₦airaland Forum

@dafidixone

@Adebowale is in your own thinking you know somethings are impossible for "allah" to do it is our own strong beleive that with 'God the Almighty, Father of Jesus Christ" nothing! absolutely nothing is impossible.

What God are you referring to? Is that of OT or NT because they are different from each and if you think that Jesus happened to be God of the OT too, then I will serve you contrdicting verses showing that Jesus can never be God of the OT and that the are very different from each other. If you still think that Jesus happens to be your God, then I will serve you verses where some things were impossible for him from your BIBLE!!

@kobojunkie

Dude, I am sure all that makes sense in some wack ways to you , but I suggest that next time you ACTUALLY pick up a bible, you read it in PLAIN ENGLISH or better still PLAIN Yoruba as if you were reading a book and maybe, just maybe, you might come to learn how your post here makes absolutely no sense when put beside what is actually written down in the Bible. I mentioned that ordinary historians who themselves are not even christians read the book and know the very reason why Jesus is the only one who can kill the ANTI-CHRIST.

Can I have reason why he happened to be the only one for that job? Can I also have the story of anti-christ from your bible and how Jesus will kill anti-christ.

Thanks

You come back with babbles that make so sense outside of your mind?? You seriously need to go learn how to read and please actually read a BIBLE. Sure they come in many languages but I doubt you have actually read one from that babbling up there. Again I urge you to READ IT, IT IS IN PLAIN ENGLISH and EXPLAINS WHY NO OTHER PERSON, NO PROPHET, not even the KIDS could Get Rid of the Antichrist. IT IS IN PLAIN CLEAR LANGUAGE FOR ALL PERSONS TO READ!!!!! AAARRRGGHHH!!!

I still need that please or you supply me same here.

@dafidizone

Insert Quote
@ Poster:

Time is wisdom.
The word of God lives for ever
I hope you will get this gist if you are truely wise

I doubt if you will ever answer to those false unfulfilled prophecies attributed to Jesus. That goes a long way to show that your BIBLE is corrupt. Most of the sayings attributed to Jesus are not his.

@pilgrim

Over to you

@pilgrim.1

If Muhammad was not man enough to read and acknowledge what was in the same Torah that he handled in his day and said he believed in, where does your spirituality begin? Is it not obvious that nobody except illiterates can take Muhammad seriously when he claimed to believe in all the prophets, wheras it is a known fact that he was denying what they had received from God?

what did they receive from God that he denied? It seems that you dont post garbage like you used to. Hope you are not running out of point?

You guys often throw allegations and stand aloof with irrelavant stories to substantiate your summations. Can we see a few of those same issues yet - the same issues I've been asking you guys to help us proffer answers to?

You are still here demanding for revelations when you have been served contradictions from the inspired book of God, missing verses, later insertions etc. I even gave you list of unfulfilled prophecies attributed to Jesus. Lastly, we all know that God gave Moses and Jesus revelation, do we say

1. God gave moses the Pentateuch?
2. Do we say the letters of Paul, third party sayings, etc is part of the revelation given to Jesus
4. Cna you please tell me what the revelation given to Jesus contains?
5. Can you tell me what the revelation given to Moses contains?

@sysuser

I also tried to use a parable to make you understand, please know that I am your FRIEND who is interested in making sure that you don't lose your Soul.

I am also your friend. I am saved but I am worried about you because believing in Jesus without accepting the last book and the last prophet will profit you nothing.

I even gave you a verse where I requested for your proof that you will be favored on that. If you do not have Islam, you will be among the loser on that day and I do not want that to happen to you hence my calling you.

If embarrassing myself for your sake would make you receive the gift of salvation through Christ I would gladly do it,

Brother, I already have Jesus and you would have been reading about him in my book.Jesus is not more than a slave and messenger of Allah sent for the children of Israel alone, he is not your God, he didnt cme to die for you let alone being crucified or resurrecting after the third day.

@pilgrim.1



Your dishonesty will not help you. You left the thread when questions were thrown at you only for you to resurrect later. Now since you are that deluded to thik straight,


1. What does the revelation given to Moses contain
2. What does the revelation given to Jesus contain

when you are able to provide these, I will show that we have the revelation given to Moses, Jesus and David in the glorious Quran.

since you are still denying the fact that your bible is corrupt,

1, Please do we say Catholic bible is not the word of God?
2. Do we say Jehovah witness is not the word of God
3. Which versions is really from God and when you supply me a version, I will give you missing verses in that, contradictions etc.
4. Do we count the word of historian, un-inspired words, third party statement as part of the revelation given to the prophets
5. Do we include letters of Paul as part of the revelation God gave to Jesus.


Thanks

@pilgrim.1

Since you have an incurable disease of deliberately casting aspersions on Christ and Christians, don't cry foul when you read very unpleasant things being said about Muhammad. That is not to say that I condone them or that I would be saying such. It is just a friendly warning to remind you that you only get as much as you invite in a public Forum.

You may cry from till eternity for all I care. Give me how muslims have been casting aspersions on Jesus and I will give you verses butressing same from your bible and Quran. You are free to start serving us your lies. Lets I forget, can you please tell me your biblical stand on Jinn?






@sysuser

1. Which of the two (christian and muslim) copied the other

2. Which of the two mentioned steps are correct

3. Which of the two researches is correct

You dont just post but back your statement with facts probably from your bible or Quran. You may do the needful by serving the correct steo and we will dig deep into the origin of the two religion.

Welcome to my world

@sysuser

Sorry, I took you for a female hence the use of 'sister' for you. . Take your time in reading the write-up on your inherited sin and other issues. I gave you that from my already preapred write-up. I pray that Allah open your heart to receiving the true message of Islam.

Secondly, let us please pray for olabowale, babs787 and other muslim, atheist, agnostic, muslim apologists, buddiest, babalawos. hindus etc , that they would be given and receive the free gift of eternal life through Christ Jesus.

Quran 2v11: And they say, ‘no one shall enter paradise unless he be a jew or christian’. These are their own desires. Say (O Muhammed SAW), ‘produce your proof if you are truthful.


Quran 2v136: say (o muslims) we believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Ismail (Ishmael), Yaqub (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat (the offspring of the twelve sons of Yaqub (Jacob) and that which has been given to Musa (Moses) and Isa (Jesus) and that which has been given to the prophets frm their Lord, we make no distinction between any of them and to Him we have submitted (in Islam).

Do you say that Jesus is a muslim?

Quran 2v140; or you say that Ibrahim (Abraham), Ismail (Ishmael), Yaqub (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat (the offspring of the twelve sons of Yaqub (Jacob) were jews or Christians? Say, ‘Do you know better or Allah does (know better … that they all were muslims) and who is more unjust than he who conceals the testimony (to believe in prophet Muhammad (saw) when he comes as t is written in their books (the scriptures), he has from Allah? And He is not unaware of what you do.


No any other religion before God:

Quran 3v19: truly the religion with Allah is islam. Those who were given the scripture (jews and Christians) did not differ except ought of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations etc) of Allah, then surely, Allah is swift in calling to account.


Quran 3v70: o people of the scripture (jews and Christians), why do you disbelieve in the Ayat of Allah (the verses about Muhammad (saw), present in the Taurat (taorah) and the Injeel (Gospel) while you (yourselves) bear witness (to their truth)

Quran 3v71: o people of the scripture, why do you mix truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know.


Quran 2v23: and if you (arab pagans, jews, Christians) are in doubt concerning that whch we have sent down (the Holy Quran) to our slave Muhammad (saw), then produce a surah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witness (supporters and helpers) besides Allah if you are truthful.


Quran 2v109: many of the people of the scripture (jews and Christians) wish that they could turn you away as disbelievers after you have believed, out of envy from their ownselves, even after the truth (that Muhammad saw is Alah’s messenger) has become manifest uto them. But forgive and overlook, till Allah brings His command. Verily Allah is able to do all things.


With regards to inherited sin:

Quran 74v38: every soul will be held in pledge for (all) its deed

Quran 17v15: whosoever choose to follow the right path, follows it but for his own good, and whoever goes astray, did to his own hurt, and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another’s burden. Wherever, we would never punish (any community for the wrong they may do) until we have sent an apostle to give warning.


Quran 4v111: and if one sins, he earns it against his soul for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.


The doctrine of man’s inherited sinfulness can be said, without slightest doubt, a doctrine never preached by the earlier biblical prophet but an idea of some later biblical characters (eg Paul). They at the same time, contradicted themselves on what they have raised somewhere else in the same bible. The two following quotations will easily disprove that, men are sinners or that man inherited sin from his parent.


Ezekiel 18v20: the soul that sin shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son, the righteous shall be upon himself.
OR
Romans 14v12: so then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

It therefore implies that the idea “none is righteous no, not one (Roman 3v9-12) is a fabrication, a naked fantastic lies, that is propagated with ignorance and fantasy. The following passages shows that some people are righteous and never born with any inheritable sin.

Mark 6v20: herod feared John knowing that he was a righteous and holy man.

Daniel 6v4: Daniel was faithful, no error or fault was found on him.

Luke 1v16: Zechariah and his wife were both righteous.

1st Samuel 12v3-5: Samuel never oppressed…he is free from all faults.

Mathew 1v19: Joseph was a just man



Questions for you please:


1. Why can God be unjust when he had sent many prophets to preach repentance? How can countless men inherit a sin they have never committed? And if sin means the breaking of God’s law (according to dictionary), which of the children of Adam had ever known anything called forbidden tree?.

2. Can a man allow himself to face firing squad for a sin he has never committed?

3. If God’s anger was kindled against Adam and Eve for their disobedience, could the anger persisted on to the generation of Adam and Eve. Remember this God’s action
psalm 30v5: for his anger endureth but a moment and his favour is for a life time.


4. If we could think over this statement very well, one could ask the protagonist of this doctrine, which kind of God is that who, because of a sin of two people, decided to condemn the entire humanity for the sin they never participated in nor knowing anything about?

Simply put, it is either men have not inherited any sins or that bible has told lie when it says as seen above that John, Daniel, Zechariah and his wife, Samuel, Joseph were all righteous men! Or are a sinners called righteous one in the bible?



Now consider the word carefully< somebody who is just is made to die for the unjust. What kind of injustice is that? One would start to ask. Supposing it is true that jesus die for the sin of mankind,

5. Why did God not send him immediately after the sin of Adam was committed?

6. for what purpose did he intend to delay the crucifixion till some thousand years after the event?

7. however, if jesus actually came to die for our sins and that salvation only lies in his blood sacrifice, why did he preach repentance in Mathew 4v17: repent for the kingdom of God is at hand?

8. if all person are under the stain of original sin as the Christian protagonist asserts, children are exempted by jesus because they are pure and inherited nothing as in Mathew 18v3-6; verily I say unto you, except ye be converted as little children, ye shall not enter the kingdom of God……, also in mark 10v14-15: ………. Suffer the little children to come unto me and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of God


If any one born of a woman cannot be clean (job 15v4) and that “all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (roman 3v27) or that “none is righteous” (roman 3v10), but if jesus was born by mary and if Adam was not deceived but the woman was deceived and became transgressor (1st timothy 2v14) then mary would be said to be unclean, unrighteous and have inherited the original sin from his predecessor and at last it would have been said that she would have be said to have transmitted the sin to jesus! So it is either there is no inherited sin or that jesus also inherited sin since he was born of a woman.

10. To put the argument further, is there in any old prophesies the idea of inherited sin or where it was mentioned that jesus will come and die for sin or where jesus mention in his ministry that in respect of the sin of Adam and Eve, had come to rid the earth of its nuisance and has eventually come to die for that sin.


11. the Christian also proof that jesus is Gid, we will ask, does God punish himself before he can forgive a sin done against him?


12. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, they were severely put under curse, the bible when quoting the judgment of God passed on Adam and Eve respectively goes as follows:
Genesis 3v14-19: and the lord said unto the serpent, because thou had done this, thou art cursed above all cattle and above every beast of the field, upon thy belly shall thou go and dust shall thou eat all the days of thy life………and unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your pain in child bearing, in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you, and to Adam he said, because you listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, you shall not eat of it, cursed is the ground because of you, in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life, thorns and thistles it shall bring forth to you and you shall the plant of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground………


Now from the judgment passed, it is observed that women are still labouring in pain during child bearing and men is still finding it tough to get their daily sustenance, but jesus died for the sin. How come the cursed has not been lifted since he came to die for the sin and cursed was placed. If he actually died for the sin, then there should have been any problem in those areas above. Explain please.


13. if Jesus himself had the notion of dying for the sin of man, why did he plead this way to God as in Mathew 26v38-39:…, my soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even unto death……….father, if it be possible, let this cup (death pass from me)?


14. if jesus came to die, why is he afraid of death as in john 11v53-54: then from that day forth, they took counsel together for to put him (jesus0 to death. Jesus thereafter walked no more openly among the jews…….


15. if he had prepared to die for the sins of man, why was Judas Iscariot named traitor?


16. why do we accuse pilate as the announcer of his sentence?


17. why do we accuse jews for handling him to do what he has come to do(death)?


Here is an elucidation, Adam and Eve committed sin, their grandson who is not aware of the sin was castigated despite the scripture advise in Deut 24v16: the father shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the sin of their fathers……, also in 2nd Chronicles 25v4: the father shall not be put to death for the children, or the children for the father……… also in Jeremiah 31v29-30: …………….everyone shall die for his own sin . see also Ezekiel 18v20-22: the soul that sin shall die. The son shall not die for the iniquity of the father nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son……………,


The above goes with illustration that:

1. if somebody has malaria and some treatment was prescribed, can the father take the treatment on behalf of the sick child?

2. or can a pastor be allowed to face a firing squad or be executed instead of a gangster of notorious armed robbers who actually committed the crime?




Based on the above, God does not need any blood sacrifice before he can forgive sins of man as in

Hosea 6v6:for I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice…,

Isaiah 55v7: let the wicked forsake his way…,

2nd chronicles 7v14: if my people which are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray and seek my face ad turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and I will forgive their sins.

Here there is no place where there is mentioned of blood sacrifice , God desired mercy but was input by Pauline Christianity (read gospel of barnabas, he saw jesus during his lifetime), unlike paul that didn’t see jesus but act contrary to his teaching. (coming soon). Jesus did not even mention any blood anywhere but also this paul who lied that he saw Jesus! Jesus during his lifetime preached oneness of God and how merciful and forgiven God is if only u can do away with your sin and not blood anywhere.Also see the Quran


Quran 39v53-54: say o my servants who have sinned against their souls, despair not of the mercy of Allah, surely Allah forgives all sins, verily, He is most forgiving, most merciful and turn to your Lord and submit yourselves to him before there comes unto you the punishment, for then you shall not be helped and follow the best teaching that has been revealed to you from your Lord, before the punishment comes upon you suddenly when you perceive not.

Note; he forgives all sins except polytheists like Christians, three in one God 1+1+1=3


I pray you see the light.

Maa Salam

@sysuser

I was about sending my post when I saw your last post.Let me respond to it along with your former post but will be back wne I am less busy.I will send you another post after this very one.

First and foremost , let any True Christian make sure he ensures that him/her is right with God so that we do not end up in hell like the muslims and other non believers. Because winning an argument against them is good or preaching to them that they may be saved is great, but that we ourselves would not be a castaway, but that we would rather make it to HEAVEN (of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacon) is the best

A question for you from the creator:
Quran 2v11: And they say, ‘no one shall enter paradise unless he be a jew or christian’. These are their own desires. Say (O Muhammed SAW), ‘produce your proof if you are truthful.

allah IS NOT LORD GOD ALMIGHTY

Ok. Let us read on

Again let me give you bible verse(es) and exhortation that show the false worship and believe as practised by muslims:

Okay

Take note muslims face the east (the sun or at least the rising of the sun) for their prayers and commit violence in the name of their false god called allah,

Hold it please . Is facing east your problem? Now if you care to know the way muslims pray signfies unity, we face east, we pray five times daily prayer, recite the same number of Quran, Surah Fatiah and any other verses etc unlike christians that faces wherever they feel like, build church wherever they feel like, read diferent versions depending on the one pastor acknowledges.

In addition, It seems you do not read your bible because if you do, you wouldnt come here and be posting whatever you feel like. Go through your bible and read how God commanded the killing of innocent children, women and even animals and still told them to keep virgins to themselves!.

now compare the abomination that muslims are doing to what the bible has to say in the book of Ezekiel.

Okay, let us read together.

Eze 8:15  Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
Eze 8:16  And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
Eze 8:17  Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose.
Eze 8:18  Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.

So you see that (ignorant or conscious worship of the sun / demons / devil) is what you muslims are doing. Also by your constant jihad and violence you have filled the land with violence, just like in Eze 8:17

Sister, why do christians read the bible yet interprete it wrongly? Do you think that you can just be lifting verses frm your bible and give them your own meaning without having a re-think that other party might as well have little knowledge about what you are to twist and and make it fit the issue at hand? Funny enough, your brother, focused is here congratulating your dishonesty by lifting verses from the bible and giving same your own meaning.

Now, which came first, the bible or the Quran? Who was God talking to in that verse and please were those people muslims?
Was the house of Judah a muslim?Ponder on highlighted words and let me know your comment. When you are able to provide honest response without giving the verses a wrong meaning, I will come in and let you know what the verses are saying and will then take us to your so called EASTER CELEBRATION which happened to be the worshiping of one Tamud and that is exactly what the verses will lead us to.

Please I beg in you Repent, Confess your sins and accept the Lord Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, it doesn't matter whether or not you are born into Islam at least you now know the truth, don't continue in this abomination and sinful way of life.

Sister, stop deceiving yourself. You will not gain anything if you accept Jesus as your saviour because he never told you to do so. Moreover, he wasnt sent to you because you are not a Jew and mind you, I have tasted what you are calling the truth and can confidently tell you that nothing for you unless you become a muslim. Islam is the only truth and the only religion God will accept on that day. I wonder what will be your fate when the prophets gather their people (the community set to) and Jesus happens to be among the Jews and you having nobody to turn to.

Lest I forget, hope you are aware that punishment starts from the day one dies. What will be your response when you are being asked, who is your God, what is your religion and what do you know about prophet Muhammad. Please do not be deceived, I am ready if you are willing to discuss everything about Jesus christ with regards to his death, crucifixion, resurrection, being your saviour, coming to die for your sin, being one of the three Gods etc

It is might be possible to forcefully convert people to little islam, yet in the long run it is not sustainable as the TRUTH WILL ALSO PREVAIL (The lies and deceit of islam (via mohammed, allah et al) becomes understandable when one realises that it is very dangerous for the life of  someone to convert away from islam. So that fear of repercussion would make people continue in what they blatantly know is a false belief.

What truth are you referring to? Have you been able tp provide the lies you have been crying all these while? Truth stands from falsehood but it is only the proud, arrogant and what have you rejects the truth About Islamic montheism. You may go to search and find out the origin of the so called christianity, the origin of the cross, the trinity etc. The real authors of the so called gospels and you would be shocked that christianity has been a fraud and will always be because Jesus had no knowledge of it.

It is not a coincidence that the prophecies of the bible about the end of days are coming to pass, it is not a coincidence the Christians still exist and are going to exist and reign with Christ despite the amount of killing, persecution, matrydom, estrangement , jailing , condemnation they have faced and are still facing from either their friends,family, relations, work place, country, government, kingdom.

Where did you cull that from (christians reigning with Jesus). Dhould I give you prophecies attributed to Jesus but has never come to pass?
Can you show me in the bible where the word' christians' was iused by Jesus an was Jesus a christian as well?

Sister, do not deceive yourself into believing that Jesus will be there for you on that day. Let me have a verse that say he is your saviour and I will give you another verse from the bible showing that he is not your saviour. Serve me a verse that says he died for you and I will give another verse still form your bible saying that he didnt die for you. Let me also have a verse about his crucifixion and I will give you contradicting verse on same etc. That goes to show you that the bible was not inspired and not the same as the revelation given to Moses, Jesus and David.

Read your bible on the wars fought by early prophets, the killing spree, the keeping of virgin etc and come back denying same from your bible.

I am happy to tell you that another prophecy would soon come to pass the prophecy is that about to be fufilled:

Ok. Let us read that from you

[Rev 11:15  And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

What is so special about rhe hallucination of John in which you took so important. Very soon, I will expose the lies of John and you would see that sayings of John can not in any way be relied upon. Can I have similar saying from the mouth of Jesus showing that he would be your saviour on that day?

Please olabowale , the truth is that I would rather to you win the argument, satisfy your flesh and but that the Holy Spirit convinces you and wins your Soul for Christ , because at the end of the day. There is much joy in heaven for every soul that is saved, your souls are more important that the argment about whether or not you believe that allah, quran, mohammed are false.

Abegi, Jesus will profit you nothing by accepting him as your saviour and Lord except accepting the last prophet and the last book. If any person desire any other religion apart from Islam, it will never be accepted from him and he will among the loser on that day. I dont want you to be one of the losers hence my begging you to accept Islam. If you have been the topics here, you would have seen that the bible is nothing to be relied on and cannot be held to be true words of Jesus christ. It was compiled by those that had no knowledge of what really happened hence the glaring contradictions in your bible. Have you not seen the missing verses in some versions and later insertion of same, the plagiarism, the unablitity to lay hanbds on the real authors of the so called chapters of the bible etc.

Common wise up, enough of this deceit. Accept Islam today, tomorrow may be too lte.

I pray that God in His Mercies would have mercy on you and let His Holy Spirit bring you to understanding, repentances and salvation of your souls. Salvation does not come from how many good works you have done , salvation does not come from the excuse of knowing the truth, It is written "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one commeth to the Father except through me" Jesus is only way to God, not mohammed, not allah, not five daily prayers, not saka, saraa, not by going to stone the devil in saudi arabia, not by wearing skimpy trousers, not by keeping long beards, not by not drinking alcohol, not by not smoking, not by not having sex, not by giving people alms, etc all those things are works of righteousness , unfortunately it is written that "they are filthy rags before God". God's free gift of salvation through Christ is free ,  it cannot be bought or earned through allah, not through mohammed, not through suicide bombing, not through jihad, not through political power, not through being moral, instead it is simlpy through JESUS CHRIST, the one and only begotten of the FATHER.

No one can come to Jesus except God draws him. Was he the only truth, way and light. the words might not have been used for other prophets but they have been same too because they came to lead people and direct them to the worshipping of one creator and not mixing truth with falsehood, not worshipping three Gods etc. If you are ready for that, you can open thread for that topic, 'Jesus as the way, truth and life' and I will give you verses from the bible that shows that all prophets have been same and that the words spoken by Jesus gives life and not himself. The words gives life because its from God and so is the same with other prophets. So dont come and try blind folding us here with outdated verses. Also I will sincerely appreciate it if you can give me another chapter or verses apart from those written by John where the word 'the only BEGOTTEN SON IS USED'  for Jesus.

[Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: ]

Hope you know that faith without work cannot save you. Paul brought salvation for lazy people like you, telling you that by believing in him alone, you would be saved.
Now a man went to Jesus and ask him what things he must do to be saved and Jesus told him that the only way for him to see paradise is to keep the commandment and not that relax, my blood is there for you, just believe and you would be saved. Jesus told the man that he will only be saved if he could keep the commandments and if we are saying the commandments, we are referring to the commandments God gave to Moses to be followed by everybody but we learnt that christians have nailed it to the cross holding onto the false message of Paul, telling them that they would be saved as long they believe in Jesus christ. What a shame!!

Look if you afraid of losing all your comforts, pleasures, pride and priviledges , ask yourself which is more important. Is it your soul or the worldly riches. [Mar 8:36  For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?]

I think that the above verse goes to entire christians. What shall it profit a man who gain the whole world and lose his soul? You will not be able to gain salvation without keeping the commandments as against the false foundation laid down by Paul.

neither mohammed  nor allah has promised you anything that you can trust, the heaven (actually hell) that they have promised you is nothing but false sexual and materialistic desires (virgins for what) .

I have now seen that you are not worth replying because you have no knowledge of what you have been typing. Go to the Quran and read about heaven and Hell there, the promise to believers and punishment for unbelievers.

The heaven that Jesus Christ is promising you is true, in the heaven Jesus Christ has promise there os no marriage no sex :

Okay.

[Mat 22:24  Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
Mat 22:25  Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:
Mat 22:26  Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.
Mat 22:27  And last of all the woman died also.
Mat 22:28  Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
Mat 22:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Mat 22:30  For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Since there will be no sex (male or female0 in heaven, how come the 14400 jews in heaven?

[Joh 14:2  In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. ]

Na lie. Jesus couldnt guarantee paradise for someone when his someone requested that her son be granted paradise but Jesus he couldnt do that. Do you want me to gi e you that verse?

[Rev 21:1  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.] Jesus Christ has promised you for a certainty what you are going to have waiting for you as a believer:
[Rev 21:2  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. ]
[Rev 21:10  And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11  Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12  And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev 21:13  On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
Rev 21:14  And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Rev 21:15  And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
Rev 21:16  And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
Rev 21:17  And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
Rev 21:18  And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
Rev 21:19  And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
Rev 21:20  The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
Rev 21:21  And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
Rev 21:22  And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23  And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 21:24  And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:25  And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Rev 21:26  And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
Rev 21:27  And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. ]

Sister, it seems you will need to explain, the spirits with seven horns, seven  heads, lamb, etc

Please olabowale I beg you not to waste your soul , because it is appointment unto man to die once after that judgment. There are a lot of examples and testimonies out there that would convince you about the deceit of islam, mohammed, allah and about the TRUTH OF CHRIST AND THE BIBLE . People like Hitler,mohammed and alexander the great don't have the chance of a salvation that you now have through Christ , please take it,  You can get countless fufillment of bible prophesy if you earnestly seek them , so please don't waste your life and soul, Good as given you a free gift of salvation:

Sister, you are still here decieving yourself with your corrupt bible, missing verses in it, contradictions, plagiarism etc. Common, dont give me that crap, your bible was not inspired but writtten by pagans and I can proof if it requested.

[Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. ]

[Rom 5:15  But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. ]

[Act 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. ]

[Rom 5:16  And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. ]

[Rom 5:17  For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) ]

[2Co 9:15  Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift. ]

I am not surprised at your quoting Paul, the number one enemy of Jesus christ. Remember that he contradicted himself when he said that only him heard Jesus' voice and in another verse said all heard his voice. Why not give me Jesus' saying in which I will be more comfortable with. This liar Paul didnt surprise me ecause he made it known that he was saying all these according to his own Gospel:


1st Corinthians 15v3-4: for I delivered to you first of all that which I ALSO RECEIVED, that Christ died for our sins according to the SCRIPTURES. And that he was buried and that he rose again the third day according to the SCRIPTURES.

One wonder what scriptures this self-appointed thirteenth disciples is referring to. Thank God he has provided the answer.

2nd timothy 2v8: remember that jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my GOSPEL.


Sorry for not beeing able to provide detailed rebuttal but will do that when I am less busy and you provide your response to my post.

Accept Islam today, tomorrow may be too late.

Thanks

@SysUser


Funny how you lift verses without proper understanding. You lifted verses where they worshipped sun, forgetting that that led to your EASTER CELEBRATION. Go to the thread and you will read your response therein but when I am less busy, I will still provide additional verses from your bible to show you what christianity is all about.

@pilgrim.1


[quote]By the way, just as you equate the Jinn to 'Demon' in parenthesis, how do you defend Muhammad's idea that some Jinns in Medina had accepted Islam - which would have the same meaning as saying that 'some demons' in Medina had accepted Islam? In other instances, it is said that the Jinns had become Muslims - much like saying that the devils had become Muslims! [Reference: Malik's Muwatta, Book 54, Hadith 54.12.33; Sahih Muslim, Book 043, Num.7182]. How do demons "accept" Islam and become Muslims when in very fact no Muslim has seen a demon practice Muhammad's religion? Do demons do wudu (ablution), pay the compulsory Zakat, or offer salat (Muslim prayers) as well? [quote][/quote]I know that pilgrim will soon surface with her biblical explanation of what demon/jinn is?We are now seeing it clearly that their bible told them nothing just like Jesus that came and didnt tell them everything but told them that he would go so that the comforter would come, the comforter came telling them what their bible kept mute on, yet they refused accepting the truth. You can imagine a person asking me how does jinn perform ablution!! A formal practising muslim for that matter

@panafrica

I heard that the night before the ramadan or the tabaski ,the sale of beer reaches its pick.
True or false?
Do not take it as an insult and declare crazy jihad on anybody .

Quran 5 v 90: O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks) and gambling and arrows for seeking luck or decision are an abomination of satan’s handwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful.


Quran 5 v 91: satan wants only to excite enmity and hatred between you with intoxicants (alcoholic drinks) and gambling and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah and from Solat. So will you then not abstain?


Quran 3 v 110: You (true believers in Islamic monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammed saw and his Sunnah) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind. You enjoin doing good and forbid polytheism, disbelief and all that Islam has forbidden, and you believe in Allah. Amd had the people of the Scriptures believed, it would have been better for them, among them are some who have faith but most of them are disobedient to Allah and rebellious against Allah’s command.


Are you satisfied now ?

@Pilgrim

I am very used to your usual dribbling but that will not in anyway help you. Let me combine your posts and lecture you on jinn that your bible never told you about. You find it so hard to see reverts huh, common, if you still need more, i can give you and can even give you names of some former pastors that have seen light.

There's nothing in uspry1's answer to warrant your switch to the crucifixion or tying to the stake. The subject is simply about whether the "pictures" being circulated today about the image/imagery of Jesus are real - not about whether or not the "Crucifixion" is real.

I think you are the one getting it wrong. Go have a look at the topic of this thread and ask yourself if my response went against it.

The thread is about the pics of Jesus and I told her that you would know that there is no real picture of him from all we have been seeing. You may go back and re-read yourself.Let me have one and I will give you another that is different from the one you are shwoing.

I almost forgot, which mosque did you lift the paintings from and which home? Can you show me some from Mecca or Medinah? Keep searching going in circles when you have nothing to offer.

When you turn to Revelation 1:12-16, you find the apocalyptic [/i]description[/i] of Jesus Christ in His character as One who stands to scrutinize the seven Churches in Asia - these churches being representative of the condition of all the Churches through the ages. The reason why you suppose that the apostle John "didn't succeed" is because Islam is completely bereft of any spiritual foresight into the revelations of God.

Keep deflecting thread. This is her quote

The apostle John made an attempt to describe him in Revelation 1:12-16.

You may please tell me if he actually succeeded or not.

Where do you get your "categorical" ideas from if not from the phobias of Muhammad?

Does your bible have any answer to that?

This is another confirmation of the fact that Islam has no understanding of the spiritual world. How do you come about the Jinn living up to 80,000 years when in fact demons are spirit beings that do not die or are being "killed" as men are? This fallacy of demons dying or being killed was entirely Muhammad's fancies and has nothing to do with reality - because just about anything Muhammad dreamt up happened to be the building blocks of his religion. His personal phobias have been thrashed by Muslims all around the world, and many Muslim scholars today are too embarrassed to publicly admit that most of Muhammad's ideas are irrational even to the Muslim mind.

Now let me ask you some questions

1. What is the biblical stand on demons/Jinn
2. Do you have from your bible, how demon is created or came into existence
3. Is there any different between angel and demon and if they , can you please tell me the difference and the relationship?
4. Do you any biblical proof that demon will live for ever?
5. I will serve others when I remember

By the way, just as you equate the Jinn to 'Demon' in parenthesis, how do you defend Muhammad's idea that some Jinns in Medina had accepted Islam - which would have the same meaning as saying that 'some demons' in Medina had accepted Islam? In other instances, it is said that the Jinns had become Muslims - much like saying that the devils had become Muslims! [Reference: Malik's Muwatta, Book 54, Hadith 54.12.33; Sahih Muslim, Book 043, Num.7182]. How do demons "accept" Islam and become Muslims when in very fact no Muslim has seen a demon practice Muhammad's religion? Do demons do wudu (ablution), pay the compulsory Zakat, or offer salat (Muslim prayers) as well?

I can see now that you were a lazy muslim if at all you had been. How could someone be asking a question that how does jinn perform ablution? Does this makes sense to you at all? Now, get yourself ready and read about what your bible never told you and will never known as long as you are a christian.



Jinn


Jinn are a distinct creation of Allah, who are invisible to humans. Allah created them from the pure flame of fire. They are male and female and have offspring. They exist here on earth and out of it. Like humans, some jinn worship Allah, but some do not. The ones who do not are known as the devils, whose head is Satan. They are different from angels that happened to be another distinct creation of Allah. They are not male or female and have no children. Allah created them from light. They never sin, obeying Allah in every matter. Humans have angels near them that record all they do. Some angels have appeared to men in the form of men but they never take a woman's shape.


The jinn have free will like mankind. This invisibility is one of the reasons why some people have denied their existence. The origins of the Jinn can be traced from the Qur'an :

"Indeed We created man from dried clay of black smooth mud. And We created the Jinn before that from the smokeless flame of fire"
[Surah Al-Hijr 15:26-27]


The Jinn were created before man.Because they were created from fire, their nature has generally been fiery and thus their relationship with man has been built upon this. Like humans, they too are required to worship Allah and follow Islam. Their purpose in life is exactly the same as ours, as Allah says:

"I did not create the Jinn and mankind except to worship Me"
[Surah Ad-Dhariyat, 51:56]

Jinns can thus be Muslims or non-Muslims. The disbelieving Jinns are also called Shaitans (devils). As for the Jinns who become Muslims, then the first of them did so in the time of the Prophet when a group of them were amazed by the recitation of the Qur'an. Allah orders the Prophet to tell the people of this event:

"Say (O' Muhammad): It has been revealed to me that a group of Jinn listened and said; 'Indeed we have heard a marvellous Qur'an. It guides unto righteousness so we have believed in it, and we will never make partners with our lord'"
[Surah Al-Jinn, 72:1-2]

Allah Almighty says, “And among us there are righteous folk and among us there are far from that. We are sects having different rules.” (Al-Jinn: 11) “And there are among us some who have surrendered (to Allah) and there are among us some who are unjust. And whoso hath surrendered to Allah, such have taken the right path purposefully.” (Al-Jinn: 14)

Quote from: babs787 on December 20, 2007, 03:39 PM
and Jesus' mother, Mary was around when they showed her one of the pictures and she declined that that couldnt have been her son.

Another fabrication of Muhammad. How did he come about that idea if not that he was dreaming it up? What do you mean by "pictures" - and who showed Mary those pictures?

Now in order not to waste valuable time arguing ignorantly with you, I will kindly refer you to these links where you will be able to upgrade yourself and see that your bible will never be able to stand the Quran. I dont reallt blame you cos the bible was written by those that knew nothing and never inspired.

Happy reading

http://www.geocities.com/mutmainaa/belief/jinn.html?200722#Footnotes

http://www.geocities.com/mutmainaa/belief/jinn.html

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543990

Accept Islam before its too late.

Maa salam

@Jagunlabi

Yeah,except for the cruel sins of his butcher papa.He tried to wash away the blood of innocent people murdered by his father with his own blood!!!How perverse can one be?

I tire o. Adam committed sin hundred of years, Jesus didnt come directly to clean that sin but had to wait after thousands of prophets. I thought God is a merciful one that doesnt punish a man for the sin of his son and vice versa .

Jesus that came to die and very aware of his mission, cried on the cross to himself thus 'my God, my God, why has thiu forsaken me'?

@Nwando


Here you are. You are free to go through those links and read their testimonies just like I have been doing here about my journey from darkness (christianity to light (Islam)


@Pilgrim 1 and your folks.

You know that I have been telling you that I was once like you before I got reverted to Islam and I mentioned about my aged father during Ramadhan as well and made mention of how he tried to cover his years living as a christian by giving pre-dawn meal and arranging Iftah for people during the ramandhan and when asked the reason for that, he said that he had made mistake in the past and tried making atonement for it so that he wouldnt have much question to answer on that day.

Now, you may deceive others but you can and will never be able to deceive those that have accepted the truth here.

In addition if you, Babs is ready to treat with you the topics below

1. Jesus didnt die for your sin
2. Jesus didnt die let alone resurrecting after the third day.
3. Jesus was sent to Israelite alone.
4. Jesus wasnt a christian, neither his disciples and they never heard nor called same during his ministry.
5. Inherited sinful nature of man
6. Trinity is false that its origin can never be accountable for.
7. Jesus is not God neither part of God.


What again oo, remind me pls and if you are ready for you, we will use one or two versions to explain the issues.

Note that most of the explanation wil be from your bible and Quran will only act as a judge.

Welcome to my world

Insert Quote
Is it compulsory for a born again christian to speak in tongues? If yes, what can i do to speak in tongue, i've been praying for it but to no avail.

@Kobojunkie


You may try ignoring my post but the truth has been pointed out for all of you to see.
Go through my posts again where I gave you those that would not be accountable for anything.

Now, are you saying that children, babiesm foetus are sinners being born with sin?

to all christians


1. Why can God be unjust when he had sent many prophets to preach repentance? How can countless men inherit a sin they have never committed? And if sin means the breaking of God’s law (according to dictionary), which of the children of Adam had ever known anything called forbidden tree?.

2. Can a man allow himself to face firing squad for a sin he has never committed?

3. If God’s anger was kindled against Adam and Eve for their disobedience, could the anger persisted on to the generation of Adam and Eve. Remember this God’s action
psalm 30v5: for his anger endureth but a moment and his favour is for a life time.

4. By raising the notion that men are born sinners, Christianity as a religion has made mockery of God’s love, forgiving capacity, forbearance in accepting our repentance and all out-let for the redemption of mankind through his mercy.

5. If men are born sinners, the coming of Jesus at the end of the world to die for the sins of men is equally stupefying.

6. If we could think over this statement very well, one could ask the protagonist of this doctrine, which kind of God is that who, because of a sin of two people, decided to condemn the entire humanity for the sin they never participated in nor knowing anything about?

7. Simply put, it is either men have not inherited any sins or that bible has told lie when it says as seen above that John, Daniel, Zechariah and his wife, Samuel, Joseph were all righteous men! Or are a sinners called righteous one in the bible?


and the second part will come after you might have answered this very post.

@Tayo-d


babs787,

I have helped you already to understand simple timeline from my response above. Jesus identified Himself to the troops only after Judas betrayed Him already with a kiss. That fact is very clear.

You havent but making obvious denial. The denial there was Judas leading them to where Jesus was. The arrest wouldnt have been possible if done in the presence of crowd but had to use Judas that knew when he would be lonely.

First you claim I should show you the scripture which I did. Instead of you to acknowledge the fact that indeed jesus does not need swords to defend Himself, you are claiming there is no way He could have defended Himself without His creator. If I may ask, is it not the same Creator who confirmed that Jesus willingnly submitted Himself to death on the cross by displaying such power that caused the entire troop to fall just by the spoken word of Jesus?

Brother, Why did he tell them that it was enough when shown the sword?
Jesus couldnt save himself hence his begging his creator and let me have the verses where the creator authorised his death by crucifixion.

He didn't rebuke Peter the same way He would not rebuke me today if I carry a gun around legitimately. I'll answer the questions about sword separately after this.

But why did he say it was enough when shown same when he wasnt referring to a physical sword?

If I should provide you with all the scriptures that showed Jesus expressly talking about His death and that He came to die, we would have to keep turning pages on this topic.

You may carry on please. I want you to know that he never bargained for crucifixion and if you think he did, let me have any of his prediction on death by hanging.

Again, your lack of knowledge of the Bible is evident from the statement.

Is that what you think/ How many years have you been reading the bible and I will tell you that I read it more than you do and I am still reading.

It is one thing to be killed and it is another to die at the right time. The right time was after the Garden of Gethsemane which is the only reason why Jesus gave Himself up to the troops.

No brother, he didnt give himself up willingly. Remember his prayer that should lift the cup from him and we learnt in another verse that 'the fervent prayer of the righteous availeth much'. God heard his prayer and couldnt allow him to die such a humiliating death. He didnt want to die, he positioned his dicsiples and tell them to keep watching the enemies. Lastly on the cross, he shouted, 'my God, my God, why has thou forsaken". To you, what does that means if he actually wanted to die?

Again, your ignorance of the scriptures shines through here. Jesus never cried 'why has thou forsaken me when the Jews wanted to kill Him. Rather, that statement was made on the cross after he was crucified by the Romans. And in any case, His statement of "Why has thou forsaken me" is what is called a rhetorical question. I trust you know what that means?

I dont and you may please lecture me on that. If he was willing to die and knew what he came to do, why did he shouted to God and cried 'my God, why thou forsakeen me/ What did God forsake him for? How could someone that knew his mission be shouting God forsaking him!!!

Again, you are going on rampage with ignorance here.

You are the one showing your ignorance and running away from the truth.

There are dozens of prophecies relating to Jesus' death and resurrection in the OT. Perhaps you want to start with the fact that His statement on the Cross of "why has thou forsaken me" is taken directly from the OT prophecy relating to Jesus in the Psalms. Maybe you should start from there.

You will be the third christian I will be asking this question. I asked cgift but no response yet and another chriatian. Please let me have the prophecy of his death, crucifixion and resurrecting after the third day from the OT.

Now let's provide some answers to the riddle that is turning your beard grey. The first thing we need to look at is the phrase "it is enough". What does it betoken? The best way to know is to see how the same phrase is used in other places. Let's look at Mark 14:41 - And he cometh the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold, the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

Brother, ma fi numi, mo mo je. Thou shall not lie or try giving the word of God another meaning. Why are you still denying the truth about the sword/ The verse should not be mistaken to be the same as that of Mark 14 v 41. Jesus told them to sell what they might be having and use it to buy sword.

But Peter showed and told him that he was having two swords.

Jesus after having been told of the physical sword with him, he said, it was enough.

Now, we all know that Jesus made the statement' it was enough' after being shown the sword and not your own roundabout argument. Jesus made that statement in relation to the sword he requested for.

In case you still missed, here it goes

38 Then they said: “Lord, look! here are two swords.” He said to them: “It is enough.”

They told him about the physical sword and he said that it was ok.


Now if he wasnt referring to the physical sword, he would have made it known from his response to he made to them when shown same.

It is clear from here that the phrase is just an expression to indicating that all things are already taken care of and needs no input from others.

Na lie. Read the whole verses again.

Otherwise, we might say that jesus statement ther is contradictory because on the one hand He said they should continue sleeping, and on the other He said "it is enough". The same phrase clearly shows also that Jesus wanted them to hold their peace, which is what He had in mind when the Disciples showed him 2 swords.

Dont bring that one here .


Let us re-read the verses again:


Luke 22v 36-38
36 Then he said to them: “But now let the one that has a purse take it up, likewise also a food pouch; and let the one having no sword sell his outer garment and buy one.


He told them here to sell whatever they are having and buy sword.



38 Then they said: “Lord, look! here are two swords.” He said to them: “It is enough.”

They showed him the sword and he told them that it was ok.

Can anything be as clear as this?

Now lets go to the Luke 22:
35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. 36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. 37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. 38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

l have highlighted the key words therein.

Now reading through the entire verse, one can safely conclude that Jesus was talking to at least 70 Disciples becuase it was the 70 he sent out without purse and scrip and shoes. You will find the reference in Luke 10. Now it beggars belief to say that Jesus said 2 swords are enough when He just told each of the 70 to get a sword. How can the two be reconciled? The only way is if He was not talking about the same thing. Jesus obviously meant the Word of God when He talked about buying swords. Anyone who knwos the Bible know very well that the sword is interchangeable with the Word of God. And the fact that Jesus stopped Peter from bloodshed and even healed the man that was struck only supports this notion further.

Haba brother, why these deception? Do you have your proof that he was talking to 70 people at that time and please why did he make the statement after he was shown the sword. If he was not referring to physical swords, he would have rebuked Peter for showing him that and trying to give his message different meaning because that is what you are trying to say now that he never meant that and if he didnt, he would have made reference to Peter showing him the sword and his replying him that IT WAS ENOUGH meant that his response was towards Peter's statement 'here are the swords'

And why would Jesus want to defend Himself when He said in the same passage that ALL that was written of Him concerning His death must come to pass? It is incredulous at best that the violent slaves of allah are so eager to pin Jesus and violence. All they need do is provide us one proof where Jesus killed anyone or even attempted to kill anyone. Chikena.

Was he willing to die and if he was, why the shout on the cross and the prayer at Gethsemane?

@Nwando


Let us take this for a start and others will follow



WAS MAN BORN A SINNER?

Salam to my muslim brothers and sisters . May Almighty Allah continue to guide us in Islam as we spread the true message and the truth which is Islam and may HE never put any burden that will be too much for our faith.

While islam preach and propagate the sinlessness of man from birth, and attributing sin to whoever has done it alone, the religion of Christianity condemn all mankind as sinners-a perpetual sinners indeed who must inherit the original sin.
The muslim’s Holy Quran records only the doing of sin to the doer of sin in:
Quran 74v38: every soul will be held in pledge for (all) its deed
Quran 17v15: whosoever choose to follow the right path, follows it but for his own good, and whoever goes astray, did to his own hurt, and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another’s burden. Wherever, we would never punish (any community for the wrong they may do) until we have sent an apostle to give warning.

Quran 4v111: and if one sins, he earns it against his soul for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.

On the other hand, the bible came with the notion of original sin that “Jesus has redeemed the world by sacrificing his life to cancel the sin of mankind” that, that original sin was the sin inherited from Adam and Eve through birth!

The bible says concerning the inherited sinfulness of man as follows:
Romans 3v23: for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

The sinfulness of man is thus made manifested in these verses and some unmentioned one. This doctrine is not accidental. The sinfulness of man, according to the bible, is that man is a perpetual sinner, born into sin, reared and nurtured as a sinner because in
Job 25v4: how can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

It therefore implies that, as long as man continue to be someone born of a woman, he cannot be clean! Even if he does all kind of righteous deeds until his death, he will remain unclean. This will also be applicable even if he accepted Jesus as his saviour! Why? Cos he would remain someone born of a woman and even though he became born again! The reason is not far-fetched, the bible says in:

Isaiah 64v6: we are all as an unclean thing, and our righteousness are as filthy rags, and we all do fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

This inherited sinfulness of man was nurtured from the idea that Adam’s sin was later inherited by all men in:

Romans 5v12: wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men for that all have sinned.

The doctrine of man’s inherited sinfulness can be said, without slightest doubt, a doctrine never preached by the earlier biblical prophet but an idea of some later biblical characters (eg Paul). They at the same time, contradicted themselves on what they have raised somewhere else in the same bible. The two following quotations will easily disprove that, men are sinners or that man inherited sin from his parent.

Ezekiel 18v20: the soul that sin shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son, the righteous shall be upon himself. OR
Romans 14v12: so then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

It therefore implies that the idea “none is righteous no, not one (Roman 3v9-12) is a fabrication, a naked fantastic lies, that is propagated with ignorance and fantasy. The following passages shows that some people are righteous and never born with any inheritable sin.

Mark 6v20: herod feared John knowing that he was a righteous and holy man.

Daniel 6v4: Daniel was faithful, no error or fault was found on him.

Luke 1v16: Zechariah and his wife were both righteous.

1st Samuel 12v3-5: Samuel never oppressed…he is free from all faults.

Mathew 1v19: Joseph was a just man

Luke 2v25: simeon was devout and righteous one etc

If we hold the word “how then can men be righteous before God? How can one who is born of a woman be clean (job 25v4) etc, to be true, then the passage will create more problem, because one Jesus is born from a woman, then Jesus could not be clean either judging from that assertion.

Two, if Jesus is born by a woman, then he would be said to have inherited the original sin from his mother.

Three, if the word “ all have sinned” be taken to its full length, Jesus would be included among the “all” because he is born of a woman.

However, in all manner of consideration, if the original sin is inherited and children are born into sin, Jesus would not have awarded “innocence” and “pure” state to them, neither would he have said in,

Mathew 18v3: and said, verily I say unto you, except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter the kingdon of heaven. OR
Mark 10v15: verily I say unto you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter heaven.

If all of us are born sinner because of Adam’s sin, then it portrayed God as one inflicting the punishment of a criminal to one who is not. This is equal to injustice. But our God is not unjust as in

Deuteronomy 24v16: the father shall not be put to death for the children, neither the children be put to death for the father’s, every man shall be put to death for his own sin. OR
1st Corinthians 3v8: how he that planted and he that watered are one, and every man shall receive his own reward according to his labour.

However, this doctrine of Blood Atonement created by the church, three to four centuries after Jesus left the earth contradicts the bible as in the above passages.

Others will come in soon when you attend to this post.

@Nwando


I have been telling you and will keep telling you that your falsehood will not work here. You brought a link where someone lied that he saw Jesus in a dream and I provided rebuttal to that, nailing it to the cross that it was the work of the jinn to mislead people and Jesus even told you that wide is the road that leads to heaven and many of you would be threading it while narrow is the road to salvation and few would be there as in Islam.

You are here again, posting link about individual opinion. Let me chip in something, muslims are not after lifting false stories from internet or cooking up same. We have the Quran as our guide and we will always refer to that for guidance. I can as well post links about reversion of christians to Islam in which I happened to be one but I will not die that, you have known some notable personalities that left christianity for Islam and if you still need, I can give you that of another friend of mine that left your religion for Islam and would give you all the award he got from the church, the name of his church, his position etc.


Now to bail you out of your confusion on Jesus being your saviour, let me have your evodence on that and I will take the pain in lecturing you that Jesus is different from God and couldnt save himself let alone saving people, he didnt come to die for anybody's sin and was never killed nor resurrected.

If you are ready for these, I am equally up to the task and we will both dig down into the bible and maybe Quran for better clarification.

Thanks

@Kobojunkie

Here is what is lacking in your reasoning there. According to the Christian belief, who is the way to Heaven?? JESUS,

Thank you very much for acknowledging the fact that the saying is according to christian belief. I am now telling you that if you have Jesus till you die, you will never be looked up on that day because he was not sent to you. On that all prophets along with their communities will gather together, Jesus and the jews will be together because he was sent to them. If you can lay your hands on the night journey of Muhammad to heaven, one of the prophets felt bad and envy Muhammad that he would have the largest followership because he was sent to the whole world unlike others including Jesus that were sent to their commuity.

so when asked how to get to heaven, following that post by uspry1 there, it is clear that Jesus states Clearly that all those who become like children will enter heaven. Yes, all those who are born are born in sin but according to that very verse by Jesus, it already states that the criteria is to be humble as kids are, not be SINLESS which is not the Christian belief.

Do you read your bible at all? you even made it known that all that are born in christian world are born as sinners but that the criteria is to humble oneself as kids. Now if I may refrshen your memory, didnt your bible says that , it is only those that believe in Jesus will have everlasting life (John 3 v 16). Now we are seeing contradictions here. The historians in which Paul happened to be one of them said that nobody is clean and we have all inherited the sin of Adam but Jesus made it known to us that we have never inherited any sin that the soul that sin would surely die and father would not be punished for the sin of son and vice versa. Jesus used the little children therein to show that they are sinless because they havent known wrong from right.

Three would not have anything written for them:

1. Little children
2. Insane person
3. Person that is sleeping.


Little children are included because they do not know anything and would surely go to heaven and would only be judged after they have known righr from wrong. Jesus from his saying made it known to us that nobody inherited any sin but this was laid down by lazy paul that brought religion to gentiles; Jesus made it known that children are sinless and would not be accountable for anything.

If we now base our argument on the sayings of Paul and others that didnt see Jesus, we would conclude that all CHRISTIAN BABIES WOULD GO TO HEAVEN because no one born of woman would be clean but Jesus contradicted that saying by making it known to us that no, if you can be like children, which means that they are very sinless, you would enter paradise.

I think instead of always wanting to attack and think you have it all figured out, you may want to spend time asking questions to actually understand the ENGLISH in the verses. NO WHERE does Jesus say you must be SINLESS to enter heaven. He does make it clear that ,

Brother, I am not attacking anybody but we are here learning from each other. I will attend to your quote below:

"And he said, Truly I say to you, Unless you convert, and become as the little children,
in no way can you enter into the Kingdom of God. Therefore, whosoever will humble himself
as this little child, this one is the greater in the Kingdom of Heaven". (Matt.18:3-4, Para.)

Jesus made it known to us that unless you convert as the little children, you would never gain paradise. The next question to ask ourselves is that, 'why do we need to be like little children?' and the answer should be, because they do not know anything called sin let alone inherited sin. Little children would not be judged until they are able to know right from wrong. So little kids would always enter heaven as against christian notion of inherited sin.

Thanks

Are these really Jesus' words?

1.

Matthew 10:23 - When giving instructions to his apostles as to just how they are to go about spreading his message Jesus says,." . . . for truly I say unto you, you shall not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes."


They have since perished but son of man hasnt come


2.
Matthew 16:28 - Jesus says to his disciples, "There are some of those standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

They have all tasted death without the sign of son of man.


3.
Matthew 24:33-34 - " . . . when you shall see all these things, know that it (the 2nd coming) is near, even at the door. This generation shall not pass till these things be fulfilled." He was obviously referring to the contemporary generation.

The generation has passed without the fulfilment of his sayings.


4.
Matthew 26:64 - When brought before Caiaphas, the Chief Priest, Jesus said to him, "I tell you, hereafter you shall see the Son of Man . . . coming on the clouds of heaven."


According to this the second coming was to happen during Caiaphas' lifetime but nothing of such happened.


5.
Mark 9:1 - Jesus said to the people and to his disciples, ”Verily I say unto you, that there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.


They have all perished with no sign of son of man.



6.

Luke 21:27-28 -Jesus said to the congregation, “And then shall they see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.”


Still they have all perished with no sign of him .


7.
Luke 21:32 - Jesus said, again to the congregation, “This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.”


But the generation has passed without any fulfilment.


8.
John 18:20 - When being questioned by the high priest, Jesus answered, "I spake openly to the world; I have ever taught in the synagogues and in the temple, and in secret have I said nothing." Here he told two lies. For example, the Sermon on the Mount, perhaps his most famous sermon was delivered neither in a synagogue nor in the temple but on a mountain top (Matthew 5:1.)
In Matthew 16:20 he warns his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah. In other words, Keep it a secret.


9.
Revelation 22:7, 12, 20 - Jesus says, "Behold, I come quickly."

Almost two thousand years have passed, all those who knew him are long dead, yet Jesus’ promise of a quick return remains unfulfilled.


Deuteronomy 13:1-5 if an aspiring prophet's words do not come to pass, and if he seeks to turn people from the true God and to another, namely himself, and claims to be equal with God, then he is a false prophet and should be put to death. Therefore, in light of the above didnt Jesus deserve the death sentence with regards to unfulfilled prophecies?

Lets see if the sayings are really that of Jesus.

Thanks

@Tayo-D

Are you for real? The fact that I provided you proof that Jesus does not need physical sword to defend himself is deflecting the thread? Do you know the meaning of that word or you just don't know how to reason out a matter?

You have never provided any proof but exposed the fraud in your bible. Now if you are saying that he was not referring to physical sword, why did he tell that it was ok when shown one?

Luke 22 v 38: Then they said: “Lord, look! here are two swords.” He said to them: “It is enough.”


What do you think he meant by 'it is enough'/ Was he not referring to the physical swords shown to him/ Common, you read to understand and not to argue blindly.

Don't deceive yourself. It wasn't other writings that were burnt. It was the Qu'ran that was burnt. The stronger man burnt the copies of those who were weaker and presented his copy as the only valid one. What makes you think that it is his copy that is authentic? Of course there is no competition becuase in the spirit of islam, the stronger one has killed off the weaker one, and claiming himself to be right. Assuming the makers of the KJV Bible destroys other translations of the Bible, does that make the KJV right? Absolutely not. Same with the Koran.

Brother you may keep confusing yourself for all I care. For peace to reign, let us say the Quran was burnt and that is how it should have been so that muslims wouldnt be facing what you are facing now. If you have burnt all those false versions and stick to some that are being guarded religiously, all these brouhaha wouldnt have been happening. The Quran is always right and will always be but the bible can not be said to be because some versions are omitting some verses, some early publications omitting some verses while they are present in later publications, contradictions here and there in the so called inspired word of God and they are all claiming to be from God through inspiration.

Again, your iability to reason clearly has betrayed your judgment. Let me bring your attention to the narration int the book of John where jesus identified Himself. John 18:4 5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. You should ask yourself the question, how did Judas betray Jesus? The answer is with a Kiss.

I dont like liar and you have shown it that you are a hypocrite. I dont like a situation whereby people will see the truth and avoid same. You are trying to tell me that the word' betrayed' used therein referred to the kiss Judas gave to Jesus. Well, let me lecture you a little. Go to to the story of the passover where all were siting at the table and Jesus identified Judas as the betrayal before Judas could even arrange with the Romans.

From the beginning he knew that he would be betrayed, hence

On the fourth day after His triumphant entrance into Jerusalem, Jesus Christ said to His disciples, "You know that after two days the Passover is coming, and the Son of man will be delivered up to be crucified."

He had known from the beginning that someone would betrayed him hence:


John 6:64-65

"'64Yet there are some of you who do not believe.' For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him.
65He went on to say, 'This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.' , Then Jesus replied, 'Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!'

From the above, we could see that Jesus had already identified judas as the traitor before his arrest because we learnt that satan entered him.

The betrayal happened in such a way that Judas conspired with the Romans to hand over Jesus to them.


[1] Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread, called the Passover, was approaching,
[2] and the chief priests and the teachers of the law were looking for some way to get rid of Jesus, for they were afraid of the people.
[3] Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve.
[4] And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus.
[5] They were delighted and agreed to give him money.
[6] He consented, and watched for an opportunity to hand Jesus over to them when no crowd was present.


Now we learnt in the above verses that satan entered Judas and discussed how to hand over Jesus to them and waited for opportunity to do that because people are always present.


And after satan had entered him:

Luke 22v 4-5
"And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus. They were delighted and agreed to give him money."


Now, there is no any need for Romans not to have known Jesus because he preached openly and people know him very well. The Romans must both maintain the fragile peace in the city of Jerusalem and at the same time get rid of Jesus. They are concerned about how to get Jesus alone and just then the answer to their problem walks in the door, Judas an insider provided the information on how and where to get him.

Brother, the betrayal meant there is not the kiss but Judas leading them to where Jesus was, free from crowd that would not be able to resist the arrest. They used Judas because he knew Jesus' movement and knew that the best time to arrest him would be when he was alone, free from listeners. So your assumption wont work here because even, the verses made it known to us that Judas stood watching after having taken them there but didnt kiss jesus in opposition to another verse but Jesus had to do the identification himself.

Now even though John did not mention the actual kiss, he clearly indicated that at the point that Jesus identified Himself, Judas had already betrayed Him and was now standing back with the troops. For those who are not blinded by allah, it is clear that the betrayal with a kiss was a separate event that already took place at the time Jesus identified Himslef. This is how all scriptures work together in tandem to create a clear understanding.

Now, you further exposed your falsehood. There is nowhere in the verses given to you that said that Judas betrayed him with a kiss and stood back, the verses said that Judas stood watching and Jesus asked them who they were looking for and they had to tell him Jesus and he told them he was the one. Now, if you cant think straight without being blinded by your bible, there is no way Judas would have kissed him and people would still be asking if he was the one. The betrayal therein happened when Judas took them to where Jesus was for easy arrest devoid of crowd that would put up any form of resistance.

So no twisting the verses please. You are dealing with someone that was like you.

I may likely be around when you come back from your meeting.