₦airaland Forum

@pilgrim.1

I hear you. The "total collapse" of Christianity - and yet it is growing despite Muhammad's hatred and curse on Jews and Christians! Please park yourself for one corner and let's hear word!

Are you happy that it is growing? Common, dont tell me that you dont read your bible at all because if you have been doing that, Jesus told you that wide is the road that leads to destruction and many will be following it while narrow is the road that leads to eternal life and few will be

Salam all

Na the intention matter and there's nothin' wrong with it as long as u get the accurate figures 2 be counted

Intention precedes action and action will be judged according to intentions.

Insha Allah, I will post write up on the misconceptions on Islam touching nearly every important area in Islam very soon so that non-muslims reading this thread will have knowledge about Islam and see that it is quite different from how westerners have portrayed and are still portraying Islam to the world.

Maa Salam

@pilgrim.1

If you are intellectually challenged and you no longer understand the meaning of the simple word you are asking, then please let us know!

Did your Qur'an ever use the word "correct" or "confirm" in the verses quoted so far? WHERE did Allah tell you that he gave the Qur'an in order to "correct" the Biblical scriptures?

Since you ignored the questions asked, let me re-present them again mayube you didnt see them:




1. Please, Quran has been Revealed 1400 years ago and can you say the revelation God mentioned therein are still the same as the versions you are holding now?

Quran 2 v 42; and mix not truth with falsehood, nor conceal; the truth (Muhammad and His qualities are written in your scriptures, the Torah and Gospel while you know the truth.

The above verse made it known to us that the Revelation given to them is not the same as the one we are having now because we have chapters making reference to Muhammad in which some have been made plain to you but you ignored same due to pride and arrogance.



2. Can you beat your chest to it that the revelation you are having now is the same that revealed to the prophets? Let me have your response and I will give you facts that the NT was compiled by pagans!!

Quran 2 v 89: and when there came to them (the jews) a Book (this Quran) from Allah confirming what is with them, the Torah and Gospel, although aforetime they had invoked Allah (for coming of Muhammad) in order to gain victory over those who disbelieved, then where there came to them that which they had recognised, they disbelieved in it. So let the curse of Allah be on disbelievers.


3. Now the above verse says what is with them, are you saying the revelation you are holding now is the same as the one God mentioned in the above verse/ You wouldnt be able to say that because you yourself know that many versions flooded market each claiming to have been from original manuscript but have been having differences here and there.



The Quran indeed came to confirm what was sent earlier and that is the more you tends to read similar accounts from both books. The Quran to confirm that God gave early prophets revelation and you can as well find that in the Quran.

Now if we say that Quran came to comfirm the early revelation, this is what it means:


Quran 2 v 99: and indeed we have sent down to you manifest Ayat (these verses of the Quran which inform in detail about the news of the Jews and their secret intentions etc and none disbelieve in them but those who rebel against Allah's command.


Quran 2 v 101: and when there came to them a Messenger from ALLAH (Muhammad) confirming what was with them, a party of those who were given the scripture threw away the Book of Allah behind their back as if they did not know.

Quran 2 v 146; those to whom we gave the scripture (jews and christians) recosgnise him (Muhammad or the Kabah at Makah) as they recognise their sons. But verily, a party of them conceal the truth while they know it (qualities of Muhammad written in Torah and Gospel)


Hope you understand, no game this time.

You may read Jeremiah 8 v 8 and Deuterenomy 31 v 25 - 29 for the corruption of the revelation.


Narrated Ubaidullah: "Ibn 'Abbas said, 'Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461)"


These are the verses on the corruption of othe revelation:


Quran 5:13 from the Noble Quran: "But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them (Jews and Christians) and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others)."


Quran 5:41 "O Apostle! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, 'If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!' If any one's trial is intended by God, thou hast no authority in the least for him against God. For such - it is not God's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment."

Pretend as if you didnt see the post again.

@pilgrim.1

It is sad that your advice here is hypocritical, to say the least! Muslims [b]are the ones who are very quick to insuly the parents of fellow discussants - babs787 has done i[/b]t, and any attempt to deny that will only invite something unprecidented that may dampen your days, olabowale.

Please in all honesty, let me have where I started it. I wont deny the fact that I insulted your parent and I owe you no apology for saying that because you caused it. You cant just be insulting people here just because we are on net.

Let me have any thread where I first abused or insulted you.

@pilgrim.1

Please don't amuse us with Muhammad's denials.

You called that denials when you couldnt provide any prophecy from OT on his crucifixion and resurrecting after the third day!!

What have you done with the OT prophecies of His Crucifixon that were offered already?

Why not quit your game of dishonesty, it has never worked with me. You called that a prophecy for him? Common stop deceiving yourself, it wasnt for him.

Have you dealt with the simple request of dealing with those ones FIRST before going on to your problem with the [b]third day?[/[/b]quote]

You will never be able to produce that of third day because there was no OT prophecy on such. Dare me if you can.

@Pilgrim.1

I really ahve no issues with the Psalms or any other book of the Bible. I might have had issues with them BEFORE I left Islam; but it is issues like this that strengthened my disgust for Islam and opened my eyes to the duplicity inherent in Islam.

For example, you war is not against me personally; nor have your efforts helped the cause of Islam in all your arguments. For one thing, you acknowledge that what you are seeking to attack is the "inspired word of God" - and that says it all for me, whether or not you're vexed as to find 'mistakes, contradictions, etc' in them. What I do know is that anybody CAN find the so called "contradictions" when they deliberately read them out of context.

An example in this case is found in Proverbs:


Proverbs 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

Proverbs 26:5
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

If one is unable to study the context of these verses and their applications, he immediately shouts that it is contradictory! I have often used this as a simple example, but many times it turns out that those who have such a mindset would often deny its implications NO MATTER how sensible the answers may be.

Second, the Muslim hypocrisy of seeking to attack the Psalms (or any other Biblical scriptures) does not help anyone applaud Islam. I think you guys should begin to seriously consider your wasted effort in this strain, because one the one hand the Qur'an says that Allah gave the Psalms to David; then again Muslims come to attack the same Psalms that they claim Allah gave!! The easiest thing for Muslims therefore to do as a way of covering up their deceit is to LIE that the "original" Psalms (or Torah, Injil, etc) are LOST!

Even you babs787 said that the Qur'an stated that the Torah was LOST, and I asked you to simply quote the verse where the Qur'an "STATED" such a thing! Ever since I asked that simple thing, you have NEVER quoted that verse at any time! WHY? Because you obviously knew in your heart that you were LYING! And if you could afford to LIE so shamelessly in a public Forum, why would pilgrim.1 then abandon salvation in Christ and then embrace your LIES?


The two issues that Muslims should deal with are: (a) their hypocritic lies; and (b) their mindset to deliberately attack Christians and Jews.

I have no problems at all with Muhammad's career as a totally different religion that has no reference at all to the revelations of God and the Bible. But when Muslims claim that the same God sent Muhammad, and then turn round to attack that same God and His revelations, such a hypocritic adventure is enough for me to continue to stay out of Islam! You cannot be praising 'Allah' and then rubbishing his claims only when it helps your hypocrisy. Such an attitude is not worth the sands on the road of Medina!

Will you provide explanation to those verses and stop beating about the bush which you are well known for?

@kobokunkie


For your question, I will wait so I can confirm that I have the First Edition RSV BIble online so that we can both look and see what your claim is and how it deals with reality.

I will be looking forward to reading from you. But in the absence of that, kindly go through quotes from the link supplied and when you are through, prepare for missing verses in other versionbs but present in KJV.

The King James Version of the New Testament was based upon a Greek text that was marred by mistakes, containing the accumulated errors of fourteen centuries of manuscript copying. It was essentially the Greek text of the New Testament as edited by Beza, 1589, who closely followed that published by Erasmus, 1516-1535, which was based upon a few medieval manuscripts. The earliest and best of the eight manuscripts which Erasmus consulted was from the tenth century, and he made the least use of it because it differed most from the commonly received text; Beza had access to two manuscripts of great value, dating from the fifth and sixth centuries, but he made very little use of them because they differed from the text published by Erasmus.

Two passages, the longer ending of Mark (16.9-20) and the account of the woman caught in adultery (Jn 7.53-8.11), are restored to the text, separated from it by a blank space and accompanied by informative notes describing the various arrangements of the text in the ancient authorities. With new manuscript support, two passages, Lk 22.19b-20 and 24.51b, are restored to[b] the text, and one passage, Lk 22.43-44, is placed in the note, as is a phrase in Lk 12.39. Notes are added which indicate significant variations, additions, or omissions in the ancient authorities (Mt 9.34; Mk 3.16; 7.4; Lk 24.32,51, etc.).[/b] Among the new notes are those giving the equivalence of ancient coinage with the contemporary day's or year's wages of a laborer (Mt 18.24,28; 20.2; etc.). Some of the revisions clarify the meaning through rephrasing or reordering the text (see Mk 5.42; Lk 22.29-30; Jn 10.33; 1 Cor 3.9; 2 Cor 5.19; Heb 13.13). Even when the changes appear to be largely matters of English style, they have the purpose of presenting to the reader more adequately the meaning of the text (see Mt 10.8; 12.1; 15.29; 17.20; Lk 7.36; 11.17; 12.40; Jn 16.9; Rom 10.16; 1 Cor 12.24; 2 Cor 2.3; 3.5,6; etc.).

@ajadrage

A whole 82%, could you please tell where you have your facts from, and what various translations of the bible you have this grouse with

We will know if really 82% are really his when you provide solution to those quesyions raised.

@Nwando


While I wait for your brother's response, let me quickly attend to your post.

Will that shed light into why "prophet" Mo married and defiled a 6 year old girl?

Your folks are not seeing you as you tried deflecting topic. I thought the issue has been laid to rest but yopu are still free to resurrect it again but let me tease you a little:

Do you have any proof be it anywhere that He defiled a 6 year old girl. I need your proof please. No game this time

Amin

Salam Bro babs

Salam big brother  

How r you?

Alhamdulillah, I thank Allah for keeping me till this very moment. Hope you are doing great as well?

Long time oo,

Yes o. Its not easy to be a man o . But Allah has been sufficient for me. Hope u r cool, calm and calculated ?

Thanks for bringing it back.

May Allah continue to bless you in knowledge.

Amin.

Amin and to you too my dear brother. Appreciation goes to Mukina for calling my attention to it and not allowing the thread to die. Kudos to her . Allah will aid those who aid His cause?

Jazakhullah Khairan.








@Mukina,

we go celebrate o. Arsenal will be on top till 2008, thereby making another record. Those yeye man. United fan no gree me breathing space cos they were on top for just three days!!


Dont mind me jare, back to the topic.

Insert Quote
Salaam Babs, Muctarr and Cush


@ Babs

I know but the fingers are more accurate . .

Not more accurate but more acceptable.

- those beads are very tiny . .you can make mistakes easily if you go too fast

as long as you concentrate on your fingers you can never make mistakes

Beads come in different shapes and sizes depending on your choice.
I dont think so in the sense that most of the tasbir are having 99 beads so you will know that you have counted 99 if you are to count everything therein and just add a count to it to make it 100, then you keep a stone or something separate and you do that after the count of 100 and before you know it, you would have counted 1000 using tasbir but let us look at the scenario where you have to use your fingers, please how do you go about counting using your fingers. For convenience, there are tasbirs having more than 99 beads though I do not use that but I still think tasbir can be used as well if it is not going to be for show off.

Ordinary we all know that the fingers will be part of our witness on that (our fingers will speak and witness what we used them in doing) but we should still remember that we have reward for every ayah, word or supplication made. For example, if you recite Laila Ilalah say 99 using your fingers, you will earn reward for saying that and your fingers will also bear you witness on that day.

So I think tasbir can be used as well.

Maa Salam

@kobojunkie

Again @Babs if you can not answer me the question then stop posting replies to a question that is not directed at you. I am sure it is straight forward. Show me the verses that have changed. And the claim came from Olabowale. Writting me a line from a song is not the answer to my question. If you can not provide me information that I need then please go distract someone else. I prefer to stay focused on this cause I see a claim made and would like to understand what this claim has to do with reality. Is that understood?? Notice for the past how many posts, I have had to repeat self over and over. The same question, so many posts later and not one answer provide but so many distracting questions asked that have absolutely nothing to do with the original question.

Firstly, can you please check mark 16 v 19, luke 24 v 15 and john 8 v 1-10 from RSV of 1952 and tell if those verses exist?


Secondly, let us look at luke 22 v 70

KJV : Then they said 'are you the son of God/ He said unto them,. 'you said that I am'

NIV: They all asked, 'are you the son of God, e said, 'YOU ARE RIGHT IN SAYING I AM.

LBV: They all shouted, 'then you claim you are the son of God? and he said 'yes I am'

Thirdly, Can you help me check Mark 16 v 9 - 20 from RSV of 1952 edition? You will never find it there but inseretd in recent editions.

There are two different and contradictory copies of Today's English Version . One contains some addtional books which makes it 81 while the other copy does not contain these additional books, can you tell me the reason behind these?

Let me stop here and wait for your response

Thanks

@Jesoul

Nwando or anyone else says.
khaikhai & babs - you can post a million references here about how scripture contradicts itself - all a bunch of nonsense because they've been twisted and taken out of context. [b]Becos you can twist and misinterpret the bible and make it say whatever you want it to say if your mind is depraved and lost enough.

Hee Hee .I thought you claimed that the bible is inspired and if so, how come the writers are contradicting each other. The holy spirit is supposed to guide them into not making mistakes.

You should be able to explain the contradictions if you are sincere to yourself and not hiding behind sayings of those that never knew Jesus let alone being inspired to write those stuff.

@cushman

@babs, you are right ofcouse. But then, one can become perfect using fingers

Salam brother

Yes one can become perfect using fingers but at the same time one is bound to make mistakes using fingers than the use of hands especially when making duah of like 1,000 Astaghfirlah. It is not written anywhere that one cannot use tasbir but it is not good if it is for show off.

May Allah increases our knowledge.

@kobojunkie


QUESTION : WHAT VERSES IN THE BIBLE, ANY BIBLE HAS CHANGED SINCE 1970 When you claim you read it.

Firstly, can you tell me the difference between Almah and Bethulah and I will serve you the verses that have changed. Also do you still need missing verses in early publications but present in present editions?

Are you going to answer the question or keep playing this dodging game in the name of islam The Question still stands based on claims YOU ( not anyone else) but You made, [/quote

Lo ba tan o.Pepeiye fe pomo.

@mp007

babs, the post as got nothing to do with you and your buddies arguing over religion ok, aint got time for that, don't bring that in here ok!, thanks for your comment babs, the post is for christians only, thank you

Ok sir . Hope you know that your bible said that my people perished for lack of knowledge. Why not do a search and find out that early christians did not use cross as symbols.

back to the main topic, we christians know the significance of the cross, need y'all believers of christ to respond to this thread, christians only because non-christians just wouldnt understand ,

How do you expect me to understand when the cross was brought into the religion by pagans. Ok I leave you alone but do not say I didnt tell you

@Ndipe

Yes, Jesus Christ is God, be it Old Testament, or New Testament.

Thanks for your post. I have lots to post but will reduce it so as to give you time to read and respond.

Did God need to become man being in order to show us how to live?\


God does not need to become a human being in order to show us how to live. This is why he sends down messengers because that is their job.

Let us look at some verses showng that God is not a man (JESUS) and cannot be

1- "God IS not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?" Numbers 23:19


2- "And also the Glory of Israel will not lie or have regret, for he IS not a man, that he should have regret." 1 Samuel 15:29


3- "I will not execute my burning anger; I will not again destroy Ephraim; for I am God and not a man, the Holy One in your midst, and I will not come in wrath." Hosea 11:9


Does God changes?


"For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed." (Malachi 3:6)"


Now let us go into NT to see if Jesus is really God

1. Mark 10 v 18: "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone."

Why did Jesus say he was not good except the God alone?


2.
Luke 5:16 "And he (Jesus) withdrew himself into the wilderness and prayed to his God."

Did you see that/ Did he pray to himself?


3.
Matthew 26:39 "And going a little way forward, he (Jesus) fell upon his face, praying and saying 'My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.' "

Was he praying to himself?


4.
Matthew 26:42 "Again, for the second time, he (Jesus) went off and prayed, saying: 'My Father, if it is not possible for this to pass away except I drink it, let your will take place.'"

Jesus begged his GOD to will what Jesus wanted to happen. Jesus couldn't will it by himself. Do you say he prayed to and begged himself?


5.
Matthew 26:44 "So leaving them, he (Jesus) went off and prayed for the third time, saying once more the same word."

Here we see that Jesus for the third time begged his GOD to will what Jesus wished for in Matthew 26:39 above.

How can Jesus be the Creator of this Universe if he
(1) begs, and
(2) lacks power?


6.
Hebrew 5:7 "During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission."

Here we see Jesus prayed to God to be saved and God HEARD ( in any religious speech the HEARD means that the person has been answer with the prayer) him. Do we say he prayed with loud cries to himself?


7
Mathew 3:16 "After being baptized Jesus immediately came up from the water; and, look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw descending like a dove God's spirit coming upon him. Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved."


Here we see how much GOD loved Jesus and how much he admired him. Jehovah or Allah in Mathew 3:16 was clearly greeting his messenger (Jesus), and telling him how much he loves him. The above shows that God is not Jesus.


8.
" My Father, who gave them me is Greater than ALL, ," in John 10:

Did you see that?


9.
John 14:28 "The Father is greater than I."


10.
John 5:30 "I can of mine own self do NOTHING, I[b] seek not my own will but the will of Him who sent me[/b]."

Jesus was sent in this verse by his own admission. In this verse he himself says that the one who is sent: ", the one who is sent is not greater than the one who sent (John 13:16)."


I still have more but had to stop in order for you to provide expanation.

Thanks.

@mp007


Why not stop wasting your time with the so called pictures and crosses. Early christians do not use cross but fish as their symbol. The cross was a later invention of pagans into the religion called christianity.The pictures go a long way to show that all the pictures being portrayed are not his, nobody witnessed his 'alleged' crucifixion . He was never crucified let alone resurrecting after the third. I have been asking your friends to provide me OT prophecy on his crucifixion and resurrection after the third day[b][/b] but have not seen any prophecy.

@kobojunkie


You ddnt say anything to my earlier post. In case you did not see it, this is it again:

Hold your breath. What if I supply you early publications that were having some verses missing but inserted in recent versions yet they are claiming to have copied same from original manuscript?

Are you prepared for that?

@pilgrim.1


You may keep making denials upon denials for all I care but the truth has been established. Since you failed in reading to understand, I decide to go into your favourite Hilali Khan to bring out the verses for you. I pray that you read this time for understanding.


Quran 2 v 14: and who believe in (the quran and the sunnah) which has been sent down (revealed) to you (Muhammad) and in that which were sent down before you (Torah and Gospel) etc and they believe with certainty in the hereafter resurrection, recompense of their good and bad deeds) Paradise & Hell.


Allah in the above verse made it known to us that the scripture (Torah and Gospel) were sent down before Muhammad. Please, Quran has been Revealed 1400 years ago and can you say the revelation God mentioned therein are still the same as the versions you are holding now?


Quran 2 v 42; and mix not truth with falsehood, nor conceal; the truth (Muhammad and His qualities are written in your scriptures, the Torah and Gospel while you know the truth.

The above verse made it known to us that the Revelation given to them is not the same as the one we are having now because we have chapters making reference to Muhammad in which some have been made plain to you but you ignored same due to pride and arrogance.


Quran 2 v 76; and when they (jews) meet those who believe (muslis), they say, 'we believe' but when they meet one another in private, they say 'shall you (jews) tell them (muslims) what Allah has revealed to you (jews about the description and the qualities of Prophet Muhammad) that which are written i the Torah that they (muslims) may argue with you (jews) about it before your Lord? Have you (jews) then no understanding?


Can you beat your chest to it that the revelation you are having now is the same that revealed to the prophets? Let me have your response and I will give you facts that the NT was compiled by pagans!!


Quran 2 v 89: and when there came to them (the jews) a Book (this Quran) from Allah confirming what is with them, the Torah and Gospel, although aforetime they had invoked Allah (for coming of Muhammad) in order to gain victory over those who disbelieved, then where there came to them that which they had recognised, they disbelieved in it. So let the curse of Allah be on disbelievers.


Now the above verse says what is with them, are you saying the revelation you are holding now is the same as the one God mentioned in the above verse/ You wouldnt be able to say that because you yourself know that many versions flooded market each claiming to have been from original manuscript but have been having differences here and there.


Quran 2 v 91; and when it is said to them (the jews) 'believe in what Allah has sent down' they say 'we believe in what was sent down to us' and they dsbelieve in that which came after it while it is the truth confirming what is with them. SAY (O Muhammad to themn), 'why then have you killed the prophets of Allah aforetime, if you indeed have been believers.


The Quran indeed came to confirm what was sent earlier and that is the more you tends to read similar accounts from both books. The Quran to confirm that God gave early prophets revelation and you can as well find that in the Quran.


Now if we say that Quran came to comfirm the early revelation, this is what it means:


Quran 2 v 99: and indeed we have sent down to you manifest Ayat (these verses of the Quran which inform in detail about the news of the Jews and their secret intentions etc and none disbelieve in them but those who rebel against Allah's command.


Quran 2 v 101: and when there came to them a Messenger from ALLAH (Muhammad) confirming what was with them, a party of those who were given the scripture threw away the Book of Allah behind their back as if they did not know.

Quran 2 v 146; those to whom we gave the scripture (jews and christians) recosgnise him (Muhammad or the Kabah at Makah) as they recognise their sons. But verily, a party of them conceal the truth while they know it (qualities of Muhammad written in Torah and Gospel)


Hope you understand, no game this time.

You may read Jeremiah 8 v 8 and Deuterenomy 31 v 25 - 29 for the corruption of the revelation.


Narrated Ubaidullah: "Ibn 'Abbas said, 'Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461)"


These are the verses on the corruption of othe revelation:


Quran 5:13 from the Noble Quran: "But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them (Jews and Christians) and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others)."


Quran 5:41 "O Apostle! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, 'If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!' If any one's trial is intended by God, thou hast no authority in the least for him against God. For such - it is not God's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment."

Let me wait for your denial again.

@ajadrage



I raised the thread and posed those questions in order to let people, particularly bible thumpers know that 82% of sayings attributed to Jesus are not his.

Too bad if you had misunderstood me

@Nwando

I see you are indeed very desperate.
Like belial your father,your end is near.

Well, it is because I dont want you to perish because if you die without Islam, Hell straight.

I am still asking you, do you have any proof whatsoever that it is only christians that will gain paradise?




@Jesoul


Dont you have anything to say to the contradictions from the inspired book of God?

1.

2nd chronicles 9 v 25 : and solomon had 4,000 stalls for hhorses and chariots and 12,000 horsemen whom, he bestowed in the chariot cities and with the king at jerusalem

1st king 4 v 26 ; and solomon had 40,000 stalls of horses for his chariots and 12,000 horsemen

note that the jews did not use the '0' in the old testament

2

a. 1st kings 7 v 26: and it was am hand breadth thck, and the brim thereof was wrought like the brim of a cup, with flowers of lillies; it contained 2,000 baths

b
2nd chronicles 4 v 5: and the thickness of it was an handbreadth and the brim of it like the work of the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies and it received and held 3,000 baths.

@kobojunkie

I 100% doubt your claim as in I believe you are lying there @babs. Prove me wrong one of these days

Do I need to still prove you wrong when you have been served glaring contradicting verses from your bible. What you need to do is to deny those verses I served you from your bible and when you are able to do that, I will assisty you by coming in to bail you out.

@pilgrim,

Let us solve this contradictions from the inspired word of God




Great deliverance giveth he to his king; and sheweth mercy to his anointed, to David, and to his seed for evermore. (Psalms 18:50)


God will show mercy to “David’s seed forever”. Yet the following passage from Jeremiah contradicts Psalms 18:50


Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not? O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD.Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah. (Jeremiah 22:28-30)

Coniah/Jehoiachin was from the “seed of David”, yet God cursed him because he disobeyed Him, and the seed of Coniah/Jehoiachin is cursed forever. This verse contradicts Psalms 18:50 where it states God will show mercy to David’s descendents forever.



Amazingly, the Gospel of Matthew adopts Jesus into the cursed lineage of Coniah! (Matthew 1:11-12)



The words “sheweth mercy to his anointed” (Psalms 18:50) refers to Jesus because he was the Anointed (Messiah), so how can God reject Jesus’ prayer at Gethsemane? How can God contradict this verse by withholding His mercy?


2 The Bible denies the Love of God:


The LORD loves righteousness and justice;
the earth is full of his unfailing love. (Psalms 33:5, NIV)


The Bible teaches the exact opposite of this verse, God is a vengeful murderer who kills thousands of innocent people:


And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten [many] of the people with a great slaughter. (1 Samuels 6:19)


And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. Slay utterly old [and] young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom [is] the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which [were] before the house. (Ezekiel 9:5-6)


And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that [was] in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. (Exodus 12:29)


"And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation. And all Israel that were round about them fled at the cry of them: for they said, Lest the earth swallow us up also. And there came out a fire from the LORD, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense." (Numbers 16:32-35)



"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize humankind." (Thomas Paine)


“The Bible is the most dangerous book in the world” (George Bernard Shaw)


3 Does the Earth shake or not?!


The earth shook, the heavens also dropped at the presence of God: [even] Sinai itself [was moved] at the presence of God, the God of Israel. (Psalms 68:

Contradicted by:

The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty
and is armed with strength. The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (Psalms 93:1)

Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns.” The world is firmly established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity. (Psalms 96:10)



4 The Anger of God

But you, O Lord, are a compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness. (Psalms 86:15)

Contradicted by:

How long, O LORD ? Will you be angry forever? How long will your jealousy burn like fire? (Psalms 79:5)

Will you be angry with us forever? Will you prolong your anger through all generations? (Psalms 85:5)

Does God remain angry forever, or is He just “slow to anger?”



5. How long will humans live?

And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. (Genesis 6:3)

Contradicted by:

The length of our days is seventy years— or eighty, if we have the strength; yet their span is but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away. (Psalms 90:10)

Question: which verse do you think is more realistic? They both contradict each other!



6 Does God reject his people?

For the LORD will not reject his people; he will never forsake his inheritance. (Psalms 94:14)

Contradicted by:

And the LORD rejected all the seed of Israel, and afflicted them, and delivered them into the hand of spoilers, until he had cast them out of his sight. (2 Kings 17:20)


Let me stop. More are still coming from your inspired book atrributed to David.

@pilgrim.1

Your attention is needed here

@pilgrim.1


Your attention is still needed

@mukina


Thanks for calling my attention to your post but let me quickly attend to your post before jetting out to religious threads to see what pilgrim.1 is up to

Babs salaam



Barka Jumaah

you can count 14 times per each hand
if you use both hands its like 28 .

as long as you concentrate you can do it accurately

but with beads you can make mistakes easily

Salam sister.

I am not against the use of hands which I even said that I prefer but you have to consider the fact that you are bound to make mistake easily by using hands particularly if you are making any supplication up to 1,000 or more. You will easily make mistake when using hands because you may not be able to count accurately, besides, it may slow down your supplication.

Abi what do you think?

@Jesoul

2Tim3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Ok, let me serve you part of the inspired words of God


1.

2nd chronicles 9 v 25 : and solomon had 4,000 stalls for hhorses and chariots and 12,000 horsemen whom, he bestowed in the chariot cities and with the king at jerusalem

1st king 4 v 26 ; and solomon had 40,000 stalls of horses for his chariots and 12,000 horsemen

note that the jews did not use the '0' in the old testament

2

a. 1st kings 7 v 26: and it was am hand breadth thck, and the brim thereof was wrought like the brim of a cup, with flowers of lillies; it contained 2,000 baths

b
2nd chronicles 4 v 5: and the thickness of it was an handbreadth and the brim of it like the work of the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies and it received and held[b] 3,000 baths.[/b]

So how come these in the inspired book of God. When you provide answers, I will still ask you the moral behind the sex stories, incest, rape etc frm your bible!!!

You are trying and failing to understand things pertaining to the christian faith. Look for us to have any form of conversation we need a common ground and you do not believe in Christianity, Jesus or His words or message - why do you bother asking meaningless questions?

I believe in Jesus but not as a so, saviour, God re-incarnate etc and if you do not agree, grab the Quran and read about him there.

and yes according to the bible, ANYONE who is not a true christian is an unbeliever. Whether you agree or not. And also according to the bible those people will perish in hell if they do not repent and accept Jesus. and I don't need to prove it to you, the bible says it in zillions of places. Start with Jn3:16

Okay maa

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Who said the above statement and please can I have direct word from Jesus saying that one will perish for not accepting him as saviour and lord?

Also can I have from your bible where other writers apart from John used the word 'only begotten son' for Jesus?

ps. I saw the other thread where pilgrim1 challenged/asked you a simple question you still have not provided an answer to, and you're still coming here and asking for more? hmm na wa oh.

Can you direct me to that thread? Why not be honest to yourself and stop your pretext, I have her detailed explanation but she came making roundabout denials. She was hiding behind what she never understood and yo may assist if you feel like.

@pilgrim.1

It will help to refrain from these childish allegations and hiding behind your finger. If you want to discuss, show your mettle and let's look into historical antecedents - and not all this backyard pointing of fingers that appear every now and then in your storylines.

I am willing to join you in looking into historical antecedents.

@pilgrim.1

Quote from: pilgrim.1 on Yesterday at 09:25:44 PM
My question was simple and direct: did you not claim that the same God sent Muhammad? Why now the hypocrisy of denying that position - so you can conveniently attack the Bible when Muhammad is bleaxched out of its pages, yes?

Okay, I can see that you are confused but I will help you out before exposing your lies further. God sent Muhammad but please are you saying God of the OT is the same as NT? Is Jesus still God of the OT?

@pilgrim . 1

@babs787,

I hold ace in this thread, no vex.

You cannot come on board and start your wayo to deviate from my simple request and start asking questions so that later you wil start your convenience game of "oya answer my questions". This is one place you will find that your juju has failed.

The one thing I asked was:

Give me the verse from the qur'an where Allah said he gave the Qur'an to CORRECT the Biblical scriptures.

Have you done that?

So far all I see are excuses upon excuses upon excuses. Please save them for toddlers.

Can you please let me have the verse for the place where you saw Allah speaking of "correcting" the biblical scriptures?

Too bad if you cannot read posts. The verses you hid under have been explained so you have no hiding place.

In case you missed:

Since you failed in understanding simple statement, let us use another approach to understanding the above verse.

Questions for you please

1. Who was with revelation Allah made reference to in the above statement?
2. Are you saying the revelation used therein is the same as the one you are having now?

Note; The Quran was revealed 1400 years ago and you have noticed diferent versions flooding the market, some with missing verses, some verses not in the original manuscript(just the one I served you by Somze) and later insertion in later versions.


Come back and deny the corruption of your bible and the Quran confirming early revelations.