₦airaland Forum

truthman2012: @ lanrexlan

Abraham abandoned Hagar and Ishmael even though it didn't please him to do so. He had to obey Sarah because God supported her to send them away (Genesis 21:9-12).

God promised to make Ishmael great because of the love He had for Abraham afterall he was his seed but outside legitimate marriage. It was for illegitimate marriage between Abraham and Hagar that God sanctioned their sending away.

Correction - it was not Abraham who settled Hagar and Ishmael in Paran, Arabia. Abraham only prepared them for the journey and sent them away (Gen. 21:14).

You said when Abraham wanted to lay the foundation of Kaaba, he visited Ishmael and told him his mission. Although there is no authoritative source of this statement but if it is true it further confirms that Abraham and Ishmael were not living together in Arabia. How then was the black stone sent to both of them in Arabia?

I pray God will give you understanding to see how the Devil tricks people into believing errors.

How could such a great prophet as Abraham have an illegal wife and a son out of wedlock!

Genesis 16:3: "... and [Sarah] gave her [Hager] to her husband Abram to be his wife."

If the marriage was legal, how could their offspring be illegal? Is a marriage between two foreigners, a Chaldean and an Egyptian, not more legal than a marriage between a man with a daughter of his father?

Whether it was a lie of Abraham or not, it is stated in Genesis 20:12: "And yet indeed she [Sarah] is my sister, she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife."

The name Ishmael was also chosen by Allah Himself: Genesis 16:11: "And the Angel of the Lord said unto her [Hager]: 'Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael, because the Lord hath heard thy affliction."' Ishmael means "God hears."

Where in the Bible is it written that Ishmael was an illegitimate son?

truthman2012: @ ayenny02

Hagar was not Abraham's wife, she was a maid. Other women (including Hagar) who bore children for Abraham were not wives but concubines (Genesis 25:5-6). Concubine means man living with a woman not lawfully married to. Abraham sent all other children away except Isaac, the son from his legitimate wife.So Hagar was not Abraham's legitimate wife.

Abraham was from Mesopotamia (Genesis 24:10). That was his town where he sent his eldest servant to go and get wife for Isaac (Genesis 24:1-4). He lived in Canaan (Gen. 24:3). Sarah lived in Canaan (Gen. 23:2). This shows Abraham was living with his legitimate wife in Israel.

Therefore it is not true that the black stone was sent to Abraham in Arabia. He was not there. The black stone was a 'marker' of the Arabian 'god' - Abdulai's and Muhammad's Allah.

Abraham was a Jew. The Jews are his descendants (seeds) practising his religion (John 8:31-33, John 8:37).





W

Gen 11:31
And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there.

So abraham who was born in Ur of Chaldes could not have been a jew.

Firstly, because Ur of Chaldes was in Mesopotamia, which is now a part of Iraq. He was then more arab than jews.

Secondly the name jew came after the existence of judah, the great-granson of Abraham. Read further, gen 12:4-5.

So abraham emigrated to Canaan at the age of 75 and Bible clearly mentioned that he was there a stranger in
Gen 17:8
 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Read Gen 14:13
And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram.

How can u call Abraham a Jew, read gen 32:28 what happened to the name of Jacob after wrestling with angel.

Gen 32:28
And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

The descendants of Jacob were Isrealites consisting of the 12 tribes. Judah was nicknamed "jew" so that only Judah's descendant were called Jews originally.

To know who Moses really was, Read Exodus 6:16-20

So Moses was not a Jew because he was not descendant from Judah but a Levite. Moses was the "law-giver" (Torah is law) to the children of Isreal.

We are using Holy Quran as a standard. You can explain the Bible and correct the Jewish and Christian prejudice with context of the Quran. It is the last revealed Book which has never been corrupted or adulterated. Its contents has been guaranteed by Allah in
Surah 2:2
This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;

and also Q15:9
We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).

In Surah 3:65
Ye People of the Book! Why dispute ye about Abraham, when the Law and the Gospel Were not revealed Till after him? Have ye no understanding?

And in Q3:67
Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.

and Q2:140
Or do ye say that Abraham, Isma'il Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Do ye know better than Allah? Ah! who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah? but Allah is not unmindful of what ye do!


Of course they were not jews or Christians as the name Jews came after Judah and the name Christians came long after Jesus had left.

truthman2012: @ayenny02

You said Allah sent the black stone to Abraham and Ishmael to determine the location of where His house would be built. This is one of the confusions we find in the Quran.

Abraham was an Israelite, a Jew. His wife was Sharrah and they had a maid, an Egyptian named Hagai. God promised Abraham that he was going to have a child of covenant and many other children.

When God's promise tarried, Sarrah lost faith and advised Abraham to go into their maid, Hagai in order to have a child. The result was the birth of Ishmael. Not long after, Sarrah too had the promised child, Isaac.

Sarrah, after having her own son told Abraham to drive away Ishmael and his mother. When Abraham was reluctant, God intervened and ordered Abraham to do exactly so. That led to the sending away of Ishmael from Abraham's family.

So, Ishmael and his mother left Abraham family in Israel and they settled in Arabia.

Abraham lived all his live with his legitimate family in Israel. He never abandoned them and migrated to Arabia. He could not have left the promised child and his legitimate wife and live with Ishmael, who God approved his casting away. Otherwise he (Abraham) would be acting against God's instruction, which he never did.

Therefore, how would God send the black stone to Abraham in Arabia when he was not there? How would God choose Arabia, where the cast-out child was living to build His house and not Israel where God's approved family was living?

The above is a proof that Kaaba was not built by Abraham. It was built by idol worshipers, which was incorporated into islam.

Before I can answer ur question, pls can you prove to me that Abraham is a jew and back ur statement with authoritative proof because God saia in Quran that;
Then Allah Almighty says the truth about Ibrahim that he was not a Jew or a Christian, but a “Muslim” submitting to the Will of Allah: “Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian; rather he was an upright man who had surrendered to Allah (Muslim), and he was not of the idolaters.”(Al `Imran: 67)”

I need proof from u how abraham was a jews

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Do Muslims worship the Kaaba?

Let us see what the Quran has to say about the Ka’abah:

The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka: Full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings. (Al Quran 3:96-97)

So the Ka’abah was the first Mosque and PLACE OF WORSHIP for the Muslims. A place to worship the one true God.

And [mention, O Muhammad], when We designated for Abraham the site of the House, [saying], "Do not associate anything with Me and purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who stand [in prayer] and those who bow and prostrate. (Al Quran 22:26)

The above verse clarifies that Ka’abah is not a place for worshipping idols. In fact when the Ka’abah came back into the hands of the Muslims, the Muslims made sure to get rid of all the idols and idolatry that had been imposed on it by the pagans. Thus saying that “Muslims worship the Ka’abah as an idol” is clearly the most absurd thing ever pronounced in the history of mankind.

We face THE DIRECTION of the Ka’abah during the prayers because Allah (swt) directs us to do so. How in the world does it prove Idol worship?

a) It is mentioned in Surah Baqarah:

"We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens: now shall We turn thee to a Qiblah (direction) that shall please thee. Turn then thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque: wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction."
[Al-Qur’an 2:144]

The above verse was revealed 2 years after Hijrah. And until then (i.e. for almost 15 years), the Muslims prayed in the direction of Bait al Muqaddas in Jerusalem. This fact tells us that turning to Ka’abah does not mean worshipping it, but it was only a direction for prayer, similar to that of the mosque in Jerusalem.

b) “And to Allah belongs the East and the West. So wherever you [might] turn, there is the Face of Allah. Indeed, Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.” [Al-Quran 2:115]
 
c “Let them worship the Lord of this House, Who has fed them, [saving them] from hunger and made them safe, [saving them] from fear. [Al-Quran 106:3-4]

Question3: In any culture of the world including Arab's, people kiss what is so dear to them. Kissing is a sign of love and affection. Why would Muhammad kiss the black stone that is of no significance? Why did he so fall in love with it?


ANSWER:
While Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him kissed the stone before, because it was chosen by Allah Almighty to descend on earth to determine the location of the Kaaba, but that still doesn't make it anything holy.

While there are traditions about kissing or touching the Stone, its real significance is as marker of the point at which one starts the Tawaaf (circumambulation of the Kaaba as part of hajj or omra.)  Even the traditions which talk about kissing or touching the stone are VERY CLEAR that the Stone is JUST A STONE!

Narrated 'Abis bin Rabia:  Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said "NO DOUBT, I KNOW THAT YOU ARE A STONE AND CAN NEITHER BENEFIT ANYONE NOR HARM ANYONE. Had I not seen Allah's Apostle kissing you I would not have kissed you." (Bukhari)


Conclusion:
As I demonstrated and proved above, Islam and the Prophets are far from promoting any form of idol worship. You must never confuse or mix the Worship of GOD Almighty with the worship of man-made idols.

Question2a) The impression you created is that the black stone is not so important in islam. Then, why would Allah send something that was not of serious essence?
(b) What is the purpose for Allah sending the black stone?


ANSWER:
The Stone is not be worshipped or regarded as anything but a marker.
The Black Stone has had an interesting history during the Islamic period.  In 930 AD a ruler of Bahrain - who belonged to a branch of Ismailism known as the Karmatians - sacked Makkah and carried the Black Stone away for some 70 years until it was ransomed.

In the process, the Black Stone was cracked. It is now held together by a silver band.   The fact that Islam was able to function without the Black Stone for 70 years is one of the best illustrations that it is but a marker for Tawaaf - and NOT an object of worship

B) the purpose for Allah sending the black stone is to determine the exact location of where His House was going to be built by Abraham and his son Ishmael, peace be upon them.

truthman2012: @ ayenny02

Thanks for your detailed explanations without any word of abuse.

May I ask you some questions. I hope you will not ignore them which is usually the case when muslims on NL cannot defend their faith and not ready to repent. Most times they hide or delete such threads. Skeleton in the cupboard.

1. When did Allah send the black stone - was it pre-islamic period or during Muhammad's time? Your answer to this will go a long way how sincere you are.

2. (a) The impression you created is that the black stone is not so important in islam. Then, why would Allah send something that was not of serious essence?

(b) What is the purpose for Allah sending the black stone?

3. In any culture of the world including Arab's, people kiss what is so dear to them. Kissing is a sign of love and affection. Why would Muhammad kiss the black stone that is of no significance? Why did he so fall in love with it?

Please be brief as much as possible as lengthy write-up is boring.

Question1.: When did Allah send the black stone - was it pre-islamic period or during Muhammad's time? Your answer to this will go a long way how sincere you are.

ANSWER:
The black stone is nothing but a Heavenly object (an asteroid) that GOD Almighty descended on earth to determine the exact location of where His House was going to be built by Abraham and his son Ishmael, peace be upon them. We believe that Prophets Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaaba.  Western Scientists have confirmed that the black stone, which resides near the Kaaba in the Holy City of Mecca, is an outside METEORITE OBJECT!

[quote author=truthman2012][/quote]The black stone (al-Hajar al-Aswan) represents the image of Allah is another blasphemous statement from anti-islam against Allah, the true God. To all muslims, Allah the Almighty has no image, object or shadow that represents His Being on surface of the earth.

The black stone is never worshipped by anybody, muslims or idolaters. No muslims historian counted it as one of the Arabian Idols. It is just part of islamic symbols which deserves respect from the pious.

The black stone is a stone that was brought from the heaven to the earth, it is there inserted in the structure of the Kabba and surrounded with silver frame.

Ibn `Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “The Black Stone came down from Jannah (Paradise).” (At-Tirmidhi) The hadith is graded as Sahih/Hasan (authentic-good) by Tirmidhi.

The English Geographical association planned to study it, so it asked an English man by the name Richard Francis Burton to travel among the Egyptian pilgrims ,disguising himself in Arabian clothes, His task was to steal a piece from the black stone and he succeeded in stealing three pieces of the black stone which is now preserved in the English Museum in London. When the English scientists studied these pieces, to their amazement, they discovered that these pieces have different chemical structure from meteors and the final conclusion was that this piece is not from even our solar system, it is even different from all the aerolite that found on the earth.

The English traveler embraced Islam and authored a book under the title" My Journey to Mekka"

a)      Firstly, Black stone is certainly divine and was sent down to earth. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) kissed it as a sign of reverence and honour of the symbol of Allah (swt) as explained in the Quran [22:32 ] “And whoever honors the symbols [i.e., rites] of Allah – indeed, it is from the piety of hearts.”

Thus, muslims are allowed to kiss it anytime, not necessarily during Hajj or Umrah pilgrimage. The kissing is mere kissing in emulation of the prophet (saw) neither for seeking fortune nor for escaping from misfortunes. In this regard, it was reported on the authority of Bukhar from Umar bin Kattaab (may Allah be pleased with him). "Umar kissed the sacred Black stone and said;
"I swear by Allah, surely I known that you are a stone, you can't cause any harm nor can you give any benefit. Had it not been that I saw the Messenger of Allah kissing you, I would not have kissed you".

B) Assuming that the Black Stone is missing for one reason or another, does it render the Tawaf and Pilgrimage invalid and void on such account? Absolutely not. This is exactly what has already happened in the history of Islam. The Karamathians (Arabic: al-Qaramitah), the most un-islamic sect in Islam, had removed the Black Stone during their mad merrymaking in the year 317 AH/980 AD. They carried it away with them to their territory in Al-Ahsa (in the Arabian Gulf). After keeping it there for twenty years, they had returned it back to Makkah in the year 339 AH (see shorter Encyclopedia Leiden 1953, P. 219). In such an event, the Shariah (Law) maintains that the pilgrim shall perform his Tawaf without the Black stone. Instead of the Black Stone, the pilgrim shall touch its place at the corner of the Ka’abah, or point at its spot, and continue his Tawaf. Thus the total absence of the Stone itself makes no difference in the validity of the Tawaf and the Pilgrimage.

If a person decides to perform salaat on the roof of the Ka’abah, the Salaat will be valid. Therefore had we worshipped the Ka’abah then Salaat performed above it would be incorrect; because firstly, the thing worshipped must appear in front and secondly, it is utterly disrespectful and disgraceful to the thing worshipped by standing on top of it.


CONCLUSION
Idol worship means the worship of idols or images that are not God. Ka’aba is a Masjid. The Black Stone is neither an idol nor a representation of God. Whereas, in Islam, Muslims worship one, true Almighty God.  We request our anti-islam brothers and sisters to embrace true monotheism which is free of all polytheistic practices

[quote author=truthman2012][/quote]Your statement is a fallacy. Thus, it lacks an authoritative reference. It is those anti-islam themselves that inserted the noblest name "Allah" into the names of the Arabian gods

Allah the almighty is an idol in the common sense of you as clearly shown in the above statement from truthmann2012. If all christians agree with him, then all of them, have agreed that Jesus christ is a son of an idol. This is confirmed in the Arabic translation of John 3:16.
The point of interest in the Arabic translation of John3:16 is that THE CHRISTIANS TRANSLATED GOD INTO ALLAH. Then is ALLAH an idol or God?

However, Allah the true God is not an idol. Also Jesus Christ (AS) is neither the Lord nor son of Allah. He is nothing but a son of Mary and a Prophet of Allah.

"Allah" was NOT "one of the gods" of the pre-Islamic Arabs, but was recognised by them as the supreme, abstract God. There was no idol which they called "Allah". The Quran quotes the idol-worshippers as presenting the argument that:

"We worship them (i.e. the idols) only so that they may bring us nearer to Allah." (39:3)

So, if any pagan Arab names his son Abdul-llah, it is not because he worship Allah, nor does it mean that such parent believes in Allah. But the pagan Arabs do so, because "Allah" is part of their vocabulary as Supreme God.
Here are some names which have nothing to do with either religion or worship; Abdul-ddaar "servant of the house", Abdu-Qaes "servant of Qaes", Abdu-ttabik "servant of the cook", Abdu-l-kilaal "servant of kilaal", Abdu-l-Hind "servant of Hind", Abdu-l-Asad "servant of the lion". All these names are in "Ansaabul-l-Ashraaf"

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deSika: obviously you dont understand my op.
the op seeks to find out where Each prophet did the five pillars. keyword: EACH. YOU are showing where one does one pillar. do you know that there are non muslims who do one pillar could they be said to be muslims as they dont regard Allah and Muhammad but they fast. they give charity etc

Don't dodge my question

TELL ME NOW, ALL THOSE THAT I MENTIONED ABOVE WAS IT NOT IN BIBLE AND HOW MANY CHRISTIANS OR JEWS PERFORME THIS?



FROM UR EXPLANATION, PLS TELL ME WHERE THE BIBLE CALLED THEM CHRISTIANS OR JEW THOSE WHO PERFOMED WHAT U HAVE JUST EXPLAINED S?

deSika: now lets go to the bible to see if there is any record of how early muslims worshiped their Allah
yea bro, thanks for answering them but we have to do a little reasoning to know if your answers are correct. so lets begin



#first of all i would like to show you what you are doing. you are picking single points from different places in the bible to prove your points. you pick shadadah from Jesus statement then jump over to exodus to pick solat and then jump over to Nehemiah a different person entirely to pick fasting. i was just wondering if you could settle down and show me where for example Adam did the five pillars or you pick Moses or Jesus and show where he did all the five pillars.
NOW GET THIS: WHERE YOU CANNOT DO THE ABOVE. THEN AM AFRAID TO TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT MAKING ANY PROGRESS AS YOU CAN NOT SHOW WHERE FOR EXAMPLE JESUS DID ALL FIVE OF THE PILLARS.




in mark 12:29 Jesus said there is one God. in Mark 13:1 Jesus goes to a temple. do you mind telling me whether muslims go to a temple. pls note that a temple has a priest and levites and no imams. they make use of burnt offerings, bread, arks, burnt offerinngs etc. people who worship in a temple do not pray towards Kabba. NOW TELL ME WHEN DID A MUSLIM START ATTENDING A TEMPLE WHERE THE ABOVE THINGS ARE USED.
[ONCE you can answer this question men then you would have proven a point]

do you know what. Lets go to nehemiah 8:2 it reads 'and Ezra the PRIEST brought the law before the congregation' BROTHER CAN YOU TELL ME HOW PRIESTS ARE MUSLIMS. Now do muslims read the law of muslims. No. So my friend what are you actually saying. What makes Priest Ezra to be a muslim. If Priest Ezra read the law of Moses and was a muslim then i put it to you thatt you are not a muslim as you dont read the law of Moses in your mosques rather you castigate that same law to have been corrupted

Matt 26:39
And he went a little farther and fell on his face and prayed saying O my father.

Now my friend be honest to yourself and answer this question. The Allah dat muslims worship is he a father. No bro. Allah does not beget so how can a man who prays to father God be a muslim. Your points are not even helping you. You need to think before you make posts.

That verse talks about people casting money into a treasury. Do you know what. All churches all over the world does this same thing. So i guess we can call these church people muslims becos as it is they do this same casting money thing. I think i just learnt something now and that is ALL CHURCH PEOPLE ARE MUSLIMS AS THEY CAST MONEY INTO TREASURY. The only way yu can help yursef here is if you can show me where these same people where engaging the other pillars. But for nnow fowl fowl fowl fowllll
the same as above bro. If only fasting qualifies Jeremiah to be a muslim then i can tell you that all the folks at mountain of fire church are muslims. This is getting really good
isaiah 2:3....come ye let us go up to the MOUNTAIN OF THE LORD to the house of the God of Jacob.......for out of Zion shall go forth the law and the word of the Lord from JERUSALEM. Lets rewind back to verse one: The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning JUDAH and JERUSALEM.

My bro the mountain that nations would go to is not Mecca but JERUSALEM as is clearly seen above.
And one begins to wonder that if a jew becomes a muslim he would have to go to Mecca and clearly disobey this verse. What else could you call leading astray but this.

Guess yu thought i wud take all you said and not go back to verify for my self. Now am not that zombie-ish.

#bro those your examples failed woefully. In mtns voice 'your points are not sensible pls try again later
Now'

let me ask you again.CAN SOMEONE WHO ENGAGES ONE PILLAR OF ISLAM BE SAID TO BE A MUSLIM
[note: some church people just finished a 1 week fasting and prayer programme can i call them muslims]

FROM UR EXPLANATION, PLS TELL ME WHERE THE BIBLE CALLED THEM CHRISTIANS OR JEW THOSE WHO PERFOMED WHAT U HAVE JUST EXPLAINED S?

Back ur answer with reference from bible

deSika: as it stands bro. those examples cannot be said to be muslims
because they worship their God in a quite differernt way as muslims do.

therefore i can safely conclude that there were no muslims in the bible

now if there were no muslims in the bible and no muslims in saudi arabia before Muhammad then i think its safe for me to conclude that there were no muslims before Muhammad.

and therefore the statement that Moses, Adam and co were muslim prophets is a blatant lie. now if the quran makes this claim it also therefore means that the quran is a liar of a book.



its still deSika......seeking truth

I can now see your level of reason, here we go again;

5 pillars of Islam in the Bible


1. To testify that none has the right to be worshipped but God and Muhammad is Allah's Apostle.

2. To offer the (compulsory congregational) prayers dutifully and perfectly.

3. To pay Zakat (i.e. obligatory charity) .

4. To perform Hajj. (i.e. Pilgrimage to Mecca)

5. To observe fast during the month of Ramadan.


The same 5 pillars of Islam exist in the Bible.

1.“To Testify that none has the right to be worshipped but God

28One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"

29"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one 30.Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.(Mark 12:28-30)

“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3)

“Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only” (Mathew 4:10)

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:” (Deuteronomy 6:4)



2. To offer the (compulsory congregational) prayers dutifully and perfectly.

The most important part of the prayer is prostration. We put our forehead on the ground and say “Subhan-e-Rabi al A’ala” which means “Glory be to the Lord who is Most High”. All the Prophets of God did the prostration before the Almighty INCLUDING JESUS (pbuh). The Bible says

And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying…(Genesis 17:3)

And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto them (Numbers 20:6)

And he (Jesus) went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, (Mathew 26:39)

There is no better way of falling on the face and praying to God then the Muslims do. This is how we Muslims pray by falling on the face.

Nehemiah 8:4-6
4 And Ezra the scribe stood upon a pulpit of wood, which they had made for the purpose; and beside him stood Mattithiah, and Shema, and Anaiah, and Urijah, and Hilkiah, and Maaseiah, on his right hand; and on his left hand, Pedaiah, and Mishael, and Malchiah, and Hashum, and Hashbadana, Zechariah, and Meshullam.

5 And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people; (for he was above all the people and when he opened it, all the people stood up:

6 And Ezra blessed the Lord, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the Lord with their faces to the ground.


(MY QUESTION FOR YOU, HOW MANY CHRISTIAN OR JEWS PERFORME THIS?)



3. To pay Zakat (i.e. obligatory charity) .

Its 2.5% on wealth that is above the nisab level i.e. 85 grams of gold. The reason for the Zaka’at the Quran gives is, so that the wealth does not circulate only among the rich people (Quran 59:7)

The Bible says
“2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,” (Mathew 6:2-3)

“And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.” (I Peter 4:


4. To perform Hajj. (i.e. Pilgrimage to Mecca)
Every adult Muslim who is healthy and can afford it is obliged to perform the pilgrimage to the Holy city of Mecca atleast once in his life time. It’s the best example of universal brotherhood in the world where nearly 3 million people gather together and men are dressed up in two peaces of unsown cloth preferably white. One cannot identify the person standing next to him whether he is a king or a pauper, master or a servant. It’s the best practical example of universal brotherhood. The mention of Mecca is also there in the Bible.


“5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you, who have set their hearts on pilgrimage. 6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools.” (Psalms 84:5-6)

(MY QUESTION FOR YOU, HOW MANY CHRISTIAN OR JEWS PERFORME THIS?)


Baca is another name for Mecca in the Qur’an
“The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka” (Quran 3:96)

5. To observe fast during the month of Ramadan.
A Muslim is obliged to fast for one whole month of Ramadan from sunrise to sunset. The Quran says

“O ye who believe! Fasting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you, that ye may (learn) self-restraint,-“ (Quran 2:183)

The purpose of fasting is to create self-restraint and piety and get the human being closer to Almighty God. Jesus Christ also fasted and commanded to do so.

“And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.” (Mathew 4:2)

“16"When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 17But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, 18so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.” (Mathew 6:16-


TELL ME NOW, ALL THOSE THAT I MENTIONED ABOVE WAS IT NOT IN BIBLE AND HOW MANY CHRISTIANS OR JEWS PERFORME THIS?

ifeness: [al-Hijr 15:19] And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.

Since the Quran is the word of God, then this is the information that god spoke to mohammed.

Since we know without a doubt that the Earth is not flat, does this mean god is wrong? Or is this the writings of a delusional man that ended up being a religion?

Response:

Firstly the next verse to the above verse is
Question refers to a verse from the Qur’an in Surah Nuh:

"And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out)." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 71, Verse 19
But the sentence in the above verse is not complete. It continues in the next verse, explaining the previous verse. It says: "That ye may go about therein, in spacious roads." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 71, Verse 20

Earth has been spread out :
Similarly, the Qur’an says in several verses that the earth has been spread out.
"And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: how excellently We do spread out!"
The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 51, Verse 48

Similarly the Qur’an also mentions in several other verses that the earth is an expanse:

"Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse. And the mountains as pegs?"
The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 78, Verse 6-7

None of these verses of the Qur’an contain even the slightest implication that the earth is flat. It only indicates that the earth is spacious and the reason for this spaciousness of the earth is mentioned. The Glorious Qur’an says:
"O My servants who believe! truly. spacious is My Earth: therefore serve ye Me –(And Me alone)!"
The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 29, Verse 56
Therefore none can give the excuse, that he could not do good and was forced to do evil because of the surroundings and circumstances.

Moreover, for clearance:
There are many verses in Quran stating that Allah has spread the earth like carpet. "Carpet" the arabic word use in these verse are
"mahdan" , "madad"
Which means : reach , elongate , extend , draw out , lengthen, stretch out , spread out , outstretch , pervade , lengthen, flatten , smoothen , smooth , level ,

More for  confirmation:
Earh is egg-shape (gesographical) proofed by Quran itself:
Earth is geospherical in shape
The Qur’an mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse:
"And we have made the earth egg shaped".
The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 79, Verse 30
The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth. And approved by science.

Meaning Of Gesopherical : http://www.thefreedictionary.com/geosphere
Earth's crust - the outer layer of the Earth, OR Layer, Earth, Globe, Earth Surface.

A Look on Surah 79:30
"And after that He spread the earth."

Spread out does not mean flat. If you read the verses from the beginning of the Surah you'll see that it refers to the size of the earth as being large enough that it appears flat, there's no confusion about this whether you read it in Arabic or in English.

Glaring,Confusing,Disturbing And Heart-aching Contradictions In The Bible

The sins of the father
ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Who is the father of Joseph?
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

Which was first--beasts or man?
GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

The Righteous live?
PSA 92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."
ISA 57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."

Jesus' first sermon-on the plain or mount?
MAT 5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying, "

LUK 6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people, came to hear him, And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said, "


Who Moved David to anger?
II SAMUEL 24: And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
I CHRONICLES 21: And SATAN stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Does God Tempts or Not?
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." (GEN 22:1)
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (JAS 1:13)

How Did Judas die?
"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (MAT 27:5)
"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (ACT 1:18)

Does every man sin?
ECC 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

JO1 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Who bears guilt?
GAL 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
GAL 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

Do you answer a fool?
PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.


Did those with Saul/Paul at his conversion hear a voice?
ACT 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
ACT 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me

sakaguchi: Muslims can start by explaining that a sorcerer cast a spell on Mohammed meanwhile on seeing Jesus christ, evil spirit flee.

I don't know why u people just fabricated story just to support ur statement. You lack authoritative references

zig2ryme04: SO WHO WAS ALLAH?
The word ALLAH is SINGULAR, and this name is NEVER mentioned in the authentic account of creation, whereas ELOHIM, the CREATOR of the univers, is PLURAL.
This fact aloneestablishes a clear distinction between GOD and ALLAH. As Muslims recite the 99 names for their god on the string of 99 prayer beads, the name for the True God is missing; LOVE - ''GOD IS LOVE'',
This create another clear distinction between GOD and ALLAH.
Muhammad is said to have stated that whoever called upon GOD by that exalted 100th name would recieve all his desires.
It was LOVE that brought Jesus from HEAVEN to the CROSS taking God's judgement on sin, so that ALL who call upon His Name recieves His forgiveness and go free.
THE CRESCENT MOON
Why is the significant of the Crescent so prominent on all mosques and national flags? It is the symbol of the MOON GOD going back thousands of years.
ALLAH was the MOON GOD, the presiding deity amongst the gods that were worshipped in Arabia and in the East. How long this worship of the MOON GOD goes back we dont know, but HIS symbol, the CRESCENT MOON, was worn by the descendants of ISHMAEL, well over 3000 years ago.
In Judges 8 we read where Gideon had great victory over an invading army of ISHMAELITES from the East ( These were descendants of ISHMAEL, born to Abraham through his Egyptian servant girl about 600 years earlier.)
These were wealthy men , and amongst the the gold ornaments Gideon's men gathered from the slain were ''the CRESCENTS that were on their camel's necks''.
Their Kings also wore the GOLD CRESCENTS. (8:21,26)
The CRESCENT obviously was their NATIONAL, and problably RELIGIOUS emblem worn into battle as a lucky charm.
These Ishmaelites were wealthy merchants, (verse 24) and slave traders as we see in Genesis 37:23-28 where they bought Joseph from his brothers and sold him to Egypt.
The FAST OF RAMADAN, the ninth month, in which Muslims are forbidden to eat or drink anything between Sunrise and Sunset, is closely associated with the MOON. It starts with the Crescent of the New Moon, and ends wit h the final Crescent at the end of the month.
Often through the Bible we read how that under bad leadership, the Isrealites turned from worship of the TRUE GOD and adopted the practice of the heathen around them, and is Isa.3:18 we see an example of how about 500 years after Gideon's victory, the CRESCENT had become an ornament of pride amongst the Isrealite women, but God disapproved and said that amongstf their other ornaments, he would ''take away the CRESCENTS''.
This creates difficult questions for Muslims. Why does the Moon figure so prominently in Islamic religion and practice?
The answer is that since ALLAH THE MOON GOD, the god of Ishmaelites was already being worshipped in Mecca, and Mohammad was a descendant of Ishmael, it was natural to continue with Allah as the god of the new religion, and to maintain THE CRESCENT as his EMBLEM, as it is in the Muslim religion and politics to this day.
We will see thar in spiritual matters there is so wide a gulf between the two Christian leaders and Muslim sharing pulpits is, as JESUS, said ''They are blind leaders of the blind, and if the BLIND lead the BLIND both will fall into a pit''

Don't say what u can't prove OLODO!
Whoever worships Allah must be a muslim. The noblest name "Allah" is not uncommon among the arabian pagans. It is in their vocabulary. It is a name know to them since Prophet Adam (AS) was on the surface of land. More precisely, the Arabian pagans have fake ideas about Islam before the advent of the Prophet Muhammad (saw). This is so because Prophet Ismail (as), the father of the Arabs was a Muslim by religion.



The following is from The state of Assyria Aramaic web site.  When you visit their site, click on "Search" at the top blue bar, then click on the "Search Aramaic Lexicon (online directory" link, then type in "God" and click on "English word" radio button.

Word: hl0
Lexeme: 0hl0
Root: hl0
Word Number: 904
Meaning: God
Pronunciation: (Eastern) AaLaH
(Western) AaLoH
Part of Speech: Noun
Gender: Masculine
Person:
Number: Singular
State: Absolute

Lexicon
Word: 0hl0
Lexeme: 0hl0
Root: hl0
Word Number: 905
Meaning: God
Pronunciation: (Eastern) AaLaHaA
(Western) AaLoHoA
Part of Speech: Noun
Gender: Masculine
Person:
Number: Singular
State: Emphatic


Few points to learn:

1- In the case of "Aalah" or "Aaloh" Aramaic slang pronounciation, it is almost the same as the "Allah" or "Allawh" Arabic slang pronounciation.

2- In the case of "Aalahaa" or "Aalohaa" Aramaic slang pronounciation, it is also almost the same as the "Allaha" or "Allawha" in the Arabic slang pronounciation.  "Allah" would be pronounced as "Allaha" or "Allaha" in Arabic if it's used in the middle of the sentence.  It can also be pronounced as "Allahi" or "Allahu" or "Allaho" depending on the grammar of the sentence.

3- The Hebew word "Elohim" is the plural of "Elowah", which is derived from the Aramaic word "Alaha", or "Elahh"; the same as the Arabic word "Allah" or "Allawh" in pronunciation.

As I mentioned above, by the way, the two "l"s in "Allah" are written in Arabic as one "l".  In Arabic, if the letter is pronounced twice after each others such as the "m" in "Muhammad", then it is written only once, and a special punctuation called "al-shaddah" is applied on the top of the letter to indicate that it is a double pronunciation.  So the point is, the Arabic "Allah" is written with one "l" and not two "l"s.  Perhaps the old Aramaic thousands of years ago was like that too, and maybe that's why "Allah" is written with one "l" in Aramaic ("Aalah" and not "Aallah" or "Allah"

zig2ryme04: DIFFERENT BETWEEN THE CHRISTIAN'S GOD AND THE MUSLIM'S GOD.
There is no connection whatsoeverbetween the two.
The God that Christians worship is the one and only Eternal God who is ''From Everlasting to Everlasting''; He is the CREATOR ,not only of this earth and everything in it, but of the universes stretching out into infinity.
He is the SOLE AUTHORITY, and He has no equal.
You can reject God and His Word, but that doesnt alter ther truth, and anly adds to your own eternal loss.
WHAT IS GOS'S NAME? When Moses asked this question at the burning bush, the answer God gave his was, ''I AM THAT I AM''. (Exodus 3:13,14).
A name indicating the unsearchableness of God''. (Young). This name covers and includes every other name by which different attributes of GOD are named in the Bible. For example: The Hebrew word for God in Genesis 1:1 is ELOHIM, and is thus used over 2500 times in the Old Testament. It is a PLURAL word as expressed in Gen. 1:26, ''God said let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness''.
This is repeated in Gen. 3:22 '' The Lord God said, the man is become as ONE OF US''. (note, the relationship between man and God was distance after ADAM fell in the garden)
This is clearly defined all through the Bible, especially in the New Testament, as FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT, three individuals in the GODHEAD: ONE GOD in all His operations.
Because they cannot accept the truth of the WORD OF GOD in the Bible, Muslim leaders teach from this that Christians worship three gods. Even man himself is a three-fold being, as is clearly stated by Apostle Paul in 1Thessalonians:5:23
I insert it here in hope that it may cause some to think and not just accept the doctrines of men.
Jesus used this same name, ''I AM''.
Another name given 6,855 times in the Hebrew Bible is YHVH, pronounced YHWH. In English Bibles this name is written LORD.
JEHOVAH is another word often used in translating an original Hebrew name for God.
The word ''ALLAH'' has no connection in all this and has no relationship with the GREAT ''I AM''

SO WHO WAS ALLAH?...
I will explain on my next post...

Sorry u don't know anythin let me explain to u
Whoever worships Allah must be a muslim. The noblest name "Allah" is not uncommon among the arabian pagans. It is in their vocabulary. It is a name know to them since Prophet Adam (AS) was on the surface of land. More precisely, the Arabian pagans have fake ideas about Islam before the advent of the Prophet Muhammad (saw). This is so because Prophet Ismail (as), the father of the Arabs was a Muslim by religion.



The following is from The state of Assyria Aramaic web site.  When you visit their site, click on "Search" at the top blue bar, then click on the "Search Aramaic Lexicon (online directory" link, then type in "God" and click on "English word" radio button.

Word: hl0
Lexeme: 0hl0
Root: hl0
Word Number: 904
Meaning: God
Pronunciation: (Eastern) AaLaH
(Western) AaLoH
Part of Speech: Noun
Gender: Masculine
Person:
Number: Singular
State: Absolute

Lexicon
Word: 0hl0
Lexeme: 0hl0
Root: hl0
Word Number: 905
Meaning: God
Pronunciation: (Eastern) AaLaHaA
(Western) AaLoHoA
Part of Speech: Noun
Gender: Masculine
Person:
Number: Singular
State: Emphatic


Few points to learn:

1- In the case of "Aalah" or "Aaloh" Aramaic slang pronounciation, it is almost the same as the "Allah" or "Allawh" Arabic slang pronounciation.

2- In the case of "Aalahaa" or "Aalohaa" Aramaic slang pronounciation, it is also almost the same as the "Allaha" or "Allawha" in the Arabic slang pronounciation.  "Allah" would be pronounced as "Allaha" or "Allaha" in Arabic if it's used in the middle of the sentence.  It can also be pronounced as "Allahi" or "Allahu" or "Allaho" depending on the grammar of the sentence.

3- The Hebew word "Elohim" is the plural of "Elowah", which is derived from the Aramaic word "Alaha", or "Elahh"; the same as the Arabic word "Allah" or "Allawh" in pronunciation.

As I mentioned above, by the way, the two "l"s in "Allah" are written in Arabic as one "l".  In Arabic, if the letter is pronounced twice after each others such as the "m" in "Muhammad", then it is written only once, and a special punctuation called "al-shaddah" is applied on the top of the letter to indicate that it is a double pronunciation.  So the point is, the Arabic "Allah" is written with one "l" and not two "l"s.  Perhaps the old Aramaic thousands of years ago was like that too, and maybe that's why "Allah" is written with one "l" in Aramaic ("Aalah" and not "Aallah" or "Allah"

Mintayo: another reason i cnt accept islam.

he cannot do that now(you will only find that in the hadiths writtten by mo's 'slaves')...you want the quran to expose Mo?
The Bible is so complete,it shows us pre-Jesus era,gave us what we shld be expecting during the time when Jesus our saviour will come-nothing that will happen in the NT to Jesus that did not happen as a shadow in the OT.
The Bible is a miracle,written by over 30 ppl inspired by God in different locations,over a period spanning more than 2000years,yet their is consistenc in their work despite the fact that they did not collaborate-such a miracle.
For instance,one difference between the Bible n the quran is the story of ishmael and Isaac.
Moh copied and change d name to ismael,the father of Arabs,but the Bible said it was Isaac(even the NT confirmed that);it was in the NT that we knew it dt it was nt just a story as moh mistook it to be(bcus it has a meaning,GOD knows what he was doing); just like Isaac was sacrificed by Abraham,that was how God will sacrifice his own son; Jesus-just like isaac carried his own cross(wood) up the mount moriah,that is how Jesus will carry His own cross(wood) up a mount(calvary). The bible is so consistent,not a story book of moral or (recitation for terrorists)-it is the life of Jesus-from the OT to the NT(the salvation which God has provided for the whole world).
Same thing goes for cain and abel too.

Jesus loves you.

May be u forgot those contradiction in ur bible

ARE U SURE THAT THE BIBLE IS HOLY (YES or NO)

1a). 2 Samuel 24:1
24 And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

1b). 1 Chronicles 21:1
21 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

QUESTION------( is lord of david then satan)


2a). 2 Samuel 8:4
4 And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven hundred horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen: and David houghed all the chariot horses, but reserved of them for an hundred chariots.

2b). 1 Chronicles 18:4
4 And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven thousand horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen: David also houghed all the chariot horses, but reserved of them an hundred chariots.

QUESTION--(seven hundred OR seven thousand)


3a). 2 Samuel 10:18
18 And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand horsemen, and smote Shobach the captain of their host, who died there.

3b). 1 Chronicles 19:18
18 But the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand men which fought in chariots, and forty thousand footmen, and killed Shophach the captain of the host.

QUESTION--(seven hundred chariots OR seven thousand men? Forty thousand horsemen OR footmen? Shobach OR shophach)


4a). 2 Kings 8:26
26 Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel

4b). 2 Chronicles 22:2
2 Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.

QUESTION---( twenty two OR forty two years)


5a). 2 Kings 24:8
8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.

5b). 2 Chronicles 36:9
9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the Lord.

QUESTION---(eighteen yrs OR eight yrs? Three mths OR three mths and ten days)


FROM NEW TESTAMENT

1a). John 5:37
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

1b). John 14:9
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?


2a). John 5:31
31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

2b). John 8:14
14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.


ARE U SURE THAT THE BIBLE IS HOLY (YES or NO)

[quote author=Mintayo][/quote]See how paul contradict jesus

Paul says:
1Cor.5
[7] For Christ, our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed.
Eph.5
[2] And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.


Jesus says:
Matt.9
[13] Go and learn what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.'


Salvation
According to Jesus:  The rich young ruler asked Jesus how he could find salvation. Jesus answered, "Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments ,  If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me." (Matt 19:16-21, Mark 10:17-21, Luke 18:18-22, KJV) In other words, obey Torah, and follow Jesus' examples.
According to Paul:  “That if you confess with your mouth Jesus {as} Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.” (Rom 10:9-10, NAS)
Which is it?  Obeying the commandments of G-d and following Jesus, or merely believing in Jesus’ resurrection and confessing him as Lord?


Eating meat sacrificed to idols
It’s okay to do so according to Paul (1 Corinthians 8 ).  But Jesus condemns the act, as well as those who teach folk to do so (Revelation 2:14, 20).
I've heard some try to resolve this by saying Jesus taught old covenant law because he lived under the law, but after his death and resurrection we are now under the new covenant.  If that's true, and he knew it would be true (and he should have known if he is G-d, right?) then why did he never mention this?  Why didn't he say to the young man, "For now, obey the commandments, but after I'm raised from the dead, keep your fortune and don't worry about the commandments, because you won't be required to keep them."?  He never said this to anyone, nor anything like this, not once in the three and one-half years he spent preaching, by both sermon and example, to live the Law given through Moses.


On the time of the coming of the Lord:
Paul says:
Rom.13
[12] the night is far gone, the day is at hand.
Jesus says:
Luke.21
[8] Take heed that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name,
saying, . . . `The time is at hand!' [/b]Do not go after them.


[b]On the God of the dead:
Paul says:
Rom.14
[9] For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

Jesus says:
Luke.20
[38] Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living;


On the sum of the commandments:
Paul says:
Rom.13
[9] The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, [/b]are summed up in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Jesus says:
Matt.22
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these[b] two commandments [/b]depend all the law and the prophets.


[b]On forgiveness of trespasses:
Paul says:
Eph.1
[7] In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace
Rom.4
[25] who was[b] put to death [/b]for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

Jesus says:
Matt.6
[14] For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you;
[15] but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


On being justified:
Paul says:
Rom.3
[24] they are[b] justified by his grace [/b]as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,
[28] For we hold that a man is justified by faith [/b]apart from works of law.
Rom.5
[9] Since, therefore, we are now[b] justified by his blood, [/b]much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Jesus says:
Matt.12
[37] for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.



[b]On the basis of judgment:
Paul says:
Rom.2
[12] All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.

Jesus says:
John.12
[48] He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.


On the commandments and eternal life:                    
Paul says:
Rom.7
[9] I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died;
[10] the very commandment which promised life proved to be death to me.

Jesus says:
Matt.19
[17] And he said to him, Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.


On the destiny of the Law and the Prophets:
Paul says:
Rom.10
[4] For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified.

Jesus says:
Matt.5
[17] Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
[18] For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

zig2ryme04: It needs to be clearly understood that when muslim leaders speak of God, as they did on tv saying that ''The quran is the literral embodment of God'', or that islam is ''the family of God'', and ''jihad is like all the comands of God'', that all statements apply only to their own god, ALLAH, THE MOON GOD.
THEY NEVER SPEAK FOR ''THE GOD AND FATHER OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST'', the ALMIGHTY, ETERNAL GOD, the ONLY GOD that all true cgristian worship.
It is important that Muslims undersatnd the clear distinction between God and Allah because if any might hope to eventually get to God's heaven of Peace and Bliss, without trustiong Jesus Christ, a terrible disapointment awaits them.
Read again the warning Jesus gave about being deceived as in Matt. 24:11,24. ''Many false prophets shall arise, and shall deceive MANY''.
Mohamed came 500years after Jesus had gone to Heaven.
Another thing that can be very deceiving for christians is the many similarities between ISLAM andCHRISTIANITY. Muslims believe in Jesus, but only as one prophet. They say he did not die on the cross, but without His atoning death and resurrecction from the dead, Christianity in only another religion with a set of rituals. Muslims believe in His vergin Birth , and in His Second Coming. It seems that Muhammad picked up much of the rituals of the type of Christianity around him, such as prayer beeds, specific times daily for ritual prayer, abstinence from certain meats at certain times, month of fasting from special foods, pilgrimages to shrines, Holy water from Mecca, etc. They also believe in the story of the assumption of Mary as well as the assumption of Fatima, Muhammad's daughter.
It can be very misleading for anyone who does not know the basis on which Christianity is founded.
The connection with Abraham is an area of common appeal, so this does need to be carefully considered . it is obvious in Islamic doctrine and practice that mohammad was well acquainted with the Jewish LAWS AND CUSTOM as practice by the jews amongst whom he lived.
MEAT LAWS, for example, slaying the animal, forbiding meats, fasting , hand washing, etc.
People generally, are influenced by the customs of the society in which they live, and in his search for truth, muhammad obviously was influenced by all these things.

Story story story
Once upon a time, time time time
No authentic references to back ur statement

bukatyne: How can you prove the existence of pre-Mohammed Islam with the Bible?

Why not use the Koran to prove it?

Why can't you help me for that?

zig2ryme04: The time is almost here.
May you receive kindness and peace from the seven spirits before the throne of God. May kindness and peace be yours from Jesus Christ the faithful withness.
Jesus was the first to conquer death, and he is the ruler of all earthly kings.
Christ loves us,and by his blood he set us free from our sins. He lets us rule as kings and serve God his Father as priests. To him be glory and power forever and ever! Amen.
Look! He is coming with the clouds. Everyone will see him, even the ones who stuck a sword through him.
All people on earth will weep because of him.Yes! it will happen! Amen.

NO POINT

Mintayo: PAUL FALSE PROPHETS? NO
YOU PEOPLE HATES THE EPISTLE OF PAUL SO MUCH BECAUSE ITS VALIDATE THE SONSHIP OF JESUS AND EXPOSE THE LIES IN QURAN SO I AM NOT SURPRISED.
HIS EPISTLES ALSO WERE WRITTEN TO EVERYBODY...SHOULD I SHOW THE PARTS THAT EXPOSE YOUR LIES?

And here is the truth: Many of the books of the New Testament were written by people who lied about their identity, claiming to be a famous apostle — Peter, Paul or James — knowing full well they were someone else. In modern parlance, that is a lie, and a book written by someone who lies about his identity is a forgery.

Why would we be tempted to believe there’s truth underneath it all?

Returning to Ehrman’s piece:

It may be one of the greatest ironies of the Christian scriptures that some of them insist on truth, while telling a lie. For no author is truth more important than for the “Paul” of Ephesians. He refers to the gospel as “the word of truth” (1:13); he indicates that the “truth is in Jesus”; he tells his readers to “speak the truth” to their neighbors (4:24-25); and he instructs his readers to “fasten the belt of truth around your waist” (6:14). And yet he himself lied about who he was. He was not really Paul.

Let’s not sugar coat this.  The holy book approved by the church for the entire history of the church was written by a liar encouraging truthfulness. It’s a lie.  A bald faced lie.  Written by a liar


Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, and the New York Times bestselling author of 'Misquoting Jesus' and 'Jesus, Interrupted'. His latest book, 'Forged: Writing in the Name of God -- Why the Bible's Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are', is now available from this below to buy it

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0062012614/ref=redir_mdp_mobile

Mintayo: PAUL FALSE PROPHETS? NO
YOU PEOPLE HATES THE EPISTLE OF PAUL SO MUCH BECAUSE ITS VALIDATE THE SONSHIP OF JESUS AND EXPOSE THE LIES IN QURAN SO I AM NOT SURPRISED.
HIS EPISTLES ALSO WERE WRITTEN TO EVERYBODY...SHOULD I SHOW THE PARTS THAT EXPOSE YOUR LIES?

Does the Bible in some passages tolerate and condone lying?

In Second Corinthians 12:16, Paul says, “Being crafty, I caught you with guile.”

So some assert Paul was teaching that it is ok to lie. But if you read the passage, the sentence is a rhetorical reference to an apparent charge by skeptics. Paul seems to be answering a charge against him that he had enriched himself with the money collected for the saints. So contrary to the assertion, Paul is teaching that skeptics slander teachers of the gospel, and not that it is ok to lie.

In Romans 3:7, Paul says, “For if the truth of God hath abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

Contrary to the assertion that Paul is advocating lying to make God look good, the verse actually is part of Paul’s argument concerning the great benefit of being Jewish. The faithfulness of God (he keeps his word concerning promises) is not nullified by the unbelief of some Jews. In fact, unbelief in truth is tantamount to lying to oneself, and even if every man be found a liar, God is still true to his word, righteous and just. Further, God’s righteousness is placed in a good light (glorified!) by our unrighteousness.

It is at this point in Paul’s discussion, that Paul addresses another possible charge by skeptics. Paul phrases the charge rhetorically in our verse (Rom. 3:7) that if our lies make God look good, why does God hold our lies against us. He, of course, answers the rhetorical question by saying those that say, “Let us do evil that good may come” deserve condemnation.

Again, and contrary to the premise that the bible appears to advocate lying, Paul is clearly teaching that it is wrong to justify lying by saying something good will come from it.

Unlike the first two passages, in Joshua 2:1-6 the Bible provides a mixed message in the account of Rahab. She had faith in God and therefore in the victory of God’s people, so she betrayed the people of Jericho and saved the lives of her family. She lied. Shakespeare said, “Oh what tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive” and here we have a great example. The Bible commends her faith in God, and it is not clear that her lying was not justified. In Hebrews 11:31, her faith is praised, and in James 2:25 her deeds are praised as proof of her real faith. But is doing evil, because we decide as individuals it is consistent with God’s will, and will save the lives of our love ones, justified? The answer must be no

Mintayo: PAUL FALSE PROPHETS? NO
YOU PEOPLE HATES THE EPISTLE OF PAUL SO MUCH BECAUSE ITS VALIDATE THE SONSHIP OF JESUS AND EXPOSE THE LIES IN QURAN SO I AM NOT SURPRISED.
HIS EPISTLES ALSO WERE WRITTEN TO EVERYBODY...SHOULD I SHOW THE PARTS THAT EXPOSE YOUR LIES?

Let me exposes some Paul atrocities to you;

"PAUL WAS NOT A CHRISTIAN"

Christianity has been taught since Constantine and the pope of his day and all his henchmen who mixed God's truth with paganism and gave it to the world in the fourth century. The end never came. Therefore it must be a lie. Now the time is up and the time is now for God's truth. Come out of her my people. YOU MUST READ REVELATION 18:4 AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE SCRIPTURES ARE TRYING TO SAY

When you shall have read the above scripture, think about this. NO CHRISTIAN TEACHER THAT HAS STUDIED HIS PHILOSOPHY IN AN ADVANCED INSTITUTION SUCH AS A UNIVERSITY, COULD HAVE OBTAINED AN "A" IF HE FAILED IN THE STUDIES OF "PAUL". It is O.K. to fail on the studies of anyone else, excepting PAUL.

That is because all Christians were taught that Paul was a good Christian, and that he was a heathen before that. So Paul was made into a so-called CHRISTAN ROLE MODEL, based on this vicious LIE. Here is a brief on my brother Paul, whom the Christians killed, and after his death, made him their god.

THE APOSTLE PAUL WHO WAS HE

Romans 11:1 "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I ALSO AM AN ISRAELITE, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin."
II Corinthains 11:22-23 "Are they Hebrews? SO AM I. Are they Israelites? SO AM I. Are they the seed of Abraham? SO AM I. Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more;"
Philippians 3:5 "Circumcised the eighth day, OF THE STOCK OF ISRAEL, OF THE TRIBE OF BENJAMIN, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;"

WHO WERE HIS BRETHREN

Romans 9:3-5 "For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: WHO ARE ISRAELITES; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises: Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen."



THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL

Hebrews 8:7-10 "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"

WHO DID HE PRAY FOR??

Romans 10:1 "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for ISRAEL is, that they might be saved."
Galations 6:16 "And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the ISRAEL of God."

OTHER CONFIRMING SCRIPTURES

Romans 9:4, 6, 27, 31 10:21 11:7, 25, 26
I Corinthians. 10:18
II Corinthians. 3:7
Ephesians 2:12

THE CHILDREN OF SLAVERY SHOULD NO LONGER BE ENSLAVED IN STRANGE PHILOSOPHIES, CONFUSING INTERPRETATION OF THEIR BOOK "THE HOLY BIBLE", THE WORSHIPPING OF STRANGE gods WITH STRANGE PRACTICES, AND THEY SHOULD REJECT CHRISTANITY IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. TEACH OTHERS RATHER THAN HATING THEM, FOR ONLY BY DOING SO, CAN YOUR LIGHT SHINE.

zig2ryme04: the more christians argue with non-christians, the more their heart is hardened. the god of this world hath blinded their eyes.
you need someone to sit you down and explain all these to you before you can understand. the things of God are foolishness unto man.
i can show you so many mistakes from the quran, but what i will only show you is that Jesus Loves you and He doesn't want you to perish.

I thought u wanted to say sometthing reasonable but you concluded with shame man withoiut proof

Mintayo: PAUL FALSE PROPHETS? NO
YOU PEOPLE HATES THE EPISTLE OF PAUL SO MUCH BECAUSE ITS VALIDATE THE SONSHIP OF JESUS AND EXPOSE THE LIES IN QURAN SO I AM NOT SURPRISED.
HIS EPISTLES ALSO WERE WRITTEN TO EVERYBODY...SHOULD I SHOW THE PARTS THAT EXPOSE YOUR LIES?

You don't need to ask me b4 exposing any lies. Just go ahead and let me see where you would not rope urself in ur leg

[quote author=Mintayo][/quote]I asked u to explain those verses for me, you dodge my question after I have answered u. These are the question again pls don't dodge it.
Another way to teach non muslim about islam is that Quran was from God while other books was full of contradiction.
HERE BELOW ARE MY PROOF TO CALL UR BIBLE UNHOLY:

ARE U SURE THAT THE BIBLE IS HOLY (YES or NO)

1a). 2 Samuel 24:1
24 And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

1b). 1 Chronicles 21:1
21 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

QUESTION------( is lord of david then satan)


2a). 2 Samuel 8:4
4 And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven hundred horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen: and David houghed all the chariot horses, but reserved of them for an hundred chariots.

2b). 1 Chronicles 18:4
4 And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven thousand horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen: David also houghed all the chariot horses, but reserved of them an hundred chariots.

QUESTION--(seven hundred OR seven thousand)


3a). 2 Samuel 10:18
18 And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand horsemen, and smote Shobach the captain of their host, who died there.

3b). 1 Chronicles 19:18
18 But the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand men which fought in chariots, and forty thousand footmen, and killed Shophach the captain of the host.

QUESTION--(seven hundred chariots OR seven thousand men? Forty thousand horsemen OR footmen? Shobach OR shophach)


4a). 2 Kings 8:26
26 Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel

4b). 2 Chronicles 22:2
2 Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.

QUESTION---( twenty two OR forty two years)


5a). 2 Kings 24:8
8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.

5b). 2 Chronicles 36:9
9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the Lord.

QUESTION---(eighteen yrs OR eight yrs? Three mths OR three mths and ten days)


FROM NEW TESTAMENT

1a). John 5:37
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

1b). John 14:9
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?


2a). John 5:31
31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

2b). John 8:14
14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.


ARE U SURE THAT THE BIBLE IS HOLY (YES or NO)

zig2ryme04: why dont muslims talk about the book of revelation? from there they will know who jesus really is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kHR0CHl-B4

You don't need to tell muslim abt who jesus really is?

SORRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!