₦airaland Forum

obadiah777:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXX4GvsnjJM <<<<< WATCH THIS FROM AN INSIDER. ITS CALLED THE REAL REASON WHY WAR IS COMING TO IRAN

Again, I clap for your theory. If China or Russia decides to buy/sell oil in any other currency than the US Dollar, they will be invaded. If Nigeria says no, I will sell my oil to South Africa in Euros; then I am sure America will invade Nigeria by your theory.

obadiah777: YOU ARE UNENLIGHTENED. OUT OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE CAME THE EUROZONE.OUT OF THE EUROZONE CAME CANADA AND UNITED STATES AND NORWAY IS PART OF THE EUROZONE. THIS IS AN EMPIRE. IT IS THE MODERN ROMAN EMPIRE. THEY ARE THE SAME PEOPLE. THEY WOULD NOT ATTACK EACH OTHER. BUT THATS BESIDES THE POINT. YOU DONT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT EXACTLY IS HAPPENING HERE. LET ME REPEAT. THE AMERICAN DOLLAR IS NOT BACKED BY GOLD. THE AMERICAN DOLLAR IS WORTHLESS. AND AMERICAN DOES NOT PRODUCE GOODS ANYMORE BECAUSE IT HAS SHIPPED ITS MANUFACTURING BASE ABROAD MEANING THEY CANT EVEN TRADE BY BARTER BECAUSE THEY PRODUCE NOTHING. AMERICA HAS BEEN REDUCED TO A SERVICE ECONOMY. SO BASICALLY THE COUNTRY IS NOT GIVING ANYONE ANYTHING. ALL IT DOES IS ACT AS THE MIDDLEMAN TO OPEC COUNTRIES. THE OPEC COUNTRIES HAVE BEEN MADE TO TRADE IN DOLLARS ( INSTILLED BY MILITARY MIGHT ) AND THEN COUNTRIES HAVE TO BUY DOLLARS FROM AMERICA TO PAY FOR OIL AND IN RETURN THEY GIVE AMERICA ALL THE EQUIVALENT GOODS THEY PRODUCE. AND THEN THE NATIONS GIVE THE DOLLARS TO OPEC WHO THEN RETURN IT TO AMERICA FOR INTEREST TREASURY BONDS. AND THIS IS HOW AMERICA GETS ITS GOODS AND HAS BEEN LIVING DELICIOUSLY ON EVERYONE AND ACCRUING DEBTS. ITS CALLED 'SPENDING OTHER PEOPLES MONEY'. NOW THE ONLY WAY THIS SYSTEM WORKS IS IF ALL OPEC PAY IN DOLLARS. IF ANY COUNTRY STEPS OUT OF LINE, THEY GET CLIPPED. SO IT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP ALL OPEC COUNTRIES IN LINE. THEY DONT HAVE TO KEEP CANADA AND NORWAY IN LINE. THEY ARE ALL THE SAME PEOPLE. THEY ARE OFFSHOOTS OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE AND WILL ALWAYS COMPLY. HOWEVER THE OTHER RACES LIKE LIBYA AND IRAQ WILL BE BLASTED IF THEY TRY TO GET OUT OF LINE. ANYWAY I AM DONE WITH YOU. YOU DONT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THE DYNAMICS OF WORLD ECONOMICS AND POLITICS

I forgot, you are the expert. I wouldn't drag this on either because it appears you know everything. By your theory, America is sanctioning Iran because Iran refuse to use dollars and not because they want Nuclear weapons to destroy another country. I rest my case.

obadiah777: http://whatreallyhappened.wikia.com/wiki/The_Petrodollar . WHAT YOU FAIL TO REALIZE IS THAT ANY OPEC COUNTRY THAT DECIDES NOT TO USE THE DOLLARS IS A ROGUE STATE THAT HAS TO BE DESTROYED APPARENTLY OR HAVE THEIR LEADERS KILLED FOR PUPPET LEADERS THAT WILL ACCEPT THE DOLLAR. HENCE THE DEMISE OF GHADDAFI AND SADDAM. IRAN IS ON THE HIT LIST NEXT BECAUSE AHMEDINEJAD DOES NOT WANT THE DOLLARS. YOU MUST TRADE IN DOLLARS IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO GET ACCUSED OF HAVING WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND THEN BEEN ELIMINATED. DOES THAT NOT SOUND LIKE 'FORCE' ? THE VALUE OF THE DOLLAR IS HINGED ON BEING USED AS THE OPEC EXCHANGE. THIS IS BECAUSE IN THE SEVENTIES DURING THE VIETNAM WAR, AMERICA PRINTED MORE MONEY THAN THE GOLD THEY HAD SO THAT ALL NATIONS DECIDED THAT THE DOLLAR WAS WORTHLESS AND THAT THEY DID NOT WANT IT. THEN NIXON COERCED OPEC TO USE THE DOLLAR AS THE SOURCE OF EXCHANGE.. THIS IS WHAT RESCUED THE DOLLAR. HOWEVER IT IS NOT BACKED BY GOLD. IT IS WORTHLESS. THIS IS WHY THE WAR MACHINE IS IN FULL GEAR AGAINST ANYONE WHO DOES NOT WANT TO USE THE DOLLAR. THIS IS THE BACKBONE OF THE AMERICAN ECONOMY. THIS IS HOW AMERICA CAN BE IN TRILLIONS OF DEBT. BECAUSE THOSE OPEC COUNTRIES THEN RETURN THE DOLLARS TO AMERICA FOR INTEREST TREASURIES AND THEN AMERICA SPREADS THE GOODS RECIEVED IN EXCHANGE FOR THE DOLLARS FROM THE NATIONS AND THE DOLLAR IT RECIEVES BACK, IT THEN RECYCLES THIS AMONGST ITS INDIGENES AND BASICALLY AMERICA IS LIVING OF THE REST OF THE WORLD BECAUSE OF THE PETRODOLLARS. THEY PRODUCE NOTHING. THEY ARE THE MIDDLE-MAN. THATS ALL THEY DO. THEY HAVE MOVED THEIR MANUFACTURING BASE ABROAD. SO FOR THEM TO KEEP ON LIVING DELICIOUSLY WHILE PRODUCING NOTHING, OPEC HAS TO SELL ITS OIL IN DOLLARS

There are so many oil producers out of opec my friend - Russia, the United States, China, Mexico, Canada, Norway, UK and Brazil. They are responsible for close to 60% of oil production. Again, no one forces anyone to trade in dollars. If Norway decides to buy oil from the UK and say I will pay in Euro, by your theory; they will be invaded. You said America produces NOTHING - Hmmmmmm. I will leave that for you to say again .

skak: @ Alexis

Is bible really a words of God? If yes, then why is there a variation between different versions of bibles. Bible versions shows that they are really not the same. Some leave out entire verses, others disagree on whether Jesus should be called God's servant or God's Son.

How do you decide which is completely correct And which is not
why there is insertion and deletion in words of God. And why is there a brackets/parenthesis in the words of God
Why is alweys a complict between king james version and New international version

For example, the followings have many variation, deletion and insertion between KING JAMES BIBLE NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION

Why did Jesus come to earth

Luke 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village. KJV

Luke 9:56 and they went to another village. NIV



Matt. 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. KJV

Matt. 18:11 (missing) NIV

Is repentance important

Matt. 9:13 ...I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. KJV

Matt. 9:13 ...I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners. NIV

For whom did Jesus die

I Cor. 5:7 ...Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: KJV

I Cor. 5:7 ...Christ, our Passover lamb, has been
sacrificed. NIV

In Whom must you believe to be saved

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that
believeth on me hath everlasting life. KJV

John 6:47 I tell you the truth, he who believes has
everlasting life. NIV

Was Joseph really the father of Jesus

Luke 2:33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him. KJV

Luke 2:33 The child's father and mother marveled at what was said about him. NIV

Did Jesus give His disciples power to heal

Mark 3:15 ...power to heal sickness, and to cast out devils. KJV

Mark 3:15 ...authority to drive out demons. NIV

If it's hard to do, should we just remove it

Mark 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your
trespasses. KJV

Mark 11:26 (missing) NIV

Who is in charge

I Cor. 10:28 ...for the earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof: KJV

I Cor. 10:28 (last part of verse missing) NIV

How must we deal with our enemies

Matt. 5:44 ...Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. KJV

Matt. 5:44 ...Love your enemies and pray for those
who persecute you. NIV

Where did Jesus go

John 16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father. KJV

John 16:16 In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me. NIV

This is what is referred to as a 'REAL CONTRADICTION'.

Wouldn't it be fair if you choose only one verse like I did from the Quran and we tackle it? Also, I asked you to verify a claim you made earlier reading it is the US government that is responsible for blowing up the twin towers as a cover up to invade the Middle East. I am still waiting for that answer?

proo212: The Imams and the worshippers did obviously not read the prophet's letter to the monks of St. Catherine Monastery

They deliberately ignore sources like this

skak: I thought of abandoning your question but i now think otherwise for the sake of those who have the ears of hearing and willings for understanding.

Before you talk about hadith, you must consider the chain through which the hadith passes or perceived as well as the dissertation consistence of the hadith before it become Authentic. Hadith is a narration of what prophet Muhammad said and it can be altered just like the one you brought. Nonetheless, if you want to know this hadith read the following.

Narrated Abu Dharr: The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Messenger know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun is quickly proceeding towards its destination. That is the designing of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing. " (36.38) (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Hadith 421) In a narration, again from Sayyidina Abu Dharr, there appear the additional words to the effect: “I asked the Prophet about the Statement of Allah: -- ‘And the sun is quickly proceeding towards its destination. That is the designing of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing ' (36.38) He said, ‘Its course is underneath "Allah's Throne.’" (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Hadith 327)

The following is the Analysis of the chains of narrators of the hadith in question:

From Abu Darr, it both ways i.e. with and without the words under consideration, it narrated by Yazid al-Taymi and from him by his son Ibrahim bin Yazid al-Taymi.
From Ibrahim it is narrated by six different narrators;

1- Al-A’mash: And from him at least five people narrate it. See Sahih Bukhari etc.

2- Yunus bin ‘Ubaid: And from him at least three narrators report this narration. See Sahih Muslim etc.

3- Musa bin al-Musayyab al-Thaqafi: From him it is narrated by Abdah bin Sulayman, See Al-‘Uzmah of Abu al-Shaykh al-Asbahani 4/1189

4- Abdul A’la al-Taymi: The narrator down from him is Mis’ar, See Hilyah al-Awliya 5/89
5- Harun bin Sa’d: Abdul Ghaffar bin al-Qasim narrates from him. See Al-‘Uzmah of Abu al-Shaykh al-Asbahani 4/1191 and Al-Tabarani’s Mu’jam Al-Awst, Hadith 4470

6- Al-Hakam bin ‘Utaybah: The sole narrator down from him is Sufyan bin Husain, See Sunan Abu Dawud, Musnad Ahmad, Mustadrak al-Hakim, Musnad al-Bazzar etc.

Of all these various routes from Ibrahim bin Yazid al-Taymi, it is only through Al-Hakam bin ‘Utaybah that these words “It sets in a spring of warm water” are narrated. In short, there are six narrators reporting the hadith from Ibrahim bin Yazid, and only one of them i.e. Al-Hakam bin ‘Utaybah quotes the particular words. And in addition, there is again only one narrator down from him and he is Sufyan bin Husain whereas parallel to Sufyan there are at least eleven people narrating the hadith without these words on the authority of five different people narrating from Ibrahim bin Yazid.

Against any question on this hadith, reaad the following explanation of the Hadith:

The Prostration of the Sun: A look into the phenomenon of the sun performing sajdah (prostration) beneath the ‘arsh (the Divine Throne) From these narrations of Hadith, we learn that mustaqar means a spatial destination, that is, a place where on orbit of the movement of the sun stands completed- and they also tell us that this place is beneath the ‘arsh (the Throne of Allah). Hence, the verse would mean that, everyday, the sun moves towards a particular destination, and once it has reached there, it performs prostration before Allah and seeks His permission for the next orbit. Once permission is given, it begins the next orbit.

The state of the ‘arsh of Allah (generally referred to as Divine Throne) as understood from the Qur’an and Sunnah is that it surrounds all that we know as the masses of the land and expanses of the sky. All these masses and expanses along with planets and stars, without any exceptions, are enclosed within the ‘arsh- and the ‘arsh of Allah holds the entire cosmic universe inside itself. If seen from this angle, the sun is, in all conditions and all the times, simply under the ‘arsh.

What, then, would be the sense of going beneath the ‘arsh after it sets?

It is common observation that the sun, after it sets at someplace, does rise elsewhere. Therefore, its rising and setting is an ongoing phenomenon.

what then is the meaning of going beneath the ‘arsh after setting and doing prostration?

From the apparent sense of the Hadith mentioned above, we learn that the sun, after having reached its destination (mustaqar), pauses within which it offers sajdah (prostration) before Allah and seeks the permission for the next orbit- although, there being no break in the movement of the sun at any time is an open observation. And since this rising and setting of the sun keeps taking place all the time in terms of different locations, therefore, this pause should also be there all the time as result of which sun should not have any movement any time.

Before you give any hadith you must provide the source and the chain through which the hadith was perceived.

I gave you the source of the Hadith - are you now saying the Hadith I quoted is wrong or you wouldn't use it because of the way it was presented. Here is the Hadith again:

Sunan Abu Dawud 3991—Abu Dharr said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water

THE COMMENTATORS - "THE GUYS THAT KNOW BETTER THAN ALLAH AND MOHAMMED"

The commentators were divided over the actual meaning of Surah 18:86 due to variations in the readings of certain Muslim transcribers. Some versions of the Quran state that the sun goes down into murky waters, while other versions read warm in place of murky. The variant readings provide further evidence that the Quran was not transmitted perfectly, without any variants or corruptions, dispelling the Muslim claims to the contrary.

Apart from the issue of variant readings, it is somewhat amusing to see how Muslims busied themselves over the question whether the sun set in a muddy spring or a warm one.

This discussion is, in fact, further evidence that the author of the Quran (or at least Muhammad and his companions) literally believed that the sun actually set in either a warm or muddy spring. After all, why would they have been concerned whether the text read muddy or warm if the verse was only conveying the thought that the sun seemed to be setting to Zul-Qarnain? In other words, it is completely irrelevant whether the spring which Zul-Qarnain saw the sun descending into was either muddy or warm, since this was supposed to be merely an appearance and not a reality since the sun doesn’t set anywhere.

Furthermore, as one reads the commentaries, one will find the commentators going out of their way to deny that the Quran literally teaches that the sun sets in a spring.

Tafsir Ibn Abbas

(Till, when he reached the setting place of the sun) where the sun sets, (he found it setting in a muddy spring) a blackened, muddy and stinking spring; it is also said that this means: a hot spring, (and found a people thereabout) these people were disbelievers: (We said: O Dhu'l-Qarnayn!) We inspired him (Either punish) either kill them until they accept to believe that there is no deity except Allah (or show them kindness) or you pardon them and let them be. (Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn 'Abbâs, commentary on Sura 18:86; online source; bold emphasis ours)

Ibn Kathir

Allah’s saying, "Until, when he reached the setting of the sun," means that Zul-Qarnain traveled on a path until he reached the furthest point West that a person can reach on earth, which is the western part of earth. As for reaching the place of the setting of the sun from the sky it is doubtful what the storytellers say that he (Zul-Qarnain) traveled the earth for a time while the sun was setting behind him. There is no truth in this and most of these myths are the invention of the People of the Book and their differing heretics who lie.

Allah’s saying, "He found it set in a spring of murky water," means that Zul-Qarnain saw the sun from his point of view descend into the ocean, which is the case of anyone who comes to the seashore and sees the sun as though it is descending in it, when in fact it does not actually leave the fourth orbit that it is fixed to.

The word "Hamiya" is derived from one of two pronunciations coming from the word "Hama’a" which is clay as Allah says, "I am creating people out of dirt and compact clay" إِنِّي خَالِق بَشَرًا مِنْ صَلْصَال مِنْ حَمَإٍ مَسْنُون which is smooth clay as has previously been shown. Ibn Jarir stated that it was narrated by Yunus, narrated by Ibn Wahb, narrated by Nafi’ Ibn Abu Na’im who heard Abdel Rahim Al’Araj say that Ibn Abbas used to speak about the muddy well and would pronounce the word as "Hama’a."

Nafi’ stated that Kab Al Ahbar was asked about it and he replied saying, "You are more learned in the Quran than I am, but I find it (the sun) in the Book (Torah) descending in black mud." It was similarly narrated by Ibn Abbas and Mujahid from others. Abu Dawud Al Tayalisi stated that it was narrated by Muhammad Ibn Dinar, narrated by Sa’ad Ibn Aws, Narrated by Misda’, narrated by Ibn Abbas, narrated by Abu Ibn Kab that the prophet –peace be upon him- made him read it as "Hami’a." Also, Ali Ibn Abu Talha narrated from Ibn Abbas that the sun DESCENDS in a "Hamiya" well, meaning warm water well. The same was also narrated by Al-Hassan Al Basri.

Ibn Jarir stated that the truth is that both pronunciations are correct and no matter which way a person may read it then, he is correct. I said that there is no contradiction between the two meanings, for it may be that the water in the well is warm because it faces the heat of the setting sun with no protection from its rays. The word "Hami’a" meaning water mixed with black clay is also possible as was narrated by Kab Al Ahbar and others. It was narrated by Jarir, narrated by Muhammad Ibn Al Mathny, narrated by Yazid Ibn Harun, narrated by Al-Awam, narrated by a servant of Abdullah Ibn Umar, narrated by Abdullah who stated that the prophet – peace be upon him – watched the sun while it was setting and said, "In Allah’s hot fire. If it wasn’t for Allah’s command, the sun would burn all those who are on earth." I said this was also narrated by imam Ahmad from Yazid Ibn Harun who elevated this hadith. It may be that this is the saying of Abdullah Ibn Umar and his companions whom he found during the battle of Yarmuk, and Allah knows best.

Ibn Abu Hatim stated that it was narrated by Hajjaj Ibn Hamza, narrated by Muhammad Ya’ny Ibn Bashir, narrated by Umar Ibn Maymun, narrated by Hadir Ibn Abbas who related that Mu’awiya Ibn Abu Sufyan read the verse in Surah of the Cave (Surah 18:86), "He found it set in a spring of murky water," and was told by Ibn Abbas that it was read and pronounced as "Hami’a." Mu’awiya then asked Abdullah Ibn Umar how he read it and was told, "We read it as you read it." Ibn Abbas told Mu’awiya, "That the Quranic verse was revealed in my house, so send for Kab Al-Ahbar." Ibn Abbas then asked Kab, "Where do you find the sun setting in the Torah?" He responded, "Ask the Arabian people for they are more learned about it. As for me, I find the sun setting in the Torah in water and mud," he then pointed towards the west.

Ibn Hadir stated to Ibn Abbas, "Had I been present earlier with you I would have informed you of something to enlighten you regarding the issue of what the warm well is." Ibn Abbas replied, "And what would that be?" He said, "Regarding what was mentioned of Zul-Qarnain following a path with knowledge, he traveled the earth both east and west seeking the reasons, being a command given by a wise guide. He then saw the sun at dusk DESCENDING IN A WELL that was ‘Khulb’ and ‘Thatin’ and ‘Harmad.’" Ibn Abbas asked, "What is Khulb?" He replied, "It is mud in their language." Ibn Abbas asked, "And what is Thatin?" He replied, "It is warmth." He was asked, "And what about Harmad?" He replied, "It means black." Ibn Abbas then asked for a male or a youth to be brought to him and said, "Write down what this man says."

Sa’id Ibn Jubair narrated that Ibn Abbas was reading Surah of the Cave (Surah 18:86) and read the verse, "He found it set in a spring of murky water (Hama’a)." Then Kab said, "I swear by Him who holds Kab’s soul in His hand, I have not heard anyone recite it the way it is revealed in the Torah other than Ibn Abbas. For we find it in the Torah descending in a black clod of mud."


Al-Jalalayn

"Until he reached the place of the setting of the sun,"- meaning WHERE THE SUN GOES DOWN.

"He found it set in a spring of murky water (Hama’a)"- Hama’a means a black mud and the sun’s setting in the spring is from the eye’s point of view, for the sun is larger than the earth. Zul-Qarnain found a tribe living around this spring, who were unbelievers

Al-Tabari

The meaning of the Almighty’s saying, "Until he reached the place of the setting of the sun he found it set in a spring of murky water," is as follows:

When the Almighty says, "Until he reached," He is addressing Zul-Qarnain. Concerning the verse, "the place of the setting of the sun he found it set in a spring of murky water," the people differed on how to pronounce that verse. Some of the people of Madina and Basra read it as "Hami’a spring," meaning that the sun SETS IN A SPRING that contains mud. While a group of the people of Medina and the majority of the people of Kufa read it as, "Hamiya spring" meaning that the sun SETS IN A SPRING of warm water. The people of commentary have differed on the meaning of this depending on the way they read the verse


I wonder why Allah would write a book in heaven before the creation of the universe (A perfect Book) not make this verse clear enough for numerous Islamic scholars to interpret it differently? Imagine President Obama saying "I WILL ATTACK ALL MUSLIMS". Then everyone says - Mr. president, why in the world will you say something like that? Then he replies, Oh - "I meant I will attack Islamic militants in paskistan that are targeting and killing americans and attacking America". In this example, if he had explained initially what he meant, we wouldn't have asked him what he meant initially.

That is the same approach the author of the Quran takes - We are also asking what he meant. Then you and MANY muslims rush to the aid of the author of the Quran to save him. As if he couldn't do it the 1st time. That is beside the point.

I don't know why we need so many different commentaries to clarify one verse in the Quran. However, we are no ignorant to all these and since you think you can confuse us by copying and pasting text all over the place - it fall short of the truth.

tintingz:

1. How old was Mary when she got married to Joseph the carpenter?

2. Why didnt the people at Mohammed(sa) and Joseph complained about marrying young girls?


3. What was the culture of the arabs and jews marrying young girls?

4. In africa do our forefathers marry young girls or not?

5. How do you think the growth of an 11 year old will be in old time if a man could live up to 150 yr old and still walk like a 60 yr old man?

6. And what matured age was written for a girl to marry in the bible or in any law...atleast Quran still point out when...and if 15 could change to 18 as the matured age today what will be the matured age in the future future?

Answer all this and let move on

Typical Islamic defense of comparing apples and oranges. It shows that you justify such actions in the Quran. However, I will entertain you and answer your questions

1. Mary sure wasn't 6 years old and she wasn't 9 when she got married. Your prophet in all his wisdom saw it proper to marry a 6 year old child and had SEX with her when she was 9 years old. That makes me sick in my stomach. The question you should ask is will you tintingz allow your 6 year old daughter to be married to a 50 year old man? As if that is not enough, Ayatollah Khomeini, one of the most famous Islamic clerics of the twentieth century took it even further by confirming that you can marry infants. Yet, you as a human-being, for religious reasons come on a public forum to support such actions. If your prophet and cleric lived in my county, they are by law required to knock on every door and introduce them-selves as Pedophiles/Child Molestors so parents would guide their kids and make sure they don't go near such people. Again, it is insulting to human nature for you to justify such actions.

2. Again, apples and oranges. Since you knew the age of Mary, please tell us. However, I can tell you this much and AUTHORITATIVELY - she wasn't 6 or 9 or even an infant. So, in your desperate attempt to compare the two, please don't shoot yourself in the foot.

3. Throw light on the culture of the Jews for us. I think we already know the Islamic stand on this practice even though all arabs are not muslims. For you to be honest and call the act for what it is, you want to defend your prophet SOOOOOO BAD.

4. Maybe your fore-father did. My fore-fathers never married any 6 year olds or 9 year olds. Again, trying to justify a disgusting act. Listen, do you think if this happened in Christaindom I will defend it - NEVER! I will call it out for what it is. But you are SOOOOO BLINDED by religious affiliations that calling it out for what it is will make you a BAD muslim. You are SOOO dis-honest tintingz

5. How do you think the growth of an 11 year old will be in old time if a man could live up to 150 yr old and still walk like a 60 yr old man - Ah, you were there abi. Let us no deal with 11 year olds. Let us talk about 6 and 9 year olds. Basically, you are endorsing sex between a 9 year old girl (A Child) and a 150 year old man. Your only argument is that their growth would have made them more mature because of old times - do you see there is no scientific and moral justification to your line of reasoning. You are basically saying, I am educated, schooled and smart but when it comes to the Quran, I will drop all that I know and pretend to play stupid. You are making me laugh but in my heart, I am praying for you.

6. Again, you go on justifying your point. You are the Bible expert, you tell me. However, I will state this clearly - it is not recorded anywhere in the Bible, where Jesus married a 6 year old or a 9 year old and consummated/had sex with those young girls. Your prophet did and instead for you to call it for what it is - you are resolved to defend him blindly by ignoring all factual evidence. As if that is not enough, your cleric Ayatollah Khomeini said it's alright for a man to marry an infant - O Boy - does that sound normal to you?

I challenge you with this question - Would you give you infant baby to such cleric (Ayatollah Khomeini) as a wife knowing he might be touching and molesting your baby girl? Or would you give or 6 year old daughter to him as well. If you answer me honestly, I might just build you a mosque in front of my house

obadiah777: ANOTHER PERSON WHO HAS NO IDEA OF HOW THE WORLD WORKS *SIGH* . THE ONLY REASON IT IS WORTH MORE THAN THE NAIRA IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE COERCED THE OPEC COUNTRIES TO ONLY SELL THEIR OIL IN DOLLARS. THATS THE ONLY THING KEEPING THAT TOILET PAPER CALLED THE DOLLAR UP. THIS IS WHY SADAM AND GHADDAFI GOT KILLED. THEY TRY TO EXPOSE THE TRUE VALUE OF THE DOLLAR BY DECIDING NOT TO ACCEPT THE DOLLAR FOR THEIR OIL. THE DOLLAR IS ONLY VALUABLE SO LONG AS AMERICA CAN BULLY OPEC TO ONLY SELL OIL IN DOLLARS WITHOUT WHICH THE DOLLAR WILL COLLAPSE

No one forces anyone to trade in dollars, I do agree with you that the dollar is the global exchange currency. You can decide to trade in Gold bars, exchange of goods if you want. Venezuela isn't a member of OPEC yet it's not as wealthy or economically strong as the US. What you fail to realize is that economic power is tied to military power; it goes hand in hand.

tintingz: LOL! do you know that the Jews disagree that Jesus was a lineage to King David? Just know that hun?

Thanks for letting us know tintingz. On another topic - Did you know that 50-80 year old muslim men in Islam marry girls under age 10?

Islam teaches that a girl enters adulthood at the beginning of puberty (as if the onset of puberty equals maturity!), and thus becomes ready for marriage. The Islamic source materials state that prophet Mohammed (who allowed men four wives but authorized himself eleven) proposed marriage to Aisha when she was six. He assumed her silence constituted her consent. Some two to three years later, he consummated his marriage with her. He was fifty-four and she was nine. Allah, conveniently so, inspired him with verses that excuse and promote this practice. After him, numerous Muslim scholars, Sheikhs and muftis also promoted it. It is enough as an example of such abominable support to cite the horrifying words of Ayatollah Khomeini, one of the most famous Islamic clerics of the twentieth century, taken from his book Tahreer Al Wasila:

"A man is not to have sexual intercourse with his wife before she is nine years old, whether regularly or occasionally, but he can have sexual pleasure from her, whether by touching or holding her, or rubbing against her, even if she is as young as an infant. However, had he penetrated her without deflowering her, then he holds no responsibility towards her. But if a man penetrates and deflowers the infant (...), then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life."

I wanted to leave a good night piece for our readers. Here is a video of a "Respected" Islamic Scholar saying BEATING THE HELL out of your wife is darn right alright.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO0UaBG1Bsg

skak: You are not communicating as coherently, as we would expect this new breed of "chosen" cyberspace combatant, to articulate their apoplectic anger, and you are now also making further fallacious allegations about Islam while others of your kind are having tacitly agreed with an article posted on his Page.

Do you and your class of Falsehoods Flag Religion/apologetic not have any shame, at all...? What aberrant form of chromosomes, comprise your DNA, are you possibly some bizarre species of Icke-postulated, Shape-shifting, reptilian reprobate. is quite wicked of you however, I'm old Soul, whose well-nourished complexion, is resolutely irresistant to all manner of insult. For avoidance of doubt,you have proved yourself as a primitive man in trying to overwhelmed your shortcomings as a christian by portraying lies towards Islamic phenomenon, which as a result, gave a big punch to your fellow christians. All your posts, convey a propensity to smear and slander, any christian who has the temerity, to question, query, and protest about the topic in question. I know you dont read ( i would have give you a reference books like EVOLUTION: A THEORY IN CRISIS written by an American Molecular Biologist or ATLAS of creation by Haroon Yahya for you to unfold the truth with your own hand. I'm so kind and polite to you becouse we know today but we dont know tomorrow. And who knows if tomorrow you will be an ambassador of Islam to his own people. Many of your people had fight strongly against Islam but end up a MUSLIMS.

Oga skak - I am still waiting for your reply oh. You said you were going to ask me a question, it hasn't come yet. So, by the prophet account, we are to believe that the sun sets in a stream of water. Here is the Hadith again:

Sunan Abu Dawud 3991—Abu Dharr said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water

These are the prophets words and not mine, yours or Dr. Zaik. He received all the revelations in the Quran and he clearly stated that the sun sets in a spring of warm water. I find it hard to think that the Sun which is is over 1.3 million times bigger than the earth could fit in a spring of warm water. Yet prophet Mohammed said it could. Don't accuse me of quoting out of context oh. These words were not mine oh. Go and look them up in your Quran.

I am still waiting for your question. Because I have a couple for you.

obadiah777: YEAH SHOWS HOW MUCH YOU KNOW ABOUT ECONOMICS. THEY HAVE SHIPPED ALL THEIR MANUFACTURING BASE TO CHINA. THEY DONT PRODUCE ANYTHING ANYMORE

Yet their Dollar is 160 times greater than your naira . They know how to provide electricity, running water and roads for their citizens

plappville: He did not answer a thing, the fault is grave, none can defend it.

I didn't want to drag this one. I totally understand you. I have asked skak a question about the sun setting and I have several questions about the violence perpetuated in name of Islam. I want to engage in an honest dialog with our Muslims friends.

tintingz: @Hallie...thanx it left for them know more about the Quran with open mind...

And i think i will follow skak advice cuz this christians are not ready to get explanation instead to insult...

alexis you still doubt about Mary being blood line to Aaron? Kindly give your prove that Mary Mother of Jesus those not have any blood line with Aaron?

I think you answered it. Thanks

tintingz: it seems you guys dont wanna knowledge yourselvs bout Islam and Quran...

Noble Verse 19:27-28 "At length she brought The (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: 'O Mary ! Truly an amazingthing Hast thou brought ! O sister of Aaron ! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!'"

Let us look at what Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said regarding this Noble Verse:
Mughira b. Shu'ba reported:
"When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me: You read "O sister of Harun (Aaron)" (i. e. Mary) in the Qur'an, whereas Moses was born much before Jesus. When I came back to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) I asked him about that, whereupon he said: The (people of the old age) used to give names (to their persons) after thenames of Apostles and pious persons who had gone before them. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book on General Behaviour (Kitab Al-Adab), Book 025, Number 5326) "

As we clearly see from the Saying (Hadith) of our beloved Prophet, this issue was brought to him before and he clearly responded to it. The false claim made against our Prophet about him meaning that Mary was a biological sister of Aaron is clearlyrefuted.
The People of Isreal used to call people by either their last names, or by adding words such as you"Son of..." or "Brother of...." or"Sister of...." When they called people "O Son of...." they didn't mean for that person to be the actual biological son of the person whom they used his name. The other person could be a simply in the family tree or alast name

When Jesus was called "Jesus the son of David" for instance, the Jews didn't mean to call Jesus the actual biological son of David. Similarily, when they called Mary"O sister of Aaron", they meant to call her sister of Aaron in faith!. Not the actual biological sister of Aaron

I think he did well and answered the question honestly and it has clarified what the passage meant. However, your comparison is totally different. Jesus the son of David means Jesus is from the lineage of David and YES!, Jesus blood-line can be traced to King David. Mary (the mother of Jesus is not in the lineage of Aaron). I will not drag this further but will accept your explanation. Again, thanks for your explanation

My responses are in blue:

skak - You had already been out of content becouse you justify islam as a violence religion but without citing any verse from Qur'an or Hadith to back your claim.

If it's verses you want, I can supply them, alot of them but when I do, you will claim that I am quoting it out of context. Let us leave the violence for another thread. However, if you insist on it. I will provide several verses for you.

The question you are asked is very simple to answer becouse it was already been answered by many islamic scholars like Dr. zakir Naik, Moh'd Ahmed Auwal et al long time ago but i denied to answer it becouse you violated the rule of any debate becouse you are not ready to accept my question. And yet, you automatically turned the debate into argument that is why i dont border my self to ask the question becouse it will be an insult to my religion since you are not ready to see reasons and beside even the pastor of your church will not answer the question. Anyway, you are not exception, you hear but you don't understand. (Summum bukhmum umyun... )

Dr Zakir Naik answered the question about the sun setting in the same way you did. I listened his response (Surprised!). However, does the Dr more knowledgeable than the prophet himself? Why do we need Dr. Zakir to interpret it for us when the prophet himself did that already. Remember what I told you 1. I come across a verse and it raises questions, so I ask you to clarify 2. You (And Doctor Zakir)clarify by re-interpreting the verse saying it meant something else. 3. I said okay, let us confirm what the prophet said about the verse and the prophet proved both of you wrong. So now, who is not understanding what is happening here.

You are right, I wasn't patient enough for you to ask your question. Your lack of timely response in asking your question made me think you didn't want to ask. So, that is my bad and I apologize. You can go ahead and ask your question.

Give me 1 good reason that makes Islam a violence religion and i'll give you hundreds of reason that makes christians more violence. You never hear or see a muslim insulting other's religion but you cristians are alweys insulting prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h) and tiering Qur'an in the street. is this not a violence? If you are following this comments very carefull you must have read one of your fellow christian insulting prophet Moh'd in this forum. Beside, all the accusation, blackmail and islamophobia against Muslims, Islam has a vast majority of followers above other religious of the world, same to Nigeria. And still people are prequently converting to Islam and you will bear me witness on this becouse more and more of your people including pastors and traditional leaders are converting. Even a fool can understand that this religion is the righteous and its being protected by God not by muslims.

Do you think I support anyone burning or desecrating the Quran or insulting the prophet. If a Christian does it - He/She is reacting to the violence committed by "some" muslims. Does that mean it is right to burn someone elses holy book or insult their , NO!. Your claim is that Christians are more violent and to prove that you say they burn the Quran. So your definition of violence is burning of the Quran. Again, it is unchristian for anyone to burn the Quran and I don't support it. However, to term that violence means you have a hard time understanding what the WORD VIOLENCE mean. If you had said, it was a disrespect, a provocation - then it makes sense but so say burning of the Quran is violent, is not nearly accurate. Do you hear of Christians after they attend church on sundays go to Mosques, round up innocent muslims and slit their throats, while they are doing that - they are shouting Jehovah/God is great? Have you heard of christians driving into mosques on fridays when muslims are praying and blow up the place? I can answer that for you NO!. So, define violence for what it is - Behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something. That is what your muslim brothers in the north are doing to christians, that is violence. Stop insulting our intelligence and stop playing pretend.

If you are wise enough you would have understand that propaganda and lies about islam by mainstream medias which declared some muslim as terrorists is a result of western conspiracy to downgrade and eliminate islam from existance. A good example was the inside job of 9-11 by US government and the destabilisation of the middle east. So allow your self to see reasons beyond a mere looking.

So you are saying that 911 was a scheme by the US government and not an actual attack? Your response will determine who I am talking to

About your bible, this is not the true representative of the original bible brought along with Jesus becouse it was not revealed in English. Some worlds can never be replaced with other language even in same language no two words are synonymous simple example is want and need. So also, revealation books are high level language. I know you will say Qur'an is translated also but we never stick to translation we referred to the Arabic text in any complication. You christians are only looking at the translation of the holy Qur'an, you cant just read the translation and think that you understand the meaning you must seek explanation. So you know nothing about Qur'an as well as Bible. So put your mouth shot.

Now you are becoming vulgar. I honestly thought we could research these issues together but it is evident that I was mistaken. You are right, I know nothing of the Quran. I only know the teachings of the Quran are evident from Pakistan to Northern Nigeria and it's evident in the murder of innocent people that don't share the same belief as muslims.

plappville: You are so funny are a pretending liar if i may say! Haven't you seen multiple contradictions in the Quran? just a short example: Mary, Sister of Aaron and daughter of Amram

If your honestly check Several Suras, you will see that the Qur'an confuses Mary the mother of Jesus [Miriam in Hebrew] with Miriam the sister of Aaron and Moses, and daughter of Amram which is about 1400 years off. Muhammed writes:

At length she brought (the babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms), They said: "O Mary! Truly a strange thing has thou brought! "O sister of Aaron, thy father was not a man of evil, nor your mother a woman unchaste!"
-- Sura 19:27-28

Where on earth Was Jesus born during the time of Moses first class contradictions...

Behold! wife of `Imran said: "O my Lord! I do dedicate unto Thee what is in my womb for Thy special service ... When she was delivered, she said: "O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child!" ... "... I have named her Mary ..."
-- Sura 3:35-36

Perhaps tintingz can interpret these verses for us without claiming we are quoting out of context. Yet you claim that the Quran was in Heaven before the foundation of the world and the author of the Quran couldn't distinguish between Mary the mother of Jesus and Mary Aaron's sister.

tintingz - This is an open challenge, please interpret this verse from the Quran for us

Toktee: Sharrrap,do you thnk the people fighting in congo are terrorist,or the one that fought in angola were terrorist with rags on their head?

The ones fighting in Congo and the ones that fought in Angola, did they claim any religious affiliation? The long and brutal civil war in Liberia with many rebel groups, did anyone said they were fighting for Allah and wanted to impose their religion down other people throat?

kaze4blues: Useless west....


Na only africa dem fit handle anyhow



Anyway....6th to comment

Did you read that it was the Malian government that asked for their support

plappville: Did i just read the bolded? Well, you are only displaying your prophets way of living. He exchanged black for an animal.
BTW, are you Arab or White? if i am a black a...ss, and you hapens to be black, then you insult yourself.
I did not embrace the Arabian three godess called allah. you did.... Blacks Calling Themselves Muslims Should Be Ashamed of themselves...
Malians are under the Islamic slavering right now. allah, created LAWS allowing Muslims to own and rape their slaves.

Mahran, one of Muhammad’s black slave, was made him to carry the belongings of Muhammad and his companions while on a journey through the burning desert as Muhammad said: "Carry them, for you are a ship." Thereafter, he became known by that surname, Safina ('ship'). Relating this own story, Mahran said:

"The apostle of God and his companions went on a trip. (When) their belongings became too heavy for them to carry, Muhammad told me, 'Spread your garment.' They filled it with their belongings, then they put it on me. The apostle of God told me, 'Carry (it), for you are a ship.' Even if I was carrying the load of six or seven donkeys while we were on a journey, anyone who felt weak would throw his clothes or his shield or his sword on me so I would carry that, a heavy load. The prophet told me, 'You are a ship"' (refer to Ibn Qayyim, p. 115–116; al-Hulya, Vol. 1, p. 369, quoted from Ahmad 5:222).

Islamic 'Black Slave' Trade you should know if you do not know. History has alot to tell you about this Arabian Prophet.
Almost all Blacks living in U.S. today can trace their roots back to a slave ancestor.
The awful truth is that Arabs ravaged Africa for nearly a millennium engaging in enslavement of Africans on a grand scale before the Europeans began exporting black slaves. In fact, the Arabic word for 'black' ("abed" is also the same word for 'slave'. This is because, the black Africans became synonymous with slaves to Arabs. Over 120 million black Africans were killed by Muslim in one of the greatest holocausts in history. Some 75% of slaves perished on their way to markets thousands of miles. To ensure that black men could not have children Muslims castrated them; many died in this barbaric cruelty. This is the reason there are no Blacks in the Middle East.
Slavery is a divine institution in Islam, enshrined in the Koran and unchangeable for all time. To admit that slavery is a mistake is to admit the fallibility of the Koran and bring its divine origin into question.

Mohammed referred to Blacks as "raisin heads". (Sahih al-Bukhari vol. 1, no. 662 and vol. 9, no. 256).

In another Hadith, Mohammed is quoted as saying that Blacks are, "pug-nosed slaves". (Sahih Moslem vol. 9, p. 46-47).

This one is funny..Angel now make fun of God's image.....

Ishaq:243 “I heard the Apostle say: ‘Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!’ He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks…. Allah sent down concerning him: ‘To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom.” [9:61] “Gabriel came to Muhammad and said, ‘If a black man comes to you his heart is more gross than a donkey’s.’”

You want more?? you all Arabian slaves dieing for a false religion fabricated by Muhammed.

I appreciate your post. A common muslim propaganda is to claim Islam is a black man religion and Christianity is a white mans religion.

tintingz: ^^i like the way you reply...buh you still argue for arguement sake on dsame topic...this is my second time of telling you

You are confusing a conversation with an argument tintingz. I have BACKED UP everything I said from the Quran and Hadith. Your answer is that I am arguing. If you can respond to my latest post using the Quran and Hadith (Again, these are the authoritative texts on Islam and not a website, plz no websites), we can constructively move forward. Your attitude of "Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up" doesn't prove anything.

Again, my response is from the Hadith, your Hadith. I didn't make it up; if I did, please clarify for everyone but don't play pretend and side step the facts presented. Again, I quoted the prophet HIMSELF and no one else. I didn't claim it was Osama that said it or some Islamic religious leader from Saudi Arabia.

skak: You don't have a fact that will support your post. And the must bloody and dirty person ever recorded in a history of mankind was a Xristian. This will show you how violence you christians and your bible have been for so long. Your Bible is fake ask me i'll tell you how.

But for islam, all authentic scientific theories of yesterday & today have attested to the truth of Islam. The most ambitious scientific research of all times; THE HUMAN GENOME PROJECT is not left behind in comfirming the truth of Islam & sayings of Prophet Muhammad.

OUR NOBLE PROPHET {MUHAMMAD (S.A.W)}, who‘s believed to b the most outstandingly GREATEST PERSON to hv eva live on this planet, as RE-AFFIRMED by all notabl historians lyk George Bernad Show, Thomas Calyle, Ghandi, etc. Abov all, Established Science of today hs also comfirm the AUTHENTICITY of the holy QUR‘AN due to its CONSISTENCY.

Please get a medic to correlate for you "Telomeres" & "Atrophy" & relate it to the
death of the cloned ship, dolly, that earned Ian Wilmut his Nobel Award in Physiology/Medicin.

skak - You appear to be a reasonable guy so I will entertain you but if you go outside the Hadith and Quran, there are no basis for your statements and claims. If you read all my posts, I never referred to any source outside the Quran, Hadith and Bible. Why? Because they are the only authoritative sources for the topic we are discussing. I brought up the topic about Alexander the great been described in the Quran as seeing the sun set in a muddy water. You were kind enough and explained it to me that it wasn't the case but only a reflection. So, you explained the Surah and I appreciate that.

Now, I brought the Hadith (Which is an AUTHORITATIVE SOURCE that gives us the true interpretation of aspects of the Quran), in this case even Mohammed interpretation. Do you know more than the prophet knew? Are you more versed in the Quran than he was? It is safe to say NO. What was your response - you claimed that there are no contradictions and errors in the Quran. However, you didn't answer the 2nd part of my question. The Quran claimed to be perfect and was in Heaven even before the creation of the world (even the Bible that was revealed and written before the Quran never made such a claim) yet it couldn't communicate to us clearly what it meant by a sun setting. So, it needed you (skak) to EXPLAINED it to me (which you did by the way). So, look at what is happening:

1. I come across a section of the Quran that says the sun sets in muddy water when you travel so far west-wards. (Scientific and Factual Error)
2. You - zkak (A muslim) comes and re-interprets it for me saying no Allah didn't mean that; he meant it was a reflection. The Quran makes a claim that it is clear and anyone can understand it but you had to explain it for me. Apparently, the author in this section of the Quran isn't a good communicator
3. To be sure, we go back to another authoritative source for the real interpretation. The Hadith shows how the prophet Mohammed interpreted the same Surahs. So, this wasn't the author in the Quran, or you, or me, or Alexander the great but the prophet himself asked one of his companions where does the sun set? His companion said, By Allah, only you the holy prophet knows. Then the prophet Mohammed said and I quote "It sets in a spring of warm water".

I don't think you understand what this means - you can play pretend and ignore it and accuse me of not understanding it but again - I have gone no where other than the Quran and the Hadith so you can't accuse me of arguing blindly or been bias.

I told you, for me - the contradictions don't matter but the incitement to VIOLENCE in Islam is the issue. Violence is not a monopoly for only a certain group of people. However, when you kill in the name of Allah without been attacked, then we have to understand what is happening. If you tell me it's only extremist that does it - I will tell you that you have a WHOLE LOT of extremist in the Muslim world and you should teach them the Quran about peace and not Christians.

Does that mean Christians are perfect and without issue - NO!. I have always told you, let the life of Jesus the Christ and Mohammed the prophet be our only example.

skak: you see, i allow you to ask question about Islam becouse i knew Qur'an has enough facts, reasons, proves and solutions to any problems. Beside, no single verse in Qur'an that contradict itself except those who doen't understand it. So never doubt the authenticity of Qur'an and Islam.

skak - You can't make such a claim my friend. Historically, there are contradiction in the Quran, factual and scientific errors and mis-interpretations. Now, I am not really concerned about that. What bothers me most, is the Quran stance on violence. You can claim that Islam is peaceful but you can't deny that violence is a BIG problem in Islam. It was evident during Mohammed's time and very much in our generation. So, saying there is no contradiction is like shooting yourself in the foot. Let us be objective, we are not in a competition about who is right and wrong, we are dealing with facts, records and historical conclusions.

skak: LOL! Is either you are afraid or you are bias. I also promise to answer your question once you answer mine

Afraid of what? - Go ahead

skak: you cannot ask more question unless you answer mine.
I have a lot to ask you about your bible but i'll ask one at a time then i'll answer your question before i goto another question. Ok?

LOL. My question is still related to the 1st one I asked, it's not another question. I promise, once you answer me, you can throw me your question and we can discuss.

tintingz: ^ dude...do you read through the link i gave you to read? Or kindly answer to the bible scriptures i quoted out

You just wanna argue for arguement sake

Take a detailed approach and explain to me from the Quran and Hadith. I quoted those only and nothing else. If I wanted to argue, I wouldn't even entertain you. So, let us reason together in the framework of the holy texts we have and nothing else.

tintingz: ^ dude...do you read through the link i gave you to read? Or kindly answer to the bible scriptures i quoted out

You just wanna argue for arguement sake

skak and I have explained things to each other. I never referred him to any link. He has so far answered my questions except the last one. Now, all I am asking you to do is the same. Again, I quoted the Hadith and asked him to explain. So far, he is cordial and straight-forward. I suggest you do the same. So, can you throw light on what Mohammed meant by that Hadith?

skak: let me ask u this; how would you describe it when you stand in front of an ocean during a sun set? you'll see like the sun is falling inside water. Isn't it? So alexander is not an exception. This verse is telling us what alexander experiences on his journey, he saw the sun falling (in a distance view) into a muddy water becouse he is a human being like you... If you want to know what Qur'an says about sun rise and set just ask i'll tell you becouse Qur'an has said much about this world which now scientist are wasting time to prove.
Do you get it

I also have a question for you

I know what a sunset is and I am sure Alexander the great have seen sun-sets several times. So, let us say it was an optical illusion and it was indeed a reflection as you say it was. You explanation makes perfect sense because the sun can't physically set in a pool. So far, this is your stand and I believe your interpretation and belief on what the Quran meant.

Now, let us look at what the prophet said when he was asked the very SAME question. Remember, this is the prophet himself answering the question when he was asked by one of his companion. Please don't say I am taking it out of context, please explain to me what the prophet meant.

Sunan Abu Dawud 3991—Abu Dharr said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water

So, accordingly to the prophet Mohammed there is a place the pool sets. Can you tell me where? Now remember, you clarified and said it was a reflection and your explanation shows that scientifically and factually, it can't be otherwise. The above Hadith says otherwise - it literally says the holy prophet confirmed the SUN SITS IN A POOL OF WATER.

Oya, I give you the floor, please help me understand

tintingz: your answer is in this link

http://www.kalemasawaa.com/vb/t20405.html

Buh in the link read some bible scriptures like what you quote out from the Quran

"Are they not on the other side Jordan, by the way where the sun goeth down, in the land of the Canaanites, which dwell in the champaign over against Gilgal, beside the plains of Moreh?"
(Deuteronomy 11:30)

As we all know there is no way where the sun goes down because the sun is over billion times greater than earth . etc.. while if the meaning is that it is the way where it appears to people that sun goes down in, the objection willbe solved. But certainly they accept such explanations for their Scripture, not for ours! Moreover, the verse is very clumsy as one of our Arab brothers notes ,
The text as you see is extremely clumsy as if he describes the address for a lost person: Where-the-sun-goeth-down St., Canaanites' City,leave the first plain of Moreh, right against Gilgal!
Let's move on to another verse,

"The sun shall not smite thee by day, nor the moon by night."
(Psalms 121:6)

We quite understand what is meant by the sun smiting someone, but what is meant by moon smiting?! Isthere anything known - for example- as moon stroke?! Perhaps we should know!
Our last biblical quotation is this,

"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed withthe sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars." (Revelation 12:1)

How can a woman be clothed with the sun which is over billion times greaterthan earth?!! This is indeed mythical!
Now, we leave the Bible to discuss the objection of the missionaries.

Stop quoting all over the place, remember - stick to the question. skak was direct in his response and I appreciate his answer, I followed up so he can clarify.

skak: let me ask u this; how would you describe it when you stand in front of an ocean during a sun set? you'll see like the sun is falling inside water. Isn't it? So alexander is not an exception. This verse is telling us what alexander experiences on his journey, he saw the sun falling (in a distance view) into a muddy water becouse he is a human being like you... If you want to know what Qur'an says about sun rise and set just ask i'll tell you becouse Qur'an has said much about this world which now scientist are wasting time to prove.
Do you get it

I also have a question for you

So, you are saying basically, it's the reflection on the sun on the water? Is that your interpretation or is that what the Quran and Hadith said?

GhostFaceKiller: ur proph lived and die for this puss... talk about 7th century thug life ....mo was Pac back in the day

We get your point, please take it down

tintingz: this is what they display when your christian fello got fustrated

It's courtesy and common sense - it has nothing to do with Christianity. His manner of expression is uncalled for and not appropriate.