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Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 12:28pm On Jan 18, 2018

It seems you are looking for the answers-in no way have you produced your interpretation, how you see these verses..
{2 Thessalonians 2:13-15} But we should and are [morally] obligated [as debtors] always to give thanks to God for you, believers beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through the sanctifying work of the Spirit [that sets you apart for God’s purpose] and by your faith in the truth [of God’s word that leads you to spiritual maturity].
Again I say it-the traditions are the traditions of God-either by teaching, either by word, and either by letter, we now call the bible.
It was to this end that He called you through our gospel [the good news of Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection] so that you may obtain and share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold [tightly] to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

9inches:
{2 Thessalonians 2:14-16} To this He called you through our gospel, so that you may share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brothers, stand firm and cling to the traditions we taught you, whether by speech or by letter.

@brocab, what did Apostle Paul mean by 'traditions taught by speech?'

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Christianity Etc › Re: The Pentecostal Church Verses The Catholic Church. by brocab(op): 12:04pm On Jan 18, 2018*

Then do the same-paste your evidence-prove it lines up with the Word of God, I am not in any competition, this is strictly bible-we are proclaiming Christ to be the author, He gives life.
I also know the truth-the truth is Christ-He is the author of all truth. If you have the truth-then share that truth, Is Christ your first priority, or have you another-do you pray to the Father, or do you pray through another, Is Christ your mediator or is there another?
Which truth do you seek Uben?

Ubenedictus:
I never saw you as an enemy, that is just you.

a paste scripture, sometimes I paste source materials to show proof of something, but unlike you I don't copy and paste arguments while side stepping the point made by another.

if that is what you do then I'll start doing the same, I'll begin to copy and paste arguments from Catholic sites since you claim you can't recognize that is counterproductive.
nah, I would disagree because I actually know the truth, I have come to the truth and I'm living in that reality, I don't need to copy and paste.

you remember some time ago when you copied and pasted falsehood against what the Catholic Church believes and you still kept your falsehood even after it was shown you were incorrect? that is how I know you aren't interested in learning anything or even discussing with an open mind. you just want to copy and paste your stories even when they are wrong.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Pentecostal Church Verses The Catholic Church. by brocab(op): 11:46am On Jan 18, 2018*

Just a little side tracked, I just wanted to point this out-about Peter-Paul found Pete to be on both sides of the fence, Meaning by scripture Peter had one foot in Christ and the other foot in the law of Judaism. This same Peter is recognised by the Church of Rome.
And is it not, that the Catholic Church is on both sides of the fence and they too believe having one foot in Christ and the other in Mary and the saints glorifies thee..
{Galatians 2:7-21} But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles) and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do.Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.
Is this the same circumcision the Catholic's now believe every believer should practice, to be circumcised under the law.
But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
I remember when I first met my wife as a Catholic she was taught all men should be circumcised under the law..
“But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.
{Galatians 6:15-17} Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.
From now on, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 1:31pm On Jan 16, 2018*

To be honest Uben I really don't know which direction we are going with this, you are swapping and changing-if I had a better idea, and knew about your religion, just maybe we could be talking on the same lines.
Maybe instead of asking me the questions, you should be providing your evidence on paper, and show us where in Word, are we to follow the unspiriture'd or the Spiriture'd doctrines-where we are to obey both?
It seems every thing I try to help you with-your first reaction is you reject the Word of God-you have tried to turn scripture against scripture without reading what any of it means.
What truly stands out the bible isn't enough for you, you are talking about the unspiritured missing links the apostles taught, I now see it written in the bible, and what you see in no-mans land-you believe they taught as men, without God-and these are the traditions of men, men that built the Church in Rome.
So, I don't mind having this conversation with you, but you must understand It's strictly bible, unless you can prove otherwise, and you can't" but still you assist, men will save a multitude of nothing-Has this got something to do with praying to the saints, because they taught as men.
Umen no-man can speak the Word of God-without God! "bring your evidence if you have any, and explain how you see these men teaching without God, give me some sort of your interpretation, how you understand the bible-we could have a sensible conversation. Visa versa.
But the problem we are having between each other, is, I am not Catholic, and as I see it, just speaking to the Catholic's they seem so far away from Christ? The tradition of men stands fern with the Catholic Church-and even if you did have other books to prove the things of Christ, you disobey the bible as it stands. Thru shalt not make any images.Thru shall worship One God and Him only you shall serve-but the problem is-you don't serve Him, because the Queen of Heaven and the Mother of God, Mother Mary is use as your Mediator between God and man..
The bible tells me, I can pray straight into the Fathers throne room in heaven, but I find it strange the bible tells you the same thing, but you have refused God, denying Him, and then turning to Mary and the saints as your go between, again this is against the scruptures?
You seem the think, your Church is right and the bible is somewhat wrong, because you believe the bible has the missing links-why the world stands at a stand still-you have all the answers, whom you are to pray too. I don't need to go through anybody-other the God the Father-you prefer Mary and all the saints, yes I have asked people to pray for me, visa versa, but the issue is, they are still living in the natural and in Spirit, but as you can see-we have a wide gap between our differences concerning the bible" you don't like Martin Luther, nor do you like anybody that doesn't agree with your religion, nor me-only because I disagree with you and your man made traditions.
Nowhere in the bible does it tell us, we are to pray to dead souls, I wouldn't dare to disobey God, I wouldn't dare to pray to any other, as my go between, myself and God.
I have the living Christ..I pray to the living God the Father. I pray for the living-the dead have already passed away-the bible does not tell me to pray to anybody else other then to the living Father God, plus what do you expect from the dead, and what can the dead do? Plus the bible doesn't actually tell us that all the saints had made it into Heaven, we can assume, but really to be on the save side, I will directly pray to the Father in Heaven-He I know created Heaven..

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Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 12:04pm On Jan 16, 2018*

Ubenedictus:
I know the word because I have received it fully just as the Bible says {This actually sounds the bible is just a book, without you knowing the Spirit, let alone having the Spirit} I should from both the written word and the unwritten tradition, {The unwritten tradition is how you put it, Paul spoke the Word of God-given by God-and later it was written in the bible} and when I teach doctrine, I happily quote the Bible and also quote the testimony of the early Christians who received the unwritten tradition {So what you are saying you mix the bible up with the early Church traditions-no wonder the Church isn't saved in Christ} and what has always been held in the Church and they don't contradict, they complement.

Again you are not listening to me, Paul quoted scripture from God, which in Paul's letters he was reminded of these things that were given to him from God and the Holy Spirit Paul had received fully, because Paul believed, the Spirit reminded Paul to write them down. The verse you quoted, Uben is found written in the Bible, as it stands, "how else do we know, the written Word of God-if God didn't open up the bible, allowing His own believers to enjoy the same blessings, the apostles had just by believing fully in "the One true God, Jesus Christ.
{John 14:26} But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
{Proverbs 30:5}Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
As a kind of friend to you, "really" again I ask you, have you alone heard from God Himself? Have you ever had an encounter with the Holy Spirit-why do you refuse to become a born again believer, why are you so religious you believe the bible isn't enough to know God? You think you know God on the outside, but your insides are full of darkness, and that light you believe that shines through the Catholic Church, it isn't bright enough, neither in you, nor anybody else that refuses Christ to His fullest.

Ubenedictus:
if you think they quoted scriptures all you need to do is show me where st Paul quoted from

1 Cor 2:9,
"but just as it is written,'THINGS WHICH EYE
HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND
which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN,
ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO
LOVE HIM.'
do you know anywhere where that was written?
do you know anywhere the name James and jambre
quoted in 2tim 3:8 where given?

you seem confused

nobody is talking about thing that came from men, we are talking about the word of God which the Bible says is given to us through written from and unwritten form.

no sir I didn't say the Catholic Church was built on Judaism, I said it was began when Jesus died, commissioned at his ascension and empowered at Pentecost

sorry but this is gibberish.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Pentecostal Church Verses The Catholic Church. by brocab(op): 10:45pm On Jan 15, 2018

So does this mean we are enemies once again?
Copying and paste-then how do you write scripture-or write email addresses of different sites for me to look at-if you are not interested in people doing what you do huh

Hypocritical...

Ubenedictus:
I have never claimed to be all knowing, I don't have answers for everything.

How do people learn-by each other-If I said, I ask the Lord to direct me to seek out where to find my search about the subject we are seeking together, would you agree with that?
And what if I had said, I copy and paste to save time-because the site I find my information are from other believers in Christ, who have already had it written down on the same subject we are writing about.
What if I said: you don't recognise the truth, because the truth doesn't know you-would you agree?
Of course you wouldn't, because you would copy and paste something out from the Catholic Church, like you have done in the past, trying to prove your Church belongs to no-mans land-you call Peter.

Ubenedictus:
I have never claimed to be all knowing, I don't have answers for everything.

brocab, I am not interested in disagreements that take forever, I don't enjoy people who scoff... I am only interested in people who want to truly get the truth of a disagreement not someone who copies and paste, side step and then all what not just so as not to face the truth. Most times I discuss here on nairaland because of those who years from now may come across this thread.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 9:51pm On Jan 15, 2018*

And how does God speak to you? If God isn't speaking through His Word Jesus?
Maybe if you were to explain the unwritten Word-you claim you follow-instead of blaming Martin Luther all the time, "then we could go a little further on this subject.
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
{2 Thessalonians 2:15}
So what you call word-it is now written in writing, so it's no longer just words, but the Word, God's Word Jesus-its now written..
And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others.
{2 Tim 2:2} Don't you understand these people were trusted enough to be filled with the Holy Spirit, given to them by God..Yes they preach it, they preached God's written Word Jesus throughout the nations.
And the Word of God said this too, but this doesn't prove you have the missing link. {John 21:25} And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
And these are the missing links no-one preaches-because man alone does not know them, unless they were revealed by the Spirit of God, 'these missing secrets, maybe revealed in Heaven..Amen.

Ubenedictus:
the Bible doesn't teach that the word of God is confined to the Bible alone. that is a tradition of men invented by Martin Luther.

the Bible says the word of God comes down to us in two form, the written word AKA the Bible and the unwritten apostolic tradition, both are given to and preserved in the Church.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions
which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our
epistle.

And the things you have heard me say in the
presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable
people
who will also be qualified to teach others. 2 Tim 2:2.

that is because you have confined him to the written word even though the Bible says you must also hold the unwritten tradition.
Jesus is the Word AKA logos in Greek of God. and the revelation he gave us AKA rhema is found in the written Bible and the unwritten tradition.

I know the word because I have received it fully just as the Bible says I should from both the written word and the unwritten tradition, and when I teach doctrine, I happily quote the Bible and also quote the testimony of the early Christians who received the unwritten tradition and what has always been held in the Church and they don't contradict, they complement.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 9:31pm On Jan 15, 2018

We are on different roads here, because the apostles quoted scripture, now written in what we call the bible, you believe these are unwritten Words?
These Words didn't come from man, they came from God-this is why we call it the Word of God.
So you are saying it was the Catholic Church that was built upon the Judaism's, the same Pharisees that Jesus argued against, every time the Pharisees followed the traditions of men, rather then they followed the traditions of God.
Now I understand-and the Church stays the same, and because the Pharisees had crucified Jesus on Roman soil, the Church stood its ground claiming your Church is the foundation of Christ..Am I right?

Ubenedictus:
in case you don't know the old testament is Judaism, the Church of Jesus that is the Catholic Church was founded on the death of Jesus, commissioned at his ascension and empowered at Pentecost. it is the new testament Church we are talking about.

and that Very word of God is contained in the unwritten tradition given to the Church
that that same Bible showed us that the apostles referred to non biblical tradition of the Jews.

1 Cor 2:9,
"but just as it is written,'THINGS WHICH EYE
HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND
which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN,
ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO
LOVE HIM.'

do you know anywhere where that was written?

do you know anywhere the name James and jambre quoted in 2tim 3:8 where given?

the the passages alluded to here?
Jude 4,6,13,14–15, 2 Peter 2:4;
3:13,

but that doesn't even concern my point.

the issue is clear the new testament expressly commands Christians to hold on firmly to the unwritten traditions.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Pentecostal Church Verses The Catholic Church. by brocab(op): 1:52am On Jan 15, 2018

"Why? What can you learn from pdozie-when you know you have all the answers? I was only protecting someone I enjoy so much, I actually admire your understanding? Uben we have been having our disagreements forever, and if it takes forevermore, then let it be forever..
And I am sure you feel the same way about me..

Ubenedictus:
don't speak for me.

I have no problem learning from pdozie

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 1:42am On Jan 15, 2018

Where was the Catholic Church found in the Old Testament? I am sure it was part of a pagan temple, and still is to my knowledge.
Trusting in the reliable people is trusting in God-these people didn't preach the traditions of men, they preached Jesus..
Don't you understand? The Word of God is all about Jesus, man didn't preach other then Him-Peter said: silver and Gold I do not have, but in the name of Jesus stand up and walk-and how do I know this-its written in the bible, Jesus quoted scriptures, when He had to deal with the Pharisees, and the people in genal.
The Torah is foundational to Judaism, and Jesus quoted it often. The first examples below come from the story of Jesus being tempted by Satan out in the desert. Jesus responds to each temptation by quoting from the Torah, showing the supreme value he placed on it for life, thought and behavior.
{Have you noticed Jesus quoted scripture-from the Torah which of cause is written in the bible-Each time Jesus begins “You have heard that it was said…” and contrasts it with “…but I say.” He is not contradicting the Torah, about which he would have said, “It is written.” The phrase “You have heard that it was said” referred to popular understandings of the Torah—the way it was understood and applied, the way people learned it from their parents and teachers, the way it was repeated at the watering trough and the back alleys and the shoemaker’s shop; He quoted the Torah just it is written in the bible}
(Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4) But he answered, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
(Deuteronomy 8:3) And he humbled you and let you hunger and fed you with manna, which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, that he might make you know that man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord.

Ubenedictus:
the written word is in the Bible the unwritten which we too must hold is what I am talking about and

you can find it here.

And the things you have heard me say in the
presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people
who will also be qualified to teach others. 2 Tim 2:2.

it was given to the Church to be passed down from generation to generation, and by Church mean the only Church that goes back to the time of the apostles, it is found in the testimony of the early Christians.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 1:09am On Jan 15, 2018

To be honest-If this wisdom you say is not in the bible alone, then it isn't God's wisdom.
And also I have never had God speak to me, through another way, other then the written Word of God..
When I preach, I preach doctrine, preaching without the Word of God isn't preaching Him. The righteousness of God is His Word-Jesus said give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, which is the coin, and give back to God what belongs to God-which is His Word-I preach His Word..
It would be bible bashing-if I didn't know the Word of God..I would be a dead branch without the living vine..

Ubenedictus:
actually your example only proves my points. some laws were written on tablets others weren't.

the summary of our laws were written down but the Bible clearly tells us that the Christian doctrine in found both in the Bible and in unwritten tradition so that we may all know it and not go around on the Bible alone.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 11:25pm On Jan 14, 2018*

Than this proves you haven't received the Holy spirit to know the Word of God full hearten-theirs no such thing as a lukewarm Christian, these other unwritten words you claim to hold-are the traditions of men-more then they are of God, this is clearly seen throughout the Catholic Church.
{2 Timothy 2:2} Is about teaching the traditions of God, not the traditions of men, you are not sure about-everything we preach is written in the Word of God-Jesus said: test the Spirit.
{2 Timothy 3:16} All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness..
We preach what we read-If it isn't written in the Word of God-then it's a sinners lie..
{2 Corinthians 11:3-4} I am afraid, however, that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may be led astray from your simple and pure devotion to Christ.
For if someone comes and proclaims a Jesus other than the One we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit than the One you received, or a different gospel than the one you accepted, you put up with it way too easily.
Meaning if someone comes to me and preaches another gospel that doesn't line up with the Word of God, Uben then it's a lie..

Ubenedictus:
the written word is in the Bible the unwritten which we too must hold is what I am talking about and

you can find it here.

And the things you have heard me say in the
presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people
who will also be qualified to teach others. 2 Tim 2:2.

it was given to the Church to be passed down from generation to generation, and by Church mean the only Church that goes back to the time of the apostles, it is found in the testimony of the early Christians.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 10:59pm On Jan 14, 2018

You are up in arms today Uben-what's going on, have you found a subject you like?
And plus wasn't there 613 laws to be counted for, but when Christ came He gave us two laws, to go by-Love God with all your heart mind and soul, and the second love your neighbour as yourself..
It doesn't matter how many commandments were written after the 10 commandments, what matters God wrote them on stone.
And besides had you noticed even our own laws are all written down..

Ubenedictus:
there were another 600 laws which God gave moses and they weren't written on the tablets of stone, they only got put down later.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 10:45pm On Jan 14, 2018

Are you pushing for a miracle, that will take some praying-expecting the Catholic's to answer the truth for you-they are not trained to be honest, even the priest lie, the Pope lies calling himself god on earth, these Catholic's haven't the slightest idea 'what is truth.
Forgive me brother I added it-to kill my boredom sitting at home reading through.
How long has it been bro, since we have worked-spreading the gospel to the lost souls across the nations, and still God works in us, given us strength to come up against our enemies everyday..
God say's love them-as He has loved us, this doesn't mean the Catholic's actually believe this is true.

solite3:
thanks for your reply.
I wanted a roman catholic to answer.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 10:28pm On Jan 14, 2018

Then prove it to us-where else do we find the written Word of God-if He isn't in the bible only.

Ubenedictus:
no he believes he must obey the teachings of the apostles whether they came down in writing AKA Bible or taught to the Church in words and later wrote down.

the word of God was never confined to the Bible alone.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 10:20pm On Jan 14, 2018

While God was speaking to Moses was not the 10 Commandments written on tablets of stone?

Ubenedictus:
no sir, what the apostles TAUGHT the Church is what is considered truth and every ancient Church accept that whether it came down in written form or through the apostolic teaching bestowed on the Church.

scripture is inspired so also is the teachings of the apostles unless you think they didn't have the authority of the spirit to teach God's word.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 10:13pm On Jan 14, 2018

So I am supporting my brother in Christ? Don't you support your fellow comrades?

9inches:
The reply was meant for Solite3, not you.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 10:08pm On Jan 14, 2018

Both was your answer to this question-meaning we live by the traditions of man and God-We can get this speech from God Himself..Peter speech it, but you are not agreeable with the bible verses on that..

9inches:
I did not say that. If that's what you believe, good for you.

Can you answer the above question now without deflecting?

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 8:54am On Jan 14, 2018*

To be honest 9 in, I really don't know which direction we are going with this, you are swapping and changing-if I had a better idea, and knew about your religion, just maybe we could be talking on the same lines.
Maybe instead of asking me the questions maybe you should be providing your evidence on paper, and show us where in Word, are we to follow the traditions of men-rather then the traditions of God,or both.
It seems every thing I try to help you with-your first reaction is you reject the Word of God-you have tried to turn scripture against scripture without reading what the meaning of it is.
The bible isn't enough for you, first you are talking about the missing links to the bible, now this, the traditions of men.
So bro I don't mind having this conversation with you, but you must understand It's strictly bible, unless you can prove otherwise, that the Word of God isn't just in the written bible of God.
So I say if you bring your evidence to the table, and explain how you see these scriptures, giving me some sort of your interpretation, how you understand the bible-we could have a sensible conversation. Visa versa.
But the problem we are having between each other, is, I am not Catholic, and as I see it, just speaking to the Catholic's they seem so far away from Christ? The tradition of men stands fern with the Catholic Church-and even if you did have other books to prove the things of Christ, you disobey the bible as it stands. Thru shalt not make any images.Thru shall worship One God and Him only you shall serve-but the problem is-you don't serve Him, because the Queen of Heaven the Mother of God is your only Mediator between God and man..
The bible tells me I can pray straight to the Father on His throne in heaven, I don't need to go through anybody else, yes I have asked people to pray for me visa versa, but we have large differences with our beliefs-nowhere in the bible does it tell us, to pray to dead souls, nor will I pray for them in Heaven-praise the Lord if they had made it to heaven.
I have the living Christ..I pray to the living God the Father. I pray for the living-the dead have passed away-the bible does not tell me to pray to the dead souls. What can the dead do?

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 6:16am On Jan 14, 2018*

Easy you believe we are to obey both man and God's traditions?
But what does the bible say?

9inches:
Can't you answer the question? It's bible passage o, not made up. Please explain.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 6:11am On Jan 14, 2018

As a Catholic-have you ever heard from God? all is it something you believe the priest are the ones that hear from God?
{Romans 13:13} convicted and converted the immoral Augustine. For Martin Luther, a miserable monk, the light broke in through
{Romans 1:17} He said, Night and day I pondered until I saw the connection between the justice of God and the statement that "the just shall live by his faith.
Why has the Bible had this abiding relevance and power? I believe the answer is found in our text.
{2 Peter 1:20–21} "First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."
This passage teaches that when you read Scripture, what you are reading does not merely come from a man but also from God.
The Bible is the writing of many different men. But it is also far more than that. Yes, men spoke. They spoke with their own language and style.
But Peter mentions two other dimensions of their speaking. Speaking from God, Moved by the Holy Spirit, First, they spoke from God. What they have to say is not merely from their own limited perspective. They are not the origin of the truth they speak; they are the channel. The truth is God's truth. Their meaning is God's meaning.

9inches:
The Bible (written books) and Divine tradition (written traditions)

New Testament:
Christ gave His disciples no specific command to write, but only to teach: "going therefore, teach ye all nations, . . . teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you" (Matthew 28:19-20). "As the Father hath sent me, I also send you" (John 20:21). And in accordance with this, the Church is everywhere presented to us as a living and undying society composed of the teachers and the taught. Christ is in the Church, and is its Head; and He promised that the Holy Spirit should be with it and abide in it. "He will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you" (John 14:26). Hence St. Paul calls the Church "the pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Timothy 3:15; cf. Mark 16:16; Romans 10:17; Acts 15:28).

Tradition:
The same doctrine appears in the writings of the Fathers of every age; thus St. Ignatius (Letter to the Trallians 7) "Keep yourselves from heretics. You will be able to do this if you are not puffed up with pride, and (so) separated from (our) God, Jesus Christ, and from the bishop, and from the precepts of the Apostles. He who is within the altar is clean, he who is without is not clean; that is, he who acts any way without the bishop, the priestly body, and the deacons, is not clean in conscience". And St. Irenæus ("Adv. Haer.", III, ii) says, of heretics, that "not one of them but feels no shame in preaching himself, and thus depraving the rule of faith" (ton tes aletheias kanona); and again (III, iv), "it is not right to seek from others that truth which it is easy to get from the Church, since the Apostles poured into it in fullest measure, as into a rich treasury, all that belongs to the truth, so that whosoever desires may drink thence the draught of life". A little further on, he speaks (V, xx) of the "true and sound preaching of the Church, which offers to the whole world one and the same way of salvation"

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05766b.htm

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 3:19am On Jan 14, 2018

{Acts 5:29–32} But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised Jesus, whom you killed by hanging him on a tree. God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins…
The Gospel Preaching in Acts” here on the Apostle Peter’s sermons in the book of Acts.
The content of these speeches shows the absence of the fear of human rejection, which paralyzed him earlier and caused him to disown Jesus–by saying “I do not know [him]
(Matthew 26:69-75, Mark 14:66-72, Luke 24:54-62, John 18:25-27) The content of these speeches show that Holy Spirit empowered witness to the facts of Jesus’ life, death and resurrection have no substitute, and that the methods and the message are God ordained..
{Acts 2:14–39} But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.…
(Acts 3:11-4:4, Acts 4:8-12, Acts 10:34-43)

9inches:
Where can we find the highlighted teaching? Note the book was written before 70 AD, and we are in 2018, how and where can one get this "speech" since we already have the "letter"?

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 3:07am On Jan 14, 2018

{2 Corinthians 6:14-18} Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers.
{ And yet the Churches a full of unbelievers believers, arguing against the believers in Christ. Jesus said do not be unequally yoked-with unbelievers, And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? Do the Catholic's hold idol's? For you are the temple of the living God.}
For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?
And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God.
As God has said: “I will dwell in them, And walk among them.
I will be their God, And they shall be My people.
"Therefore"
“Come out from among them, And be separate, says the Lord. {Come out from the her, and live for Christ}
Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you.
“I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the Lord Almighty.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 9:57pm On Jan 13, 2018

{2 Corinthians 3:3} clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.
If the Word of God tells us this-then why don't you believe-in the scriptures? The traditions of men on stone have passed away, while the tradition of God He laid upon our hearts mind's and souls..The old testament law states I am circumcised-Christ states circumcised or uncircumcised-what difference is that to Him-when I am in Christ either way...

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 9:39pm On Jan 13, 2018

Interesting bro..
Allow me to try and answer these questions myself-if I am wrong please correct me-from my mistakes.
Sin, {Get down on your knees and pray to the Father you sinners}
God's law-{Obey God and Him only you shall serve}
Righteousness-{Become a born again believer, and know Christ}
Repentance-{I repent forgive me Lord for I have sinned}
Salvation {Sets us free from mans tradition of the world leading to death}
Did they make images and bow to them?{thru shalt not worship statues in Church}
Where they honoring Mary, angels and dead saints. {Honor God}
What was the first Church? {Become born again and join the first Church in Christ}
Was peter called a pope? {I minor confused situation}
What ministry did peter receive? {Never Catholic}
Did the early church had priests? {Pagans}
What is mass? {Mass is both a property of a physical body}
What is the importance of mass?{To keep man under pagan tradition}
Did the apostles refer to Mary as a mediatrix? {Pray to the Father}
Who is a mediatrix? {Mediatrix is one God: and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus}
Who is a mediator? {Mediator is Christ}
What does it take to qualify as a mediatrix or mediator? {Be God}
Was Mary a sinner? {Just like me-she was born to sin}
Was she a child of Adam? {Was the flesh man made of dust}
Was Mary among people Christ came to save? {Like the apostles-she needed a savor-and she became born again..}

solite3:
No catholic have been able to answer these questions?
what were the teachings of the apostles.
What did the teach concerning
Sin
God's law-
Righteousness
Repentance
Salvation
Did they make images and bow to them?
Where they honoring Mary, angels and dead saints.
What was the first Church?
Was peter called a pope?
What ministry did peter receive?
Did the early church had priests?
What is mass?
What is the importance of mass?
Did the apostles refer to Mary as a mediatrix?
Who is a mediatrix?
Who is a mediator?
What does it take to qualify as a mediatrix or mediator?
Was Mary a sinner?
Was she a child of Adam?
Was Mary among people Christ came to save?

Please all catholics in the house are free to answer this questions.
Teach somebody your doctrine.
Go straight to point please.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 8:33pm On Jan 13, 2018*

Both? I can only see one tradition here-the tradition of God..
{2 Thessalonians 2:14-16} To this He called you through our gospel, so that you may share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brothers, stand firm and cling to the traditions we taught you, whether by speech or by letter.
Are you lost about the word speech-when your priest preachers to you, he is doing it in speech. One tradition one gospel, one God, one Lord and one Spirit..How do you find two traditions?
{They preached and they wrote the Word of God, and nothing in it has anything to do with the traditions of men}
{Colossians 2:7-8} rooted and built up in Him, established in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness. See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ.
Is this what you prefer to differ yourself further away from Christ because your Church is about the traditions of men?
{Mark 7:8-9} They worship Me in vain; they teach as doctrine the precepts of men.’ You have disregarded the commandment of God to keep the tradition of men.” He went on to say, “You neatly set aside the commandment of God to maintain your own tradition.…
I do remember when I first met my wife-she had asked me if I was circumcised-she said it's the tradition of the Church.
It's always the same old story people refusing Christ, seem to always go back to tradition of men from the Old Testament commandments.
{Genesis 17:14} Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.
But now those In Christ had been set free from the traditions of men and-He said this>{1 Corinthians 7:18-20} …Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man still uncircumcised when called? He should not be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commandments is what matters. Each one should remain in the situation he was in when he was called.…
We are set free in Christ-we don't need the traditions of men-we need the traditions of God! [quote author=9inches post=64160345][/quote]

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 7:43am On Jan 13, 2018

Let the dead bury their own dead..

okpurukata:
T[b]HREAD CLOSED.

THE LADY IN QUESTION IS ALREADY ATTENDING AND IS HAPPY WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

[/b]

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 7:25am On Jan 13, 2018*

You say I write all over the place-only because you haven't any understanding in the Word of God, To a believer my comments are useful-but my comments to a unbeliever are unknowing,
{ 1 Corinthians 15;1-2} Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, {No added books to the bible} which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you {The argument is really against traditions of men that are not supported by the written word of God}
{2 Thessalonians 2:14-16} To this He called you through our gospel, so that you may share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brothers, stand firm and cling to the traditions we taught you, whether by speech or by letter.
{They preached and they wrote the Word of God, and nothing in it has anything to do with the traditions of men}
Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and God our Father, who by grace has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope,…
If you had read the scriptures, in the first place, and if had knowing Christ-you would know the Catholic Church live by the traditions of men.{Matthew 15:2} Why do the disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
Have you heard-Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. "Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Scripture therefore determines whether tradition is acceptable.
The problem with you-is, you focus on the traditions-you preach the gospel in vain, the tradition of God is-do not make any images above, on earth and under the earth, but the traditions of men made idol's of worship.
{2 Thessalonians 3:6} Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition [paradosis i.e. law or ordinance] which he received of us.

9inches:
You are all over the place with your comments. I have no issue with the verses you quoted above. They are not debatable and in line with Catholic teaching. However, it seems you have issues with 2 Thessalonians 2:15, you chose to believe only a part of it. Am I wrong?

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 3:03am On Jan 13, 2018

Because you prefer to seek to live by the traditions of men, then maybe you should be focusing on these two verses, you don't like my information, haven't you worked it out yet-we all learn of each other, it wouldn't matter how or where I retrieved my information on
scripture, you will always find fault with the Word of God, the bible which is spiritual is never enough!
{Mark 7:8} You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions."Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and you do many things like that.
{Colossians 2:8} See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.
I have never read great faith among the Catholic Church, it's always about how great your Church stands, denying the Word of God-you have used Peter us a stumbling block, using his very own fleshly foundations to build the Church in Rome.
{Titus 1:15-16} To the pure, all things are pure; but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure. Indeed, both their minds and their consciences are defiled. They profess to know God, but they deny Him by their actions. They are detestable, disobedient, and unfit for any good deed.
I don't follow the Catholic Church-reason you are not in line with the Word of God-you worship god's-and like any other cult-claiming to know God, but they deny Him by their actions.

9inches:
You are all over the place, copying and pasting from websites. Most of what you post are not even under contention and has no bearing in this argument. I would think you should know what you are talking about instead of argument of copy and paste.

I quoted 3 verses from the bible which you should have zeroed in on. Please explain the verses and in context.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 11:49pm On Jan 12, 2018

Have we decided to change the topic, couldn't you come up with any of the answers? "Now let's learn about the Catholic church and the various Protestant churches attempt to lure each other into a strange circular argument regarding the doctrinal debate over "Tradition Vs Sola Scriptura" (the bible alone).
The Catholic faction gets Protestants arguing against all traditions rather than just the inventions of men; and more specifically, the inventions of the Catholic Church.
The argument is really against traditions of men that are not supported by the written word of God.
The Catholics will not regard scripture because they are pushing so hard on the point of traditions that they attempt to prove traditions by traditions, or extrabiblical writings, rather than with scripture.
The Protestants won't consider the oral transmission of God's word because they push the written text only. The circle is a dizzying spiral that leads to nowhere fast. Who do you believe?
We should always believe God's own testimony. Why? because He is infallible and True. [Numbers 23:19 ]"God is not a man, that he should lie...."
[Hebrews 6:18] "... it was [and is] impossible for God to lie..."But the Catholic's don't agree..
The apostle Peter had learned this and his words recorded in the bible's book of The Acts of The Apostles 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
The Bible and tradition both teach that our convictions are not to be based upon human wisdom but upon the power of God and His spirit which He gives to those who obey Him!
The problem is not that human (carnal) wisdom is always wrong but that human wisdom is clearly fallible and is not a sufficient foundation for believing anything about God. Hence our doctrinal convictions should not be based upon human wisdom.
The apostle Paul warned against such and we see that he knew this because of the written word of God.
You are like the JW's trying to turn the scriptures around to prove a pointless argument-traditions of men-if I was Jewish-I would keep the tradition of the law and circumcise myself.
{Mark 7:8, 13} You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions."Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and you do many things like that.
{Colossians 2:8} See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.

9inches:
(2 Thessalonians 2:15) "Stand fast and hold firm to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours". Paul must have been talking out of both sides of his mouth, on one side demanding adherence to the written word only, and on the other urging fastidious adherence to both written and oral tradition. What do you think?

Also, (3 John 13-14) " I have much to write you, but I do not want to do so with pen and ink. I hope to see you soon, and we will talk face to face." Why would John emphasize his preference for oral tradition over written tradition in this instance if, as you assert, the scripture is superior to oral tradition?

In the very first letter of Paul to the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 11:2), "I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you." What does he mean by that, if earlier on in the same letter (1 Corinthians 4:6), he seems to be advocating sola scriptura?

Christianity Etc › Re: The Pentecostal Church Verses The Catholic Church. by brocab(op): 11:10pm On Jan 12, 2018

Leave Uben alone-we have spoken before you existed, plus Uben isn't teaching, Uben is making a point..
And plus Uben already knows the stories about Peter, Uben doesn't need to be taught by you-plus as time had past I myself have learned a lot from Uben..

pdozie:
You and Jolliano have tried. There is nothing more to add.

The OP is out to disenfranchise the catholic church and not not to have a good argument.

For the ones that say the church did not emanate from Catholic church or that Peter is not the first bishop (pope), I wonder what they think happened when Christ said

"Peter, on this Rock I will build my church....."

If there was only one church before Luther pulled out, which church was that? Redeem? Winners? Mountain of Fire? Chosen?

Benedictus and Jolliano, you guys have said more than enough.

May almighty God have mercy on us all forgive us our sins and lead us to life everlasting....

Christianity Etc › Re: The Pentecostal Church Verses The Catholic Church. by brocab(op): 9:55pm On Jan 12, 2018*

This is what I like about you Uben-every time you feel some what beating-you come back at me with the insults, is this the Catholic's mentally, if we can't beat them, destroy them.
This isn't a competition-not every one will agree, but denominations of people that carry a name tag, are denominations in buildings-you call yourself a Catholic-and by your own knowledge you believe every other Church is walking in the flesh-why your Church stands with God Himself, this is the flesh talking, if you were spiritually minded-you wouldn't dare to call yourself religious.
I wonder how you feel, if I said I am a believer in Christ-does this make me a denomination of believers that walk in the flesh, without the building, if I was to call myself a Church name, that doesn't belong to Rome, then I am not walking with the apostle Peter, like the Catholic's do.
Then it must prove, I must be walking with Christ, not Peter, like most believers do, believers without a Church name hanging over them..

Ubenedictus:
as usual you enjoy writing long articles to side step an issue.

though out my post I never talked about buildings, I am talking about groups of people, sects called denominations not buildings.

those denominations are as the Bible says a manifestation of the flesh.

as usual you've got your history upside down.

may God help you and free you of your misinformation.

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