What rubbish, women aren't more into God than men, we are all equal in the eye's of god, No-one is better than the other, plus their are more men preaching the word of God in Churches then there are women. Women may read the word of God, like men do, and they may go to Church, like men do, women may listen to the Christian music, like men do. Women pray, like men do. The only comparison between men or women is Christ is the head of all, and men are the head of a women. Other then this, we are still equal.
I believe Raphael maybe one of the angels. Daniel 10:13, 10:21 12:1, talks the archangel Michael, Jude 9, and Revelation 12:7. Gabriel is mentioned in Daniel 8:16, Luke 1:19 Luke 1:26-38. And of course Lucifer the fallen angel. But no Raphael? He is only found in the Tobit, But you need to show me in scriptures where the angel Raphael is written? If Raphael isn't written in Scriptures, then I can say no-I don't believe in Him.
Yes one the angels with Michael, Catholic's believe Raphael was the angel stirring the water in John's gospel. The book of Tobit is only found in a Catholic bible. But not in the protestant bibles. The Queen of heaven-Mother of God is found in the Catholic bible's too. But not in the protestants. We don't pray to angels, nor to Mary. Matthew 6:6. Makes it quite clear who we pray too, and who we worship. I gather you are Catholic.
Jusmudi: Sorry 2 divert, bt hv u heard abt Angel Raphael? If yes, were in bible did u com across dt name Angel Raphael
John 15:26 "But when the helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of ME. One question that should be asked, Since Jehovah is the One God, and Jesus is the One Lord, Does this mean that Jehovah isn't the one Lord? Luke 10:21 "I thank you Father lord of heaven and earth. Jehovah Witnesses only believe in one God? But refuse to believe the Holy Spirit is God. Acts 5:3-4, Psalm 139:7-8, 1 Corinthians 2:10-11. The Holy Spirit is identified as a Person by John, using in the Greek masculine {ekeinos} InJohn 16:13"The Holy Spirit is presented as a personal being with a self-identify different from both the Father and the Son. As the Father and Jesus His distinction when speaking of Him, the Holy Spirit says separate Barnabas and Saul to Me. Acts 13:2 "As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, "Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them. The JW's believe the Holy Spirit is not God, but an active force? An active force can't speak, but a person can, the Holy Spirit said now separate Barnabas and Saul to Me. Its even written in the New World Translation. So which is it, the Spirit is a active force, or He is a person like Jesus was.
The bible doesn't say the angels pray for us, and the reason is because, One far greater than the angels already is praying for us, the Lord Jesus Christ. He alone is the divine Son of God, who sits in heaven interceding for us, {Hebrews 7:25} is your faith and trust in Him, both for today and eternity? Are you Catholic-or are you a JW? If you are a Jehovah Witness this is what Rothschild had told the people about angels. Watch this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5JnngqQYvc
1. Can you see where it says " from now on"? Does this not tell you that jesus was not sitting there before?
2. Can you also read the part that says " the son of man will be seated at the right hand of almighty God? This tells you that jesus is not almighty God, but a God that is subjected to the almighty God. Sitting at the right hand of God should tell you that jesus is not that same God that he is seated at the right hand of.
3. Now let's see if jesus was instructed to sit at the right hand or not
Ps 110:1 Of David. A melody. Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.” King James Bible A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Matt 22:44 King James Bible The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Heb 1:3 King James Bible But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
So who is the God that told jesus to sit at his right hand? Answer : jehovah. Who is the God of jesus? The father!
The father instructed jesus to sit at his right hand, jesus did not just sit there on his own, he said "he will be seated there" cus of the assurance giving to him by his God and father despite facing death.
That is why Stevens vision is accurate when he said the following :
Acts 7:55,56 [b]But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Hope the holy spirit in you will help you see jesus not as God , but as someone sitting at the right hand of God. Jesus is not the almighty God, he was instructed by the almighty God to sit at his right hand.
Non of the scriptures you quoted ever said jesus had two natures .
But first let's start from the first verse. Jesus said the father is greater than him. This statement is true at all point in time, when he was in heaven with the father, when he came to earth and when he returned to heaven, he has always subjected himself to the father, doing the fathers will and receiving instructions from the father.
Did jesus have 2 natures while on earth? No .
When jesus was in heaven, he had that divine nature, but he left that nature and took the nature of man, he did not have both natures at the same time while on earth. Why do we believe this? The scriptures say: Phil 2 :7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
You can not be nothing if you are taking on a human nature while still having ur divine nature.
Some translations even use " emptied" to signify the complete change in nature.
Verse 8 says: "And being found in fashion as a man,.....
Note it did not say being found in fashion as a man and God. Jesus was now a man, flesh and blood.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Notice that john said jesus was made flesh, not that he had flesh or added flesh to his divine nature.
Some translations say he " became flesh!" .
The fact that jesus became flesh caused the writer of heb to record what is found at heb 2 :9.
Now some few things for you and everyone to consider. 1. If jesus had two natures, can you give an example of what his divine nature did while on earth? 2. When jesus died according to heb 2:9 did his divine nature die too, did God die? 3. Jesus is in heaven now, does he still have the two natures ? As in , does he still have the slaves nature with the divine nature? If he does, then its safe to say the father is still greater than jesus cus that's the reason why some say jesus said the father is greater than him.
If he does not, can you now tell us when he removed/left the flesh/slave/human form?
When on earth, jesus at no time said he was God. No verse can you find in the scriptures where jesus himself said so. But numerous occassions abound where he said he is the son of man.
You quoted Col 2:9 , I hope you know that. Jesus had that divine quality cus it pleased the father that such quality dwell in him .
Col 1:19 King James Bible For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Another good comparison from you again . Is the husband and wife same person despite having same nature? No The jesus is not God cus he has the same nature with God. Likewise the disciples will not become God when they partake
Is the husband and wife equal despite becoming one flesh? No. Likewise one cannot say jesus is equal to the father despite being one with father.
The scriptures emphasised the wife subjection to the husband despite being one, despite being same nature. The husband is the head of the wife.
Like wise, the scriptures emphasized the subjection of jesus to his God and father despite jesus being in the same nature with God, despite being one. The scriptures let us know that the head of jesus is God and that the father is the God of jesus .
"for he(1st person) hath put all things under his(2nd person) feet. But when he(1st p.) saith, all things are put under him(2nd p.), it is manifest that he(1st p.) is excepted, which did put all things under him(2nd p.). And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Note: up to this moment you have still not, using any translations, told us ur view on the scriptures I posted
If the many scriptures are to much for you' to keep up with the times, Then try these>Matthew 17:21 Acts 8:37 Matthew 18:11 And I don't want you to bring up any other scriptures, that sounds like these scriptures missing from your bible. Just explain to me, why the bibles had removed them. I am all ears to the truth. Will you watch the video. It's really important for you to tell me, who the names of the authors are? Don't judge the video by it's cover watch the inside of the video. I have seen the many so called bibles myself, old Satan is really getting his hands dirty this time, Christians need to keep on seeking the word of God, their will be a time, no-man will be able to seek the truth about Christ, not even your bible will be useful, and that holds little information about the truth. This is good news, Christ is coming back sooner, Jesus said: My sheep knows My voice, This is why you need to watch the video, learn the ins and outs about yourselves, watching the video will blow your mind, I won't tell another JW, if you don't tell, they don't have to know. Without you telling me, I would know. Watch the video
dolphinheart: They did not remove any verse from the bible. If you truly believe that they did, please list just two or three for starters, do not lift all from a webpage and dump it here, let me and you examine it in not too cumbersome manner. So list three verses for starters. I will show you the many bible translations that also do not have such verses in their versions. I will also tell you why you can't find such verses in their translations.
What do you want to do with the name of the authors? Their work is easy to access and examined to see if they are right or wrong. I look at what you have done not who you are.
I have got to say you are right about the New international version bible, The old international version is the one to keep. I will check up those other bibles you mention and see who else is being deceived. I advise we Christians should study the word, before they try to take all the scriptures away from us, soon that time will come, once they get rid off the believers in Christ, their will be no-one left to preach the gospel, and we can't rely on you. You have another gospel. Don't forget watch that great video I have sent you. How cool does this sound, we will meet the lord in the air, in no time just with a blink of an eye.
Attacking me wunt help you. Attacking me wunt make you right. If you have the holy spirit, then tell us ur understanding of the scriptures posted in my reply to you. If you have the holy spirit, show humility.
The comparing of translations only exist in your mind, and its affecting your understanding of the scriptures thereby making you refuse to explain scriptures posted to you either from the nwt or kjv.
You have an ability, the ability to create false stories and statement without backup.
Even as you falsely think I wrote a list of false doctrines from the kjv, u refuse to show how those verses are true and thus proving me wrong. You are even afraid to quote some of those verses when you respond to my post.
You have just shown again that you know little about the scriptures and translations.
You emphasized that the nwt does not translate 1 john 5:7 as the kjv does. Yet you refuse to take note that the following translations also do not translate that verse the same way the kjv did.
1. New International Version 2. New Living Translation 3. English Standard Version 4. Berean Study Bible 5. Berean Literal Bible 6. New American Standard Bible 7. Holman Christian Standard Bible 8. International Standard Version 9. NET Bible 10. Aramaic Bible in Plain English 11. GOD'S WORD® Translation 12. New American Standard 1977 13. American Standard Version 14. Darby Bible Translation 15. English Revised Version 16. Weymouth New Testament 17. World English Bible 18. NWT
....and many more.
Note, most of these translators surpport trinity and yet they do not add the words you quoted on that verse.
I'm surprised you did not add 1 ti 3:16 to the verses you have issues with .at least kjv translated it thus:
King James Bible And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Ill ask you, is the kjv right with that translation? And why do most translators that surpport trinity translate that verse differently.
Ill advise you to go and ask your religious leaders about those verses before you reply.
At least add prove to support these lies na.
Again ill post below the points you refuse to talk about in my post.
1. Look at your quote of john 17:3 again tell us if you deliberately misquoted the verse or it was just a mistake you made. I made effort to quote the verse for you again, and you are still refusing to tell us ur understanding of the verse.
2. Be looking for author while refusing to address the fact that you removed Gods name from the bible verse you quoted.
1. No you have not, you only quoted 2 translations without telling us why one person called himself the God of another . "You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions"
2. I dnt know if its deliberate or a mistake,*(talking about what you posted on john 17:3) but these is what is recorded in john 17:3 "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." The kjv translated it thus : And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. So I dnt know which verse you quoted, but more painful is the fact that you refuse to tell us ur understanding of any of them(both the john 17:3 you quoted and the one I quoted)
3.I , you , everyone reading this thread can see that you have once again refused to explain or give ur understanding of that verse. Quoting it completely is now even hard for you to do. John 20:17 King James Bible Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
4.Jesus was giving obeisance as the bible and Jesus has always indicated that it is only the father, jehovah that must be worshiped. Note the fact that it is God, the father, the God of Jesus, the only true God that authorised this obeisance. Jesus is not the true God, not the almighty God, not equal to the almighty God, not the father.
5. Another 2 verses to consider : 1 pet 1:3 King James Bible "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his (to show that God is a person) abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." Nwt 1 cor 15 :24 "Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power."
This is the prove that is travelling around our nations today. And where I got this one from, theirs plenty more. After reading about the JW's else where, and of course I have asked questions, the informations I have learnt, the JW's won't allow their followers to watch video's or read articles that's written outside your church. So here's the evidence you asked for, if you are willing to watch them-it could save your life. Only if you are willing, this video will show you the in's and outs, to the religion you stand for.
You have also refused to tell us viewers why did the JW's take out so many scriptures from the bible. You also have refused to answer what was the name of the author who wrote the New World Translation bible from the Greek language to English. You also refuse to listen to any truth about Christ. You have even named some scriptures to be false doctrines. I have asked you to rewrite the scriptures, but you are refusing to answer. You don't understand how my mind works, only because you don't understand the word of God. Jesus came here to die for the people, the bible was written to help us understand the scriptures about Him, which makes it difficult for you, You don't even have a bible, but a book that tells you that Jesus isn't God in the flesh.
Another way to say " I dnt have proof". Let us know when the proof comes back to visit you.
You have the freedom to formulate anything with your mind, but note that when you express it and post it, it gives people an understanding of how your mind works. An attempt to link things without proof shows others how desperate you are.
Thank you, now can you tell us your understanding of the scriptures I quoted.?
So the scriptures was not written to equip us for every good work?
Big difference between us, I prefer to first know if the story I'm reading is true or false. One can understand a false story, but it does not make the story true.
And yet you refused to explained why the many translations I listed do not have that story in 1 john 5:7
dolphinheart: How on earth can I twist words that you did not write! If you did not write it, then they are not your words, and thus can't be twisted.!
Thank you.
I'm still waiting for the first answer or your understanding of the scriptures quoted.
Good, one starts from somewhere, jesus has a God , now do you know who that God is?
Luke 22:69 "But from now on the son of man will be seated at the right hand of the almighty God. Jesus wasn't instructed to sit on God's right side, it was His place to sit there.
Quote> and yet you refuse to except that the Father was greater then Jesus. John 14:28 "Jesus said the Father was greater then He, not because Jesus is not God, but because Jesus was also a man, and as a man , He was in a lower position. He was made' for a little while, lower then the angels.{Hebrews 2:9} {Philippians 2:5-8} It says that Jesus emptied Himself taken a form of a bond servant and being made in the likeness of men... Jesus has two natures: divine and human, Jesus was not denying that He was God He was merely acknowledging the fact that He was also a man. Jesus is both God and man, as a man He was in a lessor position than the Father because He had added to Himself human nature. Colossians 2:9 "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the God head bodily. {And was under the law} Galatians 4:4 "But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law. {He became a man to die for the people}
A comparison of difference of position can be found in a marriage relationship. Biblically a husband is greater in position and authority then His wife. "He" is her head {Ephesians 5:23} but he is no different in nature, and he is not better then she. They share the same nature being human, and they work together by commitment to the Lord.
I have even quoted some of those scriptures from the kjv, you still refused to quote it, or tell us ur view or understanding of those scriptures . Anyone serious about talking about the scriptures can, if he prefers to use his own translations ,quote (using his bible )the verses metioned.
You dnt like the nwt, then use the kjv to explain, give us your understanding of the scriptures I've been quoting.
I'm beginning to understand that you know little about the doctrine you are supporting.
You dnt know the trinity. You say you showed me the kjv, yet you refused to tell ur understanding of scriptures quoted from the kjv.
You believe the scriptures, yet you refuse to accept that jesus has a God! You refuse to accept that the God of jesus is the father! You read the scriptures, yet you refuse to accept that the father is greater than jesus.
You say jesus is God, yet you see where the scriptures tell you that he was instructed to sit at the right hand of the most high.
I corrected you about the issue of false doctrine you tried to raise. Now , pls go back to that post and tell us ur understand of the scriptures quoted there using any translation you prefer .
Do you feel you are alone, that every time someone else answers you, who are not JW's you seem to get yourself all upset, listen we can only give you the truth about Christ because we see Christ as we believe Him to be. Sharing the word of God to you, brings out the worst in you, you come across very demanding, and we can feel the anger rising up in you. Does the truth frighten you?
dolphinheart: If by "resurrection" you mean the resurrection of jesus, and if "those who where disobedient" mean humans who where disobedient, the answer is No they where not alive.
So can uou address the points I bought out in my post.? Remember I numbered them.
Your a very demanding, and rude of course, I see you like twisting words I have never written, well done good and faithful servant. Quote these scriptures again-and again I will give you the right answers. Not only does Jesus have a God, He is God, John 1:1, 1 John 5:7, its you and your bible that doesn't believe.
I have even quoted some of those scriptures from the kjv, you still refused to quote it, or tell us ur view or understanding of those scriptures . Anyone serious about talking about the scriptures can, if he prefers to use his own translations ,quote (using his bible )the verses metioned.
You dnt like the nwt, then use the kjv to explain, give us your understanding of the scriptures I've been quoting.
I'm beginning to understand that you know little about the doctrine you are supporting.
You dnt know the trinity. You say you showed me the kjv, yet you refused to tell ur understanding of scriptures quoted from the kjv.
You believe the scriptures, yet you refuse to accept that jesus has a God! You refuse to accept that the God of jesus is the father! You read the scriptures, yet you refuse to accept that the father is greater than jesus.
You say jesus is God, yet you see where the scriptures tell you that he was instructed to sit at the right hand of the most high.
I corrected you about the issue of false doctrine you tried to raise. Now , pls go back to that post and tell us ur understand of the scriptures quoted there using any translation you prefer .
The proof has travelled across our nations, where and who started your Church, your Church had come from the Masons, the Masons believe Lucifer and Jesus are the same kind, and you believe Jesus is the archangel, God made His angels to be spirits. No-one is attacking you, but just sometimes people need to hear the truth, and if I was you, which I am not, I would let my fingers do the walking and start searching for this truth, I don't care if you are an elder or a beginner, you have time to be saved.
The bible was only written because Christ came into the world to save sinners, it was man who have decided to refuse Christ against themselves and those around them. When I read a book, I prefer to read one with a story, one that's tells it well. When I read 1 John 5:7 "In the King James, I found the bible explains the scripture well enough for me to know the truth about Christ. I prefer to understand the story, then waste my time trying to figure it out. I HAVE SEEN THE EVIDENCE IN YOURSELF, BECAUSE YOUR BIBLE DOESN'T EXPLAIN THE TRUTH ABOUT CHRIST, YOU JUST CAN'T BELIEVE THE FATHER THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE ONE. So It's important to have a full version of the scriptures, then just having half of them, and like your bible they have completely removed them, or they have twisted the truth, who Christ is, leaving the people to figure it out for themselves.
Attacking me wunt help you. Attacking me wunt make you right. If you have the holy spirit, then tell us ur understanding of the scriptures posted in my reply to you. If you have the holy spirit, show humility.
The comparing of translations only exist in your mind, and its affecting your understanding of the scriptures thereby making you refuse to explain scriptures posted to you either from the nwt or kjv.
You have an ability, the ability to create false stories and statement without backup.
Even as you falsely think I wrote a list of false doctrines from the kjv, u refuse to show how those verses are true and thus proving me wrong. You are even afraid to quote some of those verses when you respond to my post.
You have just shown again that you know little about the scriptures and translations.
You emphasized that the nwt does not translate 1 john 5:7 as the kjv does. Yet you refuse to take note that the following translations also do not translate that verse the same way the kjv did.
1. New International Version 2. New Living Translation 3. English Standard Version 4. Berean Study Bible 5. Berean Literal Bible 6. New American Standard Bible 7. Holman Christian Standard Bible 8. International Standard Version 9. NET Bible 10. Aramaic Bible in Plain English 11. GOD'S WORD® Translation 12. New American Standard 1977 13. American Standard Version 14. Darby Bible Translation 15. English Revised Version 16. Weymouth New Testament 17. World English Bible 18. NWT
....and many more.
Note, most of these translators surpport trinity and yet they do not add the words you quoted on that verse.
I'm surprised you did not add 1 ti 3:16 to the verses you have issues with .at least kjv translated it thus:
King James Bible And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Ill ask you, is the kjv right with that translation? And why do most translators that surpport trinity translate that verse differently.
Ill advise you to go and ask your religious leaders about those verses before you reply.
At least add prove to support these lies na.
Again ill post below the points you refuse to talk about in my post.
1. Look at your quote of john 17:3 again tell us if you deliberately misquoted the verse or it was just a mistake you made. I made effort to quote the verse for you again, and you are still refusing to tell us ur understanding of the verse.
2. Be looking for author while refusing to address the fact that you removed Gods name from the bible verse you quoted.
1. No you have not, you only quoted 2 translations without telling us why one person called himself the God of another . "You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions"
2. I dnt know if its deliberate or a mistake,*(talking about what you posted on john 17:3) but these is what is recorded in john 17:3 "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." The kjv translated it thus : And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. So I dnt know which verse you quoted, but more painful is the fact that you refuse to tell us ur understanding of any of them(both the john 17:3 you quoted and the one I quoted)
3.I , you , everyone reading this thread can see that you have once again refused to explain or give ur understanding of that verse. Quoting it completely is now even hard for you to do. John 20:17 King James Bible Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
4.Jesus was giving obeisance as the bible and Jesus has always indicated that it is only the father, jehovah that must be worshiped. Note the fact that it is God, the father, the God of Jesus, the only true God that authorised this obeisance. Jesus is not the true God, not the almighty God, not equal to the almighty God, not the father.
5. Another 2 verses to consider : 1 pet 1:3 King James Bible "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his (to show that God is a person) abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." Nwt 1 cor 15 :24 "Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power."
Quote>I'm just beginning to understand why its hard to read your post most times. {I have a very good reason for you, because you don't understand the word of God} Your silly argument is starting to bore me, only a JW can answer to your scriptures, as proven your scriptures don't match up to the word of God, the New World Translation has half truth scriptures or they have been Completely removed from the bible, and you expect me to answer your bible for you. I have given you the King James version, and you don't understand that, I can't pull a rabbit out of a hat, and I am not interested to learn about your bible, I am not looking for half truths or missing truths. I believe in the full truth, I am a Born again Christian, I love whom I worship, I believe Jesus Christ is Lord, I believe God had raised Him from the dead. I also believed when Jesus said He will raise Himself up in three days, I believed. I also believe in all the scriptures written in the bible. I believe that the trinity of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are One. So if you are looking for people to answer your JW translation for you, you need to speak with your own kind.
dolphinheart: I'm just beginning to understand why its hard to read your post mostimes. The statement "false doctrine" is in reference to your post above that statement.
The post was posted 10:48 PM on Jan 11. You made a doctrinal statement and I told you it was false, citing several scriptures to back up the fact that your doctrine is false.
You are here talking about the statement " false doctrine" and one again refused to give ur view on the scriptures quoted in the post.
Pls go back to that post and tell us ur understand of the scriptures quoted there.
What you aren't understanding is "your dead spiritually, you have no spirit living inside you, you don't recognize the scriptures, not only myself but I am sure many who have written to you, have shared the bible to you, and still' you can't see the word sitting in front of you. You are like the dead trying to live. The blind don't see, what the blind don't know. You are comparing the New World Translation with the King James, which makes this conversation difficult. I have given you the answers from the King James, and you keep on rebuking the word of God, you have even wrote a list of false doctrines, you believe are written from the King James, are not correct. The authors who wrote your bible have either removed or have twisted bible scriptures, John 1:1 is a good example. Acts 8:37 is another good example. Matthew 17:21 is missing, Matthew 18:11 is also missing, Matthew 23:14. Mark 7:16, 9:44, 9:46, 11:2615:28. Mark 16:9-20 is totally missing. Luke 17:36, 23:17. John 5:4, 7:53, 8:11. Acts 8:37, 15:34,24:7, 28:29. Romans 16:24. Colossians 1:2, 2:2. 1 John 5:13, Revelation 1:11, 2:15, 21:24. 1 John 5:7 Vitally important phase COMPLETELY removed "in the Jehovah Witnesses "New World Translation" says, "For are three witness bearers. What does the real bible say? "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father the word and the Holy Ghost. And these three are One. This is one of the greatest verses testifying of the trinity. This is why the Jehovah Witnesses leave it out. They do not believe in the trinity and they do not believe that Jesus is God. So you can see, no-one in their right mind will seriously listen to you preach your bible, Its proven facts your bible is a lie from the beginning, and it's people like you who have been deceived by this lie. The New World Translation was written back in 1872 by Charles Russell who was a 33 Rd degree Freemason. Russell didn't leave the Masons until he had died, Masons don"t believe any truth concerning Christ. Matter of fact the Masons believe that Lucifer is the same as Jesus Christ. The same as the JW's believe, Jesus is the archangel, both Lucifer and Michael are angels. And God made the angels Spirits. So if you are worried what people will think about me, don't be? I believe they are more interested in hearing the truth.
Pls show where i said anything about the bold above. I've deliberately not said anything cus I see you want to use it to change the discussion and not comment or tell us ur understanding of the verses I've been posting and the explanations I've been giving. That I've not made mention of it does not mean I'm denying it, there is a big difference between the two.
Did you read what you posted at all. Pls wait till I lie first ok, wonder how you came about the view that I'm willing to lie!
Where did I say that o! Dnt you read a post before commenting on it!
Look at your quote of john 17:3 again tell us if you deliberately misquoted the verse or it was just a mistake you made.
I made effort to quote the verse for you again, and you are still refusing to tell us ur understanding of the verse.
Frivolous statements wunt help.
Be looking for author while refusing to address the fact that you removed Gods name from the bible verse you quoted.
Again ill post below, the parts of my post you refuse to address :
1. No you have not, you only quoted 2 translations without telling us why one person called himself the God of another . "You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions"
2. I dnt know if its deliberate or a mistake,*(talking about what you posted on john 17:3) but these is what is recorded in john 17:3 "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." The kjv translated it thus : And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. So I dnt know which verse you quoted, but more painful is the fact that you refuse to tell us ur understanding of any of them(both the john 17:3 you quoted and the one I quoted)
3.I , you , everyone reading this thread can see that you have once again refused to explain or give ur understanding of that verse. Quoting it completely is now even hard for you to do. John 20:17 King James Bible Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
4.Jesus was giving obeisance as the bible and Jesus has always indicated that it is only the father, jehovah that must be worshiped. Note the fact that it is God, the father, the God of Jesus, the only true God that authorised this obeisance. Jesus is not the true God, not the almighty God, not equal to the almighty God, not the father.
5. Another 2 verses to consider : 1 pet 1:3 King James Bible "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his (to show that God is a person) abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." Nwt 1 cor 15 :24 "Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power."
Here it is? you wrote it under the false doctrine section. @ dolphinheart>False doctrine. 1 cor 8:6 ...we have but one God , the father.
John 17 :3 ...... The only true God.....
Eph 4:6 ...one God and father of all.
John 20:17said Jesus called the father his God and our God. Or maybe you mean the JW's have twisted these scriptures to make them sound, only to your likings?
You yourself have said it: " john was talking" . To give you a glimpse of who the author of the inspired scriptures is read rev 1:1
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John.
It seems you are mistaken about the john we are talking about.
God is spirit and God came down like a dove, yes you can't explain who is talking in heaven.
A term that has no scriptural backup . a co existence and co- eternal that has no direct reference in the scriptures.
You quote scriptures with no explanations. Is God talking to himself? Who are the others he is talking to? Are they Gods too?
So who did adam see? The father, jesus or the holy spirit . Is the person of jesus also the person called the father? If they are not the same person, which of them did adam see?
I dnt know which bible translation you use, but all I've read never said adam saw Lord God walking in the garden.
Second, can you tell me why you decided not to use the original word for Gods name in that verse but prefer to use "lord".
You have joined those who have deliberately removed the name of God so that their false doctrine can seem to fit the scriptures. Unless you can prove that the Tetragrammaton in that verse Means "Lord ", ur explanation shows a desperate attempt at using the removal of Gods name to support a false doctrine. Anyone who has doubt on what I'm saying can ask him to explain such removal.
Dnt add to the verse pls, the underlined is not part of the scriptures .
Therefore jesus is not God.
Same as all other angelic creatures in heaven, yet they are not God.
False doctrine. 1 cor 8:6 ...we have but one God , the father.
John 17 :3 ...... The only true God.....
Eph 4:6 ...one God and father of all.
John 20:17said jesus called the father his God and our God.
So jesus is not God cus he is in the father and the father in him, just as the disciples dnt become God cus they are in God and jesus. Gods spirit coming into the disciples does not make jesus God same as the spirit coming into the disciples does not make them God . Who commands the holy spirit, jesus or God? The scriptures shows that jesus asks from the holy spirit from the father. I wonder why all commands, authority, teachings, power, knowledge of future events and actions comes from the father! Maybe because he is the only true God!, the almighty!
You have shown again that you will not address the scriptures mentioned earlier which shows you who our God is and his relationship with jesus. Though I know you wunt address them, but let me add one more . Heb 9:24 For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, so that he(jesus/first person) now appears before God(the father/
Charles Russell was the founder of the Jehovah Witnesses was a 33 rd degree Mason, who was the author around 1874, than came Fred Franz born in 1893, later he attended Uni in Cincinnati from the 9th month 1911 to the 4th month in 1914, studying Greek, but not biblical Greek,and he had no formal instructions in Hebrew. Fred Franz converted back to Russell in 1913-1915. Fred Franz also was one to translated His version from Greek to a English version, removing and re-wording scriptures from the New World Translation. Fred Franz later went to Bethel in 1920 he became president in 1977 with the Jehovah Witnesses. It was believed by words say, by the Jehovah Witnesses that Fred Franz Was offered "A" Roades scholarship. But that was only word say. Other authors were Nathan Horr, Milton Henchel, George Dgangas, A.D. schroder, None were found with any Qualifications in the Greek language nor having the Hebrew language. And these are the authors who had started the JW's back then.
In Greek>John 1:1 En arche en lo logos en pros ton theon, kai theos en ho logos. In English>John 1:1 In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. Since the Jehovah witnesses deny that Jesus is God in the flesh, they must change John 1:1. The NWT renders John 1:1 In {the} Beginning the word was and the word was with God and the word was a god. Lets" take a look what the authentic New Testament Greek scholars say about this verse. Dr. Julius R Mantey {who is even recognized by the Watchtower as a Greek scholar since they quoted His book on page 1158 of their Kingdom Interlinear Translation}calls the Watchtower translation of John 1:1 "A grossly misleading translation. It is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1:1 'the Word was a god. But with all the scholars in the world, so far we know none has translated this verse as Jehovah witnesses have done.
Dr. Julius R Mantey was disturbed because they {the Watchtower} has misquoted me in support of their translation. He called their attention to the fact that the hole body of the New Testament was against their view. Throughout the New Testament Jesus is glorified and magnified-yet they were denigrating Him and making Him into a little god of pagan concept. He said he believes its a terrible thing that people are to be deceived and go into eternity lost, forever lost because someone deliberately misled them by distorting the scripture!.., Ninety nine percent of the scholars of the world who know Greek and who have helped translate the bible,are in disagreement with the Jehovah Witnesses. People who are looking for the truth, ought to know what the majority of the scholars really believe. They should not allow themselves to be misled by the Jehovah Witnesses and end up in Hell.
Its no good denying what the JW's believe in. Jesus is the archangel and God is a person, you have said it yourself. Let the hole world see you are even willing to lie against your own religion, to prove what? That you don't believe in Christ. You have already written the bible has false doctrines, now you are saying that John 17:3 is either deliberate or a mistake. So how can anyone take you seriously. Matter of fact none of your scriptures from the New World Translation bible match up with the word of God. Plus you have refused to answer my questions? what was the name of the author who translated your bible from Greek to English?
Good you are now trying to answer for him since he can't, or has refused to give us his understanding of the scriptures mentioned to him.
Let's look at what you have to say.
No you have not, you only quoted 2 translations without telling us why one person called himself the God of another .
"You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions"
I dnt know if its deliberate or a mistake, but these is what is recorded in john 17:3
"This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ."
The kjv translated it thus : And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
So I dnt know which verse you quoted, but more painful is the fact that you refuse to tell us ur understanding of any of them(both the john 17:3 you quoted and the one I quoted)
I , you , everyone reading this thread can see that you have once again refused to explain or give ur understanding of that verse. Quoting it completely is now even hard for you to do.
John 20:17
King James Bible Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Its only you that can explain what you posted. Jesus was giving obeisance as the bible and jesus has always indicated that it is only the father, jehovah that must be worshiped. Note the fact that it is God, the father, the God of jesus, the only true God that authorised this obeisance. Jesus is not the true God, not the almighty God, not equal to the almighty God, not the father.
Another 2 verses to consider :
1 pet 1:3 King James Bible "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his(to show that God is a person) abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."
Nwt 1 cor 15 :24 "Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power."
Wait you have John 17:1-3 under the false doctrine section, as well as 1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:6, John 20:17 and now you are using John 17 to back up your argument..
dolphinheart: The bible has called jesus a god, and I'm not saying it has not. But the bible has also told me on several occasions that jesus has a God. A god who sent him, commands him, anointed him and told him what to do. Jesus also confirms these by telling us who that God is.
John 17:1-3 [b]Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you, just as you have given him authority over all flesh, so that he may give everlasting life to all those whom you have given to him. This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
Heb 1:3-6(note the underlined and comment on it) [b]He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, (a)he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. So he has (b)become better than the angels to the extent that (c)he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs. For example, to which one of the angels did God ever say: (d)“You are my son; today I have become your father”? And again: “I will become his father, and he will become my son”? But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him.”.
(a) jesus is not the majesty on high, the majesty on high instructed him to sit at his right side. Therefore jesus is not almighty God or has equal authority with almighty God. Jesus sat there only after he should loyalty to the point of death on earth.
(b)jesus BECAME better than the angels. Unless we are in the same group or are competing over something. One cannot be said to become better than the other. Note the verse did not say jesus has been better but became better! If you feel I'm wrong , please tell us ur understanding of jesus became better than the angels.
(c) jesus inherited a name more excellent than the angels. These shows that their was a time jesus did not have that name. Who did jesus inherit the name from. It must surely be from someone superior to him.
(d)when was the statement made? And the answer to that question is : jesus Christ!.
Ex 20:2-5 [b]“I am Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You must not have any other gods besides me. “You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth. You must not bow down to them nor be enticed to serve them, for I, Jehovah your God, am a God who requires exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation of those who hate me,....
Is jesus jehovah? No
John 4:21,22,34 Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. Jesus said to them: “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work
Did you see above who jesus called the God that the Jews know and worship? The one who told them to worship only him ? The father.
Did jesus sought worship giving to the father ?
John 4:8 In reply Jesus said to him: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”
Matt 2:1-2: pagan worshipers, astrologers, Magi from the east came to meet jesus, and you follow their practices. Well the verses did not tell us that the isrealites(shepherds) who worship God did the same thing. Dnt know why you added them.
Another verse to consider :
1 cor 11 :3 But I want you(brocab) to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God..
Christianity Etc › Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by brocab: 11:45pm On Jan 15, 2016*. Modified: 12:37am On Jan 16, 2016
