₦airaland Forum

The project is a bloody waste of money and likely just another avenue for them to siphon money into the pocket of corrupt individuals.

Street hawker of Sapele water 

my mind is on my money, and my money on my mind

from her shortened first name, and initials of her middle names and surname
<clap for yourself>

gabrywyl:
What does that mean?   

She is our bride; its not fiction, she is our wife!

intimi wetin? all nah to try impress you.
If to say, you no get husband, I for don carry go
but as thins be, I no dey pursue married women

She already knows that I would date her everyday of the week and twice on Sunday!!!

bs

Sky Blue:
I am just curious as to what you mean by the part in bold. We need to "spread development"? What does that really mean though? Sorry, it just sounds like some nightmarish quota system. People who want to develop should stand up, get involved and hold their government more accountable so that their government invests in ventures that would make the area more conducive for business and development. Whatever little development that is actually occuring in the country called Nigeria should be suported and not hindered or manipulated so the development "spreads". Are we to blame the underdevelopment of other parts of the country on the governor of lagos who is actually doing something?

It is nothing like a quota system, but rather an argument that the investment of public funds in certain cities should be done with consideration for the effects of such projects on the demographics and standard of living of associated regions. I do not subscribe to the approach of the government investing in that which does not need public funds simply because it is cheaper or more visible.

A local example (to avoid the tribal sentiments some wish to attach to the discourse): the Lagos state government, under Bola Tinubu, converted the Ikeja General Hospital, which was the top general hospital in Lagos state, to a teaching hospital for the Lagos state university, as opposed to actually developing the General hospital at Ojo, the latter being a move that would have been more beneficial to the local community, and the state as a whole. The Ikeja GH was popular and was already receiving substantial support from the private sector, like from the late Sir Mobolaji Bank Anthony and the establishments of the Ikeja industrial area. The state governor unwisely went after the low hanging fruit.

The water filling algorithm should be the exception and not the norm

jamace:
b 458

Invalid


A 462

tpiah:
and once again, YOU are missing the entire point of what a capital ought to be.

This isnt about your alleged love for Lagos- its all this unecessary love for sentiment that blinds Africans to reality.

[b]Every capital in the world is the subject to development.[/b]Since a capital is likely to draw people from different areas and walks of life.

When the British came, some areas were already highly urbanized- Benin city is one example. The Yorubas in particular have always had a high percentage of town dwellers, as various records and oral accounts show. The topography of the west is one reason for that. In the east there were Onitsha, PH, Calabar

Kano and Kaduna were already urban centers before the British came. Lokoja, where Lugard was headquarted, isnt on the coast. Neither is Jos, which many whites like for the climate.

Washington DC is also located on the extreme eastern edge of the US - what's your explanation for that ?

Lagos is a Portuguese word meaning lagoon. There's a town in Portugal called lagos which used to be a slave port. Dont know if you see any connection there.

The British may have told you they chose Lagos as the capital because they wanted an easy escape route from the peaceful lagos natives, but I 'm sure other factors like shipping, the nature of the coast, and trade routes also came into play.

California was never the seat of government- Lagos and some other places were. So I dont get your comparison here. Neither do I understand your weeping over Lagos being made the capital. During the Gold Rush, people from all over the US and abroad, rushed to California to make their fortunes.  The place later developed. So either way, you're still off base with your analogy. Not to mention the US is way bigger than Nigeria and most of the states developed at their own pace. There are still places in the US where the state capital is the most urbanized- with most other places relatively rural.

As I pointed out, other parts of Nigeria besides Lagos are also urban. They may not have as many skyscrapers as lagos but that doesnt mean they're all hamlets containing only goats and chickens.

and now you have lost me completely, as I simply don't see the point you are making.

A few questions that might help me clarify your position

1. Do you feel Lagos is more suited to being the capital vs Abuja (or any other city)?
2. Do you feel Lagos wouldn't have developed if it wasn't the federal capital?
3. Do you feel there is another city more (or equally) developed than Lagos?
4. Do you prefer we concentrate development in a few already developed cities or spread it around?

ugozzz:
wetin go come ur mind 1st if u see ur papa 4 asewo house,and him carry the girl wey u want carry?

ask him if he feels the asewo would lower the rates if we subscribe to a family plan

[quote author=Sammy107_d link=topic=273037.msg3878037#msg3878037 date=1242500569]Well, since I can't find any naija man on this thread that'll tolerate a non-cooking wife, good luck to the women who think they can work things out (except they find a male women rights activist).[/quote]Even then, do not be surprised if said activist does not practice what they preach.

Roughlen:
@ Biina and Ilelobola

I quite agree with your suggestions but it will be a great mistake on my part to attempt to give her a lecture on financial prudence or give any impress that she is not financially prudent as that will only call for some serious tongue-lashing and more name calling.

Unfortunately, that is the kind of woman i'm married to.

Thanks anyway for your advice.

You need not take the lecturing approach (as some do not respond positively to the approach, thinking it condescending), but you can simply guide her to profitable commitments that would help save some of her money form her profligacy. I have often observed that given the same level of information and exposure, people all come to the same conclusion.

Every human has a rudder, with which you can steer them in the right direction, with little effort. It is justified that you spend considerable time and effort towards finding that which works for your wife. Else of what benefit is the fact that her short comings are your areas of strength, if you only indulge her failings. Do not under the guise of avoiding conflicts in the home, become a coward and engender that which is inimical to you and your family. If needed, you can consult and/or seek the assistance of others.

Not wishing you ill, but if you happen to pass away sooner rather than later, do you trust your wife to effectively manage herself and the future of your kids?

FL Gators:
Oh boy, get your mind outta the gutter.
I meant this tools

How did you spot my mind in the gutter, if yours wasn't lying next to mine?
Looking at the pic you posted, I see some 'large implements' that look like a 'self lubricating power drill', right next to a 'ball pen hammer'. Such tools I do agree, one needs to be man

strangleyo:
How many depositors of CityBank, RBC, Bank of Montreal, Barclays Bank, HSBC and Northern Rock reviewed the bank's annual statement before they deposited their money into their accounts?

expect it to be higher than the their Nigerian counterparts, as their level of literacy and enlightenment is much higher.

But even if I concede the fraction to be same in both cases, the relevant follow up question would be: How many of said banks advertise on the NTA network?

One cannot make arbitrary comparisons without seeking to first place the issues in a common context

tpiah:
Your argument is too simplistic and more likely to stoke tribal sentiment, because you're trying to confirm the allegations of intentional neglect without considering other factors.

Being a seaport had nothing to do with Lagos' development, I suppose? That's like saying moving the US capital from Philadelphia and New York to Washington DC was because other parts of the country werent being developed.

One of the greatest problems Nigeria has is the tribal close minded mentality of being out to "get" other tribes and at the same time being convinced other tribes are out to "get" you. A relic of the old headhunting days no doubt.

This leads to communities struggling to put "their" people in crucial political positions in so "their" candidate has a portfolio to develop ONLY his tribal area and nowhere else. Thus for most of them, their hands are tied even before they get there. If such an individual doesnt promote only his own area, he/s seen as a traitor by most of his tribesmen.

Like i said, look at the topography. The capital was moved to Abuja for reasons of security, from what I heard. Lugard had wanted to place it in Kaduna but decided on lagos instead.

Lagos isnt the only city in Nigeria that has some level of development- if you think otherwise then you dont know much about the country. Lagos may have the most skyscrapers (maybe), but there are other places with high population and which have a fair standard of living.

The type of delta we have in Nigeria is either a wave or river dominated type. The coastline changes as you move west- these are all natural factors and not manmade. Same way the topography changes as you move north.

Your response is headed off in the wrong direction. I have no interest in stoking tribal sentiments in whatever form. I did not comment on the reason for moving the capital away from Lagos, and was only commenting on the effect. All would agree that if Lagos was still the capital, Abuja would be far from the level of development it is presently. The primary source of the development of Abuja is because it is the seat of power.

As much as I love Lagos, the truth is that its choice as capital was poor. The British probably chose it for their own political and military needs (it gave them an exit via the sea, as opposed to inland where they could easily be surrounded by opposing forces). Lagos being a terminus city would have developed significantly on its own, but its location as the federal capital city (because of the centralized style of government) aided it with influx of funds and projects, at the expense of other cities. For your information, I have visited all ( and lived in most) major cities in Nigeria. Lagos is not the only city with a substantial level of development in Nigeria, but is definitely the most developed, grasping the lion share in most areas of interest.  The result: the smallest state has the largest population, and hence an exceedingly high population density when compared to other cities. The consequent strain on amenities as resulted in several social vices.

What you missed entirely was the point of my initial post, which was the benefit of spreading development around. The more evenly spread the development is, the lesser the population migration to urban centers and the higher the standard of living of the common man. Nigerians are always too quick to try to add to what is already full. People feel the most developed city should always be the state capital, whereas it is often more beneficial otherwise. Lagos should have been like California, who for all its economic prowess, was never the seat of government.

The dredging of the Niger, if done following due process, will be beneficial to all beyond the people of Ontisha, if only simply for the fact that it spreads the development.

FL Gators:
So what is stopping men from learning to cook?

If they need it for survival.

You think we don't need help in the kitchen too?

rotflmao @ the bucket. oogbadun

But on a serious note, it's unfair, it's sexism.

Many things needs to be fix in a home with little children. If he can't work his tools, then I guess he ain't a man.

<asks innocently> which tools?

Being able to cook and being a good cook are different things. The former is required of all, the latter less so.

Cooking is an acquired skill, that lends itself well to the adage of 'practice makes perfect'. With enough effort and enthusiasm, anyone should be able to learn to cook (giving allowance for the occasional
burnt offering).

Guys on the other hand should learn to appreciate the efforts of their wives in the kitchen, and focus less on the goodness of the results. After all, most guys are well below par in culinary matters.

I think moving the capital away from Lagos is one of the best geopolitical moves of recent times (irrespective of any ulterior motives behind it).

The development of Lagos came at a huge cost to other parts of the countries. Successive government perpetuated the avalanche effect (like the rich getting richer) so much that Lagos has outpaced the entire nation in all departments: the good the bad and the ugly.

Pre-independence, the margin between the major cities was not so much, but presently, Lagos is head above everyone else. The earlier we start developing other cities, the easier it would be for us to become a true federation.

Given a loan to sao tome is not bad in of itself. The key question is what does the Nigerian populace (and not those in power) get in return. The loan could turn out to be a good investment, and could also just become another avenue of waste.

Personally, I feel they should give them the money . What is the worst that could happen, that wouldn't occur if we acted otherwise?

yicob:
I don't just get it, does it mean other industrial sectors advertising on CNN stole money from somewhere ? All what we are saying about this bank are mere conjectures. Stallion Motors spend over N2 Billion yearly to advertise in Nigeria. How many Nigerians can afford chasis ? They dont target much of individuals but corporate bodies. Same thing with banks. They know their target.

The question is not about advertising on CNN per se, but rather the fundamental issue of if the banks are spending depositors funds oin an expensive and likely unprofitable ad campaign.
Nobody is denying the relevance of marketing in business, but rather trying to weigh the costs and benefits of the said ads. (While being an extreme example) wouldn't you question the sense in a local rice seller in lokoja, advertising in new york?

strangleyo:
If the depositors are unhappy with the way the banks are operating, they should take their money elsewhere.

That is a valid argument in a free market environment, hence not applicable as the Nigerian banking sector is regulated, with depositors having limited choices.
Also the average depositor is less informed and often does not see the hand writings on the wall until the palace is torn down. How many depositors review the annual report of their banks?

[quote author=tosh_acer link=topic=272743.msg3877307#msg3877307 date=1242486260]the same stupid, unreasonable and meaningless people contributing on a very un necessary and uncalled for posting, what on earth is your own about where they chose to advertise. This is the problem of the black man, preferring to bury his head to the tiny corner of the world where he belongs and when things passes him globally, he starts complaining it is because of his colour.

How many of you have sought loans from these banks and have been denied? What is your problem with the way they spend their money? Nigerians don't cease to amaze me.

Nigerians in the diaspora, so antagonistic, so dull in thinking.[/quote]That your primary response is ad hominem makes your initial statement ironic.
The inability to relate to a discussion on issues that do not directly involve you in the short term is often tersely referred as being self centered. This is what is truly the bane of the Nigerian economy and polity.
The health of the banking sector should be a concern for all. A failure of the banks will harm the Nigerian economy and might neccesitate public fund being invested into the sector.

[quote author=tosh_acer link=topic=272743.msg3877314#msg3877314 date=1242486478]You mus think about postings here too seriously. So you think a bank will stop what they do because of what is discussed merely on a forum? How do you think?[/quote]and you deem an intellectual discourse quite trivial? While the actions of the banks may (or may not) be influenced by this discourse ( as you little info on those involved in the discussion let alone those that read it), enough cannot be said of the education of oneself or others.

[quote author=tosh_acer link=topic=272743.msg3877344#msg3877344 date=1242486981]With these kind of people representing the way an average Nigeria thinks, I dont see a future for Nigeria, bleak and sad, that is what i see here. Othe countries advertise on CNN, SKy etc, Malaysia is always on SKY, Qatar is always on SKY, but when anything Nigeria comes internationally, the same people who says nothing works in Nigeria stand up to nail it down as meaningless, what kind of people are these?[/quote]Again with the ad hominem comments. If you find the exchange so displeasing, I would rather you stay out of the thread, after all it would be sad for us to debase your higher intellect.

AjanleKoko:
Hmmm. In theory yes, your analysis is spot-on. But there are a couple of things that make this case interesting.

1. Nigerian companies don't measure marketing ROI per se. It's more of an elementary budgeting exercise, i.e. if I have a projected turnover of say, 150bn naira, I need  a marketing budget of N5bn to achieve it. that would be something around $30m in the current forex situation. If I decide that I will spend say $1m of that budget on foreign media exposure, at the end of the day it wouldn't matter, if I can achieve the target turnover and profit. The marketing guys are free to allocate that spend as they like, so they can get away with it.

What happens if you fail to meet the projected turnover? do you proceed to spend the same amount on marketing the following year?Marketing being an inexact science makes it difficult to associate specific ROI with specific marketing campaigns.
Yet, I am not trying to find the rational under which the said campaign is being funded, but only to postulate that it is very likely not on the basis of attracting borrowers or improving the balance sheet. The little it can achieve is to attract depositors (liabilities).

2. Have you ever thought about how it all started? IMO the exposure seems to be working for them, at least it did before the global meltdown, and it probably still is. Post-consolidation, the banks went on a mega-drive for funds deposit, and they seemed to be largely successful. It was one serial IPO after another, and you had banks declaring capitalization in the trillions. The perceived returns from the stock market got the attention of foreign banks who shocking scrambled over each other to join the party. Not Nigerians in the diaspora, foreign financial institutions. Some of these guys were even doing tenured deposits, what we call 'fixing' in Nigeria, cos of the attractive rates Nigerian banks were offering. At a point Morgan Stanley rated the Nigerian economy the best in ROI, to the shock of most of us. See what's happening today, the Fitch AA- ratings have been revised downwards to BB-, and our market went from being rated best performing to worst performing.

In my opinion, the whole thing is just about the hype called Nigerian banking, which has even been fuelled by some of these global institutions in recent times. There is just something about the financial industry and greed, they seem to work hand-in-hand.

Like I said earlier, aggressive drive for deposits is usually reflective of poor profit margins. Depositors are liabilities to a bank and the bank should only take up as much as needed for effective business. A good example were the financial discount houses of time past, who took deposits promising attractive returns, but never lent at a commensurate rate. It all turned out to be a ponzi scheme, in which new deposits were used to fulfill the obligations to the old, with the last depositors being taken for fools.

All we have is evidence of people depositing and/or investing in the bank, there is none indicative of them actually turning over the funds (except you include dodgy transactions like the forex round tripping). Nigerians might have to face another round of distressed banks soon enough.

a 462

mikeansy:
biina

please how did u attach that youtube video to appear as a window in your post.

[*flash=480,385]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxsNl3xRhf4[/flash]

The '*' was inserted to stop it from processing. You can delete it. Thedirect url of the video can be obtained from the embed script

yicob:
Is not as if they just roll out money for advertisment. These guys make yearly budget where they estimate their income and expenditure. They know where to get money without touching depositors funds.
FYI, It takes many heads to come together to reach the decision of advertising on global and new media e.g CNN and Yahoo ! Since the board agrees to spend heavily on advertising, who are we to challenge their deeds. Let's wait and see if one of their depositors would complain that the banks surcharge them for the global and new media adverts. This is like the 3rd year of Zenith on CNN. Would they still continue if there is no huge ROI that's greater than what was invested ? Advertising is not an end but a means to it. Their Marketing force just wont sit in the comfort of their office. They need go out and complement the awareness the advert created. They already have target location cum audience. . . .so they know where to focus. The 4 major characteristics of good ads are (AIDA);
1. Attention
2. Interest
3.Decision
4. Action.
The ad has been successful in getting people's attention. The other 3 are bit successful in conversion rates of 5% to 30%. Thank God, banks don't sell products, they sell services. They welcome both butterflies and true friend customers. The fact that the conversion rate is still low doesnt mean it wont rise. All they need is continuous branding and professionalism at work. It might not take a day to get there, but the results keep accumulating, providing avenue for them to sift performance.
Nuff said ! My N3.00

It seems you don't understand the fundamentals of banking. The major bulk of funds that banks play with is the depositors fund. A bank essentially takes deposit from A, promising returns of x%, and lends it to B, at y%, where x is less than y. The difference (y%-x%) is the banks profit. This is why depositors are listed as liabilities on the banks balance sheet, and borrowers are listed as assets. Depositors are like paid up shareholders, with their version of shares being more volatile depending on the length of commitment. The paid up capital is to limit the leverage of the banks so that they do not rely entirely on other peoples funds (hence being over exposed), and also gives them some in house liquidity to play with (like a buffer). Hence one can see paid up capital as the baseline depositor. Those adverts are paid for with mainly depositor funds.

One should not get lost in the theory of marketing, and lose grasp of the reality of the market. Like I said above, the bank deals with two set of people: depositors and borrowers. The CNN adverts will not draw depositors, as the branch network of the banks is too limited to attract such, the deposits are insured in Nigeria, and anyways the banks have enough funds at their disposal. So we come to the borrowers: who will borrow from a Nigerian bank on the account of a CNN advert? Only Nigerians. The banks are not yet in a position to compete effectively in the global market. Thus do not be surprised if those adverts have yielded no ROI.

One might wonder how a bank survives if it does not get businesses. The answer is that it not too difficult to run a bank on a ponzi/pyramid scheme. Aggressively seeking depositors  enables you to rob peter to pay paul, while waiting for john to fall victim. The aggressive pursuit of depositor by Nigerian banks, as opposed to pursuit of borrowers, is evidence of an underlying unprofitability. Add the lax supervision by the CBN, and you could have an insolvent bank declaring profit.

While one would expect sanity to prevail on the board of any establishment, it is unfortunately otherwise in Nigeria. The board of a bank, and in fact most major companies in Nigeria, are often the culprits of the felony committed against the interests of the shareholders and the company. It is not uncommon for the board to make decisions that would enrich the pockets of the directors in the short term at the expense of the long term health of the bank. The poor corporate governance in the financial sector is evident by the large amount of contracts awarded to entities owned by the directors, and the plethora of personal loans to executives, that are written off as bad debts due to non-payment. To worsen matters, when the bulk of shares of the bank is owned by an individual (directly or through proxies like his wife), the board degenerates to a corporate AFRC where said individual's word is law.

Any interest that might have been generated by the ad, and failed to be translated into a borrower is of no value to the business, and is even worse as you have likely generated business for your compettitor.

strangleyo:
Please don't complain about that.

Banks are private enterprises and they can do what they want with their money. Don't blame the bank's advertising for Nigeria's woes.

Not entirely true, as those funds include money from depositors, a group they have a responsibility to.

RichyBlacK:
False. When laws go against the fundamental human rights of an individual, it is the moral responsibility of other nations to confront those tyrants who do not acknowledge the limits of national sovereignty. Reminders: Afghanistan under the Taliban, Germany under the Nazis, Italy under the Fascists, etc.

and your point being that those countries were invaded on behalf of their citizens? Afghanistan was invaded on behalf of Afghans? Germany on behalf of germans?
Which of the world powers have not tried to conquer another nation in the past, given the opportunity? The world powers have always pursued their own interests

Right now, the only reason Saudi Arabia still exists as a nation is because of Western backing. Their is a long history of instability in the Saudi peninsula and even as recently as the early 90s, the Iraqis would have successfully removed the outdated monarchy if the West had not come to the rescue of the House of Saud. The Saudi government, with all the pomp and pageantry they show is very weak and fragile. Al-Qaeda, an organization founded by a Saudi declared Saudi Arabia her No.1 enemy when it was initially formed. Without American backing, what do you think Al-Qaeda would have done to the Saudi government?

The Saudi legal system is a relic!

Then let the Saudi's get rid of their own relic. What does the action of the saudi government cost you? Have they tried to impose their laws or way of life on you? Let each nation put is own house in order. Trying to impose your ways on another simply because you feel your ways are superior is simply neo-colonial mentality.

yicob:
Some people are smiling to the bank.
http://www.screenafrica.com/news/television/969433.htm

That is a plausible objective.