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 Christianity Etc › Re: Deliverance From Immorality, Pornography & Masturbation by blueAgent(m): 7:07am On Jul 22, 2017 |
isidiwent:Have you tried this principles before do they work? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 7:01am On Jul 22, 2017 |
easymancfc:I never said the Saints were in Heaven. the Bible did not mention how the Elders got possession of the prayers ,it could be Heavenly protocol. what is clear is that we are to pray to God through Jesus only. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 6:57am On Jul 22, 2017 |
easymancfc:The soul does not live forever.only God has immortality.click here to read with proofs. https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4988/t/is-the-devil-in-charge-of-hell- |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 6:55am On Jul 22, 2017 |
Tampinu:Its obvious you are fusing Afrocentrism with religeon. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 6:46am On Jul 22, 2017 |
Tampinu:You are confused. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: 10 Attributes Of Atheists by blueAgent(op): 6:21am On Jul 22, 2017 |
Humanistme:Your Sikhism is still no match for christainity.a religeon of less than 600yrs with no supreme authority on its doctrines,books and prophecies. Are there prophecies in Sikhism religeon that have come to past like the ones of the Bible? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: 10 Attributes Of Atheists by blueAgent(op): 6:15am On Jul 22, 2017 |
LightandDarkness:In your dream. It is obvious you Atheists will accept any other religeon other than christainity. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 9:42am On Jul 20, 2017 |
easymancfc:Can you refute those bible verses or give alternative explanation for those bible verses? I know it is your first time of coming across this Bible verses. Like i said before it is not about Church or personal idea but about what God and his word says. on judgement day their will be no Adventist or Catholic, just you and your maker. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: 10 Attributes Of Atheists by blueAgent(op): 9:34am On Jul 20, 2017 |
Tellemall:True Bro. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: 10 Attributes Of Atheists by blueAgent(op): 9:32am On Jul 20, 2017 |
Humanistme:Really? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 9:13pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
Tampinu:so what are you insinuating? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 8:43pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
easymancfc:"Two men, Moses and Elijah, appeared in glorious splendor, talking with Jesus. They spoke about his departure, which he was about to bring to fulfillment at Jerusalem. "(Luke 9:30-31) The appearance of Elijah and Moses represented Jesus' fulfillment of the Law (Moses) and the Prophets (Elijah). Jesus had said that God was the God of the living, not the dead, and to Him, all are alive. (Luke 20:37-38) The Transfiguration showed that God's servants are alive in His presence in glory. The Transfiguration was to show Christ' glory (see 2 Peter 1:17-18), not to teach us that we can pray to the saints. It is interesting however, that Elijah and Moses are never called "saints" per se in Roman Catholic teaching. You don't hear of St.Moses or prayers offered to him! The Protestant charge that the saints cannot hear our prayers because they are not omnipresent and infinite like God is a valid one. How can Mary and the saints hear all the prayers around the world. Only God can do this because He is omniscient and omnipresent. Are the saints as finite beings omnipresent, omniscient? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 8:35pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
[quote author=easymancfc post=58590167].I already answered that before.. but in case you didnt see it... Bro you need to study your Bible more... The Elders are humans and theBible only tells of 2 people who never died but were taken up to heaven... Enoch (gen 5:24) and Elijah (2 kings 2:12)..The Word Elder comes from the greek word "presbyteros" which is found 67 times in the New testament first for the leaders of the synagogue ( mat 15:2, 21:23, mark 11:27, 14:53 etc) and for the apostles and those they ordained ( acts 11:30, 14:23, 1 peter 5:1, 2 jn 1:1, 3 jn 1:1)Now take note JOHN IS HAVING A VISION OF HEAVEN AND WE ARE ONLY AWARE OF TWO PEOPLE WHO WENT TO HEAVEN WITHOUT DEATH.... AND SO THESE ELDERS MUST HAVE DIED AND RECEIVED THE CROWN OF GLORY....ON HEBREWS 12:1, YES THEY ARE DEAD BECAUSE HEBREWS 11 WAS TALKING ABOUT OUR EXAMPLES OF FAITH, FROM ABRAHAM TO MOSES TO RAHAB ETC... ALL OF WHOM ARE DEAD... AND SINCE THEY ARE BIBLICAL EXAMPLES OF FAITH THEN THEY ARE "SAINTS" since the bible is infallible and inerrant...take Hebrews 12:1 is a continuations of Hebrews 11 and in the original manuscripts there was not chapter and verse, that was done in Revelation 5:11 Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. 1) The heavenly tabernacle was the pattern for the earthly. Therefore the 24 elders, who are a priestly class of angels, were the pattern for the Levitical rotation of priests. 2) Angels wear white garments and crowns symbolize authority and position. 3) Each heavenly particular of John's vision -- the throne, four living creatures, and millions of angels are interpreted as literal. Therefore, there is no biblical precept for spiritualizing the 24 elders as anything but 24 elders. Around God's throne are four cherubim, twenty-four elders, and one hundred million angels. The twenty-four elders of Revelation are a priestly order of angels which served as a pattern for the priestly rotation who ministered in Solomon's Temple. Exodus 25:17-19. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 8:27pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
easymancfc:"And when he [the Lamb-Christ] had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." In this passage both the 4 living creatures and 24 elders bow before the Lamb and hold the bowls of incense. Where does it say they are saints? The 4 living creatures are presumably cherubim based on Ezekiel 1, but cherubim are not saints, they are heavenly beings. The 24 elders are not defined and have been a topic of various interpretations among scholars and theologians. They may represent the people of God through the ages, but we are not sure. However, one thing is certain, they are not the object of prayer. Throughout the book of Revelation, it is God and the Lamb (Jesus Christ) who are always the focal point of worship, honour and praise. The book of Revelation again is filled with apocalyptic language and is highly symbolic. There are saints in heaven to be sure (Hebrews 12:22-24), but nowhere are we told that they hear our prayers and intercede for us. Hebrews 12:22-24 seeks to show that the Church exists on two levels, the heavenly and earthly level, the Church is both in heaven and earth. Those who seek to prove that saints can be addressed in prayer are clearly reading into the text of Rev.5:8 what is not there. Nowhere does it say that the 24 elders are saints, but rather that they offer up the prayers of the saints to God perhaps as representatives. Even angels perform the same duty of offering up the prayers of the saints (Revelation 8:3-4), but that does not mean they are redeemed saints. ALL who are in Christ Jesus are "saints" (1 Corinthians 1:2), they do not need to go through a process of canonization as Rome has it today. Thus, the saints exist on 2 planes, heavenly (those who have died) and earthly (those who are still alive on earth). |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 8:21pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
easymancfc:As usual with your half understood Bible verses. The Soul can be used in place of life. The Bible says that the soul can work, crave food, eat, obey laws, and touch a dead body. ( Leviticus 5:2; 7:20; 23:30; Deuteronomy 12:20; Romans 13:1) Those activities involve the entire person. Is the soul immortal? No, the soul can die. Dozens of Bible verses refer to the soul as being mortal. Here are some examples: “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”—Ezekiel 18:4, 20, King James Version. In ancient Israel, the punishment for the most serious offenses was that the “soul shall be cut off.” ( Exodus 12:15, 19; Leviticus 7:20, 21, 27; 19:8, King James Version) The person would “be put to death.”—Exodus 31:14, King James Version. After a person dies, the literal term “dead soul” is used for the corpse in some Bible verses. ( Leviticus 21:11, footnote; Numbers 6:6, footnote) Although many Bible translations use the terms “dead body” or “dead person” in those verses, the original Hebrew uses the word neʹphesh, or “soul.” “Soul” can mean “life” The Bible also uses “soul” as a synonym for “life.” For example, Job 33:22 uses the Hebrew word for “soul” (neʹphesh) as a parallel for “life.” Similarly, the Bible shows that a person’s soul, or life, can be risked or lost.— Exodus 4:19; Judges 9:17; Philippians 2:30. This use of the word for “soul” helps us to understand verses in which the soul is said to be “going out” or “departing.” ( Genesis 35:18; King James Version) This figure of speech indicates that the person’s life is ending. Some translations render this expression at Genesis 35:18 as “she breathed her last.”—Good News Translation; New Jerusalem Bible. Where belief in an immortal soul comes from Christian denominations that believe in an immortal soul get this teaching, not from the Bible, but from ancient Greek philosophy. The Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Biblical references to the soul are related to the concept of breath and establish no distinction between the ethereal soul and the corporeal body. Christian concepts of a body-soul dichotomy originated with the ancient Greeks.” God does not condone merging his teachings with human philosophies, such as belief in an immortal soul. Instead, the Bible warns: “Look out that no one takes you captive by means of the philosophy and empty deception according to human tradition.”— Colossians 2:8 |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 8:16pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
easymancfc:The word "soul" can mean anything other than a living being? it can also mean (1) life itself, or (2) the mind, or intellect. No matter which meaning is intended, the soul is still a combination of two things (body and breath), and it ceases to exist at death. Mattew10:28. The last half of the same verse proves that souls do die. It says, "But rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." The word "soul" here means life and refers to eternal life, which is a gift (Romans 6:23) that will be given to the righteous at the last day (John 6:54). No one can take away the eternal life that God bestows. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 4:16pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
Tampinu:If i can see it written in the Bible i will accept it. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 4:15pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
Tampinu:Africans? are you sure. Africans who are still struggling with Diabolism and witch craft. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 4:11pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
Tampinu:Same Heresy. This book is more occultic than Bibilcal, trust me i know one when i see it, from experience |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 4:10pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
easymancfc:Show me a Bible verse that shows that the Elders where dead Saints. I don't lose the argument, so far none of you guys have been able to give me a bible verse that shows that dead Saints are in Heaven. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 4:07pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
easymancfc:Man does not have a Soul but man himself is a living Soul. The psalmist describes death in these words, “Thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created” (Psalm 104:29, 30). Here the order is reversed, and their breath returns to God at death. Solomon said the spirit returns. Here God gives the spirit to create, but Genesis says He gave the breath to create. It only makes sense when we understand that the two words are used interchangeably and mean the same thing. Please take note that this “spirit of life” is not necessarily the same as the Holy Spirit, neither is the “breath of life” the same as the regular air we breathe. This breath or spirit is the special, life- giving power of God which makes the body a functioning organism. Read Genesis 2:7 again, and try to visualize the act of creation. “And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground.” We have no difficulty with this. We can see that dead body, perfectly formed and containing the very elements necessary for life. But there was no life. The heart wasn’t beating. The blood was there, but it wasn’t flowing. The brain was there, but it wasn’t thinking. Then God added one more thing to the body He had made. He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7). Do not miss the significance of these words—they are often misconstrued. God did not put a soul into the body. He added only one thing—breath or spirit. Then, as a result of the body and breath uniting, man BECAME a soul. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 4:04pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
easymancfc:Jesus assured the people of His day, “...thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just” (Luke 14:14). Again, He said, “For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works” (Matthew 16:27). There is no equivocation here. In simple, direct language Jesus declared that no one would be rewarded until the resurrection takes place at His second coming. This means that none of the righteous dead have gone to heaven so far. All are waiting in their graves for the judgment and the end of the world. Almost the last words of the Bible confirm this fact. “And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his works shall be” (Revelation 22:12). This last-day reward is further described by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:53, “... and this mortal must put on immortality.” When does it happen? “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump” (Verse 52). This settles the issue about when the dead will be rewarded . |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 4:02pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
easymancfc:Again we read, “For the grave cannot praise thee, death cannot celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day” (Isaiah 38:18, 19). Would not the righteous dead praise God if they were ushered into heaven at their death? David repeats the same timeless truth, “The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence” (Psalm 115:17). “For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?” (Psalm 6:5). Do the Dead Ever Return? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 4:00pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
easymancfc:Which lies. my links contain facts backed by Bible verses. It is obvious you don't know your church's identity. Let me give you some bible facts on the state of the dead. Punishment & Rewards in the Resurrection Consider how confusing it would be if rewards and punishments are now being applied. What purpose would be served by a resurrection? Why even have a resurrection? Obviously each soul would already have a determined fate, and the farce of some make-believe final judgment would be totally meaningless. All the pious assurances heard at funerals about loved ones in heaven are simply repetitions of Satan’s first lie to the human family. The portrayal of imaginary, immaterial souls flying away from the body at death is not a source of comfort to grieving relatives. Paul described the time when the righteous dead will be with the Lord in 1 Thessalonians 4: 16-18, and concluded with these words, “Wherefore comfort one another with these words.” Here is a perfect, inspired picture of true comfort, and we need to understand clearly what word Paul was referring to that would bring such comfort. The two previous verses give us the words, “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” Paul here describes without any limitation the way and means by which we go to be with the Lord. Don’t overlook the word “so” in his statement. It means “in this way.” By that little word Paul precluded every other way of being with the Lord. When he described the coming of Jesus and the resurrection of the saints as being the manner and means of being with the Lord, he automatically excluded all other means of doing it. Then he admonishes us to “comfort one another with these words.” I repeat that there can be no comfort in the pseudo-Christian concept that some invisible, intangible entity leaves the body at death to be punished or rewarded. Is it reassuring to believe that unsaved relatives are suffering the torment of unquenchable fire? Is there solace in the picture of loved ones looking down from heaven upon the heart-breaking circumstances of those left behind? No wonder Paul was so specific in describing the second advent of Jesus and resurrection as the only way anyone can be with the Lord after death and, incidentally, as the only way to be comforted at their departure. Paul’s magnificent declaration points up the glorious fact that death and the grave are not the end. There will be an awakening from the sleep of death. The righteous will receive the gift of immortality, but it will all happen “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality” (1 Corinthians 15:52, 53). Jesus said, “Marvel not at this, for the hour is coming in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation” (John 5:28, 29). All the dead |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 3:58pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
easymancfc:Which lies. my links contain facts backed by Bible verses. It is obvious you don't know your church's identity. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 3:56pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
easymancfc: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 9:58pm On Jul 17, 2017 |
easymancfc:Your logic does not hold.elders are not dead saints period stop fabricating ideas to suit your church doctrines. Your links will be Bleep and madeup of lies, they cannot stand Bible scrutiny. So where does the bible state or support the idea of purgartory? Since you know after death is Judgement? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 9:50pm On Jul 17, 2017 |
easymancfc:Show me proof that Catholic was setup by the Apostles. You are not sincere about knowing the truth, if not you could have read those articles on the links i sent to you. I guess you are afraid to discover the truth. your church is the mystery Babaylon. why not google it. don't be naive open your eyes what makes you intelligent is not what you are taught but what you learn and discover for yourself. The bible talks about babylon in the book of revelation, that will change time and laws. this your Church has done and it acknowledge's it. What more proof. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 3:21pm On Jul 15, 2017 |
easymancfc:Your response is laughable. Story telling. Jesus said when two or more are gathered in his name his is their with them. All this excuse of Apostolic authority is crap |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 3:16pm On Jul 15, 2017 |
Ubenedictus:Anything that contradicts God's character and law is not acceptable the Bible says in Isaiah 8:20 ,To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. So you see anything that does not agree with God's character and word is bullshit. Mary been called blessed does not give you the authority worship and pray to her. On Purgatory the bible says after death is judgement their is no probation in death. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation” (John 5:28, 29).there is no repentance or work in the grave. Again we read, “For the grave cannot praise thee, death cannot celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day” (Isaiah 38:18, 19). Would not the righteous dead praise God if they were ushered into heaven at their death? David repeats the same timeless truth, “The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence” (Psalm 115:17). “For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?” (Psalm6:35) |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 3:07pm On Jul 15, 2017 |
easymancfc:The elders are not men who died neither are they saints stop decieving yourself. God can create elders for the purpose of worshipping him in Heaven.there is no Bible verse that thats us who the elders are. If you know you are unbaised and honestly seek the truth click this links and read. https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/48/t/spirits-of-the-dead https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/4/t/absent-from-the-body |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(op): 3:03pm On Jul 15, 2017 |
Ubenedictus:Jesus did not build his Church on peter find here the correct interpretation. WHAT JESUS REALLY MEANT So, was Jesus really building the Church on Peter (and his successors) in Matthew 16:18? Let’s look more closely at the verse. Understanding this passage in its original language, Greek, provides the key to understanding what Christ meant. Jesus used a wordplay that isn’t clear when read in English. First, Jesus used the word Petros when referring to Peter: “I also say to you that you are Peter [Petros].” He then used a similar-sounding word to describe what He was building His Church on: Petra. “And on this rock [petra] I will build My church.” So, Christ’s statement actually reads like this: “I also say to you that you are Petros, and on this petra I will build My Church. Peter’s given name was Simon Bar-Jonah, but Christ had given him the nickname Cephas—an Aramaic word meaning “A Stone” (John 1:42). Petros in Matthew 16:18 is the Greek form of the nickname. The meaning of both Cephas and Petros is the same: “a fragment, a stone” (Zondervan Expository Dictionary of Bible Words, pp. 537-538). The closest English words to petros would be pebble, stone or small rock. The second word Christ used was petra. This word also means rock, but it represents “a mass of rock” (ibid.). This word could be translated as boulder—an immovable mass. Had Christ intended to describe Peter, all He needed to say was: You are Peter and on you I will build My Church. But He didn’t say that. He distinguished the rock (petra) He was building the Church on from Peter (petros). The rock He was building His Church on was a rock big enough to serve as the chief cornerstone in the foundation; it was large, strong and immovable. This describes none other than Jesus Christ Himself! The rest of the Bible clearly identifies Jesus as this rock. Jesus is called “the chief cornerstone” seven times in the New Testament (Matthew 21:42; Mark 12:10; Luke 20:17; Acts 4:11; Ephesians 2:20; 1 Peter 2:6-7). In 1 Corinthians 10:4 the apostle Paul refers to Christ as “that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.” Jesus was not only the chief cornerstone, He is still the active “head of the body, the church” (Colossians 1:18; see also Ephesians 5:23). Christ did establish offices in His Church (Ephesians 4:11), but the Bible instructs those who hold offices of leadership to remain faithful to Christ’s teachings (1 Corinthians 11:1). Even Peter himself—far from claiming the authority some believe he was given—taught plainly that Christians “should follow His [Christ’s] steps” (1Peter 2:21). just click and read if you are really honest to know the truth. https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/48/t/spirits-of-the-dead https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/4/t/absent-from-the-body |
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