₦airaland Forum

@uspry1


The botton line is that babies will go to heaven whether they are christian, muslim or anything.

If we tend to go by the verses above, babies in christianity will be doomed for hell because they were born by women and anybody born by women cannot said to be clean.

@Tayo-D


You don take style come here abi ;Dafter being unable to respond to why Jesus ordered them to buy sword and couldnt rebuke them for showing him same and had to tell them that it was enough

I just saw your profile and you are a very beatiful woman. Sometimes I wonder what we men are looking for. I very much doubt that your Ex (if you permit me to use that term), would find himself someone as beautiful as you. The story is almost always the same in cases like this.

In any case, I think this is the time for you to start asking yourself some very serious questions. I think you should forget the guy totally for now and concentrate on yourself for the time being. I am not unaware of the pains you feel by the divorce but you can allow God to turn those pains to gains for you. Afterall, we are told in the Bible that "all things work together for good for those who love God." The most encouraging testimony to this scripture is of course knowing how God turned around the tragedy of the Cross into an opportunity for new life to those who believe in Him.

Talk to your Maker, He cares. You probably never grew up in an environment where God is presented to you as a loving Father who is touched by every grief you feel. He wants to hold you now, he wants to cuddle you and comfort you. Reach out to Him in every way you can. Know that He's heard the voice of your weeping and NOW is the time for you to take a bold step of faith towards Him. He said those that come to Him He will in no wise cast out.

For whatever reason, a book keeps coming to my mind while writing. The book is titled: "I Dared to call Him Father" by Bilquis Shekh. This is someone who also experienced a lot of pain and endured harrowing severance from those she loved. She was able to reach out in faith and called on her maker. of course that made all the difference. The principle in the scriptures is that God provides comfort through those whom He has comforted through similar circumstances. I believe you will find a lot of comfort in those pages.

I wish you the very best and will definitley keep you in my prayers.

So what are you driving at so that I will know how to come in?

@uspry1


I have been to that link but nothing there caught my attention except part of his writing quoted and highlighted below that has relationship with the topic of this very thread.

Common sense dictates that the unborn, the infant, and young children have not had the time or the life experience necessary to understand the requirements of salvation. They are certainly not able to understand the awesome implications or responsibilities of making a covenant with God. Therefore, the spiritual condition of the unborn, the infant, and young children is the same as any unconverted person who has never had the opportunity for salvation.

Ok, if that is the case, how come the verses below:


Romans 3v23: for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.


Job 25v4: how can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?


Isaiah 64v6: we are all as an unclean thing, and our righteousness are as filthy rags, and we all do fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

This inherited sinfulness of man was nurtured from the idea that Adam’s sin was later inherited by all men in:

Romans 5v12: wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men for that all have sinned.

God will only grant immortality and eternal life after a person goes through the process of conversion. The unborn, the infant, and young children who die before the return of Christ will be resurrected in the resurrection of "The Rest of the Dead".

Heaven or Hell?

Those who remain alive at his coming will live into the first thousand years of Christ's reign and have their opportunity for salvation at that time.

What of those that would not be able to live up to that years (babies, children, aborted foetus)

The question is Do children, babies, and aborted foetus go to Hell or Heaven?

@rezzy

God can't make a mistake

I didnt say God does but you have to explain the below verses so as to get the picture clear

Does God change his mind?

Yes. The word of the Lord came to Samuel: I repent that I have made Saul King, (I Samuel 15:10 to 11)

No. God will not lie or repent; for he is not a man, that he should repent (I Samuel 15:29)
Yes. And the Lord repented that he had made Saul King over Israel (I Samuel 15:35).

In addition, the Bible shows that God repented on several other occasions:

i. The Lord was sorry that he made man (Genesis 6:6)

I am sorry that I have made them (Genesis 6:7)

ii. And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do to his people (Exodus 32:14).


Please all quotes are from your bible. I didnt mean anything bad

Thanks

@jesoul

Do I really need to reply this?

It is not compulsory that you must reply provided when you have no response to the issue at hand.


Anyone who's genuinely intrested in understanding that portion of scripture will get it, and anyone who's looking for another way to misconstrue and twist the words and intent of Jesus will continue to do so - regardless of anything anyone says
and babs787 - you are the latter.


Sister, you may deceive yourself for all I care. We are all reading the bible together and I have given you verses where they showed Jesus PHYSICAL SWORD and he couldnt rebuke them for that. Common, why did he tell them to buy sword and didnt caution when he showed him one?


@uspry1

Simple go getting the rented DVD gospel movie called "The Passion of the Christ", it tells everything from the begining through the Lord's Supper prayer, how Jesus is arrested, and why Jesus is crucified VERY CLEARLY!

Do you need to go to a movie before you will understand your bible. I have been serving you verses from your bible witthout twisting anything from it. Jesus after being shown the physical swords said it was enough. Are you saying here that he was not referring to a physical sword. Common dont do that.

As for the issue of his crucifixion, you can always create a thread for that and I will follow suit.

Thanks

@Tayo-D


You stylishly deflected the thread with the claim that you would respond to the issue of 'why Jesus tell his disciples to buy sword' but at I will still respond to your last.

No scripture can be rightly interpreted without looking at other verses. God Himself testifies of it that it is a little here and a little there, and there is no scripture without its twin. So you see, all those scriptures do not contradict but compliment each other. The authors' perspectives are different and so their stories come across differently. That is where the Bible differ from the Qu'ran, we do not gather and burn other writings to come up with a politically correct one like is done with the Qu'ran.

Let me first educate you about the Quran before going into your bible that happened to be my first experience. Other writings might have been burnt but the fact remains, no two Quran, verses, chapter are different one completing each other as you have been deceiving yourself with that.
Paul made it known to us that the bible is inspirecas in 1st Timothy 3 v 16 and nobody should add to it or subtract from it in the boom of revelation. Now if really they all wrote according to inspiration, there shouldnt be any sort of contradiction in your book but we learnt that most of those writers were not there to witness the stories but wrote according to how they felt the issue. eg. Luke that told you that he handed it over to you from whom he received same from and decided to write to Theophilus, meaning that he wasnt there but wrote according to what he was given, besides, he wrote to Theophilus and to all of you and shouldnt have been included as part of the revelation of God to Jesus.

Let me stop there to read your story line

As to the story line, all the authors combined give us the full picture. While indeed Judas kissed Jesus to identify Him, the Soldiers asked Jesus to also identify Himself just to be sure that they are getting the right person. If I take the Police along with me to arrest someone, and I point out the person, it is only judicious of the Police to ask the accused to identify himslef also. This is only common sense.

Thou shall not lie. Let me serve you the two verses and you will see that in the first one, they did not know Jesus and he had to tell them that he was the one while the other verses says that Judas showed Juses to them by betraying him with a kiss.

Here I go:

First verse


John 18: 4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
7 Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.
8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:
9 That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.
10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
12 Then the band and the captain and officers of the Jews took Jesus, and bound him,

We can see from the above verses that Judah stood there without even getting close to Jesus and they asked Jesus same question twice and he identified himself twice as well before Peter drew a sword and cut off one of them right' ear and theyy later took him away without Judas kissing Jesus.

Let us go into the second contradictory verses to see the fraud therein


Mark 14:44: 'And he that betrayed him had given them a token, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he; take him, and lead him away safely.'


In the above, Judas told them that whoever he kissed shouyld be arrested while in the first gospel, Judas never got close to Jesus let alone kissing him.

Also



Mark 14 v 44 - 46

14:44. And he that betrayed him had given them a sign, saying: Whomsoever I shall kiss, that is he. Lay hold on him: and lead him away carefully.


14:45. And when he was come, immediately going up to him he saith: Hail, Rabbi! And he kissed him.

14:46. But they laid hands on him and held him.


Going forward, we can see from the above that Jesus did not showed himself but Judas had to do that by kissing him.


Look at this too:

Matthew 26:48-50 (NIV)

48Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: "The one I kiss is the man; arrest him." 49Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, "Greetings, Rabbi!" and kissed him.

In any case, you have tried to dance around the subject being discussed by coming up with this.

You have been the one doing that after having served you the whole truth.

The bottom line is that Jesus had the power in His words alone to defend Himself as the scriptures here testified.

No, he couldnt do that without the support of his creator.

So there is absolutely no need for the sword.

You havent replied to why he commanded them to buy sword and if you are saying that he didnt mean physical sword, why didnt he rebuke Peter when he showed him physical sword.

That should get you to rethink your stance that Jesus needed swords to defend Himself.

He didnt want to die because he didnt come to die but to preach the gospel which God sent him to come and do and read your bible where he hid for Jews when he learnt they wanted to kill him, he prayed to God to deliver him and cried to God, 'why has thou forsaken me'

Besides, the same passage said Jesus knew all that was coming to Him, and He rebuked Peter after Peter declared that Jesus' death and suffering must not be allowed to happen. You want scriptures for that too?

He may be aware of things to happen because God might have showed him but he didnt come to die for you and there is nowhere in the OT where his death, crucifixion and resurrecting after three days was prophesised and if you think you have, let me have it.

Thanks

@flowingcome

Insert Quote
olabowale, may GOD 4give u. u can't understand anything because u're living in the dark. the harder u try to understand, d more confused u become. just check out all the things u have written, do they make any sense to u? WAKE UP. t[b]he God of the xtians is a loving GOD and a GOD of peace. [/b] can u say same about Allah? my GOD is not a GOD of violence. think about this and repent from your ways. fellow xtians in the house, don't bother explaining anything anymore, he wont understand. just pray for him to realize the truth.

Let us read verses about the loving and peaceful God in the bible

Deuteronomy 13:6-9 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."


Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, , and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."

2 Chronicles 15:13 "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman."


Deuteronomy 2 v 32-37


And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land. 32 Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz.
33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.
34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain.
36 From Aroer, which is by the brink of the river of Arnon, and from the city that is by the river, even unto Gilead, there was not one city too strong for us: the LORD our God delivered all unto us



Deuteronomy 3 v 1-7

1 Then we turned, and went up the way to Bashan: and Og the king of Bashan came out against us, he and all his people, to battle at Edrei.
2 And the LORD said unto me, Fear him not: for I will deliver him, and all his people, and his land, into thy hand; and thou shalt do unto him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon.
3 So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining.
4 And we took all his cities at that time, there was not a city which we took not from them, threescore cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan.
5 All these cities were fenced with high walls, gates, and bars; beside unwalled towns a great many.
6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.
7 But all the cattle, and the spoil of the cities, we took for a prey to ourselves

Do you still need more so that I serve you?

When you try to deny the above verses, I will give you facts that christians need to follow the OT.

@uspry1

Go look at your bible in the book of Relevation that describes what does Jesus look like, today?

Can I have his dscription from the bible?

His appearance is more terrifying and awesome than words can describe.

Oops How did you arrive at that sister?

The apostle John made an attempt to describe him in Revelation 1:12-16.

But he didnt succeed huh?

None of the pictures is real and you would have known that they are false because you keep seeing different pictures here and there.

Even if you land your hands on the alleged pictures of his crucifixion and where he was tied to a stake, you would see that the pictures are very different from each other.

I can categorically tell you that it is the work of the Jinn (Demon). The Jinn has the grace of living up to 80,000 years and more than and Jesus' mother, Mary was around when they showed her one of the pictures and she declined that that couldnt have been her son. The Jinn used what people believe in to deceive them.


You also read below part of my brief journey from christianity to Islam and the way Jinn deceived people through the so called Jesus appearing to them in their dreams.

The first experience I had with the so-called Jesus appearing to someone in a dream was when I was in Secondary School. I was not yet a muslim then. A muslim friend of mine (an alfa, very religious) came to me and his other friends and told us that he he saw Jesus in a dream telling him to come and worship him. He also said that in the dream, the disguised Jinn told him that if he did not come and worship him, he would perish. After hearing the story, as a christian, we told the guy that since Jesus appeared to him by himself, we don't need to preach to him again that he should just accept Jesus into his life.

After so many years, I had another experience through a yoruba movie then called "Agbara Nla" (Mighty Power) produced by Mount Zion Faith Ministries. There I watched how the pastor (s) prayed for a demonic possessed lady. From there, I learnt that if you pray fervently to a demonic possessed victim, the jinn (called demon in christianity) will talk through the victim. You will be able to interact with the demon and likewise ask the demon anything you feel like knowing e.g, the reason for entering the victims body etc. After discusiing with the demon, through your prayer, the demon will leave the victims's body and never come back.

After walking in the darkness for years (probably to learn lots about christian's doctrine), I REVERTED to ISLAM.

Alhamdulillah, the society I belonged specialises in casting out jinn from a possessed victim. There is this prayer called RUQIAH in which if you are to say it to any demonic possesses victim, the demon will leave the victim but yo must be strong in faith. But for a muslim that is not strong in faith, the only thing you can do is to be playing the tape, disc etc, if the demons are in your room, they will be uncomfortable and leave.

The last experience I had opened my eyes to the lies perpetrated by Jinns.

There was this lady called Mariam, a secondary school student. She was very religious and very brillant. Along the line, she offended the Jinn and the jinn entered her body, kept disturbing her making her feel uncomfortable to the extent that at times she couldnt control herself. She was in Science class but due to the disturbance by the jinn, he knowledge reduced, she moved to Commercial and finally to art class.

When her parent noticed her being possessed, they sent for the Ustazh and he with others prayed for her and she was relieved but some months later, her parents had to call again telling us that her sickness had started.

Off they went to Ibadan to meet Mariam and they prayed for her. During the prayer , the jinn felt uncomfortable, feeling the hotness of the prayer and had to voice out.

The jinn started talking through mariam and said that she came all the way from Korea.The Jinn said that she was in Mecca before Abraham was born but when he was born, she had to leave and come to Nigeria. From the jinn, I learnt that the least number of years spend before they die is 80,000 years.Some do live up to 500,000 years or more.

The jinn said they work directly for Iblis (satan) and they too they have the people that are working for them. She mentioned Awolowo, Fela Anikulapo Kuti, Pastor Kumuyi of Deeper Life, Pastor Fakeye of white garment church, Fasheun, leader of the OPC that they all came for wordly gains.

Having said that, the jinn continued that, they used to go to Heaven to hear what is being said (they are being used by sootsayers, palmist, fortune teller etc) but that when the Quran was about to be revealed, they were pursued with fire and brimstones.

The jinn continued that Islam is the way and the truth but that it looks hard to practice and that whether you like it or not, be you christian, atheist, budhaism, muslim etc, its this same Arabic that everyone will speak on that day.

The jinn continued about the speaking in tongue especially by the white garment churches. The jinn said that they are always at work in that aspect.

The jinn continued when asked about the so-called picture of jesus being carried about.

The jinn said that, most christians are not reasonable that THE PICTURE IS NOT THAT OF JESUS BUT WHAT THEY BELIEVED AS JESUS. The jinn continued that THEY SHOWED THE PICTURE TO MARIAM, MOTHER OF JESUS BUT SHE DECLINED THAT, THE PICTURE IS NOT HER SON'S. THE JINN SAID THAT IT WAS THEIR WORK THAT CAME UP WITH THE PICTURES.
Honestly, if christians are really wise, they would have noticed that there lots of pictures potrayed as Jesus. Some you will Jesus having beards, some you wont see. Even at the so called cricifiction, you will some pictures having crown of thorn, some having beards while some will not have beards. Na wa o. May Allah continue to increase our knowledge in Islam.

The Jinn then said that if only the christians have sense, they would have seen that the picture of the LAST PROPHET IS NOWHERE TO BE SEEN BUT ONLY SEEING THAT OF THE PROPHETS YEARS BEFORE THE LAST PROPHET AND THAT IF IT CAN, THEY THE JINN WOULD HAVE SHOWN PEOPLE. The jinn said that Allah made it impossible for them so that they wouldnt be carrying pics around their necks, homes etc and worsipping the pics.

The Jinn then said that what they normally do for the believers is that, in a dream, they will show the so called picture of jesus with lights shining to the picture and will tell the person that this is jesus, that this your last chance to worship me, that if you don't, you will perish

I was shocked when I heard this because if someone had told me, I wouldnt have believed.

So years later, that alfa friend of mine and I met and I had to tell hin the story and play him the tape. He thanked me and tod me that ever since the school incident in which he dreamt, he never prayed as he used to and very confused about Islam but that now, Allah has shown him really that Islam is the way and the only religion. He has started praying and fasting like he used to as a muslim.

To you now, the so called picture is that of Jesus. Why don't we have pictures of those that came after him, can't you think? Enough of this deception. Is that really Jesus. Having you seen black Jesus. Whites draw the picture of Jesus as white man while some black are having black pictures. But if white wants to draw satan, he will paint it black. Na wa o, May God help christians.

Also Alhamdulillah, through this tape alone, I was able to convert a lady years back. She was suprised, she has never heard it before. I told her that Allah has been showing signs but people has been waiving it aside. I told her about the snail that came out from the beach and has 'LA ILAH ILALAH MUHAMMED ROSULULAH" written on its body, some trees in germany having that same type of message, a tree at Army cantonment at Ikeja having same, a baby was born at Agege, a suburb of Lagos State having the same message on her forehead. We also have a case of a boy in Tanzania preaching the gospel of Islam etc. The lady denounced christianity and accepted Islam and I took her to some sisters that did the bathing to Islam and other things for her. She is now assisting in spreading the message of Islam.

Early last year, I woke up and felt a stange hotness of the body, I grabbed my Quran started recitation but still felt uncomfortable. I started reciting La ilah ilalah and along the line, something within me told me that I should mention the name of Jesus in which I declined and continued with the supplication to Allah. Along the supplcation, I slept off and woke up the next day feeling refreshed as if nothing happened. If I had said the name of Jesus stuff which was the work of the Jinn, I would have thought that there is power in that name having woken up refreshed the next day and would have doubted Islam.

You may read others here

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-16387.96.html


Thanks

@Leilah

jazakhallah khair and eid mubarak! I have no prolem with islam astagfir allah I need tobuild up my iman.

May Allah make it easier for you and do feel free to ask knowledgeable muslims anything you are not clear about as far as Islam is concerned.

Jazakhullah Khairan and Eid Mubarak

@Nwando

My dear Hindus kill for another reason altogether,not that any killing is better.
In Jordan honor killers are celebrated and are punished with a slap on the wrist.That is sharia for you.

You will never change or stop deceiving yourself.

@Tayo-D


I will be looking forward to read your rebuttal to my post  ut in the absence of that, I will quickly attend to your last below:

I don't have much time for a rejoinder now. But here is the scripture you asked for:

John 18: 4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? 5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. 6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. 7 Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth. 8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way: 9 That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none. 10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. 11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it? 12 Then the band and the captain and officers of the Jews took Jesus, and bound him,

Your above quote showed that they do not know Jesus and he had to ask them who they were looking for. Now read another verses contradicting what you gave me. From the verse you gave me, it is known that they do not know Jesus and he had to tell that he was Jesus, so let us look at the verses to see if really Jesus identified himself or Judas did that with a kiss.


Mark 14:44: 'And he that betrayed him had given them a token, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he; take him, and lead him away safely.'


Mark 14 v 44:

14:44. And he that betrayed him had given them a sign, saying: Whomsoever I shall kiss, that is he. Lay hold on him: and lead him away carefully.


14:45. And when he was come, immediately going up to him he saith: Hail, Rabbi! And he kissed him.

14:46. But they laid hands on him and held him.



Also

Read Matthew 26:48-50 to see that Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss.

26:47 And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people.

26:48 Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast.

26:49 And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him.

26:50 And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him.


Matthew 26:48-50  (NIV)
   
48Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: "The one I kiss is the man; arrest him." 49Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, "Greetings, Rabbi!" and kissed him.

50. Jesus replied, "Friend, do what you came for."


Tayo-D, which do I hold on to? Jesus showing himself or Judas betraying him with a kiss?

Thanks




@babyosis

yes Jesus asked his followers to buy a sword, they understood the sword to be the sword of the Spirit but guess what?
Muhammad and his followers instead bought literal swords and went a-slashing

The rest of the story can be found in www. mohammed slash slash slash.come AKA koran and hadiths

Your post came in while trying to reply tayo-d, so I will treat the two together.

The question still is WHY DID HE TELL THEM TO BUY SWORD AND COULDNT CAUTION THEM WHEN PETER SHOWED HIM SWORD but rather than rebuke him he said that it was enough.

@Milenna

1. God cannot break His convenant.
2. God cannot lie.
3. God cannot sin.
4. God cannot send His word without the word achieving that which it was sent forth for.
5. God cannot loose a battle.
e.t.c, too numerous to be written

Does God change his mind?

Yes. The word of the Lord came to Samuel: I repent that I have made Saul King, (I Samuel 15:10 to 11)

No. God will not lie or repent; for he is not a man, that he should repent (I Samuel 15:29)
Yes. And the Lord repented that he had made Saul King over Israel (I Samuel 15:35).

In addition, the Bible shows that God repented on several other occasions:

i. The Lord was sorry that he made man (Genesis 6:6)

I am sorry that I have made them (Genesis 6:7)

ii. And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do to his people (Exodus 32:14).


Please all quotes are from your bible. I didnt mean anything bad.

@Kobojunkie

That is true but, I don't think this thread is an appropriate place to discuss what I want to.

Why not. please do jare . I want to learn from you.

He told the thief today you shall meet me in paradise.

How many thieves were crucified along with him?

The gospels say that two thieves were crucified along with Jesus. Did both thieves mock Jesus? Yes (Mark 15:32)

No. One of them mocked Jesus, the other defended Jesus (Luke 23:43)


Did he ascend that same day?

Yes. He said to the thief who defended him, Today you will be with me in Paradise (Luke 23:43)
No. He said to Mary Magdelene two days later, I have not yet ascended to the Father (John 20:17)

@Tayo-D

@All,

When people like babs787 and His hordes of blood-thirsty believers in allah try endlessly to associate Jesus with violence, one can't but wonder why this is so. In any case, it doesn't take a degree in rocket science to realise that their faith cannot stand on its two legs without a reference to Christianity or Judaism. Afterall, every fake product out there always find a way to atach itself to the authenthic product, either through its name or by repacking the same product though using inferior materials.

Welcome from the moon. I am not surprised at your response because you have all been known for going other when simple question is being asked despite the fact that the verses are self explanatory.

In a desperate attampt to justify Muhammad's blood-thirstyness, babs787 is trying to make us believe that Jesus was an advocate of armed conflict. How can He be an advocate of armed conflict when He taught that we should turn the other cheek when we are struck? How can He be blood thirsty when He stopped one of His overzealous Disciple from continuing bloodshed, and rather healed him that was hurt?

Point of correction, I am not the one making you believe that but your bible and your un-inspired authors did that. Now, go to the verses:

Luke 22v 36-38
36 Then he said to them: “But now let the one that has a purse take it up, likewise also a food pouch; and let the one having no sword sell his outer garment and buy one.

37 For I tell you that this which is written must be accomplished in me, namely, ‘And he was reckoned with lawless ones.’ For that which concerns me is having an accomplishment.”

38 Then they said: “Lord, look! here are two swords.” He said to them: “It is enough.”

Beating about the bush will not solve the issue. It is a known fact that he ordered them to buy sword because he thought that few would come for his arrest but was shocked when he saw almost 500 Romans coming for his arrest. Now if he was not prepared for war, he wouldnt have positioned them at the place he went to pray, he came to where they were and found them sleeping almost twice and told them that 'why couldnt they watch over for him'. please what are then watching over and why the need for that? You say till tomorrow that Muhammad was a warrior, but he wasnt the only one, go through your OT and read about Moses, Josephat etc and come to tell me that they were blood thirsty too.

My question to babs787 is this: Why didn't this same Jesus use a sword when the crowd were going to throw Him over a cliff?

Using a question to ask another when you have not been able to provide answer despite seeing the glaring instruction is a sure proof of your dishonesty. Now, in your quote above, did he tell them to buy sword and can you serve me the verse where they wanted to throw him over the cliff, I want to use something there?

Why would He need a sword when just by a spoken word from Him, the army that came to arrest Him fell back.

Can you serve me the verse please?

Is it not the same Jesus who said if he so wished, he could have called on His Father to send Him legions of Angels at that point in time to deliver Him (and not men with swords)?

Ok, do you of the verses where he couldnt save himself but had to pray to get with sweat coming out of his body like thick blood. If he could save himself, he didnt need to pray up to that lenght, he should have commanded God to do his wish and do you remember the story of the fig tree where he cursed the fig tree rather than command same to bear fruit.


Why would He need a sword when it is written of Him that not even will his foot hit a stone becase Angels have been given charge over Him.

Tayo-D, why are denying the glaring truth. His disciples showed him physical sword and he told them it was enough. So please if he wasnt interested, he wouldnt have commanded them to do same and would have rebuked them when shown the physical sword.


As someone said earlier, all that happened to Him were His Father's will which he clearly submitted to in the Garden of Gethsemane and all through His life. He was so eager to get on with the cross that he told Judas to go do what he knew he was going to do quickly. He knew His disciples would scatter when He would be arrested and already told Peter that he would deny His master 3 times before dawn.


Na lie. Jesus no wan die. Firstly, he didnt walk openly when he learnt that they wanted to kill him and he had escaped from them on many occassion while preaching. If he came to die willingly, he wouldnt have prayed to God to save him to the extent that his drops were like thick blood and lastly, from his last cry, it showed that he never came to die hence his saying[b] 'my God, my God, why has thou forsaken me?[/b]

If his death has been planned, why are you labelling Judas a traitor because he was never one, he sped up what Jesus came to do and on the issue of Peter denying him trice, there are contradicting statement on that:


What did Jesus say about Peters denial?
The cock will not crow till you have denied me three times (John 13:38)
and
Before the cock crows twice you will deny me three times (Mark 14:30) .
When the cock crowed once, the three denials were not yet complete (see Mark 14:72).

So you see, it takes a man with an agenda to deny these truths and try to pin the unpinnable to him whom the scriptures refer to as the Prince of Peace.

You are the one denying the truth after having served you the truth of the whole issue and please was Jesus really a prince of peace?

@ekorick

2007 AD. He told the thief today you shall meet me in paradise.

Can you share where you read that with me, be it the bible or anything I cna lay my hands on?

1. When and Where did Moses saw God?
2. When and Where did Jesus saw God?
3. When and Where did Abraham saw God?

If you cannot give the time and venue, at least give us the story,

I am very sure she will come with all the information you may be needing

@ekorick

He was only trying to tell them to tighten their belts spiritually.

Abeg dont give that . Where did the issue of spirituality comes in? He told them to sell what they may bge having and buy sword and Peter showed him a PHYSICAL SWORD and Jesus said that it was enough.

Now if Jesus was referring to spiritual sword therein, he would have explained to them and also cautioned Peter when he showed him the physical sword. For Peter to have showed him a physical sword and for him not have go against it showed that he was referring to a physical sword.

If I may refreshen your memory, Jesus made it know to us that he was referring to physical sword because he told them:

Luke 22v 36-38
36 Then he said to them: “But now let the one that has a purse take it up, likewise also a food pouch; and let the one having no sword sell his outer garment and buy one.


In the above verse, he made it known to us that if none is having sword (physical), he should sell whatever he might be having and buy one.


37 For I tell you that this which is written must be accomplished in me, namely, ‘And he was reckoned with lawless ones.’ For that which concerns me is having an accomplishment.”


A christian tried interpreting this very verse wrongly. He forgot that Jesus Peter showed him the sword after that statement.


38 Then they said: “Lord, look! here are two swords.” He said to them: “It is enough.”

Now read the above. They told him they are having physical sword and he said to them that it is enough. So why are trying to twist the verse? He instructed them to buy swords and when they showed him, he said that it was enough.

So why did he tell them to buy physical sword?

You know the incarceration of Paul and Silas and the death of John the disciple

I will appreciate if you can serve me that

He never died for the sin of anybody.

@dot2002

nice so hell here i come or i might ask for forgiveness after all David was pardoned, Peter was pardon and Paul was pardoned.

You can even go on and blaspheme because Jesus said that all blaspheme would be forgiven. In one verse he said blasphemy against son of man has forgivess but that of holy spirit has not forgiveness which further shows that Jesus happened not to be of the triune god.

Why not be a muslim sister?

@tomx

Jesus himself answered your question in the next verse . . .

Quote
Luke 22:37

37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
KJV

Brother, the above does not have any relationship with what we are discussing here. The above does not have a solution to the issue of telling them to buy sword and not cautioning them when same were presented.

for the things concerning me have an end.

Sure, every creation has an end and that is exact thing he meant but not in anyway related to the perceptioon you may be having about JESUS.

Every thing concerning his death had been prophesied and he knew it must all be fufilled.

Cgift made mention of similar thing in one of the threads and I asked him some questions on that but he has not responded but at the same I think this is the avenue for me to read the response from another christian.

Can you please serve me from the OT where it was prophesised that he would be nailed/crucified and resurrect after the third day.

He also knew about his betrayal, sufferings and death but didn't stop those. All that was prophesied about him had to be fulfilled.

Can you give me part of those prophecy from the OT?

Thanks

@dot2002

being born of a woman should not be seen as sin in any sense,

Did you read the verse(s) I served you?


Job 25v4: how can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?


Romans 5v12: wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men for that all have sinned.

look at it even Jesus was born of a woman and he was luckily born perfect.

What do you mean by being perfect? Have you come across a verse in the bible where a man went to calling him 'good' and he told the man 'why called me good? no one is good except theo ne in heaven.

So let me have your understanding of 'perfection'?

I won't be this biased to gender to agree with those verses literarily it has more spiritual connotation than just being physically born of a woman.

Do you read to understand at all? So can you serve me your own understanding of the verses and what it means by all men born of women cannot be clean?

What sin(s) do spontaneously aborted fetuses has.

Children and babies are included my sister

His Jesus by the nature of his birth a sinner?

Are you asking a question?

what makes women such a sinner that nothing good but already corrupt should come out of her?

Are you still asking me sister ? The verses in question were compiled by those that never knew Jesus nor inspired to write those bull shit.

please try to be original with your discussion, i'm more interested in what you have to say or your interpretation of Gods words-writing them again more than 5% of your post is bad practices.

Where have I not been original/ Are the verses not from the bible. I have not interpreted the word of God but gave you how it is written in the bible. Can I have your own revised version different from all I listed up?

1. Praise be to Allah, Who hath sent to His Servant the Book, and hath allowed therein no Crookedness:
2. (He hath made it) Straight (and Clear) in order that He may warn (the godless) of a terrible Punishment from Him, and that He may give Glad Tidings to the Believers who work righteous deeds, that they shall have a goodly Reward,
3. Wherein they shall remain for ever:
4. Further, that He may warn those (also) who say, "(Allah) hath begotten a son":
5. No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. It is a grievous thing that issues from their mouths as a saying what they say is nothing but falsehood!
6. Thou wouldst only, perchance, fret thyself to death, following after them, in grief, if they believe not in this Message.
7. That which is on earth we have made but as a glittering show for the earth, in order that We may test them - as to which of them are best in conduct.
8. Verily what is on earth we shall make but as dust and dry soil (without growth or herbage).

Very straight forward.

Gbam

@Leilah


I have been following your posts and can say that I am still very happy for you most importantly you have not been deceived by hot-gospellers. Nobody is perfect, we tend to learn everyday and misconceptions about our religion cause doubt in that religion etc but I am authoritatively telling youu that Islam is a religion that has complete solution to whatever problem you may be facing and only religion that will be accepted on that day.

I purposely browsed and came with these links for you, you may go there and learn about Islam, faith, the trick use by Jinn (demon) to lure people away from the right religion of Islam etc.

Thank God that you are at least a muslim but my own case happened to be the opposite and in order not to waste time, these are the links and you can always go there to learn more about Islam that it is the only religion God will accept on that day. You can always ask the learned muslims in your area if you are having any problem with regards to Islam or probably ask from muslims here through their email addresses.

These are some of the links and do take your time to go through and understand the message.


https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-16387.96.html


https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-16387.128.html


on trick use by jinn to deceive people.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-16387.96.html


Thanks

@uspry1


Hello, the highlighted quote of yours below caught my attention and I decided to base my response on that and I will be very grateful if you can explain the highlighted verses to me.

I re-read your posting over and over and over. For me i truly believe that all babies, children, and aborted fetuses are going to Heaven REGARDLESS of which religious they belong to, because they all are totally INNOCENT entering the secular world long before learning about accepting Jesus Christ as personal savior.

You said that all babies will go to heaven, the bible came with the notion of original sin that “Jesus has redeemed the world by sacrificing his life to cancel the sin of mankind” that, that original sin was the sin inherited from Adam and Eve through birth!

The bible says concerning the inherited sinfulness of man as follows:

Romans 3v23: for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.


I think the 'all' here include babies too abi no be so?


The sinfulness of man is thus made manifested in these verses and some unmentioned ones. This doctrine is not accidental. The sinfulness of man, according to the bible, is that man is a perpetual sinner, born into sin, reared and nurtured as a sinner because in

Job 25v4: how can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

It therefore implies that, as long as man continue to be someone born of a woman, he cannot be clean!Since babies are born of women too, they can never be clean as said by the bible!!


Even if he does all kind of righteous deeds until his death, he will remain unclean. This will also be applicable even if he accepted Jesus as his saviour! Why? Cos he would remain someone born of a woman and even though he became born again! The reason is not far-fetched, the bible says in:


Isaiah 64v6: we are all as an unclean thing, and our righteousness are as filthy rags, and we all do fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

This inherited sinfulness of man was nurtured from the idea that Adam’s sin was later inherited by all men in:

Romans 5v12: wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men for that all have sinned.


Going forward, the above verses from the bible show that christian babies will automatically go to HELL!! (according to those verses because they will never be clean)

When I see detailed rebuttal, I will then post verses from your bible, contradicting the above sayings which showed that nobody (Jesus) died for anybody.

Thanks

@Jesoul

Olrotimi is right, this portion of scripture (like many others) is not meant to be taken literally.

Ok

Jesus was simply telling them that things were about to change and they needed to be prepared for the upcoming trials and tribulations they would face.

What trials are you referring to that needed the use of p[hysical sword?

The disciples did not understand what he meant at this point and hence answered literally "we have 2 swords"

Hope you are aware that he told me to sell whatever they are having and use to buy sword.

Jesus answered "it is enough" why? when obviously 2 swords were not enough for 11 men to use to fight. He answered "it is enough" as in "you don't understand my point now, but you will later. For now, I've said enough"

Now sister, since you are saying that he was preparing them for trials, why didnt he rebuke them when they told him that they were having physical swords because he knew too well that they would use the swords for attack?



 

If you read further when Jesus was arrested

I did sister

"Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear. "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

Good but it happened because he never thought that so much people would come for his arrest. My question again; why didnt he caution them when they told him that they were having physical sword?

If Jesus had wanted them armed with actual swords, why would he ask His disciple to put down His sword here?

You get it wrong. If he was not interested in any fight whatsoever, he wouldnt have told them to sell what they were having to buy sword and when Peter showed him physical sword, he ought to have cautioned him against using it but had to tell Peter that it is enough

This shows that Jesus had previously not been talking about a "physical sword" but something else they misunderstood. And His negative reaction here to the use of a sword proves it.

Please thou shall not twist Jesus' saying . If he was not talking about physical sword, why didnt he go against it when Peter showed him physical sword? Why did he tell them that it is enough if he was not interested in physical sword?

Thanks

@longman83

Why do you Muslim apologists persist in asking such stupid questions??

It may always look stupid to those that have eyes but cannot see, those who have eyes but cannot hear and those who have this thing upstairs but cannot use it to reason.

You have been callng yourself christians and laying claim to Jesus as being a christian as well. Now I want you to tell me if there anywhere in the bible Jesus used the word' christian' for his disciples and show me any where in the bible that shows that he was a christian along with is disciples.

Are two swords enough to defend twelve men?

They may not be enough because he never thought that up to 500 people would come for his arrest. Please when one of them showed him the physical sword, why didnt he tell him to put away the sword that he was not referring to physical sword and why did he wait till the sword was used in cutting the ear of one of the soldier?

How did Jesus react when Peter used his sword in the Garden of Gethsemane?

Common, stop asking stupid question, beware that I was like you and there is nothing in the so called bible you can use to vdeceive me. I know it even more than you because I spent many years reading same.

Back to the topic at hand .

Now you are asking me how he reacted when he used the sword to cut the ear of one of those that came for his arrest, why did he tell them to buy sword in the first place and when Peter showed him the sword, why didnt he tell him to put it away rather than allowing him to bring it along with him to face the Romans?

Think about if - if indeed you are serious about knowing the truth - then you may realise the inadequacies of a literal translation of the said text.

Brother, stop deceiving yourself. I was in your shoe before I saw the light. Go through the verses and you would notice that Jesus told them to sell whatever the might be having to buy sword. If indeed he meant spiritual sword for spiritual fight here, he would have cautioned Peter when he showed him the physical sword.

Brother, the truth of the matter is that, Jesus no wan die :Dbecause he didnt come to die. Go through the your bible and read how he positioned his disciples for the fight and he he had to pray more than two times and each time he goes back to his disciples, he's always telling them to keep watch. Please if he really wanted to die, wh did he wake them up each time he find them sleeping and he had to ask them that 'why cant they keep watch for him'. Why are they watching? So that enemies would not surprise them.

Let me stop there, I still have more for you to show that Jesus really no wan die and back to the topic, why did he tell thm to buy sword and when one of them showed him the sword, he didnt rebuke him?

Thanks

@pilgrim.1

I hear. Body dey bite you since your 'LOST Torah and Injil' saga.

Far from that. You ignored the issues on the lost Torah and Injil I presented to you.

If you have not been deceiving yourself, the evidence I have been serving you (missing verses in some versions, later insertions of some verses, letters written by those that never saw Jesus during his time etc) and lastly I asked you to tell what the Torah and Injil contain but till now, you havent done that.

So let us use another method to get to the lost, corrupyted Torah and Injil

1. It is believed that God revealed Torah to Moses and please if that you still want to know if the Quran contain that, let me have what the Torah contain and when you are able to do that, we will go into the Quran and give you verses telling all you need to know about Moses.

2. It is also believed that God revealed Injil (Gospel) to Moses and please are you saying God revealed the book of Matthew to Revelation (including letters of Pual, Luke etc) to Jesus. Are you also saying that the NT is the same as the one revelaed to Jesus? What does the Injil contain.

Thank you for your concern, babs787. Thank you. However, my conversion from Islam happens to be the greatest thing that could ever have happened to my life - because anyone who truly believes and trusts in the Lord Jesus Christ as Saviour will never enter Hell fire. None whatsoever.

You have not been able to prove it to me that he was your saviour.
How could someone that couldnt save himself be your saviour?
He ran and never walked openly when le learnt that they wanted to kill him
he commanded his disciples to buy sword thinking that probsbly one or two soldier will come for his arrest butwhen he saw up to 500 soldeirs, he had to tell Peter to put his word back cos he was subdued.
How could he be your saviour when he begged his creator to save him from death.

He even prayed more than two times and that make me wonder how could God that knew what he wanted to do be begging himself not to allow his creation kill him.

In addition, he couldnt save himself from his creation but had to cry out that "my God, why thou forsaken me"

Lastly, Jesus died few hours to the time he was crucified after drinking vinegar that was having stimulating effect and supposed to give him strenght having forgotten that people have been undergoing the same crucifixion, crurifragium, crucifiction etc and spent up to three days before they could die and some would have their legs broken before they could die.

Sister, I am ready for you with the issue of Jesus being youre saviour.

Barka Da Sallah.

I forgot to add that too.

Barka Da Sallah to all muslims.

@stranger26


Jazakhullah Khairan

@PTH- davidylan

Olabowale, you can't sit there telling us about what you don't know.

What is it that you know so much?

You constantly leave yourself open to ridicule anytime you try so hard to force christianity into the mould of islam. Perhaps it is a thing of shame for your non-existent "prophets" or those u borrowed from the bible to sufer such humiliating death but the bible tells me - Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Bible tells you but have you think about the authors of the so called book, whether they were inspired or not. I can see that you included letter of Paul as part of the revelation given to Jesus. Please did he know Jesus before his death and to refreshen your memory, he contradicted himself in two verses where he first said that only him heard thje voice but others did not and in another place, he lied that they heard him (sorry i didnt give you the verse cos u understood where i am going).

Please was Jesus crucified or hangeth on a tree?

Simply because Muhammad said so? Christ's death and resurrection had thousands of witnesses who also penned it down for our edification . . . where are the witnesses to islam's denial?

Can you share some of the thousand witnesses with me? Let me awaken you from your slumber, go to your bible and you would read that none of his disciples witnessed the drama, they all stood from afar and watched.

Please, when was he crucified and was it in Jerusalem or outside Jerusalem?

Who are referring to as witnesses? Did the the gospellers witness the incident and please are you saying the penned down story is the same as the revelation given to Jesus?

Either you did not understand my statements or u are dishonestly trying not to. Here is what i initially said . . . There have been several copies of the books of the bible found at various places and at different time periods . . . NOT ONE of those books has been found to be even subtly different from the bible we carry around.

Really, thou shall not lie

You instantly struggle to bring up the RSV published in 1952. The RSV is simply an individual version of the original scrolls on which the bible was written in earlier times. The dead sea scrolls contain the original books of the bible written thousands of years ago and not just in 1952. They contain John 3:16. . . anybody can wake up tomorrow and publish "David's Revised Bible" and choose to remove the entire book of Genesis. It does not make the original scrolls corrupt!

Now brother, you and your folks ignored those I served you in which early edition omitted some verses while later edition inserted same. Please if they have been writing the bible with inspiration, there shouldnt have been any sort of omittion and later addition.

Brother even in the very bible you may be holding now, I will still show you missing verses therein and if I may ask you, why do you choose to go about with incomplete book of God when you know that the book is incomplete, why not go for the complete book.

Let me have the version and the year of the bible you are having with you and I will show you missing verses from same and will also let you know that no two versions are the same despite the fact that they are all claiming to have writing same through inspiration.

Quote
I am not sure if I do not know who this PTH guy is. But I need to let you know that your Bible is corrupt, the OT is corrupt, the Psalm is corrupt and the NT is corrupt!

He is still davidylan

Yep we've heard that a million times. . . what's new? Where is the injil and torah all sent down and confirmed? Bring it first before you start crying about a corrupt bible. Where you not the same person reading mohammad into Isaiah 53?

You cant deny the fact that its corrupt and you have been served evidence that its corrupt, tampered with.