₦airaland Forum

@ Ricadelide

LOL . . . what do you want to do about Paul’s statements in Eph. 2:6?

Well, lets take a look at exactly what Paul said - 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

This text is talking about man's spiritual condition in this life. When we accept Christ we are quickened spiritually. We are born again. Even the part that says "sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" I take to mean, having that fellowship with Christ. Paul talks about having that ", peace that passes all understanding"

So as Christians we have already begun to enjoy a heavenly life although we are not yet there.

You (your spirit) were dead (verse 1). [Death here being a separation from the life of God rather than a dissolution of the entity. In other words, we still retained our spirits even though the bible calls it dead. But in the sense that the spirit has lost its ability to communicate with God and exude his life, then it was dead.] The same (dead) spirit was ‘made alive’ and then ‘raised up with Christ’. Even now, positionally, you’ve been raised up and are seated above all rule and authority.

Verse 1 is not referring to the physical death, but rather the spiritual condition in which we find ourselves.

Understanding the nature of man and the process of death, one would realize that death is merely the departure of the spirit of man FROM the body. This is very clear from scripture.

And in this thread I was the first to point that aspect of things out in scripture. But thanks for the reminder anyway.

The spirit does not cease to exist; it only ceases to remain in the body.

Well said, but I have already alluded to that in scripture.

There are many scriptures that show that spirits continue to exist and are self-aware subsequent to death. The story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 18:19, Jesus’ response to the Saduccees in Mark 12: 24-27 and so on.

I am not sure that that reference has anything to do with life after death as it relates to the exact topic.

The nature of man
In Paul’s writings, this same fact that the spirit of man is a distinct entity which is clearly conscious, perceptive and aware of its surroundings is also evident.

Phil. 1:22-24
If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.

This text is all about the assurance that Paul has in Christ, nothing more. Paul's ticket was already paid for by Christ. So the expression "to be with Christ" can be viewed in another way. It it not saying that Paul after his death is going to be active in heaven. It is not saying that Paul's spirit is going to be conscious in any form or fashion.

We see Paul saying “if I am to live IN the body”. What is the ‘I’ that is mentioned 6 times in 3 verses?

The "I" is referring to the person before death. That person or soul is a combination of both body and spirit. As long as Paul remained alive he could use the word "I"

The spirit or the inner man is the REAL man,

That is your opinion, but if you care to show me a direct reference that says that, fine.

the body is just a “tent” for the spirit, and the soul is merely the seat of (self) consciousness – sort of a ‘co-ordinator’ or ‘mediator’ between the spiritual and the physical.

The bible says that when God blew the breath of life in Adam he became a living soul. He became a living person, or being. So the word soul means being, creature, or person. I will agree though that the word soul has been used interchangeably in scripture to connote other meanings.

2Cor. 12:2
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.

If the experience could have been an “out-of-body” experience, in which case it would involve the spirit of the man being taken to the third heaven, then it should be fairly obvious that the spirit is a conscious, perceptive entity rather than a mere breath. As he later said in that passage, he “heard” many things, showing perception. And he was warned not to say some of those things, showing memory. These are all attributes that the spirit of man can exhibit, just like the body making use of the CNS can. That’s why Paul said he was not sure whether it was in the body or out of it, for – we can assume – it seemed to make no difference to him.

Once again you're bordering on speculation. The word spirit was not even mentioned in that passage. My take on that verse is different. Paul was in vision. He was talking about himself. In a vision one sees and hears things shown by God. One's mind, and not the spirit, is utilized in vision.

The same was true of John.
Rev. 4: 1-2
After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this." At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it.
He was called up to heaven. The text gives a lot of evidence to suggest that it was an out-of-body experience. The Greek word that is used to describe (I assume every instance of) bodily snatching up or catching up of people (see Acts. 8:39, 1Thess. 4:17, Rev. 12. 5, etc.) is not used to describe this experience. Instead, he says he was “in the Spirit (or spirit)”; strongly suggesting that it was his spirit-man that was involved.

Simply put John got a revelation. Nothing more to it. Notice the word "Spirit" is written in capital S. Its not the same thing as the "spirit of man" Besides, John was very much alive when he got the revelation. We are talking about life after death, not what happens when a person is alive.

The process of death
Now does the bible give us insight into what happens when one dies? If we look at some of Peter’s statements we can also get some insight:
2Pet 1:14-15
knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. And I will also be diligent that at any time after my departure you will be able to call these things to mind.
There are two senses of ‘departing’ – on the one hand, objectively, it is a departure from the brethren (to the brethren, Peter would have departed) on the other hand or subjectively, it is a departure of Peter from the body AND to be with the Lord.

Your definition of departure is subjective. Peter talked about his death. Nothing more should be added. Like Paul, Peter had the assurance of being with Christ. Its all about having the assurance.

I will address the other texts soon.

@ Pilgrim

Two questions:

(a) If the spirit departs the body at death, where does that spirit go?

(b) If the spirit is still in the grave at death, then from where does it RETURN?

See my set of scriptures I first gave to this thread. The bible says that the "spirit (breath of life) goes back to God from whence it came". The response to the second part of your question becomes obvious. At the resurrection God restores that same spirit to the glorified bodies of all the resurrected saints.

You have always assumed that the dead in Christ are still in the grave

That is what the scripture teaches. If the bible says the dead in Christ will rise first, then where are they rising from? No other place but the grave.

- which would mean that they never left their bodies (or "departed" their bodies).

Pilgrim there is no longer a "they". Once the spirit leaves the body at death there is no longer a "they". The bible says there is no memory of them. Listen:

The living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." "There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10.

"The dead praise not the Lord." Psalms 115:17.


“His breath goes forth, he returns to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish” Psalm 146:4

David spoke of “the sleep of death” (Psalm 13:3). All throughout the Old Testament, when kings died, they “slept with their fathers” (1 Kings 2:10).

The same is true in the New Testament. When Lazarus died, Jesus Christ said, “Our friend Lazarus is sleeping… Jesus spoke of his death” (John 11:11-13).

After Stephen was martyred, “he fell asleep” (Acts 7:60)

Dead Christians “sleep in Jesus” (1 Thess. 4:14).

Daniel wrote that at the end of time, “many who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2).

Jesus taught the same thing when He promised His disciples, “I will come again, and receive you to Myself” (John 14:3). So there can be no recieving before Jesus comes. When a Christian dies they are asleep in the grave as all those texts have pointed out.

If their spirits did not depart their bodies to go to some other place, then you would definitely not be speaking of the RETURN of those spirits to their (glorified) bodies! (How can you "depart" and yet "remain" at the same place, so that you can "return" when you never went anywhere else?) Grin

So who apart from you Pilgrim is concluding that? I have already said that the spirit goes back to God in accordance with scriptures. So why are you saying what I didn't say?

Now, as you seek answers to those questions, the simple issue in all your argument would be simply this: please find out WHERE those spirits went upon departing their bodies!

You need to answer that one. I already know!

Thank God for scriptural references. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 say it all as was already quoted. But let me quote it again.


1 Thes. 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

In other words the living righteous will not procede those saints that have died.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

The righteous dead will rise as complete persons. This happens when the same spirit that departed their bodies upon death returns to their now glorified bodies. Paul didn't say that those who went to heaven will rise first. What is so difficult to understand about someone dying or sleeping in the grave awaiting the resurrection?

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Paul makes it abundantly clear that its only after the resurrection that the resurrected saints, along with the living ones, will be with the Lord.

Daniel 12:2
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Here nothing is mentioned by the prophet about anyone going to heaven before the resurrection. One cannot spiritualize what is meant to be practical applications of scriptures.

Jesus never promised Christians heaven after they died. The New Testament plainly says that of the faithful men and women who had gone before, such spiritual giants as Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph and Moses, to name some of those listed in Hebrews 11—not one has ascended to heaven. In fact, says verse 39 of Hebrews 11, "These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised" (NIV).

So my question to all those who continue to teach this doctrine, is this. What exactly goes to heaven when anyone dies? Isn't it the spirit of man that goes back to God who gave it in accordance with scriptures? Is this spirit a person? Is it aware of what God has done? Absolutely not! The "spirit" is the breath of life, or the active life force that keeps mankind and animals alive until their death.

The bible clearly teaches that when we die we cease to know anything. All our thoughts and emotions go to the grave with us. The patriarch Job echoes Solomon's words. He writes: ". . . Man dies and is laid away; indeed he breathes his last and where is he? As water disappears from the sea, and a river becomes parched and dries up, so man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their sleep" (Job 14:10-12).

The promise of life after death is attached to the reality of Christ's resurrection. It is because He was resurrected that one day we too will be. That is what we look forward to as Christians. I am not the least interested in the thought that when I die I will precede those Christians who are still alive down here.

@ Noetic

I am with you on this.

The biblical fact is that those who die in Christ sleep until the resurrection. There can be no spiritual resurrection as others are saying. That is an oxymoron.

Let the bible do the talking. Sometimes its easy for us to have the tendency to quote a text that seems to say what in fact its not saying, and what we desire it to say. A lot of Christians tend to quote what Paul said without fully coming to a thorough understanding of what Paul really meant by the statement. A famous text used to support the argument that when a Christian dies they immediately go straight to heaven is this:-

2 Corinthians 5:8 says We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

This text in no way even remotely suggests that a Christian goes to heaven upon dying. If we read the entire passage leading up to this verse, we will see without a doubt that Paul was making a contrast between having to suffer with this mortal or earthly body, and otherwise called house in the passage, and the hope of one day possessing that heavenly body. The phrase used by him is ", willing rather to be absent from the body"

The phrase suggests a desire or strong wish to be present with the Lord now.

Now if we compare Pauline writings we would logically see that the above verse in 2 Corinthians 5:8 as interpreted by some to mean an immediate resurrection to heaven after death, albeit invisibly, would be a contradiction of other passages dealing with the subject of life after death. Listen as Paul comments:

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 say, 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Noticed what Paul said? Those Christians who are alive when Jesus comes will not "prevent them which are asleep" If those who had died in Christ had already gone to heaven, then why would Paul even think about making such a remark? This confirms what Jesus' response to the disciples was, when He said to them that Lazarus "sleepeth" when He Jesus knew that Lazarus had already died. Jesus deliberately used sleep to explain what exactly death was for the Christian. It was merely a sleep with the hope of waking up in the resurrection morning. It cannot be anything else.

Noticed what Paul said in this part of the verse, ? ", so shall we ever be with the Lord"

Our being with the Lord would have taken place after the resurrection, and not at or after death.

What happens when a person dies according to scriptures?
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7.

What is the "spirit" that returns to God at death?
"The body without the spirit ["breath," see margin] is dead." James 2:26

"The spirit of God ["the breath which God gave him," see margin] is in my nostrils." Job 27:3.

So in essence the spirit is the breath of life. That same spirit or breath of life was first placed in Adam's nostrils. According to scriptures when a person dies, including a Christian, his body returns to the earth or dust, and his spirit goes back to God. None of these passages remotely suggests that some how these spirits are conscious or aware of what is taking place on earth.

Satan from the garden of Eden first suggested to Eve that disobeying God would not surely result in death. He somehow convinced her, as he has done millions today, that no one really dies when they die. Some how their departed spirit is alive.

So u think mary and the Apostles ARE IN THEIR GRAVES!

Very much so until Christ comes to resurrect them.

On that day when He comes back you'll see who is common,

I hear what you're saying Pilgrim, but I don't think you understand what I am trying to say. Let me use an analogy. If I were to say to you that "my sister is physically dead" would it make a difference If I were to have simply said that "my sister is dead"?

I will assume that your response would be no.

If I were to say to you that "my sister is spiritually dead" what comes to mind? If I were to change up the grammer a bit and said instead, "my sister has experienced spiritual death" What comes to mind? The same meaning right?

My understanding of Genesis 2:17 is that both our parents Adam and Eve would experience both a physical and spiritual decline, or put another way, they would gradually lose the image of their Creator as time progressed.

To say that they both experienced spiritual death is like saying that their hope of spiritual restoration ceased before it even started. You bring as it were a certain suddenness to the whole thing. Adam and Eve did not totally lose their grasp on spiritual matters. If that were the case then they would have hardly had a reason to remain alive. Instead God explained to them the plan of salvation that was to unfold, which no doubt included them. In fact God Himself demonstrated in the act of taking the life of an animal to clothe them, to show them that one day His Son would have to shed His blood to save the world. Both Adam and Eve were instructed to teach their sons about the blood sacrifice that would typify Christ's supreme sacrifice. Abel was faithful to the command, while Cain chose to disobey, and the rest is history.

(c) the collective testimony of Scripture is that this death (spiritual death) passed upon EVERY single being that ever lived - even over those who had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression (Romans 5:14).

Romans 5:14
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

You see Adam had no desire to sin naturally as in our case. We were born with a natural propensity to sin, but in Adam's case that was not so. His sin was a deliberate act. He chose to sin.

I am inclined to see death in that sentence as physical, because even if a person accepts Christ he or she is still subject to the physical death, and that is the death that was pronounced upon Adam and Eve. You see the curse of death will always be physical even if a person is born again. Besides, being born again is no guarantee of eternal life. As the physical birth does not guarantee physical life, so likewise spiritual birth does not guarantee eternal life. Many who have entered as it were the spiritual world, and who had access to divine truth have backslided and turned again into the world.

I believe that Adam's sin brought condemnation, and this condemnation would be the final death or total separation that everyman would experience for failing to accept God's plan of salvation. The bible says there is a measure of faith in everyman. So even though we are born in sin, and shaped in iniquity, there lies within us a conscience that helps us to see right from wrong. Our conscience however can die if we fail to listen to the Holy Spirit's promptings. The further we move form God the harder it becomes to hear His Spirit.

(e) however, the basic principle that speaks of this specific experience in the event in Genesis is well encapsulated in 1 Corinthians 15:22 -- "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive". You can see here that being "made alive" is not a matter of being physically alive - for even Christians also die physically. The death that all die in Adam is spiritual death - it does not matter that a man lives the age of Methuselah.

Put it this way. For one to experience freedom from death physically, one must accept Christ's supreme sacrifice as their only means to salvation. So being made alive applies to both the spiritual as well as the physical. The spiritual restoration must proceed the physical one.

@ olabowale


Keep talking. Keep dreaming. I have no time to waste debating the obvious

@ dafidixone

the issue here is that we must call a spade a spade! they are one of the anti christs. Sad beware of them. Cool

One of you say? Even they won't be able to resist the subtilty of the anti-Christ.

Islam like all other false religions must be seen for what it really is, evil. Its the very opposite of what God is. Its forceful and oppressive and gives no freedom to anyone who chooses to believe otherwise. Dare any Moslem to believe otherwise in his country and see exactly what befalls him or her, death.

Majority of the people in Islamic countries want freedom but are afraid to talk. Eventually they will be isolated by the rest of the world, and be forced to see the light. The Jihad war as they call it is being lost by them, and that is why they are so desperate. If their god Allah was really on their side then wouldn't they have the upper hand by now? Just take a look at their countries and see what their religion is doing for them. They see the degradation and misery, yet fail to see the light

The good news is that Jesus is calling them one by one, and quite a lot have responded, and more will eventually.

If your brand Jesus is god, he did not have the quality of God. He was not able to stand firm and die like a believer! Yet God is the Lord of the believers. There is no believer that will be crying in the face of death! Your god could not even stand firm and take it like an ordinary believer, yet he created death for the means of bringing creation to the stage of judgment day.

That is the very same kind of mockery that the Jews and Romans carried out against Jesus you see. Its so funny to hear some Moslems speak of Jesus as a prophet, yet now you say He didn't stand firm as a believer.

What would you do if you had to bear the sins of the world from all ages, and had your own soul crushed by sin? Your little insignificant mind cannot begin to grasp the kind of suffering that Jesus had to go through. Don't forget He was 100% human. Don't forget He had completely submitted to His Father. Don't forget that it took more courage and control on the part of Jesus to face mockery and ridicule knowing how much power He had at His disposal. That is called extreme love.

And by the way I know you know all the answers to the questions you have asked me. So why bother to ask?

My argument is simply this Pilgrim. The expression "in the day, " does not confine itself to spiritual death. Logically speaking death connotes the cessation of life, be it spiritual, or physical. In my understanding "in the day, " means that at what ever moment Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, the process of death both physically and spiritually would have started.

As usual the KJV seems to pose a problem in its manner of translation.

However, the Qur'an stated the word TRINITY, very clearly and states that it is a lie. The Qur'an states that people should desist from the word or the concept behind the word!

The problem is we believe in the bible and not the Qu'ran.

And from the verses in Daniel that you quoted above, it is very unclear and therefore difficult to know who is the Him who 'all peoples, nations, and languages is to serve?'

The expression "Son of man" was used by Christ to describe Himself while He was here on earth. Its an expression that reveals the important work of Christ in heaven in that Christ is the only one that fully understands what its like to become human as God. God became flesh the scripture says.

John 1:1-3
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

The Him in John is the very same Him that approached the Father in Daniel 7. Jesus is fully God who became fully man, and addressed Himself while on earth as "the Son of man" This same "son of man" is the same person who approached His Father in the judgment scene in heaven.

There can be no confusion as to who the verse is talking about. That section of the book of Daniel highlights the present judgment taking place in heaven as we speak. Daniel was assuring God's people that even though the Anti-Christ would make war with the righteous and persecute them, it would not escape the righteous judgment of God who is taking note of everything done on earth.

From the verse we see that whoever that Him is, is the only Him from the two Him(s) that should be served. So here is your problem, Bobbyaf, which is the Him to be served God, who the other Him was brought before or Jesus (One like the son of man) who is the Him that was brought before the Him, which is God? Get yourself out of this shalanga. I want to see how you will do it. I will be watching, okay! I am ready to throw you back into it, again and again!

I think you know who that "him" is, but are afraid to confess it. Daniel the prophet made it abundantly clear. The point is Jesus before He came to this earth was always representing heaven. Jesus was and still is the chief mouth piece of God the Father. That is why He visited Abraham before the destruction of Sodom. That is why He visited Moses in the burning bush.

Babs787 Adam's death in the context of Genesis 2 was both physical and spiritual. I am inclined to think however that God stressed the physical death. If you examine the sentence construction carefully, you'll notice God said "shall die"

If God had meant a spiritual death it would mean that both Adam and Eve could not have been restored. You see the word "shall" connotates certainty, and if it was intended to mean a spiritual death as Pilgrim is sugesting, then both our parents would have died without the possibility of salvation.

So in essence Adam and Eve were not expected to have died instantaneously, or where would the love of God be manifested in trying to restore them?

Genesis 3:15 points to the reality of Jesus death for the sins of the world caused by Eve and Adam.
And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.”

Here Christ Himself their Creator spoke to their salvation. Although He adressed Satan directly who possessed and spoke through the serpent, Christ was addressing the conflict that would exist between good and evil, and that one day He the seed of the woman would be bruised(as seen in His death on calvary), but Satan's head would be crushed. In other words as long as good existed evil will never have free reign. Good will always be there to keep it in check because of what God's Son did on calvary. There will always be two kinds of people. Those that follow after righteousness, and those that follow after evil. Seth's descendants followed God, while Cain's followed evil.

Christ was that seed and eventually did manifest Himself to die on behalf of the world as promised. Christ Himself in the NT spoke of this often.

John 6:51 says, 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

Babs787 its an already accepted fact that the word Trinity is not found in the bible. The concept of three distinct persons does however exist in scriptures.

Let me show you several texts that highlight that concept:

Daniel 7:13,14 13 “ I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him. 14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.

From this text alone its evident that there are two distinct persons. The Ancient of Days is the Father and the Son of Man is Jesus.

This represents the judgement scene in heaven where Jesus is now our High Priest interceding on our behalf in that same judgement in which all men are judged.

Revelation 5
1 And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals.

2 Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?”

3 And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it.

4 So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it.

5 But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.”

6 And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7 Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.

The He in the 7th verse is Jesus, and the Him in the same verse is the Father.

You may be asking "so where is the Holy Ghost in all of this?" My response would be thus, The third member of the Godhead or Trinity as we term it as christians is very much a mystery in the fullest sense. We are not sure what He looks like. We only know of His work in our lives as Christians.

The Spirit of God participated in creation. He empowered Samson in OT times. He inspired and empowered Elijah and Elisha, and all the writers of original scriptures.

So our use of the word trinity is merely to paint a clearer picture of what God as a title constitutes. Its One God, but three persons who share the title.

Yes, we believe in hell as well as heaven. We believe that hell will not carry on indefinitely, and that eventually Satan, sinners, and sin will be finally destroyed. We also believe that the redeemed will only spend 1000 years in heaven after which the New Jerusalem containing all God's children will descend and suspend over the mount of Olives.

After God would have judged the wicked prior to their ultimate destruction, He will create a new heaven and earth. The New Jerusalem or City of God will rest on the earth forever. We will live in this glorious city. God the Father and His Son and the un-fallen angels will dwell with us. In other words heaven will be on earth. The earth will become the capital of the universe.

Make sure you get there!

@ Dafidixone

I really appreciated that explanation. One of the analogies I have come to rely on in understanding this Trinity concept is to see the word God as government. So in essence the word God being a title is used to represent one system of governance in which all three persons share.

@ Khai Khai

Who started christianity?

Jesus Christ. There was no RCC in the 1st century.

Who compiled the bible for its use in christianity?

Most of the compilation was done by Catholic scholars because they were apart of a system that had control. So although the system was inherently currupt, it doesn't mean that good and sincere catholic scholars could not have been used by God to some how preserve Holy Writ. That we can agree on.

Yes the RCC is noted for some its great contributions to christianity, but it has apostasised from the truth over time as predicted by Paul in his letter to the christians of Thessalonica. Paul spoke of the falling away that would manifest before Christ's second advent. He spoke of the man of sin that would sit in the temple of God usurping God's authority.

@ Khai Khai

Who started christianity?

Jesus Christ. There was no RCC in the 1st century.

Who compiled the bible for its use in christianity?

Most of the compilation was done by Catholic scholars because they were apart of a system that had control. So although the system was inherently currupt, it doesn't mean that good and sincere catholic scholars could not have been used by God to some how preserve Holy Writ. That we can agree on.

Yes the RCC is noted for some its great contributions to christianity, but it has apostasised from the truth over time as predicted by Paul in his letter to the christians of Thessalonica. Paul spoke of the falling away that would manifest before Christ's second advent. He spoke of the man of sin that would sit in the temple of God usurping God's authority.

@ sphinxx

I don't see know why religion should be a very serious hindrance if there is very strong love between a couple.

The whole thing makes me wonder.

Let me ask you a question. Whose love is more important to you, Christ's or the lady's? If Christ says only yoke with those who share your beliefs, or faith, then why would you do otherwise? Paul asks the logical question, can two walk together unless they agree?

Its always the same results. When the novelty of how you feel begins to fade, and the issue of doctrines arise, which they will, how would you handle it?

Choose wisely and you will have no regrets.

@ Biiffe

ok. i heard you.

does that include jesus christ?

Yes it does! Jesus became a man forever. However, His body has been glorified.

@ Xvalier

I stay in the North East part of Nigeria, and I understand that my question may come as a shock to some Christians. But when you see and witness everyday what we experince here everyday, you would want to think again.
When I say Fire Arms, I refer to a licensed fire Arm, not like those acquired by armed robbers.

The rate at which religious disturbances occur here is alarming, we take cover in Military Cantoments when these events occur. I have many Muslims friends, I eat with them, we play together, however, most of them are Southern Muslims, though I have a few Northern Muslims, I am extra careful with them.

During crisis period, the Northern muslims do not know you as friends, they can kill the very person they ate with the day before. The advise for Fire Arms actually came from the Church council here (all churches here belong to this council)

Like I said earlier, owning Fire Arms might appear strange to my brothers and sisters in the South, here we are seriously considering having one so we can defend ourselves when another crisis occurs, and I assure you, that will be in less than 3 weeks.

What does the Bible say?HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh?

Just one question for you. Did any of the disciples seek to protect themselves when faced with danger from their enemies? Did Jesus encourage them in anyway to defend themselves?

I might be wrong but I can't ever recall the righteous having to defend themselves when faced with danger, percieved or otherwise.

Ever heard of MASON?

This I suppose the cult behind the propagfation of the New World Order.

The issue of 666 as in number might not be totally correct of the beast.

The beast is here already. The beast rules the world economy today.

The power of the beast is just in variuos strategy he is adopting to rule the world.

Have you heard that Satan has his temples? in some part of the world including Africa.

The satanic Pentagram is also beautified and turn survenair.

Very soon the mark will be tattoo of satanic Pentagram on those who will not be raptured.

This is just the beginning of an end.

Yes those agencies are known. The difference though, is that the beast doesn't come up front. He uses the state to do its dirty work. If we look at Revelation 13 carefully we will notice another beast that arose from the earth. It is this beast that will create an image to the first beast that rose from the sea. Its extremely important to see that.

The lamb-like beast that came from the earth represents the USA. This beast will create a similar situation or an image, that once existed in Europe from which the first beast came. The symbols "sea" and "earth" both mean people. The US came out of a population that was sparse, while the beast came out of a dense population. So if you look at the order of development of nations, you will notice that Europe initially had the power and was the centre of historical importance, followed by the US, which was a fairly new power on the rise.

Look at the order of Kingdoms as outlined by Daniel 7.

The four kingdoms of Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, Rome, and the 10 European nations or kingdoms, Papal Rome or the RCC.

John in Revelation 13 picks up on the beast arising from Europe initially, and while it lost power temporarily due to the French revolution, a new and powerful nation was on the rise. That new kid on the block was the US. Its called the lamb-like beast because of its initial advocacy of religious freedom. It was as gentle as a lamb based on its constitution that guaranteed freedom of religion. But John noticed something. He noticed that this gentle creature would eventually speak like a dragon.

11 Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. 12 He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. 14Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.

At first the US constitution protected people's right to choose according to their conscience, but if we look at the US today we can see the subtle changes. When the puritans landed in the US in the early 17th century they were running from Papal persecution. They ran from the beast. No catholics were allowed to even work in the US. As time progressed all that has changed. Today RCs have taken over the US. They are everywhere and have taken up root in the halls of Congress in order to carry out their Papa's wish.

If you live to see it, you will one day see the US pass legislation forcing all to worship on Sunday. The Sunday Blue laws are already on the books. The RCC's objective is to establish Sunday observance as its mark of authority. And the sad thing is they are using the evangelicals and other Christians to lead the way while they stay in the background.

Those who have ears let them hear!

@ Handell

wow, thats a load of information! but i think am more concerned about not being around when that time comes.

Unfortunately Handell no one will escape it. Not even the church will escape it. God's people must bring themselves to the stage where we see it for what it is now before its way too late. We must choose while there is religious freedom. The Bible is our only guide in terms of knowing God's will and truth.

There is a teaching in christendome that has taken on popularity, which says that the church will escape this period of severe trial, but if you search the scriptures there is no such teaching. God didn't promise to remove the trials, but to help us through them. Listen to Daniel:

Daniel 12:1-2 says, 1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Jesus picks up on the same subject in Matthew, Matthew 24: 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

So this time of distress will overtake the whole world including the people of God. However, the difference lies in the choice we make. Will we choose God and His word, or will we choose a system that appears to be true, but instead is a counterfeit. Jesus alludes to us having to endure to the end in order to be saved.

So the "Left Behind" series is just a device used to confuse Christians into thinking that somehow Jesus will whisk the church away into heaven, while the unconverted will be given a chance to choose between Christ and the Anti-Christ.

The Anti-Christ is here. Soon we will see its mark. Its just a matter of time. And Like I said its not 666.

Do you think it is? Let us hear your point of view first.

@ Benheart

@ Bobbyaf

What's your argument now?

As it has always been! The redeemed will have real and living bodies. We will be able to eat from the tree of life that is as real as when it was first placed in the garden of Eden. In other words our bodies will be like those of Adam and Eve before they sinned.

@ smile4kenn

I think you lack the ability to know whats good and whats right. I am a journalist to be. I have been studying journalism for 3 years now and i was taught never to insult other people's religion or feelings.

I am afraid that what you call insult isn't really. If expressing oneself freely on an open forum is considered an insult, then whats the point of having a public forum? The truth is an offense Jesus said, but its not a sin.

i was taught never to write what am not sure of or never seen before.

Al that is noble of you, but have you confirmed if what Pilgrim has said is true or not? As a budding journalist isn't it a part of your job to thrash out truth from fiction?

Now in Nairaland, i can see munprofessional criticizing of nairaland. while growing up, i sued to be very religious and so, but later am no more religious, i do follow my friends to mosque, to hindu temple and to other churches. i don't criticize. i always ask god for the grace to follow the good path and forgiveness.

And what do you expect to achieve from all this following of your friends who have at least made up their minds about what they believe? Obviously you haven't sorted out what is true. You need to know what you believe and live it out in your life. Let them follow you to what you believe, and not the other way around.

But while must you criticize catholic church, if you don't like catholic's way of worship, then don't criticize because there are faithfuls you need to respect their feelings. have u heard of religious crisis?

Someone has to let those faithfuls know that what they are apart of is not what Jesus approves of. Thats why Jesus said the "truth is an offense but not a sin" While I agree that there are ways to deliver truth, it must not be done in an un-compromising manner. When Jesus rebuked the pharasees and saducees, and called them white-washed sepulchres, he did it in love. To them it didn't sound that way, because they preferred living a lie.

Well seun, i still stand on my plead to bann pilgrim1, but if she has apologized, thats not enough because she has to send a personal apology to the hundreds of million catholic faithfuls worldwide, lol,

What a task!

I am SDA.

1. Holy Scriptures:
The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration through holy men of God who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to man the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God's acts in history. (2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Ps. 119:105; Prov. 30:5, 6; Isa. 8:20; John 17:17; 1 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 4:12.)

2. Trinity:
There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation. (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 14:7.)


3. Father:
God the eternal Father is the Creator, Source, Sustainer, and Sovereign of all creation. He is just and holy, merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness. The qualities and powers exhibited in the Son and the Holy Spirit are also revelations of the Father. (Gen. 1:1; Rev. 4:11; 1 Cor. 15:28; John 3:16; 1 John 4:8; 1 Tim. 1:17; Ex. 34:6, 7; John 14:9.)

4. Son:
God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged. Forever truly God, He became also truly man, Jesus the Christ. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived and experienced temptation as a human being, but perfectly exemplified the righteousness and love of God. By His miracles He manifested God's power and was attested as God's promised Messiah. He suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place, was raised from the dead, and ascended to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf. He will come again in glory for the final deliverance of His people and the restoration of all things. (John 1:1-3, 14; Col. 1:15-19; John 10:30; 14:9; Rom. 6:23; 2 Cor. 5:17-19; John 5:22; Luke 1:35; Phil. 2:5-11; Heb. 2:9-18; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4; Heb. 8:1, 2; John 14:1-3.)

5. Holy Spirit:
God the eternal Spirit was active with the Father and the Son in Creation, incarnation, and redemption. He inspired the writers of Scripture. He filled Christ's life with power. He draws and convicts human beings; and those who respond He renews and transforms into the image of God. Sent by the Father and the Son to be always with His children, He extends spiritual gifts to the church, empowers it to bear witness to Christ, and in harmony with the Scriptures leads it into all truth. (Gen. 1:1, 2; Luke 1:35; 4:18; Acts 10:38; 2 Peter 1:21; 2 Cor. 3:18; Eph. 4:11, 12; Acts 1:8; John 14:16-18, 26; 15:26, 27; 16:7-13.)

6. Creation:
God is Creator of all things, and has revealed in Scripture the authentic account of His creative activity. In six days the Lord made "the heaven and the earth" and all living things upon the earth, and rested on the seventh day of that first week. Thus He established the Sabbath as a perpetual memorial of His completed creative work. The first man and woman were made in the image of God as the crowning work of Creation, given dominion over the world, and charged with responsibility to care for it. When the world was finished it was ``very good,'' declaring the glory of God. (Gen. 1; 2; Ex. 20:8-11; Ps. 19:1-6; 33:6, 9; 104; Heb. 11:3.)

7. Nature of Man:
Man and woman were made in the image of God with individuality, the power and freedom to think and to do. Though created free beings, each is an indivisible unity of body, mind, and spirit, dependent upon God for life and breath and all else. When our first parents disobeyed God, they denied their dependence upon Him and fell from their high position under God. The image of God in them was marred and they became subject to death. Their descendants share this fallen nature and its consequences. They are born with weaknesses and tendencies to evil. But God in Christ reconciled the world to Himself and by His Spirit restores in penitent mortals the image of their Maker. Created for the glory of God, they are called to love Him and one another, and to care for their environment. (Gen. 1:26-28; 2:7; Ps. 8:4-8; Acts 17:24-28; Gen. 3; Ps. 51:5; Rom. 5:12-17; 2 Cor. 5:19, 20; Ps. 51:10; 1 John 4:7, 8, 11, 20; Gen. 2:15.)

8. Great Controversy:
All humanity is now involved in a great controversy between Christ and Satan regarding the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe. This conflict originated in heaven when a created being, endowed with freedom of choice, in self-exaltation became Satan, God's adversary, and led into rebellion a portion of the angels. He introduced the spirit of rebellion into this world when he led Adam and Eve into sin. This human sin resulted in the distortion of the image of God in humanity, the disordering of the created world, and its eventual devastation at the time of the worldwide flood. Observed by the whole creation, this world became the arena of the universal conflict, out of which the God of love will ultimately be vindicated. To assist His people in this controversy, Christ sends the Holy Spirit and the loyal angels to guide, protect, and sustain them in the way of salvation. (Rev. 12:4-9; Isa. 14:12-14; Eze. 28:12-18; Gen. 3; Rom. 1:19-32; 5:12-21; 8:19-22; Gen. 6-8; 2 Peter 3:6; 1 Cor. 4:9; Heb. 1:14.)

9. Life, Death, and Resurrection of Christ:
In Christ's life of perfect obedience to God's will, His suffering, death, and resurrection, God provided the only means of atonement for human sin, so that those who by faith accept this atonement may have eternal life, and the whole creation may better understand the infinite and holy love of the Creator. This perfect atonement vindicates the righteousness of God's law and the graciousness of His character; for it both condemns our sin and provides for our forgiveness. The death of Christ is substitutionary and expiatory, reconciling and transforming. The resurrection of Christ proclaims God's triumph over the forces of evil, and for those who accept the atonement assures their final victory over sin and death. It declares the Lordship of Jesus Christ, before whom every knee in heaven and on earth will bow. (John 3:16; Isa. 53; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4, 20-22; 2 Cor. 5:14, 15, 19-21; Rom. 1:4; 3:25; 4:25; 8:3, 4; 1 John 2:2; 4:10; Col. 2:15; Phil. 2:6-11.)

10. Experience of Salvation:
In infinite love and mercy God made Christ, who knew no sin, to be sin for us, so that in Him we might be made the righteousness of God. Led by the Holy Spirit we sense our need, acknowledge our sinfulness, repent of our transgressions, and exercise faith in Jesus as Lord and Christ, as Substitute and Example. This faith which receives salvation comes through the divine power of the Word and is the gift of God's grace. Through Christ we are justified, adopted as God's sons and daughters, and delivered from the lordship of sin. Through the Spirit we are born again and sanctified; the Spirit renews our minds, writes God's law of love in our hearts, and we are given the power to live a holy life. Abiding in Him we become partakers of the divine nature and have the assurance of salvation now and in the judgment. (2 Cor. 5:17-21; John 3:16; Gal. 1:4; 4:4-7; Titus 3:3-7; John 16:8; Gal. 3:13, 14; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; Rom. 10:17; Luke 17:5; Mark 9:23, 24; Eph. 2:5-10; Rom. 3:21-26; Col. 1:13, 14; Rom. 8:14-17; Gal. 3:26; John 3:3-8; 1 Peter 1:23; Rom. 12:2; Heb. 8:7-12; Eze. 36:25-27; 2 Peter 1:3, 4; Rom. 8:1-4; 5:6-10.)

11. Growing in Christ:
By His death on the cross Jesus triumphed over the forces of evil. He who subjugated the demonic spirits during His earthly ministry has broken their power and made certain their ultimate doom. Jesus' victory gives us victory over the evil forces that still seek to control us, as we walk with Him in peace, joy, and assurance of His love. Now the Holy Spirit dwells within us and empowers us. Continually committed to Jesus as our Saviour and Lord, we are set free from the burden of our past deeds. No longer do we live in the darkness, fear of evil powers, ignorance, and meaninglessness of our former way of life. In this new freedom in Jesus, we are called to grow into the likeness of His character, communing with Him daily in prayer, feeding on His Word, meditating on it and on His providence, singing His praises, gathering together for worship, and participating in the mission of the Church. As we give ourselves in loving service to those around us and in witnessing to His salvation, His constant presence with us through the Spirit transforms every moment and every task into a spiritual experience. (Ps 1:1, 2; 23:4; 77:11, 12; Col 1:13, 14; 2:6, 14, 15; Luke 10:17-20; Eph 5:19, 20; 6:12-18; 1 Thess 5:23; 2 Peter 2:9; 3:18; 2 Cor. 3:17, 18; Phil 3:7-14; 1 Thess 5:16-18; Matt 20:25-28; John 20:21; Gal 5:22-25; Rom 8:38, 39; 1 John 4:4; Heb 10:25.)

12. Church:
The church is the community of believers who confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. In continuity with the people of God in Old Testament times, we are called out from the world; and we join together for worship, for fellowship, for instruction in the Word, for the celebration of the Lord's Supper, for service to all mankind, and for the worldwide proclamation of the gospel. The church derives its authority from Christ, who is the incarnate Word, and from the Scriptures, which are the written Word. The church is God's family; adopted by Him as children, its members live on the basis of the new covenant. The church is the body of Christ, a community of faith of which Christ Himself is the Head. The church is the bride for whom Christ died that He might sanctify and cleanse her. At His return in triumph, He will present her to Himself a glorious church, the faithful of all the ages, the purchase of His blood, not having spot or wrinkle, but holy and without blemish. (Gen. 12:3; Acts 7:38; Eph. 4:11-15; 3:8-11; Matt. 28:19, 20; 16:13-20; 18:18; Eph. 2:19-22; 1:22, 23; 5:23-27; Col. 1:17, 18.)
13. Remnant and Its Mission:
The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ, but in the last days, a time of widespread apostasy, a remnant has been called out to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. This remnant announces the arrival of the judgment hour, proclaims salvation through Christ, and heralds the approach of His second advent. This proclamation is symbolized by the three angels of Revelation 14; it coincides with the work of judgment in heaven and results in a work of repentance and reform on earth. Every believer is called to have a personal part in this worldwide witness. (Rev. 12:17; 14:6-12; 18:1-4; 2 Cor. 5:10; Jude 3, 14; 1 Peter 1:16-19; 2 Peter 3:10-14; Rev. 21:1-14.)

14. Unity in the Body of Christ:
The church is one body with many members, called from every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. In Christ we are a new creation; distinctions of race, culture, learning, and nationality, and differences between high and low, rich and poor, male and female, must not be divisive among us. We are all equal in Christ, who by one Spirit has bonded us into one fellowship with Him and with one another; we are to serve and be served without partiality or reservation. Through the revelation of Jesus Christ in the Scriptures we share the same faith and hope, and reach out in one witness to all. This unity has its source in the oneness of the triune God, who has adopted us as His children. (Rom. 12:4, 5; 1 Cor. 12:12-14; Matt. 28:19, 20; Ps. 133:1; 2 Cor. 5:16, 17; Acts 17:26, 27; Gal. 3:27, 29; Col. 3:10-15; Eph. 4:14-16; 4:1-6; John 17:20-23.)

15. Baptism:
By baptism we confess our faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and testify of our death to sin and of our purpose to walk in newness of life. Thus we acknowledge Christ as Lord and Saviour, become His people, and are received as members by His church. Baptism is a symbol of our union with Christ, the forgiveness of our sins, and our reception of the Holy Spirit. It is by immersion in water and is contingent on an affirmation of faith in Jesus and evidence of repentance of sin. It follows instruction in the Holy Scriptures and acceptance of their teachings. (Rom. 6:1-6; Col. 2:12, 13; Acts 16:30-33; 22:16; 2:38; Matt. 28:19, 20.)

16. Lord's Supper:
The Lord's Supper is a participation in the emblems of the body and blood of Jesus as an expression of faith in Him, our Lord and Saviour. In this experience of communion Christ is present to meet and strengthen His people. As we partake, we joyfully proclaim the Lord's death until He comes again. Preparation for the Supper includes self-examination, repentance, and confession. The Master ordained the service of foot washing to signify renewed cleansing, to express a willingness to serve one another in Christlike humility, and to unite our hearts in love. The communion service is open to all believing Christians. (1 Cor. 10:16, 17; 11:23-30; Matt. 26:17-30; Rev. 3:20; John 6:48-63; 13:1-17.)

17. Spiritual Gifts and Ministries:
God bestows upon all members of His church in every age spiritual gifts which each member is to employ in loving ministry for the common good of the church and of humanity. Given by the agency of the Holy Spirit, who apportions to each member as He wills, the gifts provide all abilities and ministries needed by the church to fulfill its divinely ordained functions. According to the Scriptures, these gifts include such ministries as faith, healing, prophecy, proclamation, teaching, administration, reconciliation, compassion, and self-sacrificing service and charity for the help and encouragement of people. Some members are called of God and endowed by the Spirit for functions recognized by the church in pastoral, evangelistic, apostolic, and teaching ministries particularly needed to equip the members for service, to build up the church to spiritual maturity, and to foster unity of the faith and knowledge of God. When members employ these spiritual gifts as faithful stewards of God's varied grace, the church is protected from the destructive influence of false doctrine, grows with a growth that is from God, and is built up in faith and love. (Rom. 12:4-8; 1 Cor. 12:9-11, 27, 28; Eph. 4:8, 11-16; Acts 6:1-7; 1 Tim. 3:1-13; 1 Peter 4:10, 11.)

18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

19. Law of God:
The great principles of God's law are embodied in the Ten Commandments and exemplified in the life of Christ. They express God's love, will, and purposes concerning human conduct and relationships and are binding upon all people in every age. These precepts are the basis of God's covenant with His people and the standard in God's judgment. Through the agency of the Holy Spirit they point out sin and awaken a sense of need for a Saviour. Salvation is all of grace and not of works, but its fruitage is obedience to the Commandments. This obedience develops Christian character and results in a sense of well-being. It is an evidence of our love for the Lord and our concern for our fellow men. The obedience of faith demonstrates the power of Christ to transform lives, and therefore strengthens Christian witness. (Ex. 20:1-17; Ps. 40:7, 8; Matt. 22:36-40; Deut. 28:1-14; Matt. 5:17-20; Heb. 8:8-10; John 15:7-10; Eph. 2:8-10; 1 John 5:3; Rom. 8:3, 4; Ps. 19:7-14.)

20. Sabbath:
The beneficent Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God's unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God's kingdom. The Sabbath is God's perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God's creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Ex. 20:8-11; Luke 4:16; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Matt. 12:1-12; Ex. 31:13-17; Eze. 20:12, 20; Deut. 5:12-15; Heb. 4:1-11; Lev. 23:32; Mark 1:32.)

21. Stewardship:
We are God's stewards, entrusted by Him with time and opportunities, abilities and possessions, and the blessings of the earth and its resources. We are responsible to Him for their proper use. We acknowledge God's ownership by faithful service to Him and our fellow men, and by returning tithes and giving offerings for the proclamation of His gospel and the support and growth of His church. Stewardship is a privilege given to us by God for nurture in love and the victory over selfishness and covetousness. The steward rejoices in the blessings that come to others as a result of his faithfulness. (Gen. 1:26-28; 2:15; 1 Chron. 29:14; Haggai 1:3-11; Mal. 3:8-12; 1 Cor. 9:9-14; Matt. 23:23; 2 Cor. 8:1-15; Rom. 15:26, 27.)

22. Christian Behavior:
We are called to be a godly people who think, feel, and act in harmony with the principles of heaven. For the Spirit to recreate in us the character of our Lord we involve ourselves only in those things which will produce Christlike purity, health, and joy in our lives. This means that our amusement and entertainment should meet the highest standards of Christian taste and beauty. While recognizing cultural differences, our dress is to be simple, modest, and neat, befitting those whose true beauty does not consist of outward adornment but in the imperishable ornament of a gentle and quiet spirit. It also means that because our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, we are to care for them intelligently. Along with adequate exercise and rest, we are to adopt the most healthful diet possible and abstain from the unclean foods identified in the Scriptures. Since alcoholic beverages, tobacco, and the irresponsible use of drugs and narcotics are harmful to our bodies, we are to abstain from them as well. Instead, we are to engage in whatever brings our thoughts and bodies into the discipline of Christ, who desires our wholesomeness, joy, and goodness. (Rom. 12:1, 2; 1 John 2:6; Eph. 5:1-21; Phil. 4:8; 2 Cor. 10:5; 6:14-7:1; 1 Peter 3:1-4; 1 Cor. 6:19, 20; 10:31; Lev. 11:1-47; 3 John 2.)

23. Marriage and the Family:
Marriage was divinely established in Eden and affirmed by Jesus to be a lifelong union between a man and a woman in loving companionship. For the Christian a marriage commitment is to God as well as to the spouse, and should be entered into only between partners who share a common faith. Mutual love, honor, respect, and responsibility are the fabric of this relationship, which is to reflect the love, sanctity, closeness, and permanence of the relationship between Christ and His church. Regarding divorce, Jesus taught that the person who divorces a spouse, except for fornication, and marries another, commits adultery. Although some family relationships may fall short of the ideal, marriage partners who fully commit themselves to each other in Christ may achieve loving unity through the guidance of the Spirit and the nurture of the church. God blesses the family and intends that its members shall assist each other toward complete maturity. Parents are to bring up their children to love and obey the Lord. By their example and their words they are to teach them that Christ is a loving disciplinarian, ever tender and caring, who wants them to become members of His body, the family of God. Increasing family closeness is one of the earmarks of the final gospel message. (Gen. 2:18-25; Matt. 19:3-9; John 2:1-11; 2 Cor. 6:14; Eph. 5:21-33; Matt. 5:31, 32; Mark 10:11, 12; Luke 16:18; 1 Cor. 7:10, 11; Ex. 20:12; Eph. 6:1-4; Deut. 6:5-9; Prov. 22:6; Mal. 4:5, 6.)

24. Christ's Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary:
There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent. (Heb. 8:1-5; 4:14-16; 9:11-28; 10:19-22; 1:3; 2:16, 17; Dan. 7:9-27; 8:13, 14; 9:24-27; Num. 14:34; Eze. 4:6; Lev. 16; Rev. 14:6, 7; 20:12; 14:12; 22:12.)

25. Second Coming of Christ:
The second coming of Christ is the blessed hope of the church, the grand climax of the gospel. The Saviour's coming will be literal, personal, visible, and worldwide. When He returns, the righteous dead will be resurrected, and together with the righteous living will be glorified and taken to heaven, but the unrighteous will die. The almost complete fulfillment of most lines of prophecy, together with the present condition of the world, indicates that Christ's coming is imminent. The time of that event has not been revealed, and we are therefore exhorted to be ready at all times. (Titus 2:13; Heb. 9:28; John 14:1-3; Acts 1:9-11; Matt. 24:14; Rev. 1:7; Matt. 24:43, 44; 1 Thess. 4:13-18; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; 2:8; Rev. 14:14-20; 19:11-21; Matt. 24; Mark 13; Luke 21; 2 Tim. 3:1-5; 1 Thess. 5:1-6.)

26. Death and Resurrection:
The wages of sin is death. But God, who alone is immortal, will grant eternal life to His redeemed. Until that day death is an unconscious state for all people. When Christ, who is our life, appears, the resurrected righteous and the living righteous will be glorified and caught up to meet their Lord. The second resurrection, the resurrection of the unrighteous, will take place a thousand years later. (Rom. 6:23; 1 Tim. 6:15, 16; Eccl. 9:5, 6; Ps. 146:3, 4; John 11:11-14; Col. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1 Thess. 4:13-17; John 5:28, 29; Rev. 20:1-10.)

27. Millennium and the End of Sin:
The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time the wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate, without living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At its close Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to earth. The unrighteous dead will then be resurrected, and with Satan and his angels will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and cleanse the earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever. (Rev. 20; 1 Cor. 6:2, 3; Jer. 4:23-26; Rev. 21:1-5; Mal. 4:1; Eze. 28:18, 19.)

28. New Earth:
On the new earth, in which righteousness dwells, God will provide an eternal home for the redeemed and a perfect environment for everlasting life, love, joy, and learning in His presence. For here God Himself will dwell with His people, and suffering and death will have passed away. The great controversy will be ended, and sin will be no more. All things, animate and inanimate, will declare that God is love; and He shall reign forever. Amen. (2 Peter 3:13; Isa. 35; 65:17-25; Matt. 5:5; Rev. 21:1-7; 22:1-5; 11:15.)

How does one see this passage in 3 John 2 which says "I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in good heallth even as thy soul prospers"

If you had a choice between being rich and being poor what would you choose?

@ ajadrage

No they do not have an appetite, they have a very healthy "spiritual appetite"

Thats a good one!

@ Biife

jesus\' ressurection was as a spirit not human [ consider paul\'s argument as regards
those who\'re raised to life in heaven; they shed corruption to inherit that which is
incorruptible]. so how come his disciples could see him afterall?

as a powerful spirit person he could materialize into human body.
but be that as it may, the most important thing is that he was raised by his
heavenly father.

what else?

Remember what the angels said to the disciples when Jesus was ascending to heaven?


Acts 1:9-11 "Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”


Did Jesus ascend visibly and in bodily form? Yes according to scriptures, or how else would they have been able to gaze on Him for long while went up?

I can fully understand why its difficult in seeing anyone living in heaven in bodily form, and that is because we have taken the word "spiritual" or "spirit" out of context. The word spirit is used to make a contrast between sinful existence and a heavenly existence. Nothing more. So when it says God is a Spirit it means that God isn't subject to the conditions we are faced with. He cannot die nor can He be subject to sickness and death lke we are.

Paul in Philipians 3:20,21 has made it clear that Jesus has a glorious body and that He Jesus will fashion ours like unto His. I can't see anyone floating around as some dis-embodied spirits.

This is what is causing the confusion.

1 Corinthian 15:40-44 "There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

Here the word spiritual is used to describe the redeemed who resurrect to eternal life. Its not used by Paul to dwell on the issue of whether our bodies will possess flesh or not. Its used to make a contrast between what our bodies will be like in heaven, as against what we are subject to now in this life, and that is death and decay, or curruption.

The fact is Jesus will still bear the crucifixion marks forever. His feet and wrists will still bear those marks as a reminder of what sin did to us and Him. In heaven the redeemed will be able to touch and handle Jesus. Listen as Paul describes it:

1 Thessalonians 4:16,17 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

An inexhaustible, pure river of water flows out of the throne of God, and the tree of life yields a different fruit crop each month. These fabulous fruits and their leaves provide the antidote of death and perpetuate eternal life. As soon as the redeemed are transported back to the earth inside God's holy city made by Himself, God's saints will raise their own food at their country homes (Isaiah 65:21). The diet of God's people will be what it was before sin entered the world--fruits, grains, and nuts (Genesis 1:29, 31). The taste will be indescribably delicious, and the nutritional value will be perfect.

This tree of life will will once again be restored as it was in the garden of Eden and all God's people with bodies will eat from such a tree. I am not sure that spirits have an appetite, do they?

Well, I can understand the feeling. In fact the disciples felt the same way in their day. In their struggles and persecution they longed for Jesus to return. Paul had to encourage a lot of christians who simply grew weary. He reminded them that its worth the wait.

Be of good cheer!