₦airaland Forum

If you think monies the answer in loving God, then of course you will believe you can buy your way into heaven.
And why did Jesus make that new covenant? Because he found fault with the old one, think about it, Abram paid a tithe that didn't belong to him? Jacob made a promised to God he will pay a tithe, not because it was an order from the top..
The Levi Priesthood ripped of God, every year, the Pharisees not only collecting the tithes and offerings but more, selling the merchandise on temple grounds that didn't belong to them.
This is the message the Lord gave to the Levi Priesthood-Will a man rob God-and yet you have robbed Me, in what way have we robbed you- in tithes and offerings. They were selling the stocks crops, and merchandise on temple grounds, the farmers had tithed.
If God wanted tithes and offerings to be in finances he would have given us that covenant to do so.
But He didn't.
You would be only lying to yourself if you don't pray to God for the extra, 100 fold money back guarantee. Many tithers believe tithing is just a resource to give back to God , as everything belongs to him in the first place.
God didn't give to take it away from you, God isn't an Indian giver, he gives us the things we need, before we ask him.
So don't tell me I have to tithe to retrieve my reward...

Dan1cole:
And who told you I pray for a money back guarantee? That's not tithing; You might as well call it pawning, investing or gambling and so on... Such persons simply want to take advantage of God.
But then, tithing is a demonstration of your love to God, that you can actually honor Him with your finance. It not an obligation, nor a law (like I said before), it's a covenant.
And also, there's no crime being expectant to enjoy the benefits of something, as long as it is done rightly.

Then we will give it to God, not to you, Matthew 25:35, For I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; "I had no cloths and you cloth Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in Prison and you came to Me.
This is the truth about tithing. bring all your tithes crops stocks and merchandise into the storehouse, so my people will be looked after and fed...

Dan1cole:
First of all, my names are Daniel Williams; I am proudly a Christian and a unique gospel writer @ Bible-Based Sermons Blog >> [www.bbsermons.org]. I have heard alot of people talk falsely about tithing, it's reasons and benefits. I've heard people say stuffs like, "tithing was deviced to enrich churches and pastors", which is absoulutely false; and some others say, "tithing is of the old testament and it's not applicable to new testament believers, because Jesus never spoke of it".
But nevertheless, today, I have taken the liberty to write this article, stating five (5) key reasons why you should be a tither (if you are not one already).
And I believe that although few may still disagree with me on these five reasons, and while some retarded ones may even insult me for no good reason; I will definitely have made a point by the end of this article.
So then, let's just get to it ...

1. Tithing Is The First Command God Ever Gave To Man. Genesis 2:15-17

Now, looking at the above stated scripture, God, after creation and putting man into the garden, told man to eat of every tree in the garden, except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Which means man was also permitted to eat from the tree of life.
But then man disobeyed God's command and ate from it; man robbed God, which brought man under a curse.
Now, my point is that, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil belonged to God (it was His property and not man's), and respecting God's command and not eating from that particular tree was simply man paying tithe. The tree was man's tithe and as we all know tithe belongs to God and not to us (just like that tree). And when you eat your tithe instead of honouring God with it, you become a God robber and you come under a curse (which was what happened to Adam & Eve).
So tithing is the first command, and commands are meant to be obeyed.

2. Tithing Commands Durable Wealth.

Looking at the life of Abraham, we all know that he was exceedingly blessed, or as the scriptures says, "he was blessed in all things"; he was exceedingly prosperous. And then, according to scriptures, Isaac his son was more wealthier, to the extent of being envied by an entire nation, and then Jacob (aka Israel) was much more wealthier.
Now, these three men mentioned above were devoted tithers. They (Isaac and Jacob) partook in the covenant that Abraham (their father) entered and practiced with God, which caused them to attain his (Abraham's) kind of results, and even surpassed him. So until you are a tither, (believe me when I say) you cannot command durable wealth that'll even affect your generation after you.

3. Tithing Secures Your Life & Everything Concerning You.

One thing tithing does, according to what God says in Malachi 3; He says, "I will rebuke the devourer for your sake, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground".
Many of us are always binding and casting the devil; we are constantly rebuking & resisting the devil from our lives and affairs (which is good). But then, 'through knowledge is power developed, and through obedience is prosperity and success attained'. Now, let me ask you a kinda retorical question; 'To be in the safe zone and to be in the warzone with protection. Which is better?' i believe definitely to be in the safe zone is better.
So, when you are a faithful tither, God secures everything about you. Hence, you don't need to constantly rebuke the devil; He automatically does that for you. But then, I'm not saying you shouldn't pray as a result of that. But when you are a tither, you don't bother yourself about the devil that much.

4. Tithing Provokes A Rain Of Divine Ideas.

A wise man once said, "One idea from God, is capable of turning around a lifetime of captivity."
Now, the man Jacob never attended a technical college, nor did he take a university course on livestock keeping, but he was the first person to ever own and manage a livestock rearing ranch. According to scriptures, he (Jacob) invented new ways to feed and take care of his livestocks; he was creative.
So, when you are a tither, God says in Malachi 3 that He will open up the windows of heaven and pour out on you an overflow of blessings. That doesn't mean God is gonna rain money, gold & silver down from heaven, no! It simply means that He (God) will inspire you with divine ideas & give you wisdom to create wealth. Just like He did with Jacob.

5. Tithing Makes You Delightful And Envied.

According to scriptures, Isaac was so wealthy that he was envied by an entire nation. Everything about Isaac was delightsome, which is a fulfillment of the saying "All nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land."
So, unless you are a tither, you cannot be a full partaker of the 'Abraham blessing', whereby God said "I will bless you, and you will be a blessing."

In conclusion, I want to stress that although Jesus never talked about tithing; in God's standards, once a covenant is reached, it stands until the end of time; and tithing is an everlasting covenant.
Have you ever wondered why God says "return unto Me" (in Malachi 3)? It's because He provided the money for you and the tithe belongs to Him and not you (because the only thing you can return is something given to you in the first place). So eating your tithe (and not honoring God with it) is as simple as stealing from God, which makes you a God robber.
People nowadays are willing to 'invest' (as they tend to term it) their money in sports betting and all that; they trust that 'investing' as little as #200 (more or less) can earn them thousands and sometimes hundreds of thousands; they trust the betting system to multiply their so called 'investment', but they fail to trust God enough to even pay their tithe.
Look, tithing doesn't decrease you, but it increases you. It is your returning to God that will provoke Him to return back to you in double fold. When you are stingy with God when it comes to money, God will also be stingy with you when it comes to money.
Well, 'a word, they say, is enough for the wise'. And I believe I have made sense during the course of this article and I have made my point clear that there is nothing wrong with tithing and that it is for your benefit, (because God doesn't need your money; or have you not heard that the streets of heaven are paved with gold?
So be wise and stay wise.
Check people in the Kingdom that is at the top today, they all tithe, and they are all commanding durable wealth. People like E.Adeboye, D.Oyedepo, Mike Murdock, Joel Osteen, T.D Jakes, D.Ibiyeomie and so on (too numerous to mention)...
So if you want to be like them, or better their results, you gotta be a tither.
And lastly, remember what God says in Galatians 6:7, He says "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

Well I Thank you for your time, and may God bless you for reading...
Visit www.bbsermons.org for more Bible-Based articles.

Firstly we are not calling God a liar, no where near calling Him such.
But you as a tither is.
God gave you a command, bring all your tithes into the storehouse so my people maybe fed.
You are doing the opposite twisting words to suit yourselves, for the flame and monies, to a tithers needs.
You pray only to retrieve a money back guarantee.

Dan1cole:
I must say, you all make very convincing points. And to be honest, I love your arguements ...

But then, let me ask you this question.
So are you guys now saying that God is a liar? And that everything He said in Malachi 3 was just a hoax and nothing more? And that when He makes a promise and enters a covenant, He doesn't keep His word?

No insults pls; am just saying ... Because that's what ya'll are now implying...

He wasn't just a tither he was a giver, giving all from the spoils of war that didn't belong to him {stolen goods}

So how is it, when you tithers expect us to listen and tithe, you will use the story on Abram-using money as your resources, only in order that it's unscriptural in word and in truth.

God see's everything.
If you chose to disobey God's word-and you don't pay tithes the way He had written it, then at least bring your "Tithes" foods and merchandise into the storehouse, So My people will be fed....Feed Africa.

Dan1cole:
Have you actually read his story?
Yes! God blessed him, but he was a tither.

Yes you are a robber if you were a LEVI PRIEST back in those day's. Are you?

And didn't Jesus say go out into all the nations and preach the gospel, are you denying the truth in Christ-Have you not read the scriptures-in word and in truth. Are you disobeying the laws, Do you tithe, do you pay monies in tithing?
Do you read the scriptures, when God said: bring all your crops, stocks, into the storehouse, so maybe My People will be fed.
Are you a Jew, or are you a gentle Christian?

Quote if you don't tithe then kip it to urself.
Did the Lord not say spread the truth, and yet these persons are spreading the truth, and you say keep it to yourself.
Because you yourself are spreading lying wonders, about tithes and offerings...

davinero:
this is nice, you really took tym to write all dis? I am not a religious freak so I won't want to sound spiritual here. That same bible you studied said u shud not despise d battering of brethren, do you also know you are a robber if u don't pay tithe, read abt Stephen and the other deacons, Paul etc u'll know DAT tithing and giving of offering is important. That's where the poor are suppose to feed from, I have seen churches pay students fees, supply food to the poor, involve in several community services. Pls don't just come here and put up things to discourage others. If u don't do it fine, just kip it to urself owk! And if wat u are saying is true then u wudnt nid all dis lng grammer to convince any1.

Don't you like the word of God-is my attitude over the top for you Mr KoloOyinbo, to much info.
Religion does this to a man, it breaks them down, to the point having no understanding in word and truth. I don't hate you Mr KoloOyinbo your silly attitudes are a bit over the top at times, but hey, It would be asking to much from you' to retrieve any bible knowledge.
Opp's I forgot you know very little.
As I said I don't need your pity, you should save your pity, to those others who didn't make it through there ordeal in life. Pity those who are close to you, Pity the priest and nuns, pray for them.
Pity those who refuse to repent, and going to hell' on daily bases.
Pity yourself, that you dare to mock the word of God, Mr know it all..

Read John 14-2, Jesus said there are many ROOMS in my Fathers house..NIV..

Since I have written to you, I have given you scriptures, not my own words, but the words of God Himself, which you still deny..

Amen, I pray for all Catholic's going to heaven, we all need that freedom with Christ, Christ had opened that door for us all.
And if some of them get into heaven before me, Cool, Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord-the kingdom of God has come near to you, well done good and faithful servants.
Everyone has their rights to lay down their life's to seek God's kingdom-how about you Mr KoloOyinbo, will you lay down your life for Christ?

Ask yourself this Question, If someone put a gun to your head Mr KoloOyinbo, and said; is Jesus Christ your Lord, would you die in His name.
Or would you think about it?

KoloOyinbo:
REALLY - so in you tiny fundamentalist mind Christ came to die for our sins and tell us that -

"Heaven is a BIG place with lots of rooms" Just like a hotel and I wonder if the rooms have en suite bathrooms!

Do you see how silly Fundamentalism is?

This is why I don't like to debate scripture with ANY fundamentalist. I basically have to spend a lot of my time typing a lot to people who have neither the intelligence, the knowledge or the inclination to learn or even THINK!

Like I say, I pity you for your upbringing and did not even bother to read you unchristian comments regarding Catholics (they will have a better chance at salvation than you if you keep this attitude up). You will answer to Christ for your comments and explain why YOU decided they would go to hell rather than that being the Lord decision!

I guess all your ideas are 'self taught'!

You need to read John 14-2 and even in that it say's rooms, but hey lets go to heaven your way, we will all sneak in the back door.
You don't believe" Christ died so we can all live, theirs rules.
Brain dead you are and brain dead you will stay, until you seek the truth in Christ.
Religious you are. Pretty strange for someone who say's they have intelligences, and yet you don't seem to know anything. Not in word.

But hey its been fun writing, even Thur I am wasting my time, with an uneducated human being.
I suppose I have stayed on because you are fun to write too, and silly. I love it when people say they are Christians and don't know the word of God, like you don't Mr KoloOyinbo, when you say, you now refuse to talk to a fundamentalist minded person, you make a lot of excuses everytime, only because you have little understanding in the word of God.

Don't worry about it Mr KoloOyinbo we were all once like you-and it was the Holy Spirit who taught us with the help of others in Christ, I can help teach you, with the help of the Holy Spirit.
But first it would be nice if I knew you had turned your life over to the Lord hole hearted, so ones teaching will be a spree.
Think about it, if you don't want to learn on this forum we can find other sources to connect..
I am willing, to help bring you closer to Christ, with the help of God of cause.

KoloOyinbo:
REALLY - so in you tiny fundamentalist mind Christ came to die for our sins and tell us that -

"Heaven is a BIG place with lots of rooms" Just like a hotel and I wonder if the rooms have en suite bathrooms!

Do you see how silly Fundamentalism is?

This is why I don't like to debate scripture with ANY fundamentalist. I basically have to spend a lot of my time typing a lot to people who have neither the intelligence, the knowledge or the inclination to learn or even THINK!

Like I say, I pity you for your upbringing and did not even bother to read you unchristian comments regarding Catholics (they will have a better chance at salvation than you if you keep this attitude up). You will answer to Christ for your comments and explain why YOU decided they would go to hell rather than that being the Lord decision!

I guess all your ideas are 'self taught'!

Quote>Many mansions don't mean anything of the sort--there is many rooms in the kingdom of heaven-there is not different standards of thought in one overall truth. Who's teaching you, this rubbish?
One God-One Lord-One Spirit who teaches us all-we all have different gifts in the body of Christ, some pastors, some evangelist, some teachers etc in the word, but all filled with the Holy Spirit-all born again believers Mr KoloOyinbo.

Those who are born again Mr KoloOyinbo, will inherit the Kingdom of heaven, theirs no other way "Jesus had stated that Himself"...One must be born again, if he/she is seeking the kingdom of God, daily doing the right thing, I'm sure they will inherit the kingdom.

The many denominational's if they are born again, as Jesus told them to do, read your bible-one must be born again, Jesus kept on repeating Himself one must be born again, before entering the kingdom of heaven.....

I don't want your pity Mr KoloOyinbo not for me alone but millions of young children need you to rejoice with us, we made it through.

But pity those who didn't make it thought, your Church succeeded to destroy them.
Pray if you have a heart, for their love ones left behind, who have suffered thought this ordeal..

I am not anti Catholic Mr KoloOyinbo0 as I said: if you read back, no one could pull of a stunt like this-without the help of Satan himself...
Meaning to say these Catholic priest and nuns were demon possessed.
I don't hate Catholic's, they were following orders from the top, and many took it further, taken a young child's life into their own hands.
Like the Romans said to the Jews, I leave the blood on your hands, and they suffered since.

As sad as this sounds, it wouldn't be such a big deal, because this sort of behaviour happens all over the world, Children going missing, rapes, child porn, ect, but no-one suspected this sort of behaviour can come out of the Church of God.
It worked until someone had stood against the Church, and spoke the truth out in the open.

I'm sure if each of these men and women don't repent, they will have their own rewards...

Are you still mocking me Mr KoloOyinbo, you still believe I am a uneducated unChristian, because your right and the bible's wrong in word and in truth?
Are you having trouble Mr KoloOyinbo, ask the Spirit of God, to show you theirs no-other way into heaven.
ONE MUST BE BORN AGAIN
But if you can prove to me, Mr KoloOyinbo, their is another way into heaven in scripture, without being a born again believer-then that makes you God-and the bible wasn't written because of Jesus, it was written in your name.


Amen

KoloOyinbo:
Many mansions means there are different strands of thought within the one overall truth.

As for the rabid and barely coherent anti catholic rant, I understand your attitude being coloured by a bad upbringing and experience at the hand of some bad people (for which you deserve pity) but it does NOT excuse such unchristian behaviour. I think that is the best response to the ramblings.

Many denominations will get into Heaven and ALL through Jesus!

You really do need some formal education to be able to think clearly.

No one can answer the Kalam argument its about taking you away from Christ, It's another key to draw you away deeper away from Christ Himself. its rubbish..

Are you on drugs Mr KoloOyinbo

KoloOyinbo:
You still did NOT address this point.
"Where your recent post about Gods word came from when it had nothing whatsoever to do with what I was saying concerning the various Bible translations in accepted use and their suitability for any given situation is anybody's guess!" Did you even understand what I was saying about the various translations?

Yet again you go off on a tangent. Your post demonstrate a lack of logical thought, tendency to misunderstand what is being said and no understanding of scripture whatsoever!

And what does it mean to you when it says John 14:2 In My Fathers house are many mansions' If it were not so, I would have told you, I go to prepare a place for you, "And if I go and prepare a place for you. I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am there you maybe also.
The word for mansion" is 'monay" it means a dwelling, an abode.
Jesus is telling us that heaven has compartments, In the ancient culture, a fathers house was where the extended family lived.
Rooms were often added as the family grew, from birth to marriage.

Jesus was using the present day illustration of a loving tight family community..
So Christ is saying that He is preparing a place for us in heaven, where we will dwell with God in close communion with Him, and that there is room in Heaven for all whom God calls for salvation.

Many Catholic's {including the Priest & Bishops} in the spirit of "ecumeuism" {Meaning the desire and work for greater unity among Christian denominations} Quoted this biblical verse in John 14:2 is imply that salvation stretches out to all religions no matter what its followers believe in.
Have you not heard we are the temples of the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20.

So I can see where you received you info from when you say the many mansions are many religious denominations here on earth.
Wrong again my friend-Jesus said: one must be born again before having any part in these mansions in heaven.

Think before you give me any scriptures, what the true meanings are-read between the lines Mr KoloOyinbo-Open your bible-and understand what Jesus is saying, One must be born again.

Catholic's are not classed as born again in child birth. JESUS SAID ONE MUST BE BORN AGAIN BY CHOICE.

You had written it to say, you believe its about different denominations here on earth, different Churches>The Lord said: My Father house has many mansion> He is preparing these mansions for us in Heaven.

Yes you have called me unChristian every time you say I have no-idea how to be a Christian. {Meaning un Christian}.

Open your eye's>"Quote You do not know much about scripture" or indeed how Christianity is worshipped across the world.

I don't need to know about how other religions around the world, how one must worship, I am a born again Christian, and my goal is to worship my God and Him shall I only worship..One God-One Lord, One baptism.

There is no-other way into heaven My KoloOinbo only through Him Jesus Christ is Lord. .

KoloOyinbo:
Every time I have written scripture you have misinterpreted it! For example "My fathers house has many mansions"!

You only hear what you want to hear. I have said much of your actions are unchristian BUT never called you unchristian as you have with me! You do not know much about scripture or indeed how Christianity is worshiped across the world so really don't have too much to say!

Well done I have shared Acts 15 with religion. With no reply.

PastorKun:
It is in the bible so that we can understand were we are coming from, Christian doctrine should be strictly from the new testament. We are under a new covenant birthed by Jesus Christ. Also you would notice that Laws in the old testament were directed strictly at the Israelites. Christianity never adopted those Laws in fact it was stated clearly in Acts 15 that old testament Laws are not meant for Christians.

Uneducated in what Mr KoloOyinbo?
Worldly lingo.
No-one can understand you anyway, I have come into this forum with full intentions to only write about the Lord, given scriptures, and spreading the truth in the word of God across our nations.
And yes I have wasted some of my time listening to you.
I chase after the truth Mr KoloOyinbo, and when the Spirit of God shows me things, it makes my day. Don't forget I am narrow minded in word and truth.
And if you were really a born again Christian as you say you are? You wouldn't try to make yourself over intelligent in the flesh-comparing yourself above the word of God, No-sinful flesh knows the secrets' written in the bible-only the Holy Spirit can teach you the mysteries written in word and truth.
Even the simple minded will agree with that..

Its usually Christians who are religious that show little loyalty towards outsiders and more loyalty towards their Church-shutting everyone else out, Like in Acts 15, the Pharisees didn't believe others were saved' without being circumcised, It was the Lord who invited the uncircumcised Gentiles to be saved, Jews believed one was saved obeying the law.

Like the religious Pharisees they felt they were the only ones closer to God, and in modern days its those R.C.Church who believe they have the only true Church of God. Shutting everybody else out' even the elect from other denominational who believe in Christ also.
Haven't you notice, listen to yourself, you have shut me out, and refuse to share any truth in word about our Lord and savour.

Brothers in Christ always stick together no-matter what. True Christians fight the same spiritual war' everyday back to back Mr KoloOyinbo....
Unless you are religious, without the Spirit, how can one fight any spiritual war.

KoloOyinbo:
I never back down but as you never seem to understand there is little point in discussing anything with someone so rude, primitive, uneducated and just plain ignorant as yourself!

Where your recent post about Gods word came from when it had nothing whatsoever to do with what I was saying concerning the various Bible translations in accepted use and their suitability for any given situation is anybody's guess!

Quote I am also interested in any argument people put forward and to look at if they exhibit any logic?
Yes you do that well Mr KoloOyinbo--but it seems you back down every time I produce the word of God, and every time I mention what the bible say's, you start cursing and mocking, calling me names, declaring I am not a Christian. In the name of Jesus.
You work with dead works, faith comes from within, and it wouldn't matter what brother or sister in Christ their is, we don't curse each other, as you do.
By their fruits you will know them...

KoloOyinbo:
Please stop making silly assumptions about why I do things. You are wrong (yet again) I wanted to see what (if any astronomy/cosmology they were quoting). I am also interested in any argument people put forward and to look at if they exhibit any logic. In this case (as I thought it would) it proved easy (about 90 seconds thought) to spot the flaws in the logic.

I tell you exactly when you don't produce the word of God, in any of our Quotes.

You just mouth off, saying you are Christian without showing any evidence, in word or in truth.

Every time I have asked you to write scriptures, you ignore my asking, most times you come back saying you wouldn't bother writing bible scriptures to me.
And yet you would rather mock me on the net, telling me I am not a Christian and I don't know the meaning to even be one?
You are a great mocker Mr KoloOyinbo- and I am sure your reward will return to you.

In the other hand I have tried to give you the bible and you have refused accepting my giving.
I have read what you write with others on this forum, and still you show no evidence you study any words written in the bible.

Have a good day

KoloOyinbo:
Exactly when or where did I say I did not know the word of God? Will you stop putting your own ignorant and ill informed ideas into the mouth of others. Can you even READ? You know very little of Christianity.

So what you are saying You don't know the word of God? And from thousands of miles away you couldn't show me on the internet any of your teachings, and yet you are willing to bad mouth me FROM SUCH ALONG WAY on the net.
Get back in the program Mr KoloOyinbo.
Are you tuned in?

You don't know the word of God-do you Mr KoloOyinbo-You are full of hot air, you are trying to convince yourself you have intelligence.
Anyone who has no knowledge in the word of God, has dead works.
You are quite funny, you mouth off to me on the net, you haven't any knowledge in the bible, just a few scriptures you have pulled out of a hat, you don't seem to understand the meanings to any of them, you say you are learning bible knowledge, but then you say I am the last person you will show your knowledge too>

KoloOyinbo:
What are you talking about here? More ramblings? Hear what from you? I have little interest in educating you about the scripture about the essence of God from thousands of miles away and over the internet. You have shown a complete inability to understand even the basic ideas of Christianity and are more interested in confrontational arguing than actually learning!

As for which translation of the Bible I keep five at home but have online access to most. Due to the fact that the KJV (despite its accuracy of translation) is in English as it was used hundreds of years ago so that it is not the same as English used today, I would use a KJV for cross reference only and when quoting (especially to those unused to how words change their meanings over time) would prefer an NIV or perhaps an ASV.

It's like asking who made the big bang faery? But Mr KoloOyinbo, after you heard the noise Chokolateboss was calling, you run after it, hoping to find some truth if God really exist.

So this is difficult, if your looking else where for your faith, you will never find it, as I said: I search the scriptures and studied with other religious groups, and the only thing was missing, was the power in the Holy Spirit.

They claim to have the Spirit without using it's power.

KoloOyinbo:
If we take this position then what caused the cause. This has been the failure of ALL causal arguments for the last 2000 years or more.

Maybe if you weren't so closed into your self-then let me hear it from you about the essence of God.
But I ask, will you use bible scriptures to back up your faery's, so one can study.
And inform me what bibles you are choosing to use, so word will back up word.

KoloOyinbo:
I suspect you need to return to those studies to gain UNDERSTANDING of those various points of view.

As for the Kalam argument. I have stated my position. It is fatally flawed from the first premise onwards and self contradictory.

It's pointless to even try to explain the position then what caused the cause who was God's Father and His Father and His..

KoloOyinbo:
If we take this position then what caused the cause. This has been the failure of ALL causal arguments for the last 2000 years or more.

Pity, it would have been nice for you to believe in Christ, and not your own gibberish. So your faery that begins that exist has no cause, so the cause cant begin because it has no existences.
Once a believer begins to believe in any cause, prove it don't exist.

ChokolateBoss:
Listen man, I'd really appreciate it if u stop quoting me and typing incoherent gibberish. U can go back to ur thread abt d people u believe are burning and will burn in hell. U'd fair better there.

Quote>Everything that begins to exist has a cause? I'm on the right track? Everything before existence, God had a cause, then it must prove before word nothing existed-and after word it begins to exist with a cause.

God said: let there be light, and there was light--so the cause begins to exist.

ChokolateBoss:
@kolooyinbo. I do not agree with u on d 'inconclusiveness' of d first premise.

"Everything that begins to exist has a cause." Is that not demonstrable from reason alone? When u say proof, what would constitute that 'proof'?

Ok lemme stop here for now. We'll talk a lot about this first premise. First, pls read this article by Peter Kreeft and tell me what u think? http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/first-cause.htm. Then we can move on

When people try to prove if God really exist-are barking up the wrong tree, everyone's looking for answers, never coming to the knowledge of the truth, always looking for a image, and yet God stands right there before you.

The bible clearly say's in 1 John 4:7, beloved let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
No-one has seen God at any time, because God is Love, and when we Love one another God abides in us.
And Love was from the beginning that exist with a cause.

John 14:7, "If you had known Me you have known the Father also.

Of course God knew the tricky of the Devil, and how one will try to twist and turn man's thinking patterns.

Mr KoloOyinbo stop looking, just smile.

And the evidence was found with Jesus, many times over-Have you ever heard of the Spear of Destiny, it was the Spear that pierced into Jesus's side..
It's finding the truth that frightens many, if God don't exist we don't either.

God had made a beginning for a cause so one can exist-This is the Kalam cosmological argument faery.

KoloOyinbo:
There was quite a lot of stuff there and as usual the thread breaks up into many different (although related) arguments.

While I agree with the conclusion of a personal Creator of the Universe (God) the argument is logically flawed and inconsistent within itself.

Also if we COULD prove Gods existence it then makes a mockery of "through FAITH ALONE" as faith is unnecessary in the face of a valid proof.

I have heard other similar arguments but not under this term 'Kalam'.

I have search and studied with the best, of religions-Catholic's Jw's Morons, Presbyterian's and others who claim to know Christ, but fail to recognize the importance in truth and in word. So without someone not having any intelligence theirs only One God and One Lord and savour, and One Baptism..

As I said, I have looked into the Kalam cosmological argument, and its about you in the flesh.
So knock yourself out, find the truth in Christ, you may find actual truth, pray before you enter in-I was once like you, and I went to and fro seeking the truth in Christ, and I wrote notes, on differences of different denominations, and yes it was interesting, but I found their interest was without the Holy Spirit of God.

They said they had the Spirit but refused His power.

KoloOyinbo:
Baby baptism is SYMBOLIC! I don't actually agree but it is valid. There are other different interpretations of Baptism - Total Immersion versus sprinkling. BOTH have valid justification and adherents.

This silly idea of only one denomination being correct is something that really does inhibit your attempts at thinking.

Now having shown (yet again I might add) how there are differing interpretations - all of which are valid Christian points of view - I am a bit amazed at your continued lack of understanding. I suspect it is because you simply don't want to understand.

Contrast also the Calvinist Doctrine of the Elect with the wider Christian view of free will.

Contrast Presbyterian Church structure with say Methodism or Anglicanism. MANY differing interpretations. If you know of only one then your knowledge of Christianity must be very limited indeed. I wonder about the area you are in? A good academic book on comparative religions would be useful in that it would give an idea of some of the differing points of view within Christianity itself.

I have look into the Kalam cosmological argument, its all about how we think in the flesh-God's word is Spirit.

KoloOyinbo:
Follow after who? You make too many presumptions without adequate thought. I see an interesting thread I want to look at it. I may agree or disagree. Don't know until I look (obviously).

You really do need to learn, not just about Christianity, but also about how to think logically! Perhaps if you were less intent on arguing and criticising everybody and everything else you might actually learn something.

Don't you like the truth in Christ-

ChokolateBoss:
U're too enlightened to be exchanging words with ignorant hate-consumed lunatics. U dignify them with ur response. Quit it. If such lunatic tales make them sleep better at night, then leave them to it. The right to freedom of expression does not guarantee d right to be taken seriously.
Meanwhile, there's a thread in d religion section on d Kalam cosmological argument, d Big Bang, God, time, space, matter, evolution, etc. Would like ur contributions there. If u're interested, would give u d link. I'm not contributing there doh, just reading comments for now. Leave these lunatics to wankk to their conspiracy theories

Yes follow after them, they can only take you further on the highways, then you already are.
Shame another one bites the dust, good luck on your trip. Choc'o will deliver all your needs.
I have looked up the Kalam cosmological argument. And all about the flesh.
Nothing spiritual.

KoloOyinbo:
This sounds interesting. Yes, please do forward me the link.

Yes as you keep on repeating yourself they can be interpreted different ways, but you haven't showing me any other way? And you come across with these big words, but you don't stand strong with these words you write.
Interpret why the Catholic's believe in baby baptism-when in the bible it clearly says one must be baptised by choice?
Interpreted How is a baby saved, when he/she don't understand the terms on remissions of sin.
This will be interesting.

KoloOyinbo:
Every quote you use can be interpreted in many ways. To use them in the manner you have done is quite reprehensible.

So you are without sin?

ChokolateBoss:
U're too enlightened to be exchanging words with ignorant hate-consumed lunatics. U dignify them with ur response. Quit it. If such lunatic tales make them sleep better at night, then leave them to it. The right to freedom of expression does not guarantee d right to be taken seriously.
Meanwhile, there's a thread in d religion section on d Kalam cosmological argument, d Big Bang, God, time, space, matter, evolution, etc. Would like ur contributions there. If u're interested, would give u d link. I'm not contributing there doh, just reading comments for now. Leave these lunatics to wankk to their conspiracy theories

People seem to be afraid hearing the truth about the cruelty the Catholic Church acted upon the innocent, I do understand you haven't got the answer, I believe no-one has, and I don't believe any man woman can pull of a stunt like this, without the help of Satan himself.
So we must wonder who's controlling the Catholic Church, obliviously Not God the Father in Heaven.

Get with the program Mr KoloOyinbo.
Christ is the only way.
And to receive Christ one must be born again and baptised with the Holy Spirit, by choice.
Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptised will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
So you see, how does a new born baby believe.

Acts 8:36-37, Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See here is water. What hinders me from being baptised?
Then Philip said, 'If you believe with all your heart, you may," And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
And again how does a new born baby believe with all his heart and make a choice to be baptised?

Does the Church preach on the truth Mr KoloOyinbo. Are Catholic's really saved?

Acts 2:38,"Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let everyone of you be Baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
How does a new born baby know about the remissions of sins, Mr KoloOyinbo?

I expect I won't here from you on this topic, like many other topic's I have written to you Mr KoloOyinbo, if you are back to back with different denominations, then at least know, why you are backing them.

You claim you are a born again Christian, then start reading and be narrow minded and get strong with the word. Your not helping when you are trying to be some kind of a peace maker Mr KoloOyinbo
Stop being a pussy, be that bigot; stand strong in word don't let their secret societies control you, these other religions are only made to draw people away from the truth.

If your not sure ask them about baptism, and follow it up with the bible, you will see there's a difference in the truth.

Break free and come follow after Christ. Don't listen to them, speak up and believe, Help these people don't let them go to Hell, we need them, to know the truth in Christ.

We need all the support to help stop this war against Christians.

KoloOyinbo:
I will leave you to check the quote yourself.

As for the many paragraphs of bigoted anti catholic rant and incorrect propaganda I don't think it is worthy of a dignified reply from ANY Christian!

Deuteronomy 5:6-13, I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the House of bondage.

"You shall have no other God's before Me. "You shall not make yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in Heaven above. {Already you have made carved images of Jesus and Mary}.

"You shall not bow down to them all serve them.
{I have seen it myself you either bow down, nod, even light incense or candles at the feet of each statue}

You shall not take the Lord your God in Vain, {and yet the Catholic's believe they are the true Church}

Obverse the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the lord your God commanded you.
Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day the Sabbath of the Lord your God, in it you shall not work.

{And the Church had Change the Sabbath day Saturday into a Sunday}

Doctrines of the pagan sun God, and the Catholic doctrines are no different.
The nativity of the sun, the birth of Tammuz Dec 25th.

{Catholic's The nativity of Jesus or Christmas is held Dec 25th}

2 The midsummer festival of the Pagan was held every year on June 24th.

{Catholic's The nativity of St John is held every year on June 24th}

3 The assumption of semiramus who became the Mother goddess of the pagans.

{The assumption of Mary, who became the mother God to all Catholic's}

4 The Mother goddess was given a title, and worshipped as Queen of Heaven-Jeremiah 7:18 The women gather wood the fathers kindle the fire and the women knead their dough, to make cakes for the Queen of heaven; and they poured out drink offerings to other gods, that they provoke Me to anger.

{The Virgin Mary is given the title and worshipped as the Queen of heaven by Catholic's}

4a Queen of heaven is wrath subdues of the pagan god. {Mary Queen of heaven subdues to the wrath of Christ and His Father against sinners}

5 Cakes decorated to the goddess, Jeremiah 44: 17-19, "But we will certainly do whatever has gone out of your own mouth, to burn incense to the Queen of Heaven and pour out a drink offerings to her, V 19 The women also said: " And when we burn incense to the Queen of Heaven and poured out a drink offerings to her, did we make cakes for her.

{Hot cross buns are baked for Mary in most C.Churches}

6 Pagans believe in the doctrine of purgatory.{Catholic's believe in the doctrine of purgatory}

7 Burning incense and candles Jeremiah 11:17 "For the Lord of hosts, who planted you, has pronounced doom against you for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke Me to anger in offering incense to Baal.

{Rome as well as every Church burns incense and candles in their masses}


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCF742DyM98

FrancisTony:
Okay! This is an excerpt from herald9's comment.
He made it on a thread, and I extracted the one that's relevant to the thread and answered, inorder not to derail. But, I decided to create this thread and explain the others for him.

https://www.nairaland.com/2047953/december25th-bible/1#28984621


Luke1:10- And the whole multitude of the people was praying outside at the hour of incense.

Exodus30: 34-37
34. And the LORD said to Moses: Take sweet spices, stacte and onycha and galbanum, and pure frankincese with these sweet spices; there shall be equal amounts of each.
35. "You shall make of these an incense, a compound according to the art of the perfumer, salted, pure and holy.
36 "And you shall beat some of it before the testimony in the tabernacle of meeting where I will meet with you. It shall be most holy to you.
37. "But as for the incense which you shall make, you shall not make any for yourselves, according to its composition. It shall be to you holy for the LORD.

So brother, tell me how this is a pagans tradition?. Only protestants who are not practising it, that should be accused from deviating away in what the Lord our God has told us to obey.


Proverb 15:8- The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD,
But the prayer of the uprights is His delight.

^^^it goes that show that the prayer of wicked ones isn't acceptable in the eyes of our LORD GOD. So, who would do that?


Number21:8-9
8. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live.
9. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.

Exodus25:17-20
17. "You shall make a mercy seat of pure gold; two and a half cubits shall be its length and a cubit and a half its width.
18. "And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work you shall make them at the two ends of the mercy seat.
19. "Make one cherub at one end, and the other cherub at the other end; you shall make the cherubim at the two ends of it of one piece with the mercy seat.
20. "And the cherubim shall stretch out their wings above, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and they shall face one another; the faces of the cherubim shall be toward the mercy seat.

Act19:11-12
11. Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul,
12 So that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them.


Who adores cross? You mean your Church? My Church doesn't.
Or could you clarify what you mean by it?


At underlined, really? Provide a biblical proof, biko?

At emboldened, Matthew5:17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets, I didn't come to destroy but to fufill.

Glory to Jesus,
Honour to Mary.

Yes I do need to ask what father has many mansions, because I have the rights to test the spirits Mr KoloOyinbo..
Born again's are usually narrow minded, others who believe other denominational groups are acceptable, need their heads red.
One God one Lord and savour.

Any other denominations who Call us bigots, and other names, it's only because we believe in the truth.
Our minds are not scatted, to even think we have so many different denominations, One born again, one baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Jesus didn't make any other way for us to meet Our Father in heaven.

I see it the way' I was brought up to see it, In the 50's and the 60's when the Catholic Church had stolen the Children away from their parents, we were forced to follow the Catholic Church, as a Child I remembered how the priest and the nun's had treated the young, it wasn't always pleasant, many hidden secrets behind closed doors-as young as I was I would escape over the high fences. Just to be caught by the law, so when I returned, I was beating and bashed, tormented by the nun's within, most older Children weren't so lucky, young girls and boy's were sexually raped daily by the Catholic priest, the priest would call to be served, and served they were, calling out for the sexual slave Child they desired.
No wonder they didn't want to get married..

Claiming the title of the Mother Church, Queen of heaven, authorised to imprisoned, an innocent child away from what was freedom-to the depths of Hell, what was our crime, we were God's children.

This is common knowledge around the world, many Children never made it home, but those who did are coming forward with their own stories to tell. In the thousands- maybe Millions Mr KoloOyinbo, all in the name of the Catholic Church.

I would disobey and I was beating, others who disobeyed were either beating, or Murdered, Mr KoloOyinbo.
By the thousands Mr KoloOyinbo young Children were forced into the Church as sex slaves, all in the name of the Catholic Church.

So tell me Mr KoloOyinbo are you like the Catholic Church, do you imprison and have sex with young children? Do you worship their God.
Do you follow after the Pope Mr KoloOyinbo.
Some say the Pope isn't Catholic but a Freemasonry, trying to bring all religions together, under a new written religion, one must worship Lucifer.

I have the rights to test all spirits-obviously the Church believes in another God.
Children are still going missing around the world and many still believe it's the Catholic Church.

I walk daily in forgiveness and stand strong in the word of God, as narrow minded as I am, I will test all spirits belonging to any other denominational groups.
Even in my own Church I test the spirits, any preacher who preaches on tithing and offerings, I will test.

And what your not understanding I'm not condemning the people Mr KoloOyinbo I'm condemning their practises. And It would be so UNCHRISTIAN to call anybody a BIGOT. Is that what you do Mr KoloOyinbo. Call your brothers in Christ names.

KoloOyinbo:
YES I am a born again Christian! That is why I would never be so UNCHRISTIAN as to say anyone was going to Hell. Regarding the Catholics and their mode of worship you have clearly not understood anything said. They do NOT worship idols. The issue is not their practice but you inability to understand simple things like symbolism etc.

Regarding the father in the quote - REALLY - do you need to ask what father Jesus was talking about?

So funny>

tunde4top:
who need our tithe ?. God or pastors ?. If it is god, then where does god lives ?. Who are pastors ?. Are pastors saved different compared to other believers ?. Do pastors have special link to god, compared to other sons of god. Please answer my questions above.