₦airaland Forum

plappville: Haahahaha...i can't send it oo, its a written words saying,: To avoid being banned, please ensure that your post is not offensive to Islam.... Do this appears only when i am typing in the Islam section...hahahaha
I don't care if they ban me, its not a problem, multiple IDs is allowed..

I see that as well. Again, let them BAN - that wouldn't stop me from posting

tintingz: if you must understand what am saying Jesus(as) message to the isrealite is to worship God only

Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, "The most important is, 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord''

Luke 4:8 Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only."


Quran 5:72 ''But the Messiah
[Jesus] said: ‘O Children of
Israel! Worship God, my Lord
and your Lord.''

You keep confusing yourself. Let me ask you, those Bible verses you quoted from, which Bible did you use i.e. KJV or NIV? Isn't that the same Bible you claim is corrupt? Yet you conveniently quote it to make your point?

And your Surah in Quran 5:72. What Bible is it quoting from? Can you please let us know? Since you claim Christians have a corrupt Bible, can you let us know the Bible the Quran is quoting from? Your imaginary Bible is not corrupt; yet the one you quote from and the one we read is Corrupt abi?

maggdon: Hw can i open my eyes nd allow a guy like me to put his prick in my buttock.. Am i madtttttt..... Wen i neva finish satisfying all d sexy ladies in dis world na guy cum remain... Olorun maje..... I neva do columbia, japanesse, spanish, jamaica, chinesse, mexican, canadian, italo, portugesse galss... Same sex na confirm nonsense

LOL

snakova: what about the LRA in angola and other countries? who are they fighting for? and the crusaders, who did they fight for? na sango abi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Resistance_Army
the US called the war in Iraq a 'crusade' against terrorism, though no active terrorists existed in Iraq before the US invasion in 2003. so what are you saying? as for invasion of countries, why did russia invade georgia? arent they all christians? 900,000 slaughtered is an insignificant number(Estimates of the death toll were up to 1,000,000), what about the second world war? how many were brutally massacred? maybe you can explain why the crusaders ate saracen flesh during the first crusade.

Do you know the difference when something is political and when something is religious? When a thief steals and is caught - will you say he is a christian or muslim or will you judge him by his actions? Was the Lords resistance army trying to impose a Christian State? Was America trying to annex Iraq as one of it's colonies and establish it as a Christian state. Again, what was the motivation? I am not condoning any of these acts. neither am I saying they are right. I am telling you when something is politically or religiously motivated. In Islam, it's a thin line and we don't know. When a group of muslims students kill their teacher because she touched the Quran, is that political or religious? Maybe you can answer that question.

muktar mtt: Dis has nfing 2 do wit me tank 2 Allah am not a christian so am free frm getting marrid 2 a dude lyk me nd most of d xtrian country legalize it lyk USA, Britain, france etc god 4nish dem all. I will never alwd dis in 9ja cos we muslim we against it 100% nd if catch anybbody eyeyansh me kill d mutherfuker

Do you know the difference between a secular state and a Christian state. The countries you mentioned as all secular countries.

Heathen: If its against his will then why is it happening?

Because everyone has a choice to do what he/she wants.

tintingz: mtss...insulting that your corrupt scriptures? Wetin i wan insult in that your bible when we have gay bible version ''Queen James bible''

Prince James bible will soon be out wo

Btw...there are scriptures we muslims should accept in the bible that goes with the Quran

What Bible did the Quran quote on several occasion? Can you tell us where that is?

evolg: I just installed XAMPP on my window7 OS and when i tried to access the phpmyadmin page it displays this error message:


Error

MySQL said: Documentation
#2002 - The server is not responding (or the local MySQL server's socket is not correctly configured)
Connection for controluser as defined in your configuration failed.

Pls how can i solve this problem?

Is MySQL running?

plappville: What can i say to you? I am been warned by NL because of exposing the truth?? So it is an offense to post the Quran.??
It seems its now wrong to expose the truth, are those families that recently lost thier loved ones not offended? the hostages were all
innocent, they were in algeria to work, most of them were not Christians, but they were killed because of Mali crisis. What will offend A will also offend B.

[size=18pt]Ok now i want to become a muslim, can someone preach to me? can someone tell me the other side of the story i have not known?
i am listening, tell me what Islam is all about and how it has affected lives positively, this is a good way to start. Or will i be banned for this??
com'on what a World !! no freedom of speech!! [/size]

The intention is not to offend anyone - if they are, no harm was meant - however, no apologies will be given either. If no one can take criticism, then they shouldn't be on a public forum. The popular Islamic scholar Ahmed Deedat called the Bible, a pornographic book - No one issued a fatwa against him or asked that he should be killed. It was his point of view and opinion. We are having a logical discussion on a public forum. I know emotions runs high when it comes to certain topics. I don't see how the Moderator should ban anyone. We should be civil but be truthful all the same.

mdsocks: one thing you have to know is that you are taking quranic verses out of context. when you quote just a part without recause to when the verse was released and to whom.

That is why we have the Hadith, to explain the interpretation of these verses so we don't take them out of context. Let us consult the Hadiths regarding these verses.

Stalwert: Load of crap, you guys are silent while women are being ra.ped by the minute in Congo, people are being murdered, the same way u people kept quiet while 900,000 were murdered by CHRISTIANS, if this isn't utter hypocrisy I wonder what is? It a takes a hypocrite to distinguish between religion and politics when christianity is involved but unable to do so when another religion is involved!

So you totally ignored the post I referred to about the deceased and what happened in Gombe. Also, you didn't see my mention about Sunnis killing Shiites - Common tactic employed in Islam; shame no gree you condemn the killing. Yet, you claim it is "Christians" that are raping people in Congo. Maybe the rebels in Congo told you that they want to establish their "Christian version of Sharia" that is why they are raping and killing people. Maybe the M23 rebels claimed they want to remove the government in Kinshasa because they want to establish a Christian state. And while they are at it, they shouted "Jesus is Great" down with infidels. Keep generating false-hood, it appears that is all you are good at. You put down your common sense and brain God has given you when it comes to Islam. Show us the proof where Christians killed 900,000 people. Your mouth is full or allegations yet you can't back them up.

No one is forcing you to convert to another religion or telling you one religion is better than the other. Again, if you believe in stones, don't throw it at others.

If you think I will condone violence because of religious leanings you are mistaken. I am asking you to prove that Rwanda or Congo violence is/was Christian motivated; that is all I am asking you. If it is/was; I will be the first one with you to CONDEMN it. If muslims are attacked anywhere and killed, I will condemn it, I will not play religion or politics with it. The issue here is what motivates a person i.e. christian/muslim to commit the violence. Typical example, MEND in the Niger Delta - they took up arms against the government, so they were rebels. They fought and I am sure they killed people. Been that they are mainly from the south-south; it is safe to call them Christians (this is an assumption). However, you will bear witness that their motive is political and not religious. Their claim is that they are/were fighting for a fair share of their oil wealth. They never wanted to establish a Christian State (as it is in Mali - an Islamic state). I am giving you a typical example so we can trace the REASON as to why these happen. The MOTIVE determines if it is religious or political.

Stalwert: Page 17? All because of a letter that refutes the brain washed assertions of christians and their lying propagandist?
Sighs . . . Tintingz well done, you really can not describe what the colour whit looks like to the blind, women are being rape by the adherents of the religion of lust sorry love in Congo by day and night yet no christian group have said anything about it, it must be hypocrisy that rules your heart the same silence of the christians led to the massacre of 900,000 Rwanda yet till date they still practice the same ideology of being quite when Christian suffer in the hands of Christians, isn't it ironic that you people prefer to keep silence when Christians are being murdered and rape by fellow christians in Congo (just as it happened in Rwanda - in fact Rwanda resembles Yaweh(Jehovah who sent Jesus) order to the jews that they should cleanse an entire village of men,women and child same thing happend in Rwanda, children were particularly targeted to ensure the extermination of their enemies) you guys hypocrisy is very intriguing and shows the utter lie claims of muslim violence is, a lie used to by christians whose faith have gone sour and weak needing reassuring lies every moment to remain stead fast, but in their schemes to destroy the light of God, God schemes to make the light perfect!

So the genocide in Rwanda was caused by Christians abi? Or the Liberian Civil war or the war in Sierra-Leon or the Biafra war as well? Keep on publicly showing your ignorance to justify the violence perpetuated in Islam. I understand your confusion, you think political conflicts in non Islamic states like Rwanda and Congo means they are religious. Your confusion is displayed because in Islam there is no DISTINCTION BETWEEN POLITICS & RELIGION. That is why a young brilliant man can stripe bomb to himself and blow up other people (Shouting Allah is great in the process of doing it)because his Cleric or whosoever tells him to do it and thinks his reward is in Paradise. The stupid cleric might be trying to further his own political agenda.

So, we are lying that Islam has a violence problem? HAHAHAHA. I won't even claim this one against Christianity. Why Sunnis they kill Shiite for Iraq? I thought muslims are not allowed to harm and kill themselves? Or why Sadaam invaded Kuwait and killed innocent muslims and partly invaded Saudi Arabia? When Sadaam ruled in Iraq, who did he oppress most, the Shiites and Kurds - where the Shiites not Muslims? How would a muslim kill another muslim? Think carefully before you answer; you never know - you might just be talking with someone with Shiite lineage. Muslims have violence between yourselves even before you attack other faiths. I dey wait your answer.

Here is a thread on Nairaland on how muslim students in Gombe killed an innocent NYSC teacher in 2007. Go on and deny this one. I won't be surprise if you claim the deceased deserved to die. They killed the innocent woman because some of the students were cheating and hiding their answers in the Quran, the lady saw it and because she touched the Quran to get the cheat paper, that was her death sentence. Maybe you have heard of a Christian killing another person when the bible was touched. Go on, tell us.

https://www.nairaland.com/46741/gombe-muslim-students-put-me

For some reason, you guys think this is an attack on Islam and you MUST defend it. IT IS NOT. We are looking for logical conclusions as to why someone will kill his/her teacher because their holy book was touched. Please crack that bone.

plappville: The only truth of this matter is that, the Quran/Hadith contradicts this letter. I have pesistantly hold on to this.
Let me be banned for qouting the quran, its nothing after all NL is just a forum.

Send me the warning they sent you - I will address the moderator myself. Let them ban, I will register another account and post.

plappville: They are taking advantages of us, they have all the right to trow insults even when u did not insult back, they want to believe they are brave as usual.
They get offended when you qoute thier books. I was warned by the moderator, i wonder what offense i have commited.
I can understand, those quranic verses meant exactly what it states, that's why they get upset when it is posted in this forum.

You were warned by the moderator because of what? Please let me know what the moderator said. So if they get upset then what happens. The truth hurts, especially when it confronts people beliefs. If they can't stomach criticism, then they shouldn't post of the topic. No one is going to prevent another person from expressing his/her views on public forum. Our muslims friends have the same right just like everyone else.

plappville: Then you quran has lied agaisnt Jesus. your quran said Jesus was faultless/sinless and you are saying he did sin graviously...
It says Christ was a wonderful, humble, generous messenger of God who came down and revealed God's words to his people. You are saying the opposite because the Quran is being exposed..

4:156-159 "That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; That they said (in boast): 'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.' But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjunction to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise. And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (Jesus) Before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness Against them.

who is allah? you said Jesus hated the jews, and was violence why your quran is saying allah raised a violent man that hated Gods people? what sense are you making..

"Thereupon she pointed to him. They said, 'How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?' Jesus said, 'I am a servant of ALLAH. HE has given me the Book, and has made me a Prophet; 'And HE has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me Prayer and almsgiving so long as I live; 'And HE has made me dutiful towards my mother, and has not made me arrogant and graceless; 'And peace was on me the day I was born, and peace will be on me the day I shall die, and the day I shall be raised up to life again.' That was Jesus, son of Mary. This is a statement of the truth concerning which they entertain doubt."—Qur'an, Surah 19:30-35

This book is full of sick notes hahahaha....

The Guy has no integrity whatsoever - HE LIES AND SMILES ABOUT IT. Ask him to prove it, he will start sending you web links to read. I don't think he is aware that he is justifying violence in Islam. Thanks for your plappville, as always, very informative.

tintingz: oh puleeees keep that your figurative to yourself and know that Jesus preaches violent in the bible he HATE the jews with passion...your sister plappville will arive and say its parable *chuckle*

Hallie was right for christians are mini-dajjal while christianity is the dajjal itself... oh you forgot the slogan your christian brothers shouted when they kill muslims "Jesus kill Mohammed"

Keep on with you ignorance. The only thing I can do is pray for you. Keep distorting facts and as always evade questions, play stupid and think you are acting smart. Don't you get tired of lying, claiming Christians kill Muslims and shout "Jesus kill Mohammed", NA WA OH!. So, all you have done is justified that violence is indeed real in Islam and want to drag Christianity into it as well. I am even ashamed to ask you to prove this one . You will start your Allah defending spree.

I wish you all the best. God bless.

Hallie27: **yawning...** pls dont tell me u still arguing on this thread, people are dying every second, d world is getter closer to oblivion,yet....
Tintingz,skak and nagoma,pls in the name of Allah, leave these people to their beliefs,let them think whatever they want about Islam. Lets use our precious time to move closer to Allah, learn more and more about our deen,and participate in dawah with our fellow brothers and sisters..these people are just mini-dajjals that are trying to distract and engage us in frivolities. One thing is certain,kalla saya'lamun....May Allah make us steadfast muslims, and forgive us of our shortcomings,Amin. Asalam alaykum warahmatullah wa barakatuhu...

Na you be Dajjal. You are not a mini-one but a prime one.

tintingz: Violent,curses and condemnation encouraged by Jesus in the bible

John 8:44
Ye are of [your] father the devil , and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth , because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie,he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Mathew 23:33
"You serpents, you generation of vipers , how canye escape the damnation of hell "?

Mathew 12:34
"O generation of vipers , how can ye, being evil , speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks"

Mathew 12:39
"But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seekethafter a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas"

Mathew 16:4
A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed

Mathew 23:17
"You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the templethat makes the gold sacred"?

Luke 19:27
"But those mine enemies, whichwould not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Luke 12:49
"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

2 Peter 2:12
"These false teachers are like unthinking animals, creatures ofinstinct, born to be caught and destroyed. They scoff at things they do not understand, and like animals, they will be destroyed."

John 2:15
[Jesus] made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Luke 22:36,38
[Jesus] said to them, "But now ifyou have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one, " The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.

Matthew 10:35
35 For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—

Luke 12:50-53
50 But I have a baptsm to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bringpeace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

PRINCE OF PEACE INDEED WITH ALL THIS RAGE HATRED TO THE JEWS

Do you know actually know how to read. Do you know when something is applied figuratively. Let me give you an example before you make yourself look stupid (you already have)

Luke 12:49 - I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Let me give you some Bible study because it appears you are displaying your MUMUNESS for everyone to see. This verse is applied figuratively (go look it up if you don't know what it means). Fire is used here figuratively and associated with judgement & division. In essence, judgement falls on the wicked, who are separated from the righteous. Stop displaying your ignorance in public. No Christian shouts "Jesus is King" and blows up a Mosque. You should know people that do that and what name they call "Allah" when killing innocent people.

Again, stop displaying your stupidity in public. It is laughable. I am actually thinking if you read English in school?

[quote author=skak][/quote]My apologies for getting your name wrong. However, you are coming across as stupid and foolish. Your friend tintingz claimed she was 12, I asked him to prove it; his response was - the catholic church said she was 12 so that is good enough for me. You too foolishly tag along to score religious point. I never claimed she was 12, there is no record that she was 12. Your proof is hear-say, so because the Bible didn't mention it then it means the Bible is lying. The issue where Mary age came up was because you guys are trying to justify that Mary was as young as Aisha when Mohammed married her. First, you can't prove if she was 12 or not. Secondly, a grown up like you don't know the difference between a 6 year old and a 12 year old? Keep on diverting the subject, if Mary age was of any importance, why didn't you bring it up earlier, why do you have to wait to be asked about Mohammed marrying Aisha at 6 before you brought it up? It is shameless and wicked to LIE soooo bluntly and justify it. However, I don't expect anything less from you - Mohammed must be rolling in his grave laughing at you.

You keep insisting christians worship Mary, you asked me earlier and I explained it to you but you are already resolved in your heart to IGNORE it. Why not use the Bible and show me where Christians worship Mary?

So you want me to show you verses in the Quran that encourages violence - I will take you up on this one

1. Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." You will start claiming I am taking it out of context. However, I will prove to you how it is not taken out of context

2. Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

3. Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

4. Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"

5. Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them". Go ahead and claim that this one is a spiritual struggle

6. Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

7. Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

8. Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."

9. Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

10. Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves". Islam doesn't seem to treat everyone equally

11. Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."

I haven't even touched the Hadith yet, but go ahead and defend every single passage. Keep claiming Islam doesn't encourage violence. Again, don't divert to christianity and start attacking it to answer your questions. Answer them.

Maybe you read the BH is a christian group - you are delusional. If you think we are all ignorant, you are mistaken; we have seen Islam for what it is. And if you think some of us are stupid and wouldn't defend ourselves; you are mistaken.

Maybe when you read online and hear the rebels in Mali are trying to impose Christian Sharia or the rebels are Christians and cut of people limbs and hands. Then you can open your mouth and talk about violence in Christianity. Did Jesus ever fight any battle? How many battles was Mohammed engaged in? Or maybe you hear of christians leaving church after sunday in southern nigeria and going to mosques and start burning them and killing people. The opposite is true of your brothers up north. Even before the advent of Boko Haram, the atrocities committed in northern Nigeria against Christians is shameless. I have documented most of them and will gladly give all of them to you so you can PROVE Islam doesn't encourage violence.

Maybe Boko Haram wants to create a christian state, so far, we see, read, hear that they want to create an Islamic state. Are they achieving that using peaceful means, NOPE!. They are killing people.

Maybe these videos show that the bombings are done by Christians:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIpKEVGrraU

Listen to him and ask yourself whether it is the Bible or Quran he is quoting


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dEJAo6wZa4

tintingz: God bless...

I wont post any long post but if you can take your time and read any of this three links, you will understand more about the historical writtens of her age

What Was Aisha's Real age when she married Prophet Muhammad?

What was the age of Aisha (Aysha or Ayesha) at the time her marriage to Prophet Mohammad was consummated?

Our Mother A'isha's Age At The Time Of Her Marriage to The Prophet

It is reported in Taqri'bu'l-tehzi'b as well as Al-bidayah wa'l-nihayah that Asma died in 73 hijrah when she was 100 yearsold. Now, obviously if Asma was 100 years old in 73 hijrah she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Ayesha should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Ayesha, if she gotmarried in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH, was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.

15 to 16 or 18 to 20 years old was the history recorded

So Aisha was lying in Bukhari 58:234?

Narrated Aisha:

The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

tintingz: ^hahahaha funny fellow

Catholic brought christianity to Nigeria and they honour Mary to extent that she became their godess(Mary mother of God) so they have every historical prove about Mary's life time and other saints

So dont come here telling me Aisha(r) was 9yr old when she got married to the Prophet(sa) cuz many historical written tells us she was 15 to 16 years when she(Aisha(r) married Mohammed(sa)

tintingz - I have set the record straight, whether you choose to believe it or not is up to you.

If your HISTORY tells you Aisha was 15 to 16 years before Mohammed married her - please show us that history. The Hadith claimed she was 6 and 7. You still haven't proved Mary was 12, now you are here claiming Aisha was 15 to 16. I will leave you to your own reasoning. Good luck and God bless.

tintingz: so how do the catholic knew about her age

Why didn't you ask yourself that question before you CLAIMED she was 12. Imagine me making a claim that the prophet married Aisha when she was 2 years old. The Quran or the Hadith never said that - so you will ask me where I got that from. I will have to PROVE it or you will call me a LIAR - THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

Sit for a while and reason intelligently: The same "Catholics" that told you the earth was flat in 1615 are the same "Catholics" telling you Mary was 12 when she married Joseph. Your friend Nagoma is of the opinion that because they are Catholics, they speak for the Bible. I have showed him from the Bible, that the earth is circular. Just the same way I am showing you that the Bible never at any point mentioned or discussed the age of Mary when she married.

On the flip side - the Hadith (a holy writ of yours) does specify the age of Aisha when Mohammed married her. It also CONFIRMS the prophet stand on where the sun sets. So, arguing and twisting it or defending it by justifying it and comparing it with whatever doesn't do anything. The PROOF is from your own Holy book(s)

nagoma: I saw circle of the earth in a sentence. Did the pope in 1615 not read the bible? Or did he not see it and interpret it as you did?Or perhaps this is in the newest version of the bible? - I understand there are many different versions.

You asked me to provide evidence in the Bible, I have provided it and YOU HAVE READ IT YOURSELF. The Bible is the ONLY authoritative source for a Christian - no pastor, no Pope, no Bishop. If you feel the Pope in 1615 interpretation supersedes the Bible interpretation - why are you addressing that question to me? I confirm the Bible position on it; no one else.

If the Bible you read Isaiah 40:22 from is different from what you quoted, perhaps you can let us know what yours read. Islam claim the Bible is corrupt and what we read now is not the original. I am sure muslims know where the original is - can you tell us what the original Bible said? Stop trying to distort the evidence and invalidate it.

tintingz: can you tell us what age...?

The Bible never gave an account of her AGE oh! I have told you this already, I never made the claim. So, that is why I am interested in your account of her age when she married. Your only source is Jewish customs and the Catholic church - is that all you can come up with? The Hadith was VERY precise and on point when it stated the AGE that Mohammed married Aisha & it CONFIRMED IT.

nagoma: You have not told me at what age girls were married in your community 1500 years ago.

It's such a pain discussing with a cantankerous person. I have not in anyway justified child marriage. I only tried to explain sociologically ( not religiously ) why it was and is still happening. You keep dwelling on the prophet just to score cheap pouts against Islam when your priests , your intercessors are violating little boys with impunity as we speak. The law of Christian silence is hiding them frm prosecution. They are not even sacked from the church. The man ( steward to the pope who tried to blow the whistle was quickly bundled up and imprisoned. Deal with this reality instead of worrying about Muhammad.

If you haven't justified child marriage - Then you are against Mohammed marrying Aisha? - Answer this question in all honesty. Perhaps if you read my response to you more closely and see where I mentioned it even though it might be a cultural issue; in Islam it is permitted, even 1500 years later.

You supposedly knew my ancestors because you called them Gorillas and monkeys - I replied that even if they were - they don't molest and marry their young and they sure knew where the sun set

tintingz: any source for this your listed trash...

I will provide it. However, I am still waiting for your PROOF that Mary was 12 years old when she married Joseph.

nagoma: You forgot to refer me to the verse in the bible where it says the world is round. I wonder why those wicked Christians had to torture the poor scientist Galeleo accusing him of heresy. Don't they read the bible? So they didn't see that verse either?

Call them up and ask them. Write the Pope in Rome and ask why his Church did it.

Here is the verse you asked for Isaiah 40:22.

Again, this topic is not about the Bible and it's claim, it's about the Quran, Hadith and it's own claim.

nagoma: I wonder how you got to know your ancestors expertise in astronomy and geography when the Christian world was drowning in ignorance , dogma and superstition at that time. Why did your ancestors not talk? Must have been the fear of the inquisition, the punitive heracy laws and death from blasphemy convictions.
You will know about the Italian philosopher , astronomer and mathematician named Galileo ( 1564 - 1642). He made subscription that the world was round and not flat and the sun and not the earth was the center of the planetary universe. He. Nearly lost his life as these assertions contradicted the views of Christianity and the church. He had to in 1615 face the church inquisition and was tortured and forced to withdraw his proclamation of face death. He still had to live the rest of his life under house arrest.the history of torture and killings by the church will fill a small library. I am sure you know that.
The other part of this comment is that ; the islamic ruler of Baghdad Khalif El- Ma'amun ( ruled 813-833 CE) who was the spiritual and political leader of the Muslim world at that time., sent surveyors to make measurements that would make it possible to measure the diameter of the earth. They did, and from this obtained the radius of the globe. Their estimates , according to experts compare very well even to the values used today.the point is that you must know that the world is not flat but round to ask for a dimeter measurement.radius and diameter are indices applicable to circles and spheres only. This happened 800 years before Galeleo and his ordeal. The Muslim Khalif was at least 800 years ahead of the Christian world in this respect at that time. As for your sunset in water , it is not in the Qur'an and if it's Hadith , it will need to be authenticated. As you are aware after the time of Muhammad ( SAW) the Jews fabricated and proliferated false hadiths to spite and possibly destroy Islam , they ( you) are still doing that and this must be one of the fabricated hadiths, unless you can trace it's origin and chain of transmission. Such a matter considered so seriously would have been in the Quoran if it was not a fabrication.

Now, you are here claiming that the Hadith I quoted is not authentic - NA WA OH!. So, you are denying your own Hadith because it tells you the truth?

Common Islamic defense of bringing up totally different subject to get off topic. Leave this for another discussion or open a thread and we will discuss it. Stick to this one for now.

Perhaps Mohammed should have done the same thing the islamic ruler of Baghdad Khalif El- Ma'amun (ruled 813-833 CE) did before he claimed the sun set in a pool of warm water. You are now blaming his statements on the Jews that they distorted your Hadith. Your ignorance is laughable.

The Bible indicates that the earth is round/circle. It did so before your Galileo or your muslim ruler attempted to. Yet Allah in all his Wisdom couldn't clarify that but some jews wanted to LIE on Mohammed so bad that they introduced false Hadiths that muslims read everyday - NA WA OH!.

zkak - Said the Hadith was in-correct but from a muslim source. You are here saying it was the Jews that wrote that Hadith that muslims read. Probably you two should sit down and verify which is which before you display your fallacy online.

nagoma: I am using a small device so cannot reproduce your rather repetitive comments here but I will attempt to cover them.
1. Talking about what your ancestors 's marriage customs were 1500 years ago, you evaded the question as expected. The aim of the question is to tell you that 14-1500 years is a very long time and few cultures in the world would have records of marriages at that time and the ages of the brides. But I can tell you that child marriage both between 2 chidden and between a child bride and an older man were common in most societies including Europian societies. Some of the sociological reasons for that were a) the importance of chastity and preservation of Virginity in girls. b). Economic reasons as girls and women had less opportunity to live and independent life, work and earn a living.
Marriage of the female child still takes place in many cultures around the world but is reducing due partly, to advocacy for children's right , women's right and human rights in general. You cannot make a judgement of issues related to specific cultures of events that happened 14- 1500 years ago based on today's values just because it gives you a cheap means of ridiculing Islam. Values do change with time, that is why those who at this time openly object to homosexuality and same sex marriage are considered intolerant and out of tune or even oppressors! This was not so years ago. I will comment about your geography/ astronomy question of the water sunset next. But I will remind you to tell me how your ancestors married and the age of their brides 1500 years ago - for you even 500 years ago would be fine- assuming that you didn't forcibly marry monkeys.

You keep shooting yourself in the foot. Justifying marriage to a 6 year old that it was a cultural thing that happened 1500 years ago is a cheap way of tackling the problem. You also stated that it was done in other societies i.e. European societies as well trying to rationalize it and make it acceptable. In justifying your statements; your friends said Mary was 12 years old yet haven't been able to prove it when asked to; as if 12 and 6 are the same? Makes me wonder where they learned math from. All they can say is - it was the custom of the Jews. Totally void of any sound reasoning just to score religious points.

Stop claiming it is primarily cultural, such marriages are permitted under SHARIA LAW and it has been happening since your prophet married an underage girl and it is still happening now. If your claim that it is cultural and the arabs did it, why is child marriage so rampant with muslims in Northern Nigeria & other Islamic countries? Are northern Nigerians Arabs? Are muslims in Bangladesh Arabs? For you to tackle the primary cause that Islam permits child marriage and it should stop, you are here shouting - IT IS CULTURAL AND HAPPENED 1500 years ago, so it is okay.

Maybe I should give you example of your Islamic scholars and their views so you will know it is not a cultural thing nor was it confined to 1500 years ago:

1. Skeikh Mohamed Ibn Abderrahmane Al-Maghraoui - A nine-year-old girl has the same sexual capacities like a woman of twenty and over

2. Dr. Ahmad al-Mu’bi, Saudi marriage officiant - You can have a marriage contract even with a 1-year-old girl, not to mention a girl of 9, 7 or 8. But is the girl ready for sex or not? What is the appropriate age for sex for the first time? This varies according to environment and tradition

3. Sheikh Mohamed Ben Abderrahman Al-Maghraou - The marriage of nine-year-old girls is not forbidden because according to the Hadith (the Prophet Mohammed's sayings), Mohammed married Aisha when she was only seven-years-old and he consummated his union when she was nine

4. Imam Sani, a Nigerian cleric - Child marriage in Islam is permissible. In the Koran there is no specific age of marriage...[If the government imposed new laws against child marriage] There will be violent conflict from the Muslims, saying that 'no, we will not accept this, we'd rather die than accept something which is not a law from Allah

5. Sheikh Hamoud Hashim al-Tharihi, general secretary of the Vice and Virtue Committee and member of the Islah Party in Yemen - Because this happened to the Prophet, we cannot tell people that it is prohibited to marry at an early age

6. Mufti Fazlul Haque Amini - Banning child marriage will cause challenging the marriage of the holy prophet of Islam, who also married minor Ayesha, when she was just eight years old. The new law [seeking to ban child marriages] initiated by the current government [of Bangladesh] will put the moral character of the prophet into controversy and challenge. Islam permits child marriage and it will not be tolerated if any ruler will ever try to touch this issue in the name of giving more rights to women.

Let me bring it home for you in Nigeria before you claim again it is cultural. One Islamic land where child marriage is common -- in fact, more common than anywhere else in the world -- is northern Nigeria, where Sharia is in force. The Nigerian government has tried to act against the practice, passing a law in 2003, the Child Rights Act, that set the minimum age for marriage at eighteen. Islamic clerics have been the fiercest opponents of this law. Nigeria is made up of 36 states, of which 18 have passed the Child Rights Act; however, only one majority-Muslim Nigerian state has passed the law, and that with a change that set "puberty," rather than the age of eighteen, as the minimum requirement for lawful marriage. The result? As many as 800,000 Nigerian women are afflicted with fistula, a disease resulting from early intercourse and pregnancy.

Go on claiming that it is cultural and it only happened in Mohammed era.

tintingz: dude you are not making any sense...must everything be said in the bible? Why do we have history records... The historian, early churchs knew the age of Mary(as) when she got married to Joseph and it was 12 yr old do your research... is like asking same in the Quran what age was Aisha(r) when she married Mohammed(sa)

Maybe i should direct you to this link Was Jesus Crucified On A
Cross, Pole, Or Stake?
http://nairaland.com/1162765/jesus-crucified-cross-pole-stake

I will be waiting for your answers there from the bible scriptures, i dont wanna post in this thread again

Let us handle the Mary was 12 question. Leave Jesus Crucified on a pole for another discussion. If you are claiming Mary was 12 - Isn't the Bible the authoritative source for the question at hand. Wasn't it the Bible you got to know that Mary was the mother of Jesus from or that she married Joseph? TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, the Hadith stated Aisha was 6. I have referenced that SEVERAL times. Or you don't believe the Hadith anymore? Isn't it part of your holy writs?

Now, you are side-stepping the question again and saying the Bible shouldn't be the source. I should check HISTORY and early records. WHERE ARE THE HISTORY AND EARLY RECORDS FROM OOOOOOH!.

Aisha was 6 was taken from your Hadith - Bukhari 58:234. Isn't my research from your Hadith? Did I quote some Islamic scholar

Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234:
Narrated Aisha:

The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

The girl clearly stated she was 6 years old. Na from your hadith ooohhhh! I didn't read it up anywhere else. Even the child dad wasn't in support of it, yet Mohammed said, oh boy - forget that thing; this is Islam, it is possible:

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 18:
Narrated 'Ursa:

The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."

I haven't quoted any other history book, I have only quoted the Hadith except of course you are claiming the Hadith is wrong or you don't believe in it.

If you can't FIND Mary was 12 when she married Joseph it is because the Bible never made such claim. In your justification, you will claim that the Catholics and Jews said it and I should check it up. You claimed it, I didn't so the burden of proof is on you - not me.

Again, I am still waiting for your Historical reference and PROOF!

tintingz: @alexis...so how old was Mary when she was betroth, married and pregnant? since you know better than the catholic priest scholars and the jewish culture

The Bible never said anything about her age. You claimed she was 12. You should answer the question where you saw it in the Bible. While at it, ask the Catholic priests where they read she was 12 in the Bible as well.

The Hadith stated this, I didn't - (Sahih Bukhari volume 5, book 58, number 234). I didn't say some Islamic scholar stated it or it was the culture of the arabs. I took it from one of your holy writs. All I am asking is that you do the same to prove Mary was 12.

proo212: Skak & Tintingz, you have seen Jesus' words that He said He is the Son of God but you do not agree with it....You have quietly ignored John 1:12 that says 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

So you acknowledge that God is our Father and not our master (because we believe in Him), He gave us right to be sons/children. I see you quoted 1 John 3:1 but if you go to verse 2 it says 2 Beloved, now we are children of God[/colo[/b]r]; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is

Did you see that? [b]Now we are children of God [color=#990000]after believing in Him. We are justified/declared righteous by believing in Him (my emphasis)

From the logic/analysis, Abraham too was made the son of God because he believed in God and was declared justified/righteous (Gen 15:6, Romans 4:3, Romans 4:9, Romans 4:22, Galatians 3:6, James 2:23 and Psalm 106:31)

Jesus Christ is the Son of God who was there from the beginning that is why He said in John 17:1-5

And that is the difference, we are children of God and not slaves of Allah. As children we can approach Him anytime. Is Allah as approachable as God?

God bless you for taking your time to explain this. I enjoyed reading this