₦airaland Forum

@Jesoul

LOL,
Proverbs 26:4 - Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.

Funny how you quote proverb 26 v 4 but applied proverb 26 v 5 in answering me. YUou shoulsdnt have posted anything if you really wanted to follow verse 4.

Nevertheless I'll add this though I know you're not really looking for answers, you just want to start trouble.

No I am looking for  answers. I am prepared for your answers

None of your questions make any sense my brother. Why would you ask if Jesus was a christian? what kind of question is that and what kind of answer are you hoping to solicit from me?

It will never make sense to you because you lay claim to him yet he wasn a christian. He was not sent to you let alone dying for you.

Every word in the bible is inspired by God-whether written by men or spoken by Jesus. Whether or not you choose to believe it is your own cup of tea.

Was that slip of pen or intentional typing? Did you just say that every word is inspired by God? Your response will determine my next post.

This thread is addressed to christians and I'm giving a christian perspective, soley based on the scriptures.

Well, it may have been addressed to christians but your response felt that you are the believer while others are non believers.

Now I asked pilgrim this question and I am asking you as well,

Do you have any proof to show that you will be favoured above others on that day and that others will never gain paradise for not being a christian and accepting Jesus as lord and saviour?

Thanks

@kobojunkie

I DARE you to post the VErses that YOU CLAIM have changed @Olabowale,  Pull out your Dictionary pre 1970 and your Dictionary Today and then pull out those PRe 1970 verses you claim said one thing and the post 1970 verses that you said say something else. I hate it when people lie. Show me Proof and let us see how the stories and chapters have changed @Olabowale,  For once in your life I urge you to be honest enough to post those verses and let us see if they are any different from the one I read myself and what I have today @Olabowale,

Hold your breath. What if I supply you early publications that were having some verses missing but inserted in recent versions yet they are claiming to have copied same from original manuscript?

Are you prepared for that?

@kobojunkie

I DARE you to post the VErses that YOU CLAIM have changed @Olabowale, Pull out your Dictionary pre 1970 and your Dictionary Today and then pull out those PRe 1970 verses you claim said one thing and the post 1970 verses that you said say something else. I hate it when people lie. Show me Proof and let us see how the stories and chapters have changed @Olabowale, For once in your life I urge you to be honest enough to post those verses and let us see if they are any different from the one I read myself and what I have today @Olabowale,

Hold your breath. What I supply you early publications that were having some verses missing but inserted in recent versions yet the are claiing to have copied same from original manuscript?

Are you prepared for that?

@Olabowale

Please my people, do not insult one another to the point of going so far to insult family member and those who are dearly loved by your adversaries. We can not from either position catch flies with a bowl of vinegar. Instead we should use honey. Qur'an teaches us not be unjust because of our hatred of evil deeds committed by others. It also teaches us not to be unjust because of the evil deeds that are being committed on us. Please let us calm down or walk away when the anger is boiling and we can not control it. Please everyone. Further do not be dishonest in your approach to any issue so that you may agitate your opponent to the point that you may be disrespected.

I concur big brother. May Allah continue to be with you and give you sound health. I never meant to be, read all my post and you will notice that I  never started but she did. Must she resort to abuse whenever we are having debate? it goes a long way to show how somone is being brought up, the kind of training he/she receives etc. She is supposed to keep mum if she has nothing to say rather than her personal attacks, calling someone a fool having forgotten  that Jesus told them whoever calls another person a fool is will be doomed for hell. I wonder why they are laying claim to Jesus but do not follow his teaching having forgotten that he said that you will only be his true follower when you follow his teachings.

Na real wa. It will never happen again, take my word.


I sincerely appreciate once again. Thumps up big brother

@pilgrim

One step at a time. When you deal with the few verses already offered, we move on to the next query.

Let me have the verses you claimed to have supplied on his being crucified and rising after the third day.
Why not wise up and stop this your dishonesty because it has never worked and will never worked with me. You have all been saying that Jesus' death and resurrection was prophesised in the OT but when I asked you to provide one the prophecies where it was said he would be crucified and resurrected after the third day, you couldnt lay your hands but only grasping at that of piercing of hands that has no relationship with Jesus.

@Jesoul

2Cor6:14
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord.

Did Jesus say the above? I just want to know

If anybody desire any religion apart from Islam it will never be accepted from him and he will be among the losers on that day.

Now please what qualifies you to be a believer? Was Jesus a christian? Do you really follow his teachings?

Thanks

@pilgrim



Why not do me proud by proving the verse from the OT where it was prophesised that Jesus would be crucified and resurrect after the third day (3rd)

@pilgrim

My question was simple and direct: did you not claim that the same God sent Muhammad? Why now the hypocrisy of denying that position - so you can conveniently attack the Bible when Muhammad is bleaxched out of its pages, yes?

Is God of the OT same as that of NT?

@pilgrim.1

Qur'an: سورة البقرة Al-Baqara, Chap.2, verse 41

Shakir
And believe in what I have revealed,
verifying that which IS with you,
and be not the first to deny it, neither take a mean price
in exchange for My communications; and Me, Me alone
should you fear.

Since you failed in understanding simple statement, let us use another approach to understanding the above verse.

Questions for you please

1. Who was with revelation Allah made reference to in the above statement?
2. Are you saying the revelation used therein is the same as the one you are having now?

Note; The Quran was revealed 1400 years ago and you have noticed diferent versions flooding the market, some with missing verses, some verses not in the original manuscript(just the one I served you by Somze) and later insertion in later versions.


Come back and deny the corruption of your bible and the Quran confirming early revelations.

@pilgrim



@babs787,

My post may not be worth responding to at all - because you currently have made the point that all you offer are lies for Allah. And it is taking you eons to answer a simple question.

It is not worth responding because you keep shooting yourself in the leg. You are now saying that Muhammad wasnt an illiterate but couldnt provide your proof. Arent you ashamed of yourself?

I hear. Just remember that LYING for Allah is not a virtue.

Do supply me where you read it from that he was literate and copied the bible (which version sef and which edition)?

@pilgrim.1

Okay sir.

~ I must not reply every post.

~ I have not replied every post.

~ I will not reply every post.

If that makes you happy and releases your stress, I will wait for mdsocks to wake up after 9.30pm.

Ok no prb. I am not stressed and will never be even though an very busy now.

I've just been told (by a Muslim friend) that my presence is a * * * * * to Muslims online.
So, I log off to allow you guys some "peace" for the rest of the week.

I dont think it is.

- - - - - - - - -
And to the person who sent me that email. . . I am sorry. I really do apologise for using the "al-harm-dudu-LIE" quip in some of my replies. I value your friendship, and will not seek to offend your sensibility as much. That is why I promised to come and apologise here instead of privately by email. Cheers.

Do you have to apologise when you will still repeat the same thing again? To be honest with you, I like you as a person though of different religion but hate your approaches to debates. You keep using vulgar language, forcing people to reply in the same manner which I for one dont like doing. Why not try showing moral in your post rather than your way of responding to issues?

@pilgrim.1

@babs787,

I asked for a simple verse from the Qur'an for the statement you made as to the Qur'an coming to "correct" the Biblical scriptures. Circulating the excuses so many times of a "corrupt" Bible simply shows you deceptive you have sworn your heart to be - because it simply says that Allah gave the Qur'an to confirm the same Biblical scriptures that Muslims today are seeking to attack.

If you cannot find that verse in the Qur'an where Allah asked you to LIE for him by making such false statements, please note that none of your LIES will bless Muhammad. QED.

To revamp your tattered image on Naiaraland, please produce that verse from the Qur'an and save your brigand excuses. Thank you.

Do you read to understand at all?

You really should be ashamed of yourself. After sweating to LIE for Allah in order to promote Islam, I asked for a single verse from the Qur'an for our assertion - but see you running helter-skelter from TAFSIR to ENCYCLOPEDIA and other commentaries. Please tell me that Allah wrote all those TAFSIRS and ENCYCLOPEDIA. . . or are they better authority for what Allah refused to say in your Qur'an? If you want "commentaries" - I have offered those in Hilali-Khan's comments directly stated in his own translations as referring to the TORAH and INJIL which IS in the possession of Jews and Christians TODAY! Was Hilali-Khan LYING as well, so that you can glorify the TAFSIRS?

If Allah said the Qur'an came to CONFIRM the Biblical scriptures, would the word of men in TAFSIRS and ENCYCLOPEDIA rubbish is claim and make him stand aloof as they controvert what he said? Is Allah changing his mind after telling us that he gave the Qur'an to confirm the Biblical scriptures?

1. Now if the Quran did not come to correct the bible, how come Allah says we should dialogue with you in the best manner of approach?

The Quran confirms what was before it by stating or repeating that what was revealed to the concerned prophets and correcting that which has been corrupted. For example, in the story of the Original Sin as seen in the Bible, the blame is put on the woman and not the man. The Quran however corrects this mistake and says that both of them are equally responsible. Also the Quran made it known to us that Jesus started his first miracle from the cradle. The Quran also corrected the false prophecies ascribed to Jesus as in this link https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-101571.0.html, letting us know the true status of Jesus christ.

I gave you rebuttal on the evidence christian presents that Torah is the same as what they are having hence my giving you catholic encyclopedia which read thus:


“The three most celebrated manuscripts of the Septuagint known are the Vatican, “Codex Vaticanus” (fourth century); the Alexandrian, “Codex Alexandrinus” (fifth century), now in the British Museum, London; and that of Sinai, “Codex Sinaiticus” (fourth century), found by Tischendorf in the convent of St. Catherine, on Mount Sinai, in 1844 and 1849, now part at Leipzig and in part in St. Petersburg; they are all written in uncials.”


Hence we see that the Septuagint today is not from during the time of Jesus. The earliest manuscript dates to the fourth century some 300 years after Jesus. Thus no Christian can claim that the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and Numbers) which they have today in the Bible is the same as to what was present in the Septuagint during the time of Jesus.

So pilgrim, how come the Gospel in existence today is the same as that of Jesus when it was written after him?

Stop your deceit cos it has not worked with me and it will never work. The more you lie, the more your falsehood is exposed.

Lest I forget, your attention is needed here
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-101571.0.html

@pilgrim. 1

Muhammad wasn't an illiterate - that is yet another LIE that Muslim propagandists have circulated to make him appear that he was illiterate. How could an illiterate know how much inheritance to divide among those he cheated, copping out 4 wives for all Muslim men while he knew the number above 4 wives to take to himself?

Is your post woth responding at all? Which version did he copy from?

On a serious note, I keep letting you guys deny that Muhammad was literate - but I will come back at the relevant time and share more on that deception.

Please do that ASAP

And the killing spree and incest were all the parcelled adventures with which Muhammad was sent, yes?

Are you denying that from your bible?

I don't recycle old tales from the Qur'an. That is why I opened a new thread to request a simple question to a new deception YOU brought up. Go there and deal with it and let us know how much education you have attined in basic English!

Mumu . Omo ti ko ni eko

@pilgrim

I was only wondering if it was 9.30pm again so soon at your end this morning!

Must you reply every post. You better take your time or else . Yeye girl

Pilgrim.1


Your attention is needed before giving you my explanations and backing up same with verses from your holy book


Is the bible 1005 word of God?
Is the bible 100% inspired?

@pilgrim.1

I have given you explanation on the comfirmation of the previous revelation which you have failed to understand. But if you are that blind, you may read again below for clarification.

WHERE is the verse from the Qur'an that you asserted it came to "correct" the Bible?

The Holy Quran came to correct the mistakes in the. In the first place, the bible was neither revealed to Moses nor Jesus. Going to OT, we learnt the bible placed the blame on Eve while Allah in the holy Quran said that the two were responsible.

Also we learnt that Jesus did his first miracle when he spoke from the cradle as against the bible that said he started his miracle by converting water to wine.




Abdullah Yusuf Ali:


“After the corruption of the older revelation, the Quran comes with a twofold purpose:
(1) to confirm the true and original Message and
(2) to guard it or act as a check to its interpretation. The Arabic word ‘Muhaymin’ is very comprehensive in meaning. It means one who safeguards, watches over, stands witness, preserves and upholds. The Quran safeguards “the Book”, for it has preserved within it the teachings of all the former Books. It watches over these Books in the sense that it corroborates the Word of Allah which has remained intact in them. It stands as a witness because it bears testimony to the Word of Allah contained in these Books and helps to sort it out from the interpretations and commentaries of the people which were mixed with it; what is confirmed by the Quran is the Word of Allah and what is against it is that of the people.”


In the beginning of the verse, Allah encourages us to debate and have dialogue with the People of the Book. Now if the Quran was testifying that the Books you have at that point in time were in their pure form and that they were on the right path then why would the Muslims be encouraged to have a dialogue and debate with the People of the Book?

Obviously the dialogue was to help christians realize the wrong which they were doing so that they could come onto the right path. The path as prescribed by Allah. The path one can walk on only by accepting the uncorrupted Book – The Quran.

The verse again does not state that the Bible in the hands of the Jews and the Christians of that time was in its pristine form. What the Quran states is that it is confirming that which was revealed before – not the Bible that they hold but confirming only that which was revealed before it by Allah.


So how does the Quran confirm what was revealed before? It does so simply by stating or repeating that what was revealed to the concerned prophets and correcting that which has been corrupted. For example, in the story of the Original Sin as seen in the Bible, the blame is put on the woman and not the man. The Quran however corrects this mistake and says that both of them are equally responsible.


However the Christians say that they have same Torah today as it was during the time of Jesus and the evidence they give is the existence of the[b] ‘Septuagint’[/b].
According to theCatholic Encyclopedia:



“The three most celebrated manuscripts of the Septuagint known are the Vatican, “Codex Vaticanus” (fourth century); the Alexandrian, “Codex Alexandrinus” (fifth century), now in the British Museum, London; and that of Sinai, “Codex Sinaiticus” (fourth century), found by Tischendorf in the convent of St. Catherine, on Mount Sinai, in 1844 and 1849, now part at Leipzig and in part in St. Petersburg; they are all written in uncials.”


Hence we see that the Septuagint today is not from during the time of Jesus. The earliest manuscript dates to the fourth century some 300 years after Jesus. Thus no Christian can claim that the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and Numbers) which they have today in the Bible is the same as to what was present in the Septuagint during the time of Jesus.


Now we find yet in the Quran that  “let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein”. However any sane christian (not like pilgrim, mrpataki, davidylan etc) will know that  this verse is talking about what Allah has revealed in the Gospel – not the entire Bible.


Now let us see if your bible is corrupt or not.

Pilgrim, it is believed that Isaiah wrote the book of Isaiah?

Please compare Isaiah 37 with 2nd Kings 19 and tell me who wrote the book of kings and where was the holy spirit that was supposed to inspire them but made them copy everything word for word!! Who copied who there? 1005 plagiarism.

Also christians believe that the bible is 100% word of God but we found out that it contains, word of God, word of prophets and word of historians.

From the OT, do we say the below verses are from God to Moses.

and the Lord said unto him, away get thee down
and the Lord spake to moses saying

The above shows that they were compiled after him by historians and not the original message given to Moses because I could remember Shahan saying that Moses penned down his obituary while DAVIDYLAN SAID THAT IT WAS COMPLETED BY ONE OF HIS FRIENDS !!!


Now going into the NT, we read the word of historians that showed that the NT christians are carrying now is not the same as the one revelaed to Jesus because the revelation to Jesus was a direct message from God but we learnt that the NT was compiled after Jesus' demise withouth him having any knowledge of the so called NT ascribed to him.

Do you still have any proof that Matthew wrote the book of Mathew?


Lastly provide solution to this contradiction from the inspired book of God

2 samuel 10 v 18: and the syrians fled before Israel and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the syrians and forty thousand horsemen and smote shobach the captain of their host who died there.

and

1 chronicles 19 v 18: but the syrians fled before Israel and David slew of the syrians seven thousand men which fought in chariots and forty thousand footmen and killed shophach the captain of the host.

Kindly explain the highlighted difference in the two verses.

Thanks

@pilgrim.1


Let us view your worries together supporting same with tafsir

Qur'an:  سورة البقرة  Al-Baqara, Chap.[b]2, verse 41

Picthall
  [b]And believe in that which I reveal,
  confirming that which ye possess already (of the Scripture),
  and be not first to disbelieve therein, and part not with My revelations
  for a trifling price, and keep your duty unto Me.

Yusuf Ali
  And believe in what I reveal,
  confirming the revelation which is with you,
  and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs
  for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.

Hilali-Khan
  And believe in what I have sent down (this Qur'an),
  confirming that which is with you, [the Taurat (Torah)
  and the Injeel (Gospel)], and be not the first to disbelieve
  therein, and buy not with My Verses [the Taurat (Torah) and
  the Injeel (Gospel)] a small price (i.e. getting a small gain by
  selling My Verses), and fear Me and Me Alone.
  (Tafsir At-Tabari, Vol. I, Page 253).

Shakir
  And believe in what I have revealed,
  verifying that which is with you,
  and be not the first to deny it, neither take a mean price
  in exchange for My communications; and Me, Me alone
  should you fear.

Khalifa
  You shall believe in what I have revealed herein,
  confirming what you have;
  do not be the first to reject it. Do not trade away
  My revelations for a cheap price, and observe Me.

Chapter 2 Verse 41

And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.


When we read the verse preceding this, we find that these verses refer to the Children of Israel where Allah asks them to fulfill the Covenant. Then in this verse Allah (swt) is telling them to believe in what He reveals which confirms the revelation which is with them. So the Quran again is confirming that which is a revelation and not that which is corrupted by human hands. Then


we read the next verse:



And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).



Thus it becomes apparent that the Quran is telling the Jews not to conceal the Truth. How would the Truth be concealed? The Truth would be concealed by following human corruptions rather than following what Allah has revealed.

Qur'an:  سورة البقرة  Al-Baqara, Chap.2, verse 89

Picthall
  [b]And when there cometh unto them a scripture from Allah,
  confirming that in their possession - though before that
  they were asking for a signal triumph over those who disbelieved
  - and when there cometh unto them that which they know (to be
  the truth) they disbelieve therein. The curse of Allah is on disbeliever/

[b]
Chapter 2 Verse 89


And when there comes to them a Book from Allah, confirming what is with them,- although from of old they had prayed for victory against those without Faith,- when there comes to them that which they (should) have recognized, they refuse to believe in it but the curse of Allah is on those without Faith.


Once again this verse is seen to hold the same meaning as that of ‘Saddaqa’ explained above. The Quran which is from Allah is confirming the truth that which is with the People of the Book. Over and over again we find that the Noble Quran tells us that it is confirming the truth in the previous revelations. The Quran is speaking the truth about what is with the People of the Book. Therefore it is clear that the Quran is not testifying that the entire Bible is preserved but is only confirming the truth that is with the People of the Book thus naturally correcting the corrupted part.

Qur'an:  سورة البقرة  Al-Baqara, Chap.2, verse 91


Picthall
  And when it is said unto them: Believe in that which
  Allah hath revealed, they say: [b]We believe in that which
  was revealed unto us. And they disbelieve in that which
  cometh after it, though it is the truth confirming that
  which they possess. Say (unto them, O Muhammad):
  Why then slew ye the prophets of Allah aforetime, if ye are
  (indeed) believers?

[b]Chapter 2 Verse 91

When it is said to them, “Believe in what Allah Hath sent down, “they say, “We believe in what was sent down to us:” yet they reject all besides, even if it be Truth confirming what is with them. Say: “Why then have ye slain the prophets of Allah in times gone by, if ye did indeed believe?”


This verse is connected to the one explained above. The Quran says that the People of the Book reject the Truth which is confirming that which is with them. What does the Truth confirm? The Truth would but natural confirm that which is the truth. Thus as explained above many times in this section, the Quran, being the Truth, confirms the Truth that is with the People of the Book and not that which is falsehood created by human intervention.



Chapter 2 Verse 97

Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah’s will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-


This verse is from the same Surah as the previous two verses and talks about those who are enemies to Gabriel. Gabriel is an angel who brought the revelations to Prophet Muhammad (saw). The revelation is referred to as a confirmation of what went before. This means that this revelation (Quran) confirms what actually happened before thus exposing the falsehood that might be there in the minds or the scriptures of the People of the Book. Further the Quran is called ‘guidance’ for those who believe and if the purpose of the Quran was to state that the entire Bible is uncorrupted then it would not refer to itself as guidance to those who believe because the Bible would still be guidance to those who do not believe.




Chapter 2 Verse 101

And when there came to them a messenger from Allah, confirming what was with them, a party of the people of the Book threw away the Book of Allah behind their backs, as if (it had been something) they did not know!


We find that again the same word is used in this verse of the Quran. Thus when Allah (swt) sent his Messenger (saw) to confirm the truth in what was with the People of the Book (here the verse refers to the Jews), some of them who realized that it was by default exposing the falsehood, refused to consider what the Messenger (saw) was saying by pretending as if they do not even know what their books had in it. If the Quran was testifying that their scripture is in its pristine form then the Jews would not have pretended as if they knew not what was in their scriptures. The reason why they pretended as such was because they saw that an unlettered Prophet (saw) was bringing out the truth in their books and by default exposing the falsehood. The Jews knew that if they would look at the truth in their books then it would prove that Prophet Muhammad (saw) was the Messenger of Allah (swt) and thus they chose to ignore their books completely.

@pilgrim.1


I was planning creating a thread in which I will go into detailed corruption of the bible but all the same I will still treat part of your worries so that you and your folks will know that the bible you are carrying now is NOT THE SAME AS THE REVELATION GIVEN TO MOSES, DAVID AND JESUS respectively.

Note that I highlighted your favourite VERSION of the Qur'an - Hilali-Khan translation. They go on to state two things that Muslims hypocritically believe:

Ok

(a) they insert the words "Torah" and "Injil" as what the Qur'an came to CONFIRM

Hope you do read to understand? You ignorantly believe that the Torah and Injil are the same as the bible you carry about huh.I supply you answers to show that your bible is corrupt and can never be the same as the TORAH and Injil.

(b) they also go on to show that the verses apply to what is "WITH YOU" (or that which they possess!) - this indicates that these translators are not referring to any LOST Torah or Injil, but to the present Bible in the possession of Christians and Jews. Dr Hilali and Dr Khan are not translators from archiach ages - they did their translation work in the present contemporary times, and they were referring to "which IS with you" (and NOT "that which was with you".

Okay miss lecturer . So in a nutshell, they are referring to the present day bible you are carrying huh Ignorance is really a disease. I reserve my comment to be applied in your other quotes.

If you sabi basic understanding of English, please note that there is a difference between WAS and IS!! These translators were not supposing that the Torah was with us and thereafter LOST!! Those who ever propounded the LOST Torah are LYING through their yellow teeth!!

Now babygirl, read and re-read. You are confused huh? I will bring back the quotes supplied and nail you woth same. Now who was having the Torah then? Can you please provide the original manuscript for me?

Please babs787, it is either you put Hilali-Khan and other translators to shame NOW; or forever slap your LIES out of NAIRALAND!!   Lying for Allah will never bless Muhammad . .  so stop this Al-Harm-dudu-LIE that you have taken as a new adventure without pay!

Sister, I will surely attend to your worries huh?

Instead of coming to "correct", the Qur'an directly claims that it came to "CONFIRM" (i.e., VERIFY, REASSERT, SUBSTANTIATE, AUTHENTICATE, and VALIDATE) the Biblical scriptures. Where it does this or not is the next thing that will be of concern to us. But for now, I just wanted to let readers see the Lying blabbing machine you are!!

Never mind, we will soon see the real LIAR by the time I serve you what you didn not expect.


Part of the introduction to Surah Baqarah




At Makkah the Quran generally addressed the mushrik Quraish who were ignorant of Islam, but at Al- Madinah it was also concerned with the Jews who were acquainted with the creed of the Unity of Allah, Prophethood, Revelation, the Hereafter and angels.[b] They also professed to believe in the law which was revealed by Allah to their Prophet Moses (Allah's peace be upon him), and in principle, their way was the same (Islam) that was being taught by Prophet Muhammad (Allah's peace be upon him). But they had strayed away from it during the centuries of degeneration and had adopted many un- Islamic creeds, rites and customs of which there was no mention and for which there was no sanction in the Torah. Not only this : they had tampered with the Torah by inserting their own explanations and interpretations into its text. They had distorted even that part of the Word of God which had remained intact in their Scriptures and taken out of it the real spirit of true religion and were now clinging to a lifeless frame of rituals. Consequently their beliefs, their morals and their conduct had gone to the lowest depths of degeneration. The pity is that they were not only satisfied with their condition but loved to cling to it. Besides this, they had no intention or inclination to accept any kind of reform. So they became bitter enemies of those who came to teach them the Right Way and did their worst to defeat every such effort. [/b]


Hold you breath please

@pilgrim.1

Qur'an[b]: سورة البقرة Al-Baqara, Chap.2, verse 41

Picthall
[b]And believe in that which I reveal,
confirming that which ye possess already (of the Scripture),
and be not first to disbelieve therein, and part not with My revelations
for a trifling price, and keep your duty unto Me.

Yusuf Ali
And believe in what I reveal,
confirming the revelation which is with you,
and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs
for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.

Hilali-Khan
And believe in what I have sent down (this Qur'an),
confirming that which is with you, [the Taurat (Torah)
and the Injeel (Gospel)], and be not the first to disbelieve
therein, and buy not with My Verses [the Taurat (Torah) and
the Injeel (Gospel)] a small price (i.e. getting a small gain by
selling My Verses), and fear Me and Me Alone.
(Tafsir At-Tabari, Vol. I, Page 253).

Shakir
And believe in what I have revealed,
verifying that which is with you,
and be not the first to deny it, neither take a mean price
in exchange for My communications; and Me, Me alone
should you fear.

Khalifa
You shall believe in what I have revealed herein,
confirming what you have;
do not be the first to reject it. Do not trade away
My revelations for a cheap price, and observe Me.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reference #2: (Qur'an 2 v 89)


Quote

Qur'an[b]: سورة البقرة Al-Baqara, Chap.2, verse 89

Picthall
[b]And when there cometh unto them a scripture from Allah,
confirming that in their possession - though before that
they were asking for a signal triumph over those who disbelieved
- and when there cometh unto them that which they know (to be
the truth) they disbelieve therein. The curse of Allah is on disbelievers.

Yusuf Ali
And when there comes to them a Book from God,
confirming what is with them, - although from of old
they had prayed for victory against those without Faith,
- when there comes to them that which they (should) have
recognised, they refuse to believe in it but the curse of God
is on those without Faith.

Hilali-Khan
And when there came to them (the Jews),
a Book (this Qur'an) from Allah
confirming what is with them [the Taurat (Torah)
and the Injeel (Gospel)], although aforetime they had
invoked Allah (for coming of Muhammad Peace be upon him)
in order to gain victory over those who disbelieved, then when
there came to them that which they had recognised,
they disbelieved in it. So let the Curse of Allah be on
the disbelievers

Shakir
And when there came to them a Book from Allah
verifying that which they have, and aforetime they used
to pray for victory against those who disbelie[/b]ve, but when
there came to them (Prophet) that which they did not recognize,
they disbelieved in him; so Allah's curse is on the unbelievers.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Reference #3: (Qur'an 2 v 91)


Quote

Qur'an[b]: سورة البقرة Al-Baqara, Chap.[b]2, verse 91


Picthall
And when it is said unto them: Believe in that which
Allah hath revealed, they say: [b]We believe in that which
was revealed unto us. And they disbelieve in that which
cometh after it, though it is the truth confirming that
which they possess. Say (unto them, O Muhammad):
Why then slew ye the prophets of Allah aforetime, if ye are
(indeed) believers?

Yusuf Ali
When it is said to them, "Believe in what God Hath sent down,"
they say, "We believe in what was sent down to us:" yet they
reject all besides, even if it be Truth confirming what is with
them. Say: "Why then have ye slain the prophets of God in times
gone by, if ye did indeed believe?"

Hilali-Khan
And when it is said to them (the Jews), "Believe in what Allah
has sent down," they say, "We believe in what was sent down
to us." And they disbelieve in that which came after it, while it
is the truth confirming what is with them. Say (O Muhammad
Peace be upon him to them): "Why then have you killed the Prophets
of Allah aforetime, if you indeed have been believers?"

Shakir
And when it is said to them, Believe in what Allah has revealed,
they say: We believe in that which was revealed to us; and they
deny what is besides that, while it is the truth verifying that
which they have. Say: Why then did you kill Allah's Prophets
before if you were indeed believers?



In all the preceding verses from the Qur'an, where did 'Allah' or Muhammad ever claim that the Qur'an came to "correct" the Biblical Scriptures, babs787? Why are you buying into the duplicity of your Muslim propagandists without carefully checking out what they are claiming?!? Or is lying for 'Allah' the best next thing that your scholars can do to cover up Muhammad's fallacies?

Please take note of the highlighted qupote os yours. Answers will be provided in my next post to one of your rejoinders.

Salam to you all

Quite an interesting topic.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said in al-Fataawa (22/187): “Some of them might show off by putting their prayer-mats over their shoulders and carrying their masbahahs in their hands, making them symbols of religion and prayer. It is known from the mutawaatir reports that neither the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) nor his Companions used these as symbols. They used to recite tasbeeh and count on their fingers, as the hadeeth says: “Count on your fingers, for they will asked, and will be made to speak.” Some of them may count their tasbeeh with pebbles or date stones. Some people say that doing tasbeeh with the masbahah is makrooh, and some allow it, but no one says that tasbeeh with the masbahah is better than tasbeeh with the fingers.” Then he (may Allaah have mercy on him) goes on to discuss the issue of showing off with the masbahah, saying that it is showing off with regard to something that is not prescribed by Islam, which is worse than showing off with regard to something that is prescribed.

I prefer using my hands too. The most acceptable means is the use of hands because the hands will bear witness on that day but considering a situation where you have to recite like 1,000 Astaghfir-Lah, 1000 Subhanah Lah etc. To make it easier, you use your Tasbir and have something like 10 stones by your side to aid you in counting without making mistake.

You can as well use the tasbir but it is being frown at if it for show off in which Allah does not like.

Any other input please?

@Mustay

Where have you been hiding. I am still expecting my meat o.

@mukina


With regards to online chat we had, I will try my best to keep this thread going Insha Allah.

Thanks for your wonderful sisterly advice , I appreciate

@pilgrim

Are you not the samne slicker who said that THE SAME God sent the prophets of the OT and Muhammad? Are you so confused that you don't know where to stand?

Is it too hard for you to answer? Is God of the OT same as that of NT?

@pilgrim


Your dishonesty wont work with me

Insert Quote
Babs, please where is the answer to my simple question that the Qur'an came to "correct" the Bible?

I want the verse from the Qur'an.

Is it not true that your bible is corrupt? We will take it from there when you provide honest answer.

@ajadrage

No one would come and face judgement from a hell or a purgatory or whatever anyone might decide to invent, we would all individually be called from our prior state of total oblivion and inexistence.

This quoted post above caught my attention hence my liftng it out. Are you saying that there would be no punishment for evil doers?

@pilgrim.1

@babs787,

I remember you ahve asked me what my thoughts on the Jinn are; and my response was that I will post them subsequently. . . just in the meantime, allowing you time enough to edit the assumptions you made that have no balanced appraisal in reverred sources of Islamic jurisprudence. Before you ask me what they are, please carefully go through your replies again.

Are you still looking for the verses from your bible ? Common enough of your deceit, your bible never and will never tell you anything on that.

If you were referring to Muhammad as the Comforter, my simple request is this:

Please quote me the verse from the Qur'an where ALLAH ever referred to Muhammad as "the Comforter". Just the verse will do - no drama please.

Thank you.

Here her again o. I am tired of this your maradona style . So because God did not refer to Muhammad as the comforter, he couldnt have been that comforter. You can see that you are the one deflecting thread but I will follow suit. Now, since you are ascribing the word to holy spirit, please has holy spirit be in existence or not? Just only that. Thanks

@pilgrim

Unfortunately, I don't entertain fools who keep recycling already dealt with questions. That same issue has been dealt with over and over again on Nairaland, and the last time I checked, you were drooling at it until you ran out of questions and had to bellow out that it is never your turn to answer questions.

I am not surprised since your parent are fools too. Let me have the thread where you provided answers.

That was why I answered some other questions and simnce you have made it your fool's castle to never address issues yourself,

No I havent made it that way but your parent that regretted giving birth that to an uncouth fool like you that lacked home training but decide to be putting them to shame.

I refused to entertain your comedies until you wake up from your Islamic deceit and self-confessed illiteracy. You have no right to keep demanding that people answer your questions when you don't ever seek to discuss rationally with others - this is a public Forum.

You will always show your pranks by avoiding questions that seems too hard for you. Omo osi, let me have where you provided answers.

Daft!

That goes to your parent and your older family member.

The reason why I don't post lengthy rejoinders to your drivels is because I have dealth with a whole lot of your nightmares.

Liar, I very sure that your parent will be gfeeling bad if they could lay their hands on your post where you have been putting them to shame. Now let me have where you dealt with those questions

I did not misfire - and when you upgrade from your retard scholarship, more will come. I have told you already, you have no right to demand that people answer your rewcycled questions when this is a public Forum. What did you do with the simple questions I asked you about the verses you requested for the prophecies on Crucifixion?

Mumu, I asked you to give me verses from the OT where it was said that Jesus would be crucified and resurrect after the third day but you couldnt do that.

@pilgrim

@babs787,

Please, no vex O. . .    I know you did not address me; but let me make a few comments in your rejoinder to Kobojunkie.


Quote from: babs787 on Today at 06:36:58 PM
@kobojunkie

Can I have reason why he happened to be the only one for that job?

Did Islam suggest any other person apart from Him?

Omo abi ipabe, your brother said:

Dude,  I am sure all that makes sense in some wack ways to you ,  but I suggest that next time you ACTUALLY pick up a bible, you read it in PLAIN ENGLISH or better still PLAIN Yoruba as if you were reading a book and maybe, just maybe, you might come to learn how your post here makes absolutely no sense when put beside what is actually written down in the Bible. I mentioned that ordinary historians who themselves are not even christians read the book and know the very reason why Jesus is the only one who can kill the ANTI-CHRIST.

I asked him to supply me the reason

Quote from: babs787 on Today at 06:36:58 PM
Can I also have the story of anti-christ from your bible and how Jesus will kill anti-christ.

Hehehe. . . so with all your arrogance of Bible study and being a former 'Christian', you have forgotten the Biblical exegesis on that one and now begging to be taught yet again!   I hear.

Mumu, I asked you so give it to me from your bible.

Quote from: babs787 on Today at 06:36:58 PM
I still need that please or you supply me same here.

Stop pretending to pinch your navel. Go to the Bibel and produce your worst nightmare on the subject. Christians do not wait for Muslims to bring anything out of the untuchable Qur'an and fabricated Hadiths. We go directly nto your holy writs and bring out the issues you have been hiding in pretended scholarship as if nobody would check them out!

Do you mean bible? Stop deceiving yourself, are you afraid to touch your bible again? Havent you been lifting verses from there since; let me have the story from your bible.

Babs787, please no vex again O. . . abeg, I dey wait for your LIE that the Qur'an came to CORRECT the Bible!  WHERE did 'Allah' or Muhammad give you that assignment to come in a public Forum and LIE like that, when as a matter of FACT, the Qur'an confesses that it came to CONFIRM the Biblical scriptures?

But you have been shown that your bible is corrupt and can not be relied upon as the real message God gave to Moses and Jesus.
It has done that and that is just the reason we have been able to give you detailed, unadulterated stories from the Quran as againt the bible that is having contradictions, missing verses etc

@pilgrim



It is quite shameful that you couldnt provide answers to my questions on Jesus dying for your sins.It seems you dont post lenghty rejoinder like you used to, it shows that you are running out of point and your fraud is beginning to overtake you.

Lol. . . don't amuse us. Kindly ask Muhammad to produce his own proof if he was truthful!

I knew that you would misfired. Is this all you have to say? Common, you have been preaching that Jesus is the way, the saviour and one should accept him and my God asked you to provide your proof if you think that Muslims will not gain paradise and that it is you christians that will gain paradise

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 01:09:16 PM
Quran 2v136: say (o muslims) we believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Ismail (Ishmael), Yaqub (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat (the offspring of the twelve sons of Yaqub (Jacob) and that which has been given to Musa (Moses) and Isa (Jesus) and that which has been given to the prophets frm their Lord, we make no distinction between any of them and to Him we have submitted (in Islam).

Hmmm. . . Muslims and their duplicity! No vex O. . . but just one thing I wish to know:

Do Muslims really believe in that which "the prophets" have received by revelations from the LORD?

We shall see how that verse stands after your denials.

Ok we do and do serve me the sayings of prophets that muslims have been denying. Let me have the direct sayings of the prophets and not words of historians, letters of udentified people etc.

@Pilgrim

If it was a matter of the etymology of the word 'Allah' as appellation of the Deity who is worshipped by men, then I would say that not everyone who calls the name "ALLAH" is referring to the Muslim deity.

It seems she is confused

That said, we know that the Muslim deity which Muhammad preached has no control over anybody - and certainly not over me! He has no power to save, deliver or heal - Muhammad only stole the Biblical narratives of the MIRACLES in the Bible and added his own tales to them! Muslims who claim that Muhammad performed any miracles, should understand that even 'ALLAH' in his Qur'an is completely UNAWARE that such a thing ever happened - and yet he is said to be ALL-knowing!!

Mumu, how did an illiterate copy the bible? Did he copy catholic bible, protestant bible or jehovah witness bible and which version did he copy; is KJV, RSV, Amplified bible, Holy Bible, Good News Bible, NIT, etc because there are verses missing in them and also we have contradictions. So let me have the one he copied.

Oh, really? Let me remind you: the same Islamic 'Allah' has not yet made his slaves in Islam to shun the idolatry or building mosques over the graves and tombs of Islamic persons! Nor has that 'allah' made his slaves in Islam to stop the indiscrimate killing and waiting to be rewarded with more sex with 72 virgins in Jannah! If the slaves of 'Allah' was observing how Muhammad's companions were committing coitus interruptus while Muhammad went about his adventures, then the same Muhammad adjudged that there was no blame to them - to these people who were indiscriminately committing fornication so lewdly! "Righteous slaves" indeed.

Are you making sense at all? Have you read your bible from Genesis to revelation before typing nonsense here? If you havent let me know so that I serve you verses where killing spree, incest, sex by force, forceful marriage is being practised

You wan take style arrive at the Fire before Muhammad wake up?

Do you have any p;oint here. It seems you keep getting tired each day. Are you running out of your hogwash . You have been provided detailed explanation on that your nightmare

Please read the Bible carefully before you spew your gutters. I have challenged you guys so many times to go read the Bible instead of seeking some verses out of context with which to attack Christianity!

Do you have the verse from the NT where he told you to worship him, accept him as your personal saviour and your other garbage? You are even making reference to the corrupt book in which you have not been able to find answer to the authorship of your book.

Oh yes, I have several verses that meet your request. But as sson as you deny them again and rubbish your scholarship, I will gladly serve them. . . after bleaching you, of course!

Ok, please do the needful

Oh come on! So many Muslims attack the God of the OT so conveniently and yet come back to claim that the same OT God sent Muhammad as a prophet whose name could be found in Deuteronomy without evidence! That being so, let such Muslims understand that the same OT God will judge Muhammad. . . and for those who ridicule Jesus Christ by slyly castigating Him as the merciless God of the OT, Muhammad will stand before Jesus Christ to be judged! You bet it will happen exactly like that!

How did they castigate Jesus. Let me have some of your allegation and I will give you biblical verses supporting same. You are making a big mistakle by thinking that Jesus happens to be OT God because I will serve you verses showing that they can never be the same.

Excuse me? If God Almighty guides his tongue, was that the reason why Muhammad coughed and cold not pronounce the Name of Jesus Christ once during his prayers?

Dont you know that the name of Jesus you keep mentioning is the work of the demon? You know give glory and worship creation instead of the creator.

Please come again and deny the fact O. . . so that I will walk you through Islam 401!!

Ok, let me have your garbage o

Abeg make I hear word! Islam has no power to bless no soul - I knew the difference after I became a Christian.

Really. You got to know your mistake because you will gain nothing by accepting Jesus because he was not sent to you, didnt die for you and was not your saviour. You will have nothing on that day if you dont have Islam because Jesus was a Muslim and if you want to deny that, let me have any verse from the bible that shows that he was a christian.

Sorry, no Christian is shamed - and no threat from 'Allah' in Islam is going to shake any Christian! You should be praying fervently to the true God who saves and loves people so that the Islamic 'Allah' will not send your soul to Hell.

You will surely occupy Hell fire because you have heard about Islam and there will be no excise for you on that. What true God are you referring to? You called God sending an innocent (or part of himself) boy to die for sin committed thousand of years by his forefathers a loving God. Common, stop decieing yourself and open your eyes to the truth

Please stop embarrassing yourself any further on this issue and pretending not to know the FACT that Muslims will ENTER Hell Fire. . . even though Muhammad said they will be brought out of the Fire. You wan LIE again? Soon, my dear. . . soon. I go wait a bit more before I show you what Muhammad claimed for you as a Muslim - and whether you like it or not, no AL-Harm-dudu-LIE will change the FACTS that you as a Muslim will first enter amnd roast before hoping to come out of hell (that is, if you will survive the flames!).

You dont have to wait any longer, do the needful by serving me part of your lies

Thank you - I already opened my heart and Jesus saved me - years ago!

He couldnt save himself let alone saving you.

He has done that for me - so blessedly! And who is the WAY? Jesus Christ is the WAY the Truth and the Life!

All prophets happened to be the way, truth and life for their community during their time and Jesus told you that as long as he is still in the worlrd, he remained the light of the world but when he dies, another person takes over. So do not deceive yourself because the statement was said by Jesus

The Key to Hell fire is "Laa ilaha ilallah" - and for the generation of those who LIE, simply add these two chants:

(a) LIE-e-LIE, Ila-LIE, Muhammadanr was suru LIE!

(b) Al-Harm-dudu-LIE!!

There - just try chanting that and you will see a black harvester of souls behind you, gbam!

Meanwhile, the key to paradise is FAITH in the redemption which God Almighty has provided - which ALL the Biblical prophets spoke about - although Muhammad denied it one and all!!

Do not die as unbeliever bbecause there will be no opportunity for second life. If you have no Islam, you will be doomed for hell fire

Receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour, and your life will be so blessed you will ask what took you so long!

I already have Jesus believe in him as the slave and messenger of God, sent to the children of Israel, he didnt die let alone being crucified, he didnt die for anybody nor was he your saviour