₦airaland Forum

Please let us compile poignant atheist quotes here for reference.

All quotes I post are made by famous atheists. Not mine. If you add your own personal quote, please sign your name to it.

Religious people, please desist from derailing. Manmustwac, we need you on this.

JeSoul, this is a test for you. If you can be as arduous in moderating this thread as you moderate those that call for only pro-christian comments, then you'll have my respect but if you allow your people to run amock here, then everybody will see how this section is really run. Thanks in advance.

wiegraf: You've not shown how this is detrimental to humanity, if there is a way of achieving it that is impervious to abuse, ie, so the bolded is moot.

Maybe I should have said would instead of will. In any case, one could also argue that euthanasia proponents also haven't shown how it would be beneficial to humanity. In which case we ask, why do it?

wiegraf: If these are your arguments then;



And who says this is the what's happening? Abandoning people and killing them? Killing them? Yes. Murder? Definitely not. That's a salient distinction.

What exactly does philosophy have to do with this per say anyhow? It's an issue of individual rights, that's also important 'philosophically', no?

As they say, "all die be die". Whether killed humanely or in cold blood, one is dead. The definition is what the living tell themselves. Is killing an armed robber murder? If a mentally deranged man that is not responsible for his action rapes your daughter, kills your wife and you kill him in rage, is it murder? So where is the distinction? Also note that euthanasia is classified as murder in many countries.

Yes individual right is philosophical as well and very important. But more important is the collective well being. In the case of euthanasia, it is not eternal suffering like hell. The death the patient is praying for will surely come. He just have to exercise some patience. I would rather that single patient suffer for some time than to legally allow his murder, which, given the eventual abuse that will follow, will allow the legal murder of those that do not wish to die.

wiegraf: And the whole point is to put rigorous checks in place to make sure it's only applied in cases in which the patients involved have their full mental capacities and virtually no chance of survival.

Well, if they had no chance of survival, they would already be dead. I believe in the saying that where there is life, there is hope. Succumbing to euthanasia means that humans have abandoned all hope and would rather kill themselves.

wiegraf: And I'm not sure how you make this leap. Why in the world does legalizing euthenasia or (assisted suicide, better term which I would use) lead to less investment in medical research? That would be silly, what of future generations, or even cases of those similarly inflicted but who choose to fight on despite their poor prognosis?

That's exactly my point!
If it's easier to kill people off when they ask to be killed or when they are sick, why would one invest in research that keeps people alive? People will start investing in pro-euthanasia undertakings. It is not a leap. It is how capitalism works. Remember Romney with his anti-abortion stance but is a major stake-holder in an aborted foetus disposal company.

Assisted suicide is one of those oxymorons that actually make no sense. If it is assisted, then it is not suicide. Especially as the person dying is totally passive in the act.

wiegraf: And what of organ failures and such? What exactly is to be learned in these situations? And a patient that is dying is supposed to pass on his already failed genes? If his genes were any good or resistant, he wouldn't be dying now, would he? Also, are the patients now required to submit, against their will, to experimentation? (If you argue that abortion is an issue of the woman's right to do what she wants to do with her body (which is a valid argument as well imo), can you see how weak/hypocritical this stance is?)

This argument is flawed on many levels and quite scary that one should think in those terms. Are you saying that people with some genetic 'flaws' should be disposed of? What do you mean by "already failed genes"?
Also, nobody is being forced to submit against one's will. If you are sick, a doctor's responsibility should be how to cure you. If you can't be cured, society has a duty to learn what caused your illness, try harder to find a cure, research it and see how to prevent others going through the same. Their duty is not to kill you off, whatever fancy name they choose to call your murder.

wiegraf: So far, all I've read (granted I've not read the whole thread) is subjective, you simply don't like it. Your opinion does not override the rights of the individuals involved, at least I would hope not. I need not point out why, I hope (as well). It's not your life, not your decision to end it or not.

edits: nothing major, I think

What I don't like is the message it gives: humans have reached their medical limit.

The individuals still have all their rights. If I had a disease that caused my arms to be cut off, it doesn't grant me the right to be wanked-off by someone else whenever I wish.

striktlymi: Let me guess...it didn't even hit you!!!

And it never will.

We need unity to combat the marginalisation we have on this section. We actually need a section of ours but if we must be yoked with the accursed believers, then they must be forced to hear our voice.

-All stickied threads are pro-christian.

-The atheist moderator has no significant powers.

-No atheist topic ever makes the front page.

-Anti-god posts are systematically hidden.

-Seun succombs to christian bullying.

-Even muslims have their own section.

Please let us form a strategy to pressure the administration into doing something about this because we cannot continue to accept the status quo.

toba: is atheism a religion?

Is abstinence a sexual position?

^^^ I am happy in my real life and sad on Nairaland. For some people, the reverse is the case.

Logicboy03: Legion?

So you are now labelling yourself according to the bible? You know what happened to legion, dont you? You guys ran into pigs

Stop believing things you read in the bible.

Logicboy03: lol really?

Someone just sounds jealous.....I mean, you must be lonely with all that empty religion thatis Satanism.

Empty? Ha! You don't know what you are talking about. We are Legion. You are even one of our ignorant bona fide members.

Logicboy03: Why are you just being silly?

Did wiegraff not mention the mental stability of the patient which I had already mentioned?
Did Weigraff not talk about checks and balances on euthanasia which I listed out previously?


Guy, go siddon.

ok

Logicboy03: Seeing my efforts and results on nairaland............


Why cant you do it yourself? Must everything atheist be logicboy?

I belong to Satan.

Results on Nairaland? Hahaha. You may have made more people remain steadfast in their faith when you come to think of it. It is in your interest to join an atheist group to learn how to properly talk to people instead of shouting butthurt and debunked all over the place and thinking it is deconverting people.

Logicboy03: Yawn.......guy keep trying to remix

Were you yawning during your secondary school English lessons?

Logicboy03: What happened to all my comments on this thread before Weigraff?Are you this butthurt that you cant reason well?

Guy, my thoughts on euthanasia have been well stated long before Weigraff arrived.

Your previous ramblings didn't make much sense. Now you see a near sensible post by someone else and shamelessly jumped in to claim them as your exact thoughts.

Logicboy03: So you are now arguing over foolishness?

How can one use present tense for the first humans? They live thousands of years ago and are long dead! They "were" not they "are"
==========================================================


Even if you want to remix the argument to the current Africans (especially ethopians and peeps from southern africa), their genetic make-up still remains related to the oldest humans. Their african ancestors were the first humans.
Note that this wasnt the original argument but knowing your egotistical self, I wouldnt put it past you to remix. So this is preemptive debunking
==================================================================================


Kai! See what ego and pride does to people? Instadof accepting the debunking given to you, you take more embarrassment by trying to claim that you were right

If you were from a certain region, I would blame free education for this lack of simple grammar grasp.

Read the bolded and look at my statement again. I did not use present tense to qualify the first humans. I used it to qualify Africans.

You are really annoying.

igbo boy: you type "ofe mmanu" (as one word), NAIRALAND auto corrects it as yoruba
you type "yo roba" (as one word).NAIRALAND auto corrects is as yoruba...


WELL why don;t NAIRALAND autocorrects ibo to IGBO each time it is mispelt by some certain cretins?

#DOUBLE STANDARD

Because when the bolded are typed, they know exactly who and what they are.

Logicboy03: False and failed analogy.


The first humans on earth were from Africa therefore, the first humans were Africans.

Your analogy is silly because unlike immigrants to france which could come from different places all over the world, there was only one place from which the first humans came from; AFRICA


So give up......I dont want to debunk you anymore

I see what you did there with the bolded. It's called strawman argument. I never said they weren't Africans. I said the statement doesn't mean that Africans are the first humans.

I know that English is not your mother tongue, so I can understand your confusion but please next time you are confused, read things twice and ask for clarity before making a fool of yourself.

manmustwac: abeg go to youtube & search for The Incredible Human Journey. Episode 1 is called Out Of Africa

Just saw it. It's a BBC documentary. Another propaganda. Please stop believing things just because you saw a video. Use your head and verify.

Logicboy03: Epic, sir, epic!


My thoughts exactly!

It would be good if you could actually express your thoughts yourself instead of copying and pasting other people's own and claiming them as yours.

@wiegraf, I'll get back to you later.

Logicboy03: @ bold.


That was silly

How silly? Like saying the first immigrants to France are Indians means France's immigrants are Indians?

Uyi Iredia: I see. So how do we go from excavations, DNA tests and carbon dating to 'Africans where the first humans (what's the line of reasoning) ? Assuming then Africans were the first humans, how do we account for Europeans, Chinese and other races ?

The first humans came from Africa doesn't mean that Africans are the first humans. Not that I agree with either, mind you.

wiegraf:
You sure. I could have sworn you became a yoruba youth that just moved to the states...

Maybe Obadiah has passed some of his stuff to you because I have no other way of explaining how these words spew from your keyboard.

Me yoruba? Me youth? Me just moved? Me in the states? I don't even know where to begin. Are you sure you are not confusing me with someone else?

wiegraf: Like you say, everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, is subject to abuse. Risks are necessary and unavoidable. Obviously, in the 3rd world it's not worth it. But I wouldn't say the same for some of the west (and some of the far east maybe). There's no excuse in some regions.

Not all risks are necessary. And even less risks which results will be detrimental to humanity.

wipes eyes!

Which atheist topic isn't offensive to christians?

Manmustwac, see beyond her sms. Someone has already gone ahead and blocked your move even before you made. You may be their collegue but rest assured that they harbour exactly the same hatred towards you as they do to Satanists like me. Know thy enemies.

Avicenna: That is why I noted it is not euthanasia. And I quoted that alive because the person has a VERY remote chance of recovery. His muscles will merely suffer atrophy and he will grow older but he most likely will not recover or even improve. This is a persistent vegetative state. Some people try to avoid that by signing an advance decision form.
It is a decision made not to burden his/her family.
You will agree this burden cannot be compared to unemployed youths or babies or children or unproductive members of society.

Euthanasia, on the other hand, is a request for assisted suicide due to 'incurable' diseases and conditions causing interminable pain. These patients are very much alive and may even live long enough BUT in severe pain.

I must admit, my support for euthanasia as it is, has diminished but I know there's a way to avoid all the pitfalls and design a specific, rigid procedure for Euthanasia. Afterall, It is the individuals that make the group. Individual concerns cannot be totally ignored.

I'm not sure I understand your distinction between vegetative state people wishing to die and people in pain wishing to die. For me, they all fall under euthanasia as they are all people looking for other people to kill them.

I do not agree that a burden placed on the family of extremely sick people is greater than the burden placed on the family of extremely lazy ones. Infact, for the sake of humanity, extremely lazy people should be euthanised. But that's another debate.

There may be theoritical ways of avoiding the pitfalls but in practice, once the pandora box opens and the cat is out of the bag, the system would be abused. That's human. There is no human system that is immune to abuse. The real question then becomes, "is it worth it?".

.

Avicenna: You won't only If you are assured of funds to keep you 'alive'.
I understand some people's anxiety at keeping families unnecessarily burdened
by paying the cost of keeping them alive on the remote hope of recovery.
This doesn't apply to people with excess funds.

note, this is not euthanasia.

This point of view raises a lot of other questions why we we should be very cautious about this euthanasia thing. What do you mean by "to keep you 'alive'"? Is staying alive a burden on one's family? We might as well do away with unemployed people still living with their parents. Infact while we are at it why don't we euthanise disfigured babies and every other family member whose continued existence poses unnecessary burden on their families?

Family is more than finance and being healthy and happy. My family is still my family "in sickness and in health". And I hope they feel the same about me.