "In the name of Allah I chant on to ward off from you every thing that harms you and (to ward off you) against every envier and from every evil eye and Allah will heal you."


Comment:
If Muhammad were a real prophet of God, why didn't he catch the poison before he ate it?
If you believe that it was allah's will for Muhammad to have eaten the poison, along with Bishr, why then did Muhammad try to get well? Even Gabriel prayed for Muhammad to get better, but allah didn't answer that prayer either.

Where is the much vaunted 'pure' heart that was strong when death approached him. The barely concealed shame of Islam is that a woman killed Muhammad. So much for being strong.

But you are "showing" your hand. Last option should have just read: "None of the Three" without the added "explanation" of "because. . ." That biases the poll.

vedaxcool:
. . .in essence you wrote if I understand that prophets where not sinnless in the bible - yuck what a repugnant statement-

^You only affirm what I wrote earlier.

aletheia:
The verses are repugnant to you Muslims because of your delusion that your prophet was sinless. These verses in the Bible clearly show that all men including and most especially Mohammed ibn Abdullah are sinners. Only Jesus the Messiah is without sin.
Muslims are afraid when they see these verses (for the Bible describes man as he is) because it reminds them that Mohammed is a sinner and they have put their hope in a sinner. By attacking these verses they seek to assuage their fears.

In any case why do the Islamic fables claim that the "prophet" had his heart washed by water from the well? Why did he need this?

^
My last question was rhetoric aimed at getting you Muslims to once again examine the faulty assumptions that underpin all your doctrines.

Sweetnecta:
A little boy in field needed his heart to be washed, when Jesus said to be in Paradise your heart have to be pure like that of a child?

^@Sweetnecta: You hardly make sense and it is tedium filtering what you write for sense. You are like a spambot stringing together words. So Mohammed the false prophet needed his heart washed as a child? Why was that, I wonder? Which means his heart was impure ergo he was sinful. Here is a hint as to the symbolism of washing:

Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

And is it true that Mohammed's stories about being washed was only restricted to his childhood? Does what is clean require washing repeatedly?

Here is the evidence and verdict of history:
[center]I[/center]
Sirat Rassul'llah by Ibn Ishaq-
There is a tradition that when Muhammad was a little child (two to three years old), Halima his foster mother, was informed by Muhammad that ,

"Two men in white raiments came to him with a gold basin full of snow, who opened up his belly, extracted his heart and split it; then they extracted a leech/clot (Alaqa) from it and threw it away; then they washed his heart and belly with that snow until they had thoroughly cleaned them"

Comment: It is beyond belief to assume that a child of that age was alone tending flocks of animals, and who knew about snow in the unforgiving heat of the Arabian desert, as well as about gold or leeches that do not exist in waterless Arabia. What the story actually relates is that the surgery removed Muhammad's SINS at the age of 2/3.

[center]II[/center]
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 4.429
Narrated by Malik bin Sasaa
The Prophet said, "While I was at the House in a state midway between sleep and wakefulness, (an angel recognized me) as the man lying between two men. A golden tray full of wisdom and belief was brought to me and my body was cut open from the throat to the lower part of the abdomen and then my abdomen was washed with Zam-zam water and (my heart was) filled with wisdom and belief.

Comment: Once more at the age of about 50 years, Muhammad needed another PHYSICAL/ SPIRITUAL and INTELLECTUAL CLEANSING to remove his SINS and UNBELIEF.

[center]III[/center]
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 5.227
Narrated byAbbas bin Malik
Malik bin Sasaa said that Allah's Apostle described to them his Night Journey saying, "While I was lying in Al-Hatim or Al-Hijr, suddenly someone came to me and cut my body open from here to here." I asked Al-Jarud who was by my side, "What does he mean?" He said, "It means from his throat to his pubic area," or said, "From the top of the chest." The Prophet further said,"He then took out my heart. Then a gold tray of Belief was brought to me and my heart was washed and was filled (with Belief) and then returned to its original place"

Comment: The traditions that Muhammad needed two or three surgeries to have his body operated upon and filled with belief, is astounding in its implications. Why would the most 'perfect' of men need to have himself 'scourged' from unbelief several times in his lifetime is beyond understanding. On the contrary, this shows that Muhammad was SINFUL and repeatedly failing in BELIEF.
In conclusion, the Hadiths above, completely and utterly DESTROY, DEMOLISH and CONTRADICT, all of Muhammad's followers assertions that he was SINLESS, in their DOGMA of 'ISMA'.

As it is written: If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

LagosShia:
they were not only sinners.they were immoral of the highest magnitude.and your god approved of them and called them "righteous" and "annoited" and "beloved".

^
Indeed! And that is something you Muslims do not understand unless the Holy Spirit reveals it to you. As it is written: (Ps 32:1-2 [KJV]) Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

The Bible tells it as it is: warts and all that you may see that all men without exception (including the true and false prophets) are sinners. Even your Mohammed had an intimation of that for in your Islamic tales we find that he needed his heart washed by water from a well. Why did Mohammed ibn Abdullah need to have his heart washed by water from zam zam well?

The Bible also tells you that only through Jesus Christ of Nazareth are the sins of men requited, atoned for and forgiven. As it is written: (Acts 4:12 [KJV]) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

And God gave proof of this by raising him from the dead. . .

Wikipedia: Next to Muhammad's tomb, there is another empty tomb that Muslims believe awaits Jesus.

^Where is the body of Jesus? Muhammad's lies "moldering" in the grave. But we see Jesus exalted and alive.

(Rev 1:13-18 [KJV])
And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

LagosShia:
the average muslim who has no knowledge

Good. So you agree that the average Muslim actually knows nothing about Islam. We shall continue to educate them , O slave of Hubal.

^
I am not frosbel. Behave yourself!

They were all sinners. You can choke on that if you like. So now you seek to advance Roman Catholic rationalization. Not surprising really, seeing that Islam is but the daughter of Rome.

Mary was also a sinner in need of the grace of God.

vedaxcool:
Be honest won't this be the first time in your life ever seeing such repugnant verses?

First time? This is laughable. Do you think the Bible is like that false hodge-podge of lies, fables and myths that is called the "quran", that most Muslims barely understand. But of course Islam and Roman Catholicism are the same in that they both seek to hide the truth, so they assume that is what others will do.

The verses are repugnant to you Muslims because of your delusion that your prophet was sinless. These verses in the Bible clearly show that all men including and most especially Mohammed ibn Abdullah are sinners. Only Jesus the Messiah is without sin.
Muslims are afraid when they see these verses (for the Bible describes man as he is) because it reminds them that Mohammed is a sinner and they have put their hope in a sinner. By attacking these verses they seek to assuage their fears.

In any case why do the Islamic fables claim that the "prophet" had his heart washed by water from the well? Why did he need this?

@manmustwac:

I do not agree that the thread was derailed.

I am loath to accuse you of bias but I have a niggling suspicion that is what occurred.

manmustwac: The theists should stop defending thier God and tell God of the bible or God of the koran or whichever God they worship to stop hiding behind the clouds and replace the sun for 48 hours so we all can see that he is not imaginary.

I think you ought to reconsider your decision and unlock the thread.