₦airaland Forum

MuttleyLaff:
Yes everybody's sin was paid for
God is omniscient, having complete awareness, unlimited knowledge or understanding and perceiving all things
He knows the end from the beginning, as so in relation to "sovereign election", He knows who the beneficiaries of salvation will be.
God knows those given the parachute who will stubbornly not pull the string after jumping off the plane
Salvation is not forcibly given or offered against will
Some of the realities of life are that people get things paid in full for them, that sometimes dont get picked up and so gets returned back to the depot unclaimed

Let's digress for a moment, to briefly delve in deep waters a bit.
Sin is a symptom, a malaise of some sort, it needs to rear its ugly head, allowed to bring out or do its worst and run its full course
When it is allowed to develop and to finish naturally, then as promised, sin will be no more


He went go through all of those for mankind
No, it isnt necessarily a failed redemption
The multitude that flood sheol and later transiting to the lake of fire, unfortunately are the irredeemables


It is a bit more complex than that but trust God, salvageable souls will be saved


Yes, saw the sheep. No everybody is not his sheep.
Those that are not, are goats
Refer to Matthew 25:31–46 for more on the Sheep and the Goats

Okay. But i think when it comes to the truth we should drop our opinions/beliefs/ideologies or whatever for the word of God. Don't you think so too?

I read through what you typed, and there are contradictions here and there and of course your personal opinion and what you've been taught.

I'll prefer you cite bible passages( rightly dividing the word) to back every point you raised to counter my post.

Thank you.

Hiswordxray:
"20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross." (Col 1:20)

"18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation." (2Cor 5:18-19)

These verses do not contradict particular redemption in anyway. I think you should make your points clear with the scriptures you've cited.

Hiswordxray:
"25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." (Rom 3:25-26)

God didn't just ignore the sins of the Nineveh. But God took their sins, liad it on Jesus and punished the sins because every sin must be punished. God can not be unjust.

at embolden good. Including the sin of unbelief/acceptance/rejection. Christ died for this one too!

PastorOluT:
Technically u're right, but that's not exactly correct. I will want to believe u have come across the scripture which says there are some sins that does not lead to death while there are some that do?

yes i have come across the scripture sir. Pls what is your point?

Hiswordxray:
That would have been true if this was not in the Bible:
"1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." (1John 2:1-2).

Okay. I get where you are coming from. But hold on are you seriously trying to convince me with just two verses that seem to agree with your view against the multitude of scriptures that teach particular redemption? LOL you no try o.

Well i must admit that this particular verse(2) had put me in a dilemma when i was still struggling with the teaching of limited atonement.

A glance at this verse(2) from a universal point of view will mean Christ died for all with no exception. However a look at this verse from the biblical perspective can only mean Christ died for all without distinction.

Before i explain what that means, it is important that we know that Christ died for ALL "our" sins including the sin of unbelief/acceptance of him as the saviour and Son of God.

1John 3:23 "And this is his commandment that we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ."

Sin is transgression of the law/commandment. This verse implies that unbelief is a sin. If we do not obey this commandment we have sinned. Now was this sin included in the sins that Christ died for? yes. That is why salvation is of the LORD Jonah 2:9 It does not lie in our acceptance of God but in God's sovereign election.

Was everybody's sin atoned for? If yes, everyman without exception must be saved for Christ has paid for their sins including the sin of "rejection of him" or unbelief but you will agree with me that that is not the case. Not everyone gets saved.

Isaiah 53:5" But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace was upon him and with his stripes we are healed."

Look at the latter part of vs 8" for he was cut out of the land of the living, for the transgression of my people was he stricken"

vs 12 " He shall see of the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied, by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities"

Who did Christ go through all these for? if everybody then it was a failed redemption and of no use to the multitude that flood hell. If healing of the soul can only come through Christ's suffering and death as seen above and every man's redemption was obtained then every soul must be saved without a single one lost.

He went through all these for the many that will eventually believe and he looked at what he had done and was satisfied. God was satisfied because the redemption was perfect and complete and of course 100% effectual.

John 10:11 "I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd giveth his life for his sheep"

His sheep. Did you see that? is everybody his sheep?

John 10:26 " But you believe not because you are not of my sheep, as i said unto you."

Notice! election precedes belief! those who believed, believed because they were of his sheep. Not the other way round. Believing does not make you a sheep. Only sheep believe! Not everyone's sin( including unbelief/acceptance)was paid for.

This is what Christ's death without distinction means and what 1John 2:1,2 means.

Revelation 5:9 "... for thou was slain, and has redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue and people and nation

First of all we are redeemed back to God by the blood of Christ plus nothing. Did the redemption include our acceptance of him according to our "free will" so called? God forbid.

Secondly notice that the redeemed where from every nation, tribe etc. without distinction. At times "all" is used in some bible passages just like the "whole world" used in the passage you quoted. Apart from the jewish christians then, according to John there are God's people all over the world whose sins were appropriated for and not just their own. God's chosen people who are scattered abroad can and will only obtain salvation throught the death of one man.. And this man came in time to effect this.

sin is sin. No big, no small. sin is sin.

mcheewwwwwwww

good points OP. Let he that has ears hear.

And to the poster directly above me, are we not suppose to judge righteously anymore? how do we protect the sheep if we do not expose false MOG and rebuke them? how do we warn people and dissuade them from following these wolves if we keep quiet and wait till the final judgement.

Why then did God grant us truth with the ability to discern rightly? To show off abi?

davien:
So "god" is a deceiver then? Or a liar?... Is that you're awesome "god"?

God deceives no man. That job is for man's wicked heart.

To the poor and humble, knowledge is given.

To the rich and proud, wisdom is denied even the tiniest they had.

Do you know one of the reasons God is so awesome, is that He gives fools enough foolish reasons to continue in their foolishness.

The only time i can fear death is if i no longer have the assurance of salvation.

But am confident that my salvation is for ever. Amen.

Which glory is she talking about?

Every man should pray for mercy, the more, as his days are drawing nearer.

You ask this question so you can create a false image of God in your mind.

You don't put the cart before the horse. Someone will go to hell if he/she is not born again. period. This is enough reason on its own to be in hell.

Now, a genuinely saved person will not stay long in a fake church cos he has the light to see which is right and wrong even as he matures in faith.

Attending a fake church as normal is the product of a false conversion.

Caseless:
still confused. This shows christ was not sent to d whole world as u ppl claim.

The bible does not teach salvation for every man that ever lived or will ever live. It talks about a saviour who came to this world to redeem those he had chosen as His from the beginning in Him not on the grounds of anything that they have done or their merits but based on his sovereign election. That's why you see analogies like the shepherd only dying for his sheep.

Am afraid op you only had a false conversion.

You cannot get saved without the knowledge of His death,burial and resurrection. The power that lies in knowing this is what will change your mind for ever.

Caseless:
are u saying christ was selective? I thought they said he died for all.

Christ's atonement on the cross was a limited one. If Christ died for all everybody will be saved for his shed blood through death is the propitiation for our sins.

Emmalot121:
Take a rest, your struggles and worries has been seen by us in Mars, so I was sent to advice you to take a rest. That apart, I've read a lot on Christianity, yet haven't lost my faith. Wonder how you lost yours? Just continue being an atheist, because instead of remaining an atheist after losing your Faith, you instead chose the ignoble route of blasphemy, even the name of the LORD, knowing full well there is no forgiveness. All I have for you is pity. You've turned your brain to the surest way of knowledge, thinking yourself to be very wise, reading articles without reading the counter because it has all YOU wish to know.

at embolden, so true! their minds are already in rebellion against God, all they need are books and articles to keep them there (in that wicked state of heart)

Caseless:
if I accept him, even when I fvck a lady, I haven't 'sinned' abi? The question is, why do we still have sinners when somebody already died for our sins?

we still have sinners going to hell because Christ did not die for all.

Look how few we are viewing this thread. Hmmm where are the others?

chasing money, 'love' et al.

Again, look how very few here know the truth and show concern.

mcheeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwww.

yazach:
It is only a slowpoke like op that will believe the news.

Let us assume it is true, who will want HIV to enter his own family. Christianity is akin to HIV that no sane country will want it spread among her people.

Christianity is light.

As for Islam, well anything but truth and peace.

olu77:
You can't find a nigerian pastor in such location

buhahahahahaha so true.

Nobody is good.

charlesbible14:
BIBLICAL REASONS WHY PAYMENT OF TITHE IS ILLEGAL TO THE CHRISTIAN FAITH

Why did God ask the Israelites to pay tithe? Answer Numbers 18:21-24 shows that it was for the sake of the levitical priesthood.

2) However, in the days of Nehemiah, the Israelites has stopped bringing in the tithe to the levites, hence the levites were forced to abandoned their work in the temple and to look for what to eat, therefore God used Nehemiah to correct the matter, they came back to their work as the Israelites started paying tithe again. See Nehemiah 13:10- 13

3)Once again, in days of prophet Malachi, the Israelites stopped bringing in the tithe to the levitical priesthood as the law required (Numbers 18:21-24)This time God spoke harshly to them through prophet Malachi accusing them of robbing him (Malachi 3:8-10)

(4) However Christians are not required to pay tithe, why? Because the levitical- priesthood has ended and the law governing it also changed which included paying of tithe to them as HEBREWS 7:5,12 SHOWS.
Verse 5 says " And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood have a commandment to take tithe of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the lions of Abraham"
Verse 12 says "for the priesthood been changed, there is made of necessity a changed also of the law "KJV

5) Hence, no Christian in the Bible paid tithe, even. The famous preacher Apostle Paul collected no tithe from all the number of congregations he helped to established. Rather he worked with his own hands to support his ministry as a tent maker (Acts 18: 1-3, 20: 33-34)


6. How then should Christians give today?
Answer 2 Corinthians 9:7 says "You should each, give then as you have Decided, not with regret or out of duty for God loves the one who gives gladly "(Good news Bible )

Finally, any Bible scholar, pastor etc who believes that this explanation is wrong -should Please proof me wrong using the Bible as his basis. Otherwise they should Please stop robbing their members by asking them to pay tithe! Romans 2:21-23 says "do you, however the one teaching someone else not teach yourself, you the one preaching do not steal do you steal?..... You the one abhorring idols do you rob temple? You who take pride in law do you dishonor God by your transgressing of the law?

Comparing our worship to an athlete who runs in a race, the Scripture says "An athlete who runs in a race can not win the prize unless he obeys the rules. (2Timothy 2:5)Good news Bible!

Amen!

Anyone who is seeking justification before God through payment of tithes, observing of sabbath days, etc has automatically brought himself under the curse of the law.

Slaves of righteousness by law/works, tithe to "earn" God's favour and blessings.

Slaves of righteousness by faith, give as it has been purposed in their hearts cos they are blessed already.

mcheeeeeeew not this fake MOG again.

wow nice

good for him

Billyonaire:
My dear I am tired of reading these Igbo/Yoruba threads. An average Igbo person suffers and struggles and government has not been fair to them. These are people who never wanted One Nigeria, but were forced into this union, yet these Yoruba guys are now feeling intimidated by the success and expansivity of Igbo commercial prowess. The constitution does not recognize that any tribe owns any state. What baffles me is that a Yoruba man will take his wife to US or UK to deliver a baby, and the baby automatically is called American or UK citizen, but the same Yoruba person will refuse an Igbo kid delivered in Lagos the right to be called Lagosian.


This is absolute madness cooked with a pot of idiocy, simmered with a pint of hatred. Enemies of progress, hardly progress in this life and in the next life to come.

LOL I cant agree more.

If only some people are honest. The igbo relevance is not even something to debate over.