₦airaland Forum

sonmvayina:
LOL.. You are smarter than that, start from verse 1 of chapter 7..the sign was for king Ahaz, the woman in question was Isaiah wife.. Isaiah impregnated her.. The son was an assurance for king Ahaz that the two kings plotting to kill him will not succeed because God was with him..

Lol... Come on here, you have the Scripture of Isaiah with you.
Isaiah 7:13 "And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David....."
Read in-between the lines and realize that Isaiah wasn't talking specifically to Ahaz but to the Whole Congregation of Israel.
LMAO... You yourself said "Isaiah impregnated her", shock me , was there IVF or some artificial insemination process then? How can Isaiah impregnate her and she still remained a virgin?
For further reference read the succeeding 2 verses and see what kind of child the so-prophecied Immanuel will be.

sonmvayina:
Come on, you are smarter than that.. Who was Moses addressing.. Was it not people in front of him.. After he left, God raised Joshua for them..

Context is key..

Come on, you are smarter than this... After Joshua, were there other prophets? Yes! Many, many, many, many, many, many, prophets....
Amidst these seas of Prophet, the scripture was only referring to Just 1!
If it were Joshua, then there won't be need for a prophet after him.
Context + Truth is key...

Isaiah 7:14
"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel"
From these scripture, it is also meet that the Chosen one MUST be born of a Virgin.

Also, from other Scriptures that have been cited already from some contributors in this post,
"The Messiah must come from the Line of King David"...
Now, here is the first question;
If the scripture is true and cannot be broken, how can a man be born of a Virgin and also at the same time come from the bloodline of King David through his Father (as sonmvayina said, Genealogy is from fatherhood)?"

Moses the mediator of the old testament, for prophecy and through hearsay from God himself said to the children of Israel, " I (God) will raise up unto you a prophet from among you, of your brothers, like unto me, I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto you all that I command him and it is him you will listen to.
It shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him." - Deut 18:15, 18
This was the first instance in the old testament where the Christ/Messiah was plainly prophesied of....
The first and one of the principal criteria was for the Ha Maschiach to be "A Prophet"!
Down the Scriptures (of Deut 18), it says
"21. If you say in your heart, how shall we know the word which the LORD have not spoken?
22. When a prophet speaks in my name, if the thing follows not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet has spoken it presumptuously: you shall not be afraid of him."
That verse gave us a reliable yardstick for checking if a prophet really is of/from God or not.

Summary: The Chosen one/Messiah must be a Prophet.
On the Keys...

sonmvayina:
Like I said, the Jewish prophets wrote about the Messiah, that God was sending to redeem them. When the jews speak of salvation it is always from physical danger..
As per the problem of sin, God already provided a solution in 2nd chronicle 7:14.
Concerning the Messiah, this is what is believed.
J-s Was Not Messiah, He Did Not Fulfill Any Prophecies
* The Messiah must be from the Tribe of Judah and a Descendant of King David AND King Solomon, not Jeconiah, through his human biological father. Genesis 49:10, 2 Samuel 7:12-14; 1 Chronicles 17:11-14, 22:9-10, 28:4-6; Jeremiah 23:5, 33:17; Jeremiah 22:30, 36:30, Psalm 89:35-37. Genealogy in the Bible is only passed down from father to son Numbers 1:1-18.

J-s didn't have this genealogy, he didn't have a birth father from the Tribe of Judah, in the line from King David and Solomon, not Jeconiah. He had a virgin birth according to Matthew and Luke. And even if he didn't have virgin birth neither genealogy in Matthew 1 or Luke 3 can produce a King to be the Messiah. In Luke 3 the genealogy doesn't go through Solomon as required and in Matthew 1 the genealogy is rejected because it goes though Jeconiah.
II Samuel 7:12-14, I Chronicles 17:11-14, 22:9-10, 28:4-6, Jeremiah 22:30,36:30.

* When Messiah is reigning as King the Jews will be ingathered from their exile and will return to Israel Deut. 30:3; Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 30:3, 32:37; Ezekiel 11:17, 36:24. This didn't happen, the Jews were dispersed widely after the death of J-s.

* When Messiah comes the Temple in Jerusalem will be rebuilt and sin sacrifices will be fully instituted Isaiah 2:2-3, 56:6-7, 60:7, 66:20; Ezekiel 37:26-27, 45:17-46:16; Malachi 3:4; Zech. 14:20-21. The Temple was destroyed after the death of J-s.
3
* When Messiah comes there will be Worldwide Reign of Peace and complete end to war Micah 4:1-4; Hoseah 2:20; Isaiah 2:1-4, 60:18. There are still wars upon wars.

* When Messiah is reigning as King all of the Jewish people will observe Torah Ezekiel 37:24; Deut. 30:8,10; Jeremiah 31:32; Ezekiel 11:19-20, 36:26-27. Everyone is not obeying Torah the world is filled with rebellion to the Most High.

* When Messiah comes all the people of the world will come to acknowledge and serve the one true Elohim Zechariah 3:9, 8:23,14:9,16; Isaiah 45:23, 66:23; Jeremiah 31:33; Ezekiel 38:23; Psalm 86:9; Zeph. 3:9.

* J-s didn't fulfill any prophecies about Messiah. He didn't have a human biological father in the royal kingly line, the Jews have not ingathered from their exile, the third Temple has not been rebuilt, there is not world wide peace, there is still war, all the Jewish people are not observing Torah and not all people are serving the Most High.

The above points I believe, are your criteria (as written in the Torah) which the Messiah that has been spoken of must meet up with, I will do with these...
Also, I will add more to it, as written to the old testament and see if the person of Jesus and His New testament is valid even under closer look and scrunity.

sonmvayina:
That would be circular reasoning.. You can't quote from the new testament to prove the new testament. The purpose of this thread is to find out if Jesus was ever God's plan and the New testament was necessary..

I am not quoting the new testament to prove the new testament, no! We are strictly building our discussion on the old testament... However it will be paramount to cross check if what we both come to terms with (as regarding the old testament) is consistent with the new.

Hey Sonmvayina, I really love this thread you created and the prospective purpose for it... Yea, I will like to engage you while rigidly staying put on the rail of the thread. Yeah, I buy your idea of coming from the old testament perspective but I should note you that I will (where necessary) cite scriptures in the new testament to show you that my points are consistent with the scriptures and the word of God.

I am strongly with 5 out of 6 from all your points, does that make me A Jehovah's witness or does it make me a true Christian?

sharrp:
I often see a lot of Christian or Muslim thread being spammed by atheist about the non existent of God. So how do you explain this .

My friend invited me to a church , now I have never complained anything to this my friend and my friend isn't even a bonafide member of this church . As a matter of fact we only attend this church on Tuesday and I am yet to attend a Sunday service there .

During my first day in the church , the pastor pointed me out , I can out and he described my issues for me almost as specific as I would know it. He called other first timers and described stuffs lik the kind of business you do , your name , the location he is seeing you in which 90% of the time turns out to be where the said person lives. Atheist how do you explain this , how does a man people haven't met before randomly knows vital private information about them .

Some call it the power of God, Others call it the gift of the spirit and many may refer to it as the ministry gift. Also, it might also be wrought by a wrong spirit. Whatever name you call it, it is real! If you don't mind, can I get the pastor's number

Kobojunkie:
I know of magicians and psychics here who can do that trick too. That does not mean your MOG there belongs to God since the Spirit of God does not dole out mind-reading abilities as part of the born again package. So take this thread down before they come mock you for not seeing the difference as a so-called Christian.

You know who?
Call them out please!!!!

RealEzee:
Zizou did it on a row, does pep know that feeling? Oops he can't relate

He won all Winnable trophies (Six!) In his first Year as a senior coach... That's a better feeling if you ask me.
Pep Guardiola is the Alexander The Great of Football...

Angelfrost:
You shouldn't start uttering this just yet... Barca might yet fare far worse tomorrow at Camp Nou.

After the night when I wake up, I will see what tomorrow brings.

The same Lyon Messi flogged black and blue.... Juve and mediocrity are like 5 and 6.
BeverlyJean over to you, what's your say about Ronaldo's performance and the team in general tonight?

Kobojunkie:
I read Revelations as a dream sequence, and since I have no gift of interpretations of dream, especially that of someone else, and I refuse to read LITERALLY from a dream sequence, I am not sure any of this is true.

You should follow from the Book of Daniel, some psalms and Book of Zechariah (Those two guys were given the interpretation of many of their dreams and visions. Fortunately, the dreams and visions also complement the ones John had. With those interpretations (already given), .. The book of revelations becomes plainer and a large chunk of it can be understood perfectly.

DappaD:
OK! Noted sir.

The existence of an eternal fire is consistent with the Word of God. Whether you chose to believe it or not, technically has no salvation value... But then, please learn to UNLEARN and RELEARN even if what you've relearned has contradicted the belief of your sect (as long as it is in line with Christ.
Peace!

Cc: Maximus69, Captainman, Chatinent, DappaD, kobojunkie, Daejoyoung, other JW's in the house, and fellow Christians....
When Christ Jesus said "Anywhere 2 (or more) are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them" , if perfectly understood and acknowledged, we would be having more of a fellowship discussion and not aimless arguments where everyone is trying hard to shove his/her own resolve down anyone's throat.
When we discuss, we kind of ignore Christ and move on to propagating whatever essence less doctrine we have - sadly, this is what immaturity actually is. How can you be arguing about things pertaining to Christ when Christ himself is present? How can I be arguing that Buhari is a Muslim when Buhari himself is present? Since Christ is here, why shouldn't we just ask him?
That being said, I will implore anyone reading this to sustain the humility to UNLEARN and RELEARN as long as whatever you are relearning is coming from the horse's mouth (from Christ himself). Even if its hard, you should come to realize that when push comes to shove, you belong to Christ Jesus and not some denomination or sect.
Alright, that being said, let us answer the question- IS HELLFIRE REAL?
When Christ Jesus was praying (John 17), he asked that whereever he is (in Glory), there should his servants be. Hey beloved, there is also a similar arrangement for the devil...
Matthew 25:41
"Then shall he say unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, you cursed INTO everlasting fire, PREPARED for the devil and his angels"
According to Christ, wherever the devil is (in torment), there shall his followers be... (Note this, we will reference it soon)
According to Christ, a place was/has been prepared for the devil and his angels.
Now the contention is, is the "Everlasting Fire" or say "Lake of fire" a location (I.e. a place) or a state (of total inexistence)?
Let's hear from Christ again
(About the second death)
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and Sorcerers and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the LAKE which BURNS WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE: which is the second death" -Rev 21:8
It's about to get interesting now, see what the after-verse says
"For without (I.e. Outside the gates) are dogs, and sorcerers and whoremongers, and murderers, idolaters and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie" -Rev 22:15
What does this tell us?
1. Those whose name is not written in the book of life will be outside the gates
2. (From the first verse), they will be with the devil and his angels
3. The Lake of Fire is a place!
Perhaps there are still fickles of contention, trying to believe that the fire still means "eternal cut-off" or a state of inexistence, let's use another verse to round this up...
PS: The Beast (Alias Antichrist) is a man! (2 Th 2:4-
Rev 19:20 - "And the beast (Antichrist) was taken, and with him the false prophet (also a man) that wrought miracles before him with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast and them that worshiped his image. These both were CAST ALIVE into a LAKE OF FIRE BURNING WITH BRIMSTONE"
Perhaps you rushed that scripture, go back and read in-between where it says - CAST ALIVE..... Here is a rhetorical question
Where were they Cast into? Hahahaha
Is the Lake of fire or ETERNAL FIRE a place (location) or a state of eternal inexistence...
If truly the scripture cannot be broken, if truly a line cannot both be straight and curved, then verily, the ETERNAL FIRE is a location and it is real!
Proof:
1. The Lake of Fire is a place (Rev 21:
2.Those cast into it were ALIVE (Rev 19:20)
PS: You can try explaining how a being can be alive and at the same time Nonexistent
3. The torture in the Lake is forever and ever (Rev 20:10)
PS: You can try explaining how a nonexistent being can be tortured.
4. 1,2,3 are confirmed by Christ!

PEACE!

DappaD:
Don't bother then.

The truth should be able to stand despite every kind of scrunity, what you claimed is different from what Jesus said. I take the Word as truth and not the resolve of others.

Daejoyoung:
Lol, So feelings and emotions are not part of the divine? then where does sympathy come from?
is anger part of the divine or human emotion also? the old testament God was sometimes very angry as well, sometimes he even showed compassion and compared himself to a mother.

who struck down great kings, His love endures forever.
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and killed mighty kings-- His love endures forever.
19
Sihon king of the Amorites His love endures forever.
20
and Og king of Bashan-- His love endures forever.
21
and gave their land as an inheritance, His love endures forever.
22
an inheritance to his servant Israel; His love endures forever.
23
to the One who remembered us in our low estate His love endures forever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Do you know who that verse was referring to? Guess! Hint: It's not Allah, It's not the Devil....
This same person also permitted the following
1. Dashing of babies against rocks
2. Devouring of Little children because they did something childish
3. Washed many in a mighty flood.
That person was the LORD GOD.
Go read my former reply to you and this time around, read in-between the lines, you will see where I said "Humanly feelings and emotions".....
God was killing kings and the psalmist still proclaimed it as love. Hey daejoyoung, frankly speaking, how does that look like love from a human perspective?
Do not find it hard to UNLEARN and RELEARN - A divine being will not have the same humanly emotions and feelings as human. So when you resurrect, you ressurect with another body that is not subjected to this worldly feelings and emotions, no! Just as the body, your feelings and emotions conform to that of Christ (yea, more like Divine!)

DappaD:
Coming back to the topic on ground, the ‘lake of fire’ in Revelation symbolizes the ‘second death’ – a death from which there can be no resurrection(Revelation 21:8 )
When humans die today, we can call that the ‘first death’ because there is a chance of them being resurrected. But as for the ‘second death’, it means no hope of resurrection — all memory of them is completely wiped out from history (Psalm 9:5, Proverbs 10:7)

Unfortunately sir, this is not consistent with the WORD OF GOD. I'm satisfied with Kobojunkie's comments (it was consistent with the word of God) , but then, I will drop a write up to clear the air on all this.

DappaD:
Who told you I can't give you an answer about the resurrection from the Scriptures?
That isn't the topic of this thread so I've decided not to answer you on that.

So please answer my question that's related to the topic of this thread


I wonder what makes you think I can't reply your questions.
Just answer mine let's move on. Thanks

Smiles... Alright, school me.

DappaD:
Until my second question is answered, you can continue in your folly.

Peace.

Do you derive joy in arguing? Perhaps, in your mind, you are talking to an unlearned Christian that doesn't know anything about the bible. I've seen you chicken out of threads using this same scope, almost like you don't want to concede defeat.
Whenever I'm discussing with a Christian, I don't allow my belief to cloud my discernment of truth, please do emulate that too.

Okay, I know nothing about the second death. Will you school me please?

Who are those going to be resurrected? Who are those going to be judged?
Any witness in the house...

DappaD:
There is no need to rigmarole. Just say you don't know and leave these your big big talks.

You asked me 3questions and I answered all 3 without hesitation.
Now ordinary two questions I've asked you, you're all about the place talking about doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Call me robot, zombie, I agree I am all of those. But it still doesn't affect my questions.
This is the second part of my earlier questions.



Please give an answer let's move on. Thanks.

This your primary school scope will not work. You are very uncomfortable when someone asks you a question, as it shoves you to the wall.
In claiming that Adam and Eve went to the dust, you sounded like that's the end. Hahahahahahaha .... Now I asked you (first!), who will be resurrected?
You decided to play hide and seek just like you did in the other thread.
I am not one to argue, I go for essence only, yea sir, Essence only!
The goal here is to enlighten us on the existence of hell fire and not to give you some bible lessons that will take us nowhere.

Dear Jehovah's Witnesses...
Who are those that will be resurrected?
Hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha Hahahahahahaha
Them be so quick to quote Gen3:19, so they should also be quick to answer the question.

Maximus69:
Fuel has finished in his tank nah!

After all his Churchgoer Pastor's mindset he now quote God's word that man returned to dust!

Hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha Hahahahahahaha haha....
You will soon realize he is leading himself to a dead end.
(Fuel finished in my tank? No! I was busy sorting things out here so I couldn't give him a long reply)

DappaD:
Which brings us to my second question.


You see how I ask my questions logically? So with the first question we've debunked the lies about the existence of ghosts and the place humans go where they die — as well as the forged hellfire doctrine.

Another question just sprung up.
Are you saying that Adam and Eve haven't been judged yet?
Let's see your knowledge on the Scriptures.

Jehovah's witnesses talk like robots... I've heard what you are saying, many times, many places and again and again and again.
If the Lord wills, I will enlighten you completely after you've tendered your doctrine completely.
You are the ones that rush to open Gen 3:19 yet you still claim that all of mankind will be resurrected.
Oga, hope you know that you've not answered my questions yet?

Daejoyoung:
Blabbermouth, let's assume your mother is muslim, but a very liberal muslim loved by all because she is very nice. She does so much good and have even established so many orphanage homes and stuff like that.
You love your mum so much, and everyday you preach jesus to her telling her to accept jesus as lord and saviour, but she didn't.

On the last day would God admit her to heaven or hell? considering that everyone must accept jesus as lord and saviour to get to heaven according to the evangelists and the likes of Righteousness89? If she goes to hell, how comfortable would you be in your heaven?

Very comfortable!
Again, SALVATION IS IN JESUS ALONE!
You cannot redeem yourself with your blood (That is the most foolish doctrine widely accepted today).
It would interest you to know that we will not remain in Heaven eternally, we will be in the new earth forever. Also, when Jesus died, he died with a terrestrial body, however when he resurrected, he ressurected with a CELESTIAL BODY.
This new and glorious body does not have Blood. This new and glorious body does not have any tendency to Sin. This new and glorious body isn't moved by that thing you call "Feelings" and "emotions "...
Go and read the book of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John (the account of Jesus' earthly ministry till he died) and compare it with Jesus in the book of Revelation (Jesus with Celestial body and in heaven)...
He was sounding more like the old testament LORD YHWH ...
We are going to be changed from mere mortals to Divine beings, don't expect humanly feelings and emotions to be part of the divine package.

DappaD:
Lol. Okay. Tell OP to change the topic name to ‘Is Resurrection Real?’ and we can talk about it.
Til then, as long as this topic concerns ‘Hellfire’ we're going to be discussing about the lies behind the mythical hellfire.

Typical.
I've never met any Christian that says "Hell fire is where you go when you die"... No! It's actually " Hellfire is where you go after you've been judged and you are found wanting"
Do you now see the foolishness of using Gen3:19 as a soft landing?

jornwhite:
As an adult, with all the things i have seen & done ... i don't see any big deal in adults have sex under the duvet its not as if we saw anything concrete #no nude, i rather watch ghana movies

Lee ma o (in Broad shaggi's voice)

DappaD:
Resurrection is another topic entirely. The topic of this thread is about the fallacious nature of hellfire.

This is my question.
[b][/b]

Since the Bible reveals Adam and Eve went to the dust. Was God now lying that they went somewhere else?

No! Do not shadow box please. You can't talk about hellfire and not talk about resurrection.

jornwhite:
I think you are the biggest fool here, judging everyone except yourselve ... maybe you should take a closer look @the contestants , even if your net worth can buy all of them, they are youths doing fine before BBN, and i doubt if you have been to the countries most of them av visited.
Lets speak of hustle, i don't see a riff raff on the show, travelling around d world & studying abroad is certainly for the rich ... entertainment has genre not all must be educative, men sit for hours to watch ball, weytin we learn.
If you are not richer than the richest contestant on that show oga na you fool pass.

I have no beef with any of the contestants except the mother of three fornicating on live TV.

DappaD:
Are you ready to be serious or not? Why the unnecessary laughter?

Good. They're in the dust.
So how did the hellfire doctrine now come about? Since it's obvious people return to dust when they die.

Did you not say they will be resurrected?