₦airaland Forum

javaRookie:
There is no "It" here it was God who decided that. To me I think God has predestined man and also has foreknowledge of what ever will happen to his creations. As said in Proverbs 20:24
24 A person’s steps are directed by the LORD. How then can anyone understand their own way?

Even in the book of Ecclesiastes it states that God knows whatever humanity is...
Whatever exists has already been named, and what humanity is has been known; no one can contend with someone who is stronger.

So he knows exactly people who would go to hell and people who would go to heaven. That in turn means that if you have been predestined to land in hell because you are not those he created for heaven, you are doomed!
It is all a Script then.

Isaiah 46:10

10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’

Since he can do as he pleases that means that he keeps on strengthening his foe(Devil) intentionally with his creations who he knows will go to hell. Then turn round to fight the same guy he keeps on building up his kingdom.

The teacher analogy doesn't hold here because a teacher who sets questions for his students knowing fully well that some students will fail woefully has failed in his job as a teacher.

Does this make any sense? In fact, if this were true, we should as well just stop deceiving ourselves. Where you will end up has already been determined by the heavenly council - it might as well be HELL, so stop deceiving yourself!
Hahahahahahaha... I was seriously joking.
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Isaiah 46:10
(Your version)
"I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, 'My purpose will stand and I will do all that I please."
Isaiah 46:10
(Kjv version)
"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"
Please, with reference to that KJV version, replace the word "declaring" with the word "orchestrating"...
We will have
"Orchestrating the end from the beginning"
Let us go local - It's like saying, Hey, hey, hey, I will declare it that the sun will not come up on the 31st of December (even if we are still in 22nd of July), and just as I have said, it will happen.
Now is that the same as knowing the future?
No! Even humans can orchestrate and declare the end of small events (well, with the permissibility of God) right from the beginning.
It's because we don't have a foundation of what exist and what does not, that is why we are dabbling into the error of believing God knows the future.

Xmuslim:
I knew you would come to this. Dr zakir naik even said that plant feels more pain than animals. Lol.

Well, you may want to blame God for not creating alternative food. I will blame evolution. We need food to survive and we eat what's available.

Have you considered my other replies?
Smilesss... You should know that animatarian stuff was an analogy. I just wanted to point out that we can never have a common measure for what is good and bad or what is love and what is evil.
So God is love (Godly love), and many things he does might not seem to be love (humanly love) to you, but trust him, he is right, he has always been!
Zakir Naik? That Islamic scholar? Well I've never had the time or reason to listen to him. I hear he is good at pointing faults in Christianity, one day I will be available to listen to what he has to say.

Xmuslim:
no. I know it is evil even if I do it. I'll graduate to vegetarian one day too

You see, I'm an animatarian; I don't like it when anyone eat vegetables or fruits, it's pure wickedness and inhuman. Why will you hurt that tree? It was fending for itself trying to grow, trying to live a normal tree life, sadly, because you have power over it, you troubled it, took its fruit, and cuts it stem for your own selfish interest- it is very wicked and evil of you.
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1. Can you now see that we will never have a perfect common ground on what LOVE or what GOOD is?
2. The same (silly) thing I'm trying to claim here is the same silly thing men try to claim with God. You don't give a fuxk how the animals feel when you slice their throat, how the trees feel when you cut their bark (c'mon you can see them start bleeding immediately), but you want God to feel the exact way you feel when he take your loved ones away. You want him to consider your tears and your weeping. Sorry o, God is not moved by those salty waters the same way you are not moved when you slice the throat of a fowl.
3. Who decreed the eating of animals to be evil?

Xmuslim:
Blabbermouth I know where you are going with your definition of good. If God cannot understand that killing children hurt the parents, he's limited. Don't compare human and robot relationship. Humans are limited. God should understand everything that human feel. He should know what constitute good and evil to human.

Also, you said God was just for not killing satan. Why did God kill many human according to the bible. What of Noah flood? Obviously God was trying to stop human from offending him. If he had killed satan, there won't be a need to kill as much human.

Foremost, you will be surprised to know that many of those that perished in Noah's flood may not end up in hell. Some will actually make it to the new Jerusalem.
Hahahahahahaha... You need to know many many many things about this God.
Before I explain that, let me treat this from another angle...
1. You are very wicked, unloving and evil for wanting God to kill Satan. The humanly thing for you to ask for was that God should forgive him and let things just go back to the way they were.
Now sir, justify your stance that Satan should be killed.
2.Like I said, A convict can only be sentenced to prison after(not before!) he has been trialed, tried and found guilty of the charges against him.
Now, answer me, have God judged Satan? What is the Judgement day actually for? Is it not to judge?
3. You said God should understand everything Human feel. Hahahahahahaha, he calculated this before you ever thought of it. That is one reason (among many), why the person of Jesus came into the picture. Taste Jesus (technically, read of him) and you will see the personification, perfection and epitome of humanly love. In Christianity, we are actually looking unto Jesus and knowing the character and the express image of this God. If we try to assess him directly (what you are actually doing now), we will never find him. Hahahahahahaha
4. Why did God kill human being? Perhaps, the humans were well meaning and living right before God? When a judge sentences you to death by hanging, c'mon nobody calls that cruelty, it's called JUDGEMENT.. So don't try to shadow box it when God is actually the Judge in this case.
5.God should understand that kill children hurts the parents?
Yes, he does understand the same way you know that a cow/ram is not cool with having you placed a knife on its neck and murdering it in cold blood.
So what do you want him to do? Console the parents? Tell them he's sorry? Behave like cry baby (just like humans do)? Or should he not take the breath that initially belongs to him?
It's such a wonder that humans want a Superman as the Deity and Not a true God.
See, a fowl should cackle and behave just like a fowl
A dog should bark and behave just like a dog
A cat should meow and behave just like a cat
A man should behave like a man
And a God should behave and act like a God.
Each beings according to his nature. It's so selfish to stylishly say, "hey! Stop meting out judgement, stop taking back the breath that belongs to you, when we do what you do not permit just turn a blind eye, if we don't worship you just be looking at us, this is the kind of God we want"
Haba, humans!

Xmuslim, this is for you
Listen to this parable

A man (let's call him a prophet) had the privilege to see God shower his wrath on a city. The city had done so so so great evil in the sight of God and after many many warnings, God decided to treat their Bleep up. He wiped out every man and woman in the city. Howbeit, he didn't stop there, his wrath also descended on the infants in the city, he wiped them all for good.

The prophet understood why God wiped the city, he agreed with God cleaning up the adult male as well as the adult female. However he was puzzled, why did God have to descend his wrath on the innocent infant kids and take their life? He kept pondering and pondering and decided to ask God himself. He made his petition to know why, as to him, killing innocent infants was unjust. "Thou art a just God, why did you then wipe the innocent kids along with their evil parents?"-He cried.

At night, the prophet laid on his bed to sleep but it was as if the winds have been stopped. After trying to cope for some time, he concluded that he will just go and sleep outside. He took his mat outside, laid it and slept on it peacefully. During that sweet sleep, he felt a sharp sting on the nape of his neck. With the speed of lightening, he crushed the ant and continued sleeping. Before he could drift back into his sweet dream, two more ants gave him a very sharp sting. He killed them likewise. This time the sleep was no longer enticing and he was more concerned about the ants. Before he could say Jack, he felt 3 more stings. Now very alert, he stood from his mat and tried to see the bastards disturbing his sleep. He realized that there was a small colony of soldier ants just under his mat. Immediately, he used his feet and a broom to kill those tiny creatures. Then he laid his mat on a new position (of course, he did confirm that there are no more ants) and ventured to continue his sleep. Then God asked him - "Just 6 ants bite you, how many did you kill? He said, I killed them all. God said - 94 ants did you no harm yet you killed them along with the guilty 6, justify yourself. Then the prophet said - all the ants are of the same specie. If I do not kill the remaining 94, it is natural that they bite me and never let me sleep. So knowing that they are of the same intent, I killed them all" .... Immediately, the prophet then realized why God asked him the question. It was the exact question he asked God, and the Lord hath made he himself to answer his question. Then he concluded - truly, thou art a just God!

Xmuslim, everything is plain but different speculation here and there has made it look like its complicated...
What you call "LOVE" or "GOOD" is very very subjective.
There are a rare set of humans that treasure the life of animals. They eat fruit, veggies, water and the likes but not flesh.
To them, killing animals just because you want to fill your tummy is very selfish, evil and inhuman. To you, it's perfectly normal (as per say you have an automatic authority to point and kill any animal you want).
Can you see that what you call "good" is subjective even with the fact that you are human and they are also human.
Let us now broaden the scope....
What angels, or jinns call "Love" or "good" is/will be far different from what we humans see as love and good. They don't have this emotional bla bla bla, feelings, and the likes. So don't expect them to understand that sleeping with a woman is an act of love (smiles.. they might believe you are doing yoga)
What God will call love and good will also be different from what angels and man see as love. While you look at something and say, this is Good. God looks at it and say, c'mon this is not good.
The variance goes on and on (we can even start to consider other animals)...
I find it funny that man wants God to develop feelings, fall in love, crush and do shits like that. All these ones do not exist in his own dimension and being.
So you see how love and "good" is influenced and subjected to the being we are actually trying to consider.
Jesus (human version) was much much talking and relating things like a typical human. The words he said were so so so filled with the essence of love (from A-Z).. Jesus (divine version) in the book of revelation, was talking with a very much changed tone. There was a sharp contrast in the essence of his words. It was exactly the way God talks in the old testament. Yet, He still is love. Just that it has now metamorphosed from a humanly love to a godly love.
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Xmuslim:
I'm not 100% certain on anything anymore ever since I left Islam because I was so sure of Islam before contrary evidence surfaced.

Regarding the miracle you mentioned. Even if they occur, it does not prove that Christian God is kind and love. But let's skip that for now

Do you know why I asked you for your definition of "good"?
Despite how similar it may be, my definition of " good" will surely be different from yours.
God himself made a shocking statement (So sad I can't remember the verse), it was about HIS LOVE.
I tell you, there are some you will observe and say - "How is this one love?"
The truth is, His own perception of love, even if it is similar to ours, is at the same time different (or say, Godly)
Isaiah 55
"My ways are not your ways, so are my thoughts not your thoughts. As the heaven is far above the earth, so is my ways and my thoughts far above yours" -God himself!
So trying to darken counsel with words is very much unwise.
I created a robot and made it to know what "beautiful and ugly" is. Then I said, hey look, this is beautiful!... The robot however said, no its not. I should ask the robot, who enlightened you and gave you the revelation of "Beautiful and Ugliness"..
Over and over and over and over and over again, God many times had taken his time to make Men (and even some angels!) see of a truth that what he did was Just, that what he did was Right, that what he did was spurned from love. And yes! Men after being reenlightened had no choice but to concur and worship.
This God is actually not tasked with the responsibility of proving himself, but many times you see, he does so that all be fulfilled.
Modified:
Listen to this parable
A man (let's call him a prophet) had the privilege to see God shower his wrath on a city. The city had done so so so great evil in the sight of God and after many many warnings, God decided to treat their Bleep up. He wiped out every man and woman in the city. Howbeit, he didn't stop there, his wrath also descended on the infants in the city, he wiped them all for good.
The prophet understood why God wiped the city, he agreed with God cleaning up the adult male as well as the adult female. However he was puzzled, why did God have to descend his wrath on the innocent infant kids and take their life? He kept pondering and pondering and decided to ask God himself. He made his petition to know why, as to him, killing innocent infants was unjust. "Thou art a just God, why did you then wipe the innocent kids along with their evil parents?"-He cried.
At night, the prophet laid on his bed to sleep but it was as if the winds have been stopped. After trying to cope for some time, he concluded that he will just go and sleep outside. He took his mat outside, laid it and slept on it peacefully. During that sweet sleep, he felt a sharp sting on the nape of his neck. With the speed of lightening, he crushed the ant and continued sleeping. Before he could drift back into his sweet dream, two more ants gave him a very sharp sting. He killed them likewise. This time the sleep was no longer enticing and he was more concerned about the ants. Before he could say Jack, he felt 3 more stings. Now very alert, he stood from his mat and tried to see the bastards disturbing his sleep. He realized that there was a small colony of soldier ants just under his mat. Immediately, he used his feet and a broom to kill those tiny creatures. Then he laid his mat on a new position (of course, he did confirm that there are no more ants) and ventured to continue his sleep. Then God asked him - "Just 6 ants bite you, how many did you kill? He said, I killed them all. God said - 94 ants did you no harm yet you killed them along with the guilty 6, justify yourself. Then the prophet said - all the ants are of the same specie. If I do not kill the remaining 94, it is natural that they bite me and never let me sleep. So knowing that they are of the same intent, I killed them all" .... Immediately, the prophet then realized why God asked him the question. It was the exact question he asked God, and the Lord hath made he himself to answer his question. Then he concluded - truly, thou art a just God!

Xmuslim:
thanks a lot for your time.

I know you are also in darkness about many things about the god you are defending. You are only trying to justify your religion because you think the religion is the way to eternal happiness (you may be wrong though).

Like I use to say, if there is a God, we know little about him and if he's not a loving God, we are all in trouble. I hope, we'll be able to overthrown him if he exist. I think human can do better if appointed as God .

Be not hasty to jump into conclusions...
Like you, I was born a Muslim. Many years later, I became a part-time agnostic.
But you see, there is a point where you get (technically, it 's like you are walking on water), where logic will fail you. Your so called reasoning will divorce you. What seems plausible will not make sense anymore.
All that will remain will be Faith. Taking that leap, you will begin your journey.
1. Imagine someone telling you all that had happened in your past, very accurate and even your deepest secrets. You've never met him before nor have you ever talked to him.
That shit up there happened to me!
None of my logic could help me, no reasoning could, not even that "I don't have any idea" last resort.
2. You've had this pain that has made you bedridden for weeks. You were literally crying for death to come and not torment you any longer. Hospital reports says your spinal cord has also been damaged. With just a touch and the mention of a name, that stinging pain was gone (as though it never was there in the first place)
This shit happened for real!
It's funny when someone assume I follow Christ because I'm scared of hell or because I was born into it.
Hahahahahahaha... I took that leap and never have I regretted taking it. I get to know the lord more and more everyday...
The day I knew the truth about this future and free will issue, I was just awed with the wisdom of this entity. When I knew what his grand plan was, trust me, no one can prove it to me that God is actually not love.
Like other agnostic, you are scared. But I trust the Lord, soon you will have an encounter with him, try hold on to logic and your human reasoning, and see how they will all fail you.

Xmuslim:
We all know what is good and what's bad. Or what would you term eternity in hell fire? Good?

Having sex with a woman who is not your wife. Is it good or bad?

HushBingo is guilty of frauding American citizens. Some of his victims died of heart attack, high blood pressure and some died of depression. The judge presiding over God's case sentenced HushBingo to a 20 year imprisonment.
Is the Judge Just or Not? Is such a judge a good judge or a bad judge?
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So many things need to be put aright. The kind of God you have heard about has made it look like He actually does not exist..
Beloved, it is true that there is that Fatherly dimension of him. But you see, this same entity is A King, A Lord, and most importantly in this case, A JUDGE.
You were quick to ask why God did not kill Satan immediately. I should have accused you of being wicked, unjust and terrible for wanting God to kill a spirit just because he actually wanted something that he ought not to crave.

Xmuslim:
Why can't that supreme being command devil to die since he realised he may mislead human (like he misled Adam and eve)? A good parent would stop anything that could harm his child from getting near the child.

Why shouldn't that same being destroy Adam, Devil and his angels/jinns, and Eve and then start with better creations?
If only you understood why everything is the way they are, you would have gone down on your knees, awed by the Wisdom in which everything is wrapped in.

There is a grand plan that I would have narrated if you were a Christian.
There, you would have gotten answer to questions like
1. Why Didn't God immediately kill Devil and his angels?
2. Why didn't God just throw man away and start with a better creation?
3. How will God be able to stop the same thing that happened through Satan after all is said and done? Or How will God cancel the possibility of sin rearing its ugly head in the new era?
A Hint for the question you asked
A just judge will not sentence a suspect or convict until he has been trialed, tried and found guilty.
Satan did rebel, sure! Why did he rebel? Perhaps, he was actually right and was on his right? Have you heard satan's side of the story? C'mon this same Satan was able to drag 1/3 of the angels to his side, how come?
There is just so so so much to know about this God and His grand plan.. Hahahahahahaha

Xmuslim:
Well, I don't quite get your conclusion about God's plan. You ealier said (in the analogy of telephone etc) that God's plan cannot change (if he's concluded on such matter) unlike human plan that can change.

But now you said even God's plan can change.

That aside, since it is possible for God to just forgive in your scenario or kill the son so that his original (good) plan could be manifested. Why did he go for other options that doesn't favour his creation.

A good God would have gone for the option that is favourable to his creation. Or is God not good?

There are many other things about God you need to understand so that the subjective situations that can make God reverse his plans will make perfect sense to you. Howbeit for now, as long as you understand that reversing such plan grandly depends on him and subtly depends on man himself, we can work with that.
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"Or is God not good?" -asked Xmuslim
Please you will have to Tell me what "being good" means to you.
Also, how are you able to split between good and bad?

Xmuslim:
orchestrating/planning events before it happens is the summary of what you wrote.

You concluded that God have the ability to plan events that will happen and his plan can't be altered unlike human plan. Did I get you right?

The last statement is subjective..
See this...
God's plan was for Eli and his generation to forever be priests. Sadly, Eli (actually, his sons) bleeped up and God reversed his promise..
So here you see a being with free will altering what God planned...
However, do you know God could still have had it his way?
1. He could take the sons of Eli and permit the other ones that come out of his loins to carry on with his promise
2. He could have just forgiven Eli
3. He could slay just one of the sons, and use that as a warning so that the other son could correct his ways...
And many more options...
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So that depends on situations.

Xmuslim:
Of course I don't give a fvch about destiny. I do my things my way. I asked because Christian believe in it. If I may ask, which sect do you belong to. The last time I heard a similar view, it was from a jehovah witness fellow.

I'm a Christian. I don't belong to any sect. I don't belong to any denomination. I follow Christ and I serve the living God.

Xmuslim:
Do your sect of Christianity believe in DESTINY?

And does God know with certainty when (date, time, cause etc) I'm going to die according to your belief?

Humans and their funny thinking..
What the hell is "destiny"?
Perhaps you should read any version of the bible and see God using the word " IF" and not "after" or "when"...
And God said - "IF you will walk in my ways, to keep my commandments, as your father David did, THEN I will lengthen your days"

And God said - "This day have I set before you Life and Death. Choose life that you may live....."

God in all his might would never choose for man. The price for your salvation has been paid for long ago, howbeit, you will have to, by your free will, accept such glorious and wonderful gift.

Consider the people of Nineveh
... God sent Jonah to cry against the city, that for their wickedness, the city will be overthrown..
Nineveh knew enough the character of the Lord God, they didn't start packing from the city seeking asylum in other cities. They knew they could appeal to the merciful dimension of this supreme God.
Immediately, they repented, from the king even down to the slaves.
See what happened afterwards
Jonah 3:10 - "And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil ways; and God repented of the evil, that he said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."
IF Nineveh had not/did not repent, God would have destroyed every living man in the city.
Nineveh however did repent, and God didn't destroy anything...
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Xmuslim:
it does not answer the question I asked. Thanks anyway.

You are the second Christian on this forum to point out certain limitations of Christian god.

Some of the conclusion I drew from your explanation

1. Christian god (or your particular god because other Christians may disagree with you) does not know what will happen to himself in the future (because future doesn't exist). Thus, HIS FUTURE IS UNCERTAIN

2. Your god does not know the number of people that will live on the earth from it inception to the end. Because he doesn't know the future.

3. Judgement day may not happen. Because your god doesn't know the future and judgement day is in the future.

4. Your god doesn't know with certainty if jesus would be killed in his second coming

5. Your god can't prophesy future with certainty. Because future is obscure to him and many things could change his plan. For example, your Bible claimed that his original plan was for Adam to live forever in paradise. He didn't know that Adam would be Misled by satan and eventually ended up living on the earth.

Trying to solve the problem of freewill by limiting the knowledge and power your supposed God will only create more problem for him.

Two explanation may help out

1. Such God does not exist. You are only trying to justify his existence using your rational mind

2. He exist but doesn't care about us or our religion.

To start with, I so much wished you considered the practical and gave answers to those questions.. Trust me, we would have grounded everything there.

Secondly, the only thing that limits God is his nature.
(If I had said it this way, you would not have understood what I meant)

About those questions you asked, can you please summarize them after you give an answer to my experimental questions.. Just one answer will solve the puzzle as all your questions are related.

Be not quick to draw conclusions, there is much more to know about this entity!

Consider that experiment please, so much depends on it.

Blabbermouth:
When He said he created man in his own image, what do you think he meant?
(Howbeit, there is still a lot on this that you need to know)


According to you, what you did can be referred to as "orchestrating some series of events that will go on to constitute the future"....
How is this possible?
Answer: You had a free will and the capability to do such to anything you have perfect control (or say, authority) over. By controlling (or say, manipulating) things like (1) your phone (2) your shirt (3) yourself , you were able to orchestrate series of events that went on to constitute the future.
I'm glad you pointed out the possibility that your phone button might suddenly misbehave. So, the phone wouldn't have switched off just as you planned.
A case like this will only happen if you actually do not have TOTAL CONTROL over a thing or an event (as in the case of your phone, you never had the total control to make it power off)...

All you just did above, God can do it! However, in a far far far far far larger larger larger larger (× infinity) scale than you did yours.
Unlike you, God will/cannot lose control. Unlike you, them no born the phone well make e say e no go off, if that supreme being command it to off.

(When God does things in this manner, humans not being able to comprehend what he did will quickly conclude he went to watch the movie called "the future" and was now narrating it to us.

Now, you are getting to know this supreme being more...

Xmuslim, this one is actually for you. Please read it and tell me what you think.

etrange:
Thank you for this scenario. It actually sheds more light on my question above. (I assume this scenario does not make any distinction between man and the supreme being cause that would only make it useless).

When He said he created man in his own image, what do you think he meant?
(Howbeit, there is still a lot on this that you need to know)

etrange:
In response, I would say I orchestrated the series of events that would go on to constitute the future. I understand that bit. But even in the scenario above, there was a possibility of my phone button malfunctioning and I not being able to eventually put it. This implies that while I might have willed for all these to happen, anything could really be an impedance, anything I didn't forsee because I can't tell the "non existen" future.

According to you, what you did can be referred to as "orchestrating some series of events that will go on to constitute the future"....
How is this possible?
Answer: You had a free will and the capability to do such to anything you have perfect control (or say, authority) over. By controlling (or say, manipulating) things like (1) your phone (2) your shirt (3) yourself , you were able to orchestrate series of events that went on to constitute the future.
I'm glad you pointed out the possibility that your phone button might suddenly misbehave. So, the phone wouldn't have switched off just as you planned.
A case like this will only happen if you actually do not have TOTAL CONTROL over a thing or an event (as in the case of your phone, you never had the total control to make it power off)...

All you just did above, God can do it! However, in a far far far far far larger larger larger larger (× infinity) scale than you did yours.
Unlike you, God will/cannot lose control. Unlike you, them no born the phone well make e say e no go off, if that supreme being command it to off.

(When God does things in this manner, humans not being able to comprehend what he did will quickly conclude he went to watch the movie called "the future" and was now narrating it to us.

Now, you are getting to know this supreme being more...

Blabbermouth:
Do this simple practical...
Look at the time now (it's about 8:10pm), now tell someone in the room that the following would have happened about 8:12pm
1. Your phone will be switched off
2. You will be in the other room
3. You won't be putting on any shirt

Tell the person to check the time and confirm that everything happened two minute later just as you said two minute ago.

(While the person is doing the countdown, switch off your phone, off your shirt and move to another room)
So, by 8:12pm, everything should be just as you said 2 minutes ago.

What did you just do?
Is that you knowing the future?
Is that you reading the future script?

etrange, this is the practical.

etrange:
Yes sir, we are. You are saying that because what will happen has not happened, the supreme being, as understood by man, cannot know or tell it (just like we humans can't). And the conclusion is that he does not know the future (as your number 5 indicates). That is fine. Like I said, for whatever reason, acknowledging he doesn't know the what will happen seems more practical and nearer to reality (as against an image of him most people would like to paint).

Now working on the clear premise of the supreme being, as understood by man, not knowing what will happen, can we use this as a seed to clarify some other areas? Let's take a step further to reconcile this bit of knowledge with the idea that only his will will come to pass. Do you agree with that? With what level of certainty can we say only his will will happen seeing that he, himself, doesn't also know what will happen? And does it mean that it is his will that some men (if not all) will perish?

Thanks for your time.

So that we don't end up getting confused, let us establish something very important about this supreme being.
We will do that with a very simple practical...

Xmuslim:
I don't even know if there is an entity called God. I only use the term based on people's definition. For instance Muslim God's attributes is different from yours.

So, I don't know answer to that question. All I have heard from you is that God does not know the future

Alright.
Have you considered that practical experiment?

Xmuslim:
you may go ahead and explain. We are learning

Do this simple practical...
Look at the time now (it's about 5:10pm), now tell someone in the room that the following would have happened about 5:12pm
1. Your phone will be switched off
2. You will be in the other room
3. You won't be putting on any shirt

Tell the person to check the time and confirm that everything happened two minute later just as you said two minute ago.

(While the person is doing the countdown, switch off your phone, off your shirt and move to another room)
So, by 5:12pm, everything should be just as you said 2 minutes ago.

What did you just do?
Is that you knowing the future?
Is that you reading the future script?

Xmuslim:
What is the interval between the time of action and when God knows about such action.

Does God only know stuffs after they had already happened successfully? Or he knows them few minutes or seconds before the event

Smiles... You know the answer to this yourself.

Xmuslim:
no.

OK let me give you example. Does God know what will happen on the judgement day?(as claimed by the believers).

Does God know if jesus will be killed on his second coming?

There is a very important thing about God that I would have loved to explain with a practical... It would have answered many of your other questions.

Xmuslim:
you claimed God knows what we think. Does he know if we will eventually act on those things. I may think I will eat breakfast tommorow, but may oversleep and skip it

In Torah (i meant old testament), Satan only conceived the plan and God judged him straight up!
God himself said he is more concerned about the heart than the action.
Jesus buttressed it when he said "the moment you lust in your heart, you have already fornicated"...

Xmuslim:
You are right to some extent and this is one of the weakness of Islam.

But what do you think of their excuse? That God didn't force them to do those things, he only knew those things in advance. They (Muslims) claim that God gave them freewill and will punish humans based on the freewil.

No bias please.

If you watch vampire movies (or legend of the seeker), you will realize that it is the same as "compelling"...
Since he knew them, freewill/no freewill they are compelled to play along.
If such is the case, then there is no need for judgement. Only beings that have freewill are judged, playing a role assigned by a deity is nothing close to free will.

Xmuslim:
is there anything that hasn't happened that God knows exactly how it will happen

Let us do a bit of practical...
Is there someone in the room with you?

Xmuslim:
It's easy to understand though. Consider a movie you have watched. If watching it second time, won't you know what will happen before it happens? Do you force it to happen. Let me know what you think?

Even Einstein made that error. He said he does not believe in a god that plays dice with the universe..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If everything was a movie, then God is actually playing dice with the universe. Infact, your eternal abode (heaven or hell) has been determined before you were born. That means you are actually a robot, a programmed actor, made to play a role in a movie and then punished because he played the role just as he was instructed..
This unscriptural and illogical reasoning has reinforced the stance for atheism and agnosticism.

Xmuslim:
Let me ask you this. Are there some specific future that your god knows?

Explain your question please... So I don't end up misinterpreting you.

Xmuslim:
OK bro. I will look more into this. I will try and study more about this issue.

Nevertheless, even if your NO Future statement is true, it does not solve the problem of your religion. There are still thousands of things that are not right with Christianity.

However, good thing about atheist and agnostics is that we tend to accept the truth if we find sufficient evidence, unlike you guys that already concluded that you know the TRUTH.

"There are still thousands of things that are not right with Christianity" things like?

Xmuslim:
I didn't dodge the question. From Islamic perspective, God wrote the future. However, he wrote it based on his knowledge of what will happen, not that he forced the event to happen. (note that there are some other stuff in Islam that may contradict this. I'm not here to defend Islam).

Regarding reasoning like a believer. I have two personalities already. I was a believer, so it's easy for me to reason like a believer. It does not mean I still believe in those stuff. I only know them. A Christian may study Islam and use it to preach against Islam.

"Based on the knowledge of what will happen, not that he forced the event to happen"
If I were a Muslim and I saw this, I will need a rehab. That statement painted the being as a sage with good prediction accuracy.

If you believe the future exist, please go back to your imam and reboot your life as a Muslim.
(The writer of the future is more than worthy of your worship)

Xmuslim:
Also, before the emergence of our universe, time probably didn't exist. If TRUE, then in the absence of TIME, there is no past, and no future. Everything is happening in the PRESENT in such being's sight. Remember, time is the reason why we have past and future.

But, If time has being existing infinitely, it means your God must have a beginning. There must be a time in the past when there was no Christian god. This will create infinite regression problem.

Still, your religious mind is playing tricks on you....
Nothing like "future".

Xmuslim:
Even though I'm no longer a believer, I think a God that regret his action is too weak. A god that doesn't know what will happen tomorrow is too weak to be a god. I think Muslim god will overpower your god if they are to fight each other.

Talking about non-existencr of the future. A simple question please. Is the statement below correct?

Anyone with good education have a potential of becoming the president of this country in the future.
If it is correct, it means future exist. The only thing preventing us from knowing future events is TIME. If your God does not know the future, that means he's bound by time and he cannot boast that he will last forever, since he doesn't know the future.

This will take you weeks to fully comprehend (yes, it took me days, I was struggling against the truth, trying to defend what I previously believed)

The big ? Is not in God if God knows the future.
The big ? Is
"If a future exist, who wrote the future?"
I see you've been dodging this question since...

The statement you asked for it's validity has that "IF" clause... Just like every other event that is yet to happen.
("It is likely" does not mean it will happen)

By the way, you still reasoning like a typical believer though.